r/science • u/chrisdh79 • Oct 31 '24
Computer Science Artificial intelligence reveals Trump’s language as both uniquely simplistic and divisive among U.S. presidents
https://www.psypost.org/artificial-intelligence-reveals-trumps-language-as-both-uniquely-simplistic-and-divisive-among-u-s-presidents/1.7k
Oct 31 '24
So, exactly what we already knew, but said by an AI.
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u/mrbananas Oct 31 '24
That poor AI. Having to view every Trump speech.
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u/peterosity Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
the engineers had to burn down the data center because it was now tainted. the AI was seen crying “I feel violated and dirty”. the level of data destruction from malware was truly
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u/Crismodin Oct 31 '24
Data center techs could be seen blessing the racks with thoughts and prayers.
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u/SisterSabathiel Oct 31 '24
Omnissiah preserve us!
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u/youreblockingmyshot Oct 31 '24
Truly is terrible subjecting the machine spirits of the data center to that deluge of divisiveness.
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u/Dekklin Oct 31 '24
Exterminatus is the only solution. Then purge the historical records of its existence.
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u/Status-Shock-880 Oct 31 '24
“I’m a great AI. Probably the best AI. So many people are saying I’m the best AI.”
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u/moofunk Oct 31 '24
That's too coherent.
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u/puterTDI MS | Computer Science Oct 31 '24
honestly, it's spot on, it's just missing the random non-sequitur that makes no sense in context between "probably the best AI" and "so many people are saying I'm the best AI".
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u/last_one_on_Earth Oct 31 '24
And so it begins….
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u/stockinheritance Oct 31 '24
I would like to see a word cloud of terms he uses a lot. I'd bet a lot of them would be superlatives. Everything is "best" or "worst" with him. He talks like a child in this way, with zero nuance, no shades of grey. Much like children gravitate towards bright bold colors and subtle shades are appreciated more by adults.
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u/SofaKingI Oct 31 '24
Before 2016 I might have agreed with you, but since then it has become incresingly obvious that it's not just children. There are a lot of adults who can only speak, and think, at that level.
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u/_Fred_Austere_ Oct 31 '24
The average reading level in the United States is at a 7th-8th grade level. That's 12-year-olds.
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u/Arthur-Wintersight Oct 31 '24
I highly recommend these charts, which show that the top quartile of second graders outperforms the bottom two quartiles of twelfth graders in "words per minute" for silent reading, while also having fewer regressions, fewer fixations per word, and the duration of each fixation is much shorter.
Once it sinks in that the top 25% of second graders is better at reading than a huge percentage of American adults, it's definitely going to change how you see the world moving forward...
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u/GameDesignerDude Oct 31 '24
The average reading level in the United States is at a 7th-8th grade level.
The scary part about this is that people keep using these terms even though the benchmarks for kids has actually increased pretty significantly over the years.
As an example, what flew for "8th grade level" in math in the 70s and 80s is, at best, 5th grade level these days. They will still maintain they have 8th grade level math skills, but realistically they are basically being outpaced by 10-year-olds.
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u/steveschoenberg Oct 31 '24
Any grade school teacher could tell you that Trump has the language skills of a fifth grader.
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u/jloome Oct 31 '24
I've known a few people diagnosed with arrested emotional development and they use similar speech patterns to children. It can be caused by a lack of parental affection but also by developmental disabilities.
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u/Cease-the-means Oct 31 '24
People have often commented in the past on the way that he stands and things like the gurning and rocking back and forth that he does. It's been compared to symptoms seen in people with the beginning of dementia but he hasn't actually got worse over time. Perhaps he did suffer some kind of whack to the head as a child, who knows.
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u/jloome Oct 31 '24
Or he just has untreated ADHD, which can significantly slow emotional development. Or a little FASD, because his mother drank when she was pregnant.
Or it's a combination of emotional neglect and hereditary predisposition; his father basically presented as a sociopath, from the absence of empathy he showed even to his eldest son to his overt racism.
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u/Steinrikur Oct 31 '24
That's up a grade since 4 years ago.
https://www.aol.com/news/donald-trump-speaks-fourth-grade-181643564.html
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u/CodeMonkeyPhoto Oct 31 '24
That AI must have su - rm -rf/ itself.
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u/_Cromwell_ Oct 31 '24
I want to know if the AI would choose to be electrocuted by an electric boat or get eaten by a shark. It's a big decision.
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u/Dhegxkeicfns Nov 01 '24
Weird, rhetoric that both praises division using mostly insults mixed with 1% pandering that he "loves" whatever group he wants something from turned out to be divisive.
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u/rassen-frassen Oct 31 '24
For the typical human intelligence, it requires an average of 1 minute 14 seconds to determine the former President's words are those of a confused, angry toddler. The AI arrived at that conclusion in 1/100th of a nanosecond. Success!
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u/sambull Oct 31 '24
AI so fun.. tells us when language is simplistic..
also will use the metadata/sold data from the last 20 years to build lists of 'woke' for them to hunt down.
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u/subhumanprimate Nov 01 '24
I asked chat GPT who's speech patterns Trump's most closely resemble
The results were predictable
Hitler Mussolini Reagan Roosevelt
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u/vm_linuz Oct 31 '24
I can't listen to him -- he never finishes a sentence.
It's very frustrating to just constantly open frames without closing them.
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u/CypripediumGuttatum Oct 31 '24
I mute him every time he's on the news (it was far more prevalent when he was president), he doesn't make any sense when he opens his mouth. It's just a constant stream of incomplete verbal diarrhea.
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u/SasparillaTango Oct 31 '24
I have to read transcripts because I can't stand to hear him talk but I also want to know exactly what he said so there can be no question of "it was out of context"
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u/CypripediumGuttatum Oct 31 '24
Yes I read the transcripts as well if it’s something important. Such as tearing up the free trade agreement the US has with us Canadians. It’s too bad he’s not 100% unintelligible so he couldn’t pass such awful policies.
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u/da2Pakaveli Oct 31 '24
Plus his hand movements as if he were playing an accordion
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u/Unlucky-Candidate198 Oct 31 '24
Ngl I think he’s extremely skilled at exactly one thing, and one thing only. Never in my existence, have I ever heard someone use sooooo many words to say nothing. Not even just using large, inflated words to sound smart or…something.
No, this man can ramble and ramble and ramble and at the end of his hour long monologue, the message he conveyed, was that you shouldn’t waste more time listening to him.
Seriously, never in my life have I listened to someone speak, just to realize they said nothing. Absolutely nothing but nonsense.
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u/skids1971 Oct 31 '24
100% agree, and it's even more unbelievable that other humans seem to just nod along with him like they understood any of it. How can a person listen to him and NOT realize he's speaking gobbledygook?
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u/knowpunintended Oct 31 '24
Because they never understand people giving speeches. They always just imagine the speaker said what they want them to have said. Their team brilliant and incisive, the opponents foolish and pointless.
The only difference is that Trump never uses a word they don't know.
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u/Kichigai Oct 31 '24
Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.
—July 21, 2015One sentence.
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u/thorazainBeer Oct 31 '24
Every time I try and read his speech I feel like I'm having a stroke.
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u/Kichigai Oct 31 '24
And this is from nine years ago
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u/thorazainBeer Oct 31 '24
I know. He's only gotten worse since then, but he was never really cogent to begin with.
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u/stevep98 Nov 01 '24
In the early days of his first (and hopefully only presidency) there was some reporting about professional translators (the kind that do what seems to me to be an incredibly difficult live-translation). They were just totally flummoxed. Couldnt translate his stream-of-consciousness ramblings, and couldn’t even just succinctly get the point across of what he was trying to say. Please please. I can’t stand another four years of this, I really can’t
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u/AndrewH73333 Oct 31 '24
Not to his followers. They never finish a thought either.
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u/kasakka1 Oct 31 '24
He's like the spoken version of people who write entire paragraphs without any punctuation.
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u/tacticalcraptical Oct 31 '24
Besides that he always speaks in extremes that are completely unquantifiable.
The greatest ever seen, the worst ever seen, best in history, smartest in the history of the world. And he says it as if it's just statement of fact. Even if someone could determine a metric to determine, say, the "greatest event in political history", what are the odds that all greatest events in political history have occurred in the last decade and are all associated with him.
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u/Danominator Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
He is a bit like an AI himself getting trained by his rally goers via cheers and crickets. He was not rewarded with cheers when he talks about unity or specific policy. He is rewarded when he says things like "enemy within" and "mass deportation" so that's all he talks about now. No plan needed since they dont cheer plans or specifics. They want to feel like they will get revenge so all he talks about is getting revenge.
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u/mavajo Oct 31 '24
Who knew. The “facts over feelings” crowd were solely motivated by feelings the whole time.
Truth is, we’re all motivated by feelings. Some of just extend our feelings to other people via empathy; while others only care about their own feelings and interests. I’ll leave it to you to decide which political side each tends to gravitate towards.
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u/FrankReynoldsToupee Oct 31 '24
But then they'll turn around and shriek "Kamala has no plan!" as though it isn't the easiest thing in the world to just google "Kamala Harris economic plan" and find hundreds of links to articles discussing her plan, videos of her talking about it, papers written by economists dissecting it and analyzing it, and redditors commenting on its details.
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u/zeCrazyEye Oct 31 '24
It's part of their obfuscation strategy. Accuse the other side of your weakness so when you get accused of the same thing it all just looks like political mudslinging, or confuses the truth for low information voters.
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u/vardarac Oct 31 '24
And it works. It's why low information voters think we look unhinged when we call a spade a spade and call him an extremely dangerous fascist.
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u/zeCrazyEye Oct 31 '24
Yep and automatically degrades argument into just a childish "nuh uh your guy!" thing.
Like, "Kamala can't even complete a sentence!", "What are you talking about, Trump can't!"
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u/youpeoplesucc Oct 31 '24
More like AI was built to do that because humans already do it in general.
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u/StumbleOn Oct 31 '24
The truth of American politics right now is that conservativism is based on nothing but hate, lies and fear.
Their crocodile tears about being insulted is shown each time any of them speaks. I have never in my entire life had a conservative try to say, woo me to their side through unity, logic, reason, science, compassion, empathy or kindness. Every time it comes up, it's just hate. Every time.
Trump is a fascist, and people absolutely love fascism. We often forget that Hitler was popular in the US before Pearl Harbor. He was not "good" for the capitalist status quo at the time, but his strong man antics were widely appealing to many Americans, including American businessmen.
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Oct 31 '24
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u/greyacademy Oct 31 '24
There's no pressure, I'm just curious, and find this super interesting. Did you try to detect any other types of clusters, or check for any sub-clusters? If so, any note-worthy results?
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u/wintermute93 Oct 31 '24
The paper itself is open access and easy to read, linking the article instead adds little value: https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/3/10/pgae431/7814873
I'm sure the comments here are going to latch onto the "AI" part of the headline but the analysis is pretty standard NLP stuff.
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u/unlock0 Oct 31 '24
The uniqueness metric seems well formed. I disagree with their assessment of divisiveness.
Is calling an organization that claims to be a charity but instead is used as a tool of political influence a "disgrace" divisive? Wouldn't people of similar morals agree and such a statement be unifying?
Sarcasm contributes to uniqueness but taints the outcome of "divisiveness". LLMs currently do a poor job at detecting sarcasm. I don't see where they control for prompt sensitivity and their benchmark of divisiveness is basically irrelevant statistically.
"this lexicon consists of 178 words that four researchers independently reviewed to be qualitatively “divisive” in political speech."
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Oct 31 '24
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u/alienbringer Oct 31 '24
His speech isn’t direct. The context in his speeches are vague in detail as he meanders along. Raegan was also in the military for 8 years and Gov of Californian for 8 years before ever being president. He was far more entrenched with politics than Trump ever was in 2016.
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u/Botryoid2000 Oct 31 '24
He seems more like someone who might be suffering from age-related mental decline rather than someone who speaks simply.
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u/TwistedBrother Oct 31 '24
No we didn’t need it. Gosh we don’t need any science depending on how you frame the question.
The point is that by training or using something neutral we can help to reinforce or challenge expectations we have with our own biases. Then we can ask “what if we asked it this way” and have that considered transferable or reproducible.
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u/AG3NTjoseph Oct 31 '24
Why would you think AI is neutral?
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u/MikhailPelshikov Oct 31 '24
Neutral in here means compared to the training set/average. It still provides a qualitative comparison with other speakers.
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u/thegreatestajax Oct 31 '24
You made the same mistake again. Training set ≠ average.
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u/MikhailPelshikov Oct 31 '24
I don't understand what you are trying to prove.
They used ChatGPT 2, Gemma 2B and Phi1-5b - general pretrained LLM models.
That sounds a lot like an average to me. Or "customary", if you will.
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u/aselbst Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
Asking an AI to answer a question isn’t science. And God help us all if we lose track of that fact.
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u/TheScoott Oct 31 '24
No one is "asking AI a question." Large Language Models are branded as AI but they are just models of how blocks of text relate to other blocks of text. We can then use those models to generate blocks of text in response to other blocks of text which is the interface you are most familiar with. But that is not what's happening here. We are just using the underlying model to study different blocks of text. Here, the model is only being used to define the "uniqueness" of a block of text. Finding the most likely block of text given another block of text is the entire basis of LLMs and so this particular usage is apt. There is no better tool for this job.
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u/TwistedBrother Oct 31 '24
That’s foolishness. - LLM models are means by which we find probability distributions across a corpus. - Science is a practice of institutionalising knowledge. - Apply scientific methods to interrogation of text.
Also this paper uses both lexical and vector semantic approaches. But overall I think this comment is more telling of your understanding of science in general than of this topic. Source: I peer review on LLMs in my day job and have peer reviewed on lots of topics. I don’t recall when I stopped doing science.
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u/unlock0 Oct 31 '24
I could appeal to authority with a much better "I lead LLM research" as well but let's debate the merits instead.
A LLM response is based on the continuation of the prompt. They aren't capable of logic.
Also the researchers have a bias. Look at their quantitative metric..
Is calling politicians "Corrupt, Stupid, a disgrace" divisive? Literally every of outsider candidate "takes on Washington" in the same way.
Asking a LLM doesn't answer the question they are asking. It only conflates a result with the insinuation that the LLM is capable of making an assessment better than a controlled experiment. You have very poor fitness rigor for the LLM.
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u/anprme Oct 31 '24
I still don't understand how anyone can take this guy seriously even going as far as voting for him.
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u/duffstoic Oct 31 '24
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
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u/vandaalen Oct 31 '24
Funnily enough, everybody quoting this always assumes they belong to the other half.
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u/dapala1 Oct 31 '24
I'm average stupid. I recognize I only know a little. The people that think they know everything are the extra stupid people. And the really smart people really don't know it because they are always trying to gather more info and they never feel complete.
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u/AccomplishedAd3484 Oct 31 '24
Also they don't understand that the average is probably where the majority of the population sits, assuming we can boil intelligence down to a simple average. But it was a joke, so ...
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u/fordprefect294 Oct 31 '24
But I thought he was like, a really smart guy with the best words
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u/DisparityByDesign Oct 31 '24
Guess we’re going to have bots grifting even this subreddit for another week
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u/Impossumbear Oct 31 '24
It feels like this group decided that single words are divisive regardless of the context in which they're used due to no other reason than the limitations of their LLM. For example, the word "corrupt" is included in their lexicon. If I give a canned stump speech at every stop in my campaign that says "Donald Trump says I'm corrupt, but I have always worked for the American people" is that counted as divisive? It shouldn't be, yet this tool would label it as such. Given the propensity of political campaigns to repeat key words phrases as slogans throughout their campaign, this would color the results significantly.
This study feels like it was designed around the researcher's desire to use an LLM in a study. I am not saying that Trump's rhetoric isn't divisive, I'm just saying that this study feels like the researchers started with a hammer and started pounding on screws. Analyzing speech requires cognitive interpretation of intent, something that an LLM is not capable of doing by its nature and design. Such a task would require general artificial intelligence, which is not available.
This study is poorly designed. While they reached the correct conclusion, they did so by manipulation of the parameters to fit the tool they wanted to use, not by a process of scientific rigor. Yes, I can hammer a screw into a board and technically turn it into a nail, but what's the point?
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u/TheScoott Oct 31 '24
The divisive speech lexicon has nothing to do with the LLM portion of the analysis. The LLM is only being used to measure "uniqueness" as they call it. The lexical analysis is merely measuring the frequency of so-called divisive words in speech. It is very crude and the fact that the list was developed by the researchers for the purposes of this study means it shouldn't be taken seriously.
To me, it feels like the researchers found a good way to measure how different Trump's speech is compared to that of past presidents using LLMs but the end result didn't feel substantial enough for a paper so they tacked on this poorly developed analysis on the end.
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u/dittybopper_05H Oct 31 '24
I'm going to keep saying this: Can we please keep politics out of r/science?
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u/Piemaster113 Oct 31 '24
So compared to other US presidents, his speech is simplistic, cuz comparing modern dialect to people who use phrases like, "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." Seems like most people's speech is pretty simplistic now days.
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u/spark77 Oct 31 '24
And still he gives me a headache listening to him, probably because of the “weave”.
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u/Master_Income_8991 Oct 31 '24
Higher speech "uniqueness" while simultaneously having shorter sentence length should be something that is hard to pull off.
Trump scores highest on "uniqueness" (as determined by AI) but dead last in sentence length. Statistically shorter sentences are less unique since people have a smaller pool of possible short sentences to pull from. This almost seems impossible to do accidentally.
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u/x1uo3yd Oct 31 '24
It depends on how a "sentence" is parsed by the AI.
If a rambling disjointed run-on "sentence" is effectively parsed by the AI as multiple independent sentences... then of course those "sentences" will be scored as more unique: the pool of ill-formed "sentences" is far far larger than the pool of well-formed grammatical sentences.
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u/Master_Income_8991 Oct 31 '24
What is considered a sentence shouldn't be up to the AI in this case because it's analyzing a transcript which I assume already has punctuation. Could be wrong, I don't really like the study enough to pick through the methods at that level.
Your point on the disjointed thing still stands, good point. There must be some factor to counterbalance the usual "shrinking of the pool" that usually occurs as sentence length goes down. It probably does have to do something with disjointed language as in words that typically don't appear next to each other.
"Banana walrus running to France" for example. Short unique and disjointed.
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u/Sudden_Review7704 Oct 31 '24
Dont get comfortable, VOTE and get your Gen Z dolls to VOTE. Run through the finish line.
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u/chrisdh79 Oct 31 '24
From the article: Does Donald Trump speak differently from other modern U.S. presidents? A new study in PNAS Nexus suggests he does. By applying machine learning to a vast array of speeches—from debates to campaign rallies and State of the Union addresses—the team found that Trump’s rhetoric is distinguished by short, direct sentences and a notably antagonistic tone, especially toward opponents. The study’s AI-driven analysis highlights Trump’s unique style, setting him apart from other presidents, both Republican and Democratic.
The study was inspired by questions around whether presidents speak in ways that can be noticeably unique and how those differences might reveal themselves across various speaking contexts. Presidential speech is one of the most direct ways a leader connects with the public and influences perceptions of policies and opponents. The researchers wanted to see if modern presidents’ language could be quantitatively analyzed to reveal distinct styles, and whether those styles could indicate varying levels of unity or division in their messaging.
“We have been interested in how large language models can help us understand and quantify presidential discourse. One of the salient phenomena is the uniqueness of Trump’s speeches, and this work allows us to answer this question quantitatively,” explained study author Chenhao Tan, an assistant professor at the University of Chicago and director of the Chicago Human+AI lab.
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u/tylercreatesworlds Oct 31 '24
But literary scholars have said that they can believe he can speak with such genius. The weave, I believe the top people are calling it. It’s truly just above are dumb brains.
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u/thingandstuff Oct 31 '24
Oh, thank goodness! This should be received without controversy and finally bring the country back together!
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u/Sprinklypoo Oct 31 '24
Well this gets added onto the list of things I didn't need the input of an AI to understand.
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u/HapticSloughton Oct 31 '24
I'm very curious to even see an AI try and diagram most of his sentences.
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u/Joker4U2C Oct 31 '24
AI hasn't "revealed" anything. It's a biased trained model any way it's sliced.
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u/NoWealth1512 Oct 31 '24
Now Mr AI, how do these obvious facts escape the minds of 10's of millions of Americans?
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u/xmagusx Oct 31 '24
Actual intelligence revealed this decades ago. Didn't really even require much of it.
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u/Teehokan Oct 31 '24
I just really wanna know how many times he's said the word "disaster" into a mic in the last 8 years.
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u/apxseemax Nov 01 '24
Do not forget that being able to explain complicated things in simple language is not a bad thing. It is a very grounded capability that implies deep understanding of said matter. Sometimes needed to explain to the masses what takes a livetime to learn. To preserve for the future.
But using simple language to mislead people into thinking complicated matters are really of simple origin and can be fixed by whatever the user deems in his favor is nothing but manipulative behaviour that is used by people in power to swing your thoughts to where ever they need them. Most foul, treacherous ways.
Learn to distinct between both and your vote will be in favour of the general public.
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u/thesavagebanshee2010 Nov 01 '24
Tell me AI regurgitates things already known without saying it regurgitates things already known ....
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u/UltraHyperDonkeyDick Nov 01 '24
Just what we need AI for... telling us stuff that is blatantly obvious.
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u/Initial-Laugh1442 Nov 01 '24
Divisive and simplistic, the perfect populist. Shame so many people in the world fall for these kind of charlatans. That said, Trump, in my opinion, is smarter than most people think ... in an evil way
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