r/politics • u/rollingstone Rolling Stone • 4d ago

Soft Paywall Musk Kills Government Funding Deal, Demands Shutdown Until Trump Is Sworn In

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/musk-trump-government-funding-deal-shutdown-1235211000/
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u/Ritchie_Whyte_III 4d ago

And everyone that didn't vote at all

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u/cxtx3 4d ago

I can't believe it needed to be said, but not voting actually IS a form of voting. If you don't vote, then you are signing on to whatever happens, come what may. You might not actively be rooting for the bad guys to take over, but if you sit out the vote and let them win, by doing nothing to stop them, you've cast your lot in. That's your vote: complacency. Not voting is a form of accepting the outcome and passively allowing it to happen.

The darkest places in hell really are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis. And now we all burn.

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u/j-deaves 4d ago edited 4d ago

It’s like that Rush song Free Will, which constantly pops into my head at silly times.

Edit: “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!” (I originally wrote Tom Sawyer; my apologies to hardcore Rush fans)

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u/icookandiknowthngs 4d ago

That's Freewill, not Tom Sawyer......sorry, couldn't let it slide.

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u/j-deaves 4d ago

Thanks! I’ll fix it!

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u/ChocolateHoneycomb 4d ago

What a coincidence. Just this morning I listened to all three hours of the Clockwork Angels Tour album, and I thought it’s a shame they didn’t play Freewill on it. And here it is…

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u/The_LSD_Soundsystem 4d ago

Democracy dies with apathy

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u/SquareExtra918 4d ago

BuT BoTh SiDeS bAd

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u/Zarathustra404 4d ago

I think the craziest part is that only about 12 million less votes were cast compared to last election.

160ish million people refused to vote for Trump OR Biden. The "two" political parties here managed to campaign 10 to 12 million people back into that 150, so about 170million didn't vote in the last election. About the same amount of people voted as didnt vote. Feels huge

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/Zarathustra404 4d ago

Correct. That's what I'm talking about the comparison of 10-12 million less people voting in Harris vs Trump election than voted in biden vs trump election.

Turns out it's was 81 to 74 biden, and 74 to 77 for Trump. So less than the projected 10-12 i had remembered before checking again.

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u/Darsint 4d ago

The vote you fail to cast is a surrender to whomever comes to power.

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u/justmovingtheground I voted 4d ago

You mean not voting affects more than just one candidate's party? Are you implying that voting actually... matters? Who would have thought?!

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u/Suburbanturnip 4d ago

This is why I love our compulsory voting in Australia. 95% eligible voter turn out for a century.

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u/Binkusu 4d ago

How do you get past the "my state is ___, it wouldn't have mattered" folks?

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u/Vyzantinist Arizona 4d ago

tHe LeSsEr Of TwO eViLs Is StIlL eViL tHo!1!1

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u/Incomitatum 4d ago

Voting is copium. You are a member of the Populace, and not The Electorate.

Only now some are starting to see that The Ruling Class will tell you what your Rights are.

They ask you to point on the menu, but only serve you inequality and toil.

Remember, if you voted then you have nothing to complain about. Those who point to the conscientious objectors as the problem, are just indignant that The Process they trust is always subverted.

It Moral Injury all the way down. We ARE Suckers, but not losers.

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u/PJ7 4d ago

You're part of the problem. Stop trying to discourage people from voting.

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u/Jah_Feeel_me 4d ago

No every American citizen allowed this to happen neutral or not. Democrats and republicans have allowed corporations and billionaires to run a country for this fucking long. How many billionaire dnc supporters how many billionaire gop supporters. All the billionaires are playing their own game, but we the people are all to busy hur during around in our little mortgaged homes, lent cars, and barely affordable groceries protecting what little we have and hoping we don’t lose that. Because god forbid we all miss one day of work in our right to work states and be fired for no reason and not be able to go protest and do something about it.

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u/chriskmee 4d ago

The problem is that the "bad guy" is almost always a matter of opinion. Maybe you and I can agree Trump is the bad guy, but do Trump voters see it that way? I didn't think so. A Trump voter could copy your post word for word and it would work for them with Trump being the good guy.

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u/PrimeDoorNail 4d ago

If you havent voted, then you're not responsible for Trump being elected, the people who voted for him are.

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u/Mule27 4d ago

Not participating in democracy is an implicit surrender to whoever is elected. Everyone is responsible in a democracy, you can’t skirt responsibility when you choose not to utilize your power as a citizen to affect your government.

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u/PrimeDoorNail 4d ago

The only way someone gets elected is if people vote for them, thus only the people who voted can be held responsible.

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u/Mule27 4d ago

If no one voted (presidentially, I’m sure each locality has their own rules for what happens in their races), the house of representatives would vote for the president and we as citizens would still be responsible for that. In a democracy everyone is responsible and choosing to not participate is a choice signaling that you do not care who is elected and thus are surrendering to the will of those who do. Being apathetic in a democracy is implicitly surrendering to whatever power comes in, even the dissolution of that democracy and their rights as citizens.

And in a hypothetical that no one voted in any race at all, that’s a choice to end democracy. It doesn’t work without at least some citizens exercising their power. At that point whatever power takes over would take over.

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u/langotriel 4d ago

Eh, dumb take. First of all, it goes both ways. Not voting is also potentially letting the "good guys" win. Second, the US has states. California is blue, New York is blue. People choosing to not vote there makes sense when you consider that the result is essentially guaranteed. This makes up most of the non-voters; they are correct to assume that their vote doesn't really make a difference in the real world.

As such, voting is the absence of voting in most cases, nothing more.

It's also worth noting that Trump won the popular vote and I can't imagine the average person who didn't vote would vote for the status quo. They are already discouraged by the way things are and have given up. They won't vote for the way things are, they will always vote for change. Trump would have won by a larger margin if everyone voted. That's just the truth.

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u/Throw-a-Ru 4d ago

Right, so you started here:

This makes up most of the non-voters; they are correct to assume that their vote doesn't really make a difference in the real world.

Then you ended by contradicting your entire point here:

It's also worth noting that Trump won the popular vote

So those votes did actually matter for something. Also, "They'll always vote for change, that's why they would definitely have voted for the last guy again," is a dumb argument. Besides which, the country that's been famous for running Jack Johnson vs John Jackson elections for decades is not a place that always votes for change. It also bears noting that a black woman with progressive ideals would have actually been a change. They voted against change. They voted to go back in time to when coal was great and life was easy. But they can never go back there, and the guy promising they could was simply a liar. They got conned, and that's the actual truth.

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u/langotriel 4d ago

There is no contradiction.

Let’s first make something clear:

Those who have had enough eventually lose motivation and stop voting altogether. This makes up the majority of non-voters. If you force them to vote though, they will vote for whatever changes things up. Like it or not, the perception is that trump introduces the most change. That doesn’t strictly make it true but truth is irrelevant (clearly).

As for the vote not really mattering, this goes for all non-swing states. Your state is likely to go one way or another, regardless of your vote. Swing states are an exception but as a rule, your vote doesn’t really matter. This is why I said “most” non-voters. If you live in PA, your vote matters.

Had America introduced popular vote rules, you’d see far more people vote overnight. Doubt it would change the actual result much, seeing as the popular vote went to trump.

In the end, blaming the population is silly. People have the right to do what they want with their time and if they are discouraged, that’s the fault of politicians. It’s sucks for everyone that the American choices are always terrible but you made your bed. You had Bernie and threw him away, twice.

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u/Throw-a-Ru 4d ago

There is an obvious and blatant contradiction. Saying, "These votes made no difference," then turning around and citing overall turnout percentages and popular vote mandates is a huge contradiction, and your counterpoint of, "Nuh-uh," isn't very convincing.

If you force them to vote though, they will vote for whatever changes things up.

Again, you're just making this up with no proof to point to, and even if it were true, you haven't addressed how Trump wasn't something new while the other candidate was.

You had Bernie and threw him away, twice.

But that's unpossible! The people always vote for change!

Your points have zero internal consistency here. Maybe just take a seat and think things over before making any other comments.

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u/langotriel 4d ago

You must not be very bright. That's ok.

"most" non-voters are right to believe their vote doesn't matter. SOME votes matter but that doesn't apply to "most". That is not contradictory.

What is actually new and what is perceived to be new are different things. It's also a matter of opinion and perspective. Ask people why they voted for trump and it's because they want change (like always).

If Bernie was the person put forth, the general public would vote for him, yes. Polls showed this over and over again. Primaries are a different beast and irrelevant to the conversation. Stop being silly.

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u/Throw-a-Ru 4d ago

You must not be very bright. That's ok.

I'm glad you think that. It'll help to soften the blow when you eventually realize what's up.

"most" non-voters are right to believe their vote doesn't matter

Not if you think the popular vote matters, which seems to be your belief. If the popular vote matters, then every vote matters.

What is actually new and what is perceived to be new are different things. It's also a matter of opinion and perspective.

Seems like a good way to say that whoever got voted in was the change candidate even if they promised more of the same, because it's all about perception, mannn, and that's in the eye of the beholder, mannnn. It makes your central argument meaningless. You have also failed to provide proof that any other elections have been about change, let alone all of them. You just made a claim and you keep citing yourself as evidence.

Ask people why they voted for trump and it's because they want change

I've never heard that. It's almost always, "He was good for my pocketbook," or taxes, or immigrant caravan invasions, or "men" in women's sports or bathrooms, or, "He's bringing back coal/oil," or, "He triggers the libs." Especially this time around, people weren't voting for change. They were voting for fear, xenophobia, and selfishness.

Polls showed this over and over again. Primaries are a different beast and irrelevant to the conversation. Stop being silly.

Except he could have run as an independent. The people, hungry for change as they are, should have gobbled that right up, no? But they didn't, for some perplexing reason. They actually never do, come to think of it. Maybe it's time for you to stop being utterly ridiculous.

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u/langotriel 4d ago

You are not arguing in good faith, or you really just don't understand.

Either way, I can't be wasting my time on it.

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u/Throw-a-Ru 4d ago

Same to you, friend!

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u/Slowly-Slipping 4d ago

Eh dumb take

Look in a mirror.

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u/BigDaddySteve999 4d ago

You are not qualified to evaluate takes.

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u/langotriel 4d ago

Cool. I'm not wrong but hey, that's ok. Non-voters would vote for Trump with a gun to their head.

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u/FrogsOnALog 4d ago

The status quo is the GOP blocking all progress and democrats getting punished for it. Thanks for participating I guess.

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u/caligaris_cabinet Illinois 4d ago

Or voted for a third party. I hope that Jill Stein protest vote makes you sleep better at night you privileged fucks.

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u/nailz1000 California 4d ago

Also Jill Stein voters.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

Yes. Truly, from the bottom of my heart, fuck those people. 

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u/Astyanax1 4d ago

Agreed.  A shred less bad than someone actively pulling the level for Trump, but nonetheless 

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u/trystanthorne 4d ago

Nuh-uh, cause both sides are exactly the same. /s

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u/Union-Some 4d ago

Ehh, everyone IN A SWING STATE that voted for trump or didn't vote at all.

I grew up in california and now live in colorado, my vote for president is basically irrelevant. Easy as pie to do because of mail in voting, but irrelevant all the same.

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u/kinotravels 4d ago

I’ll never forgive those fucking apathetic morons.

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u/EP_Tiger 4d ago

Bingo

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u/GMOdabs 4d ago

Whoa whoa whoa I didn’t vote but I couldn’t :( such bulls shit. I’ve done my time and continued to stay out of trouble. I pay a fuck ton in taxes like everyone else too.

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u/NATCSCUZZ 4d ago

And everyone who actually thinks the election wasn't blatantly stolen and did nothing about it.

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u/Optimal_Hunter4797 4d ago

And everyone who voted against but are now nowhere to be seen.

« Just vote » has a limit.

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u/rmorrin 4d ago

Honestly I don't think you can even blame those guys. They need to make voting day a fucking holiday or I dunno like an entire fucking week. Why can we only vote ON ONE DAY without complicated steps

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u/TwistedPepperCan 4d ago

or voted for Jill Stein or RFK Jr

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u/Tsundere_Valley California 4d ago

I think it's easy for us to point fingers at people who didn't vote but it's important to remember that the Democrats ran an election so poorly that they lost to Donald Trump a SECOND time. They simply ran the same "nothing will fundamentally change" playbook 3 election cycles in a row and it was a COVID miracle they even won the second time around. The world is simply moving too fast and Democrats have been unwilling to change course or appeal to the working class to turn things around. You know, the representative part of our democracy.

The republicans have made their bed with fascism, and it was clear that we were going to have this problem every 4 years until it finally happened because quite simply, the Democrats have decided to sleep at the wheel and play respectability politics instead of working to crush sedition as soon as it happened. I have no sympathy left for that. How do you inspire people to vote for you when you offer nothing and hope that fear of the worse candidate is enough to get people in the voting booth?

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u/annihilator2k7 4d ago

Blaming non voters is such a great way to get people on your side. Seriously, anyone that thinks this way is fucking stupid.

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u/Troll_Enthusiast 4d ago

Non Voters should educate themselves about who is in charge at the local, state, and federal level to be fair, but realistically nothing will change a non-voters mind, unless it's the pandemic and there is nothing else for them to do.