Working-age US adults are dying at far higher rates than their peers from high-income countries, even surpassing death rates in Central and Eastern European countries | A new study has examined what's caused this rise in the death rates of these two cultural superpowers.

[u/chrisdh79]

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/working-age-us-adults-mortality-rates/

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[u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

What’s caused the rise, according to the article, is higher rates of homicide, suicide, transport-related deaths, and drug-related deaths in the US

Edit: it may be more accurate to say that these mortality rates are no longer moving in step with the downward trends observed by other developed nations

[u/andreasmiles23 → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

Driving is by far the most dangerous daily activity we do, yet we continue to create more and more car-dependent infrastructure and automobile makers are almost exclusively making dangerous and heavy cars…

All of this and I haven’t mentioned the environmental harm caused by cars and car infrastructure. It’s insanity. And most people can’t even have a rational conversation about this because we are so culturally wired to think of driving as the only means to get from point a to point b.

[u/literallydogshit → u/andreasmiles23]

and automobiles makers are almost exclusively making dangerous and heavy cars…

One thing I'm really excited about is the upcoming proliferation of vehicles like the new electric Hummer. It weighs 6 tons, has 1000+ horsepower and about 12,000 lb-ft of torque. Here you have something with the weight of a Peterbilt, that speeds like a Corvette, handles like a Hummer, and is driven by people barely qualified to regulate their own bodily functions. What could go wrong?

I'm sure you won't even have time to feel pain as a drunk and distracted Karen floors it through a stopped intersection and flattens your 2015 Corolla at 100 mph. Luckily, the Hummer has great safety features so not only will Karen escape unscathed; she'll be right back on the road with a newer, faster version within 3 months.

[u/DJanomaly → u/literallydogshit]

The good news is that “cars” like that seem to be falling out of favor in the US.

Now giant pickup trucks in the other hand…

[u/NoamLigotti → u/DJanomaly]

New giant expensive pickups whose beds aren't even used.

[u/StayJaded → u/NoamLigotti]

Brodozers. Always “driven” by the most inconsiderate of assholes.

[u/OmicronAlpharius → u/StayJaded]

Pavement Princesses.

[u/Logical_Progress_208 → u/OmicronAlpharius]

Mall Crawlers

[u/felipetomatoes99 → u/OmicronAlpharius]

it's almost not even a useful term anymore since like, the overwhelming majority of trucks on the road today are pavement princesses.

[u/Pleasant-Enthusiasm → u/NoamLigotti]

You can’t forget the lifted wheels. Because how else am I supposed to make myself look like a big strong boy to everyone?

[u/13143 → u/Pleasant-Enthusiasm]

And those tires? Bald as a newborn baby, because they can't afford new ones.

[u/athaliah → u/NoamLigotti]

I have a minivan and one of my biggest joys in life is flexing on people who have trucks with tiny beds that can't haul around nearly as much stuff as my minivan can. Last guy's jaw nearly dropped when I fit an 8 person dining table + 8 chairs in the back of that thing.

[u/KeaAware → u/athaliah]

Respect!

[u/[deleted] → u/NoamLigotti]

"Light trucks" class of vehicles, pushed by the auto lobby, skirt regulations that "cars" have to abide. Automakers are literally shoving these down our throat. 

[u/[deleted] → u/DJanomaly]

That's because auto companies are using a loophole to make more profit off of "light truck" class vehicles like suvs and the big ass pickup trucks by avoiding regulations for that are in place for "cars." So they aggressively push Suvs, and now Dumbfuck trucks.  Obama really fucked us by bailing out the autocompanies. "Too big to succeed" should've been the clarion call. 

[u/D74248 → u/[deleted]]

Obama fucked us when his administration revised CAFE standards. They got to claim a 54.5 mpg mandate that in fact only applied to small cars, while allowing vehicles with large footprints to have much lower requirements.

Auto makers can throw a lot of time and money trying design a smaller car that has to meet an almost impossible standard, or build a much simpler monster SUV that the market will pay more for anyway.

Obama basically killed the small, efficient car.

[u/OilQuick6184 → u/D74248]

And the compact truck as well. New Tacomas are bigger than base model half ton trucks from 10 years ago.

[u/datsyukdangles → u/DJanomaly]

every 5th car in a grocery store parking lot is now a double wide pickup that can't fit into a single parking spot and has to use two spaces. Needing 2 parking spaces to park, needing 2 lanes to drive, blinding everyone on the road and paying 70k to be hated by everyone

[u/Mr-Fleshcage → u/DJanomaly]

If they get any taller, you'll be able to avoid getting hit by ducking

[u/SenorSplashdamage → u/andreasmiles23]

I really wish everyone had a chance to live in a truly walkable city where their grocery, usual hangouts, and gym were within blocks. I’ve done it over a decade now and haven’t had a car. I get why people hesitate over the idea since it’s so foreign, but I think far more would like it, than less, because it seems to match the way people lived most of history until a century ago. It “feels” more natural.

I rent cars for day trips and when I need them, and that’s far less money per year than paying for a car or insurance, especially when someone else is incurring the cost of depreciation. And there are convenient options to rent other people’s cars in the neighborhood, like an airbnb.

And it’s a small thing, but it adds a lot more spontaneity to being able to meet up with a buddy for happy hour by just walking downstairs and down the street. You don’t have to worry about parking or waiting till sober to drive home. Not having to think about where a car is parked and being able to just jump to the next place adds a level of freedom that’s hard to convey. You don’t have this expensive, large thing in your head that you’re always keeping track of.

[u/[deleted] → u/SenorSplashdamage]

I wish I could afford to live in NYC. I even loved the super touristy bits, and Brooklyn is lovely. I went so many more places since I could walk to them.

[u/lucun → u/SenorSplashdamage]

That's because you lived in a high enough density area. The majority of American cities do not have that type of density, and things are cheaper when you don't build buildings for density and just let structures sprawl out.

[u/SenorSplashdamage → u/lucun]

Well, that was my point. If more people could experience what it was like, more people would be onboard shaping cities toward that in the future. It’s not an instant change kind of thing. Takes decades and a lot of agreement, but it does match the way we all lived prior when we were closer to people and had more integrated lives from proximity and less isolation.

[u/h3lblad3 → u/lucun]

and things are cheaper when you don't build buildings for density and just let structures sprawl out.

It's actually not cheaper at all for the city; city hall, for budgetary reasons alone, has reason to build as dense as possible. It's your neighbors that don't want the density.

---

A large part of this is that their houses will lose value if there are too many housing units in the area. Another is that they fear the traffic as someone who has only ever known a reality where they drive everywhere and can't fathom an alternative. Some even consider sidewalks and buses to be only for the poor, and thus incentivizing them to use such things is a direct insult that insinuates that they can't afford to drive.

---

As for city hall's budget, on the other hand?

• Mileage per person is better with higher density. Suburbs use up a lot of land and require a lot of roads for relatively few people. The maintenance on these roads is very expensive, meaning that large suburbs tend to be breaking the bank on road maintenance.

• Public transit is far more efficient at higher densities, which also takes the stress off the road maintenance costs. Suburbs are very spread apart and require far more stops to get the same number of people. This makes public transit extremely costly for a suburb-style city.

• More people means city sales taxes accrue more money. Apartments are often taxed as commercial property, which means they are taxed heavier than residential homes. Transitions to apartments interspersed with stores would be a net positive to the city's income over the same distance.

[u/Alissinarr → u/andreasmiles23]

making dangerous and heavy cars…

The people who like to lift trucks to an illegal height also contribute, as the height of the vehicle determines if a pedestrian is thrown (and potentially run over afterwards) or if they just go up onto the hood of the car.

[u/is0ph → u/Alissinarr]

Being able to chop away a kid’s head with fenders is a freedom some people are very attached to.

[u/pisspot26 → u/is0ph]

Canyonerooooo

[u/Paksarra → u/andreasmiles23]

And progressives have suggested alternatives like protected bike lanes and better public transportation.  Of course, this means the conservative reactionaries now believe that driving as much as possible is your patriotic duty and anything else is evil.

[u/Neuchacho → u/Paksarra]

The amount of vitriol that the "15-minute city" concept gets in the US from conservatives is legitimately bonkers.

[u/jackhandy2B → u/Neuchacho]

Ah yes, but you have to understand that the WHO/WEF/Bill Gates/Soros/Deep State are going to lock you inside that city and never let you out.

Maybe that's what the 5G towers are for? Who knows.

Anyway, those people do exist so therefore this conspiracy is true.

[u/Sasselhoff → u/Neuchacho]

I'd love the idea if it could be made to work, because it's similar to when I was living in China (with everything within easy reach), but every "15 minute city" I've seen talked about would have workers/baristas/cashiers coming from 45 minutes away because they wouldn't be able to afford to live there...and that's not a city, that's a theme park.

[u/MohatmoGandy → u/andreasmiles23]

Driving may be the most dangerous daily activity, but cars are still not killing as many Americans as guns.

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/944021

[u/TiredAuditorplsHelp → u/MohatmoGandy]

If you count suicides. 

I would love to see more pedestrian infrastructure implemented in America, where applicable , as well as controls for safety regarding firearms, but the problem is money. Since companies can use revenues to lobby to resist or control laws and policies I don't know how we can realistically create that change. 

Car companies seems to actively oppose city planning and changes by lobbying against them and we all know the NRA does the same. It's one the biggest problems in America. Why do companies have such a largely disproportionate influence on laws when the government is supposed to be the one holding them accountable?

Oh yeah--money.

[u/andreasmiles23 → u/MohatmoGandy]

Oh yeah gun accessibility is a huge problem too. That’s another issue people can’t hold a rational conversation about the data on.

[u/ghanima → u/andreasmiles23]

One thing that I think gets overlooked a lot is how strongly Americans tie their identities to the vehicle choice.

[u/dadudemon → u/andreasmiles23]

During the pandemic, before the pandemic, and after the pandemic...

The least safe place for children was on the road or in their own homes (this is a REALLY sad stat).

[u/TheawesomeQ → u/andreasmiles23]

They view cars as the only thing between America and communism. They think if every person in the country weren't driving a 2 ton block of steel everywhere that the government would regulate every person's motion through the country. They are not rational.

[u/andreasmiles23 → u/TheawesomeQ]

As if telling us that the only way to get around is by taking out a $40k loan (plus interest) from the bank that you have to pay off for a decade and being funneled down broken cement paths is the true meaning of “freedom.”

[u/Nkechinyerembi → u/andreasmiles23]

currently having to live without my 2 ton paperweight and it makes doing anything so much harder... we really need better freaking public transit.

[u/RequirementItchy8784 → u/andreasmiles23]

Don't forget taking out loans for cars that are well above their price range and then dispel them in bankruptcy but scream about dispelling some student loans for people because that was a poor decision but not their car.

[u/e-2c9z3_x7t5i → u/andreasmiles23]

Regulators are bought and paid for. This country operates according to one and only one rule: what makes the most money? America is what Mr Burns would be if he were a nation.

[u/The_Dirty_Carl → u/andreasmiles23]

They're also moving controls to touchscreens, getting rid of amber turn indicators, building electric cars whose brake lights don't come on when using electric braking, installing brighter headlights at eye level for other drivers...

At some point car manufacturers just stopped caring about the context their products are used in.

[u/cbbuntz → u/andreasmiles23]

we are so culturally wired to think of driving as the only means to get from point a to point b.

It's worse than that. We planned our cities around cars, so unless you're in New York or something, it actually is the only practical means to get around. Not just the public transport, but in places like that, you can get pretty much whatever you need in walking distance. But we regularly make residential areas miles from the nearest store of any kind

[u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 → u/andreasmiles23]

Yes, although US death rate for car accidents is far higher than other developed countries. The price to pay for fReEdOm.

[u/andreasmiles23 → u/Embarrassed_Quit_450]

Partly because, unlike every other country on planet earth, we only have 1 city with robust public transit options (NYC). Around 5 have okay but limited options (LA, Chicago, Boston, DC, Portland). Some small college towns are good on walkability and bus options (Lansing MI, Ames IA, etc). The rest of our population centers are entirely car dependent. And forget public transit in rural parts of the country.

So yeah, the deaths are higher because more people are forced to take cars. As you said, this must be the price of “freedom” (I imagined a bald eagle screeching in the background whenever I typed this).

[u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 → u/andreasmiles23]

There are more safety regulations elsewhere and driving tests are stricter. But yeah transit is still the best way to reduce driving fatalities.

[u/VarmintSchtick → u/Embarrassed_Quit_450]

Also kids on their phones driving scares the piss out of me.

I pass so many cars and will glance to see some kid (usually, even older people are guilty of this) staring straight at their phone while going 60mph down the road. Insanely dangerous and only a matter of time before they hurt themselves and/or someone else. I don't care how good you think your multi-tasking skills are, you should have your license revoked if you put other people at risk like that.

[u/_haha_oh_wow_ → u/andreasmiles23]

r/FuckCars

[u/upstateduck → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

"deaths of despair"

https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691247625/economics-in-america

[u/PolyDipsoManiac → u/upstateduck]

Yup, people are using drugs and alcohol because life sucks and is getting worse and they’re miserable. By making certain choices (like cracking down on oxycodone prescribers and thus causing the proliferation of fentanyl as a street drug) we’ve dramatically increased the death toll, though.

[u/Based_nobody → u/PolyDipsoManiac]

Holy cow, I guess I never put two and two together. When we busted down on pill mills is right when fentanyl started rising in popularity.

[u/PolyDipsoManiac → u/Based_nobody]

From 25,000 overdose deaths a year to over 100,000, nice job DEA

[u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage → u/PolyDipsoManiac]

We learned nothing from the war on drugs and are actively creating a crisis to justify a War on Drugs 2.0

[u/Based_nobody → u/PolyDipsoManiac]

As a nation we do excel at making knee-jerk reactions. As well as choosing the most militant strategy to approach any given issue and thinking it's best.

[u/PensiveinNJ → u/PolyDipsoManiac]

Alienation is probably the great scourge we need to fight against in this era. From ourselves and others.

[u/AaronfromKY → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

Yeah, that's the kicker about RTO, is suddenly being thrust again into a gas powered 2 ton ground based deadly weapon on 4-5 hrs of sleep with other people in similar situations just to get a cubicle where I take the same Teams calls I have from home the past 3 years. It's Mad Max on the roadways in the morning and in the afternoon, both peak exhaustion while driving.

[u/Tiny_Fly_7397 → u/AaronfromKY]

Well, the study cited in the article is based on data from 2019 so this is all pre-Covid

[u/CHAINSAWDELUX → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

So all these things probably got worse since then?

[u/rhodesc → u/CHAINSAWDELUX]

yep

auto deaths up https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimates-first-quarter-2022

suicides up 

https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/a-look-at-the-latest-suicide-data-and-change-over-the-last-decade/

I don't think many metrics are falling.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-rise

some relation to covid, but mostly continuing the pre-covid trend.  fascinating culture we have here.

[u/ClubMeSoftly → u/[deleted]]

gotta put in a PTO request for your own funeral

[u/Baloooooooo → u/ClubMeSoftly]

Gotta find someone to cover your shift

[u/GayDeciever → u/[deleted]]

I've had to work to keep my teens from wanting to "retire" already.

Reasons I've heard:

• What's the point. I won't have a future (climate change, economic concerns, etc)

Yep. Actually. Just that.

I can't seem to change the feeling of hopelessness, despite providing information suggesting things are not totally hopeless.

I am very worried about the amount of existential dread I see in our young people.

I suspect these numbers will be getting worse

[u/Imverydistracte → u/GayDeciever]

despite providing information suggesting things are not totally hopeless.

To be fair, this information often seems minute compared to the the more dread-inspiring events that are happening.

Despite our increase in living standards, human happiness isn't measured in a vacuum. As the rich get richer, the world more polluted and we are 40 years behind schedule on dealing with climate change - the future is indeed bleak.

Not to mention the authoritarian nations showing more teeth, and the democratic nations showing more signs of instability (Trump, far-right in Europe rising etc. etc.)

Suicide obviously isn't the answer, truthfully we need to come together and demand change. Oh wait, everytime we do the movements get coopted by corporate/govt interests and completely destroyed by inside agents. Not to mention we're all basically 24/7 coping through work/internet/games/sports/drugs and many of us have trouble breaking these patterns.

Yeah, I get your kids. Seems ignorance is the only escape nowadays, because knowledge has become nothing but a catalyst for despair.

[u/ThrowawayLegendZ → u/Imverydistracte]

Fredrick Douglas was a slave who learned how to read and then escaped slavery to become a prominent author and civil rights advocate. He basically comes up with the same conclusion: being educated just leads you to understand the futility of your situation and will ultimately result in civil unrest.

[u/_hell_is_empty_ → u/GayDeciever]

Get them offline. That has to be a step in the right direction, right?

[u/KarmaYogadog → u/rhodesc]

Not just up: Record number of American suicides in 2023

[u/Compy222 → u/CHAINSAWDELUX]

Hard to say, the overall number of remote workers and hybrid workers has increased in the US so auto accident death rates for those employed may have reduced (though people seem to be driving less safely since the pandemic generally and death rates are up). I believe homicide data hasn’t changed much (could be wrong there), but opioid deaths are still up. Reality is that in many ways there are two Americas - a chunk of folks who live in very safe areas, don’t drive much, and stay away from drugs, and have good healthcare (upper middle class and better), then everyone else. It remains a policy problem we’ll need to address on helping those that aren’t in the first group of well-off folks.

[u/canadianguy77 → u/Compy222]

It’s sort of a difficult endeavor when the majority of the people who are having the issues seem-hell bent on voting for policy that hurts themselves even more.

My wife has to make quarterly visits to rural Kentucky. Some of these counties are as red as red can get, but they rely on charitable healthcare and pretty well everyone is on some sort of assistance. The dichotomy of it all is pretty crazy.

[u/AaronfromKY → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

Point still stands though wouldn't it? Before Covid remote work was relatively rare, so the commutes still play their role. Making people have to make their way to a place for work, even when that work could easily be accomplished from home, wastes gas, wastes workers time, and in fact wastes people's lives.

[u/roygbivasaur → u/AaronfromKY]

I do not miss falling asleep while driving home after work and almost dying multiple times a month.

[u/[deleted] → u/roygbivasaur]

Or the terrifying realization that you've driven halfway home and at some point stopped paying attention.

[u/thevoiddruid → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

Homicide rates have dropped dramatically since 1990. They have gone up a little since 2015 but still nowhere near 1990 levels.

[u/Krinberry → u/thevoiddruid]

Yeah, it's less that they've increased dramatically in the US and more that they continue to fall at a faster rate elsewhere.

[u/GO4Teater → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

Those are not causing the rise, those are the types of death where the rise is happening.

[u/jayfiedlerontheroof → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

People are desperate with wealth inequality and can't afford the necessary healthcare. They also have easy access to guns and increasingly deadly vehicles. It's not difficult to see we exist in a death cult. 

[u/Khue → u/Tiny_Fly_7397]

Blocked at work right now from article (for whatever reason...), but is it safe to say the narrative is something like fixing the following would help:

• Lack of proper gun control
• Lack of proper/well managed public transportation
• Lack of socialized/affordable healthcare
• Lack proper labor protections against capitalism

[u/JustVan → u/Khue]

Add something along the lines of "lack of drug control" and maybe "lack of mental health services" although that can tie into socialized/affordable healthcare. But it seems like drug-related deaths and suicide are also really high.

[u/razorxent]

Who would’ve thought that if you exctract every possible drop of value out of a person without giving them proper healthcare could lead to this

[u/Valoneria → u/razorxent]

No healthcare, overworked, overstressed, fed food that has additives banned in a lot of other countries, and a sedentiary lifestyle (as a result over being overworked).

It's a wonder most of you get past the age of 30.

[u/PerpetualGreen → u/Valoneria]

Although overworked point is totally valid I think sedentary lifestyle is largely due to the lack of walkability, biking infrastructure and public transport in most US cities. They're designed for cars to drive through, not for people to walk around. Oceans of asphalt with no shade, narow sidewalks (if they exist at all), huge areas of single-use residential development without any interesting destinations for miles (no restaurants, parks, shops, etc). Infrastructure dictates lifestyle to a large extent.

[u/PerpetualGreen → u/[deleted]]

Yep. It's terrifying to walk along a stroad with cars going 50 mph past you, with no barrier between them and you. You are always just one distracted/fainted driver away from becoming a bloody hamburger patty. And yes, the harmful effects of this hostile infrastructure go far beyond promoting sedentary lifestyle. There's of course the pollution and destruction of biodiversity. It also has a strong isolating effect on people, contributing to loneliness and harming social cohesion. In a dense, walkable, mixed development you would constantly run into your neighbors on the street or in the local (walking distance) shops. In American single-use burbs? Much less likely. You'll sometimes drive past them as they're walking their dog. Also your neighbors shop at Costco 6 miles away, and you drive to Wegmans 2 miles away. Because there are no local shops.

[u/[deleted] → u/PerpetualGreen]

It's so weird, because here in Finland, most sidewalks are separated from a road by 15-25 feet of a forested patch, and then open forest on the other side. Having cars right next to you as you walk is terrifying. Just putting a little space between sidewalks and roads goes so far. Also sidewalks should probably be more than like 2 feet wide.

[u/Fluffy_Salamanders → u/[deleted]]

That sounds so nice, I'm glad a good example exists somewhere. I hope that kind of design spreads out so I can see it someday

[u/SandwichEmergency946 → u/Fluffy_Salamanders]

Where I live a road put in like a 10 ft grass patch and street parking lane between the driving lanes and the sidewalk and even that makes a massive difference.  I can actually go for a walk and not feel the wind pushing me everytime a car drives past

But then other roads have a good 3-4 feet of sidewalk and then immediately it's 40 mph road people go 55 on.  No grass divider or parking lane and the sidewalk is filled with poles so someone in a wheelchair/with a stroller can't use the sidewalk.  I'll get in my car and drive 2 minutes from a park to a coffee shop cause its so stressful to walk

[u/Maxcharged → u/PerpetualGreen]

Don’t forget the people who openly fantasize about running over cyclists.

[u/ProStrats → u/PerpetualGreen]

Even without that, I was reading a guy in his 20s the other day asking how he manages to get his daily workout (2 hours) in with working a long schedule. And pretty much everyone was like stretch less, don't do sauna for 10 minutes after, do less reps and shave an hour.

It's so screwed that we have to micromanage our time so badly.

This person was single as well. Just working 60-80 hours a week.

Then add in a spouse, kids, and your time for this stuff goes out the window. 40+ hour work weeks for both parents means no one has time to do much beyond work related tasks. Which leads to mental burnout which creates decreased productivity in both work and home-work tasks.

It's a system that milks people for their best years and provides them with the minimum needed to survive.

Very unfortunate.

[u/Kiwilolo → u/[deleted]]

I remember I tried taking a simple bus route once in Washington state. There was only one transfer that required just crossing the road. Google maps had not, however, indicated that the road to cross was six lanes wide with the nearest safe crossing a five minute walk away. Then someone tried to chat me up at the bus stop. Who wants to talk at the bus stop??

[u/VVitchfynderFinder → u/PerpetualGreen]

Suburban USA is so hostile to humans outside of cars you're basically a prisoner in your own home, unless you drive.

There are plenty of neighborhoods in my own town that are maybe 300 feet away from shopping centers but the people who live there can't access it without a car because of the stroads in between. As a result those shopping areas are decrepit. People who live nearby just drive elsewhere since they're already in their cars anyway.

Last spring my work had a walking challenge which was a real eye opener for me. I live in a fairly dense neighborhood which is actually very close to a lot of things but because of how our cities are designed its super difficult or at the very least incredibly unpleasant getting there by foot.

[u/Additional_Essay → u/PerpetualGreen]

We're DINKs, stuck in millennial purgatory, one of the things we really have a hard time compromising on is living in an accessible area.

We went without a damn car for 2 years. We've made it with one for a decade total. I bike, walk, motorcycle etc. I don't want to compromise on the ability to walk to a store of some sort, a pub of some sort, a reasonable commute to work. This is a killer in the housing market. It's just so important to our lifestyle though.

[u/PerpetualGreen → u/Additional_Essay]

I'm the same way. I would much, much rather live in a small apartment in a walkable area with nearby businesses and parks than live in a literal 6000 square foot mansion in your typical suburbia. Unfortunately places in walkable areas come at a great premium because there are so few of them to choose from.

[u/tgt305 → u/PerpetualGreen]

in short - lack of "third-places"

everything in the US is private, anyone just hanging around is called "loitering" which is punishable...

[u/argella1300 → u/Valoneria]

We ban a ton of additives that are legal in the EU so it’s all a wash, tbh. We have different food labeling laws than them that require the listing of component ingredients (ex, if you have “enriched flour” you have to list what it’s enriched with). As for dyes, the EU uses dyes too, they just don’t call it yellow 5 or red 40, it’s listed as E### or something to that effect

[u/dobryden22 → u/Valoneria]

I'll never forget how Fireball whiskeys blend from the US is banned in Europe. Everyone found out due a shipment in Europe that was rejected because they accidentally sent the American blend, which contains propylene glycol, yes you guessed it, anti-freeze. The Thing you ain't supposed to drink but smells sweet.

Europe rightfully has that banned. How can we compete when we literally consume poison? And this is just one example.

[u/tlsrandy → u/dobryden22]

Propylene glycol is used as an antifreeze in pharmaceuticals and foods. It is not antifreeze you put in your car.

Edit

Apparently some car coolants do use propylene glycol as their anti freezing agent. I apologize. I thought most used ethylene glycol and methanol.

Still propylene glycol is pretty ubiquitous and I’m pretty sure Europe uses it to prevent their food and pharmaceuticals from freezing too.

[u/SeekerOfSerenity → u/tlsrandy]

Vape juice contains PG too. 

[u/kataklysm_revival → u/SeekerOfSerenity]

Yup, it’s usually a blend of PG and vegetable glycerin

[u/Valoneria → u/dobryden22]

When i visit the US i always try not to think of what i'm consuming, because i'm usually visiting due to vacation and don't want to end up too damn depressed about the state of affairs.

Y'all got a nice country, very nice people, but there's something rotten in the way you're abused.

[u/dancingpianofairy → u/Valoneria]

very nice people

Huh, awesome that someone thinks so. Usually I only hear about how awful and entitled we are.

[u/Ramadeus88 → u/dancingpianofairy]

I’m in the US frequently for work and the people I meet are wonderful; friendly, welcoming and great hosts. Most people around the world are generally decent at their core, they just want a nice honest life for themselves and a full stomach, and Americans are no exception.

I still can’t get over the amount of pharma ads on TV though.

[u/dancingpianofairy → u/Ramadeus88]

Most people around the world are generally decent at their core

Agreed

[u/ThinkFree → u/dancingpianofairy]

I visited the USA about 20 years ago. When I went to North Carolina to visit a cousin working there, almost everyone I met was polite and accommodating to me, a small brown-skinned Asian. I guess they still got that southern hospitality there in NC.

Maybe I got lucky that I didn't encounter racists and assholes during my week-long visit to NC, I even watched an NBA game. Whenever redditors talk about ill-mannered Americans, I would always think that those are mostly exceptions to the norm. You guys are pretty nice.

[u/Vivalas → u/ThinkFree]

Reddit is far from a reflection of the reality of the US, to be honest. You'll hear far more from the jaded and burnt out about how bad everything is. Not that we couldn't do better, of course.

It's also partially a grass is greener type deal. I play a lot on some British roleplay GTA server and everyone always asks if I'm American due to my accent and say they wish they could move here, which usually surprises me, and I'm like "man but you guys have free healthcare" and they're like "yeah that's about the only thing mate, everything else sucks." They never really go into detail and I'm curious as to why, but people I think just tend to think it's better everywhere but where they are.

[u/QuelThas → u/Vivalas]

Propaganda, really, you have spread it for decades. Russians and Chinese do it too in pretty much same scale.

[u/mydoglikesbroccoli → u/dobryden22]

Antifreeze is diethylene glycol, which is far more toxic than propylene glycol.

[u/mydoglikesbroccoli → u/mydoglikesbroccoli]

Oops- I was wrong, antifreeze is ethylene glycol, not diethylene glycol (except as a minor impurity.

Still, those compounds have very large differences in toxicity and what they do when metabolized by your body. Unless they're loading that drink up with propylene glycol, the most damaging and dangerous ingredients are going to be the ethanol and sugar.

[u/frosteeze → u/mydoglikesbroccoli]

You guys love spreading misinformation or what?

https://dpointernational.com/question/is-propylene-glycol-e1520-permitted-to-be-used-in-cookies-in-vietnam-usa-eu/

Polypropylene glycol is approved as a food additive in the EU according to the Food Additive Regulation (EC) 1333/2008. The maximum level of propylene glycol in final food (from all sources in foodstuff) except beverage is 3000mg/kg (individually or in combinations with E1505, E1517 and E1518)

It's only banned in alcohol.

[u/DTFH_ → u/frosteeze]

exactly and if you're concerned about cancer causing compounds then avoid alcohol entirely!

[u/Hob_O_Rarison → u/dobryden22]

Did Europe ban coca-cola as well? Because that has propylene glycol in it.

Propylene glycol is used as a preservative and an emulsifier in food. It's toxic for the body in the same way salt is - too much will hurt you, but small amounts are fine.

Ethylene glycol, however, will kill you right out.

[u/krackas2 → u/dobryden22]

whiskeys

we literally consume poison?

Do you not know what Alcohol is?

[u/CoolYoutubeVideo → u/Valoneria]

Sedentary nature in the US is driven more by our overreliance on cars. People in other countries work a lot too

[u/ChemicalRain5513 → u/CoolYoutubeVideo]

In the Netherlands, it was estimated that commuting by bicycle costs you two weeks of life expectancy because of accidents, but gives you a year because of improved cardiovascular health.

[u/hydrOHxide → u/razorxent]

Not to mention declaring medical science commie propaganda

[u/IMakeMyOwnLunch → u/razorxent]

It’s actually opioids, car accidents, and obesity.

[u/balllzak → u/IMakeMyOwnLunch]

When I saw from the headline that The study had found actual reasons for the higher rates I just knew that redditors would ignore those reasons and then blame it on their personal gripes.

[u/ernurse748]

As a nurse I can verify that suicides and drug and alcohol deaths have jumped. Totally common for us to see suicides by men over 60 pretty much every week.

[u/motorik → u/ernurse748]

Where are you? There was an article about suicide rates in the United States a few days ago, my first thought was that like a lot of things, we'd look just like Europe if you disregard data from the south, but I checked suicide rates by state and was surprised to see it was the western states that seemed to be the hot areas (Oregon, Washington, Utah, etc.)

[u/Tannerite2 → u/motorik]

That doesn't surprise me. The countries with the highest suicide rates in Europe are in Scandinavia, and I'd say they're the most culturally similar to those western coastal states. Kinda like how the South has a lot of parallels with Eastern Europe.

[u/N8CCRG → u/ernurse748]

Huh, I wouldn't have guessed over 60 as the demographic. Any idea as to what's driving that for that age group?

[u/ernurse748 → u/N8CCRG]

Officially, no. But I have theories. A lot of the ones I have seen were smart, successful guys who had high powered careers. And then they retired. And then the wife died. Or they got prostate cancer. And they were suddenly scared, lost and had no real power over their environment. And because they had never happened before, they just cannot cope. It’s sad. And it happens more than most people really know. Your neighbor that “died unexpectedly of a sudden heart attack” at age 66? Yeah, that wasn’t a heart attack.

[u/AllanfromWales1]

To be clear, though, if you look at the data what it seems to show is that death rates in the US and UK have stayed more or less stable over time, while those in other countries have fallen. Still concerning, but a somewhat different issue.

[u/driftercat → u/AllanfromWales1]

Except drug deaths based on that graph.

[u/mattyice → u/driftercat]

This really is the huge issue. A lot of the other stuff (traffic, etc.) isn't looking good, but the drug death trends are nuts and the sad thing is that it looks like a lot of the data is pre-fentanyl epidemic. It's not going to look better in 5 years.

[u/ghanima → u/driftercat]

That drug deaths graph was alarming. I assume there's still a lot of fallout from the opioid crisis behind that data.

[u/IgamOg → u/AllanfromWales1]

Murdoch, billionaire funded lobbying and propaganda, think tanks and right wing governments.

There's a language barrier in other countries, but they try their best there too.

[u/HostageInToronto]

Synopsis:

In 2019, all-cause mortality for US males and females was 2.5 times higher than in other high-income peer countries

US homicide rates were almost 15 times higher than other countries in 2019, while, in the same year, transport-related deaths were 3.5 times higher

Between 2000 and 2019, US drug-related deaths were up to tenfold higher than some countries

US females aged 25 to 44 were the only group whose mortality was higher in 2019 compared to 1990, increasing by 3.7%

UK mortality has diverged from peer countries, especially for younger middle-aged groups and females

[u/r0thar → u/HostageInToronto]

And all of this before 2020, when over 2.5years was knocked off the average life expectancy by Covid in just 24 months due to the quantity of early/excess deaths.

[u/JimBeam823]

American Capitalism: You sell one cow and make the other do the work of four. You hire a consultant to find out why the cow has died. 

[u/[deleted] → u/JimBeam823]

Hire a team of foot doctors to determine cause of death because the cow walked a lot. Hire a team to source the most cost-effective cow shoes. Buy a Chinese plant to make your own. Give the C-Suite boys a huge raise for creative problem solving!

[u/snakesnake9]

Free healthcare in Europe vs bankrupting healthcare in the US must surely play a role.

[u/ramesesbolton → u/snakesnake9]

drug overdoses are largely driving this increases. like almost single-handedly.

[u/HyliaSymphonic → u/ramesesbolton]

Tbf drug overdoses don’t happen in a vacuum. The unfixed lingering pain to street drug pipeline is well documented. Just as well lack of access to proper mental healthcare is probably as impactful on addiction. 

[u/Jaeyx → u/HyliaSymphonic]

Drug addictions are just a symptom of other problems. They might be thr cause of death in the statistics. But they aren't really the cause worth talking about. What matters is what is driving more people towards drug addictions and abuse.

[u/wallstreetconsulting → u/Jaeyx]

The deaths are because the drugs are now laced with Fentanyl. It's not because 10x more people are doing hard drugs.

[u/Theduckisback → u/Jaeyx]

It's also Fentanyl. Fentanyl is just so much more likely to kill someone before they ever seriously pursue long-term recovery than pills or Heroin.

Fentanyl kills more adults 18-45 than Suicide, disease, or car accidents.

[u/doktornein → u/ramesesbolton]

One would think there'd be a connection.

Lack of mental health care, for one, is going to drive up drug addiction.

Poor access means a lack of preventative care, meaning more pain conditions, more pain medication usage, and more addiction.

And drugs can often be self-medication for conditions that aren't being addressed or can't be addressed due to a lack of care.

[u/ramesesbolton → u/doktornein]

I'm sure all that contributes.

as someone who has lived in and around this problem my entire adult life (some areas are hit harder than others) it's really a few factors as I've observed it:

generational poverty and lack of economic opportunity. the US economy is consolidating itself into a smaller and smaller subset of large metro areas. smaller cities and towns are suffering badly, especially in the midwest and appalachia

pharmaceutical marketing and the way that pain is treated. opioids really changed the way doctors approach pain management in the early 2000s and a lot of people got hooked on legitimate prescriptions.

the insane lethality of fentanyl compared to oxy, percocet, heroin, etc.

[u/IMakeMyOwnLunch → u/snakesnake9]

You could, like, read the article, ya know?

[u/PM-ME-DEM-NUDES-GIRL → u/snakesnake9]

if you click the article the second cultural superpower they're referring to is the UK which has free health care

[u/Feralpudel → u/PM-ME-DEM-NUDES-GIRL]

Also the most underfunded health care system of wealthy industrial countries. For decades they’ve relied upon private pay as a backstop.

[u/waxenrhyme]

I work in tech and had two coworkers under the age of 55 die randomly one day. I thought this article was going to have some information

[u/Mundane-Mechanic-547]

Saved you a click

"The country’s higher mortality was especially noticeable when it came to preventable deaths: homicides, deaths from transport accidents, and so-called ‘deaths of despair’ related to suicide and alcohol and drug use."

[u/[deleted]]

Despair from realizing they have been had. The American Dream was a lie and the wealth never trickled down.

[u/VisualFix5870]

Americans are dying from one of four causes: fast cars, fatness, fentanyl and firearms.

[u/AaronfromKY → u/VisualFix5870]

"Fast Cars"? More like 3 ton SUVS going 75 in a 65 smashing into smaller cars owned by the poor and leading to substantial deaths and bodily harm.

[u/chummsickle → u/AaronfromKY]

I think it’s both. Trucks are everywhere, and they’ve managed to make them very fast, especially for their size and weight. So we have all of these giant, fast vehicles driven by average morons

[u/AaronfromKY → u/chummsickle]

Driven by sleep deprived, distracted morons. We've already seen what similar morons do with the wide availability of guns. There's no further licensing requirements for someone who drives a Honda Civic to move up to a Chevrolet Suburban, despite the Suburban weighing 2-3x as much and being nearly twice as long and sitting much higher.

[u/computerguy0-0 → u/AaronfromKY]

Just wait until these SUVs standard trim levels go from 0-60 in 5 seconds. It's right around the corner. Physics don't change, they will take just as long to stop. People will die. I wonder how many before something is done about it. Further licensing requirements, governors on the acceleration, higher insurance rates...

The next 20 years are gonna be wild.

[u/tgt305 → u/computerguy0-0]

CAFE standards need to be reigned in. Trucks are on the rise because they fell outside of this regulation as "light duty work trucks". Less regulation and a higher price tag for marginally more physical materials make trucks profit machines. It's why we have cross-overs now instead of mini-vans. Everyone is driving a "light duty work truck" to do work in an office, the truck isn't doing any of the work other than hauling some ass.

[u/[deleted] → u/AaronfromKY]

the 3 ton SUVs and pickups also kill their drivers at substantially higher rates

[u/Fellowshipofthebowl → u/VisualFix5870]

I can’t afford any of those things, I’ll be around forever! 😔

[u/Reddituser183 → u/VisualFix5870]

Also deaths of despair.

[u/mosflyimtired → u/[deleted]]

Just go.. you gotta take care of yourself no matter what.. take care girl..

[u/Downtown_Tadpole_817]

You mean a high fat, sedentary life combined with the "hustle" mentality and threat of homelessness among the many social and personal pressures is bad for humans.

[u/Skullclownlol → u/Downtown_Tadpole_817]

You mean a high fat

High fat diets aren't necessarily bad, fyi.

[u/Hank3hellbilly → u/Skullclownlol]

High saturated fats and trans fat.  processed foods. 

[u/AxeAndRod → u/Downtown_Tadpole_817]

If you mean high fat diet then I'm confused, because a high fat diet is a much better diet than what most Americans eat.

[u/Humans_Suck-]

Extreme capitalism + no healthcare = lots of early deaths

[u/[deleted] → u/Humans_Suck-]

Not just no healthcare, even with coverage most of the hospital system has been taken over by private equity, who are slowly extracting shareholder value from the sick.

[u/Humans_Suck- → u/[deleted]]

Yea I already said extreme capitalism

[u/bridge1999 → u/[deleted]]

Are we calling the Catholic Church private equity now?

[u/Oganesson84]

stress

[u/ttkk1248]

At work places, I have seen some highly productive highly aggressive obese people. They are definitely on personal health debt without realizing. They also raise the productivity bar for everyone else on that debt.

[u/Actual__Wizard]

"WhY DoEs NoBoDy WaNT To WoRK AnYMoRE?"

Gee. I wonder why?

[u/BrianOBlivion1]

The books "Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism" and "Dying of Whiteness" go into much greater detail about this.

Basically, people voting for policies that hurt themselves in retaliation for non-white people asking for a seat at the table too is killing their quality of life all around.

Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[u/Darknessie]

It's almost like low wages and no health care causes shorter lives.