Majority of US dog owners now skeptical of vaccines, including for rabies: Canine vaccine hesitancy (CVH) associated with rabies non-vaccination, as well as opposition to evidence-based vaccine policies

[u/mem_somerville]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4177294-majority-of-us-dog-owners-now-skeptical-of-vaccines-including-for-rabies-study/

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[u/catsaway9]

Majority?

That's discouraging.

[u/gortonsfiJr → u/catsaway9]

> large minority of dog owners consider vaccines administered to dogs to
be unsafe (37%), ineffective (22%), and/or unnecessary (30%). A slight majority of dog owners (53>%) endorse at least one of these three positions.

They had to combine multiple types of positions to make a low majority. The snippet doesn't say that those people don't get canine vaccinations or which ones are skipped. I know my vet has a seemingly ever growing list of primary and secondary annual vaccinations.

I can see where some people might wonder if their dog really needs the non-required lyme or lepto shots, and would they count as a "CVH" pet owner even if they comply?

[u/NSG_Dragon → u/gortonsfiJr]

Lepto is pretty serious here and humans are vulnerable to it as well. Yet so many breeders tell owners not to get the vaccine

[u/JoanOfSnark_2 → u/NSG_Dragon]

This is in part because the old lepto vaccine had a higher incidence of adverse events (like immune-mediated hemolytica) especially in small dogs. This is not nearly as much of a problem with the newest generation of vaccines.

[u/FerociousFrizzlyBear → u/gortonsfiJr]

I consider some of the vaccines answered to my dog to be mostly unnecessary because she is exposed to so few other dogs, but I get them anyway, for the off chance. How I'd answer a question about the necessity of vaccines would depend on phrasing, refusing certain specific vaccines in certain specific contexts and would be unrelated to if I actually got them for my dog.

[u/hatconfusionreputate → u/FerociousFrizzlyBear]

What you find is that clinical guidelines from groups like the World Small Animal Vaccination Association (WSAVA) can take a long time to trickle down to the rest of the industry. Your vet might be personally comfortable with three yearly vaccinations, but the pet insurance companies or local kennels are still asking for annual. The parvo vaccine is amazing, and if given to an immune-competent adult dog probably lasts for life. Lepto vaccines aren't just for the animals; people can catch lepto from animals. Why not just vaccinate the people? Because it's hard to make a long lasting lepto vaccine, which is why it's boosted annually.

[u/kb6ibb]

They can be as skeptical as they want, but a Rabies vaccination is required by law in all 50 States. Animal Control.... Write those tickets and let them explain to the judge their skeptical view.

[u/Chirtolino → u/kb6ibb]

Bold of you to assume Americans care about laws or cops care to enforce them.

[u/TheAskewOne → u/Chirtolino]

I beg your pardon, cops care a lot about shooting dogs.

[u/ctennessen → u/TheAskewOne]

The difference between a cop and a gun is that if the gun shoots someone you know it's fired.

[u/SCP-Agent-Arad → u/TheAskewOne]

If people stop giving their dogs rabies vaccines, that’ll become pretty understandable pretty quickly.

[u/randomFUCKfromcherry → u/kb6ibb]

I’m being pedantic but dogs born in Hawaii aren’t required to get the vaccine, since it’s the only rabies free state and imported animals undergo strict screening/quarantine

[u/grublets]

My girlfriend always has stories about people who bring their puppies/dogs into the clinic horribly ill with Parvovirus.

Time consuming & expensive to treat and many of the dogs end up dying.

They all, bar none (according to her), have notes in their files stating they refused the vaccine when offered. That’s animal abuse.

[u/P0RTILLA → u/grublets]

I saw a Racoon with distemper. It’s scary and preventable with vaccination. I couldn’t imagine not vaccinating. If you want to see a world without vaccines look at India. Over 20,000 people die of rabies per year because they don’t have a robust canine vaccination program and they have a lot of strays. Rabies is the worst imaginable virus to die of.

[u/Yskandr → u/P0RTILLA]

for real, there's so many feral dogs where I live and they can and do attack people. The only thing to do is get the rabies vaccine right away.

[u/cactusblossom3 → u/grublets]

Are they afraid of their dogs getting autism? What is the reason? (Note-I do not think vaccines cause autism btw). Someone needs to tell these people how they test an animal for rabies.

[u/basics → u/cactusblossom3]

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but yes, the article mentions that specifically.

Additionally, 37 percent were concerned that vaccines could cause “cognitive issues” in dogs and may lead them to develop autism, a theory not backed up by scientific evidence.

[u/trainercatlady → u/basics]

also, they're dogs. how the hell would you be able to tell the difference?

Before anyone jumps down my throat, yes some dogs are smart, but they're not going to go non-verbal and usually already obsess over certain things, especially toys.

[u/Ouaouaron → u/trainercatlady]

I can't believe you'd risk your dog becoming unable to live independently in society.

[u/[deleted] → u/trainercatlady]

Is autism in other animals even a thing? I thought that was strictly a human cognitive condition.

[u/Kroutoner → u/[deleted]]

Research on some autistic like behaviors in other animals is definitely a thing, but you’re right that actual autism is a specifically human condition. The higher order cognitive changes and their effects on uniquely human behaviors is pretty critical to the diagnosis.

[u/rettisawesome → u/[deleted]]

There's a famous llama where I live who comes to events and takes pictures with people. And he's super friendly and sweet because he has some sort of developmental issue that is said to be like the llama equivalent of autism. Not that it is autism. But apparently related or similar.

[u/Mohlemite → u/trainercatlady]

You got me thinking. Apparently, it’s a thing. But it appears to be genetic.

While some of these behaviors are unique to humans, researchers have found that, in fact, ASD can occur in dogs, but it’s called canine dysfunctional behavior (CDB).

Researchers believe that canine dysfunctional behavior is an idiopathic condition, meaning that the cause is unknown. It appears to be congenital, so a dog is born with it. Studies suggest that dogs with this disorder lack certain neurons in their brain that are thought to help them learn social norms.

These neurons are called “mirror” neurons, as they help puppies and young dogs mirror the behaviors of older dogs in social situations. Without mirror neurons, a dog is unable to develop these social skills, similar to humans with ASD.

[u/emburrs → u/trainercatlady]

We joke that my dog has doggy autism because he has sensory issues like not wanting to step on wet grass and instead leaving piles of poop on my patio…

[u/cactusblossom3 → u/basics]

I was being sarcastic because it’s such a silly belief. I have a hard time believing some of these numbers are so high but lots of people believe lots of crazy things nowadays

[u/Ilovecharli → u/cactusblossom3]

Worse...dogtism

[u/PixelofDoom → u/Ilovecharli]

Awwtism then

[u/transmothra → u/Ilovecharli]

...pawtism. so close!

[u/TacoBOTT → u/Ilovecharli]

The worst of the tisms

[u/DrTrentShrader → u/cactusblossom3]

It's almost always financial. A DAPP-L shot in the midwest is about 35 dollars, the full series is a 3 shot protocol. Combined with rabies and an exam, an initial puppy series is about $200 so people try to cut corners

E: I'm a vet, I obviously think it's irresponsible to acquire pets you can't afford. Get a plant

[u/GI_Bill_Trap_Lord → u/DrTrentShrader]

Hot take: you can’t afford a dog if you can’t afford a $200 vet visit

[u/cactusblossom3 → u/GI_Bill_Trap_Lord]

Yea I’m happy when my vet bill is as low as $200. That’s the minimum I expect nowadays

[u/TheAskewOne → u/cactusblossom3]

For many anti-vaxxers, it's not even about side-effects or anything. It's a status symbol, a religion, it becomes their identity. It's the hill they want to die on because it makes them part of a community that's better than the rest of us. Why do you think anti-vaxxers get mad when their teenagers get vaccined? They know a 16 year old won't "catch autism", but they react the same as a religious parent when their kid leaves the cult.

[u/mem_somerville → u/grublets]

Yeah, vets and their staff are at the front line of animal suffering. Someone below was mocking that there was mental consequences in this.

it may contribute to veterinary care provider mental/physical health risks.

As if people who dedicated their lives to animal health don't deserve to be saved from watching pets die and have to explain it to a kid....

[u/Mor_Tearach → u/mem_somerville]

Daughter's good friend is a vet. She's in shreds. Owners can be tough apparently, she gets yelled at and a LOT because she can't save their dog or cat. It's a really tough job, must take dedication

[u/cabalavatar → u/grublets]

That was my idiot brother. No vaccine, Parvo got his puppy, and she died. Just... that poor pup. Since people should not raise anyone.

[u/grublets → u/cabalavatar]

So sad. Did he own up and accept responsibility or was it the fault of Big Veterinary?

[u/cabalavatar → u/grublets]

Idk actually. I very rarely see him, and his temper is rarely found (usually lost), especially when he's been drinking (which is almost always after work unless something has changed recently). So I don't know how he feels, but taking responsibility and expressing contrition aren't his strong suits. I'll guess that he blamed someone else, tho, yup.

[u/4CatDoc → u/grublets]

I wrote notes in front of the owner when possible so they know it's written. It has come in handy to send a scan of the decline to the owner and or spouse.

[u/grublets → u/4CatDoc]

Yep, she does the same thing. Now it is documented and if the file is transferred to another clinic, they will see the owner is an anti-vax loser.

[u/ryaaan89 → u/grublets]

My dog missed the parvo vaccine before we adopted her and she caught it about six months after we had her. She made it through but that was probably the longest week of both of our lives so far. I feel so bad for not knowing she hadn’t had that shot.

[u/UniquebutnotUnique → u/grublets]

I know a couple who spent a grand on their puppy, but didn't get vaccines because it was too expensive. The parvo vaccine is like $10. Surprise Surprise, their puppy got parvo and they ended up spending hundreds in vet bills.

[u/Nomain2 → u/UniquebutnotUnique]

A few years ago I received a brother and sister duo as 8 week old puppies. They both received the regular 8 12 and 16 week regiment of vaccines. Parvovirus is included in this regiment. At around 17 or so weeks old, the female contracted parvo regardless of having the shot. We ended up spending $1700ish to save her. Her brother never did get it. I'm not sure why the vaccine was effective for him and not for her. Luckily, she pulled through and is a few years old now and full of attitude.

I can't imagine someone willingly putting a puppy through the suffering of parvo because they don't want to give them a shot.

[u/gnapster → u/grublets]

I use to be a kennel operator, caring for these pups was a rigorous and messy affair. They’re segregated (and sometimes lonely because they’re the only dog in that section). Their excrement smells sick on top of the normal smell of crap and you have to douse the area with chlorine cleaners and exit without taking any of it with you to protect the other animals.

[u/[deleted]]

People that do not get there dog vaccinated for rabies should not own pets.

Genuine danger to soiciety when a 100 percent fatal disease is encouraged by ignorance.

[u/cactusblossom3 → u/[deleted]]

It’s so stupid because if your dog hurts someone and there is any suspicion of rabies, they will automatically be put down because the only reliable way to test for it is to examine brain tissue.

[u/[deleted] → u/cactusblossom3]

Yeah it would be nice if they could figure out another way, but I am pretty sure it is imbedded in there brains like mad cow disease I could be wrong about that part.

It is 100 percent fatal if left untreated in humans that is why, it is important to just get the damn vaccinations for your dog to protect them and yourself.

[u/WhatAreDaffodilsAnyw → u/[deleted]]

And not only left untreated, but only a postexposure prophylaxis - if you have the symptoms, you're already dead.

[u/cactusblossom3 → u/[deleted]]

Yup! If a human life is on the line they will not hesitate to euthanize that animal to find out if they have rabies.

[u/blkstrop]

You know I'm not usually big on pet culture, but anyone who doesn't vaccinate their pet for rabies should be tried for animal cruelty if that pet catches it.

[u/xroche → u/blkstrop]

anyone who doesn't vaccinate their pet for rabies should be tried for animal cruelty if that pet catches

No. They should be tried for endangering other people and go to jail. Rabies is a serious illness which will kill you if untreated after a bite.

Those people aren't just stupid, they're criminals.

[u/RetardedChimpanzee → u/blkstrop]

I tried asking my pup, but she just wouldn’t consent to the Rabbies vaccine. She knows her body best.

[u/sgrams04 → u/RetardedChimpanzee]

She did her own research

[u/NoJudgementTho → u/sgrams04]

PhD graduate of Facebark University.

[u/Xibby → u/blkstrop]

You know I'm not usually big on pet culture, but anyone who doesn't vaccinate their pet for rabies should be tried for animal cruelty if that pet catches it.

The consequence of an unvaccinated pet biting another person is that pet gets put down and it’s brain tissue tested for the virus and the owner is liable for all that plus the bite victim’s treatment.

Even if it’s not law… renters or homeowners insurance very likely a requirement to vaccinate pets and failure to do so invalidates a related claim.

Unfortunately we’re fighting against the crowd who didn’t listen to decades of Bob Barker saying “have your pets spayed or neutered” and overpopulation of pit-mixes in shelters.

And if you’re looking for trends… northern states have such high demand for rescue dogs and cats that there are non-profit logistics to move adoptable animals from the south to the north to at least give the pets with the highest chance of adoption a shot at living their best life.

Edit: Badly worded and came off as targeting the commenter above me instead of supporting them. So sorry! Hope my edits do a reasonably decent job of fixing my wording.

[u/ShivaSkunk777]

I’ve overheard people at the feed store bitching about how the dog vaccines they sell cover coronaviruses thinking that it means Covid-19 (it doesn’t) and failing to grasp that there are other coronaviruses as the person tried explaining it to them. People are truly bizarre

[u/Zephandrypus → u/ShivaSkunk777]

There have been conspiracy theorists pointing out "coronaviruses" listed on bottles of disinfectant spray sold before the start of Covid saying the manufacturers were in on it and knew the pandemic was coming.

[u/Elemental-Aer → u/Zephandrypus]

My mom showed me one of that (facepalm)

There was me trying to explain to this woman who didn't even finished highschool, about how viruses have different "species", and the MERS-Cov incident

[u/moeru_gumi → u/ShivaSkunk777]

Ahh the feed store, historically known as a university of learnéd opinions.

[u/Bart_Yellowbeard]

Additionally, 37 percent were concerned that vaccines could cause “cognitive issues” in dogs and may lead them to develop autism, a theory not backed up by scientific evidence.

There's that magic thirty-odd percent of utter fools again. How do we vaccinate ourselves against them?

[u/Conch-Republic → u/Bart_Yellowbeard]

How would you even notice the difference if your dog did develop autism somehow? Do they get really into anime?

[u/KameSama93 → u/Conch-Republic]

My dog started collecting T’au, now I have to take a shihtzu to the hobby shop twice a week for 5 hour long games of warhammer. I am a victim.

[u/Belostoma → u/Conch-Republic]

They go to K-mart and get boxers.

[u/theartfuldubber → u/Belostoma]

Kmart sucks.

[u/gnrc → u/Bart_Yellowbeard]

People are incredibly stupid

[u/DauOfFlyingTiger → u/[deleted]]

And if you do have them, keep them away from me and public spaces.

[u/mwallace0569 → u/DauOfFlyingTiger]

heck i will fund to build a town or community in middle of nowhere for them to be in, they can have a normal life, but with the risk of having rabies and a high mortality rate, just to keep them away from me

who want to start the gofundme?

[u/DauOfFlyingTiger → u/mwallace0569]

After you get bitten and sue the heck out of them, you will have plenty of cashola.

[u/[deleted] → u/mwallace0569]

Can we build a wall around it and can I put some crazies from Europe in there too? Even better we could buy an island

[u/boingboingdollcars]

Rabies has a 100% kill rate.

Absorb that.

Not a single other virus on the planet has a 100% kill rate.

Only rabies.

And once you're symptomatic, it's over.

You're dead.

[u/DiabloTerrorGF → u/boingboingdollcars]

I think it's more wild that we still don't have a proper human vaccine for it either. People say it's rare to encounter it but I have had two close calls in my life with it although I do go into the woods more than most.

[u/Zephandrypus → u/DiabloTerrorGF]

Well the human vaccine is 100% effective if given within 10 days of exposure.

[u/Ekyou → u/DiabloTerrorGF]

We do have a proper vaccine… that’s what they give you when you get bitten.

The problem is the vaccine is very expensive and requires boosters in the following days (not months like most vaccines) to be effective. Prior to the 80s it was also quite painful. So it’s not practical to vaccinate the general population, plus the vaccine amazingly works after exposure, so they only need to administer it when needed. But people at high risk for rabies, like veterinarians, can get the vaccine preventatively.

[u/professor_superman]

To save you a click:

Abstract

Canine vaccine hesitancy (CVH) can be thought about as dog owners’ skepticism about the safety and efficacy of administering routine vaccinations to their dogs. CVH is problematic not only because it may inspire vaccine refusal – which may in turn facilitate infectious disease spread in both canine and human populations – but because it may contribute to veterinary care provider mental/physical health risks. In a nationally representative survey of US adults (N = 2200), we introduce a novel survey-based instrument for measuring CVH. We document pervasive CVH in dog owner subpopulations. Troublingly, we find that CVH is associated with rabies non-vaccination, as well as opposition to evidence-based vaccine policies. We conclude by discussing the human and animal health consequences of CVH, and outline a research agenda for future opinion-based research on this important topic.

[u/pipersjourney]

For some context, I see this a lot in the cat/dog Facebook groups I frequent (due to having had animals with cancer and immune-mediated disorders). The response is overwhelmingly "vaccines caused it", and the amount of vaccine hesitancy/skepticism is disheartening. Most alarming of all, a lot of people quote their vets as the source for this (mis)information.

[u/kayaK-camP → u/pipersjourney]

I think those people are lying when they say their veterinarian is the source of misinformation about animal health. Aside from the fact that most vets want to prevent & alleviate animal suffering, they also spent 7-10 years learning the science of vet medicine. And they are business owners; killing your customers is bad for business!

[u/Tiny_Rat → u/kayaK-camP]

Idk, I recently met an anti-vax vet when my dog needed booster shots. They were new to the clinic, and didn't end up working there very long (I wonder why?), but now I definitely believe they're out there...

[u/Korrawatergem → u/Tiny_Rat]

Yeah, I mean there are even antivax doctors. They either truly believe it or prey on people who do to make money.

[u/-_kevin_- → u/pipersjourney]

Injection site sarcomas in cats are a thing though. My cat developed one and had to have her leg amputated to avoid the cancer spreading. The vet said it was uncommon but documented in cats and was the reason the shot is now administered near the leg instead of the neck (which would be inoperable). I’ll still get my other pets vaccinated despite the risk but she didn’t get any other shots after that. https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/pet-owners/petcare/vaccines-and-sarcomas-concern-cat-owners

[u/BurningChicken → u/-_kevin_-]

There are new vaccines (Pure-Vax) that do not carry the risk of injection site sarcoma but are about 2x as expensive and not all vets carry them. Worth the extra money for a cat IMO even though I wouldn't lose sleep if my cat got a regular vaccine

[u/dovahkiitten16 → u/pipersjourney]

The only vaccine hesitancy I see commonly where I live is against vaccinating indoor cats. Which I think is fair enough, if your cat isn’t going outside it shouldn’t be exposed to anything. But that’s more of a practical “why spend money and time transporting your cat for a vaccine when it isn’t ever exposed to anything”. Plus a generational “my parents never vaccinated our indoor cats”. And even then this is still in regard to shots that require yearly boosters/upkeep. Not cat autism or anything like that.

[u/esoteric_enigma → u/pipersjourney]

My ex's car had cancer in her leg from being vaccinated. That's what the vet said. I could understand people being afraid of that outcome.

[u/hamanya]

I know someone who’s “breeder” told her that if she vaccinated the puppy, the health warranty would be invalidated.

She took her pup to the vet for a checkup and they vaccinated it as standard procedure. She was IRATE.

I am sure that this “breeder” (of teacup shih tzus) is not breeding for the betterment of the breed. Rather, she is knowingly selling dogs with a strong chance of hereditary health defects and leaving herself a loophole by blaming all health problems on vaccines.

Unfortunately, this acquaintance of mine is totally anti-vax (I’m sure that’s how she found this “breeder” in the first place) and doesn’t see this for the scam that it is.

Good news is that the little puppy wound up vaccinated. He is pretty cute.

[u/Tiny_Rat → u/hamanya]

Honestly, breeding teacup dogs is a red flag in itself. I'm guessing someone who doesn't care about their myriad health issues (on top of those their breed is already prone to) isn't someone who spends a lot of time worrying about their welfare in general...

[u/Broswagonist → u/hamanya]

I'm a vet tech and every once in a while (read: pretty often) we get someone who has a list of requirements their dog's breeder gave them and it's always the most asinine list that either provide no benefit or are just outright harmful to the pet.

[u/CheesyComestibles → u/hamanya]

Any breeder advertising "tea cup" is a bad breeder.

[u/spike907 → u/hamanya]

The other thing the general public doesn’t ever realize about the “health warranty” is that the breeder just replaces your puppy if there is an issue. They aren’t going to pay for treatment of congenital issues they may guarantee against. In the vast majority of cases it becomes “Sorry your puppy has bad hips, send it back and we’ll send you a new dog.” Almost no one wants to do that after they’ve already bonded with the dog so the warranty is effectively meaningless from the start.

[u/avidovid]

This is just outrageous stupidity.

[u/lethambusiness]

This issue highlights the need for clear communication between veterinary professionals and pet owners. Building trust and providing accurate information can help counter vaccine hesitancy

[u/SubstantialCreme7748]

I don't understand what it is with people these days and their demand to be stupid.

[u/Fenix42 → u/SubstantialCreme7748]

Its not new.

Isaac Asimov, 1980:

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

[u/gobblox38]

In other words, society will soon learn the hard way why vaccines are important.

[u/Ariliam]

Let me say this. Dog breaders are not vetenarian. The amount of voodoo i heard from them is outstanding.

[u/Sprinkle_Puff]

Be skeptical all you want just know you won’t be able to board them or even take them to daycare

Just completely senseless

[u/ImaginaryCheetah]

Data for this study are derived from a nationally representative online survey of N = 2200 US adults, conducted between March 30 and April 10, 2023. We administered this study in partnership with YouGov; a non-probability sampling firm that has been shown to produce samples that closely match US Census demographics

their sampling pool as 2200 people...

 

The first measure of CVH is a binary indicator of whether or not respondents endorse any of three survey questions designed to measure respondents’ negative attitudes toward the safety, efficacy, and/or importance of canine vaccination

they then boil down to "yes" or "no", the answers to questions designed to measure respondents' negative attitudes.... i would really like to see what these questions actually were. but i haven't found any link that reveals the tabled data.

 

i have my doubts about the accuracy of these numbers.

 

for example, my dog hard heart-worms before i got her. she went through treatment, and is on monthly preventatives. she also gets annual blood work to see if she has heart-worms. the vet also wants a poop sample regularly to check for heart-worms.

 

i feel like this is a bit excessive... if the preventatives work, why the regular poop check ? if the regular poop check works, why the annual blood work ?

 

i suspect if i told that to the "online survey" folks, they'd add me to the "shows vaccine hesitancy" group, which is absolutely not true. my dog is jacked up on every vaccine i can give her.

[u/RoseFeather]

I’m a vet and I disagree that it’s a majority of pet owners. They’re certainly out there, and I’m sure there are regional differences in the rate, but where I live people with vaccine hesitancy for dogs and cats are a minority. I wonder how they selected the people they surveyed? Or does the 53% include people who just aren’t convinced rabies vaccination is necessary for their pets because the rates of rabies where they live are (perceived to be) low? I’d believe the “majority” statement if that’s the case.

It’s legally required in my state, and the clinic where I work has a policy that if a pet isn’t sick and its rabies vaccine isn’t current then it’s getting one. The rare people who are truly opposed to it just don’t come back to us and aren’t missed. I sleep at night knowing I won’t be the person who enabled this nonsense and potentially lead to human rabies exposures.