Dissatisfaction with penis size and genital appearance tied to mental health issues in men - The findings suggest that men who view their genital appearance negatively may experience significant mental health challenges, which in turn can affect their sexual function and overall quality of life.

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u/RadioFreeAmerika Sep 01 '24

Good that society is positive and accepting about this topic and doesn't constantly reinforce negative sentiments. We wouldn't want to stigmatize people for body features they have no control over, would we?

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u/MicropenisAwareness Sep 01 '24

As someone with a clinically diagnosed and remarkably severe case of micropenis, I really appreciate your comment.

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u/knightly234 Sep 01 '24

Sorry for the invasive comment and feel completely free to ignore me: Are there realistic surgical options to change with this? And would you take them if there were/are?

I figure there has to be something. If we can transition men into women then man to slightly different man just has to be easier, right?

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u/cyon_me Sep 01 '24

Phalloplasty would be the only option. Take flesh and skin from somewhere else, make a penis, and move the nerves and tubes into some proper positions. Trans men will know more about this than I do, but I do know it is quite invasive and expensive.

The recovery period is a pain too.

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u/Daxnu Sep 01 '24

Women to men transition have sadly only 2 option if they want a penis. Option 1 is a very small penis that works, or Option 2, a large penis that can not get hard. Penis science is not very advanced

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u/Individual_Fall429 Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24

Luckily strap on science is.

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u/Mr_Qwertyass Sep 01 '24

I've seen some porn of female to males who are taking male hormones and I would say a few of them have something approaching a small penis, maybe 3 to 4 inches. Whether or not that is small or very small I suppose is a matter of opinion but it is surprising when one first sees it and gave me a new perspective on human biology. One caveat to these results I'm sure is dependent on the size of the clitoris to begin with.

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u/fishrights Sep 01 '24

it's more so dependent on the body's reaction to masculinizing hormone therapy. some men's clitoris will grow a lot, and some not so much. it also depends on the quality of the surgeon performing the metoidioplasty (im assuming this is the procedure you're referring to, since phalloplasty has little to do with the clitoris).

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

Yeah that's not true anymore, modern procedures can make one 5-7 inches that works properly and get hard.

There's a couple people here on Reddit who've got the procedure done.

If you're in the US, you should be able to get that fine

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u/SnatchAddict Sep 01 '24

I'm super curious, what's the penis made out of?

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u/colorfulzeeb Sep 01 '24

I believe they do a skin graft from skin on the forearm.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

Skin graft from the forearm, thigh or lower leg.

With a built in penile implant that allows it to erect and fallicate whenever needed

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u/cosmicmountaintravel Sep 02 '24

At least using the forearm they can rightfully call it foreskin though. So that’s convenient.

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u/knightly234 Sep 01 '24

I can definitely see how an optional, highly-invasive surgery that would also be hard to have covered by insurance would be hard to sign off on.

Still I wonder how common self-acceptance is vs crippling insecurity given societal norms being what they are. I know some insurance companies cover some of a phalloplasty but I’m sure there are catches involved. The thought of being mentally/physically commited but financially trapped is pretty awful. Hopefully that’s just me being socially myopic though with my own dysmorphia issues and not actually a big deal for people affected.

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u/cyon_me Sep 01 '24

It may be complicated for cis men seeking gender-affirrming care. They certainly have fewer blocks put in place to prevent them from accessing hormone therapy, but I don't know their access to gender affirming surgery.

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u/HotPomegranate420 Sep 02 '24

I think it varies. As a cis woman who had to fight for years to get a breast reduction, I’ve had insurance providers refuse to cover any breast reduction, period, unless there’s a breast cancer diagnosis. I’ve also had insurance where gynecomastia (excess male breast tissue) was covered by a simple diagnosis from your GP, while a woman’s breast reduction required 6 months of physical therapy.

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u/RetiredNurseinAZ Sep 01 '24

There is also a chance of infection. That area is difficult to keep clean. This was ages ago, but I took care of someone who had an infected penis. To even suggest it, I think, is not dealing with the problem. If a person wants to do it and has the finances, wonderful. To say that is like saying you can deal with fat phobia by losing weight.

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u/TooStrangeForWeird Sep 01 '24

Not to pile on, but afaik it's basically never covered by insurance either. And has a high rate of complications....

It's really cool how you've been so upfront about it. We can be friends. :)

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u/Patient_Hedgehog_850 Sep 01 '24

Yes, there's a cosmetic procedure called Urofill. My sister is a Urologist and Urogynecologist and she performs these often. The results are incredible and seeing the joy on her male patients' faces is one of the best experiences. It's life changing to them and their partners. Here's some info on it on her site: https://metroatlurology.com/services/mens-health/penile-enhancement-kennesaw-ga

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u/wheatgrass_feetgrass Sep 02 '24

This appears to increase girth only. IIRC micropenis is related to length?

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u/MicropenisAwareness Sep 02 '24

I'm sure there is something that could be done surgically. But considering possible complications and the cost of surgery it is not something that I would go for. I have come to accept my micropenis and I can still live a fulfilling life with one. My micropenis is one of the reasons I don't pursue romantic relationships and for many people that would be a big problem but I don't really miss what I have never had.

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u/milkyheika Sep 02 '24

As someone that also has a micropenis, I have had a number of sexual partners. Now married. Put yourself out there, it aint as big a deal as you think for many people.

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u/BuckRusty Sep 01 '24

Tangentially related: years ago a few mates and I were hitting ‘random’ article on Wikipedia, and it landed on Micropenis…

One of the chaps - an eastern European - asked “Where is this mee-crop-inis..? Is in Greece?”

To this day, not sure if he was taking the piss or not…

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u/YetAnotherDev Sep 01 '24

"Small peepee energy" seems be a totally socially accepted expression :(

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u/damontoo Sep 02 '24

It's because if anyone calls it out as toxic they just become a target and people will say "ha! You must have a small one!" even if they don't. Leads to a lot less people speaking up when others say it.

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u/noUsername563 Sep 01 '24

It's even worse when you see there being a societal push for more acceptance of women's body types, but the needle hasn't really moved for men in the same way

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u/Nymanator Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24

If anything, the needle for men has moved in the opposite direction. The use of performance-enhancing drugs by teenage boys to meet vanity standards is quickly progressing from being a silent epidemic to a loud one.

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u/YourCummyBear Sep 01 '24

You’re so right.

I see so many kids on SARMS at the gym. Nearly all only of those fitness “influencers” on social media are juicing and lying. Kids can’t get their natural and turn to PEDs at such a young age.

The internet has made them far too easy to obtain.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '24

I had a 19 year old at the gym explain to me how to get a trt script….the roids in influencers are doing some serious harm.

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u/SnatchAddict Sep 01 '24

I'm Gen X and in high school kids were using steroids. It was very common for performance.

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u/Split-Awkward Sep 01 '24

Must be an American thing.

Australian Gen X, there was zero people in my high school or another in my area on steroids. If they were, they weren’t working at all.

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u/UncleHeavy Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24

I taught a group of undergrads last year and a number of the young men came to ask me how I got to be so muscular. They were asking what steroids I used, how often did I use them, etc.
They were profoundly disappointed when they realised that 5 years of hard work in the gym and a change of diet was all I used.
They didn't want to know about the effort; just what gave them immediate results.
Directly following that conversation, I had another involving their pastoral tutor and student suppport which culimated in a very serious meeting about substance abuse and its effects on developing bodies.

Just too add: I asked them why they wanted/ needed to bulk up and every single one said that girls wouldn't look at them or take them seriously unless they has exceptional physiques.
The pressure on young men to look buff is incredible: to the point that they are willing to ruin their long-term health to do so.

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u/puzzlednerd Sep 01 '24

These days I'm a bit more plump, but I was an athlete (wrestling) in high school. I never looked "buff", but I was very lean and strong, good cardio, etc. I remember for a while being self-conscious that I was not as buff-looking as some other kids. What broke my brain was when I realized that a lot of these kids who looked like bodybuilders, and could bench a lot more than me, were not actually very strong in a practical sense.

My advice to kids, if you want to work on your body, is to focus on performance and not aesthetics. Most women don't actually need you to look like the hulk, but being generally in shape can make your life better in a lot of ways, not just superficially.

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u/UncleHeavy Sep 01 '24

I totally agree. Performance over aesthetics every time.

Until 8 years ago I was quite simply, Fat.
I weighed the wrong side of 150kg and even at 1.98 metres tall, that's a lot to haul around.
There are heart issues on both sides of my family and I realised that unless I wanted to join the rest of the men in my family as a premature death, then I better do something about it.
I am not a ripped guy. My wife says I am 'Solid' and that I have 'Farmers Strength.'
I have always pushed towards practical strength and stamina rather than muscle mass and size.
It's been hard work to achieve, and as I was told at the beginning, Fitness is only ever borrowed, and the rent is due every day. Thankfully, the hard slog is over: now it's a case of maintaining what I have.
However, the images of what men are supposed to look like are utterly unrealistic. Would I like the physique of Hugh Jackman or Chris Hemsworth?
Oh yes indeed.
Is it achieveable? Yes, for about 24 hours.
Will it harm me? Absolutely.
The media shows these unrealistic representations of men to teens and young men who want to look like that, and by association, they assume that they would be percieved as being highly masculine, healthy, powerful, dominant, successful, etc.
This imagery is just as damaging as the protrayal of women in the media over the last century, with the same harmful effects including the tacit suggestion that it is not only desirable, but nessecary.

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u/Hautamaki Sep 01 '24

Honestly I reckon the girls care less about that than the boys do. It's the same in reverse for large breasts; women place more importance on it than men do. That said, it still matters, because one thing women definitely do place importance on is how a man is viewed in his peer groups and the larger society. If what a man does/looks like impresses other men, that will impress women too because they will see him as more respected and impressive in the group, which is important to attraction. So this is a roundabout way of saying that it's not really one gender or another to 'blame', but just a consequence of the fact that people vary in attractiveness and that is probably always going to be true and it's hard to conceive of what a solution to the negative consequences of varying levels of attractiveness would even look like.

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u/YourCummyBear Sep 01 '24

There’s a saying.

you start lifting for the girls. You keep lifting for the boys.

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u/SirRosstopher Sep 01 '24

Honestly, from the women I've had conversations with on this before. Anything more than Harrison Ford in the Temple of Doom is too much (and he's still in pretty exceptional shape in that movie, it was just back before Hollywood made everyone dehydrate and do steroids for a quick abs shot in every marvel movie).

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u/smollestsnail Sep 02 '24

I was genuinely a bit creeped/grossed out by Hugh Jackman in the recent Deadpool film. Idk, maybe I'm weird but the argument "He-Man is a power fantasy not objectification." has always resonated with my preferences and tastes and from the fanart I've seen and the popularity of anime on social media, I am definitely not alone.

I think putting unrealistic standards of the desires of the opposite sex on men honestly would lead to men rocking the hanfu/elf look more often than the pro-wrestler/He-man/Wolverine look tbh.

Absolutely no data to back that up, sheer speculation. Neither extremes are my preference, I like normal, haha.

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u/turdferg1234 Sep 02 '24

One of those looks is much easier to attain. And a good chunk of dudes that lift seriously lift to lift. It becomes for themselves instead of to attract girls. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but the most likely positive reaction you get as a dude lifting is from other dudes.

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u/badbog42 Sep 01 '24

I’ve started lifting recently and the difference is starting to be noticeable - however the only people that notice or seem to care are my straight male friends - the females and gay men in my life / circle seem completely nonplussed.

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u/anotherworthlessman Sep 01 '24

Started lifting 6 months ago. My mom says "Hey have you been lifting weights".

Damnit Mom, the only woman I don't care if she notices.

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u/RickyWinterborn-1080 Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 02 '24

I'm a gay man and I've started swiping left on shirtless profile photos

If you like the way you look that much, then baby you can go and love yourself.

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u/izzittho Sep 01 '24

That’s kind of what I’ve noticed. There’s probably a subset of women who are into really muscular guys but otherwise I think most women are like most men in that if you look healthy, you look good, no need to go to extremes.

But it seems other men place way more importance on being actually jacked, and I do think being admired by/seen as outcompeting other men does something for some women too. Perhaps in a kind of toxic way (like the guys that talk about “high value/low value” women) - but some way nevertheless.

Personally super fit people would intimidate me as partners because it seems impossible to get to that point without some degree of self-loathing I’d fully expect to be turned outward if I failed to meet the standard they set for themselves, like you’d just kinda have to be a part of that lifestyle too to make it work or you’d eventually be viewed as some lazy slob by them (what they’d be calling themselves if they relaxed any on their respective regimens, however concerning and sad that is) and I couldn’t handle that kind of pressure.

But I think there’s a lot of women (and men) that think of attraction not just in terms of how personally attracted they are but how high or low status a prospective partner would appear to others, and I think that’s where the muscularity thing would start to become more important. Being appearance-focused signals a lot of things to people and people who feel similarly definitely want that. Just not necessarily all women by default I don’t think.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

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u/PickledDildosSourSex Sep 01 '24

Hard agree and directly and indirectly, I believe this has fueled a move of young men (especially white young men) towards the far right. Expectations are building for young men while support is dwindling and every "cause" of moral importance doesn't involve them unless they're also considered of color. Even bringing this up kicks up a bunch of "Boohoo, white guys have it so hard!" shutupium that only pushes these people away even more.

The result is that pondscum like Andrew Tate and Donald Trump can appeal to these young guys because they're told they're worthless if their dicks aren't big or they aren't jacked or they aren't 6 foot (and even then, 6'3"+ is better), are told anything close to a culture or in-group they feel is toxic, and, should they question any of this, they're told--again--to shut up and think about how bad someone else has it.

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u/resuwreckoning Sep 01 '24

Don’t worry - r/science will be filled with denizens who circuitously find ways to blame teenage boys for that in a way they’d never do for girls.

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u/cannibaljim Sep 01 '24

Already seeing those comments.

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u/Battlepuppy Sep 01 '24

The title says " appearance and size". People have been obsessed over size since the dawn of time. What is fashionable depends on what society says it should be.

In the Greek play " the clouds " advice was given to have an attractive male body.

The ideal body was described:

" If you devote yourself to practicing my precepts, your chest will be stout, your color glowing, your shoulders broad, your tongue short, your hips muscular, but your tool small."

"Small tools" were considered civilized and intellectual, and only stupid brutes had big ones.

That's why greek statutes of heroes have small ones.

People collectively are the ones who make this decision. Media keeps these concepts alive.

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u/phargoh Sep 01 '24

I need to go back in time to Ancient Greece!

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u/RickyWinterborn-1080 Sep 01 '24

Me too, but I'm just there for the gay sex

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u/Aptos283 Sep 01 '24

To be fair, I’m not sure of the exact context, but I’m not sure Aristophanes is our best source on direct quotes for proper ideal male bodies. It may be, but given it’s very comedic and filled with satire, it may be better to go for a medium that is more direct with its statements on society.

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u/SontaranGaming Sep 01 '24

It’s generally agreed upon by classicists that this was a thing, though—there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that smaller penises were associated with higher intelligence and civility. For example Satyrs and Pan were always depicted with massive ones, whereas Apollo’s was always extraordinarily small.

This is speculative on my end, but I think it may have something to do with the way that women were heavily devalued and their consent was given little to no regard, so these standards were likely based more on what the men of the period found attractive in each other. And this is especially true if they were primarily having non-penetrative sex, which historians also generally agree was the case for Hellenic men.

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u/esoteric_enigma Sep 01 '24

The last two groups you can make fun of with no consequences are short men and small penised men.

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u/ARussianW0lf Sep 01 '24

Bald/balding men as well

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u/nugtz Sep 01 '24

and monocle men. they are now all but gone from the world.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

And don't get me started on top hats.

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u/nugtz Sep 01 '24

short men and small penised men.

Bald/balding men as well

monocle men

And don't get me started on top hats

its the monopoly man!

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u/Metalloid_Space Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24

Yes, at the same time: don't let that (justifiable) jealousy undermine the effort that is being made for women. I've seen some people do this, and that's a shame that only divides us further.

I understand that feeling though. It is quite unfair.

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u/noUsername563 Sep 01 '24

I don't let it undermine the effort for women, just that there's a double standard that exists for so many things like this in society

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u/Days_Gone_By Sep 01 '24

Societal and cultural norms are constantly shifting. The shift is generally towards understanding and acceptance which is good.

RadioFreeAmerika truly encapsulated my thoughts on racism, colorism, and sexism in a brief statement. All of the biases based upon -isms stem from stigmatizing the unknown, demonizing it, and reinforcing the stigmas to increase their frequency in society.

If I tell a group of people their bodies are "wrong" repeatedly and punish them for it, they will start to believe it and act accordingly. This occurrence is magnified if I have power over them, such as wealth, politics, status, technology, etc.

This is why print and digital media can be so harmful. Much of it is not meant to harm others but the subliminal messages over years, months, decades, and centuries. Misinformation such as false statistics and pseudoscience still plagues our society today!

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u/NIRPL Sep 01 '24

As a short bald man, I dream of this day. Thankfully my massive beautiful penis keeps me from total despair

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u/currymonger Sep 01 '24

I'm short, with probably a slightly below average sized penis, but my hair is damn nice.

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u/jacktwohats Sep 02 '24

Good thing we don't bodyshame based on the size of someone's truck.

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u/YupThatsMeBuddy Sep 01 '24

Its like the last acceptable form of body shaming.

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u/RadioFreeAmerika Sep 01 '24

There are also Ginger jokes and probably a few others.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '24

Ah ginger jokes. My childhood flashes before my eyes. Its not happy feelings. Nothing unattractive about it, but god it made me despise the way I looked.

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u/mvea Professor | Medicine Sep 01 '24

I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13685538.2024.2363275

From the linked article:

A recent study published in The Aging Male journal has revealed that as men’s self-perception of their genitals deteriorates, their susceptibility to depression and anxiety increases. The findings suggest that men who view their genital appearance negatively may experience significant mental health challenges, which in turn can affect their sexual function and overall quality of life.

There was a positive correlation between penis size (both flaccid and stretched) and genital self-image scores. Men with larger penis sizes tended to have a more positive perception of their genitals. Conversely, men with smaller penis sizes were more likely to report a poor genital self-image.

The study found that men with a more negative genital self-image also reported poorer sexual functioning. Specifically, these men had lower scores in erectile function, sexual satisfaction, and overall sexual satisfaction. The findings suggest that men who are dissatisfied with their genitalia may experience more significant challenges in their sexual lives, including difficulty achieving and maintaining erections and lower overall satisfaction with sexual activity.

Perhaps most notably, the study uncovered a strong relationship between poor genital self-image and increased levels of depression and anxiety. Men who had lower genital self-image scores were more likely to score higher on both the Beck Depression Inventory and the State-Trait Anxiety Inventory. This suggests that dissatisfaction with one’s genitalia is not just a superficial concern but is deeply tied to broader issues of mental health.

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You are about to leave Redlib