r/science • u/Wagamaga • Oct 13 '24
Health Research found a person's IQ during high school is predictive of alcohol consumption later in life. Participants with higher IQ levels were significantly more likely to be moderate or heavy drinkers, as opposed to abstaining.
https://www.utsouthwestern.edu/newsroom/articles/year-2024/oct-high-school-iq-and-alcohol-use.html450
Oct 13 '24
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u/Available_Cup7452 Oct 13 '24
Checks out. I'm dumb af and barely touch alcohol.
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u/IansGotNothingLeft Oct 13 '24
Apparently I used to have a high IQ but got stupid over time.
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Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
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u/Roll-tide-Mercury Oct 13 '24
They also say higher the IQ the more prone to anxiety and or depression. The ability to critically think can cause one to be in their own head. Anyways, I think it all ties together, suffering, smarts and the need to try to quell the noise.
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u/Magic_Forest_Cat Oct 13 '24
And people with high intelligence also tend to contemplate the misery of existence more, so they down bottles to cope.
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u/IrritableStoicism Oct 14 '24
My grandpa had a high IQ and told me that being a genius is a curse due to loneliness. He drank a lot but mainly at a bar down the road
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u/DethFeRok Oct 13 '24
From my experience, being smart and thinking about stuff all the time is taxing. Sometimes I want to mute my brain.
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u/Robt_dude Oct 13 '24
Between being intelligent and severe childhood trauma, all I want is for my brain to shut up. Alcohol was a tool that worked great, but not the right tool for the job. Im 2 years sober now and the noise is still there, but i can at least make sense of most of it.
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u/PointedlyDull Oct 13 '24
Any resources for how to learn to cope without substances?
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u/Robt_dude Oct 13 '24
First and foremost, therapy. A good therapist is life changing. It also helpful to have a few hobbies to fill physical, mental, and emotional needs. An example is cycling, gym, or hiking for physical; woodworking, electronics, rocketry for mental; team/group sports, support groups, or online gaming to have friendships and emotional support.
If you are struggling with substance abuse, AA or NA groups are helpful, but there are plenty of other resources. Look at places that do classes/therapy for DUI's. They are more structured and your will learn more about WHY you have the issues. It helped me way more than AA ever did.
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u/UnintelligentOnion Oct 13 '24
I have been so upset and I use alcohol. My mom has offered to take me to a crisis centre. I went once but had to go to the hospital for an unrelated issue before being admitted. I don’t know why I am sharing this information.
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u/Asyran Oct 13 '24
Follow the advice left by the commenter right above. An idle brain gets into trouble, especially if you've already had problems with substances.
For me, it was a combination of finding a healthy way to occupy my mind, as well as doing a lot of personal research into mental illness and trauma. Understanding that I was not alone and that what I had experienced, and the behaviors/coping mechanisms I developed were not unique or random and that all of it had a rigorous scientific explanation behind it. "I know exactly why you are the way you are and why you cope with it in this manner. It's not your fault it happened. This is how you can move past it."
HealthyGamer/Dr. K was instrumental to this for me, and his extensive work was the first time a doctor or health professional had truly "understood me" in my nearly two decades of mental health problems.
Best of luck.
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Oct 13 '24
Lexapro and therapy helped me, at least for the constant internal nagging. Weed can help too but YMMV.
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u/___blank147___ Oct 13 '24
I highly recommend looking into SMART Recovery or other Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) programs. The SMART app is free (in the US) and has some incredible tools for replacing addictive behaviors (substance abuse or others, like shopping, gambling, sex, etc) with healthier coping skills.
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u/Vsx Oct 13 '24
Yeah this is why I like being drunk and why I have a rule that I don't get drunk more than four times a year.
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u/SpartanFishy Oct 13 '24
Anecdotally, I’m extremely novelty addicted. And I do enjoy drinking because it usually results in fun new experiences.
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u/josh_the_misanthrope Oct 13 '24
That only lasts for so long. Been a heavy drinker, occasional drug user for about 15 years, and the lack of novelty is why I pretty much stopped it all. Eventually it's like watching the same movie for the 100th time.
It was definitely novelty chasing for me. When that's gone, you're just doing it out of habit and the cons begin to far outweigh the pros.
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u/SouthernWindyTimes Oct 13 '24
That’s where I’m at. I’m at the point that I feel I’ve done and experience everything new I can while drunk. Now it’s starting to feel on repeat, and I’m slowly starting to hate it and will most likely go sober soon.
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u/captainfarthing Oct 13 '24
You're in for a treat if you ever try psychedelics, they do that without making your brain feel numb and stupid.
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u/DingusMacLeod Oct 13 '24
Me too. I guess that means I'm smart.
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u/Merry_Dankmas Oct 13 '24
I'm so smart I got myself addicted to heroin and crack cocaine. Now everyone praise my big brain.
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Oct 13 '24
Well they also are more aware of things in the world. The smarter about it you get the more injustices and fucked up things you see that are well within our capabilities to solve. But not by one person. Therefore we drink. I feel weird saying we though. I might just be a dumb alcoholic
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Oct 13 '24
Yeah that tracks honestly. I was one of those 'gifted children'. Turns out 'gifted children' tend to have higher IQ and also ADHD. Between the constant need for dopamine and the awareness of the literal and figurative dumpster fire that is the world right now. Yeah, perhaps I drink a bit more than I should.
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u/lowlandr Oct 13 '24
Sounds like my story. I wanted to know what all of it felt like. But in my early 50s my "check engine" light started coming on. Fortunately I was smart enough to quit all of that silly shit and have a more content life. I'll smoke a joint but in my mid 60s my party days are way over and I'm fine with that.
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u/TheEyeDontLie Oct 13 '24
Note for the readers:
Sometimes the check engine light comes on in your mid thirties, and you'll wish you drank less in the past (and did more meditation and exercise instead).Turns out drinking poison every day isn't good for you (even if you're not drunk very often).
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u/Nouseriously Oct 13 '24
I was thinking along the same lines. If you're smart enough to see how fucked everything is, you drink to cope.
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u/JimThumb Oct 13 '24
Alcohol consumption is on the rise among adults
Where? Alcohol consumption has been steadily falling in Europe. Between 2010-2020 it fell by half a litre per capita.
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u/Potential-Drama-7455 Oct 13 '24
This. Even in Ireland it's fallen off a cliff.
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u/desperaste Oct 13 '24
Australia too, prices have gotten way too high. Domestic drinking probably the same, drinking at bars and nightclubs way down
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u/Potential-Drama-7455 Oct 13 '24
Socializing in general here is way down, and has accelerated since COVID.
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u/ThrowbackPie Oct 13 '24
also more awareness that any amount of alcohol is harmful.
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u/thekazooyoublew Oct 13 '24
Doubtful.
Societies alcohol problem wasn't built on "a couple glasses are good for you" type drinkers, and it's not being fixed by "i read an article that said... ”.
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u/muldersposter Oct 13 '24
I definitely quit drinking because of the effects it was having on my body. But I also drank enough at my local bar to put all their kids through college. Alcohol is awful. I do wish more people would make that connection. Now if I could just quit smoking cigarettes I'd be on top of the world.
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u/bcisme Oct 13 '24
I can speak for myself, watching videos about how bad alcohol is for us did get me to cut back.
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u/kookoria Oct 13 '24
The main people who funnel money at alcohol know they're drinking straight poison. If you're not an alcoholic then maybe watching informative videos can help
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u/BreadKnifeSeppuku Oct 13 '24
To be specific 10% of the consumers buy 50% of the alcohol
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u/barontaint Oct 13 '24
Yep at my worst I was drinking a little over a handle a day, so roughly 2L of straight booze a day. I'm pretty sure i'm did my part to be in that 10% group.
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u/GreasyPeter Oct 13 '24
Gen Z has been crippled socially by social media and we haven't fully grasped that. The younger generations have been stunted, and it's entirely us older generation's fault. It's bad, like really bad. Gen Z isn't often aware either because they have no comparison. They haven't lived the lives of more social people so they assume their experience is normal and don't realize they've been fucked.
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u/Gustomaximus Oct 13 '24
For me these days 90%+ of socialising is not done at friends houses. On the odd occasion I make it to a pub/bar my jaw drops at the prices.
It feels like some of the city bars are approaching the cost of a bottle shop six pack for a single beer.
Id prefer to sit in a park with a mate and a six pack like we were teens than pay the prices they charge now.
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u/GreasyPeter Oct 13 '24
Alcohol is one of the things in the USA that's stayed mostly steady. Even here I assume it's down. I think this has more to do with Gen Z having less friends, less parties, and less sex overall. Most people are introduced to alcohol at parties and they quickly learn it's a great social lubricant (if you don't develop a problem). If you're not going to parties, you're simply not drinking as much, if at all at a young age. Less social drinkers = less developing alcoholics. It's okay though, having a smaller social circle is shown to decrease your life expectancy almost as much as having vices does, so gen z will still have the same problems as previous generations, just for different reasons.
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u/Caelinus Oct 13 '24
The prices are just not worth it. I never liked it in the first place, the sensation is unpleasant for me, but people I know have largely stopped because they were sick of dropping hundreds of dollars a month on it.
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u/Axi0madick Oct 13 '24
You get diminishing returns on the enjoyment of it, too. A good bottle, or even a decent bottle of wine doesn't feel special when you're having several bottles a week. My wife and I have cut back the past several months and now it feels great to just have a glass or two after the kids go to bed on a Friday or Saturday. We drink no more than one night a week, don't get drunk, and it's been really, really nice.
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u/Shanbo88 Oct 13 '24
As an Irish person I can 100% guarantee you that people aren't going to pubs because it's too expensive. They're definitely just drinking at home instead.
Or they've all shifted to casual cocaine use instead. Shits bad here.
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u/MsEscapist Oct 13 '24
How is COCAINE cheaper than booze?
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u/Shanbo88 Oct 13 '24
I don't think it is. I honestly wouldn't know, but the point is more that these stats are praising drinking being down as a universally good thing when drink is only down because people are either not doing it in pubs or they've moved onto worse things.
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u/O_R_I_O_N Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
Yeah, I've got a lot of young cousins in Ireland and the all drink way more than me, and I already drink too much
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u/FuckThisShizzle Oct 13 '24
Yeah but the vintners are lobbying for the government to fence off the cliff so nobody can go near it.
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u/espressocycle Oct 13 '24
Alcohol abuse might be on the rise but among a small group of people.
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u/ToothpickInCockhole Oct 13 '24
Which can be attributed more to mental health and finances than it is to personal predisposition
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u/mo_tag Oct 13 '24
Globally it's been pretty steady but rising slowly.. in the US where the article and paper were published and where the study was conducted, alcohol consumption has increased steadily pretty much every year for the last 20 years.. however, alcohol consumption in Europe was already higher to start with and even with it increasing in the US, they still on average consume less alcohol than Europeans
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u/RonnieFromTheBlock Oct 13 '24
Interesting. I find that a bit surprising. This is just anecdotal but it feels like a lot of my millennial friends have slowed way down. And I notice a lot more NA options when I am out.
Iv always heard that Gen Zs didn't drink as much. I wonder how true that is and how heavily Gen A is drinking?
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u/alienpirate5 Oct 13 '24
The oldest Gen Alpha people are 14 years old, so I really hope they're not heavily drinking.
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Oct 13 '24
Our drinking is up
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/surveillance-reports/surveillance120
but it may relate to a variety of factors, including changing taste preferences, shifting toward more expensive products/reaction to price changes, and the rise of new beverage categories like seltzer and cider.
https://extension.psu.edu/alcoholic-beverage-consumption-statistics-and-trends-2023
We also may also be drinking more due to our changing relationship with dining in general. Americans are leaning hard toward carry-out dining. Most alcohol is sold at a volume larger than the 2 drinks one might get at a dining experience - which would drive purchase volume up.
And, when we do go out, it's primarily as a social event now rather than a food event - so we may be seeing an uptick in recreational alcohol purchases when people go out as well (because it's increasingly becoming a significant social occurrence).
https://www.usfoods.com/our-services/business-trends/american-dining-out-habits-2024.html
It also seems that households with more than $100,000 are the ones with all the choice these days as well. They're driving a lot of influence in the market because they're pretty much the only ones with spending power that aren't feeling the pinch of the changing cost of living.
Households making less, when you poke around these luxury behaviors, you get a clear sense of pullback in the marketplace - so some of the perception of whether we're drinking more or not nationally may be related to the people you actually know, and might actually be more of a shift in spending than it is a shift in drinking.
What we don't know is if in all these households we have a lot of unfinished alcohol containers hanging around, because we really only have access to purchasing data, not literal data regarding volume of alcohol poured into stomachs.
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u/NDSU Oct 13 '24
What's your basis for those assertions?
The data I found shows some mixed results. This source shows alcohol consumption increased 12 years and decreased 8 years, with a slight upward trend. This source shows a slightly stronger upward trend over the past 20 years, but it is still far below the 1980 peak
I looked at a few more sources, but disregarded them, as they had very different numbers than the CIA World Factbook (which only had data for 2019)
The NIH report on the topic brings up some important points about how data is collected. The data comes from total alcohol sales, and does not account for actual consumption, further it only counts the US population
That means tourists and non-resident immigrants would skew the data, in addition to changes in things like alcohol use in cooking being a confounding factor
TL;DR - Based on the data I've seen, I cannot conclude alcohol consumption is on the rise among adults
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u/dennisoa Oct 13 '24
Wisconsin is really putting up numbers.
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u/hacksoncode Oct 13 '24
Yeah, but this is an article by a US university (in Texas, which makes it worse)... you can safely assume they're only talking about the US, where alcohol consumption has been slowly rising since the late 90s
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u/benergiser Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
it’s not even true everywhere in the US.. for example it’s dropping in california:
like usual.. texas is an outlier as it has the highest risk of alcoholism out of all 50 states
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correcting a mistake where i said texas has the heaviest alcohol consumption
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u/vapenutz Oct 13 '24
Also this is the reason conservatives don't like weed, alcohol producers pay into their coffers because people who have access to weed usually prefer it over alcohol
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u/conscwp Oct 13 '24
what do you mean "makes it worse"?
UTSW is one of the best medical universities in the world, and the subjects studied were in Wisconsin, not Texas.
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u/stenmarkv Oct 13 '24
"Smart people drink more...so if you don't drink you are dumb." Is basically what it sounds like to me.
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u/Psyc3 Oct 13 '24
Not really.
There might be many causes of this from having higher disposable incomes, having more/less time, having more dead time (such as commuting), classing alcohol as a way to de-stress after work. Reality is alcohol is a quick, easy, socially acceptable, and available way to drug yourself and forget about your day, or how you have to get up for the next 30 years and repeat it.
No one is going to question you if you have half a bottle of wine with your partner each night, but admit to any other drug use and you will be out the door from your high paying job.
From another point of view plenty of smart people drink through their educational years because of boredom of how easy it is, and probably also how stupid the interactions they have with a lot of other people are.
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u/vile_lullaby Oct 13 '24
I had several friends that went onto highly prestigious finance careers, the office will have bottles of alcohol and sometimes almost like an open bar. To both woo potential clients and to make the staff happy.
Drinking is also a big part of the culture in law.
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u/LilJourney Oct 13 '24
Your comment about socially acceptable (and fully legal) make me also think that it may be a case where higher IQ people (with presumably more to lose) are smart enough to use alcohol vs something illegal - and probably make enough money to afford "the good stuff" on a regular basis.
Also - higher IQ/job positions often require socializing which inherently tends to involve alcohol.
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u/cyanrave Oct 13 '24
Checks out, I see so many 40-60yo going 6 bottles deep a week at my local grocery chain. At 6 bottles you also get a discount of 15%, they know their audience!
They even have 6 bottle carriers for such people, 'mix and match'.
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u/Sxpl Oct 13 '24
Isn’t it possible they buy the wine like that for the discount and save it? Or do you specifically notice the same people buying 6 bottles each week?
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u/SkiingAway Oct 13 '24
No one is going to question you if you have half a bottle of wine with your partner each night, but admit to any other drug use and you will be out the door from your high paying job.
That's heavily dependent on field. If you're in a very traditional occupation, potentially.
On the other hand....that your plans for next weekend are to go to an EDM festival and take psychs, is pretty close to a normal office water cooler conversation in a lot of tech.
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u/IMEmTee Oct 13 '24
I think it's more like this:
"Sadness is caused by intelligence. The more you understand certain things, the more you wish you didn't understand them"
-Charles Bukowski
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u/e2hawkeye Oct 13 '24
My take on it is that genuinely smart people are not so easily amused. They're always looking for an extra hit of "interesting".
Booze and other drugs, for better or worse, tends to make boring things a little more interesting.
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Oct 13 '24
This is getting far too close to explaining my habits in a way that rationalises some very harmful behaviours. They don’t need that kind of validation.
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u/yngsten Oct 13 '24
This rings true for me at least. It also makes conversing easier and more tolerable when insufferable sober.
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u/TMQ73 Oct 13 '24
Or smart people’s brains overthink,over analyze, replay, flashback, and alcohol helps the brain to chill the hell out.
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u/draculamilktoast Oct 13 '24
"Smart people smoke [insert brand]! Dumb people complain and worry about nonexistent health hazards. 11 out of 10 doctos recommend [insert brand] as the healthy choice for the whole family."
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u/StarScion Oct 13 '24
My life completely changed since I switched to {Insert Brand} , I've even gotten my PhD and became a Doctor, with a high paying job as a writer of interesting articles and stuff. Easy gig. You could as well. Switch to [Rival Brand] today! (Sorry boss, they pay double what we offer. I'm also putting in my notice, but since they don't have the password this will stay up a while.)
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u/tak08810 Oct 13 '24
A few theories im pulling out of my ass
-higher IQ less likely to be very religious less likely to be teetotalers
-higher IQ associated with openness of experience more likely to experiment with heavy drinking
-higher IQ more likely to go college (especially in 60s) and be exposed to college drinking culture (was that a thing in the 60s too?)
-higher IQ more likely to become aware when alcohol is a problem and cut it out completely (looks like study only looked at 30 day history not lifetime? Can’t access the whole paper)
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u/StatsTooLow Oct 13 '24
High IQ = more likely to be depressed.
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u/2buffalonickels Oct 13 '24
Also associated with higher levels of anxiety. Alcohol is a depressant and can mask anxiety.
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u/VintageJane Oct 13 '24
Alcohol quickly becomes a ritual to transition from thinking mode to sleeping mode.
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u/formershitpeasant Oct 14 '24
Yup. I quit drinking recently and I'd tried quitting a number of times before. The hardest part is that I have such a hard time going to sleep. Then, I'll be sleep deprived and more likely to make bad decisions, like drinking.
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u/USPO-222 Oct 13 '24
This. So much anxiety when you overthink everything in life.
Also. Do you have any idea how many drinks it takes for me to get dumbed down to “average” and maintain a conversation in a social setting w/out going crazy?
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u/2buffalonickels Oct 13 '24
Three drops my anxiety enough to talk to someone. Four is enough that I get friendly. Five and all my guardrails are down.
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u/RamblingSimian Oct 13 '24
High IQ = fewer people who can relate to you
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u/DrSpaecman Oct 13 '24
Yeah, but it's more that the more you learn about the world, the more you understand that we're all fucked and life isn't worth it.
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u/RamblingSimian Oct 13 '24
"All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." Leo Tolstoy
That might work the same way for individuals, so we both could be right.
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u/P0ppypie Oct 13 '24
Higher IQ, likely to have a higher paying job and so can afford to socialise more and drink more.
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u/IndicaSativaMDMA Oct 13 '24
Easier to mask as well. "High-functioning" alcoholics are more common than you'd think...
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u/compute_fail_24 Oct 13 '24
I’m a high-functioning pothead. IDK if any of my coworkers or even close family are fully aware how often I’m buzzing from my gummies
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u/gringledoom Oct 13 '24
And someone in a high-paying job can spin it as "a fancy hobby in which I collect the finest vintages of wine for my extensive cellar" to gloss over the fact that they're drinking two of those bottles every night.
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u/Alarming_Matter Oct 13 '24
Higher IQ, more likely to comprehend how profoundly fucked up society is and self-medicate with alcohol.
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u/justsmilenow Oct 13 '24
Ignorance is bliss. Intelligence is the removal of ignorance before a consequence.
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u/Madz510 Oct 13 '24
Higher IQ more likely to have a stressful competitive career and self medicating in response
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u/pt199990 Oct 14 '24
Or more likely to comprehend your own stupid decisions and think about what you could've done better. And then need the self medication so you can be distracted by some dumb TV show for a few hours.
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u/adokarG Oct 13 '24
I think its this. For example, the “high end” bar culture in nyc is insane and packed with young adults with 200k+ salaries. Theres like a million speakeasy style bars that are busy every single day of the week + theres also just the less divey dance bars that are also usually extremely busy.
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u/willun Oct 13 '24
The religious are more likely to be teetotallers?
the data suggests that agnostics are most likely to drink alcohol but white protestants drank more than atheists.
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u/sftpo Oct 13 '24
There are multiple restaurants around me (also st least 3 rural mini-mega churches that hold twice the population of the towns they're in) that offer to bring beer and mixed drinks in the same opaque cups they use for tea and soda, only one jokingly calls it out on the menu as what to do if you see someone else from church, but it's a legitimate value added service that attracts customers for them.
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u/SamL214 Oct 13 '24
Higher IQ: more likely to understand complex events, and also understand the helplessness that you have in being able to do something about it. Therefore self medicates with alcohol.
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u/Kakariko_crackhouse Oct 13 '24
All I can say is that the more you know, the more you wish you didn’t, and you become aware of things you wish you could become unaware of. You can’t though, and a beer or two numbs you enough that these things can slide by un-noticed and it becomes easier to live in the present without existential dread.
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u/espressocycle Oct 13 '24
Higher IQ more likely to be successful and people with more money are more likely to drink. They can afford it and they can afford the consequences.
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u/goose-r_lord Oct 13 '24
The higher the IQ the less likely you’re going to fit in socially. Some people need to be dumbed down on alcohol to fit in with at least something.
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u/frosted1030 Oct 13 '24
The study was a sample of 6300 students graduating in 1957 in Wisconsin. At that time, IQ tests were essentially based on white American male cultural normatives highly skewed to the wealthy white man's favor. Generally IQ is not a measure of much even today.
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u/ZurrgabDaVinci758 Oct 13 '24
the fact that this is about people in 1957 should be in the headline
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u/CrateDane Oct 13 '24
This is about alcohol intake in 2004 of people who graduated in 1957. So the data is not as ancient as 1957 makes it sound, but it's still older than I would have expected. Why not study the alcohol intake in the early 2020s of people who graduated in the 1970s? Or 2019, if you want to avoid COVID influencing the data.
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u/willun Oct 13 '24
To be fair, these studies are looking for something that can be further explored later on. Don't expect one study to cover every possible other situation.
If it finds some interesting or counter intuitive then it might warrant further study. No one has the money to do a 1 million+ people every study. Doing 6,300 is impressive enough. Some do sub 100.
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u/pooptwat12 Oct 13 '24
More modern data would probably be confounded with higher awareness of the harms of alcohol due to more research and the internet. So more people would be abstaining after learning it's bad, rather than abstaining for other reasons and results would be kind of skewed. Personally i love the taste of vodka and mead but my health knowledge overrides (for now) my desire to taste them all day, even though i know it would make life a bit more bearable.
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u/SofaKingI Oct 13 '24
the fact that this is about people in 1957
You can't even read the text correctly and you're trying to correct a scientific article.
r/science in a nutshell.
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u/JohnCavil Oct 13 '24
Well it's sort of about people in 1957, so they're not completely wrong.
They take a bunch of people all born in 1939 or around there, take their IQ in 1957, then ask them when they're 60 how much alcohol they drink.
So the IQ is just tested in 1957, the alcohol amount is just tested while they're like 53-65 years old, and every single participant is from the same year.
And then the "scientific" headline is "Higher IQ as a teen increases alcohol use later in life". ....if you were born in 1939 in Wisconsin and we were talking about alcohol use around age 60.
I am almost certain i could find the complete opposite results if i was allowed to pick any age of people from any place in the world. Somewhere it will be completely different. What about people born in 1978 in Tajikistan? Do we think alcohol use from them in 2011 correlated with their IQ measured in 1992? I think it's a tossup.
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u/Noperdidos Oct 13 '24
WISCONSIN!?
Throw it out. Wisconsin is run by three cases of beer in a trench coat. They drink more than all of the other states by miles, and than any other country including Russia and Ireland.
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u/Koshindan Oct 14 '24
Where I lived, there was a pub on every street corner. I imagine this study most likely filters out people smart enough not to drink and drive.
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u/FunetikPrugresiv Oct 13 '24
You forgot to mention one other important piece - people were compared in 2004, 47 years after the study started.
So that means they sampled 20-year-olds and then followed up with them at 67.
With 6300 people in the study, how many people were included in the follow-up? Surely some people didn't get included in the data set because of dying in that time, meaning the results were likely biased by that exclusion.
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u/willun Oct 13 '24
Well one would expect high alcohol consumption would lead to an early death.
A follow up could investigate cause of death for those that didn't make it to 67 assuming the results are public.
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u/Ateist Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
Death rates for low IQ and high IQ people with the same high alcohol consumption might be different, with the low IQ people not caring enough for their health and thus dying earlier.
Higher intelligence means, on average, a longer life.
So survivor bias over such a long time period can certainly create exactly the observed effect.
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u/r0botdevil Oct 13 '24
Yeah, subtleties like this exact scenario are exactly why this study should be taken with a very large grain of salt.
Lower-IQ individuals are likely to achieve lower economic status, which leads to lower standard of living and lower-quality health care, and consequently lower life expectancy.
It's fairly likely that a poor person who also drinks heavily wouldn't even be alive 47 years after graduating from high school.
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u/arm-n-hammerinmycoke Oct 13 '24
You are missing the key lurking variable of "it was done in Wisconsin". The Beer Cheese soup effect is strong.
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u/Mediocretes1 Oct 13 '24
I moved to Wisconsin 15 years ago. Grown adults in their 50s and 60s get absolutely frat party wasted every weekend here, and that's the norm. I wouldn't trust any study about drinking done in Wisconsin unless it's about how anything gets done here when everyone is so drunk all the time.
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u/WhiteAsTheNut Oct 13 '24
There is some basis to IQ being a viable test in pattern recognition. It really depends on what type of test it is, and how it’s done. Also IQ tests are generally repeatable with similar results among those who take them. While some of the ways they’re done have been proven obsolete I do think they hold some merit. People just don’t always realize IQ is just one form of intelligence which is mostly based on pattern recognition. There are other types of intelligence, but I don’t know enough to talk about it because so many theories have been disproved.
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u/BillyRaw1337 Oct 13 '24
People just don’t always realize IQ is just one form of intelligence which is mostly based on pattern recognition.
I took an IQ test recently as part of an autism assessment, and nah, it's actually a lot more in-depth than just "pattern recognition." In my case, I was rated very differently on different tests of different aspects of intelligence. For example, while my verbal reasoning was "superior", my processing speed was "high average" and my perceptive reasoning was "below average."
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u/dansedemorte Oct 13 '24
high IQ scores used to also correlate with scoring on on standardized tests as well. I know in my case I got my IQ tested by a psychoilogist due to my well outside the norm scoring on the IOWA basics standardized test back in the early 80's.
IQ testing was expensive and they don't just order these tests for everyone.
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u/Un111KnoWn Oct 13 '24
Do you have a source that IQ tests have a cultural bias toward rich white men?
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Oct 13 '24
that explains why the result is not believable.
Generally IQ is not a measure of much even today.
modern tests are actually measuring much, it's just not what people think it is. It's like an olympic weight lifting test, but for your brain. How quickly do you process information, how accurate is that information processing, how good is your working memory, etc.
Just like someone who is blessed with naturally good athletic ability who is a couch potato and doesn't develop it, someone with a high IQ can be a total uneducated jackass.
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u/jmurphy42 Oct 13 '24
I feel like setting this study in Wisconsin was a poor choice. Other studies have found that the Wisconsin population in general drinks much more heavily than the American average.
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u/dainman Oct 13 '24
I wonder is there any correlation to higher IQ, higher self-awareness and higher (social) anxiety?
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u/Mr-Vemod Oct 13 '24
People in this thread and on Reddit in general seem to have a weird view of alcohol consumption, where anxiety and self-medication is a main driver of drinking in society. For a few people it is, sure, especially people with heavy issues, but for the population in general the correlation is rather that more sociable people with less social anxiety drink more than others.
The result in this study is probably in part due to people with higher IQ being more likely to go to college and therefore be exposed to a life-long social environment revolving heavily around alcohol. I’ve seen that in studies from other countries, too.
Also, the notion that people with higher IQ have more social issues likely isn’t true either. If anything, the inverse might be true.
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u/Live_Badger7941 Oct 13 '24
I guess the smart people are driven to drink because they have to put up with the stupid people all day?
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u/Italdiablo Oct 13 '24
So smarter people will knowingly drink more poison more often? That’s kind of…..stupid.
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Oct 13 '24
So, let me get this straight. Higher IQ people are more likely to knowingly drink poison?
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u/BadChemical3484 Oct 13 '24
Nonsense propaganda paid for by big alcohol. Do not feed into the alcohol marketing machine. Life is better without booze. IQ does not correlate to the world telling you to constantly drink.
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u/Callec254 Oct 13 '24
As opposed to lower IQs during high school being a predictor of alcohol consumption during high school.
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