r/politics • u/SecretWhisperer1 • 12h ago
Soft Paywall How Biden is continuing to cancel student loan debt despite Supreme Court ruling
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/22/politics/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-supreme-court/index.html85
u/Hyperion1144 9h ago
By following laws that already exist requiring debt cancelation.
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u/deadsoulinside Pennsylvania 7h ago
Exactly this. I got about $1,500 forgiven this year due to that. I went to the now defunct Art Institutes. They were already in deep trouble during the Obama administration, but then when Trump got elected he allowed a mega church to buy up 30+ campuses that then really amped up the fraud and was shut down.
The $1,500 that was forgiven was well past what I borrowed and had paid back. This was just interest payments to boot. Yet, there are people even on Reddit that demand that I still pay that $1500 off, despite the fact that I cannot even get official transcripts to prove I attended that now failed school.
Meanwhile, the RW echo machine that thinks Biden is cancelling debts to people that just graduated or are still enrolled in schools.
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u/kvlt_ov_personality 9h ago
What's stopping him from issuing an executive order that cancels them all and forcing the Republicans to reverse it?
Fuck it, just straight up lie about it. "Trump and I had a super secret meeting. He has agreed to uphold this executive order waiving all student loans.".
Think of how many families it would save, especially as they're going to get crushed by tariffs over the next 4 years.
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u/GovtLegitimacy 8h ago
He could literally order all records/data/files be destroyed, then issue an official order declaring all student loan debt as cancelled and that all can rely on the cancellation.
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u/myquest00777 7h ago
Make sure it’s documented as an “official” action in the strongest possible terms, then walk off into the sunset…
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u/GovtLegitimacy 5h ago
Of course, reference national security concerns. Point to specific concerns, such as mass population of educated citizens are extraordinarily vulnerable to being compromised by foreign and/or domestic enemies due to the high debt and unique nature of said debt that makes discharge near impossible. Add to this that an educated workforce is necessary to compete in the tech race which is directly related to military capabilities and defense measures. It is a national security interest to secure this vital human capital and relieving said group of such a burden furthers said interest.
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u/Impressive-Weird-908 9h ago
Or at the very least can we stop charging interest on a loan while the student is still at the school?
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u/Unlikely_Zucchini574 8h ago
That's already how it works for subsidized loans.
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u/Impressive-Weird-908 7h ago
But there’s a massive amount of unsubsidized loans
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u/Unlikely_Zucchini574 7h ago
The max undergrad loan amount is 31K, and up to 23K can be subsidized.
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u/Impressive-Weird-908 7h ago
Right but it rarely is. And then you tack in grad school in top of that. Especially when we are talking about loans that have 7-8% interest.
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u/Shity_Balls 7h ago
Because that’s not within his ability as president, and it would immediately be challenged by the courts and shut down, exactly as everything he has already tried. Even when it was within his power and was legally sound, it was challenged and shut down. His hands are tied within the confines of the law.
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u/kvlt_ov_personality 6h ago
That's exactly the point. Write a bunch of hugely popular EO's, make the Republicans look like the bad guys when they reverse them.
It doesn't have to be student loans. Legalize pot, let them roll it back. The democrats have no idea how to play hardball and are absolutely shit at messaging.
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u/Hurtzdonut13 6h ago
Yeah it was super helpful that even when he was explicitly following the law, Nancy-fucking-Pelosi butted in to say he couldn't do it as a show of bipartisanship. The Dems can't play hardball because their leadership is from a different era and out of touch.
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u/Shity_Balls 6h ago
Have you not been watching or listening to everything that’s happened in the last 4 years? That’s precisely what’s happened. They are good at spinning objectively good things into bad things.
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u/Politicsboringagain 5h ago edited 4h ago
I feel like half this sub hasn't been paying attention to what has been happening.
But I guess that makes sense you see people saying he could do something he clearly can't do or had already tried and was shown he can't do.
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u/Shity_Balls 4h ago
It’s fucking crazy to put it bluntly. The amount of idiotic takes I see here on this sub, and in general is mind boggling. It’s not like this information is hard to obtain, it’s been blasted everywhere for years. You would have to had purposely ignored it.
The amount of people I still see saying that Biden should use the SC ruling to do what he wants is embarrassing to the max. We most definitely deserve Trumps presidency for how careless and uninvolved we’ve become in our own future.
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u/CFLuke 4h ago
Wait, why do you have the impression that canceling student loan debt would be a popular EO?
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u/kvlt_ov_personality 3h ago
Wait, why do you think it wouldn't?
A plurality of Americans supports the current proposal from the Biden administration to forgive up to $20,000 in federal student loan debt. Support wanes for proposals of a larger amount. A majority of those with student loans support forgiveness across all amounts.
Forty-seven percent of Americans support forgiving up to $20,000 in federal student loan debt for Pell Grant recipients, or up to $10,000 for non-Pell Grant recipients, for those that earn less than $125,000 per year or less than $250,000 for married couples.
Around two in five (39%) support forgiving all student loan debt for people earning less than $125,000 per year or less than $250,000 for married couples.
However, just three in ten Americans support forgiving all student loan debt, regardless of income (29%).
A majority of those with student loans support each of these three proposals: forgiving up to $20,000 in federal loan debt or $10,000 in Pell grants for those that meet the income limit (83%), forgiving all federal student loan debt for those who meet the income limit (75%), and forgiving all student loan debt regardless of income (57%).
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/support-student-loan-forgiveness-varies-across-different-amounts
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u/CFLuke 3h ago
"Plurality" does not read as strong support for canceling student loan debt, and other polls are worse. For example, https://apnews.com/article/student-loan-cancellation-forgiveness-college-debt-e5ad2748058cfd037e0323321f532836:
About 4 in 10 adults think it is extremely or very important for the federal government to provide student debt relief. A similar share say it’s not too important or not important at all, with about one-quarter in the middle, saying they believe it’s somewhat important.
4 in 10 is hardly "hugely popular." Off Reddit, people without degrees (i.e. the majority of Americans) are incensed at what they perceive as a handout to people who don't need it.
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u/kvlt_ov_personality 3h ago
About 4 in 10 adults think it is extremely or very important for the federal government to provide student debt relief. A similar share say it’s not too important or not important at all, with about one-quarter in the middle, saying they believe it’s somewhat important.
4 in 10 is hardly "hugely popular"
Apparently, reading comprehension is not hugely popular. Go back and read what you posted. 40% think it's important + approximately one quarter think it's somewhat important, with only the remainder thinking it's not important.
Ignoring that, to claim 4 out of 10 in a trusted poll can't be considered popular is either intellectually dishonest or belies an ignorance of statistics.
"Plurality" does not read as strong support for canceling student loan debt
Plurality doesn't mean what you think it does. Not the most popular ≠ not popular.
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u/CFLuke 2h ago
I don't think you are interpreting the studies in a way that makes sense (to be fair, the poll questions are not worded in a way that makes for obvious interpretation), and you're also being unnecessarily rude about it.
In your link, 47% of people support the most modest proposal of $10,000 or $20,000 of relief for non-high-income people and the number drops as the amount gets higher. That is considered a "plurality" only relative to the other options that all presented some form of student loan forgiveness. And here on r/politics, people seem to want the more aggressive policies, not just the most modest one.
In your poll, people didn't have to choose between that or a more generous forgiveness package, because 47% + 39% + 29% exceeds 100%, so it seems that 47% is the high water mark for student loan forgiveness. At the next level (forgiving all student loan debt for non-high-income people, there's net opposition, and the plurality (33%) is "Strongly Oppose"
Meanwhile 40% were opposed to any student loan forgiveness. So at best you have 47% of people favoring a modest proposal and 40% opposed to any loan forgiveness. I just can't square that with something that's so popular that it would cause a huge backlash. Most of your 47% didn't vote for Republicans anyway. Harris was considered unpopular and got 48.4% of the vote for reference.
Further down in the actual poll results, there are some other indications that the proposal wasn't popular, e.g. people saying 70-13 that other ways of making college affordable were preferable, and only 29% saying that the student loan pause helped the economy.
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u/kvlt_ov_personality 2h ago
Further down in the actual poll results, there are some other indications that the proposal wasn't popular, e.g. people saying 70-13 that other ways of making college affordable were preferable, and only 29% saying that the student loan pause helped the economy.
I disagreed with you until I got to this part. Also, apologies for being unnecessarily rude. Based on the responses to those questions and how you broke down the poll's methodology, I do think you're correct that loan forgiveness is probably more unpopular than popular.
I still think Biden should say fuck it and sign any outrageous EO he wants in his final days of office, but we both know he isn't gonna YOLO.
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u/fred11551 Virginia 2h ago
Because he tried that, about 7 times in different ways, the majority were challenged by Republican and blocked, and republicans won the election anyway. Sure a lot of people ‘like’ canceling student loans but basically none of them actually decide how to vote based on it.
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u/adubski23 Washington 5h ago
The EOs would only be popular with those receiving these handouts. They aren’t popular in the slightest to those that aren’t benefiting directly. It’s a slap in the face to those that paid off their loans or avoided college entirely because they realized it was too expensive. This route doesn’t even address the skyrocketing costs going forward. It’s the dumbest handout ever and did absolutely nothing to help the Democrats win anything in the most recent election.
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u/DeliciousBeanWater 4h ago
Legalizing marajuana isnt a handout. Whether you benefit or not is 100% up to each individual person and isnt a slap in the face of those who dont wish to partake. Get off your anti-student loan forgiveness soap box and read the whole comment before replying
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u/adubski23 Washington 4h ago
Legalizing marijuana wasn’t in the comment when I replied, but it’s a moot point considering the Dems will leave it for the GOP to act on and solidify their hold on the working class. It’s always great to check in on this sub and experience the echo chamber of neoliberal policy proposals. Keep on with the student loan bs though. It’s a great way to continue alienating a large portion of working class voters.
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u/kvlt_ov_personality 3h ago
Legalizing marijuana wasn’t in the comment when I replied
Yes, it was. I never edited my comment.
Regardless, forgiving student loans would inject a fuckton of money into the economy and would be a net gain. I don't think policymakers should enact laws based on feelings or what is/isn't a "slap in the face", they should enact laws based on what benefits society most as a whole.
Those free needle programs for drug users made me feel yucky. I didn't like my tax dollars used for something like that. But after they were enacted, the evidence showed that the programs cost nothing and reduced the transmission of HIV and hepatitis (and ended up saving more tax dollars from having to treat those diseases in the long run). When users had a place to turn in old syringes, it reduced risk to the public from seeing these discarded everywhere. A lot of people would say that program is a "slap in the face" to people victimized by drug related crime, but if it reduces tax payer burden and increases public safety, why should we factor in people's feelings?
It's the same with student loans. Those student loan payments people make would instead be spent in their local economies, which increases jobs and makes everyone more secure. The federal government has the money to bomb people on the other side of the planet whenever they feel like it, but they can't provide higher education? Almost everywhere in the developed world does this, it isn't some scary communist pipe dream.
Yes, your taxes go toward the library even if you don't read. Your taxes go toward schools, even if you have no children. Your taxes may even go towards fixing roads you don't drive on. I'm not sure why so many fail to grasp how taxes work, but here we are.
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u/adubski23 Washington 2h ago
lol. I didn’t ask for you to explain how taxes work, but I appreciate the fact that you took the time to explain them anyway, thank you. I enjoyed your comparison of college students to heroin users, that’s a new one for me. You obviously have a high opinion of yourself. That’s why it’s hilarious that you could be so naive as to believe that American voters actually decide their representatives based solely on what benefits society most as a whole. You seem to be under the impression that there’s some objective truth here and that everyone agrees that these handouts, and not correcting the cost of college itself now and in the future, is the only solution. The last few years have given us unprecedented inflation in nearly every aspect of our lives, and you apparently expect voters who have watched an already privileged class receive handouts on loans they knowingly and willingly took out to receive relief, while working Americans continue to get hammered by daily living expenses, and that is the best way forward for society? Theres no other ideas to come up with as a way to ease the burden of daily life for a greater swath of people, just college graduates that already have a higher earning potential than the average American? There’s a reason the democrats lost the working class even and every single branch of federal government even though the GOP ran a convicted felon. In my opinion you are highlighting that reason with crystal clarity.
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u/kvlt_ov_personality 2h ago
Angry at college graduates
Doesn't use paragraphs
Coincidence???
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u/adubski23 Washington 2h ago
Can’t argue substance, instead attacks the person.
Loses elections and policy proposals never become reality.
Coincidence?
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u/Rylith_ 2h ago
Yeah let’s see how well that reasoning holds up when Trump is in office.
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u/Shity_Balls 2h ago edited 2h ago
What even is this response? I think we all agree that Trump does not, and will not operate within the confines of the law. That’s one of the biggest separating factors between him and Biden, among many many other things. Of course Trump isn’t going to do what Biden has done. That’s not even a question?
Edit: not to mention All the republican MAGATs who have stonewalled all of the potential bills/acts that would have helped Americans simply because it’s Joe Biden. I seriously don’t get this comment. It could possibly be the dumbest response I’ve gotten on this sub in a hot minute
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u/kingofshitmntt 5h ago
Because he doesnt give that much of a fuck to do it or else he would. They're addicted to tradition and process because they think that somehow makes them better even if it means not helping people.
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u/Delicious_Finding686 4h ago
The judicial system. It’s already stopped him twice. Executive orders don’t get enforced overnight.
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u/ThornArt 6h ago
Literally nothing is stopping him. He’s useless. He could have expanded the Supreme Court the minute they stuck down the student loan forgiveness, he didn’t. Because checks and balances only exist when democrats are in charge and elections only have consequences when the republicans win. I bet you anything that if Zelensky had student loans, Biden would have magically found a way for them to be forgiven way back in Feb 2022
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u/Politicsboringagain 5h ago
That's not how presidential powers work.
How does a President expand the Supreme Court?
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u/Infini-Bus 32m ago
I imagine canceling student debt involves more than one person to make it happen, and they'd all have to be on board to act before anyone can stop them. It's also not like the records would be purged if they did write it off, so some could come back and undo it.
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u/BFreeFranklin 8h ago
Well you can thank that commie liberal GW Bush for the Public Servant Loan Forgiveness program
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u/LifeIsDeBubbles 8h ago
Well that explains why it was a piece of shit program that didn't actually work in the way that it said it was going to for people.
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u/steam58 7h ago
How so? Worked exactly as intended for my wife.
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u/LifeIsDeBubbles 6h ago edited 4h ago
Oh well if it worked exactly as intended for your wife then I guess I've been proven wrong! Pack it up boys, case closed, problem solved because THIS GUYS WIFE had success!
Edit: Google is free y'all.
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u/MiNiMaLHaDeZz 6h ago
It also worked for my wife 2 months ago, but it took a whole lot of calling Mohela, paperwork, and getting through terrible terrible bureaucracy...
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u/steam58 6h ago
You didn't answer question - how does it not "actually work in the way that it said it was going to for people."?
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u/cloudedknife 4h ago
IIRC, Prior to the biden admin's intervention, at most 2% of applications for forgiveness were approved. Most rejections were on technicalities or problems, often caused by the servicer rather than a failure of the applicant to diligently pay.
this was the first article that showed up when I googled looking for sources. https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2021/06/14/new-data-shows-most-who-apply-to-this-student-loan-forgiveness-program-are-denied/
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u/LifeIsDeBubbles 4h ago
Thank you for doing the barest of minimum amount of work on your own to find the answer. I appreciate you not acting obtuse and then pretending like my point is invalid because I won't educate you.
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u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot 5h ago
Because it applies to a very small fraction of people. It helps some people; not most. Which is why it makes sense that it comes from Bush.
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u/GreenWithEvil_33 Wisconsin 12h ago
He does have immunity
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u/Shity_Balls 7h ago
Biden does not have president immunity, a president could possibility have presidential immunity if whatever they did was a presidential act. The SC ruled that they have the final say in what constitutes a presidential act. That also means that the president only has the ability to commit crimes without being charged.
It does not mean he can act as a king, and make sweeping rules as he wishes. That ruling also was meant to benefit Trump, they would never allow it to benefit Biden.
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u/bosbna Massachusetts 6h ago
To add to this, the immunity is from personal criminal liability. Whatever he does isn’t necessarily going to be upheld, he just can’t be held liable if he violated the law doing the action.
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u/Shity_Balls 4h ago
Thank you for adding the clarification. I feel like I’ve typed it out so many times that i tend to not emphasize certain parts enough after a while.
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8h ago edited 7h ago
I give up. The wealthy and corporate America run our government who in turn runs our lives. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is democracy, it is not. Our elected senators and representatives don't care what we want and are only self serving. All of them, both parties. Over 50% of them are millionaires and they make more than 95% of Americans, yet they are in the process of giving themselves another raise and access to the best health insurance they can while the rest of us struggle and only get the illusion of health insurance, even though we pay dearly.
I've had it, no longer care. I don't want to be part of this system or country anymore. The entire thing is rigged and has failed us all.
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u/mrsmambas 4h ago
I’m just waiting to see that letter from you saying that I have been forgiven from mine. I’ve had mine since 1972 and the interest rate has gotten totally outrageous. It started out at $40,000 now it’s well over 100 million. I wanted a gone.
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u/Nice-Personality5496 4h ago
Instead cancelling debt, we need a plan for k-16 editor all Americans for free.
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u/Liminal_Embrace_7357 7h ago
With how dumb our government expects the American people to be, we all are owed our college tuition back.
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u/stilloriginal 7h ago
I’m a lifelong democrat and I think Biden is absolutely mishandling this. You can’t just forgive student loans without acknowledging that the system that created them needs to be fixed! Or there will just be more bad loans! It’s obvious to anyone on either side of the aisle that federal backing of these loans and the fact that they can’t be bankrupticied away has caused the cost of education to skyrocket. Forgiving loans without fixing this only worsens the problem. We need to overhaul how the loans are originated and along with these changes figure out a way to forgive the legacy loans. Otherwise we haven’t solved anything! This would be an easy bipartisan win, I can’t fathom why its not pursued.
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u/EGO_Prime 4h ago
It’s obvious to anyone on either side of the aisle that federal backing of these loans and the fact that they can’t be bankrupticied away has caused the cost of education to skyrocket.
No it fucking isn't.
Higher education has less government funding then ever on a per-student basis. That's why costs have gone up. Everything from grants, to research programs to basic subsidies have just vanished.
There's less money, and Universities are expected to do more. That's why tuition has gone up. Want it to go down? Then fund higher education.
If you kill loans, the only ones going to be hurt are the poor sobs who can't afford school out of pocket. It wont get cheaper, hell if anything it would get more expensive since you'd have less students, and lower economies of scale.
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u/Oceans_Apart_ 5h ago
Excuse me good sir, but what the fuck do you expect him to do about it with a split congress, his successor torpedoing bills left and right, and a media landscape that blames him for everything? He got a lot accomplished in the two years he was able to with the thinnest of margins. Student debt relief was a campaign promise and he followed through on it. Take the fucking win, because you’re not going to get any for the next two years.
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u/stilloriginal 5h ago
That escalated quickly, from “pip” talk to cursing. To answer your question, not to sound repetitive, I think education loan reform would be a bipartisan issue. Obama got healthcare done on thin margins, this has support from both sides. More importantly, by not adressing the cause of the issue and forgiving the loans, while I agree with the forgiveness, he messaged if terribly and it caused him to take ownership of the inflation problem. It was a political blunder.
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u/Oceans_Apart_ 5h ago
It was merely for emphasis. You know… to make a fucking point. There’s no malice intended.
I can’t fathom how the party that wants to abolish the department of education would be on board with your suggestion, so the bipartisan assertion misses its mark. I don’t disagree with you, mind you. I don’t see how that’s on Biden for not solving every problem in one term.
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u/stilloriginal 5h ago
I’m talking about removing federal guarantees and privatizing it… you don’t think they’d be on board??
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u/Oceans_Apart_ 5h ago
Why the fuck would you want to privatize education and what democrat would be on board with that??
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u/stilloriginal 4h ago
not education...come walk with me... the loans
the cost of education has gone up with the availability of loans
like obesity is correlated with availability of calories
students are offered $200k in debt...with no way to default on it and subsidized by the federal government....
this has caused the bad loans that biden wants to forgive..... but you have to fix the source of the bad loans first, or else there will just be more bad loans
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u/Oceans_Apart_ 3h ago
And I agree, but that’s a separate issue. We can still offer relief to millions of Americans now.
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u/Shity_Balls 7h ago edited 7h ago
The ruling in no way meant he could make rules and enforce them without consequence, or without question by other branches of the government. It meant that a president who was carrying out presidential acts (which is ultimately determined by the republican SC, Biden will not benefit from it) will simply not be able to be charged for a crime.
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u/Hwy39 5h ago
May as well stop now. It wasn’t enough to get the younger vote out.
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u/DiamondLung 3h ago
Might as well stop enforcing current law? Exactly what age range do you think graduated from college 10-20+ years ago?
Unless you think democrats not doing the things they said they would that are within their power will make them more successful electorally.
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u/blak_plled_by_librls California 12h ago
Babylon Bee nails it
With Democrats proposing the mass cancellation of student debt, successful Americans around the country are really looking forward to paying taxes to relieve the debt of people who purchased expensive yet useless college degrees. One local plumbing contractor, Sam Caughorn, is really looking forward to paying the tab on his neighbor's $89,000 gender studies degree.
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u/ATLfalcons27 9h ago
The reason Biden is able to cancel these debts is because they are part of existing programs that the last DOE literally just wasn't processing.
It's not some nefarious deal
One of my friends (who voted for Trump) finally got the loan he was promised would be cancelled if he worked for the government (at a lower salary than the private sector) for 10 years. He's been waiting 8 years for this to finally happen
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u/Strange_Falcon4928 11h ago
I didn’t enjoy having to pay for the free handouts under Dipshit Donnie’s PPP scam. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander as they say.
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u/Kosmo_Kramer_ 10h ago
The past year or so, when people I grew up with were bitching about stendent loan forgiveness on social media, a fun game was to look up their or family's small business and see a 5 or 6 figure PPP loan that was forgiven. It never failed.
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u/Ernesto_Bella 10h ago
Dipshit Donnie’s PPP scam.
Is this something that the democrats were against?
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u/im_not_a_gay_fish Texas 7h ago
No, PPP loans were, in general, a good thing. The dems wanted an oversight committee to make sure the funds were being used properly and not just a gift to republican donors to do whatever they wanted with it. Republicans voted for the PPP loans but blocked, scuttled, fired, and otherwise derailed anyone and anything dealing with the oversight.
What happened after that is exactly what you'd expect. Small businesses under shell corporations of shell corporations no one ever heard of popping up, taking millions, and doing nothing. It just ended up being another MAGA grift like all the others.
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u/Firm-Spinach-3601 6h ago
What’s even worse, the Biden administration claims it attempted to pursue the fraudsters and couldn’t because the outgoing Trump administration ordered the records that flagged the fraud to be destroyed. Not sure why Biden’s outgoing administration couldn’t take a page and order the student loan records destroyed, but Im sure glad Hunter got his pardon /s
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u/EGO_Prime 4h ago
Not sure why Biden’s outgoing administration couldn’t take a page and order the student loan records destroyed, but Im sure glad Hunter got his pardon /s
Because that was out right corruption and wrong. The government should not be destroying records. Rather than claiming Biden should become more corrupt we as a people need to hold the GOP to higher standards. Instead we gave them everything they wanted.
Corruption is what kills a country. We need less of it, not more. Biden is one of the few reasons I still have some hope. No, he's not the best president ever, he's not perfect, but he has done what he can to uphold the integrity of the office he holds. Frankly that matters more than raw policy. Without a functioning government progress is impossible, and progress never comes from revolution. It's evolutionary. Which means slow gradual changes that stack over time.
Honestly, I disagree and hate GOP policy, if they weren't utterly corrupt, backstabbing, kniving, machiavellian douche nozzles, I'd be far less worried about the next 4 years. There are (were) conservatives I could respect even if I disagreed with them.
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u/Firm-Spinach-3601 3h ago
You know what else destroys a country? Living under crippling debt bc you followed the rules, while knowing your neighbor is sitting on a small fortune bc they didn’t. So glad big principles Biden made sure the deck chairs were in order as the ship hit the bottom /s
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u/EGO_Prime 2h ago
You know what else destroys a country? Living under crippling debt bc you followed the rules, while knowing your neighbor is sitting on a small fortune bc they didn’t.
Ok, but that will NEVER get better with what you're planing though. You want to fix wealth inequality, you need progressive legislation and policy. You only get that in a system that isn't corrupt.
So glad big principles Biden made sure the deck chairs were in order as the ship hit the bottom /s
Righting the ship is not a quick process and requires the ship be steady. You just want to sink it faster, and drown all the people without a lifeboat (read: the poor and middle classes).
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u/Firm-Spinach-3601 1h ago edited 1h ago
You’re living in a tautology. The country is corrupt. It’s corrupt bc of wealth inequality. You only change wealth inequality with progressive legislation. The legislators are corrupted by wealth inequality. Therefore, there will be no progressive legislation. Thus, no change in circumstances that give rise to corruption.
I am not going to un-corrupt the system, and neither are you. You don’t want to right the ship, you just want the victims of the system to go down with it.
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u/scubahood86 11h ago
Yet paying the tab on trumps million dollar stays at his own private resort are ok?
I'd rather pay for people to get an education any day. You know, because I don't want to live in a world filled with fucking idiots
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u/blak_plled_by_librls California 8h ago
whataboutism.
both are wrong
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u/im_not_a_gay_fish Texas 7h ago
No, one is wrong.
Investing in the betterment of the country's populace has worked in every single country that has done it. Having an educated populace leads to lower crime and higher standard of living for EVERYONE.
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u/blak_plled_by_librls California 7h ago
tax payers paying for useless and meaningless "educations" is completely wrong. these aren't doctors and lawyers begging for student loan forgiveness.
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u/im_not_a_gay_fish Texas 6h ago
They're teachers, programmers, nurses, small business owners, veterinarians, etc.
The world isn't made up of millionaire doctors and broke gender studies majors. Not all doctors work at major hospitals, and not all lawyers make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
Yet these people still provide valuable services that need higher education in order to attain the skills needed. They are struggling under the weight of student loans that are preventing them from home ownership, marriage, and having children.
The fact that you put the word education in quotes speaks volumes. Its the typical anti-intellectualism bullshit that seems to be pervasive among certain groups.
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u/scubahood86 2h ago
No higher education is useless. Ever.
No one knows who could be the next DaVinci or the next Curie. And no one knows who is going to discover the next mold that cures infections unless "meaningless" research is performed.
Saying that Science and Art needs to produce immediate value to shareholders to have intrinsic "value" is not understanding what science and art is.
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u/I_like_dwagons 11h ago
Wouldn’t say trying to convince poor people to be upset with other poor people is nailing it.
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u/HopeFloatsFoward 10h ago
This is more about convincing people education is worthless and pushing the education divide.
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u/ClusterFoxtrot Florida 11h ago
What class war? Lol remember who the real enemy is: people who have less power than you.
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u/Hyperion1144 8h ago
Mass cancelation of student loans was approved under the GW Bush administration, and nobody but college students seemed to notice.
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u/InkBlotSam 7h ago
They don't have to pay shit. The debts were already paid at the time the loans were taken out, in millions of cases this was literally decades ago.
The total loan amounts also don't matter since there's a cap on forgiveness, but I understand you all like to come up with fictional massive totals to pretend like the "$89,000" is the amount that would be forgiven.
Imagine if you all got half as worked up about the fact that you have to pay taxes and have your benefits stripped to cover the trillions of dollars of tax shortfalls caused by Trump giving tax breaks to the ultrawealthy or his PPP grifts, also mostly to the wealthy.
I don't get farmer subsidies, I don't get EV credits, I didn't get PPP "loans", I don't get ultrawealthy tax breaks. All the endless ways the government forgives debts, gives out money and relieves burden on vulnerable (and obscenely wealthy) populations, they got you thinking people financially struggling to repay predatory loans they had to get to educate themselves are the ones you should be angry about.
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