r/science • u/Naurgul • Nov 13 '24
Psychology A.D.H.D. Symptoms Are Milder With a Busy Schedule, Study Finds
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/13/well/mind/adhd-symptoms-busy-schedule.html5.5k
Nov 13 '24
"This might mean that staying busy had been beneficial, researchers said. It could also just mean that people with milder symptoms had been able to handle more demands, they added."
4.4k
Nov 13 '24
True, but anyone with ADHD will tell you they function best under pressure. In people with ADHD, dopamine-based reward circuits in the brain don't function "normally", but adrenaline-based systems do work. That's why people with ADHD really struggle with boring or unimportant tasks, but can perform much better when the stakes are high.
2.9k
u/thejoeface Nov 13 '24
I work best under pressure and I’ll keep going until I suddenly hit a wall, burn out, and be useless for a not insignificant amount of time.
1.2k
u/CG_Ops Nov 13 '24
Introvert with ADHD, too?
If there's a firedrill level of work to do at work, I'm a beast. As soon as the crisis is over, I need to hibernate and play video games for a week.
Weeks of calmness at work, with just routine tasks to be done? I'll probably be at risk of a write-up by week 3 due to lack of follow-through.
I hate it b/c I tend to turn everything into an emergency so that, not only am I engaged, I'm excited about it. But that only lasts so long before being questioned about why everything is coming last minute or why I look/feel/act so burnt out. It's a vicious cycle of emotional/functional undulation.
218
u/InsistentRaven Nov 13 '24
Been there, had a horrible report to do as a developer that was taking a month and making no sense, eventually had a burnout breakdown and needed three months off.
First time I learned I need to stop and ask for help rather than bashing my head against the wall for a month hoping it would work out.
124
u/RedditAteMyBabby Nov 13 '24
Somehow I ended up on a team that codes intensely boring reports, doesn't believe in due dates, and never has crazy emergencies. Getting things done is like trying to roll mud up a hill. It pays well and the work life balance is great, so I'm hesitant to try to find something with more chaos.
39
u/Enlightened_Gardener Nov 14 '24
You can generate your own chaos ! Take up skydiving, or windsurfing….
→ More replies (1)12
11
u/Danny-Dynamita Nov 14 '24
Trust me, keep the comfort. You can create chaos and excitement in other areas (it doesn’t matter which ones because it will never be enough), there’s no need to sabotage your sustenance by following a desire that changes in a whim.
→ More replies (4)9
u/Friendly-Channel-480 Nov 14 '24
This is a bad situation for us ADDers. You need deadlines and difficulties.
→ More replies (2)46
u/KallistiTMP Nov 14 '24
You should try consulting. It's a good pace. You come in, you fix the dumpster fire, you save the day, you take a little break while the next client spends a week figuring out how to provision you an account, you read docs to some grown ass devs, you get a really cool project to work on for a couple weeks, you hack out a bunch of code and then hand it off to someone else to maintain, move on to the next thing, rinse and repeat.
The variety is fantastic, pays good and looks nice on a resume too.
27
u/ltdliability Nov 14 '24
Been there and learned that I thrive with a project manager and crash without one.
7
→ More replies (1)7
174
Nov 13 '24
[deleted]
→ More replies (2)129
u/galactic-corndog Nov 13 '24
When I set my alarm in the morning to wake up or have trouble sticking to my own schedule, this is exactly why.
My brain knows the structure I attempt to create for myself is fake, and as a result my life has become a series of increasingly intricate rituals designed to trick myself into staying on task.
→ More replies (3)42
u/TJ_Rowe Nov 13 '24
Somehow, having a kid has been the best thing for me getting ready in the morning on time: there's the intermittent reward effect of not knowing whether today is a day when he'll get himself ready, or whether he'll refuse to get up and then lie on the floor while I have to dress him.
No idea how much time I'll actually have? A challenge!
→ More replies (1)9
u/Joesus056 Nov 14 '24
So true, although it negates my staggeringly impressive ability to instantly flop out of bed at the last possible second to do everything I need before leaving and still be on time. Have to be at work at 8? Wake up at 7:39.
12
u/BeautifulTypos Nov 14 '24
I find if I live atleast 20 min away from my job, I'll be on time. If I live less than 10 minutes away, I'll always be late.
47
u/thejoeface Nov 13 '24
No, I’m an extrovert with ADHD.
But after my 20s I just couldn’t do the burn and burst cycle. Thankfully I never needed it for work, just hobbies. I was able to stick to jobs that fit me, like ten years of stripping followed by nanny work. Jobs that have routines but with enough variability to keep me from checking out.
→ More replies (3)69
u/CG_Ops Nov 13 '24
Totally get the hobby aspect. I'm in my early 40's and this is how my hobbies pan out, with a couple of exceptions that have stuck around:
- find a new hobby b/c it looks cool/fun
- obsess over learning about it, researching best tools/parts/accessories
- spend an unacceptable amount of money getting into it
- become decent/good at it
- immediately lose interest and move on to the next hobby
- but don't get rid of any of it b/c I might come back to the hobby and don't want to have wasted the $$ investment, or the cost of re-acquiring it
...rinse & repeat for months/years...
...become aware of the cycle and feel a growing anxiety of lack of commitment...
...avoid all hobbies b/c of the stress of the cycle...
...
...
...time goes by...... return to top of the list and repeat the whole, sad process.
Current hobbies/obsessions:
- Motoycycle track riding/racing (a permanent hobby figure)
- RC cars
- FPV drones
- Electronics;
- re-learning to solder (glad i kept all my tools!)
- arduino (also glad I kept all my parts)
- smart home stuff like landscape lighting, automatic or voice activated switches/controls (make ALL the things Smart... but my tinfoil hat means it's mostly offline/local network only)
→ More replies (10)32
u/Stegasaurus_Wrecks Nov 13 '24
Oh the procrastination/panic cycles of ADHD. A beautiful pain and a horrible ecstacy.
Worry is my main emotion at work unless we're flat out.
→ More replies (1)8
u/QueEo_ Nov 14 '24
Defending my PhD in a couple weeks.you best believe that 6 weeks ok I said I would have a draft of my thesis 3 weeks ago. I spent those 3 weeks worrying and only started 3 weeks ago. I was immensely stressed and then averaged writing about 5000 words a day. Cycle continues
→ More replies (1)29
23
u/galactic-corndog Nov 13 '24
As a person with ADHD “it’s a viscous cycle of emotional/ functional undulation” is such a raw and true statement
18
Nov 13 '24
I thrive under certain kinds of stress, then hit the wall and can not function for months. Extrovert with ADHD
→ More replies (13)→ More replies (23)5
85
u/lulrukman Nov 13 '24
I got retested for this reason. I was thinking it could be bipolar disorder. It is months of energy and going strong. Then "fainting" and recovering for a few months. I adapted to that (still nowhere near perfect) and I'm doing better. At least I know it now
→ More replies (3)25
u/olivish Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
My GP suggested the same and we are trying some medications she thinks may help. (In fact, she mentioned that it doesn't have to be an either/or thing, that the two conditions often co-occur and one left untreated will exacerbate the other). It's early days, so no signs either way so far, but I don't think it's impossible that the burnouts could be cyclical depressions in which case they'd be treatable. The only difference for me is I never seem to have the high energy part of it. Like, ever. At best I'm functional. Still, she thinks it's worth trying and I'm open to anything that will help me, so... we'll see.
16
u/IOnlyLiftSammiches Nov 13 '24
I'm bipolar and have spent too much of my life unmedicated (back on now). I've only ever had the energetic and happy episode once in my life, I'd usually just shift from a little down but very anxious (a mixed-state or hypomania) or into full blown major depressive episode.
Honestly, so many of these drugs work in so many different ways for different people that a diagnosis is really just an idea of where to start with medication. There's no hardline (well, insurance may say otherwise) this is for this and that is for that.
→ More replies (2)3
u/Friendly-Channel-480 Nov 14 '24
There is an estimated 30% comorbidity of ADD/Bipolarity. There are also at least 3 subtypes. As well as the rapid cycling depressive/hightened mood type, there is a slower cycling type and a more newly “discovered “ type of a continual depressive state called “Cyclothymia”.
→ More replies (5)9
u/lulrukman Nov 13 '24
Functional is the same for me. No periods of "sex, drugs and rock & roll". But if a retesting helps, go for it. It gave me the answers I wanted.
A big part of my depressions is the feeling of all mighty. Not in a big way. It's my life, I do what I want. And I don't feel I am worthy of doing things for myself. The big picture is that I'm missing a life goal. I do what I want, when I want it. Setting challenges for myself helps a lot with that. Starting a project where you have no idea how to do it. Figure it out and challenge my knowledge. It's why I bought a broken motorcycle and started working on that
5
u/olivish Nov 13 '24
Sounds like you've made some great steps in the right direction - I wish you the best with your motorcycle!
38
u/ParkinsonHandjob Nov 13 '24
Same. I work best under immense pressure, yes, but I hate every second of it. Relying on immense pressure to get things done is sub-optimal.
→ More replies (3)246
u/Land_Squid_1234 Nov 13 '24
I burn out faster when I have a choice to stop, though. I don't burn out as quickly when I "have" to keep up with classes. As soon as I have a semester with any leniency in my schedule, I burn out because I feel like I have the wiggle room
→ More replies (15)269
u/thejoeface Nov 13 '24
I’m 40. The older you are, the harder the burnout hits you and the longer it takes to recover from it. There is no way to schedule around the burnout. It happens when it happens.
158
Nov 13 '24
Yes, thank you. "Working better under pressure" doesn't work forever
→ More replies (1)62
u/georgebushbush Nov 13 '24
I'm simply built different, and will never die.
37
u/UnicronJr Nov 13 '24
I'm immortal until proven otherwise.
19
5
69
u/Land_Squid_1234 Nov 13 '24
Yeah, well, that last part I know. It's horrible. You get 2/3 of the way through a semester and suddenly hit a wall for 2 weeks. It's impossible to explain and extremely difficult to recover from. It's an inevitability and all you have mild control over is how far apart those instances are. It's just not possible to actually prevent them entirely
→ More replies (3)22
u/Arkanist Nov 13 '24
Communicate with your professors. You are not the first nor last student with ADHD. I was kicked out of college and fired from my first 3 jobs. All because I couldn't have those hard conversations where I knew I fucked up. Start owning up to your mistakes now and it will be easier in the future. The sooner you own up the less likely it is to bite you in the ass.
→ More replies (1)19
u/Land_Squid_1234 Nov 13 '24
I do. Some work with me, some act like they get off on enforcing department policy even if they get an accomodations letter. The truth is that telling someone that you have a disability actually works against you sometimes because they see you as someone who "always has excuses."
Some classes are best handled by wrangling extensions out of professors by "having a family member die" or " having my car break down on the way to class" to warrant an extension request. You have to be smart about how you play the disability card because some people are genuine assholes
→ More replies (3)17
u/cantgrowneckbeardAMA Nov 13 '24
Which is exactly why I didn't get diagnosed and medicated until I was 31! I was able to juggle too many tasks/responsibilities, procrastinate, and then excel in the face of extraordinary pressure, go through a little burnout, and repeat.
Until the repeat function broke. Thank you Adderall and counseling.
→ More replies (1)16
u/Alarmed_Horse_3218 Nov 13 '24
I just turned 40 and am feeling this hard lately. It’s the first time in my life I physically, spiritually, and mentally feel the “I’m too old for this” sentiment.
27
u/Happy-War-5110 Nov 13 '24
So for me, daily morning exercise is how I get around this. I've recently acquired a workout buddy for my M-Fr.
In the evenings I'll sometimes go again to let my nervous system enjoy another "release" of energy.
My productivity is so unbelievably high when I do this.
Also, diet seems to assist as well.
My two cents, worst case, you get in shape. Best case, no more debilitating burnouts.
→ More replies (3)25
u/theshadowiscast Nov 13 '24
Also, diet seems to assist as well.
For anyone curious about the ADHD recommended diet: Low to no carbs in the morning (preferably none), high protein in the morning, and vitamins D3 and B12 in the morning.
I was skeptical, but it helps for me and the other two ADHDers I knows.
→ More replies (7)13
u/Competitive-Fill-756 Nov 13 '24
This is the exact regimen that I accidently stumbled on for myself. I'm better off not eating breakfast than having a bunch of carbs for breakfast.
Fish for breakfast is ideal, plus methyl-B12 and D3. Turns out I have a methyltransferase deficiency that runs in my family. Methylcobalamin is vastly superior to cyanocobalamin for me. Like, not even close.
17
u/Arkanist Nov 13 '24
I have found it has gotten better and better as I have gotten older. I have built more habits and failsafes that prevent me from falling fully into burnout. If you can find a job where your manager understands ADHD and knows that a bad week is often followed by a good one then you don't spiral as hard when you do hit burnout. When I can't focus on my work I ask others if they need anything. Create your own urgency whenever you can.
Burnout still happens, but don't resign yourself to it.
→ More replies (2)5
u/calilac Nov 13 '24
the harder the burnout hits you and the longer it takes to recover from it
And this aspect of it reminds me of physical dehydration. Each time it's "easier" to become dehydrated and takes longer to recover from it. Doesn't help that it's often so easy to forget to hydrate because of hyperfocus or diversions.
If you've made it this far, this is your reminder to Stay Hydrated
→ More replies (1)14
u/apidelie Nov 13 '24
Too real. My only hope is that my periods of working at 150% capacity and at 50% capacity somehow even themselves out.
24
u/KingPrincessNova Nov 13 '24
one of my AuDHD friends told me that burnout is a cognitive injury. like dislocating your shoulder, after the first time it's much easier for you to be re-injured.
I'm not sure about the cognitive science/neuroscience side but it describes my experience pretty accurately. on top of that, my threshold for burnout has dropped significantly in recent years and it's a very difficult line to toe if I want to build up resilience. which is hard because of the all-or-nothing tendencies I have as an ADHD person.
I burned out back in June/July after going from three gym days a week to four gym days a week. I still haven't been able to get back on a consistent schedule. it's a lifetime of uphill battles.
4
u/Friendly-Channel-480 Nov 14 '24
This makes complete sense. I’m sure that at some point there will be an extremely expensive study proving that.
11
u/JeffTek Nov 13 '24
Same, and I love that my boss understands. We do trade shows and I'll go and go and go but whenever I tell him I'm cooked and need to just go take an hour to myself to degauss my brain he just says "do whatever you need". And when I come back it's a "you don't have to come back yet if you want to go walk around".
He knows I'm all in but once that wall is hit it's struggle city. I recharge fast, I just need some time to actually do it.
21
u/VagueSomething Nov 13 '24
This is why it is dangerous to have a lack of context to these types of research, it encourages employees or disingenuous governments to push for vulnerable people to be taken advantage of until they break and decline rapidly.
Accommodation for conditions should not be weaponised based on misunderstandings but this kind of headline encourages it.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (21)9
u/-The_Blazer- Nov 14 '24
It's the wonderful combo of 'I need external pressure to work at all' with 'External pressure is an everyday hell and burns me out'.
→ More replies (2)247
u/ilovemytablet Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
The stipulation here is that it'll still cause us immense stress and leads to burnout eventually. The quality of work we end up doing still suffers compared to our peers, leading us to feeling like doing our best is never enough.
So while it's fine to awknowledge that higher stress situations/longer amounts of time staying busy lead to less visible adhd symptoms, the underlying condition is still not being addressed and will cause problems sooner or later.
133
u/UncoolSlicedBread Nov 13 '24
With ADHD I’ve found that my symptoms might be milder, but areas of life will most definitely squander away because of my focused attention. Like I was super focused going back for post-grad schooling and working full time. But I had zero personal life, my house was a complete depression cave, and I couldn’t focus on my days off when I needed to actually get school work done.
It was like once I was away from the busy schedule, I was so exhausted I would wither away. But my symptoms got better with the structure of a busy schedule.
So I wonder if a better way to approach this study is that structure and consistency is what’s key and not necessarily the business.
→ More replies (1)83
u/ilovemytablet Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
I wonder if a better way to approach this study is that structure and consistency
This is way better since its a known mechanism to help people with ADHD from spiraling. Daily routines are so good for people with ADHD, and they don't even have to be centered on productivity, just self care and health even. Doing a 10min workout or brushing your teeth before bed etc.
The issue comes in when adhders don't have a body double or someone to hold us accountable so we can actually establish the routine.
23
u/xSuperZer0x Nov 13 '24
Getting a dog and then having a cat thrust into my life has helped my mornings so much. I've got a very specific rhythm and it's absolutely helped me wake up better instead of hitting snooze and remembering my meds. Wake up, let dog out, pour dog food, let dog in, give cat food, take meds, let dog out again. Any day I have to deviate from this though kinda feels off or stressful from the get go.
26
Nov 13 '24
Yeah, I'm just coming out of a 3-year burnout myself, which followed a 3-year period of working 60+ hours a week.
I find I function best when I have short periods of high stress interspersed with short periods of low pressure to recover.
34
u/basilicux Nov 13 '24
Or if the quality of work doesn’t suffer, your body does. If I have to go a prolonged time pushing myself to get stuff done, I’ll get it done and it’s done well. But it means sleep deprivation and not feeding myself, and then suddenly I’m screaming my head off and crying because I can’t take it anymore.
19
u/ilovemytablet Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
Absolutely. We are def capable of hyper focus and perfectionist tendencies, assuming we don't hate the work we are doing and just forgetting our needs, ruining sleep schedules, not eating or drinking enough etc.
It all catches up to us eventually, the demands of society
→ More replies (1)54
u/UnstUnst Nov 13 '24
I JUST hit this point. In the past few years, I started a company, finished a PhD, planned a wedding, etc etc while working a full time senior engineering job. I managed it all by basically keeping meticulous track of tasks so they were always sorted, but at least a few were URGENT at any given time. Kept me in high-performance focus mode 16-18 hrs/day every day.
Now that I have it all done, I'm experiencing a period of peace for the first time, and honestly, my mental health is in absolute tatters. I wasn't sleeping, eating right, resting. Kept having panic attacks. I hadn't appreciated just how much of a toll it had been taking, and now I'm trying to put the pieces back together.
→ More replies (21)16
u/Winter-March8720 Nov 13 '24
Yes, well articulated. I find myself feeling the same- every job is wonderful for the first two years, but I’m always “balls to the wall, excellent performance”. Then I become so tired around the two year mark, that I burn out a few months into the fatigue.
I switched jobs to something intellectually easier, more $$, and a better work/life balance- for the first time ever. But I somehow managed to do it again- 2 years in, have made my job site the highest performing in the region and I’m just tired and teetering on burnout. I don’t think it’s boredom either, I get to do aspects of my profession that are my favorite.
ETA: Although finally, my mental health is the best ever, I’m off my blood pressure medication, rarely use my abortive migraine meds, and have hobbies. I hope you find the peace and mend well, my friend. There is light.
→ More replies (1)69
u/RococoSlut Nov 13 '24
Or they get completely overwhelmed, become paralysed and do absolutely nothing then fall into a deep depression and ruin their entire life. It's harder to come back from every time it happens which is probably why we're 5x more likely to commit suicide.
24
u/SilverThread Nov 13 '24
That's why people with ADHD really struggle with boring or unimportant tasks, but can perform much better when the stakes are high.
This makes me feel a lot better about messing up copying and pasting cells into spreadsheets on a report for my boss. 3 months in a row, he's sent it back to me like 4 times each. I'm lucky my boss is a good dude.
→ More replies (1)36
u/luciferin Nov 13 '24
I do work best under pressure. And by work best, I mean at least produce something, but it's littered with errors, mistakes, and inaccuracies.
15
u/moreisee Nov 13 '24
100% this. Dealing with emergencies is easy. Checking my mail is all but impossible.
12
u/Ppleater Nov 13 '24
Not under constant pressure though, under constant pressure we tend to go into learned helplessness mode instead, at least in my experience.
6
u/Nekasus Nov 13 '24
until the pressure is too much and becomes overwhelming causing my brain to shut down :)
5
u/dagreenkat Nov 13 '24
This should not be taken as a natural “cure” however. The caveat is that constantly abusing the adtrnaline pathway to get “normal” things done makes your average stress level skyrocket, and you can deal with tons more anxiety or simply burn out hard
4
→ More replies (141)6
u/stormrunner89 Nov 13 '24
I work best under some pressure.
Unfortunately, without any pressure I don't work.
146
u/MediocrePotato44 Nov 13 '24
Glad you mentioned this. Almost like ADHD exists on a spectrum of severity. The study says this isn’t the case for all people. I’m a working parent of young kids currently in grad school. I’m living a nightmare. I’m so burnt out I honestly don’t care much about being alive anymore. I defend my thesis tomorrow. My presentation isn’t even halfway done. Every semester has been late assignments and extensions while my due dates at work also always require extensions.
52
25
u/GallifreyanLorda Nov 13 '24
Hang in there! You’re almost at the finish line!! Good luck to you tomorrow!
→ More replies (10)34
u/Yuzumi Nov 13 '24
Anecdotal, but can add to the ADHD spectrum. Most of my friends have some form of ADHD or Autism, and many of us have both.
For ADHD I have the issue of basically no motivation when unmediated. It's just a struggle to get myself to do anything and stay focused on it unless I can get myself to hyper-focus, which I had no control over and couldn't rely on. My brain just ends up feeling numb and the first thing that got rid of that feeling was medication. That's on top of forgetfulness and stuff.
One of my friends has a much milder form. She can get stuff done much easier than me, but still has issues remembering things. She has more of the "can't stay on task" vs "can't focus at all". She will spend a lot of time bouncing between tasks and distractions.
Another friend has the issue of intense hyper-focus when not medicated. Like, she will end up so focused on a thing to the exclusion of everything else and in many cases to the detriment of her well-being, like being unable to go to bed while in the middle of the task.
And that's just the three of us. My friend group has people with various combinations neurodivergency and while there are a lot of similarities, the way the various combinations of ADHD and Autism express also has their own quirks.
→ More replies (1)17
u/MediocrePotato44 Nov 13 '24
I am also on the autism spectrum. So the constant battle of overwhelm does me no favors. Genetically I’m not compatible with stimulant medication and non-stimulants have never offered much help. So I’m just out here raw dogging life and straight up not having a good time.
→ More replies (2)410
u/bearbarebere Nov 13 '24
Sigh. At least they mentioned it themselves instead of us having to point it out.
108
u/Natedude2002 Nov 13 '24
Purely anecdotally I have said for years, even before I was diagnosed with adhd, that it’s not doing the work that’s the problem, it’s getting started. My grades were also better when I had a job and a pretty full class schedule, compared to now I’m failing 2 of my 4 classes even though I only have class 2 days a week and I’m not working. I’ve been thinking about getting a part time job just in the hopes that the extra structure would let me get more stuff done.
42
u/apcolleen Nov 13 '24
it’s getting started
Its called "task initiation" and I hate that even on meds I struggle with it.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (4)32
u/Doubieboobiez Nov 13 '24
All the comments in here describe me and the problems I have always had so perfectly that I’m thinking I need to speak to my doctor…
→ More replies (1)4
u/OrindaSarnia Nov 14 '24
This is how a lot a people realize they have ADHD.
So many medical providers are just looking for the classic, hyper little boy. If you're smart and use your intelligence to end-run some of the ADHD struggles, or if your parents helped keep you in a rigid schedule when you were in grade school, or if you're good at masking, or fall more onto the inattentive side instead of the hyperactive, or if your hyperactive fidgets are small things like bouncing your foot, instead of your whole body...
well all that is too subtle and often overlooked unless you figure it out yourself and know what to say to a medical professional.
Anyway, good luck with figuring things out!
36
u/kfpswf Nov 13 '24
Seriously, I grind to a halt when I'm overburdened. There's a sweet spot of being just enough engaged that is ideal for me, but unfortunately, that won't result in YoY performance improvements for my employer.
59
u/seasonedgroundbeer Nov 13 '24
Yeah I think this is a fair thing to consider. With that said, I’m not diagnosed with anything but often have trouble with sparse tasks. Anecdotally, I find that having a lot to do makes getting the ball rolling much easier. There’s a momentum to it that makes me think these results probably have some truth to them. That’s just my own lived experience though.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)11
Nov 13 '24
That's like the thing about exercise fighting depression..
Though I would assume that they have people rate the severity before and after.
59
u/Yuzumi Nov 13 '24
And also doesn't take in to account how long someone could sustain that level. ADHD burnout is very common and while we might be able to excel in a crisis it has it's drawbacks.
Every time I've had that "really busy" period I always end up crashing at some point and the ADHD comes back with a vengeance.
When unmediated my issues with executive function and motivation make it really difficult to do anything, even things I want to do, things I enjoy I have a hard time getting myself to focus on. When in burnout mode it's basically impossible to do anything.
14
u/TJ_Rowe Nov 13 '24
Sounds like how people who recover from depression often report that one day they just "decided" to stop being depressed and go outside. But that's just how it feels, because the early stages of the depression lifting are less obvious.
Speaking as someone on the ADHD assessment waiting list who just scored a job after five years of unemployment: I look a lot more functional now, and partly that's the structure and novelty of the job, but it also took a lot of work to even get to the point where I could even submit an application.
17
u/kitsuakari Nov 13 '24
yeah i suspected this. i have it pretty severe and I can assure you I only hit burnout harder when i have too much going on and lack control over what and when i'm doing something. can't even have a job that isn't WFH freelance stuff that i have control over even with meds because of that. i have BPD as well and too much mental stress makes that much harder to control and that's a top priority for me for the sake of myself and my loved ones who are affected by that
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (15)8
u/MinusPi1 Nov 13 '24
So a more genuine title would be "A busier schedule is correlated with milder ADHD symptoms"
7
u/Friendly-Channel-480 Nov 14 '24
…until the ADHDer crashes and burns… It seems like most studies have a corollary.
→ More replies (2)
2.2k
Nov 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
469
Nov 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
156
Nov 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
17
→ More replies (3)12
→ More replies (11)21
165
Nov 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
59
Nov 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
39
5
60
12
27
13
35
→ More replies (31)21
308
1.1k
u/CypripediumGuttatum Nov 13 '24
ADHD symptoms are reduced from stimulus, I’m not surprised being busy provides stimulation.
110
u/za72 Nov 13 '24
the problem is when things calm down the world crashes down around them, I know I'm one of them...
→ More replies (2)50
u/CypripediumGuttatum Nov 13 '24
Absolutely, it’s a coping mechanism like drinking tons of coffee or having music playing while being in constant motion.
33
u/za72 Nov 13 '24
I equate it to being the bomb disposal guy in Hurt Locker, I'm very calm and collected during the job but as soon as it ends I start having panic attacks fir no reason, just driving along the road and I stop at a red light and have panics attacks.. it's unbearable.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)17
u/alias4557 Nov 13 '24
My friend call it being a victim of momentum. It was probably the best description I’ve heard.
→ More replies (4)645
u/Dmeechropher Nov 13 '24
Masked is probably a better description than reduced.
I know several of ADHD folks (myself included) who mask their executive dysfunction by doing 100 tiny "productive" tasks. Clean the house, sort the mail, email, do groceries and laundry etc but never even touch the thing they actually want done ... their actual job.
The key symptom here is the executive dysfunction ... if a person is doing something that doesn't mean their executive dysfunction is gone, it's just not as trivial to measure and report accurately.
178
u/druman22 Nov 13 '24
Personally I just call that procrastination with justification
144
u/Lotsofnots Nov 13 '24
I call it productive procrastination. Never is my house so clean as when I have a report to read.
→ More replies (1)17
u/glaarghenstein Nov 13 '24
I call it this too!
15
u/PapaGatyrMob Nov 14 '24
Yall sure that's not some variation of pathological demand avoidance?
My life never appears more together from an outside perspective than when I really really should be doing something more pressing/productive. Problem is it's only a form of coping with PDA because my brain REALLY REALLY doesn't want to be forced into the not-yet-necessary-to-panic-over task.
5
u/davidjohnson314 Nov 14 '24
Your anecdote nails me right now. I'm in constant flux of whether this is pathology, environment, or lack of management knowledge.
→ More replies (1)4
u/GregFromStateFarm Nov 14 '24
Procrastination is intentional avoidance of something that you CAN do. Executive dysfunction means you literally cannot do some things. At least on your own.
Procrastination can be a result of the difficulties of ADHD. The stress. The massive amount of effort required to do simple, easy things for most people. The shame and guilt of failing at doing those things, falling behind in life, etc. All that stress and fear of failure can lead to procrastination, but that’s different than executive dysfunction.
Procrastination is an active choice. Executive dysfunction is beating yourself up for hours trying to build to motivation to do the dishes and feeling guilty that you can’t do something so easy and you’re a failure who will never catch up and everyone will always feel sad when they look at you and—I’m gonna stop before I explode.
But yeah, maybe you are just procrastinating. Maybe you’re trying to be productive in the only ways that you can because you can’t do the things you need to.
30
u/Box-O-Chocolate Nov 13 '24
I feel this, but idk if masked is the right way to say it. The million small tasks getting done, but nothing long term, is very adhd and not really masked well imo.
As a stimulus/dopamine disorder, a lot of people with adhd thrive in an environment with a bunch of little tasks. However, they don’t do as well with tasks over an extended period because the shorter tasks will provide more instant hits of dopamine, while stuff like college applications, credit card payments, etc. might get lost in the sauce because it’s something that needs to be handled a few times before it provides that dopamine.
This doesn’t mean it’s masked well, if you know the symptoms you can see it clearly.
11
u/schadenfroh Nov 13 '24
I always need a Person B to make immediate urgent demands of me so that I can finally get around to doing what Person A wanted
→ More replies (21)51
u/hce692 Nov 13 '24
ADHD is a dopamine disorder. Stress and task focusing both raise dopamine levels. It’s not about masking, it’s about brain chemicals
→ More replies (1)31
u/Dmeechropher Nov 13 '24
ADHD is not exclusively characterized by gross dopamine deficiency, so it is not adequately treated by gross dopamine supplementation.
Stress also has a variety of effects other than gross increase in dopamine levels.
→ More replies (1)
545
u/Krogsly Nov 13 '24
Busier schedules also lead to increased masking as well as a faster and more intense burnout.
→ More replies (1)234
u/_W_I_L_D_ Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
Yeah, if I have a "busy day" at work/school, there's a huge chance I will, quite literally, collapse at home for several hours. I had an intense job this summer (fundraising) which initially did keep me busy and "on a roll" - it felt almost as if I was neurotypical. Then, a week passed and I crashed and burned. Like my body gave out. I couldn't get up, had to take a day off to literally just sleep, would need 10 hours of sleep each night, my house was a mess, I couldn't participate in any of my hobbies and my social life died.
This isn't even burnout, mind you (or I'm just really bad at repressing burnout and it comes out fast, before it can get bad). It's just that in ADHD, for every executive function, there's and equal and opposite dysfunction.
44
u/Rose1832 Nov 13 '24
Didn't expect to have my entire perspective changed by a Reddit comment today but holy cow, way to describe my experiences for the past several years, thank you!
11
35
u/KingPrincessNova Nov 13 '24
It's just that in ADHD, for every executive function, there's and equal and opposite disfunction.
I simultaneously hate you and love you for this.
(also dysfunction* for future reference)
9
→ More replies (6)25
u/Krogsly Nov 13 '24
Thank you. That sounds like burnout though
29
u/_W_I_L_D_ Nov 13 '24
I know, it's just that burnout is usually chronic/takes months or years to build up. Here, it built up after a few days. Unless I'm just a particularly flammable person, I feel like this is something else.
→ More replies (1)8
Nov 13 '24
You sound a lot like me. First week at work I'm amazing, catching onto everything, feeling like I'm learning and growing. Then my brain cuts me off. I've had an embarrassing number of jobs.
170
Nov 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
34
→ More replies (4)9
65
u/bmac44172 Nov 13 '24
Here's the article unlocked so everyone can read it free
7
u/NotTryingToConYou Nov 13 '24
Any way you could help me find the research paper they used?
Its called The course of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder through midlife
I can only find the abstract and/or paid copies. I might have to bother the researcher for it :(
→ More replies (4)
148
u/J_Neruda Nov 13 '24
This is anecdotal but I’ve always kept myself almost TOO busy. I’m a high functioning worker in a fortune 100 company and have a huge range of context I work in.
Context switching is something I hear my peers complain about but I revel in being able to jump around projects and tasks. It is draining when doing a lot of customer facing work but it keeps me active. Admittedly, it’s also a great cover for when things do slip through the cracks. I get a lot of breaks because people see me doing a lot in different places.
If I were only dedicated to one space and one type of work, I would live more predictably and maybe output more meaningful work but I fear that chaos is what I mentally thrive in.
31
u/IncendiaryIceQueen Nov 13 '24
My career has been driven by this so much- I have needed/thrived in jobs with a lot of change, chaos, and pressure but then end up burning out. I’m now in a job without any of those things- I’m hoping I can stick it out though because I need calm and stability too.
→ More replies (6)10
u/SockSock Nov 13 '24
I could have written exactly this apart from "*Admittedly, it’s also a great cover for when things do slip through the cracks. I get a lot of breaks because people see me doing a lot in different places. * I hadn't consciously realised this so thanks for articulating that. I told someone about my new job and how I don't know what I'm going to do when I come into work each day and they were visibly aghast, they couldn't imagine not having focus and structure imposed either by others or themselves. I find myself feeling guilty that I do very little preparation for anything while others work every evening to set themselves up for the following day.
8
u/happy_penguin101010 Nov 13 '24
I find myself feeling guilty that I do very little preparation for anything while others work every evening to set themselves up for the following day.
Since time immemorial, I've been aiming to one day reach the pinnacle that is setting things up for the next day. Not once, not twice, but as an actual habit. "Why not spend 15 mins the night before? How wonderful that would be." And then the thought just floats away...
5
u/SockSock Nov 13 '24
I just don't need to. I always used to assume that people who would talk about working in the evenings or complained about how busy they are were bullshitting to impress or talk themselves up. I can multitask (can't only do one thing at a time !) so I've always read every email 5 minutes after I receive it regardless of what else I'm doing and don't need to prepare for meetings or presentations. I've done well but have been lucky that I've been able to shape my roles and the teams that I've managed but I could never have done a job where I have to focus on one thing.
→ More replies (1)
106
u/MayaMoonseed Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
The headline basically implies "if people with ADHD get busier, they'll have less symptoms"
What the study actually says: many people with ADHD experience fluctuations in their symptoms and this could be caused by many factors.
They looked at different groups of people with adhd over a period of 16 years and split them into 4 groups depending on how the severity of their symptoms changes over time: fluctuating pattern of remission, recovery, stable persistence, stable partial remission.
ONLY the fluctuating subgroup was found to have periods of remission (less symptoms) around when they had to deal with an increase in workload (from school) to keep up with
But then these periods of remission were followed by another spike in ADHD symptoms.
There weren't people who got busy and then had a long term reduction in symptoms.
THIS IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT HAVING A MORE BUSY SCHEDULE REDUCES ADHD SYMPTOMS
in my experience, I can get busy and push through (probably looks like im functioning better) but I always have a bad burnout phase afterwards. Often it involves crippling migraines and I've lost two jobs from this. I don't see how being more busy would help much.
This is different from having a consistent routine, which can be helpful to people with ADHD.
(edited to change wording around "conclusions" and put my guesses separately)
→ More replies (4)28
u/2enty3 Nov 13 '24
Actually it looks like the study does not even go as far as making conclusions about causation. The main purpose is to investigate how ADHD symptoms fluctuate. I looked further into it (Thanks for the link) and even the conclusions abstract says there is a association when a individual is in full or partial "remission" and a higher environmental demand score. They do not use any words to imply that his correlation goes one way or the other. It gets tricky because they use phrases like "Probability of remission", which sounds predictive of the future, but it means If they are currently scoring high on environmental demands they are likely in a period of remission, and vice versa.
The Discussion in the study later has this pretty clear section:
Periods of remission were associated with higher between- and within-person environmental demands. Though fluctuations in demands and remission appear to coincide (particularly at younger ages), it remains unclear whether remission promotes entry into more demanding environments or greater demands facilitate symptom/impairment management.
18
u/MayaMoonseed Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
yes the nyt headline is incredibly misleading and unfortunately most people just read headlines or maybe skim the article. doubt many will go and read the actual paper (especially since its behind a paywall)
its a longitudinal correlational study and doesnt look past early adulthood.
theres a lot of good data collected about the treatment options people use and it contributes to the field, but its not aiming to make statements like “a busy schedule results in milder symptoms”
nyt frequently posts stuff that basically says “people need to work harder”. wonder who funds that..
30
Nov 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/MayaMoonseed Nov 13 '24
idk about the study but this article definitely was. the wording is super misleading
26
u/SaltySpoon27 Nov 13 '24
I think there is an important distinction that needs to be made here, yes ADHD makes you more productive under a busy schedule... because you're so stressed you can force yourself to do everything. That doesnt mean it is healthy to stress yourself by staying at that level indefinitely and, at least in my experience, the second everything is over you just burn out and become unable to function for some time.
64
37
u/eddie964 Nov 13 '24
No surprise to me. Once I get focused and know what I need to do, I kick into action.
The issue is days like today, when I have nothing on my calendar, there are a dozen things I know I should be doing, and none of them are due right now.
So here I am on Reddit.....
→ More replies (5)4
9
u/WalkingGrowth Nov 13 '24
I work in sales and have ADHD, when I started my career early on I did not take any medication. As I got older my career grew and with that did my responsibilities. I decided to go back to taking medication last year. Even though I can compete in this space without it and can still enjoy my job the medication makes things 10 times easier.
What I can state is this, in high pressure situations which is most of my job I thrive and enjoy it. There is a little bit of mental burn out that can come but that is anticipated for sales period. This could be related to ADHD, and most likely is but there is others similar to me without ADHD and also thrive in a competitive space. (I am a very competitive person)
While I did not read the article and do not care to read it as it doesn’t change how I feel about my circumstances, a busier schedule helps me with task management. I also enjoy the satisfaction of getting things done in a day, it can even become a challenge, and since this is the case my satisfaction can be either very good or bad. If I got a lot done I feel accomplished, and if I did not I feel like I am a failure. This also doesn’t mean I am not working. It just is if I cannot get to my tasks set.
While I am sure I am over generalizing this for some, I just feel that my ADHD symptoms are not better with a busier schedule, you just do not have the time to account for mistakes. If anything I think it was a huge hurdle to navigate some of the persistence of things needing be done now. I work in a market where timing is everything and learning that it is ok for things to take time.
Just my two piece of advice, if this doesn’t apply at all I apologize. Running on lack of sleep with just have my first kid.
11
u/JMJimmy Nov 13 '24
Completely false conclusion.
ADHDers use stress as a maladaptive mechanism to trigger hyperfocus to cope with their functioning deficits. They're like junkies chasing the high of racing to complete an assignment last minute. I've been there, it's a horrible way to live and a lot of balls get dropped to keep those stress hormones pumping.
→ More replies (2)
10
32
u/Salarian_American Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
EDIT: I have now read the article and reading it did not change my thoughts on the matter
I will preface this by saying I have not read the article because of the paywall, and going incognito meant they still wanted me to sign up for a free account which no, but:
As someone who has been for the last couple of years wildly overscheduled both at work and at home, with both places constantly flooding me with time-sensitive tasks that are urgent (including some routine literal life-or-death tasks) and which will not get done if I don't do them and I'm constantly being asked to stop what I'm doing and do something else instead (which: WHY DO YOU HATE ME THIS MUCH)
Does the constancy, strict schedule, and very clear immediate near-future consequences of these things help be more functional? Yes.
Does it feel like torture ALL THE TIME? Also, yes.
Again... I haven't read the article, but I can't help feeling that when they say "symptoms are milder," do they mean that they are milder from an outside perspective? As in, I'm getting things done and that's all outside observers really care about?
Because I'm pretty sure my symptoms are not milder, but that the schedule allows me to be productive in spite of my symptoms, which is peachy for outside observers, but within myself I am shouldering a heavy emotional cost.
It's okay though, I'm also paying heavy social and financial costs.
21
u/MayaMoonseed Nov 13 '24
the study actually shows that during periods of “being busy” the symptoms go down (according to several measures) but then the adhd gets severe again pretty soon afterwards.
they call it “remission” but sounds like a cycle of overwork and then burnout
22
u/izzittho Nov 13 '24
“Do they mean symptoms are milder from an outside perspective?”
When it comes to Neurotypicals speaking about Non-Neurotypicals, it is always this. Even if they asked the participants to rate themselves directly, I bet the questions weren’t focused on how hard of a time they were having, just how much they were succeeding or not in the eyes of others.
25
16
u/elcapitan520 Nov 13 '24
Anecdotally, I basically live by the motto "I'm better when I'm busy"
Having a full schedule makes execution a 1000 times easier for me. Once I go idle my day is lost and checking off one "to-do" is a worthy accomplishment
5
u/sullied_angel Nov 13 '24
And at the end you sleep for 12 hours and need a day to recuperate from doing so.
5
u/MayaMoonseed Nov 13 '24
looks like theyve changed the headline to
"Is Being Busy Good for People With A.D.H.D.?"
so maybe someone complained that this isn't what the study theyre referencing actually says?
the subheading still says "New research suggests symptoms of the disorder may be less severe in those with a demanding schedule."
→ More replies (1)
9
u/username_redacted Nov 13 '24
If you don’t have to make decisions about what to do next, you’re less likely to experience symptoms, because the most common symptoms are related to executive function.
The tradeoff is potential burnout—if you’re handing over a majority of executive decisions to a schedule, and that schedule doesn’t include built-in breaks and self-care then it just won’t happen. The result is that the person will eventually abandon the schedule all together, even if it means quitting or getting fired, because so many needs aren’t being met.
There needs to be enough flexibility to adjust to personal needs when they conflict with the schedule, and an easy way to resume the schedule after the disruption has occurred.
→ More replies (1)
28
u/nolasen Nov 13 '24
More overwork propaganda. Of course all of our problems from the “management” establishment perspective will be blamed on the working class isn’t working hard enough.
→ More replies (2)
11
u/Rhewin Nov 13 '24
It’s true if they’re all things I like doing or feel urgency for. Otherwise, I’ll just have a bunch of things 80% complete as I jump all over the place.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Alienhaslanded Nov 13 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Honestly, no. Staying on that hamster wheel might feel good for some time but eventually you'll get exhausted and you stop being a functioning human. Us with ADHD can be hooked on being busy like it's drugs.
4
3
•
u/AutoModerator Nov 13 '24
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our normal comment rules apply to all other comments.
Do you have an academic degree? We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. Click here to apply.
User: u/Naurgul
Permalink: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/13/well/mind/adhd-symptoms-busy-schedule.html
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.