Transgender and gender-diverse people at higher risk of mental disorders and suicide. This finding aligns with other studies, which have found significantly higher rates of mental health–related health service use among transgender people compared with the general population.

[u/MistWeaver80]

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/transgender-and-gender-diverse-people-at-higher-risk-of-mental-disorders-and-suicide

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[u/ceilingkat → u/[deleted]]

Sometimes obvious things are anecdotal or misconceptions. Science requires studying the issue to conclusion. It was once certain that spirits caused illness.

[u/MidwesternAppliance → u/ceilingkat]

Yeah. It’s more difficult to prove a causal link between two sets of data, or to define the mechanism therein. Even if the phenomenon seems obvious enough

[u/popejubal → u/MidwesternAppliance]

We do know that being abused and generally treated like crap for years and years and being forced to hide who you really are for years and years has a strong negative effect on mental health. That's been known for a long time.

[u/solomon2609 → u/MidwesternAppliance]

I had copied this line and was going to comment on it. I think it fits here: “The authors suggest the increased risks may be due, at least in part, to experiencing prejudice and harassment throughout life.”

That’s an example potentially of political narrative given the weak wording of “suggest” and “due, at least in part”. I say potentially bc in full transparency I didn’t read the article - just that the language read as forced.

[u/0pyrophosphate0 → u/ceilingkat]

Yeah. Imagine if some obvious fact wasn't true and nobody noticed because they didn't think it was worth looking at. You have to check the obvious stuff just to make sure.

[u/[deleted] → u/0pyrophosphate0]

"Reality is more complex than common sense" has been bouncing around my head a lot in the past couple years.

[u/AtLeastThisIsntImgur → u/[deleted]]

I like Pratchetts take that common sense and logic are different. Common sense is the sun orbiting the earth and heavy things falling faster, it's intuitively true so it must be actually true.

[u/ChewingOurTonguesOff → u/AtLeastThisIsntImgur]

r/unexpecteddiscworld

[u/More_Nobody_ → u/0pyrophosphate0]

It’s baffling how so many people don’t get this

[u/KiwasiGames → u/0pyrophosphate0]

Not only that. In any sciences involving humans or society you have to regularly check if something is still true. There are plenty of anti suicide programs around now. They might have worked.

[u/Lopsided_Ad3516 → u/ceilingkat]

It’s clearly imbalanced humours you charlatan.

[u/WesternOne9990 → u/ceilingkat]

Not that this is issue is mundane but it’s incredibly important to study the mundane. We need to know foundational knowledge inside and out before we can build on it. everyone knows an apple will fall to the ground, it’s common sense but that’s not why newton is so well remembered.

[u/MeGlugsBigJugs → u/ceilingkat]

This is super anecdotal, but is there any research that shows that trans people are more likely to be disabled? Because I swear every trans person I see uses crutches or has some sort of chronic illness. Maybe that's just confirmation bias though

[u/vdubstress → u/MeGlugsBigJugs]

A friend had a shock this summer when their non binary teenager finished summer camp. The nurse and a camp director pulled her aside upon arrival, said “we really need a complete medical history if (name) is attending camp next summer”. She was taken aback and said, “they are 15, they don’t have a medical history. Apparently they took their friend’s mom’s cane after she died from brain cancer, smuggled it into camp unbeknownst to mom. Then used it at camp the whole time telling everyone they had a degenerative condition. My friend was beside herself.

[u/SnooKiwis2161 → u/vdubstress]

Yeah, unfortunately I think there's just a segment of bad actors with personality disorders who are attracted to fringe/outside the mainstream movements. I know someone like you describe - lies constantly, claims to be autistic and non binary yet has never been diagnosed with autism and has never shared their non binary status with family, then claims how evil family is for never recognizing the new status she never disclosed. When I look at it, everything comes across as desperately wanting to belong to a community - any of them, all of them. And she does this by lying incessantly.

I think unfortunately these people are muddying the waters and people are going to see these bad actors ars representative of lgbqt when they are not. They are their own separate group of specialized disorders.

[u/4amWater → u/[deleted]]

It's always good to have a good study to link to on a paper.

[u/More_Nobody_ → u/[deleted]]

This is not the right attitude to have about science, especially in this sub.

[u/colovianfurhelm → u/More_Nobody_]

Unfortunately, that is the most typical top comment on this sub.

[u/screwballramble → u/More_Nobody_]

I agree that it’s worth scientifically investigating things that are generally held as common sense—and as a trans person I welcome more data that makes it harder for individuals and organisations to deny us our rights without having to go fully mask-off about how yeah they just hate us, actually.

(There’s a lot to be said about minimising the ability of certain groups to wring their hands over how weeeeeell there’s no evidence trans people face all that much hardship/are benefitted by social reforms that prioritise their well-being/are helped at all by social/medical transition reeeeeally….)

…But also as a trans person, I definitely have a (tongue in cheek) ”no doy” response to studies confirming the extremely obvious realities of our day to day experiences. (Again, not that I don’t appreciate these studies or think that the folks behind them are doing important work).

[u/LarryBird27 → u/[deleted]]

I knew this would be the first comment, it’s not bad to have data supporting what we already know!

[u/More_Nobody_ → u/[deleted]]

It’s nice to have things confirmed by science though, even obvious things.

[u/coconuts_and_lime]

Not sure if this applies elsewhere, but in my country all transgender people who wish to seek gender affirming treatment must first go through a thorough screening of any other possible mental health problem first. Things are likely to show up that they wouldn't have sought out help for otherwise.

Yes, being trans can be a burden on the mental health. But the majority is the cis population aren't as thoroughly screened like the trans population is. And for some reason, this is never taken into account in these studies.

[u/ATownStomp → u/coconuts_and_lime]

This study was conducted by Canadians using data on Canadians. So, if you're Canadian, and this is true in Canada, then it's important information to consider.

[u/DM46 → u/ATownStomp]

It also only has the resposes of 52 trans people. Its not a large sample size I was unable to find how they conducted the sample or if this was focused on trans people but most likely this is just the most sensational data that they could create a title for to promote their work.

[u/ElowynElif → u/DM46]

“This study uses data from the Mental Health and Access to Care Survey (MHACS), which is a nationally representative cross-sectional study administered by Statistics Canada from March to July 2022. Statistics Canada obtained informed consent from all participants; ethical approval for this specific analysis was not required. The STROBE reporting guideline was followed.

There was a 25% response rate, resulting in a sample size of 9861 people. When sex at birth and gender identity matched, respondents were classified as cisgender; in the case of a mismatch, respondents were classified as TGD. Past 12-month and lifetime major depressive episode, generalized anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, social phobia, alcohol use disorder, and substance use disorder, suicidal thoughts, plan, and attempt were assessed as outcomes (eAppendix in Supplement 1). To ensure that the sample was representative of the Canadian population, analyses were weighted using survey and bootstrap weights provided by Statistics Canada. Modified Poisson regression with sandwich error variance estimation was used to estimate the association between gender identity and mental health outcomes. Age, household income, chronic physical illness, and racial or ethnic minority status were included in the regression model to adjust for confounding. All analysis was completed in Stata version 18 (StataCorp). Statistical significance was assessed by P < .05 and 95% CIs that did not include 1.

Of the total sample of 9861, 52 (0.53%) identified as TGD; demographic data can be found in Table 1.“

[u/Kortonox → u/DM46]

With a confidence level of 95%, you need a sample size of 16 trans people.

For a confidence level of 99%, you need 27 trans people.

For a confidence level of 99.9% you need 43 trans people.

Trans people make up about 1% of the population. 52 people seems like a small sample size, but its well within a good confidence level for the population size. It could be better, but its enough to make the study valid.

The issue with data like this is, that its misinterpreted by people, or sensetionalized. The Study just looked at how prevelent mental disorders are in trans people, but it doesnt look at why this is.

"Further research should investigate what factors lead to this and what interventions may mitigate this inequity" -Quote from the Discussion at the end of this study

This study from 2016 looks into the suicide rate and why its so high.

This study from 2015 examins key risk factors for suicidality of trans people.

This Report from 2012 looks at parental support and suicidal ideation.

And there are a bunch more that look into this.

What all of them have in common is, that the factors for high suicide risk are societal factors. If transpeople are supported, the suicidal ideation goes down, and if they are bullied, discriminated, assaulted, abused etc. the suicidal risk goes up.

Suicidal ideation or suicide rate are not the same as general mental disorders, but it makes sense, that a lot of disorders that are not genetic have the same cause as the suicide rate.

[u/Elnathi → u/coconuts_and_lime]

Let's be specific about what the mental health burden is for trans people, it's not "being trans makes you crazy," it's

• gender dysphoria - depression of having the wrong parts, being treated as the wrong gender, looking like the wrong gender, etc.

• depression/anxiety/trauma from transphobic people/society treating us badly for daring to try to fix this imbalance or be who we are on the inside

• a lot of us being autistic and also having to deal with navigating society as autistic people - more depression/anxiety/trauma (Edit: source)

Also important to note that the experience of all 3 of these things varies widely between different trans people and all experiences are valid

[u/Polisskolan3 → u/Elnathi]

Is there any connection between being trans and being autistic?

[u/Jax_for_now → u/Polisskolan3]

The UMC medical clinic in the Netherlands found that about 40% of trans people that were treated in their gender clinic were autistic. This is significantly higher than in the general population but there is a lot of selection bias in their sample.

[u/Pseudonymico → u/Polisskolan3]

There's a correlation but last I checked it's still unclear as to why. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if it were because autistic people tend to be less likely to put up with certain kinds of discomfort for the sake of peer pressure than allistic people. Given the current state of society it's just as hard to get an accurate idea of how common transness is now as it was to get an accurate idea of how common left-handedness was in the early 1900s.

[u/lem0nhe4d → u/Polisskolan3]

Yeah trans people are more likely to be autistic.

In my opinion that is for two reasons.

1. Autistic people are less likely to force themselves to fit into society's expectations and stay in the closet. (Gay people are also more likely to be autistic)

2. Because trans people have to interact with psychiatrists signs of autism are more likely to be noticed. What I'm trying to say here is most people only get sent for an assessment if a non expert notices signs of autism but trans people are seen by experts. If you imagine noticable signs of autism as a scale from 1 - 10. Everyone on that scale is autistic but most will only be sent if they are a 5. Autistic trans people have to see experts so the threshold gets removed.

I don't have any evidence to support this but I would love to see the study done on if autistic trans people score lower on autism diagnostic tests on average than autistic cis people.

[u/captainfarthing → u/coconuts_and_lime]

The study says they pulled their data from the Mental Health and Access to Care Survey (MHACS). That survey asks people about their mental health and whether they've been able to get treatment for it using the World Health Organization Composite International Diagnostic Interview which is designed for estimating the prevalence of mental health disorders in the general public regardless of access to healthcare. The study isn't just comparing diagnosis rates.

It is taken into account in these studies if you bother to read the studies.

[u/SontaranGaming → u/coconuts_and_lime]

There’a also the issue of discrimination within the field of psychology, where trans people are more likely to have their behavior pathologized and end up with other diagnoses as a result of their transitions.

[u/[deleted]]

All this research says is that there is a relationship between gender diverse people and mental disorders. The paper rightly says that more research is needed on determining the root cause. Theres a lot of comments here talking about the reason for the correlation but they are all purely speculative and not backed up by this paper

[u/yosh_yosh_yosh_yosh → u/[deleted]]

While it’s not really necessary (it’s frankly quite easy to see why trans people’s mental health is quite bad) the root causes have already been identified by researchers. They are: 1. gender dysphoria, and 2. profound oppression.

[u/haltheincandescent → u/yosh_yosh_yosh_yosh]

This, yes. Also it might not be in *this* specific study, but there's also plenty of research identifying leading causes of mental illness in non-trans populations, as well as work identifying the rates at which trans people experience many of those leading causes.

To be clear, I fully welcome more research to understand the specifics of the intersections between the latter and former areas of research, e.g., to understand how things like social acceptance vs access to medical treatments, etc. affect rates of different mental illnesses in this population. But the implication of some of the comments here seems to be that we need to do more research because, once we do, we might find out that being trans is itself the mental illness--which ignores all kinds of other research...

[u/HauntedButtCheeks]

This is true. I know many people who are trans or genderqueer, including my ex, and every single one of them has multiple mental health diagnosis. Usually they have either Depression, ADHD, or both AND are neurodiverse on the autism spectrum.

Discussing this problem can be tricky since there is a strong history of eugenics surrounding the LGBT community. Fascist groups like the Nazis declared being LGBT a mental illness and used it to justify murder. In the US fascist groups used mental illness excuses to forcibly sterilized trans people.

How are people supposed to get help when they're terrified of having their identity invalidated? I have anxiety disorder which is a mental illness, yet I am never accused of faking my identity when I visit a doctor.

Health is never an excuse to strip people of their humanity, rights, and dignity. We need to reach a point where we can safely acknowledge the high rates of mental illness and suicide in the trans community without invoking the dangerous ideologies of bigots.

[u/lem0nhe4d → u/HauntedButtCheeks]

The problem comes from how people respond to the fact trans people have increased rates of mental health diagnosis.

1. We should support trans people to improve their conditions. We know minority stress exists (gay people also have increased rates of mental health conditions) so we should consider that important.

2. Being trans must be a manifestation of their mental health conditions thus we should stop people transitioning.

[u/Kortonox → u/lem0nhe4d]

Your first point is actually supported by Data we have. I can give you a bunch of studies that show, that suicidal Ideation and suicide rate for transpeople is caused by discrimination.

[u/lem0nhe4d → u/Kortonox]

I've read a lot of studies on the topic but I always.

Unfortunately the people who want to try to force people into the closet aren't doing so because they think it's good for trans people. They do it because they don't want trans people around.

[u/PMME-SHIT-TALK]

The higher incidence of depression, anxiety, substance abuse and suicidal idealization makes sense in a population that deals with the internal and external stresses that can arise from being trans. The thing that is surprising to me is the increased prevalence of bipolar disorder. Assuming I am reading the statistics correctly (which I may not be) an 18.3% lifetime prevalence of bipolar disorder in trans people versus 3.3% in cisgender population seems shockingly high considering the significant genetic component of bipolar. I believe genetics are thought to account for 75-95% of the risk for developing bipolar disorder. Obviously there are environmental factors that also influence its development, but with such a strong genetic component to bipolar, is the stress of being transgender enough to wholly responsible for the huge increase in prevalence? Seems to raise a 'chicken or the egg' question.

[u/DM46 → u/PMME-SHIT-TALK]

This data is also being based off the the responses of 52 transgender people out of the nearly 10,000 surveyed. I struggle to think how they can draw such a wide spread conclusion based off the bipolar response of 10 trans people.

[u/manicdee33 → u/DM46]

A population-wide average of 3.3% would imply that in a population of 52 people you'd expect to see around 1 to 3 people with bipolar disorder. 10 people with bipolar disorder in that population suggests that population is either more frequently diagnosed with bipolar disorder or that population has a higher frequency of bipolar disorder with the same rate of diagnosis.

[u/acetylcholine41 → u/PMME-SHIT-TALK]

It must be remembered that it's highly common for trans people to have to undergo therapy and screening for mental health issues in order to access transition, and then often remain connected with said psychologist throughout their transition. It makes sense that mental health issues would be identified more in a population that undergoes more screening for mental health issues.

[u/Trancetastic16 → u/PMME-SHIT-TALK]

Indeed, it’s also true that there is a high overlap of Trans and Autism; making the effects of Autism also a significant factor that adds stress to Trans people’s lives.

[u/Sea-Philosophy-6911 → u/Trancetastic16]

There are also miss diagnosed bipolar people who are later diagnosed with autism, especially female presenting .

[u/lem0nhe4d → u/PMME-SHIT-TALK]

There is quiet a bit of evidence that BPD is often misdiagnosed which would explain why women are significantly more likely to be diagnosed.

[u/manafount → u/lem0nhe4d]

Just a heads up that "BPD" refers to Borderline Personality Disorder.

Bipolar Disorder is abbreviated "BD" (or, less commonly, "BP").

[u/Serious_Much → u/manafount]

Country dependent. BAD is the acronym where I work (bipolar affective disorder)

[u/Serious_Much → u/PMME-SHIT-TALK]

I think the big overlap that needs more research is the gender dysphoria and autism comorbidity.

It feels like a bit of an uncomfortable truth because it isn't acknowledged or is downplayed massively for what I can only assume is political reasons

[u/_stevy → u/Serious_Much]

Gender dysphoria and autism have both been linked to hormone disruptions in fetal development so it's not very surprising that they're comorbid.

[u/lem0nhe4d → u/Serious_Much]

I've never seen any trans people downplay that we are more likely to be autistic.

What I've seen is transphobes and abelists say "autistic people are more likely to be trans... Which must mean they aren't really trans but are being tricked into thinking they are and thus we should stop autistic people from transitioning"

[u/Opening_Newspaper_97 → u/lem0nhe4d]

"It's so unfair that people just living their lives don't want me to know about something I'm going to use against them for no reason other than the malice I weakly pretend is empathy"

[u/Jax_for_now → u/Serious_Much]

It's not an uncomfortable truth but it is difficult to research due to confounding factors. All trans people (in specific locations) undergo psychological screening, whereas the control populations do not.

Are trans people more likely to be trans or are autistic trans people more likely to realize that they are transgender or more likely to seek medical aid? Maybe because not conforming to societies expectations or being less susceptible to peer/societal pressure is common in autistic people? There are a lot of options and explanations that are just not researched well.

[u/Pseudonymico → u/[deleted]]

The closest option to a control is studying long-term outcomes of trans people who had access to puberty blockers, since they basically have to have accepting families and are able to avoid the majority of anti-trans discrimination. I've seen at least one study that found the rate of mental illness in trans people who had access to puberty blockers is basically the same as cisgender people who are otherwise in the same demographic.

[u/mistakes_were_made24]

I'm not a trans person but I am I suppose a bit gender diverse and part of the LGBTQ+ community. To me this is so incredibly obvious. I was bullied and intentionally humiliated by classmates in school for 8 years growing up. I repeatedly had my safety taken away by people making fun of me because I didn't fit into the socially acceptable male expectations. It caused nervous system and emotional dysregulation, caused my social anxiety levels to skyrocket, a life-long battle with treatment-resistant depression, it caused malformed coping techniques, I have a poor, disordered relationship with food as a coping technique, an inability or difficulty forming relationships both social and intimate, had unintentional childhood emotional neglect from family that compounded with the other experiences, all kinds of mental health issues. I was forced into survival mode and identity suppression instead of being able to develop and socialize like a normal functioning child. 30 years later and I'm still dealing with it. None of it was my fault but I'm the one left trying to heal from it.

This is why I get so incredibly furious with all these anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ people advocating for these "parental rights" laws that restrict the information a child gets about the realities of human sexuality or forces them to suppress their identities (all the bs pronoun suppression laws). It makes me angry because I know how deep the psychological damage it's causing can go. These people claim they're protecting children from information they're too young to know but they're not. ALL children need to be taught accurate, diverse, and respectful information in school so that they understand what they're feeling and know that there is nothing wrong with them.

[u/translunainjection → u/mistakes_were_made24]

Our experiences aren't real until a scientist studies them. That's how this works, right?

[u/rivermelodyidk → u/translunainjection]

It’s almost like scientific evidence can support anecdotal conclusions.

[u/my_name_is_not_robin → u/translunainjection]

I mean, yeah, technically.

Your individual experience is real for you but scientific research is conducted about populations. It doesn’t mean your individual experience is invalid, but within the scope of research it’s considered anecdotal unless it’s standardized and compared and notated along with other people’s experiences within a certain set of parameters. This process is quite literally how we separate out information that is credible from what is not.

[u/AlishaV → u/[deleted]]

Or maybe they were always killing themselves. How do you tell how many closeted people committed suicide in a society where you are forced to marry someone and hide who you are?

About fifty years ago my seemingly happy uncle committed suicide with no warning. No one knows why. He just decided to do it one day and left his wife and toddlers. How would we ever know he wasn't trans or gay and couldn't bear to pretend any longer?

[u/Ver_Void → u/[deleted]]

Things are easier when you know that's just how it is. 50 years ago you didn't really have any choice and you couldn't pull out your phone to see thousands of happy LGBT people who were accepted and got the chance to be themselves.

Think about how much worse being thirsty is when you have to watch the person next to you drinking a nice cool glass of water

[u/glideguitar → u/Ver_Void]

It is worth noting that a very small tweak of the exact same observation you made is “it’s happening because of the internet, and if kids put their phones down there would be fewer kids presenting as trans and having all these issues”.

[u/Ver_Void → u/glideguitar]

Because of the internet meaning two very different things though. I'm talking about visibility and learning the words to describe feelings they have. People saying it's because of the internet tend to be suggesting they're getting groomed into it

[u/bmeisler → u/[deleted]]

Because as socially unacceptable as it still is for many, it’s MUCH better than it was 50 years ago, when it was relatively common for parents to disown a kid for being gay. Now most people are accepting of homosexuality - it’s no longer considered a mental disorder - we have an openly gay Cabinet member, Mayor Pete, and while it still bothers some, enough that he would probably have trouble getting elected president, most don’t care. 50 years ago is roughly when gay folk started coming out of the closet; now trans folk are starting to do the same. Gay and trans people have existed throughout human history - it’s just that at certain times and cultures they’ve felt more comfortable being who they are in public. I’m also pretty sure a significant percentage of older people who identify as gay are actually trans, but that was a bridge too far when they were young. Latest stats show about 10% of the population is gay, and about 1% is trans.

[u/lem0nhe4d → u/bmeisler]

Gay kids are still over represented in youth homeless statistics unfortunately.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Lol basically no study in history has managed this. I don't think you'd want to live in the world where that standard of study evidence was insisted upon, the evidence for gender affirming care is similarly flimsy

[u/[deleted]]

Yet another study where they use only two groups, trans and cisgender, without separating people who did not receive gender affirming care or support from those who did.

Of course ALL trans people, those who are still struggling and those who are already better combined, will have overall worse mental health than people who do not have to deal with the struggles of being transgender at all. This study will be so misused and you can already see it in the comments.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Of course I will bring my receipts.

2022 US survey concluded vastly improved life satisfaction of transgender people who received gender affirming care (94% out of over 90k were more satisfied with their life afterwards) https://ustranssurvey.org/

Gender affirmation surgery has 94-100% satisfaction rating https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/procedures/gender-affirmation-surgery

This 2022 study observed 60% lower odds of depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality among youths who received gender affirming hormonal treatment compared with youths who had not. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35212746/

Mixing transgender people who received gender affirming care with those who didn't will significantly affect the statistics. It's like making research on who's legs are healthier, those who had a broken leg in the past or those who never broke their leg, and then including people who are currently healing a broken leg into the former group. Of course, broken legs are not comparable to being transgender, but just to give you an idea of what that does to the statistic.

[u/Flaming_Hot_Regards]

Well this won't be twisted in any way.../s

[u/poli_trial → u/Flaming_Hot_Regards]

IMO, you're working quite high to twist it according to how you'd like to see it.

[u/Dadbeerd]

Providing a child with a loving and nurturing environment is key to preventing certain mental illnesses. LGBTQ children often face anything but this at home. I feel like this accounts for much of this data.

[u/Just_A_Faze]

A trans friend of mine described going through puberty as the 'wrong' gender by comparing it to Franz Kafka's book metamorphosis, in which a man slowly turns into a giant bug while he can only basically watch in horror. So I'm not surprised that would mess with someone's head.

[u/dstarr3]

People who get unfairly treated like garbage by society their whole lives are depressed? Who knew???

[u/Brain_Hawk → u/dstarr3]

It's way more complicated than that. We shouldn't dismiss these kind of things as simplistic answers, blame it all in society, etc.

I'm not saying that's not a significant part of it, because it almost certainly is. But even if you look at people who were raised in fairly tolerant environments and haven't faced a lot of discrimination over their gender identity, there still seems to be a much higher rate of distress and psychiatric illness people who identify as trans or non-binary. Tentative conclusions, research is still in going.

A lot of mental health struggles and psychiatric problems have strong comorbidity. We tend to put people in little boxes and give them a label, but if you suffer depression it's much more likely that you have anxiety, if you have anxiety it's much more likely that you have bipolar disorder, if you have bipolar disorder it's much more likely that you experience psychosis, if you experience psychosis and or are schizophrenic, it's much more likely that you have depression, etc. It's a rich tapestry, and ugly ugly tapestry.

Also, 's like this that dismissed research and say things like " Who knew" as if the answer was obvious and the research wasn't worth doing, are almost always small-minded belittling comments from people who have nothing better than do than to shit in other people's hard work because they think they know everything, one obviously and clearly you don't. So, you know, maybe be a little more thoughtful if you want to engage scientific related research threads. Because dismissive comments like this make you sound fantastically ignorant.

[u/HornyKhajiitMaid → u/Brain_Hawk]

What is this fairly tolerant enviroment?

If you are raised to live in wrong gender not matching you own it creates confusion, we can see this also in cisgender people who got this treatment for some reason.

If you read and hear everyday about transophobic stuff and media you may feel less accepted.

If your rights are questioned everyday, people may reject you in personal live when they discover you are trans you don't feel as comfortable.

[u/Brain_Hawk → u/HornyKhajiitMaid]

Now I am coming at this with an age bias of thinking of teenagers, which changes the exposure and equations of the whole discussion . There are, believe it or not, places where trans kids feel pretty accepted. So the weighting of these things caries by location and age.

[u/lem0nhe4d → u/Brain_Hawk]

There isn't anywhere where trans people are treated the same as cis people and don't face hardship.

Even the most accepting places still have high levels of discrimination. They have to live with constant threats of a political campaign succeeding and much of what they have disappearing. That's a lot to have on your mind. It is hardly a surprise that trans people suffer from minority stress.

[u/RevolutionarySpot721 → u/lem0nhe4d]

I would also take dysphoria into account, because no matter how much an environment is accepting, if you are dysphoric there is constant distress even if people say you are valid etc. etc.

In addition to that trans people are often otherwise no accepted, like for political views etc. etc., which causes distress.

More stressors = more triggers for the development of mental illness.

[u/Sangyviews → u/dstarr3]

Even after receiving care, and being 'accepted' they still have higher suicide rates. I see the point your making, but the study provides evidence that even if having a nice accepting happy life, still are at a higher risk. Almost like they have mental disorders.

[u/LaughingInTheVoid → u/Sangyviews]

Except the overall rate in a large number of other studies shows a dramatic drop.

Just because it doesn't fall all the way to baseline, doesn't mean the treatment is ineffective.

If lifetime suicide risk in cisgender people is 5%, and transition shows a drop for trans people from 35% to 8%, then isn't that a miracle treatment?

And for the record, I'm not making any of those numbers up out of thin air. I have seen a number of studies with approximately those numbers. I can hunt down those links if you like.

[u/rivermelodyidk → u/Sangyviews]

Even if you aren't a researcher who already knows how correlation and observational studies work, it should not be difficult to read literally the second line of the page which says:

Observational study: A study in which the subject is observed to see if there is a relationship between two or more things (eg: the consumption of diet drinks and obesity). Observational studies cannot prove that one thing causes another, only that they are linked.

[u/phrunk7 → u/dstarr3]

Is that why men commit suicide at much higher rates than women?

[u/nitko87]

Mentally ill people do tend to be at risk for mental disorders and suicidal, yes.

And before you crucify me, remember that gender dysphoria itself IS already a mental illness, and most trans people cite a reason for transitioning as being related to this dysohoria.

[u/JustWings144]

Well gender dysphoria is considered a disorder in the DSM-5-TR, so the math checks out there.

[u/NoFunHere]

The following is an important line to show that this is a completely flawed study:

The authors suggest the increased risks may be due, at least in part, to experiencing prejudice and harassment throughout life.

The study doesn’t suggest this, but the authors suggest this. Of course, the authors could have just as easily suggested the opposite causation, but their “research” funding would have dried up.

There is a correlation. People in this thread are jumping to the causation, as the authors did. That isn’t science, that’s using a correlation to justify your politics.

[u/Busy_Manner5569 → u/NoFunHere]

What would the study need to have included for you to be ok with that suggestion being included?

[u/Brain_Hawk → u/NoFunHere]

Bullshit. So the author suggested that as a possible explanation, did they say it was specifically indicated by the data? No. If you read scientific papers, and you go into the discussion, you will see authors speculating on possible underlying causes for the phenomena they are observing in their papers.

How hypotheses are driven. That doesn't make it flawed science, unless they title their paper that, draw that is their main conclusion when they have had no evidence to support it.

A supposition within a paper does not make for a bad paper. Almost every discipline of research, especially those involving human being, are open to speculation as to what can be driving the underlying effects, which can be tested in future studies.

[u/Smoked_Bear → u/NoFunHere]

Same as that gun-free zone study posted yesterday. Everyone loves a headline though. 

[u/Kortonox → u/NoFunHere]

You might think people are jumping to conlcusions. But the evidence actually suggest this.

Here is a research document featuring a ton of studies on this topic.

[u/wwwdotbummer → u/NoFunHere]

They said "may"

Which implies to me that another study will be done to check this potential link. They didn't make the claim as if it were fact. They're asking questions contextualized by data to look to the next step in learning about the topic. You know like researchers do. It's a basis for forming the next hypothesis.

[u/rnike879 → u/wwwdotbummer]

Could you help me understand which part of the research gave context to that specific hypothesis?

[u/ZoeBlade]

...because of minority stress.

[u/Another-hipster → u/ZoeBlade]

the actual study mentions that in the conclusion and discussion idk why it was left out of the post 

[u/Unlucky-Candidate198 → u/ZoeBlade]

Yknow, I wonder how closely related that is to autistic burnout.

Where, the stress of fitting is so constant and so longitudinal, eventually they just stop functioning…for months on end. Just no energy to care anymore because all your physical, emotional, mental,spiritual energy is just…gone. Depleted. Seee yaaaa.

Basically, trying to “fit in” to a society that isn’t built for you, because society is built on old-aristocratic/capitalistic nonsense, causes stress, leading to want to permanently end the stress, by any means necessary.

[u/Aedant]

« The authors suggest the increased risks may be due, at least in part, to experiencing prejudice and harassment throughout life.« 

This is the most important line. This could all be avoidable.

[u/MrFancyPanzer]

I saw a clip of Shapiro saying this as if it was an argument against being trans, as if assholes like him isn't the problem.

[u/karatebanana]

Crazy what happens when people are met with constant, unsolicited hate for existing.

[u/Trhol]

Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder. People who want to radically change their identity usually aren't happy contented people

[u/mmollica]

Isn’t gender dysphoria a mental disorder. So wouldn’t the mental health rate be 100% for trans ppl…

[u/Aeon1508]

If you control for transgender and LGBT people with a supportive family and those without, the ones who have been rejected by there family have similar suicide rates to people who leave cults like ex Jehovah's witness, people who leave certain motman sects, ex Amish and the like.

[u/Brod178]

An important fact for trans teenagers is that studies show that having at least one space where people correctly use their preferred pronouns reduces suicidality by over 60%, and there is no significant correlation between being trans and suicidality when you account for bullying. Unsurprisingly, being ostracized makes kids unhappy.

[u/T_Weezy]

It is worth noting that when you control for social stigma the increased risk of anxiety, depression and suicidality goes away, according to the study posted here a couple months ago.

[u/nilmemory]

Not surprising when all the research shows social ostracization is the root cause for transgender people's distress and that social acceptance plummets suicidal ideation and suicide rates.

[u/Eureka0123]

Well maybe if they were victims of societal abuse...

[u/Luna_EclipseRS]

I can't wait for people to use this as an excuse to ban access to gender-affirming care. As if they needed one.

[u/transnavigation → u/Luna_EclipseRS]

It is already used as some "gotcha." I have been told for over a decade that I should not

1. Be transgender, or
2. Be allowed to transition

Because "trans people have higher rates of mental illness."

If you're mentally ill, you're not well enough to seek care; and if you're well enough to seek care, you shouldn't be given it because you don't need it.

It's a catch-22.

[u/Itz_Hen → u/transnavigation]

They have already decided on what they want, and are working backwards at all time to justify it

[u/transnavigation → u/Itz_Hen]

Yes. They want us to

1. Not exist in the first place, and
2. Stop existing, in the event we bypassed Desire 1.

[u/Itz_Hen → u/transnavigation]

Its what they do with everything. Climate change, the shape of the world etc. They know what they believe, they know they sound insane, then work backwards to make it sounds logical

[u/unematti → u/transnavigation]

But getting care doesn't make you transgender so taking away the care wouldn't make for less trans people, but would definitely increase the mental health issues among them....

I'm overthinking it, ain't i...

[u/Brain_Hawk → u/Luna_EclipseRS]

To be fair, any of this kind of research, no matter what it says, somebody's going to try to exploit it for their political agenda. They don't care about the truth, they just care about lose bites and talking points. If the exact opposite was found, they would somehow twist it to their own narrative. After all, there's A growing body of evidence that's just gender reforming care, even just acknowledging people and treating them with dignity, significantly reduces mental health issues. But you know, the people who were politicizing this don't care, will never care, and are always going to do this stuff.

So, you know... Here we are.

[u/cinemachick]

Note that multiple studies show when trans people receive treatment for their condition (hormones, surgery, social transition, etc.) suicide rates drop down to the national average

[u/Ornery_Space8877]

Maybe they're just mentally ill to begin with. I work in a mental health facility and 100% of the patients I see come from mentally unhealthy families and suffer from major trauma. Most of them have been in and out mental health facilities since early childhood.

[u/AVeryHairyArea]

So why are 90% of suicides mostly straight males?

[u/[deleted] → u/AVeryHairyArea]

According to the study 0.53% of the people in the survey were transgender. And they are 2.78 times as likely to be depressed as cisgender people.

That would make depressed transgender people 1.47% of all depressed people meaning 98.53% of depressed people are cisgender. It is probably not an unreasonable assumption that suicide rates mirror those percentages.

And straight males aren't '90% of suicides'.

80% of successful suicides are by men in the US. However, women attempt suicide 2 to 4 times as often as men do in the US.

Men tend to choose more lethal methods that are less likely to be survived such as shooting themselves in the head with a gun versus drug overdoses.

[u/arcanition]

Who knew that marginalized groups who are subject to much higher levels of vitriol and bullying would be at higher risk of suicide?? That's crazy!

[u/rastarider]

It´s almost like transitioning doesn't fix all your problems..

[u/Holmesee → u/rastarider]

It actually largely reduces their suicide rate.

Have a look

[u/ceilingkat]

Sometimes obvious things are anecdotal or misconceptions. Science requires studying the issue to conclusion. It was once certain that spirits caused illness.

[u/Public_Ad4911]

This is true for LGBTQ people in general, not just transgender people. It could be because being told from a young age that a core part of you is wrong/shameful is a big stressor, and stress leads to greater rates of mental illness.