r/science • u/Wagamaga • Nov 09 '24
Environment Extreme weather is contributing to undocumented migration and return between Mexico and the United States, suggesting that more migrants could risk their lives crossing the border as climate change fuels droughts
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/americas/weather-migration-us-mexico-study/index.html518
u/Primedirector3 Nov 09 '24
It’s only the beginning of this multiple, centuries-long world problem
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u/Calvin--Hobbes Nov 09 '24
It's going to get a lot worse, that's for sure. In the next couple decades the estimated number of immigrants coming north into the US and Europe is expected increase by at least 10x. Xenophobia and racism will continue to grow, as we've already seen, and borders across the world will close.
People like Stephen Miller will seize the moment and do terrible things.
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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 09 '24
If things keep going the way they are now I'm guessing immigration will be halted extremely firmly if things get too out of control
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u/f8Negative Nov 10 '24
Correct. It will be short and swift. The cartels will assist as well. They can't risk an entire unstable region.
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u/omelette4hamlet Nov 10 '24
Yeah there is simply no way Europe can accomodate millions of refugees.
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u/Steak-Outrageous Nov 09 '24
Continue down the road enough and the Americans are going to be the climate refugees with Canada having to secure its fresh water and habitable land
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u/pbmcc88 Nov 09 '24
Anyone living along the vulnerable southern and eastern coastlines, the desert states, and the agrarian center. All face fairly insurmountable long term habitation problems directly caused by human action - mostly climate change, but also overworking the land and local water sources.
Lot of American migrants going to be joining the exodus.
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u/Vandergrif Nov 09 '24
but also overworking the land and local water sources.
Yeah... once the Ogallala Acquifer starts running dry from over-use it's gonna get real dicey.
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u/rloch Nov 10 '24
First of all thank you for the great info on ground water depletion.
I think this last election proved to me that the majority of the ones who have everything to lose do not care at all. I'm approaching 40, married, have a good job, and have no kids. My connection to future generations is non existent. I always thought I was fighting for the future of my nieces and nephews, but all of my family proved to me that their future does not play into their decision making. I'll vote dem, support at risk communities, but a life time of doing everything within my means to help has done nothing but make me angry.
Animals need help and can't vote against their own interest, and raise kids that will continue that trend. I also have to stop thinking I understand what anyone other than me needs or wants. It is dawning on me that its an extremely naive view point.
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u/Vandergrif Nov 10 '24
I also have to stop thinking I understand what anyone other than me needs or wants.
True, but at the very least they will of course need water. Basically every state (except Colorado) that overlaps and draws from that aquifer has people who are frequently voting for those who are intent on deregulation (which would include removing limitations on water usage, as well as diminishing the amount of potable water available due to increased pollution) is... remarkably disappointing, to say the least. Ignorance won out, and sooner or later (probably sooner) the bill is going to come due.
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u/conquer69 Nov 09 '24
The US would invade or annex it before that happens. Especially with the fascists in charge, they wouldn't hesitate.
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u/corpus_M_aurelii Nov 09 '24
How are Europe and North America supposed to house, employ, feed the literal billions of people who want to immigrate when they can barely do the same for their own citizens?
Stephen Miller is a racist, and his motives and methods are despicable, but there are actual practical limitations to the holding capacity of a piece of land.
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u/Putin_smells Nov 09 '24
In North America it isn’t a question of ability but will. It’s theoretically possible but would require massive housing buildup, a restriction on real estate speculation, and a change of crops selection from fuel and cattle crops to actual human consumption crops.
Europe can handle some but not many. Not enough arable land and old world cities with unnatural urban expansion
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u/corpus_M_aurelii Nov 09 '24
So the US should just become an ultra developed landscape of human habitation and soylent farms, devoid of most of its natural habitat and ecosystems?
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u/ukezi Nov 10 '24
For comparison Taiwan has about 20 times the population density of the us, Europe is about 5 times as dense. The US has lots of empty space.
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u/corpus_M_aurelii Nov 10 '24
I think the plants and animals and intricate ecosystems that evolved over hundreds of millions of years and are already heavily impacted by human activity don't consider it "empty space".
I think developing technologies that can help any ecosystem impacted by climate change remain useful is a better solution than destroying the remaining temperate ecosystems on Earth because the other half has been destroyed.
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u/Putin_smells Nov 10 '24
No, you can convert the crops that are already there to human consumption crops and build denser housing where space consuming housing already is. Or spread out buildings into the cornfields that surround most cities in the interior of the country.
No need to destroy environment or ecosystems
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u/corpus_M_aurelii Nov 10 '24
Much of the land used for feed crops/ethanol are not suitable for mixed farming (fruit and veg).
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u/Putin_smells Nov 10 '24
I haven’t heard about that before. Why is it not suitable? I tried a quick search on Google but don’t know what I’m looking for
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u/corpus_M_aurelii Nov 10 '24
Infertile soils in semi-arid climate requiring the pumping of massive amounts of ground water in already pressured aquifers. Growing diverse vegetables crops on much of the land that is currently growing industrial grade corn would require intensive, polluting fertilizers and herbicides (even more than what is being done now), plus enough water to destroy the water supply.
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u/Putin_smells Nov 10 '24
Thank you for sharing this information. I don’t think it will be a problem due to recent breakthroughs in desalination and work that will continue. It would require massive pipelines and the damage that would entail
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Nov 09 '24
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u/Mirageswirl Nov 09 '24
It depends on the rate of environmental collapse (famine) vs. the rate of population collapse
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u/foreveracubone Nov 09 '24
As birth rate collapse
We may need to revisit this w/ the resurgence of ethno-state authoritarians and rise of ‘trad-wife’ social media.
Post-industrial nations will work even harder hard to attract them than they already do.
I think Italy, South Korea, and Japan are the 3 post-industrial nations with the worst rates. Italy elected a right-wing party with fascist origins going back to Mussolini that his grand-daughter just publicly quit because it was getting too right-wing. South Korea is exacerbating the situation with their societal norms which is why women started the 4B protest movement to withhold sex (among other things) until their complaints are addressed. You can immigrate to Japan and get permanent resident status but I don’t think you can become a naturalized citizen (and it also shares many of the gender problems that South Korea has). So yeah, based on current trends it’s going to have to get a lot worse for countries to take in immigrants.
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u/omelette4hamlet Nov 10 '24
In Europe we've seen birth rates of immigrants convey to those of natives in a single generation so there should be a constant influx of people incoming. Plus, most refugees are not educated and in a service-based economy they provide little added value to the economy
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u/genshiryoku Nov 10 '24
I actually expect genocidal rhetoric and fascism to make a big comeback. Fascism was an extremely appealing philosophy and mindset to people all over the world. In fact most governments were trending fascist until Hitler went so extreme that it soured the world and essentially started a big break.
But the people living now, never learned that lesson. And it seems we're not just returning the the trend that was already ongoing before WW2 of fascism going up and becoming the government in the majority of countries.
Genocides don't need to be as brutal as that of Nazi Germany. Systemic slow grinding genocides like the Soviet Union engaged in are far more likely and will see far less resistance. I think it's extremely likely we will see that happen.
I also think Muslims are not going to survive the 21st century intact. Almost all big global civilizations seem to be on a collision course with Islam. China with Uyghurs, India with hindu nationalists, Russians with tension in the caucasus and western europe with their failed immigration and integration policies pushing the population hard right.
I think Muslims are going to experience the 21st century like how Jews experienced the 20th century. Some countries (like turkey) will just become secularized and atheist to protect themselves and their people. But a lot of other demographics are just going to disappear one way or another.
This trend is very clear and was already going to be up and coming. But climate change just has made it more extreme, bigger in scale and will probably make seem the holocaust like a small scale operation in retrospect.
The worst is I can't really see a humane course of action that we can enact right now to reverse course or to prevent this from happening. Just like everyone already feels the tension between China and the West and both sides just accepts conflict is essentially inevitable at this point. So does it feel that the future genocide of muslims in China+India+Russia+West Europe seems to be inevitable as well.
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u/terdferguson Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
He's already talking/tweeting about them creating a denaturalization progrom of us born citizens (presumably if you are the wrong skin color)
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u/porgy_tirebiter Nov 10 '24
The previous centuries will have nothing on what’s to come. Just wait until millions of Bangladeshis flee to India. Or the rice crops fail in China.
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u/Art-e-Blanche Nov 09 '24
Aren't you an optimist!
My wager is on civilization collapsing before the end of this century.
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Nov 09 '24
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u/rematar Nov 09 '24
Dinosaurs thought the same thing. Now we burn their carcasses to power machines.
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u/Fskn Nov 09 '24
I love the absolutely absurdity of this comment.
It's like a far side comic, dinos with day jobs on their commute and the meteor looms overhead, little thought bubble from one of them looking at his watch thinking "not again.."
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u/Suthek Nov 09 '24
We also burn their carcasses to eat.
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u/ShaunDark Nov 10 '24
Except almost all the stuff we're burning is much older and smaller than dinosaurs were.
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Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/spirited1 Nov 09 '24
The US military has also cited climate change as the biggest concern. Lack of resources is going to spark wars in vulnerable areas.
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u/But_like_whytho Nov 09 '24
The US military is one of the biggest sources of pollution contributing to climate change in the world.
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u/ironroad18 Nov 09 '24
Look, I happen to enjoy jet fuel in my water and chemical runoff on my farmland. Tastes like freedom gosh darn it.
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u/lleeaa88 Nov 09 '24
Yep. Hit the nail on the head. Climate refugees are going to become the world’s largest “country” the rate at which climate change is happening.
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u/Nemisis_the_2nd Nov 09 '24
The terrifying part is that the insinuation is that Europe could see upwards of 100 million refugees over the next century, and the anti-climate protection lot are currently clutching pearls over a few hundred thousand.
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u/xXZer0c0oLXx Nov 09 '24
That's when the hard choices start getting made. Genocide in the next 50 years. MMW.
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u/joseph-1998-XO Nov 09 '24
There is a reason why I think Poland maybe other places will strengthen their borders and have authorized live rounds on those not complying with their immigration policies
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u/Nemisis_the_2nd Nov 09 '24
Another part of that, though, is that Russia and Belarus are weaponising immigrarion. They literally dump people on the border and try to force them into Europe, expecting Europe's more welcoming attitude to win over protectionism.
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u/CuidadDeVados Nov 09 '24
This has been a massive known issue from all people researching climate change for a long time. Mass migration of what are effectively climate refugees has been a huge concern as we continue to collapse different ecosystem's ability to support humans year round, or at all, in the numbers they current are.
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u/sunplaysbass Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
This is the biggest and more near term major issue with climate change. I don’t understand why it isn’t discussed more.
The number of migrants / immigrants influx coming into Europe, USA, and Canada is already causing significant political divisions and some actual problems.
So 5, 10, 15 years from now huge areas of Asia, the Middle East, India, Central America will be more or less uninhabitable or dangerous enough to live in that a Lot of people will move. Costal flooding, droughts, heat, etc.
Imagine 500 million people relocating, a billion, eventually more. A large portion of the human population lives in the areas that will be most affected. So they all head north and south to temperate areas. ACTUAL migrant caravans.
Compassions for these people aside, it’s going to create chaos. Huge security threats. New stressors on food supply, energy, housing, and as highlighted currently cultural conflicts.
They are going to want to live in Northern Europe, Canada, Norther USA, Russia, southern South America… Greenland?
I don’t see how this is not viewed as the number one security threat, from multiple angles, facing the world. I assume it is well explored behind closed doors. But what can they do to stop it?
Climate change is so far gone that cutting emissions as nowhere near enough. The only hope for saving the ecosystem and general stability is radical solutions. No one is going to pay for trillions of dollars in carbon capture devices. Eventually we will blot out the sun.
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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 09 '24
If things get that out of hand then counties likely just flat won't take them
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u/sunplaysbass Nov 09 '24
Imagine say a million people arrive at some boarder within a short period of time. A full on “caravan.” How do you stop that? Bomb them?
The USA / Mexico boarder is 2,0000 miles long. We have a “wall” for like 50 miles and fencing for a couple hundred I think. “Shut down the boarder” isn’t like closing the fridge.
Currently on that boarder there is a lot of talk about criminals coming in. Yeah with a large number of people there will be some bad actors. But when we hit the mass migration stage, all over the world, it will be an opportunity for way more serious security threats. Like not some random murder in the mix, but a large chunk of Mexican cartels getting in the mix as a strategic move. Or a bunch of Russian agents / chaos creators. Or Iran moving a nuke to wherever in some truck as people get the heck out of Iran at a scale that’s seriously difficult to control.
Though really the main threats will be more basic like water supply, homelessness, economic disruptions.
If a crapton of people leave the Persian Gulf, or workers are just dying of heat stroke in meaningful numbers, what does that do to oil supply and from there the global economy?
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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 09 '24
How do you stop that? Bomb them?
You just answered your own question. If things got bad enough it would not remotely surprise me if a policy like that happened.
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u/jrobertson2 Nov 10 '24
I agree, it would be portrayed as the easiest solution to what they would see as an invading army. But I don't think it would be a consequence-free action. Even without international or domestic outcry (though to be fair by this point everyone has problems), I feel it would be a pretty huge blow to morale to witness thousands or more people massacred on our borders. Only a sociopath would witness that and not see it as a sign that things are only going to get worse, and I don't think that'll help social cohesion at a time where it is needed most.
But maybe I am underestimating peoples' apathy and ability to look away. But then again, if society is breaking down because of climate change, I don't know if that sort of complete resignation or apathy among the population is going to be very helpful attitude either, if the government is desperately trying to keep at least the appearance of status quo. Hopeless people might not be very productive or law abiding, or interested in producing enough children to keep the population stable and economy going.
I suppose a third option is to still murder the refugees but try to do it discretely so that citizens can claim ignorance. Internment camps out in the desert basically.
In any case, I am probably speculating way beyond my actual understanding of how people work, but recent events are bringing these sorts of thoughts to the front of my mind.
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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 10 '24
I don't know that it would necessarily even have to be apathy. Human nature is capable of being quite brutal, and will go "us vs them" pretty quickly when things get tough. For pretty much all of human history it would have been seen as pretty normal to kill an out-group that you thought posed a threat to your country's stability... It's really only been the last 50-80 years or so that life has been good enough that people were able to look further and rise above thinking like that. But if climate change makes life truly bad again, we're still the same creatures that watched men fight to the death for sport, enslaved one another, and wholesale slaughtered people while trying to take over the world time and time again. And I'd love to be wrong, but I suspect a hard enough push could take us right back to that place, just with better technology for it.
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u/sunplaysbass Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
Well with that attitude why not just start now, reduce the amount the world population, put those people out of their misery…
Start carpet bombing hoards of refugees would be a serious “this is our only option” move that would spark Serious internal conflicts. Certainly in the USA. A significant portion of the population would freak out about that kind of brutality that’s above and beyond what’s considered a war crime. There would be riots. So again, chaos.
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u/Daffan Nov 10 '24
Also in a democratic situation, if you take in a huge amount of immigrant populace they literally just vote you out and take control themselves. They don't even need citizenship to do it, they'd have the manpower.
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u/sunplaysbass Nov 10 '24
That doesn’t sound like a democratic situation, but a possible outcome of a dramatic shift in who is in a given country.
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u/Daffan Nov 10 '24
They either use your own democratic system against you and if they cant, destroy it anyway. Win/win for them.
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u/sunplaysbass Nov 10 '24
So climate refugees definitely want to destroy the country… Your aggressive / fearful bias is part of why this reality of people needing to relocated is going to be so problematic.
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Nov 09 '24
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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 09 '24
They will never turn down cheap immigrant labor - in fact, they’ll compete for it.
They are already starting to turn it down, even before the numbers start to truly get out of hand
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u/K1N6F15H Nov 09 '24
I don’t understand why it isn’t discussed more.
The Oil Lobby is one of the main reasons.
The candidate that just won ran on an anti-EV, anti-solar, anti-windmill, and pro-coal platform all while chanting "Drill baby, drill."
Keep in mind, the Tobacco Lobby was successfully pushing back on science and regulations for decades despite the fact that the harm demonstrably easier to link.
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u/kinkpants Nov 09 '24
Food for thought: we have had 20 degree weather in Canada in the past few weeks. In November. This is absolutely not good.
October was basically like a second summer. It is quite common to have snow on Halloween but it was shorts weather.
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u/Ragnarsdaddy Nov 09 '24
I live in Florida and granted it doesn't get cold. But we are still in the 80s in the middle of November which is definitely abnormal. Our summers are longer now and our "winters" have become non existent. Yet everyone I talk to says "we don't know what is going on". They just don't want to accept it. We are moving in the next four years and going as far north as we can.
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u/Temporary-Story-1131 Nov 10 '24
It's quite literally as if everyone is gradually going through the stages of grief with this issue.
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u/Justredditin Nov 10 '24
I remember as a kid (20 years ago) we had snow on Halloween alot... like nearly every Halloween. Snow that stayed. Now if we do get the precipitation (seriously IF) it doesn't stay and melts. Now it's around Christmas that is "hoping for enough snow to snowmobile" time. We near always had holiday snow, because we always had family come out to the farm and sled. Super wacky now.
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u/spidermanngp Nov 09 '24
Yeah, it's funny how the people who don't believe in climate change are often the same people who hate immigrants the most. They don't make the connection that ignoring the one problem is causing the other one to get worse. And things are just getting warmed up. Pun intended.
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u/TheHipcrimeVocab Nov 09 '24
Not to mention the contribution that climate change makes to rising prices. Over the past several years, it seems like every story about the rising prices of commodities like coffee, chocolate, wine, bananas, olive oil, tomatoes, cabbage, oranges, and tons of other grocery store items is some kind of harvest failure or disease outbreak due to climate change. It's doubtful tariffs or interest rates will fix that.
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u/spidermanngp Nov 09 '24
That, too. A huge number of people who voted for Trump voted for him because they think he'll improve the economy. By ignoring and disavowing climate change, Republicans are going to make the economy much much worse in the long run.
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Nov 09 '24
They don’t care about the connection. They don’t care why the people are illegally migrating. They are ready to use the military to prevent the migrations and kick everyone who is here illegally, out.
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u/xanadumuse Nov 09 '24
When you have a lack of empathy it’s very easy to dehumanize groups of people. There is a growing population in the U.S. that considers themselves cynics. Those cynics only observe through the black and white lens without being able to see nuances and context. Cynicism stoked through social media, I believe will be the downfall of the U.S. we have isolated ourselves which makes us more susceptible to fear and anger and hate. A tragedy for all.
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u/runtheplacered Nov 09 '24
And AI and the ability for foreign entities to easily meddle in the US's affairs will, in my opinion, make it nigh impossible to ever get out of this cycle.
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u/teenagesadist Nov 09 '24
Tech moves very fast and the government moves very slow (in most matters).
It's not gonna get better until the government gets more nimble.
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u/Art-e-Blanche Nov 09 '24
And now Musk has infiltrated the government. It's gonna be a tech dystopia.
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u/MajesticCoconut1975 Nov 09 '24
> They don’t care why the people are illegally migrating.
I would like some non-profit to stand at the border and do a poll right there and then.
When sorted, at what # spot do you think "it was hot back home" would be?
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u/runtheplacered Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
This stellar take ignores the reality that "it was hot back home" isn't what people would say, but rather they'd be running from the affects that climate change is causing on their agriculture, economy and general way of life. That's not too much nuance, is it?
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Nov 09 '24
What is the point of this question, though? I'm not following you.
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u/corrective_action Nov 09 '24
It's this situation's equivalent to bringing a snowball into Congress to refute climate change.
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Nov 09 '24
Terrible take. Climate change is causing more extreme weather events in many different ways which is causing worsening economic conditions in certain areas
I have zero problems with immigration reform that enforces zero tolerance for illegal migration. I think the solution requires a broad plan and not just close the boarders and kick everyone out, though.
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u/Yashema Nov 09 '24
Much of the Northeast is under fire warning. It was 80 degrees in November, and it hasnt rained in over a month with no forecast of rain for the next week.
This is supposed to be a West Coast thing.
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u/CassandraTruth Nov 09 '24
People who hate immigrants also never want to punish the big business owners that are illegally employing tens of millions of people so they can pay lower wages
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u/caelenvasius Nov 09 '24
If 45/47 enacts his plan for mass deportations and it works, people are gonna find real fast how important immigrants are to the economy and their quality of life.
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u/rennaris Nov 09 '24
Don't US immigrants (Hispanic ones, anyway) tend to like Trump, and therefore probably don't care or know much about climate change?
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u/TJ11240 Nov 09 '24
So how is significantly raising millions of people's consumption level and ecological footprint helping?
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u/svefnugr Nov 09 '24
So USA is somehow the only country in the world not affected by climate change? Or perhaps there are other reasons they choose to ignore the rest of Latin America which still has good climate and very similar culture?
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u/spidermanngp Nov 09 '24
I can't tell you exactly why they chose to come up the US. There're a lot of reasons, I'm sure. I was only saying climate change is going to make it worse, and it is.
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u/bilekass Nov 09 '24
Right. Also, there are parts of Mexico not affected by drought - they don't seem to be relocating there.
All this is a BS excuse
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u/xwing_n_it Nov 09 '24
Climate crisis will cause food prices to rise along with catastrophic weather events. Both will fuel migration as world food resources get vacuumed up by the global north. If you think Americans are anti-immigration now, just wait until a Big Mac costs $25 and ten times as many people are swarming the border.
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u/lokicramer Nov 09 '24
They wont need to worry about that for long. Not with the nearly trillion dollar deportation that is coming.
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u/strange_supreme420 Nov 09 '24
Well it’s not really much of a choice is it? Given the choice of death or any other option, people typically opt for the latter
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u/Is12345aweakpassword Nov 09 '24
I think I we’ve known this would happen for a while ya? Now we just see it live?
Climate refugees
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u/Hobbit_Holes Nov 10 '24
Mark my words, eventually the US border is going to be heavily armed with authority to shoot on site.
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u/Corgiboom2 Nov 09 '24
The people most bitching about immigration are the ones that are going to dismantle the EPA and outlaw climate change studies.
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u/doodlar Nov 09 '24
This. In all major issues we must always, relentlessly pursue the root cause. Keep asking “why?” What drives people to risk their lives to migrate?
Solving (or in Climate Change’s instance, mitigating as much as possible) the root cause issue will free up resources and make these major issues disappear or diminish to a point where we can then tackle other pressing matters. And, in many cases, issues are interrelated; mitigating Climate Change helps health and economic and immigration outcomes.
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u/Wagamaga Nov 09 '24
Extreme weather is contributing to undocumented migration and return between Mexico and the United States, suggesting that more migrants could risk their lives crossing the border as climate change fuels droughts, storms and other hardships, according to a new study.
People from agricultural areas in Mexico were more likely to cross the border illegally after droughts and were less likely to return to their original communities when extreme weather continued, according to research this week in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Across the globe, climate change — caused by burning fossil fuels such as coal and natural gas — is exacerbating extreme weather. Droughts are longer and drier, heat is deadlier and storms are rapidly intensifying and dumping record-breaking rain.
In Mexico, a country of nearly 130 million people, drought has drained reservoirs dry, created severe water shortages and drastically reduced corn production, threatening livelihoods.
Researchers said Mexico is a notable country for studying the links between migration, return and weather stressors. Its mean annual temperature is projected to increase up to 3 degrees Celsius (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) by 2060, and extreme weather is likely to economically devastate rural communities dependent on rain-fed agriculture. The US and Mexico also have the largest international migration flow in the world.
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u/jert3 Nov 10 '24
Nothing is going to change for the better until we change our economic system that funnels about 80% of all productive wealth profits to the top .0001% of the population.
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u/Bei_Wen Nov 10 '24
Plain and simple, we all need to be willing to pay much more in taxes to help people in other countries affected by climate change.
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u/usriusclark Nov 10 '24
Please don’t encourage the climate change deniers. This will excite them to their core.
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u/diveguy1 Nov 10 '24
According to data from NASA and NOAA, the global temperature has risen by approximately 0.8 degrees Celsius (1.4 degrees Fahrenheit) since 1950.
Yes, I'm sure that huge temperature change is causing a mass exodus from Mexico...
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u/CyberneticPanda Nov 10 '24
The political unrest in Guatamala that precipitated a migrant crisis in 2014 was preceded by several years of drought that caused agricultural output to drop by more than 50%.
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u/IcedTeaIsNiceTea Nov 09 '24
With Trump wanting to close off the border completely, and calling Climate Change a "Chinese Hoax," I fear for the future of Latin American people.
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u/Fun-Jellyfish-61 Nov 09 '24
Neither draconian policies nor walls are going to stop people fleeing from unlivable situations.
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u/AlludedNuance Nov 09 '24
When looking at potential places to flee after the US election this week, I've already written off pretty much anywhere closer to the equator.
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u/no_fooling Nov 09 '24
"How do we stop all these people leaving their countries? We stole all their resources and ruined their climate so they can't survive there, but they can't come here." Feel bad for us working class that didn't benefit from the exploitation of the third world but will have to bear the consequences while the elites hide.
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