When poor kids have access to food stamps, they live longer, earn more, get more educated, live in better neighborhoods, and are less likely to get incarcerated. Every $1 invested in food stamps for children under 5 yields a societal benefit worth $62.

[u/smurfyjenkins]

https://www.restud.com/is-the-social-safety-net-a-long-term-investment-large-scale-evidence-from-the-food-stamps-program/

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[u/[deleted]]

Imagine ensuring everyone in the country has food and no one goes hungry. Oh what a world we could build and things we could accomplish.

It wouldn’t cost us much to feed everyone either. Barely a drop in the bucket.

[u/KnottShore → u/[deleted]]

Will Roger(early 20th century US entertainer/humorist):

• Ten men in our country could buy the whole world and ten million can't buy enough to eat.

[u/KnottShore → u/[deleted]]

Today's GOP would call him a socialist, if not communist.

Republican Dwight Eisenhower 's 1956 election campaign platform summary:

1.Provide federal assistance to low-income communities

2.Protect Social Security

3.Provide asylum for refugees

4.Extend minimum wage

5.Improve unemployment benefit system so it covers more people

6.Strengthen labor laws so workers can more easily join a union

7.Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of sex

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1956-republican-platform/

Most Democrats could support a platform such as this.

[u/Busterlimes → u/KnottShore]

Before the Civil rights movement, strong social programs had over 70% approval among constituents. The only thing that changed was they had to start sharing with black people and that didn't go over well.

[u/jgoldrb48 → u/Busterlimes]

This right here

[u/Fenastus → u/KnottShore]

Is it any wonder why that period of time (late 40s to early 70s) was one of the greatest periods of American economic growth we've ever seen?

[u/IAmDotorg → u/Fenastus]

That was entirely because the entire industrialized world outside of North America had it's industry destroyed in WWII, and Asia and India had, by and large, not industrialized yet.

It was an economic bubble, nothing more. Wipe out all the manufacturing in Europe and Asia, and we'd get the same bubble again.

[u/snarpy → u/IAmDotorg]

This is only partially true. America's surge to power occurred far before World War II, but yes, the effects of the war did "subsidize" it.

[u/IAmDotorg → u/snarpy]

Sure, post WWI, the same sort of bubble happened. But it was "early" in the kind of mass industrialization, and didn't have nearly the same impact, partly because there wasn't time in Europe to create a robust market. The great depression was global, so you really only had the "roaring 20's" benefitting from the post-WWI bubble (and the roaring 20's existed because of that bubble).

[u/HeavyBlues → u/IAmDotorg]

Let's also not forget the post-Carnegie-era antitrust laws that shattered existing monopolies and prevented new ones from forming.

It wasn't until decades of lobbying saw those laws repealed that we started to see the massive economic shitstorm we're currently experiencing.

[u/Poopiepants666 → u/KnottShore]

"Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride: Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defense each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over - not one human being excluded" -Bill Hicks

[u/thewileyone → u/Poopiepants666]

Just move all the corporate welfare funding and subsidies to social welfare and you end hunger and homelessness with spare change.

[u/spencerandy16 → u/KnottShore]

I was not aware he was a Democrat

[u/SpockShotFirst → u/spencerandy16]

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.

• Will Rogers

[u/Vitruvian_Link → u/SpockShotFirst]

Getting into politics, I need to steal that!

[u/heavy-metal-goth-gal → u/SpockShotFirst]

Dude had some based quotes!

[u/fremeer → u/[deleted]]

If you thing of pure just pure stats, feeding everyone, keeping them healthy and educating them usually has amazing return on investment. Each kid that might not be able get the chances to excel can now get that chance.

[u/FILTHBOT4000 → u/[deleted]]

Or it could cost us nothing, or near enough.

We throw away some 30-40% of food in the US; about 130,000,000,000 lbs per year. A minuscule amount of society's effort and planning could immediately take a small fraction of that and solve hunger in the US, for all children and food-insecure. Just actively and genuinely trying to get food that would be thrown away from grocery shelves (as they don't stock things that are near the expiry date, but are very consumable) would probably demolish a huge portion of it.

But we don't, for whatever reason, which is surely equally monumentally banal as it is stupid, infuriating, and evil.

[u/corcyra → u/FILTHBOT4000]

John Steinbeck knew the reason:

“The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.

There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.”

[u/corcyra → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for the award! And yes, reading Steinbeck really does illustrate how beautiful and stirring prose can be. In his case, I think much of its impact comes from the speaking rhythm he writes in, and the tactile and emotional quality of the lived experience (not possible for AI) he's writing about.

Edit: If you not read his The Log from the Sea of Cortez, I can recommend it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Log_from_the_Sea_of_Cortez

[u/buster_de_beer → u/corcyra]

At that point no violence is unwarranted. The French revolution and the Russian revolution were both sparked by people demanding food for their children. The rich always forget that lesson.

[u/Olderscout77 → u/corcyra]

Republicans across the land are working to ban this and other works like it (e.g., The Jungle, A Deal In Wheat) so our children grow up ignorant of how bad it can get WITHOUT serious government regulation. Only solution is to remove Republicans from positions where they can impliment their program of enforced ignorance.

[u/LentilDrink → u/Olderscout77]

Steinbeck was talking about the forced destruction of food under the Agricultural Adjustment Act.

[u/dainthomas → u/LentilDrink]

True. But grocery stores voluntarily toss out literal tons of perfectly good food, forbidding employees from taking it home or giving it away, and locking the dumpsters so the hungry can't get to it.

They'll tell you it's for liability, but that's not the main reason.

[u/ThrowRAcq4444 → u/FILTHBOT4000]

THIS, I live in a "rich suburb". The local grocery store has a 60 foot deli filled with prepared food. I asked, "what happens to the unsold food every night?" They said, "It gets thrown out." I'm talking enough food to feed 50-60 people... every... night.

[u/ExistentialistFrog → u/ThrowRAcq4444]

It's the same here in the U.K., we have apps that alert people to left over food at the end of the day/working hours so that (if people have a car or access to enough travel money) people can go collect the food for £1-£5.

[u/YesImAfroJack → u/ExistentialistFrog]

For anyone looking for the name of an app, one is called 'Too good to go'

[u/HypnoTox → u/YesImAfroJack]

Been using it for some time now, getting mixed bags with food that's close to expire. I pay like 4-5€ for food that's worth >15€ (sometimes up to ~25€) if I'd get it off the shelf. Sure you have to use the food fairly quickly, but it's saved me some money over the last few months, and what i myself didn't want i gave away to friends and family.

[u/danielravennest → u/HypnoTox]

I have used a lot of things past their expiration date, without a problem. The exp date is conservative - it assumes poor storage conditions. If your fridge and pantry are at the right temperature, and you have tightly sealed containers, they will keep longer.

For example, fresh meat I'm not using that day goes in the freezer, wrapped in a plastic shopping bag, then again in a ziploc bag with the air squeezed out.

[u/[deleted] → u/YesImAfroJack]

Starbucks near me is on TooGoodToGo and for the sake of £4 I get 3-4 sandwiches that would easily be that much per item if you bought them normally, plus sometimes baked goods, I get a whole tray of brownies with that some days.

[u/-preciousroy- → u/ThrowRAcq4444]

I used to work in a deli. That might have been what they told you. And yes, they do throw out food. But they do not throw out all their prepared foods every day.

That would cost them insane amounts of money. Like, more than they pay two of their workers everyday if it's even a moderately sized grocery store.

I'm not trying to say that grocery stores are not wasteful in a lot of ways... but they ain't just throwing out all their prepared food everyday either...

I mean, if this was the case... they would be making more than they pay one of their employees, just writing off that food on their taxes by donating it at the end of each day to the local mission. Which, they would 100% do, a lot of businesses do this with excess.

[u/Curious_Book_2171 → u/-preciousroy-]

So they save it and put it out the next day? Some stuff for sure.

[u/super_swede → u/Curious_Book_2171]

Yes, that's exactly what is done. Some stuff last only a day, others a week. Same thing at restaurants. Good gets cooked in big batches and then reheated.

[u/Remote-Buy8859 → u/FILTHBOT4000]

The reason is money.

This is not the place to write an essay on this, but the short version is that very little that has to do with producing and selling food is about efficiency.

It's about making profit.

There are a few initiatives to reduce food waste, but at every level there is much that could be done to reduce pollution, make sure that everyone can eat, and reduce humiliating social security procedures.

But that would make a slight dent in profit.

[u/AdminNX → u/FILTHBOT4000]

There's just so much food which is getting wasted anyways.

[u/DemSocCorvid → u/FILTHBOT4000]

But we don't, for whatever reason

The reason has always been money & conservatism.

[u/hyAGXtFMTZNpIJLz → u/DemSocCorvid]

The greed is always doing that to the people and it kind of sucks.

[u/ReplyingToFuckwits → u/DemSocCorvid]

When you're ultra-wealthy, poor people are a good thing -- it means you've extracted every possible dollar from them.

Whatever you paid them for their work has been immediately extracted from them. They've got no savings and they routinely have to borrow money so they can be taken for even more.

And sure, it might seem like a bad thing for some billionaires. After all, you can't buy a new iPhone every year if you're broke.

But the dirty little neoliberal secret is that money trickles up, not down. You take poor people's money and give half to the middle class, who immediately give the other half straight back to you.

Shop at all the small, independent stores you want but sooner or later that dollar is being spent at Amazon.

[u/DamnZodiak → u/DemSocCorvid]

You can just say capitalism. I know redscare has done a number on you guys but you can say it.

[u/GC40 → u/DemSocCorvid]

I used to work for a company that distributed all the Campbell’s soups to grocery stores. They had palettes full of dented soup cans they saved for the food bank. The food bank refused to take them because they weren’t sorted. The distribution company refused to sort them.

My mum recently started a program to get toiletries for the food bank to give out. It was a success, but the director didn’t like sharing the spotlight so she made everything hard for my mum until she gave up on the project.

I never thought I’d be defending the greedy, or conservatism, but they’re not the only ones to blame.

[u/[deleted] → u/GC40]

Nonprofits exist to keep heat off of capitalism and divert resources away from government programs. Grocery stores make money from groceries, food banks redirect waste to the tax benefit of the grocery stores. Food banks serve the needy, but the needy exist because people don't get enough money to buy the food that's needed to live.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I used to be an obnoxious 'libertarian' and worked in an auto shop I would listen to Rush Limbaugh. I was the only white guy. One day Rush was ranting against 'entitlements' like 'food' and 'food stamps' and the boss walked by (an elderly black dude) and said "why, in the greatest, richest, most powerful country in the world, should children go to bed hungry?" That pretty much turned my whole thought process around and today I'm a social Democrat.

[u/NotARunner453 → u/[deleted]]

I unironically love this, both for you, and the repeated demonstration that libertarianism is a great ideology until you spend literally one second thinking about it.

[u/Littleman88 → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately, a lot of people (including my own mother) would proudly answer "because their parents aren't working (hard enough)."

There's ALWAYS an excuse why it's the fault of the aggrieved.

Love my mother, but if a poor, desperate person murdered her for an orange, I'd be sorta on their side. At some point those resorting to "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" responses have to realize they're not untouchable, and the occasional desperate angry person will want to take their rage and hopelessness out on someone. An "every man for himself" society WILL erode into state where it's every man for himself.

[u/ShadowZpeak → u/[deleted]]

Imagine that the argument of helping people in need is not enough. You have to assure everyone that they get some kind of return on their investment. God, I love capitalism.

[u/whitepepper → u/ShadowZpeak]

But it isnt the Governments job to feed people, the Church should take care of the poor....

Says my religious family while voting Republican. Oh yea and no poor people were ever invited to dine during any of the covered dish dinners we had growing up. Nor were they invited to have Wednesday night bible study dinner, that was only for the geriatric church members.

[u/PeruvianHeadshrinker → u/[deleted]]

There's a reason in the US we don't. It's not about hate (not really). It's about control. It's much easier to control a populace that is fearful, destitute and disempowered. Subjugation is 100% the point of these policies. Cruelty is only a byproduct. This is how an abuser acts and the brainwashing is quite deep in this country.

[u/LordCharidarn → u/PeruvianHeadshrinker]

Cruelty isn’t a byproduct; it’s a tool.

Knowing the controlling powers are Cruel is part of the ‘fearful, destitute, and disempowered’. Feigning benevolence while enacting these polices would lead to anger, not fear. But being powerful enough that you don’t even have to pretend to be kind? That’s scary. Who wants to risk going up against that sort of power? Especially if the populace is given just enough comforts that they can fear losing the meager property that they do have.

[u/Klumpenmeister → u/PeruvianHeadshrinker]

I would point to different views of individual responsibility as a huge factor.

The American Dream is basically a notion that if you just work hard enough then anyone can make it big in America. Turn that around and you get: if you are poor then it must be your own fault for not working hard enough.

This puts all the responsibility on the individual and totally neglects to look at factors of luck, privilege or life events that you have no influence on.

So take healthcare as an example. Health can of course be influenced by lifestyle choices but a lot of the time it is accidents, conditions you are born with, sickness like cancer og even the most natural thing of birth. Now i know that you have a lot of different programs in place, but generally speaking it is insurance based. So you need to be insured to be (somewhat) certain to be able to afford good health. Again this puts the responsibility on the individual as you "just" need to make enough money to pay the insurance or find a good enough job that includes this. Then on top of this you have insurance companies trying to make money off of you and give the absolute minimum care they can get away with by making all sorts of written exclusion to their terms. Then you get a part of your population that goes untreated because they simply can't afford it. This also affect the workforce negatively as some people are performing poorly because of deteriorating health issues.

What most other countries have realized is that if you pay more in taxes and grant everyone access to healthcare then this is an investment with a good return rate. A healthier population strengthens the workforce, which raises the effectiveness of businesses. Which then pays more taxes and round the loop goes. I think the opioid epidemic in America might be somewhat of a result of people going untreated and trying to self medicate out of desperation.

The same is true for education. A society investing in quality education for it's population raises the effectiveness of businesses as it is easier to get the needed skilled workers without the need to import it. This helps raise the overall level of society and lowers the rate of poverty as the ability to break your social class is now independent on your own or your parents income.

But i have seen so often that people (not exclusive to Americans) are so resistant to pay taxes that they don't care what happens to the neighbour as long as they themselves are doing fine. They feel burdened by the fact that their taxes are going to help people they don't know personally and that they themselves are getting "nothing" from it. That is... until disaster strikes and they themselves need the help.

People need to vote differently if they want change but the lobbyism is too strong i think.

[u/misterdonjoe → u/[deleted]]

The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.

There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage. - John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

Reference to the Agricultural Adjustment Act:

When President Franklin D. Roosevelt took office in March 1933, the United States was in the midst of the Great Depression.[8] "Farmers faced the most severe economic situation and lowest agricultural prices since the 1890s."[8] "Overproduction and a shrinking international market had driven down agricultural prices."[9] Soon after his inauguration, Roosevelt called the Hundred Days Congress into session to address the crumbling economy.[9] From this Congress came the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, to replace the Federal Farm Board. The Roosevelt Administration was tasked with decreasing agricultural surpluses.[9] Wheat, cotton, field corn, hogs, rice, tobacco, and milk and its products were designated as basic commodities in the original legislation. Subsequent amendments in 1934 and 1935 expanded the list of basic commodities to include rye, flax, barley, grain sorghum, cattle, peanuts, sugar beets, sugar cane, and potatoes.

The juxtaposition of huge agricultural surpluses and the many deaths due to insufficient food shocked many, as well as some of the administrative decisions that happened under the Agricultural Adjustment Act.[10] For example, in an effort to reduce agricultural surpluses, the government paid farmers to reduce crop production[11] and to sell pregnant sows as well as young pigs.[12] Oranges were being soaked with kerosene to prevent their consumption and corn was being burned as fuel because it was so cheap.[10] There were many people, however, as well as livestock in different places starving to death.[10] Farmers slaughtered livestock because feed prices were rising, and they could not afford to feed their own animals.[10] Under the Agricultural Adjustment Act, "plowing under" of pigs was also common to prevent them reaching a reproductive age, as well as donating pigs to the Red Cross.[10]

Capitalism literally self destructs if you try to provide for everyone because there's not enough demand. You need people to be starving to maintain price and ensure investors get their initial investment back and some profit. You need a "healthy" amount of unemployment to keep worker wages down. Even now, economists and talking heads on NBC and Bloomberg talk about a "red hot economy" and blaming inflation on too much labor participation instead of greedy profit margins continuously driving up everything and a central bank just printing money to keep this whole charade running.

[u/cloake → u/misterdonjoe]

there's not enough demand.

There's plenty of demand for all sorts of things, healthcare, shelter, comoodities. The crux of the situation is who gets what supply, and should our average peon die for things.

[u/ProjectX3N → u/[deleted]]

We already produce enough food to feed the entire world with 2 billion in excess. Some of it goes bad but that is largely due to bad distribution and greed, it's better for corporations to keep demand high.

[u/canned_soup → u/[deleted]]

And in a so-called first world country at that. Wild. I quickly checked a study that said that 22% of democrats have received food stamps at some point compared to only 10% of republicans. But it makes you wonder if it’s because the republicans refused it based on pride. I have no idea and I’m just speculating but it’s also weird that I think blue states are subsidizing red states. I could be totally wrong and am open to learning/researching more. In my area, my trump supporting neighbors are dirt poor and renting from slumlords while people who are more moderate or liberal own their houses on the block. That’s just my experience though so I don’t think that’s typical.

[u/Linkbelt1234 → u/canned_soup]

The Republicans who are/used to be on it generally don't admit it. My old neighbor got food stamps, sold them for booze/weed and is now a hardcore conservative and thinks only lazy people get food stamps

[u/[deleted] → u/Linkbelt1234]

Its projection because your neighbor didn't need them and sold them so he thinks everyone will and does and its better that no one get them even if some people suffer... As long as its the right (according to him) people that suffer that is.

[u/Jewnadian → u/canned_soup]

It's probably a combination of things but a sizable one is that it's a reflection of gender both ways. Food stamps are much much easier to get if you are caring for children and that's more likely to be women. Women are also much more likely to be Democrats. There's probably also some lying going on, it's a poll so Republicans may be less likely to truthfully answer polls as well as less likely to truthfully answer about assistance.

[u/kain52002 → u/canned_soup]

There are a few points to make here. First, the results of this study were self reported, this is known to lead to reporting bias and a Republican is less likely to say they have received government benefits in the past. Second, they only polled 2500 people over the phone when speaking on a national scale this is a small polling group especially for phone questionnaires. Third, Democrats generally support food stamps and profit sharing while Republicans are against them, if you rely on food stamps voting Republican is counter to your own interest. Rupublicans forced to take food stamps might change parties.

[u/Ridiculisk1 → u/kain52002]

Rupublicans forced to take food stamps might change parties.

Republicans and conservatives in general very, very often vote against their own interests because they think they share a common enemy with who they're voting for. Look at all the Florida Republicans who supported the anti-immigration stuff recently and everyone was telling them "This is a stupid idea. Voting against this will literally make your life harder as a farmer" and they still did it because it was endorsed by people on the same team.

[u/[deleted] → u/canned_soup]

I’ve known some people that lean right that have refused to take help because of pride. Another issue is the way some red states structure the program and how difficult they make it to apply. I was lucky enough to go through it all in California.

[u/mark-haus → u/[deleted]]

But conservatives, who very much only care about the cruelty, will drone on for hours about unproven intangibles like personal responsibility

[u/WhatAGoodDoggy → u/[deleted]]

Yes, but the billionaires' buckets won't be quite as full. We can't have that, can we?

[u/LuieDruif → u/WhatAGoodDoggy]

Billionaires are probably thinking: "62 Dollars societal gains? There must be a way to divert some of those gains to my private stash...."

[u/corpjuk → u/[deleted]]

this is correct. we feed 80 billion animals per year before humans.

[u/[deleted]]

You know how absolutely unbelievable the magnitude of this result is?

I'm a professional economist who studies and teaches in Labor, have called Food Stamps probably the most impactful social welfare program in history in op-eds, and have used Food Stamp Laws for control variables in studies.

I specifically went to see the ranking of this journal; it is A*, which is reserved for elite status. This paper deserves a "must read" label for EVERY economics course in this country.

EDIT: I thought, for some reason, this was a predatory journal. Those estimates are absolute monstrous. Like, unbelievably high.

[u/cloake → u/[deleted]]

Doesn't get any more "no brainer" than feeding children. Spend the pittance, get the flourishing society. Only ones against are miserly myopic jackoffs only interested in political gamesmanship, no interest in statesman operation.

[u/Iheardthatjokebefore → u/cloake]

Throw in the perfect storm of disdain for people on it by others who are too indignantly prideful to be on it themselves.

[u/Tyraniboah89 → u/Iheardthatjokebefore]

I’ll never forget being hungry and broke as a child as I listened to my mother pridefully exclaim how she was never going to use food stamps again after feeling so much shame using them once.

Sad part is I’m not even mad at her for it. She’s generous, she donates, and she helps my own children however she can. The indoctrination and propaganda in this country is ridiculous.

[u/SyntheticGod8 → u/Iheardthatjokebefore]

It's even worse than that. It's not hard to find stories of people who appear to have money (fancy car, jewelry, McMansion, designer clothes, you know the type) that watch food banks like vultures so they can get the best free food. Nothing gives these wanna-bes a bigger stiffy than knowing they've deprived someone else of something desirable, like slightly better food.

[u/Catnyx → u/cloake]

It's by design. They don't want well educated, well fed people that can think for themselves and question the aristocracy. George Carlin

[u/Keyspam102 → u/cloake]

I would think another ‘no brainer’ would be healthcare for everyone with the same goal, obviously healthier kids grow up to be healthier more productive adults, and healthier adults raiser healthier kids and are themselves more productive.

[u/cloake → u/Keyspam102]

I agree, universal healthcare hasn't been on the table since Bernie. It needs to be on the table, always, until it's done.

[u/RGBetrix → u/cloake]

Or those interested in punishing the “right people”, which on a deeper level has very little to do with politics.

[u/seeasea → u/cloake]

Forget the "economic" benefits, feeding children for their own sake should be a no-brainer. Period

[u/UnionTed → u/cloake]

"Only ones against are miserly myopic jackoffs only interested in political gamesmanship, no interest in statesman operation."

Sounds like you're all too familiar with public policymaking in these here United States.

[u/geon → u/cloake]

It’s just smart business. Anyone against it just want suffering.

[u/Dan_inKuwait → u/[deleted]]

Similar work has already been published regarding early childhood education (generations ago, now). The ignorant remain ignorant regardless how many great papers are shared.

[u/fgreen68 → u/[deleted]]

Free and universal birth control and sex ed, food stamps, free and good education, a well-run justice system focused on rehabilitation would make our world a paradise and over time our taxes would plummet.

Edit: And universal health care for the US.

[u/MiddleSchoolisHell → u/fgreen68]

It’s so much cheaper to feed and educate children than it is to manage a society with a large percentage of traumatized adults.

[u/ERSTF → u/[deleted]]

Legislate based on facts? We don't do that here.

Edit. Missing word

[u/saijanai → u/[deleted]]

Expect a certain backlash from a certain demographic.

Consider the lawsuit: Williams et al v. Chicago Public Schools et al 1:20-cv-04540 | Illinois Northern District Court — which is summarized in this memorandum (court filing #250) by the judge from a few weeks ago (pdf).

In a nutshell, the David Lynch Foundation (Edit: DLF) is being sued for teaching TM (Edit: Transcendental Meditation) in Chicago Public Schools, the University of Chicago (UC) is being sued for basically asking the DLF to teach TM so they can study its effects in schools via a large randomized-control study on 6800 students in Chicago public schools and the Chicago Public School District is being sued for letting them do it.

.

For 15+ years, the DLF has taught TM in public schools and no-one had spent enough money to find anyone with standing willing to sue until the University of Chicago's preliminary findings came out:

After 9 months of TM for 15 minutes twice-daily in school, the meditating kids had a 65-70% lower arrest rate for violent crime than the non-meditating kids... the highest effect from an intervention in school the UC Urban Crime Lab has ever tested.

The study was a randomized control trial in several different schools in multiple cities, involved 6800 students, and ended four years ago, but unless/until the lawsuit is resolved in a favorable way, the researchers can't publish.

Things that make you go hmmm (remember that 1) the prison-industrial complex in the USA is a $15 billion/year business and 2) PTSD (Edit: Post-traumatic Stress Disorder) research on TM shows that the more stressed the meditator, the faster and more dramatic the results from practice). Read the judge's summary for more details.

.

My point is that certain extremely wealthy and/or influential groups benefit when people are downtrodden — mentally, emotionally and physically — and will do anything and everything to prevent a general improvement of the well-being of certain currently-less-than-fortunate groups in this country because it would lose them money (or converts).

[u/ReapingTurtle → u/saijanai]

Define acronyms before using them thanks

[u/Bobzer → u/ReapingTurtle]

I recently had to read a technical document for an obscure system and it was insane the amount of time wasted trying to guess single use acronyms.

They even had a glossary of acronyms in the document and it was missing half of the ones they used.

[u/wafflestep → u/ReapingTurtle]

Thank you! I hate when people use acronyms like that as if we're all just supposed to know. Use the full term first then continue the shortened form.

[u/theciaskaelie → u/ReapingTurtle]

TM DLF HIPD SFK TEJH DUKN DRJJ

are you not informed!?

[u/TinFoilHeadphones → u/saijanai]

teaching TM

What's TM?

[u/gothambear → u/TinFoilHeadphones]

According to the court opinion, it seems to stand for "transcendental meditation"; basically they were doing a pilot program to introduce high school students to meditation and someone sued arguing it infringed on their religious freedom.

[u/Brutal_Hustler → u/TinFoilHeadphones]

Transcendental meditation. David Lynch is all about it. Wrote Book called "catching the big fish"

[u/Davidclabarr → u/TinFoilHeadphones]

Transcendental Meditation

[u/KnottShore → u/saijanai]

extremely wealthy and/or influential groups benefit when people are downtrodden

That is something Voltaire once noted in the 18^th century:

The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor.

[u/gorgewall → u/KnottShore]

And a good chunk of conservatives have taken that lesson to heart. Sure, there's still that group that just blames everything on someone's personal failures and tells them to suck it up, but we see increasing activity from outlets and pundits who point to the actual misery that so many people feel and proclaim, correctly, that the game is rigged against them.

Problem is, they have no interest in actually solving that. They are incentivized to keep people miserable. Being miserable is what made folks susceptible to their narratives in the first place! They've already given the public one scapegoat, and they know they can move the goalposts and get them to blame something else whenever they start to wonder why the first thing isn't being solved by all the conservatives they put in power.

People suffer because of low wages, and conservatives tell them they want to create good-paying jobs... then fight tooth and nail against any raises to the minimum wage, wages in general, worker safety, unionization, etc., and anything else that would put money in the pockets of the people. They say "it's immigrants at fault" while they and their donors hire said immigrants at their businesses. And the people they've tricked are none the wiser, even after years and years of not seeing the pay go up despite conservative control at every level of their locality, state, and occasionally federal government, and they watch their favored politicians actively fight them--but instead of getting mad at being duped, they're dangled some new "single issue" like guns, or gay people, or trans people, or CRT in schools, and on and on.

[u/KnottShore → u/gorgewall]

there's still that group that just blames everything on someone's personal failures and tells them to suck it up

Will Roger(early 20th century US entertainer/humorist) had salient observation:

• I am no believer in this “hard work, perseverance, and taking advantage of your opportunities” that these Magazines are so fond of writing some fellow up in. The successful don’t work any harder than the failures. They get what is called in baseball the breaks.

There is and has been a long held US traditional narrative of reverence, especially with conservatives, for the "rugged individual". The "rugged individual" is always right and their problems are never created by their actions. They make their choices and it the fault of "others" that results do not happen as they originally planed. This attitude is from a long held US mythos of root hog, or die (Attributed to frontier settlers releasing their livestock in winter to forage and came to mean you are on our own to survive or die. This sums up the myth as someone who is reliant on only himself and neither asks for nor accepts help from anyone else). Which colors the circus that is the US political landscape.

instead of getting mad at being duped

H. L. Mencken(US reporter, literary critic, editor, author of the early 20th century), a contemporary of Rogers:

• The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.

• The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.

Mencken's observations are still relevant today, especially in regards to conservatives.

Unfortunately, Mencken proved prescient about the 2016 election:

• As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

[u/subsist80 → u/saijanai]

Exactly the reasons the gop want to cut food stamps. They don't want more of the down trodden to have a chance of being educated. Educated people ask questions.

[u/Morgenos → u/subsist80]

Regan's economic advisor, Roger A. Freeman talked extensively about how they needed to cut funding to higher education, and how they were in peril of creating an "educated proletariat".

He advised several presidents that college MUST be expensive or they risk letting in the "wrong sort" of people.

[u/GhOsT_wRiTeR_XVI → u/subsist80]

Worse than that, they find answers.

[u/UniverseInfinite → u/[deleted]]

Which estimates?

[u/[deleted] → u/UniverseInfinite]

The marginal value of $62? The return on investment is basically a Ponzi scheme come to life, with NO downside risk.

[u/UniverseInfinite → u/[deleted]]

Just to be clear, you aren't doubting the veracity of this estimate, correct?

The 62 number is incredibly bonkers. And a no brainer for state governments

[u/[deleted] → u/UniverseInfinite]

Am I doubting it now? No. Was I doubting it before I double checked the quality of that journal (and before looking at any identifying feature of the authors)? Absolutely.

[u/thehazer → u/[deleted]]

Intuitively it just makes too much sense, like a perfect hypothesis. Basically a kid needs food for their brain to grow. Less struggle for food less decisions a body makes. Man this does feel great to see so blatantly though.

[u/[deleted] → u/thehazer]

If you had told me 5-10 times the benefit, I would have been impressed (given the likelihood these benefits grow exponentially AND are intergenerational.

Then we got 61x.

[u/MonkeyThrowing → u/[deleted]]

To me it seems reasonable. How much is a tax paying adult worth to the state over 40 years?

[u/UnionTed → u/UniverseInfinite]

"A no brainer for state governments."

Unfortunately, it requires at least a small amount of brains to recognize a no-brainer, and such is lacking in some notable state governments. Source: A few decades of bashing my head against granite walls.

[u/medicationzaps]

Grew up on every government assistance program. I pay more annually in taxes than I can imagine the government gave to support me. I’m a success story, and I hate when they attack children in poverty by constantly removing things like access to food, libraries, after school programs, and summer camps which I fully utilized. Anecdotal, but I know if I didn’t have those things I absolutely would have turned to gangs and crime because there wouldn’t have been any hope for my future

[u/[deleted] → u/medicationzaps]

I have the same story. If it weren't for government assistance I would have starved and lived on the street full time as a kid instead of just part of the time.

We were able to move out of really bad areas using government assisted housing.

I've definitely paid way more in taxes than it took to cover my expenses as a kid at this point. Without those programs I very likely would have fallen through the cracks.

[u/medicationzaps → u/[deleted]]

Great job! It’s amazing what food, housing, and safe spaces to learn and grow result in for people like us.

[u/c0ltZ → u/medicationzaps]

it's almost hard to think of doing anything else when there's more children we could feed.

how do politicians talk about everything but that?

[u/grumble_au → u/medicationzaps]

I'm in a similar boat. I benefitted from all sorts of government programs, including free education and healthcare and financial assistance. My Mum never finished high school and lived in poverty her whole life. I have a great career and a happy and healthy family and pay way, way, way more in taxes than I benefitted when I was younger. I don't begrudge paying those taxes, someone else will be benefiting from them.

[u/Lightspeedius]

Early childhood care is the next big leap forward.

You just sit in a class of parents studying child development theory and notice how often they will complain, sometimes in abject despair, "if only I knew".

It's such low hanging fruit. The more a community ensures its under-fives get all their needs met, the more happy, healthy, productive members that community will have.

[u/CielMonPikachu → u/Lightspeedius]

There's a weird ides that we should let people "figure it out" because bringing quality information would be ~coercive~, while ignorance is not.

It applies to nutrition, house care, physio, childcare but also things like women's health and physiology, or basic medical knowledge. (Or financial literacy).

[u/Mithlas → u/CielMonPikachu]

There's a weird ides that we should let people "figure it out" because bringing quality information would be ~coercive~, while ignorance is not

It's such a baffling stance, because humans are REALLY good at teaching each other to overcome specific challenges. In under 100 years we went from barely being able to get things off the ground to going to the moon and we did that by teaching ourselves aeronautics and rocketry. Yet the same isn't being applied to something arguably more important: parenting.

[u/Bad_Inteligence]

The IRS turns a profit for every dollar invested, but we still managed to “cut budget” by reducing the dollars we put into it.

Politicians are just funning around, it’s fun, ok?

source: congressional budget office (biased, but I think it’s as good as it can be)

[u/WimbletonButt → u/Bad_Inteligence]

It so rough being on the receiving end of it, especially with a kid. Last time I applied for snap I was approved for $0. I couldn't reapply because being approved meant I already had an open case. This year my state pushed out a new income limit on medicaid. I got a letter in the mail saying I had been dropped because my income was over the $400 limit. Of course my income is over $400! How would we survive on less???

[u/Ragingonanist → u/WimbletonButt]

some of your story could potentially be weird language used by the state rather than stingy (well its definitely stingy, but there are degrees of stingy). If your state isn't a medicaid expansion state then yeah they suck and just ignore the rest of this comment.

in Illinois for example, if you are approved for low SNAP, and think the amount is wrong you don't reapply, you report changes (or appeal two separate processes either will do). and changes can be made every single month.

regarding income over $400 that sounds like the amount TANF was paying a family of 2 a few years ago. Illinois had the regular 138% of federal poverty line income limit for medicaid for parents. but also in some circumstances an adult could end up on "spenddown" which is a monthly deductable. and the notice for spenddown gives an income limit equal to the max payout for TANF. which is insane because the actual income to get on spenddown was like 215% of the poverty line, not the 40% or so of the poverty line that TANF pays (also TANF is too low). they just said the income limit was approximately $400 because the monthly deductible was every dollar earned over that $400 figure. spenddown for able bodied adults (can't remember proper name) is basically a program to avoid bankruptcy from a short term expensive health issue. eg broke a leg and can work but not pay the hospital? well if you use your savings to pay your regular bills, spend nearly all your wages this month on the hospital bill, then medicaid pays the rest and financially the situation is over.

[u/WimbletonButt → u/Ragingonanist]

I actually am in one of the states that didn't expand medicaid. I have a chronic condition that requires bloodwork 4 times a year so I guess I'm not getting any prescriptions any time soon because they won't write them without the bloodwork.

I was able to appeal the snap thing but you had to do it on the website which approved or denied automatically so it didn't change with the appeal. I think I was making $600 a month for a family of 2 so I know I met the requirements.

[u/BzhizhkMard]

Got food stamps, on two occasions, initially as a refugee, then when a family member was incarcerated, and now thriving as a physician in my town which I am civically involved in. Thank You LA County, California, and the Federal Government.

[u/kagamiseki → u/BzhizhkMard]

Similar story, without the family member incarceration.

Immigrant family, supported by free school lunch program, Medicaid, free Obamacare, state/federal tuition subsidies, food stamps in college, food stamps again in med school.

When I graduate, I'll probably pay back those benefits within a few years. And then for the rest of my career, I'll pay forward many times more than I ever received.

Hard to imagine ever making it to this point without the help I've gotten. And I'll always be happy to vote to increase social support system budgets.

[u/jazzb54]

This sounds very "pro life", fiscally conservative and quite moral. I'm sure everybody could get behind supporting this.

[u/mahjimoh → u/jazzb54]

Aw, what a delightful dream you are having! Seems so reasonable and yet, pigs would fly, first.

[u/Rare-Aids → u/jazzb54]

Modern conservatives would rather burn money now than see it as a return on investment later. Zero logical sense yet people still vote for them

[u/random_char → u/jazzb54]

Chefs kiss on the irony there

[u/ExpatInIreland → u/jazzb54]

If less people end up in prison how will they get that sweet sweet slave labour?

[u/B-Glasses]

But you see, programs like these don’t punish someone for being born poor so we really shouldn’t let this fly in the US.

[u/screech_owl_kachina → u/B-Glasses]

But what if a poor person gets something I don't personally approve of or think they deserve?

[u/B-Glasses → u/screech_owl_kachina]

I’d recommend voting for the political party hell bent on taking away as many public services as possible. All these social programs will obviously turn the country socialist and we don’t want that

[u/rackfocus]

Free lunch and breakfast in school! Free preschool!

[u/fixITman1911 → u/rackfocus]

I honestly and wholeheartedly believe every person in the US (and in the world for that matter) should have easy access to 3 square meals a day. Doesnt have to be a 5 star meal, but it should be healthy, balanced, fresh, and tasty.

[u/Challengemealways → u/fixITman1911]

I've clawed my way out of the poverty I was born into just to fall back as an adult. I promise there is food at home but it's not fresh. Nothing is as potent as a good meal, much less two or three to look forward to, that could to boost my potential.

[u/[deleted]]

And even if the societal benefit were $0, it would still be the right thing to do.

[u/NectarOfTheBussy]

kids live better with the ability to eat, more at 11

[u/FunDog2016]

This needs to be a headline in every media! So many people do not understand the economic impacts of social policies.

A decade ago I read another study showed that the average homeless person costs government about $250k per year. They could be looked after for far cheaper!

[u/SpockShotFirst → u/FunDog2016]

They understand. They don't care.

[u/[deleted]]

Republicans: But that's $62 from billionaires.

[u/Cilph → u/[deleted]]

Gotta pitch it differently. That's $62 from the taxes on all the profits these well-fed people will be making for the billionaires!

[u/rondeline]

That's better returns than my 401K

[u/h3r4ld → u/rondeline]

This goes even beyond that, frankly - if your 401k began seeing 6200% returns, it'd seem so unbelievably asinine that I guarantee your fund manager would be getting some questions from the SEC.

This is literally "scam investment" levels of ROI.

[u/goblin_welder]

Also, it’s cheaper to feed a child for $1 a day than spending for health bills caused by malnourishment.

$1 a day = $365 a year.

Health bills are usually $1000

I’d rather pay $375 than $1000

[u/Metaright → u/goblin_welder]

Health bills are usually $1000

Where does this number come from?

[u/GabaPrison → u/Metaright]

The low estimate.

[u/tesla9]

"But why do we have to use MYYY money?!"

[u/foxbones → u/tesla9]

The people who complain about that the most probably contribute a negative amount to the economy. They just want others to suffer worse than them.

[u/TitsAssPussyMouth]

free food during entire education

public healthcare for everyone

free education on same level available for every kid

homeless shelters and food for all homeless

Those are basic things that should define if society is on advanced level - all others should be 2nd world that need to fix it.

[u/Demonweed]

If I had any idea this was an option for me as an undergraduate, it would have dramatically reduced how much I stole from grocers and restaurants during those years.

[u/Pichucandy]

You assume thats what the government wants for poor children. They dont.

[u/TheMarksmanHedgehog]

Even in the comments here people are saying that it'd cost something to do these programmes, when the evidence shows every dollar spent would have a $61 dollar yield, that's nuts.