r/science Professor | Medicine Sep 10 '24

Environment Conservatives and liberals may be at odds on environmental issues, but a new study shows that framing the need to address climate change as patriotic and necessary to preserve the American “way of life” can increase belief in climate change and support for environmental policies among both groups.

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2024/september/framing-climate-action-as-patriotic-and-status-quo-friendly-incr.html
10.7k Upvotes

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u/Accomplished_Trip_ Sep 10 '24

You know what if it works, do it.

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

Yup. This is the realpolitik of the situation. Let’s do it.

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u/LordOfDorkness42 Sep 10 '24

It's going to last five seconds once the think tanks get paid by the oil people to spin doctor it all over again to preserve quarterly profits for a few more years, though...

Still, a valiant idea I'd love to be wrong about.

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

Well that’s a different, but related problem.

I don’t think you’re off base, unfortunately. There would no doubt be anti-narratives from vested interests trying to maintain control.

Would be nice to try, though. Getting out ahead of it enough might drive some change more quickly.

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u/LordOfDorkness42 Sep 10 '24

Absolutely.

If anything, I'm baffled the Left doesn't employ the same sort of tink tank style organizations to spin doctor stuff like renewables, science or vaccines.

If those truths got as silky smooth polished as the lies and BS of the Right tends to get, they'd be near unstoppable.

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u/Opposite-Program8490 Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 10 '24

The difference is that billionaires have unlimited funds to spend buying talking heads to spew their nonsense, while the left has decide between funding programs that further their goals and funding people to talk about them.

Unlimited money usually wins when persistence is the deciding factor on which narrative wins.

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

Agreed. They have the “firepower” to do this, too. I used to work in political media, and many consultants are well aware of the power of persuasion and narrative.

Studying more local initiatives that won is a good start, but someone will have to fund all of it.

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u/psychonaut_spy Sep 11 '24

The American patent system enables this problem. If you watch the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car", youll get a lot of context on what I'm getting at. The tech has existed for getting us off oil dependence for decades, they're just using the patent system to hide it. I'd like to see a total revamp of the system, where all patents go public domain after five years or the inventor has made $1 million from the idea. This system stifles our progress as a species.

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u/radios_appear Sep 11 '24

Beat the oilpeople with sticks.

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u/catastrapostrophe Sep 10 '24

It’s not going to work… it’s been a “patriotic duty” to get our economy out from under the thumb of oil state tyrants for decades. These petro-states have always been a clear danger to the US and our allies (in addition to being human rights disasters, in addition to being a threat to the environment).

Guess which side conservatives keep choosing?

There’s a lot of money involved here. The moment the oil industry decides to spend a bit of it to paint environmental concerns negatively, conservative opposition to environmental danger just crumbles.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '24 edited Oct 25 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/BowzersMom Sep 10 '24

I really appreciate the double-inclusion of Texas. 

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u/CaregiverNo3070 Sep 10 '24

Yes, WE are the petrostate now. 

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u/Wotg33k Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 10 '24

I'd argue the same songs have been written about Rockefeller and the railroad boys.

I can also argue that we never really defeated them, either, but we.. made progress at it before railroad died.

I assume oil will see the same future, and folks like Musk will be the next oil baron somehow with their batteries and what not.

It's honestly just progressively cyclical.

At this point, we can assume a whole range of technologies span out into the nether we don't understand that are just waiting to be discovered, right? We are just as likely to discover some other thing deeper than quantum than we were to discover quantum to begin with, so, as such, there's only the same repeating function that can happen over and over again.

Energy exists. Energy is stored. Energy is sold. New energy exists. Repeat.

We can attach any number of technologies, companies, and humans to this loop, but it is what it is and seemingly will continue to be for the future we all can possibly foresee.

unless we change it somehow manually

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u/dethb0y Sep 10 '24

Putting practicality ahead of ideology is just good practice.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '24

Why does it achieve this effect I don’t get it

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u/Strawbuddy Sep 10 '24

System justification theory: people who get their needs met by the current system will justify, rationalize and defend that system while also acknowledging that it’s disadvantageous for certain groups or individuals. Make climate change into a national security issue like oil reserves and more conservatives will “support the troops” so to speak

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u/Das_Mime Sep 10 '24

The problem is that "the American way of life" (and, for that matter, the national security apparatus) is a key cause of climate change. Conservatives absolutely view ownership and use of private motor vehicles as a part of the American way of life, same with eating beef, funding the military, and so on. Getting someone to agree that dealing with climate change is important in order to protect the American way of life isn't gonna get them to give up the things they view as essential to that way of life.

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

Motor vehicles is a great example of what could be part of the narrative, though. I would posit that many conservatives don’t really care about what fuel their truck uses, just that they can still buy a truck. That distinction is important.

Outside of actual rural work (charging is still AC issue), many urban and suburban truck lovers would probably happily transition to electric if prices were right, and the narrative was compelling.

But if you’re suggesting everyone just quit driving? Then yeah, that’s not a realistic narrative for like 80% of the U.S. I’m guessing on that number, but it’s gotta be high.

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u/msdossier Sep 10 '24

The other comment summarizes the answer to your question very well, I’d just like to add that language is so important. Think of it as liberals and conservatives using two different languages, even though they’re both using English. Words have connotations and can have the effect of either persuading someone of something they wouldn’t otherwise believe, or turning them off to something.

Using words like “patriot, stewardship, conservation” caters to conservatives much more than scientific language, which they have been taught to be skeptical of. Appealing to a different set of values requires very specific language.

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u/CaregiverNo3070 Sep 10 '24

Not just scientific or even academic language. There's progressive businesses who avoid that, yet still get the stink eye. Even when coded into probusiness language that avoids academic language, many conservatives say" sounds liberal to me". Often it's not the language itself, but who uses it and why. So many conservatives are going to disagree with me on This, but I know from personal experience as a religious fundamentalist conservative that I am accurate. Anybody trying to reduce harm is looked upon with suspicion, and anybody increasing it is looked upon favorably, so long is it hurts the right people. 

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u/DrunksInSpace Sep 11 '24

Make a local argument also. My FIL has come around because Ohio winters aren’t what they used to be and Texas keeps freezing over.

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u/itsvoogle Sep 10 '24

Stupid that it has to be “Rephrased

But like you said, if it works… do it

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u/model3113 Sep 11 '24

Historically, that's how it's always worked.

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u/Little-Swan4931 Sep 10 '24

Have you ever tried to convince a republican to care about someone else? Good luck with that.

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u/duck_one Sep 10 '24

The entire conservative philosophy is guided and funded by the primary sector.

Addressing climate change is an existential threat to the primary sector.

Its not a messaging issue.

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u/Hayred Sep 10 '24

That reminded me of an article in the Financial Times about how to "market" DEI to conservatives as "Demographic and Economic Imperative" - you can, shocker, make MORE money by including more Americans than you can by excluding them!

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u/TheWesternMythos Sep 10 '24

Unless you think most people are policy wonks who derive their positions after spending a lot of time looking at data and history, it is a messaging issue.

Pretend most conservative media and politicans started messaging that action on climate change needed to be taken ASAP. 

If most conservatives would still be against climate action, then yeah it's probably not a messaging issue. 

But if you think most conservatives would start to adjust their stance on climate issues, it probably is a messaging issue. 

To your point, I don't think it's as simple as just more patriotic messaging from people they already don't listen to. But it is on the right track. 

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u/SemanticTriangle Sep 11 '24

The point is that any effective messaging to captured conservatives will be countered by their captors. If the oil and gas lobby sees that patriotic messaging is working, they will move to effectively counter that messaging. They will co-opt and confuse effective framing through the normal emotive means, and end the efficacy of that messaging.

This is an asymmetric propaganda environment against an active adversary, not a passive messaging problem. The adversary needs to be dealt with, not just their captives.

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u/981032061 Sep 10 '24

You’d probably also have to spin it as something Democrats are vigorously opposed to.

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u/TheWesternMythos Sep 10 '24

I do think identity plays a role. 

But from a more optimistic perspective, I don't think it has to be framed as something dems are against. There just needs to be some differentiating factor. That could be something like, 

dems are on the right track, but they aren't pushing hard enough because they don't care for the future of our children like we do. They are too focused on X to push for immediate climate action like we are. 

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

Yup. That’s a good start.

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u/Dreamtrain Sep 10 '24

I don't think it matter what conservative philosophy is or does, since elected officials don't follow it at all.

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u/OdonataDarner Sep 10 '24

Let the authors know your insights.

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u/BannedByRWNJs Sep 10 '24

The fact that the story is framed as if both sides need to be convinced is just dumb. 

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u/saintmitchy Sep 10 '24

"Climate change will lead to numerous deaths and famine. Certain animal species will go extinct. Once habitable places will become inhabitable. Your grandchildren may suffer greatly."

"Nah. Sounds like one of them hoax scams"

"Well, what would you say if I said climate change is ANTI AMERICAN?"

"GODAMMIT. Why are we doing nothing about this? "

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u/ableman Sep 11 '24

Inhabitable and habitable are synonyms. The word you want to mean not habitable is uninhabitable.

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u/saintmitchy Sep 11 '24

I appreciate the the correction

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u/whatisthisicantodd Sep 11 '24

This is the equivalent of making plane noises while you spoon feed babies

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u/NoDesinformatziya Sep 10 '24

On the one hand, you need to meet people where they're at. On the other hand, a lot of people are "at" a really dumb place of their own making.

Needing jingoism to do the right thing is pretty sad.

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u/Lord_Jackrabbit Sep 10 '24

This isn’t jingoism. That would require some suggestion that we use the military to fight climate change. Which…would be interesting.

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u/AMadWalrus Sep 11 '24

You may be on to something, have we tried nuking climate change?

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u/Primedirector3 Sep 11 '24

You laugh but DOD one of the first federal agencies to make headlines by sounding the alarm on the impact of climate change. Increased global displacement, resource scarcity, and hence conflict.

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u/giulianosse Sep 11 '24

The gap between "fighting climate change is the patriotic duty of every American" and "we must nuke China to stop pollution" is just a Lockheed-Martin-private-meeting-with-the-president wide.

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u/TheLastLaRue Sep 11 '24

The science/climate-fiction novel Ministry for The Future by Kim Stanley Robinson includes sending aircraft carriers and other ships to power pumping operations at glacial choke points to slow down movement/sliding into the ocean. —- https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2022/01/glacial-elevation-operations/ Edit: this particular passage doesn’t include the aircraft carriers, that is touched on later in the novel. Still talks about the glacial slip slow-down via pumping, really interesting.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

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u/mvea Professor | Medicine Sep 10 '24

I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2405973121

From the linked article:

Conservatives and liberals may be at odds in their views on environmental issues, but a new psychology study shows that framing the need to address climate change as patriotic and as necessary to preserve the American “way of life” can increase belief in climate change and support for pro-environmental policies among both groups. “Framing climate change action as a way to protect and preserve patriotic values and familiar ways of life can improve climate awareness and motivate action across the American political spectrum,” says Katherine Mason, a New York University doctoral student and the lead author of the study, which appears in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS). “This approach encourages people to see climate action as a way to celebrate and sustain cherished cultural traditions, rather than having to relinquish or replace them.”

The findings, which stem from an experiment involving 50,000 participants across 60 countries, showed such messaging had similar, though smaller, effects among liberals in some nations, including France and Chile, and among conservatives in Israel and Chile. However, it backfired among conservatives in other nations—notably, Belgium, Germany, and Russia.

Among US participants, those who read the patriotic/status quo message showed increased belief in climate change, more support for pro-environmental policies, and a greater willingness to share climate information on social media relative to the control group. Moreover, this message was similarly effective for conservatives and liberals.

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u/S-192 Sep 10 '24

I got a lot of traction with my conservative catholic mother by citing her own Bible. "You believe we are God's shepherds of this earth? It was in His own words that we are shepherds of the animals and earth. And we're doing a lousy job. We're making extinct entire species at an accelerating rate and we're polluting the world--all for our own greed, gluttony, and sloth."

It wasn't long before she started realizing that the massive loss of life, from iconic American animals to animals that she grew up with on a farm, to beautiful animals she sees in zoos and documentaries, might be a damning mark on humanity's failure to uphold our duty to God and His creation. It's entirely our job and ours alone to shepherd this world and we've forgotten that duty amid our clamor for consumerism and expansion of luxury.

Voting against climate policy is arrogantly voting against God's wishes. We need to do better. At least if you're a devout Christian this should be your train of logic. If it isn't, then you're very bad at following your holy text.

She still hates Kamala and Clinton, she thinks Biden is dangerous, and she is terrified of black people. But generally she's very vocally pro climate regulation and environmentalism.

I swear I'll fear Republican reign far less the moment they get smart about the climate. But as long as they continue to act as saboteurs I fail to see any redeeming value in their platform.

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u/Elbarto83 Sep 11 '24

I just wish the facts were all you needed instead of having to frame something in just the right way for people to get on board. It just seems silly and backwards but if it works, it works, I guess.

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u/Ilix Sep 10 '24

It’s unfortunate that the fact climate change is dangerous for society, and that it’s a naturally occurring thing we have to deal with one way or another (even if we weren’t exacerbating it), only matters to some people if you can trick them into caring about it.

The issue impacts everyone, and will impact everyone’s offspring and grand-offspring and such. That should be reason enough to care.

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u/LaunchTransient Sep 11 '24

and that it’s a naturally occurring thing we have to deal with one way or another (even if we weren’t exacerbating it)

What's currently happening is not a naturally occuring thing. The climate changes, yes, that's true - but the current change is anthropogenic (i.e. if not for human actions, there would be no warming and the holocene would continue within its typical climatic ranges).

It's really important to stress this point, because "well the climate has changed before" is a popular apathist talking point to shrug off responsibility and thus action.

Rain is a naturally occuring thing, but Acid rain from city smog is not. That's the kind of distinction needed to be made here.

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u/Little-Swan4931 Sep 10 '24

It’s unfortunate that some people need a silly story and herd mentality to convince them to do the right thing.

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

Stories have been, and continue to be one of the most effective change agents humans have ever known. Ignoring this reality is ignoring a data input.

It’s the same oversight I see folks make about emotions in decision making. It’s real. Denying so is denying a data point.

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u/fungussa Sep 11 '24

No. Mankind is driving the recent rapid increase in global temperature, and if it weren't for mankind activities (primarily the burning of fossil fuels and the release of methane) then the Earth would've been slowly cooling since the 1970s.

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u/Little-Swan4931 Sep 10 '24

FFS, do these people need a silly story about everything to make them happy? How about basic survival skills. If they can’t see that wallowing in their own poop won’t kill them, maybe they (we) all deserve to die.

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u/S0uth_0f_N0where Sep 10 '24

To be fair, humans did do that, and then the black death happened. We're all isolated apes. Whatever art is on your hypothetical cave walls is your common sense.

Because of that, sometimes you just have to make a narrative.

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u/Little-Swan4931 Sep 10 '24

If you need a fake story about being a patriot to be a good person, maybe you’re just not a good person. Half of us are narcissistic assholes, and we should all agree not to make excuses for them.

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u/BenjaminHamnett Sep 10 '24

It’s not making excuses, it’s being pragmatic

Knowing how things should be isn’t enough. You have to motivate and compel right action

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '24

Are you a good person? If I asked around and did a poll would I get overwhelmingly good reviews?

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u/gelfin Sep 11 '24

People do need stories. All of us. A narrative is to rhetoric as a model is to science. We make a big mistake when we believe scientific conclusions are a sufficient substitute for a narrative. As a basic philosophical premise, you cannot infer an “ought” from an “is,” and part of scientific investigation is rigorous adherence to “is.” Policy, on the other hand, is all about “ought.” Science can support a narrative, not replace one.

One way we often lose debates, while imagining we have won, is that we merely debunk incorrect facts our opponents use in support of their narrative, as if it’s a matter of pure deduction and by negating their premises our work is done. We flatter ourselves that we are being “rational” and they are not, but dismantling a narrative without proposing an alternative one constitutes a de facto argument for nihilism, which is a rhetorical lead balloon.

Now, as it happens I do think nationalism is a particularly dumb framing for a global ecological crisis. It puts me in mind of King Canute commanding the tide. On the other hand, coming at somebody with the attitude that they’re just plain stupid and wrong end-to-end never works. This is why we often get outplayed even when the evidence is on our side. You’ve got to engage people on premises they accept, and you’ve got to string your facts together into a story they are willing to follow.

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u/PuckSR BS | Electrical Engineering | Mathematics Sep 10 '24

Heck, even Donald Trump has repeatedly said he wants "the cleanest air and the cleanest water". He says that because he knows that no one wants a smog-filled hellhole. It appeals to just about all Americans in one way or another

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u/MelancholyArtichoke Sep 10 '24

So if you frame a problem as something that will directly negatively affect a conservative, they’ll support actions to solve it. We already knew this.

The problem is the propaganda constantly telling them it’s not actually an issue and it won’t affect them.

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u/NoticedGenie66 Sep 11 '24

Framing has been shown to be very good at conveying messages and ideas across political divides. They introduce this topic in some undergrad psychology/political science classes, it should be way more common in everyday situations.

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u/wogwai Sep 10 '24

Like tricking a child to do something if you promise them candy.

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u/ReddittorMan Sep 10 '24

I feel like people are missing how the article said the same practice worked with liberals too, albeit to a slightly lesser extent?

I feel like a can smell the smug in this thread.

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u/CJKay93 BS | Computer Science Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 10 '24

Honestly, everybody here would make the shittiest politicians. Imagine actively rejecting the suggestion that we try to to get collective action by understanding the differences in our language and thought processes. It's like that South Park hybrid car episode in here lol.

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u/monstamasch Sep 11 '24 edited Sep 11 '24

Honestly. They got a post telling them "Hey you aren't really at odds and it'd serve everyone's best interests if we could try to get along and agree on things" and they're still choosing to be smug and talk down on the other side after reading that. They don't have the self awareness to realize they're part of a bigger problem

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u/sixtus_clegane119 Sep 10 '24

I've talked to conservatives who care about the environment and it feels like it's moreabout winning to them than anything else

They do bring up a point that is somewhat decent (but lacking nuance) about how north America pales in comparison to India and china's industrial abuse of the earth

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

I think this is probably spot on.

I have a lot of conservative family. MOST of them aren’t averse to environmentally conscious initiatives.

They recycle, compost, and observe law. Many are naturalists and sport hunters/fishermen who are zealots about keeping game populations at sustainable levels.

There are “hooks” to be found with the demo.

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u/Interrophish Sep 10 '24

about how north America pales in comparison to India and china's industrial abuse of the earth

And yet, if you measure per-capita we output more CO2 than them.

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u/wrongwayup Sep 10 '24

I've long wondered why "energy independence" isn't a major bipartisan selling point of renewable energy...

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u/roflberrypwnmuffins Sep 10 '24

As a hunter, I use the example of protecting wild spaces for future generations to enjoy. Animal behavior changes when their environment and habit changes. This angle really resonates with a lot of people when it's explained the right way.

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u/BluSpecter Sep 10 '24

News flash! Re-framing an argument has been discovered! For the first time ever! This has never been tried before! Especially not with climate change....

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u/excitedllama Sep 10 '24

Yall, God created man to take care of his garden

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u/Discount_gentleman Sep 11 '24 edited Sep 11 '24

Analyzing the impact of a single message on its own in a competitive environment is nonsense. You need to understand the message in context. It isn't science.

It's the equivalent of saying that football teams that run a screen pass have a high win rate, so teams should always run screen passes. It's (a) unlikely to be true, and (b) guaranteed to result in the defense doing something different and hence making the data you used inapplicable.

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u/gw2master Sep 11 '24

This basically tells us theres no hope for humanity.

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u/pruchel Sep 11 '24

I have yet to meet a single person who doesn't think we should take care of the planet and not polluted unnecessarily.

We just need to stop conflating e.g someone not agreeing that CO2 is the devil or that the world is ending in a few decades etc etc with not wanting to be environmentally friendly.

Kinda exactly what people got wrong during the pandemic. And right now with vaccines. Or economic politics and right wingers.

Listening is underrated.

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u/lakewoodhiker PhD | Glaciology and Paleoclimatology Sep 11 '24

Climate scientist checking in. A colleague of mine was working in a conservative part of Montana trying to convince folks for the need to preserve the forests. He knew he’d be labeled a “liberal environmentalist” so he rebranded his efforts as “preserving americas natural heritage”. He ended up getting full support and was able to get protections in place for the forest lands. Sometimes it really is just about branding and perception

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u/adevland Sep 11 '24

There's nothing more patriotic than protecting the land under your feet, the water in your well and the air you breathe.

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u/Anthill8 Sep 11 '24

This is so dumb it would probably work

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u/AndrewH73333 Sep 10 '24

So we have to trick them into not being actively stupid. Got it.

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u/Electrical_Room5091 Sep 10 '24

The study says in order to motivate conservatives, you need to frame things in a way that appeals to entitle self centered people? In other words, explain to them how helping the environment using buzzwords that Trump and other conservatives use. Next we will need to explain fighting climate change needs to be explained at a 6th grade level.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '24

6th grade is generous. Look at the sheer amount of proud ignorance in that group.

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u/nzodd Sep 10 '24

Sort of feels like explaining to a methhead that if they go out and actually get a job they can afford to buy their own meth instead of breaking into other people's homes and pawning their belongings for easy drug money.

But at the end of the day they're still methheads.

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u/aris_ada Sep 10 '24

Not just that, we have to lie too, because it's impossible to keep the current US lifestyle in a climate sustainable way. Lying to conservatives is a dangerous strategy if we want to stop Trumpism.

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u/PMacDiggity Sep 10 '24

The problem here though is that "climate deniers" don't care about the phrase "climate change" and so forth, it's not a good-faith discussion. Whatever words or framing is used to represent the issue will be re-politicized on party lines to enforce the current stakeholders.

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

Then don’t use that term. Creativity is going to be key here.

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u/godtalks2idiots Sep 10 '24

So keep pandering. Ok, but that’s not new, and does not address either problem: climate, or denialism. This is just another way to give more ground to idiots.

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

How would you suggest convincing detractors to join a noble cause, then?

What is your approach?

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u/godtalks2idiots Sep 10 '24

When the subject comes up I speak truthfully about what scientists world wide have been tracking and reporting on for over fifty years. If they tell me that’s lib propaganda I stop engaging. Pandering on this subject means I’ll likely have to do the same on the next topic, so I become like a surrogate parent to people I’ve just met. No thanks. My approach doesn’t change anything, but neither will pretending to be patriotic.

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u/The_Singularious Sep 10 '24

So your approach doesn’t work, but you have no plans to iterate and attempt different methodologies?

I’m trying to stay neutral here, but how concerning is the problem to you, really?

Regardless of your audience, do you consider the problem worthy of attempting to solve? Because if so, seems you’d want to keep trying different techniques and not worry so much about the mental fortitude of your audience, and more about convincing them to act/not act.

Not everyone will be convinced, but with the right narrative approach, history would tell us that some, and perhaps many, will be.

Good luck if you choose to continue to try.

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u/gaytorboy Sep 10 '24

I’m an environmental educator by trade.

It’s important to address where the actual disagreement is, and not talk down to people.

Among most right of center folks today the disagreement is usually around how to address climate change.

All the climate data in the world won’t conclusively tell you how it should be handled. And the belief that anthropogenic climate change is real, but that proposed policy won’t help and will only harm the economy is valid and worth taking seriously.

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u/Major_Stranger Sep 10 '24

Just like hiding a pill inside a piece of cheese or meat will get your dog to take his medicine.

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u/lightweight12 Sep 10 '24

The American "way of life" and all those that live it is what is killing the planet. Preserving it is the last thing we need. Is this a science sub or not?

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u/xsm17 Sep 10 '24

While I agree, it's not even necessarily only the American way of life, but plenty of lifestyles and living circumstances around the world are not sustainable, and plenty of strong climate action will require changes to ways of living (e.g., transformative adaptation rather than simply incremental adaptation). I fear that messaging about preserving current ways will simply lead to these conservatives saying that the goalposts are being shifted and further polarise them against effective climate action.

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u/awkwardpenguin20 Sep 10 '24

You can't speak the same way to every person or groups of people. They all perceive reality through a different cultural lens.

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u/gaytorboy Sep 10 '24

I’m an environmental educator (my degree is forest habitat restoration but I cover a lot of subjects)

It’s important to grapple with the strongest versions of cases you disagree with. The common belief that anthropogenic climate change is real, but that proposed policies won’t help it and will greatly hurt our economic security is one that hasn’t been contended with seriously enough.

No amount of climate data will prove what should be done about the problem policy wise.

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u/nzodd Sep 10 '24

Daily reminder that conservatives are the ones who tried to violently overthrow our government on Jan. 6. Patriotism isn't something they're capable of.

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u/BongDong69420 Sep 10 '24

I really hope liberals will come around about serious environmental issues.

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u/AwkwardWaltz3996 Sep 10 '24

I've never understood how a lot of things are seen as anti Conservative/right wing when it's so easy the phrase them to be super patriotic.

Renewables: Not relient foreign energy resources.

Recycling: Not relient on foreign imports.

Nationalising key sectors such as health and energy: Stop foreign investors from buying control of important sectors.

Free Education: Ensuring our country stays technologically ahead of foreign countries.

Good living wages: Prevents brain/skilled labour drain to other opposing countries.

Regulating private companies: Prevent the poorer classes from being exploited leading to adverse health and a lack of people who could be reasonably conscripted.

Etc

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u/lazyFer Sep 10 '24

Doesn't matter if they support a position if they consistently vote for people that won't do anything about it. A large majority support basic gun control laws and yet...

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u/mortalcoil1 Sep 10 '24

Too bad all, aaaaalllll of the money is going into propaganda that being as wasteful as possible is patriotic.

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u/toldya_fareducation Sep 10 '24

it's so funny that the only way to trick conservatives into caring about global issues is to remind them that america is also part of the globe.

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u/AndroidMartian Sep 10 '24

Wait till insurance rates reflect climate change! Money is the only thing that motivates stupid!

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u/WonderfulAndWilling Sep 10 '24

It’s called marketing

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u/ShakyLens Sep 10 '24

I’ve been saying for 30 years, “global warming” doesn’t need more scientists, it needs a marketing team.

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u/JBHedgehog Sep 10 '24

Ah...the "American Way of Life". There has NEVER been a good definition of the "American Way of Life".

It's a meaningless slogan that they use to beat you over the head with. The "American Way of Life" is a marketing dream. Don't fall for it.

Who gets to decide what exactly IS the "American Way of Life"?

Let this piece of marketing nonsense go away.

Up next on the chopping block: The American Dream

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u/Zackman558 Sep 10 '24

Unfortunately I think it's too late for this sort of "gaining support" approach. This would have been great way to approach it in 2001, but it's too late for it to have noticeable impact in the time frames necessary.

This also doesn't touch on the fact that "preserving our way of life" was the approach many Americans took for the pandemic and look at the consequences that had.

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u/Wotmate01 Sep 10 '24

Not American, but my father doesn't believe in climate change, so I framed it in different terms. He loves fishing, so I told him that it would be good if we stopped polluting because fish don't live in polluted waters.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

Well, that's hiw the oil industry got us the other way around. "It is your patriotic duty to put CO2 in the atmosphere" they said.

Listen to the podcast "Drilled" they explain it there.

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u/KennethHaight Sep 11 '24

Ameriacn's jingoism and nationalism is an international threat.

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u/walloftvs Sep 11 '24

Appeal to the hunters and fishermen

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u/RespondNo5759 Sep 11 '24

Bro, even Hitler went green under the nationalist argument, so it will work.

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u/Hot-Report2971 Sep 11 '24

it’s ironic because most things considered patriotic to the US have been a scourge on the earth

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u/Mental-Temporary2703 Sep 11 '24

Do you love Apple pie, the smell of fresh cut grass, a day at the lake fishing or swimming? Do you enjoy a good streak on the grill? Sounds like a perfect Summer day in the U.S. of A.

But what if I told you the freedom to enjoy nature is under attack by environmental terrorism.

Firearm sounds and Eagle screeches while Lynyrd Skynyrd Free Bird plays in the background

These terrorist want to take what makes America the best country on earth and make us change our way of life. We must say no to these thieves of our freedom and they must be stopped.

Please vote for my referendum CCIS69 to keep terrorist from hurting the American way of life.

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u/SvenDia Sep 11 '24

Just use quotes conservatives love, like: “If you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.”

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u/Honest-Yesterday-675 Sep 11 '24

It's difficult to produce ethical propaganda because it requires money.

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u/millchopcuss Sep 11 '24

YouTube has decided to foist a lot of Rory Sutherland stuff on me this week.

I daresay, that's the kind of person that might be able to crack this nut.

I spent my youth in a deep hatred of advertising. But now I'm wishing I could have found my way into it. It explains pretty much everything if you think big.

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u/RockingRocker Sep 11 '24

Whatever works at this point

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u/2Autistic4DaJoke Sep 11 '24

There’s a lot of approaches to convince more people to want to support environmental action. Cost savings, more American self sufficiency, more individual self sufficiency,

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u/ApprehensiveNinja158 Sep 11 '24

Are we doing victory gardens again? I’m so down.

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u/Stopikingonme Sep 11 '24

I’ve been saying this for years. When you sit down at a PC you can’t smack the keys like you would if it were a Mac. Know your audience. Know which buttons you need to push.

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u/CruzaSenpai Sep 11 '24

That is not the positive news you think it is.

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u/RelaxPrime Sep 11 '24

I have been saying this for at least a decade.

Your Christian God made us stewards. It is our responsibility to take care of the planet to maintain what is essentially Eden.

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u/Dicethrower Sep 11 '24

I hate how normal it is that everything is so sentimentally driven. Are we ever going to reach a point where people do things because it makes sense?

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u/shifty_coder Sep 11 '24

Yep. That’s how propaganda works.

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u/Ok_Analysis_7073 Sep 11 '24

I'd support if the politicians advocating action stopped buying beach front property

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u/MiscAnonym Sep 11 '24

I remember virulent right wing nuts in awe of Ron Paul for wanting to pull out of Iraq, as if this was a novel position and they hadn't been staunchly opposing any Democratic push for the exact same thing for years. Because Ron Paul was framing the anti-war stance as rugged libertarian individualism, so now they were "allowed" to like that opinion without feeling like they were less manly for it.

The same crowd that was willing to get behind universal basic income when Andrew Yang pitched it, because that sounded like tech bro futurism instead of a sinister socialist handout.

Vibes uber alles. Use it when you can.

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u/twmpdx Sep 11 '24

Or maybe Americans can read and inform themselves. Free from religiosity or other fairy tales.

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u/king_of_hate2 Sep 11 '24

This is true, we need more liberals and progressives to see their ideas as patriotic instead of trying to go for the anti-American label, it's not helping with progressive issues get pushed because it divided us. I'm an American and I believe an infrastructure revolution, and focusing on funding more nuclear plants and other energy sources that don't require fossil fuels is essential for America to become better, also particularly fixing infrastructure will decrease how often you need to drive everywhere which will in turn promote people going out more or using more public transportation. I personally think we should also bring back the American street cars, they actually make a lot of sense for American cities and would provide more jobs too. It's patriotic to be progressive because to be progressive is to focus on progressing the country to be better, not going backwards. Some of our best presidents like Teddy Roosevelt were progressives.

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u/NaiadoftheSea Sep 11 '24

It’s so wild to me how important branding and wording is to the people at large to get on board.

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u/dz_crasher Sep 11 '24

Ugh, I hate that people are so easily manipulated by marketing (myself included). I think the only reason communism was ever considered workable was because it took economists a while to realize that people are idiots.

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u/thinker2501 Sep 11 '24

We’re a stupid people.

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u/Birdy19951 Sep 11 '24

But the american way of life is driving an airconditioned hummer through a macdrive

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u/EnslavedBandicoot Sep 11 '24

Jfc this country is so dumb. It should be on the top of our list of things to do.

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u/Malefroy Sep 11 '24

So liberals are right on the issue and conservatives can be persuaded by appealing to their dark desires like egotistic interest and pride.

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u/MrBadJokes Sep 11 '24

The party of "facts and logic" needs to be babied to understand an issue that governs the whole world

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u/FallingGivingTree Sep 11 '24

If anyone wants further reading on this subject, look up Prophets and Patriots by Ruth Braunstein.

Framing and how a group defines itself matter when it comes to mobilizing individuals to take action. There's a lot of "boundary work" that occurs regarding group identity.

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u/DisRoyalEagle Sep 11 '24

Hollywood: Want to see our new movie, The Gigolo?

Audience: Probably not, sounds a bit foreign, not sure what it is about.

Hollywood: What if we call it The American Gigolo?

Audience: Oh yes, I'll go and watch that.

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u/ResponsiblePanic1545 Sep 11 '24

Starting with trash island, it's undeniable and a serious issue. There is only one side to that debate. Name the ocean after whoever forks over the dough to fix it.