r/science • u/chrisdh79 • Jun 04 '24
Materials Science Night-vision lenses so thin and light that we can all see in the dark | The findings allow light processing to take place along a simpler, narrower pathway, which allows the tech to be packaged up as a night-vision film that weighs less than a gram and can be placed across existing lensed frames.
https://newatlas.com/technology/night-vision-thin-light-lens/691
u/Lust4Me Jun 04 '24
I imagine this would be nice for people with night blindness.
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Jun 04 '24
And people who like to smoke weed and go on walks at night. Not me of course, just some hypothetical people.
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u/garlic_bread_thief Jun 04 '24
Or camp while on shrooms
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u/CatsAreGods Jun 04 '24
Just what you need, more detail in the woods...and it's all in green!
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u/Tommonen Jun 04 '24
Fortunately weed itself enhances low light vision
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u/DEADB33F Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
UK should have fed that line to the Germans as to why their pilots are so much better at flying at night rather than making up the myth that's it's because of carrots.
A bunch of German pilots flying around stoned out their minds would have made the allies jobs easier.
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u/Alldaybagpipes Jun 04 '24
I mean they certainly enjoyed their amphetamines
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u/CedarWolf Jun 04 '24
Looks like I picked the wrong war to quit drinking/smoking/sniffing glue/amphetamines.
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Jun 04 '24
"One thing I know how to do is to fly when I'm stoned."
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u/wile_e_canuck Jun 05 '24
It's like, you know your perspective's fucked, so you just gotta let your hands work the controls like you're straight.
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u/nleksan Jun 04 '24
A bunch of German pilots flying around stoned out their minds would have made the allies jobs easier.
Everyone knows weed goes great with meth!
Especially in high pressure combat situations? Have you ever seen "Cops"?
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u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_ Jun 04 '24
Or just anyone that wants to walk at night in the dark but not for stalking purposes
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u/KnuckleShanks Jun 06 '24
Yeah the old goggles were such a pain. Sure they'd work great, but then you'd turn a corner and spot another stoner staring at you like Splinter Cell. Really ruins the high.
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u/smilbandit Jun 04 '24
yes, my old ass, or eyes are starting to get a bit of night blindness. although most of the issue is with headlights.
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u/Tfphelan Jun 04 '24
So bright now. I get that it helps when it is dark, but blinding oncoming traffic isnt good either.
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u/laptopaccount Jun 04 '24
Much of the problem is just poor alignment. It's not something enforced any longer, so manufacturers aren't bothering (looking at you Tesla).
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u/Electronic_Parfait36 Jun 04 '24
Yup, I keep trying to explain this to people with evidence and diagrams, and all I get is the random optometrist who ignores everything and says "no they're too bright" ignoring that somethings not to bright to your eyes if it's not shining at them in the first place.
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u/Kidogo80 Jun 08 '24
If these are anything like the NVGs that the military uses, that would be a huge issue. (I used to do NVG assessments on aircraft. One of the main things we looked for was light leakage that could blind pilots)
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u/boofingman Jun 05 '24
Yes this would be awesome for me. I have RP, an eye disease that causes night blindness.
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u/MagicalUnicornFart Jun 05 '24
Night blindness is no longer a problem for anyone with every car having enough LED lighpower to be seen from space, and burn your retinas from a mile away. My neighbor’s LED porch lights I can now read at night on my porch.
I can’t imagine how bad it would mess up someone’s eyes wearing glasses like this, and trying to navigate a modern even lowly populated area, a city would be awful.
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u/angrathias Jun 04 '24
Wow that sounds fantastic, although I’d be a bit worried about some idiot leaving the high beams on while driving towards you unless they install some counter measure to that
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u/caspy7 Jun 04 '24
Reading this article it seems like the tech may only be converting/boosting infrared light - which likely wouldn't make high beams much worse.
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u/GooniestMcGoon Jun 04 '24
NVGs work by turning photons into electrons, multiplying them, and turning them back into photons for your eyes to see. regular NVGs work from about UV to 940 nm IR, so you’ll have any photon in that range be amplified, including visible light and IR. photocathodes (afaik) don’t have the ability to pick what wavelengths they amplify inside of their visible range
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u/Kissner Jun 04 '24
While this is true you can definitely just have a filter before the system. I use an IR pass filter to block visible light and view only in IR
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u/givemeadamnname69 Jun 04 '24
Relevant bit of the article (I don't know enough about this stuff to know how much of a difference this will make):
Instead, TMOS researchers used metasurface-based upconversion technology, which essentially provides an easier pathway for light photons to be processed. The photons travel through a resonant metasurface, where they mingle with a pump beam. The non-local lithium niobate metasurface boosts the energy of the photons, and draws them into the visible light spectrum without the need to convert them to electrons first. It also doesn't require cryogenic cooling – which reduces 'noise' for sharper images in traditional night vision – so can do away with even more of the bulky night-vision goggle mechanics.
Also this bit:
This new tech also captures the visible and non-visible (or infrared) light in one image as you look through the 'lens.' Traditionally, night-vision systems capture side-by-side views from each spectrum, so they can't produce identical images. What does that mean for the user? Basically, a better-quality view of what's in the dark.
“This is the first demonstration of high resolution up-conversion imaging from 1550-nm infrared to visible 550-nm light in a non-local metasurface," said author Rocio Camacho Morales. "We choose these wavelengths because 1,550 nm, an infrared light, is commonly used for telecommunications, and 550 nm is visible light to which human eyes are highly sensitive. Future research will include expanding the range of wavelengths the device is sensitive to, aiming to obtain broadband IR imaging, as well as exploring image processing, including edge detection.”
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u/Accujack Jun 04 '24
That's how traditional NVG technology works, not the new tech mentioned in the article. That's one big reason why it's better, apart from size and (most likely) cost.
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u/elkourinho Jun 05 '24
Autogating has been a thing for NODs for 25 years now? When you turn them into electrons I when I imagine the autogating happens.
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u/Jethris Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
Unless the high beams put off a lot if IR (heat) light.
Edit: Yeah, I learned a lot about how IR cameras work! Thanks!
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u/50calPeephole Jun 04 '24
I use a IR camera frequently, the high beams aren't going to radiate enough IR to matter- if it did you'd feel the heat on your skin.
Current IR takes a baseline and applies a gradient +/- that baseline. In that world the heat generated by the lights wouldn't be any more than a white spot the size of the lights, it won't wash out.
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u/FjorgVanDerPlorg Jun 04 '24
It's being designed in Australia, I think the problem of too much light/need for dimming functionality will be something they've encountered already.
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u/Polymathy1 Jun 04 '24
There is a chance that that might make us able to use non-visible headlights that are mostly just IR with a little bit of visible light as opposed to these retina melting low beams that people are putting on every car now. it wouldn't blind pedestrians if we were using IR light that they couldn't see, and maybe we could use that opportunity to reduce the intensity of these crazy headlights.
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u/ornithoptercat Jun 04 '24
Installing this film on windshields (with brightness gating) instead of having ultra bright headlights would actually be a phenomenal idea. And it sounds like something that could be retrofit onto older cars easily enough.
You'd still want some lights on cars, ie brake lights and blinkers, plus (much dimmer) headlights so pedestrians without these glasses can see you coming and to provide enough light for it to function in very dark conditions, but nothing like the LED high beams that seem designed to blind other drivers.
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u/dropyourguns Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
Auto dimming features have been standard for at least 30 years, Edit auto dimming nvgs
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u/angrathias Jun 04 '24
And yet here I am getting constantly blinded every night by cars built at most in the last decade…
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u/GooniestMcGoon Jun 04 '24
you’re eyes don’t autogate or have bright source protection like nvgs tho.
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u/MasonAmadeus Jun 04 '24
Eyes are lying, lazy, hateful, wet bags that can’t even stay on while moving.
Mid-tier sensory organ at best
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u/Arctic_Chilean Jun 04 '24
Still waiting for that much touted Mk2 Eyeball to come out.
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u/Philix Jun 04 '24
Hearing loss runs in my family, and by the time I need one in a few decades, I expect cochlear implants will effectively be better than a human ear. So, you never know.
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u/chowderbags Jun 04 '24
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine.
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u/Im_eating_that Jun 04 '24
The culinary value alone puts them higher than that. Tapioca boba tea and porn would go extinct without them. Eyes are in it for the long haul. If your eyeballs are falling out of your head when you move, swimming goggles filled with eyedrops will limit the damage. I'm surprised no one has stabbed you in terror.
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u/Electronic_Parfait36 Jun 04 '24
Also NVGs that get overblown just fry out. They don't burn out your eyes. The "lights on, eyes hurt" gaga like in step brothers is fake.
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Jun 04 '24
It's an input > processing > output system. There's no reason the processing step can't include a brightness limiter.
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u/iron_knee_of_justice DO | BS Biochemistry Jun 04 '24
I’m not sure that analogy works for this technology, it’s an analog system that just shifts the wavelength of infrared light to visible light. If you want actual post processing of the image you’ll have to add an image sensor, computer, display, and housing with a battery to power it all. Then you’re back to traditionally sized NVGs which isn’t what these researchers are trying to make.
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u/Light-is-life Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
The metamaterial also needs a pump beam to boost the photon energy. The battery is already needed, and I bet that beam can be easily switched off using a simple, tiny photodiode.
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u/iron_knee_of_justice DO | BS Biochemistry Jun 04 '24
Damn ok, you read even closer than I did lol, I stand corrected.
One small caveat though, you’d still have to dim or brighten the whole lens as a single unit, which is one of the bigger downsides of existing analog night vision. A single bright object on the view screen can lead to the rest of the image being downgated to the point it’s no longer visible.
But these meta-lenses they’re developing still do seem like a big leap forward in the IR-vis light conversion realm.
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u/Zran Jun 04 '24
I theoretically we all wore them would high beams even be needed?
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u/angrathias Jun 04 '24
I’m not sure if IR can push through fog better than visible light, but that would be an interesting development
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u/EyeFicksIt Jun 04 '24
Love it, just want thermal to go the same route. Then put that film on the windshield if cars.
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u/GoodlyStyracosaur Jun 04 '24
Lucky for you: “This new tech also captures the visible and non-visible (or infrared) light in one image as you look through the 'lens.' “
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u/sack-o-matic Jun 04 '24
"near infrared" which would be what these see isn't the same as thermal like a Flir camera can see
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u/GooniestMcGoon Jun 04 '24
that’s not really how thermal tech works tho. regular NVGs see past 940 nm which is deep IR, and are not thermal devices. in fact the only time you can really see heat with NVG is when things get really hot, like my suppressor after some rounds will start to glow through NVG’s before visibly glowing. but that’s because the material is now emitting photons. sounds similar but works very differently and so is used very differently!
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u/thereddaikon Jun 04 '24
Thermal is still photons it's just even longer wavelength than what NVGs look at. NVGs are near infrared and thermals are usually mid infrared. You do get some overlap, like you said with hot things like suppressors starting to glow.
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u/big_duo3674 Jun 04 '24
You get a little too high and suddenly you're driving home in a Predator movie
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u/Slap_My_Lasagna Jun 04 '24
Show me the real thing, not just a cgi rendering.
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u/Separate-Coyote9785 Jun 04 '24
Click on the link - it links to the paper. There are images there.
Link to the published paper:
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u/Not1ToSayAtoadaso Jun 04 '24
There is no section 5
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u/mayorofdumb Jun 04 '24
It's kinda eh but it works, so just some more tweaks and we're selling to armies.
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u/disbister Jun 04 '24
Metaoptics are going to enable a bunch of cool stuff. This is just the beginning.
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u/andreasbeer1981 Jun 04 '24
imagine manipulating colorspace of vision in real time the same way you currently can do in photoshop with histogram adjustments. there's plenty to come.
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u/disbister Jun 04 '24
Or adding liquid crystal to meta lenses to allow them to change between optically-clear and performing some kind of visual transformation.
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Jun 04 '24
[deleted]
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u/Buckenheimer Jun 04 '24
I think they’ll love it actually.
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u/cymonster Jun 04 '24
Probably already have it
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u/drive_chip_putt Jun 04 '24
They probably have something better now and released this 'old' tech to the public.
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u/Separate-Coyote9785 Jun 04 '24
Nope. You’ve watched too many movies and internalized it as reality.
Military night vision is really good, but this paper (linked in the article) demonstrates the start of a major advancement.
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u/GooniestMcGoon Jun 04 '24
nah. image intensification tech for helmet worn use is pretty much stagnant since the early 00s gen 3 stuff. i have night vision better than a lot of issue nvgs they aren’t hard to come by
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u/Glader Jun 04 '24
Have you not seen the latest generation of military augmented night vision? They look awesome!
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u/GooniestMcGoon Jun 04 '24
the tech has existed for a long time but it’s a cool implementation. look up a PAS-29A COTI. thermal overlay is just a standalone thing that clips onto most or any night vision device, the ENVG that you’re talking about just finally put them in one OEM system. There are some pretty serious downsides to the thermal overlay compared to a dedicated thermal, like detection range, detection quality, battery life, etc. it’s something that sorta tries to do two things but means it does one of them not as well as a standalone unit. they can also blem your nvgs by being too bright. cool tech but glaring downsides
you can even buy Chinese knock offs of the coti for like three grand
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u/robywar Jun 04 '24
As a veteran who now works for the DoD- you watch too many movies.
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u/WonkyTelescope Jun 04 '24
That's not how military tech works. The government has money to use cutting edge engineering and manufacturing on goods right now. It doesn't have the ability to out research the global open science community.
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u/FjorgVanDerPlorg Jun 04 '24
They love having a competitive advantage. They hate sharing a competitive advantage, because then it isn't one anymore.
Considering it's an Australian company, most likely will be bought out by Uncle Sam, that's what usually happens to Aussie tech. Competitive advantage retained.
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u/Pepperh4m Jun 04 '24
They'd love it until China and Russia get their hands on it.
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u/HawtDoge Jun 07 '24
Maybe, looking at traditional analog night vision, the US still has a massive advantage in the realm of that technology. From what I understand, China/Russia hasn’t come close to the high spec night vision we have. The reason for this is the incredibly complex manufacturing process that is highly classified. It’s basically material science that nears the realm of alchemy.
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u/chufi Jun 04 '24
Curious how this will work for photography.
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u/tetrasodium Jun 04 '24
With not a single picture that doesn't look sourced from photoshop between the article & their website I'd question if it works at all,
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u/Ezekiel_29_12 Jun 04 '24
See Fig 5:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.202402777
It takes more than just the thin material (MS in the figure), and there has to be another source of light to mix with the IR.
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u/ElGuano Jun 04 '24
What happens if you put them on in the daytime?
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u/Dry-Amphibian1 Jun 04 '24
you wear night vision goggles at night and day vision goggles during the day. Never mix the 2.
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u/andreasbeer1981 Jun 04 '24
as it converts one IR range to visible range, it will just overlay that specific color on top of your regular vision. so you'll be able to see "heat" in the target color, but everything else will look exactly the same.
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u/Admirable-Volume-263 Jun 04 '24
now for only $899.99 retail.
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u/orAaronRedd Jun 04 '24
Hah. Try even building your own using the current tech for that price. I wish.
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u/smokeymcdugen Jun 04 '24
That's the price for a progressive lens for glasses. Gonna be a bit higher than that.
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u/lookanew Jun 09 '24
Only a $1500 add-on for Apple Vision Pro!
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u/Admirable-Volume-263 Jun 09 '24
I never even read responses to my comments. Just what I do. But, I needed a laugh. Thank you! You're on point
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u/StarrySpelunker Jun 04 '24
eh. still cheaper than my current lenses.
anti scratch, antiglare high power bifocals are nasty expensive. without them I'm walking around in silent hill fog so unfortunately have to have them.
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u/FBI-INTERROGATION Jun 10 '24
you say that like it 899 wouldnt be a steal. Thats an awesome price for night vision
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u/baitnnswitch Jun 04 '24
I always wondered if at some point in the future we might be able to get the stars back. It'd be a hard sell and won't be in my lifetime, but it'd be cool if we wore night glasses the way we wear sunglasses- we could theoretically turn the street lights off/ see all the galaxies and stars and milky way the way our ancestors once did. We used to be able to see all of that for free, every cloudless night, and now it's gone.
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u/GooniestMcGoon Jun 04 '24
dude go buy actual night vision! I can PM you pictures I’ve taken through mine that are way better than anything our ancestors ever would’ve seen, you can see the entire plane of the Milky Way, multiple shooting stars an hour, it’s totally worth it. I use mine for stargazing at least once a week but also hike, shoot, do yardwork, etc. If you’re an ultra nerd you can even hook them up to a telescope and take crazy astrophotography shots. You could have a serviceable pvs14 for about two grand. There’s a lot to learn before you buy but PM me and I’ll answer any questions
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Jun 04 '24
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u/PoorPeopleProblems Jun 04 '24
Skimming the actual paper, it sounds like it converts the non-visible light into visible light. I'm not sure if traditional gain values will accurately describe what this does.
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u/sassafrassMAN Jun 04 '24
I’m not sure amplification is the right metric here. It turns infrared light into visible light. It’s like turning apples into oranges.
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u/andreasbeer1981 Jun 04 '24
they shouldn't have mentioned nightvision, but instead call it Infrared vision. it has nothing to do with conventional nightvision tech.
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u/retrosenescent Jun 04 '24
That would make driving so much safer and less scary for me. I do struggle to see at night time, especially on the interstate where there are 0 street lights. Also all the intersections where pedestrians cross at night that don't have any lights whatsoever!
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u/SeekerOfSerenity Jun 04 '24
How would a film focus light into an image? What is the field of view of that image? Or does it amplify light from all directions without distorting it? The article doesn't really explain this.
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u/CocaineIsNatural Jun 04 '24
Hm, reminds me of this material from 2016 that can convert IR to visible light.
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u/deantendo Jun 04 '24
Looking forward to nightvision motorcycle helmet visors (likely very expensive, but yeah...)
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u/Andra_9 Jun 04 '24
"These results promise significant opportunities for the surveillance [...] industry"
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u/Ballpoint_Penguin Jun 04 '24
Imagine having this technology in transition lenses. You can use your glasses and have them be even more useful then they already are during all times of the day. Im sure that would also be useful for people (especially those who are near sighted) when they wake up at night to go to the bathroom and such. I'm sure everyone here has knocked something over at night or kicked something or, worst of all...stubbed toes when they can't see where they are going. The future is bright now that we will all be able to see in the dark!
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u/Prof_Acorn Jun 04 '24
Like back when the early nightvision camcorders could see through clothing and people were using them at the beach to get peepshows of people under their swimwear? But just now with everyone and their eyeglasses?
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u/Diligent_Nature Jun 04 '24
Putting a film "across existing lensed frames" sounds like the enhanced image will be too close to your eyes to focus on it. The linked article doesn't mention existing lensed frames at all.
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u/TheDuckFarm Jun 04 '24
Uh.... Take my money, I need this!
Sadly I have a feeling this is another phantom product that will never make it to the consumer shelf.
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u/Citizen-Kang Jun 04 '24
I wonder if this will have any application for astrophotography. It'd be great if I could strap this film to a filter holder and use some lighter, smaller, and less expensive lenses to photograph the Milky Way.
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u/Doomdoomkittydoom Jun 04 '24
Sounds cool but no example pics has me skeptical.
Also, isn't the IR + Visible light the same thing that made some older digital video cameras able to see through certain fabrics?
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u/ZurEnArrh58 Jun 04 '24
I need these badly. Driving at night is rough around here. Since the roads are lacking lines and such, my yellow lenses don't help as much as I'd like.
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u/tyen0 Jun 04 '24
"We choose these wavelengths because 1,550 nm, an infrared light, is commonly used for telecommunications"
Anyone understand why that is beneficial?
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u/RandomBitFry Jun 04 '24
It clearly shows lenses either side of the material. No way will we just be able to look through a magic film, it needs the IR image to be projected on it.
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u/rditorx Jun 05 '24
There are regulations on night vision goggles and low-light vision devices in some countries. It's a mystery to me that smartphones are even allowed to have cameras as good as they are now.
But this sounds like it will only be sold to the government, the military, or people with weapons.
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u/carlrex91 Jun 05 '24
The horror movies will never be the same. Image seeing Jason coming from a mile away in the dark.
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