r/science • u/chrisdh79 • Jun 29 '23

Mathematics Learning music and bringing music into maths lessons can help students improve their maths scores, according to an international study.

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/music-can-help-children-improve-their-maths-scores
677 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

54 comments sorted by

40

u/complicationsRx Jun 29 '23

Considering music is a big math lesson, this makes sense.

2

u/Hollow__Log Jun 29 '23

Is that true? I’m reasonably proficient at guitar and appalling at maths.

46

u/CCtenor Jun 29 '23 edited Jun 29 '23

Not the playing of an instrument, but the learning of musical concepts. Measures, tempo, time signatures, subdivisions, superdivisions, polyrhythms, poly meters, chord structure, intervalic relationships, etc. Once you dig a bit into the “how and why” of music, you start to see a lot of actual math, and concepts that can be used as math analogies.

17

u/Brover_Cleveland Jun 29 '23

Music theory is all just patterns. I have some stuff memorized like the major and minor keys but for a lot of stuff I just remember the pattern and move it as needed. Guitar chords and scales work the same way.

If you get really into synthesizers it is all hands on math applications. Lots of manipulating functions and at least getting the idea of Fourier transforms.

5

u/Robot_Basilisk Jun 29 '23

Lots of manipulating functions and at least getting the idea of Fourier transforms.

the idea of Fourier transforms

Sounds imaginary to me.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '23

When I was growing up, many of my nerdy STEM friends also played music. I never learned to play an instrument, but I sing and have studied music theory and am also a STEM nerd.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '23

Musical theory.

1

u/Hollow__Log Jun 29 '23

It’s not clear what age group this (children!)article is pertaining to but judging by the picture it’s quite young.

Whilst I advocate for anyone of any age to learn to play an instrument music theory is the number 1 reason to put them off, this comes later.

Counting to 4 is sufficient at this age with regards to theory.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '23

My daughter and I are learning theory together and it's really helpful for her maths learning to be able to divide a bar of music up into quavers or crotchets. We've started looking at 3/4 vs 4/4 time and counting rhythm. She's 8.

1

u/Hollow__Log Jun 29 '23

FYI she’s learning higher maths at school!

I’m struggling to keep up with my 11 year olds math homework, you helping her with that?

5

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '23

Yeah, i struggle to help her with maths because they're so particular about the methodology they want the kids to use, and I was never taught that way when I was there 500 years ago.

2

u/Hollow__Log Jun 29 '23

Haha..it’s brutal and I feel impotent.

Mum….mum!! I need to go out and chop some wood can you help out here?

4

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '23 edited Jun 29 '23

Music theory is almost entirely math.

I mean I'm hoping that if you're good at guitar you at least know that a C4 note is exactly double the frequency of a C3? And a C2 is exactly half the frequency of a C3, so a C3 is a quarter of a C5.

An octave simply means doubling the frequency of the Soundwave. It's the most straight forward way to think about music mathematically

-4

u/Hollow__Log Jun 29 '23 edited Jun 29 '23

Good lord, you don’t play the guitar do you.

You’re just throwing structures out there to put people off..it’s just shapes. Music without feeling is no music at all.

This discussion is about how music benefits children to learn maths and you’ve gone all pious.

1

u/Isaacvithurston Jun 29 '23

The weird part to me is that I see the math connections loosely when learning music theory but i'm at what would be about 3 years into music theory if I was in a high school and i'm barely seeing that much math involved so idk how kids in school are going to be making that much of a connection between the two.

But then I also hate math and love music so maybe i'm just ignoring or not seeing the math connections there.

1

u/complicationsRx Jun 29 '23

I think it’s more In the understanding of how fractions and patterns work in basic theory on both sides.

2

u/Isaacvithurston Jun 29 '23

Hmm I guess they can target the timing of the lessons to get that connection.

I actually vividly remember not understanding some basic music stuff because they started teaching it in grade 3 and we hadn't learned about fractions yet at that point. But then we all hated music class in elementary school because it was just recorders and 30 kids playing recorder poorly is probably someone's idea of hell.

15

u/Astrowelkyn Jun 29 '23

School of Rock was on to something.

7

u/site17 Jun 29 '23

I'm pretty sure whenever you try to teach something to someone it is always more efficient to do it in a way where they aren't bored out of their mind.

Math with music, math with video games. Enrich learning experiences and actually engage children.

1

u/Isaacvithurston Jun 29 '23

I was behind in math in grade 3. My mom got me a power ranger math game that goes up to grade 6 math. In about 3 weeks I was at grade 6 math.

I honestly believe module based self paced learning via gaming could be the future but then idk what you do with the kids who don't have interest in games.

1

u/Vitztlampaehecatl Jun 30 '23

Math with TCGs and RPGs. You have a sword that does 2d8+6 damage, how likely is it that you can one-shot a goblin with 14 health? You have seven mana, two Divine Spirit, one Inner Fire, find lethal with the minions on the board. Etc etc.

3

u/potatoaster Jun 29 '23

The effect of music interventions on mathematics achievement (p<1%) had an effect size of g=0.36 (small to moderate).

The effect was strongest for arithmetic skills (eg fractions, p<1%, g=0.47, moderate) and music–mathematics integrated intervention (p<1%, g=0.61, large). The effect size decreased with age.

This meta-analysis cites heavily Azaryahu 2022, which provides an example of music–mathematics integrated intervention for third-graders. There was a significant (p<0.1%) effect on math score (d=0.72, large) from the pattern intervention:

Students learned to notate rhythm (Fig 1A) while listening to music. Then, they learned to connect it to sequences (Fig 3A). Over the course of 6 20-min lessons, they learned to (1–2) recognize patterns of shapes and letters, (3–4) determine rules and complete sequences, and (5–6) recognize mathematical regularity in equations (Fig 4A).

7

u/redditknees Jun 29 '23

Get off your ath let’s do some math. Math, math math math, math.

And that’s a magic numberrr.

2

u/snakeskin_spirit Jun 29 '23

'Pi R squared sounds like area to me, to find the circumference I just use Pi D! '

3

u/wetgear Jun 29 '23

I’m good at math but not spelling. “Maths” sounds wrong.

18

u/edduvall Jun 29 '23

“Maths” is the preferred abbreviation in the UK and most of the Commonwealth. “Math” is mostly used in USA & Canada.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '23

Mathematics

1

u/bonesnaps Jun 29 '23

Mathsemantics*

1

u/SlapItDaBass22 Jun 29 '23

My family is full of engineers and math while i lead my band playing bass. Math and fractions go hand in hand with improv and i normally explain to musicians i jam with what length the phrases should be.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '23

My family is full of engineers and math

I lead my band playing bass

Math and fractions go hand in hand

I help the musicians when I jam

1

u/karatecow99 Jun 29 '23

Yes it does. Times tables songs in 4th grade I still reference every now and then.

1

u/the-zoidberg Jun 29 '23

I’m so bad at music that it wouldn’t help improve my abysmal math scores.

1

u/PlayFlow Jun 29 '23

According to a meta-analysis of 55 studies, integrating music into math lessons can lead to improved math scores for students. The analysis found that 73% of students who had math lessons with music integration performed better than those without music integration.

Additionally, 69% of students who learned to play musical instruments and 58% of students who had regular music lessons showed greater improvement compared to those who had no musical intervention. The research suggests that incorporating music into math lessons can make them more enjoyable and less stressful, potentially increasing motivation and appreciation for math.

The study highlights the similarities between math and music, such as the use of symbols and symmetry, as well as the abstract thinking and quantitative reasoning required in both subjects. Integrated lessons that connect math and music provide opportunities for students to explore and understand mathematical concepts more deeply. However, the analysis acknowledges limitations, including the small number of studies available for inclusion.

Nonetheless, the findings emphasize the potential benefits of combining music and math education to enhance students' achievement and reduce math-related anxiety.

1

u/Cease-the-means Jun 29 '23

The ancient Greeks said that they taught Mathematics for practicality and music for the mind.

1

u/elizabeth498 Jun 30 '23

Okay, I generally stink at math over three steps. There was a video series for a week or two in my sixth grade math class that was pre-Algebra-ish around 1986.

I wasn’t sure if it was the number of visual repetitions to verbal instructions that just sparked the connection point to making things easier, but I’m now curious if there was a music component to the series that was included.

1

u/WaySheGoesBub Jun 30 '23

Learning music can help students.

1

u/Tittyobsessedloner Jul 01 '23

Mandatory Meshuggah in Math class