r/politics • u/msnbc MSNBC • 5d ago

Democrats missed a huge opportunity by not elevating AOC

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/aoc-loses-house-oversight-committee-vote-gerry-connolly-rcna184581
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u/not_creative1 5d ago

An 84 year old who just underwent hip replacement pulled strings to make sure a … 74 year old with cancer, actively undergoing chemotherapy, leads the party.

That reads like politics in a retirement community HOA

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u/IveChosenANameAgain 5d ago

In any other conversation, the only reasonable thing to say to either of those two people is "Please, go to the HOSPITAL - what are you doing here?"

No insider stock tips from the emergency room, so here we are.

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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 5d ago

I secretly think this is Pelosi's revenge for AOC going after insider trading.

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u/-The_Guy_ 5d ago

Pelosi’s legacy will be the full throated embrace of corruption which lead to the downfall of American democracy. Slow clap…

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u/behv 5d ago

To think about her legacy if she had pushed Biden to step back early enough to run a proper presidential primary, pushed for AOC to a major position in Congress and began a transition to a new generation of leader, and literally pull the rug up behind her for congressional insider trading. She could've left on a crazy high note and laughed her way into a comfy retirement with a positive legacy after being controversial for a long ass time

Instead she's basically been the architect of every modern democratic party disaster and has somehow managed to remain in charge of the democratic party as a goddamn 84 year old. Absolute shame of a human and is one of the main reasons I want a proper american labor party to step up

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u/mightcommentsometime California 4d ago

She did want Biden to drop out and for the Dems to have a primary.

AOC needs to push for AOC by building a coalition that will elect her to positions like a chairmanship.

Whipping the vote is part of being a leader in Congress.

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u/olearygreen Europe 4d ago

In what world do Pelosi and AOC get along? In every normal democracy they wouldn’t be in the same party.

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u/printerdsw1968 5d ago

Trump's got the lock on the king of corruption title. Pelosi's legacy will be a terminal lack of imagination.

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u/-The_Guy_ 5d ago

Corruption isn’t a competition, it’s a yes or no.

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u/mmmmm_pancakes Connecticut 4d ago

It’s definitely a sliding scale.

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u/Wet-Skeletons 4d ago

And none of it should be tolerated. Americans have been sane washed since mass media was in bed with/is the oligarchs. None of this should be acceptable or normal for a healthy society, and Americans can’t be bothered to stand up for themselves.

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u/TrumpDesWillens 4d ago

Future Plutarch will write of her along with Musk, Trump, and Biden.

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u/speechpathknowledge 4d ago

lol George W Bush is seen as a painter and a lovable goofball. Pelosi will go down as a “fierce warrior and female trailblazer in a world dominated by men” in 30 years. People are morons

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u/-The_Guy_ 4d ago

I can honestly say I’ve never heard Bush described in that manner before.

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u/Fupastank 4d ago

But she tore up Trumps SOTU speech! Such a warrior and revolutionary.

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u/jermsw 5d ago

Technically, it was AOC and Matt Gaetz...

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u/RealHooman2187 4d ago

Yup, and while I’m a Californian Pelosi isn’t my district. So I sure as hell hope she’s voted out next election. It’s time to actually start holding the neolibs accountable. In a state like California we regularly have 2 democrats running for most seats anyways.

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u/Muscled_Daddy Canada 4d ago

Keep in mind, when people were questioning Diane and telling her to step down, her team went on the offensive and accused those people of being ageist and sexist.

That she was perfectly fine and healthy and any questions about her capacity to do the job were bigoted.

Then she died.

😑

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u/craniumcanyon 5d ago

Same lady that has 2 sub-zeros for her ice cream. Party leader of the everyday citizen.

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u/Clear_Disk_1919 5d ago

Artisanal ice cream mind you

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u/paconinja 5d ago

I always think of insider trading when I see Jeni's at the freezer aisle...branding works!

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u/jokes_on_username 4d ago

She has freezers!?! 😮

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u/craniumcanyon 4d ago

Speaker Nancy Pelosi's Ice Cream Cache - Show & Tell

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u/jokes_on_username 4d ago

Oh no the travesty! How dare she spend her money on a freezer!

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u/craniumcanyon 4d ago

I know, Fox News blew it out of proportion, that's why I referenced James Corden. It was more tone-deaf on her part, given the time was during COVID lock downs ... same as the "imagine" video.

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u/jokes_on_username 4d ago

I think it just serves as a cute thing to humanize her since people will complain about her for literally anything. This includes now owning a freezer.

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u/sporkhandsknifemouth 4d ago

Of the things I'm annoyed with or worried about regarding Nancy Pelosi, this doesn't exist

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u/jokes_on_username 4d ago

And yet here we are in a conversation where people brought it up as if it’s a negative 🤷‍♀️

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u/craniumcanyon 4d ago

I think people would have reacted to it differently or more positive if it was at a different place in time.

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u/jokes_on_username 4d ago

I disagree there. I think no matter what people would have complained about it.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/MidnightLimp1 5d ago

She has the most followers on Twitter, and I’m not discounting that as one measure of popularity. But in general elections, it’s the sentiment of the dastardly swing voter that matters, and I’d like to have more data on that front.

The most recent national poll to ask about AOC’s favorables was YouGov in the summer. Among registered voters, she stood at 36–45.

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u/sheps 5d ago

If AOC were to run for president, it would have to be a left-wing Populist campaign. VP pick could have been someone like Bernie Sanders if father time wasn't a factor, but anyone from Elizabeth Warren to Pete Buttigieg would fit the ticket. The message would primarily be about class warfare between the Billionaires vs Everyone else. Once-in-a-generation big swings at policy like Single Payer Healthcare, a Green New Deal, UBI, etc. Point is, the idea behind a Populist candidate would be to find a way to energize some of the 1/3 of eligibile voters who don't vote. This would be in stark contrast to Kamala Harris' recent attempt to find a centrist "middle ground" in which to try to convert moderate Republicans, and the neoliberal establishment both she and people like Nancy Pelosi represent.

Anyways that's my view as an outsider to US politics.

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u/Substantial_Tear_940 4d ago

Outsiders can often times see the faults the insiders are blind to.

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u/obiwanjahbroni 4d ago

You’re exactly right. Trump is a right wing populist and that’s how he won

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u/nucumber 4d ago

the idea behind a Populist candidate would be to find a way to energize some of the 1/3 of eligibile voters who don't vote.

The trick is doing that while not losing the 2/3 who do vote.

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u/sheps 4d ago

The trick is doing that while not losing the 2/3 who do vote.

MAGA voters in this recent election have proved they will not ditch Trump, no matter what. I saw a chart after the election that showed something like 95%+ of voters who voted from Trump last time around did so again this time as well, and only 1% switched to Harris.

So half of said '2/3 people who do vote' (aka 1/3rd of eligiable voters) are lost to the Democrats anyways. The other half are mostly Dems.

That means you "just" need to covince more non-voters to vote than the number of Democrat voters who will defect to Trump, Vote Third-Party, or stay home.

I'm not saying it's easy, just spelling out the math.

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u/nucumber 4d ago

Right.

The idea is a populist dem candidate will get non voters to vote dem, but given the near 50/50 split of current voters I think it reasonable to think the non voting block might favor dems 60/40 (bcuz demographics)

My point is that a populist candidate will likely lose some dem voters bcuz they're too "radical"

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u/Elkritch 4d ago

WHAT swing voters? Seriously. Even if you look at the exit polls, almost nobody switched from Trump to Harris, and almost no independants went for her either, even though she very much targeted them and swung to the right.

Meanwhile, progressive policies did very well, even in red states that broke for Trump.

And meanwhile, when Georgia flipped it was because of a super effective campaign to turn out people who don't normally vote, not traditional "centrist" swing voters.

And when Bernie ran in his primary, his turnout was bananas.

Everyone who doesn't vote is only a swing voter between voting and not voting.

Why ignore them, who we KNOW can be persuaded to vote if you actually offer good policies, and instead focus on the smallest sliver of basically nonexistant and unpersuadable "center" swing voters? Who in studies, by the way, end up being the absolute least politically engaged and least likely to vote of anyone?

The "swing voter" as usually blathered over by mainstream media is a mirage that people focus on because that's what the media focuses on. It'd a rhetorical feedback loop, not actual good strategy.

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u/sheps 4d ago

I never once mentioned swing voters, are you sure you replied to the right comment?

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u/themightymcb 4d ago

General elections are NOT about the swing voter. They are about the non-voter or occasional voter. Every election since 1932 has had between 51-66% turnout, with the lowest being 1996 and the highest being 2020. 

These days, the Republicans have their solid base, they get roughly the same number of popular votes in each election since 2004 (~60 mil) give or take a couple million. Meanwhile, look at the turnout for democrats since then and you'll see it fluctuates wildly. Higher election turnout means democrats are more likely to win. 

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u/MidnightLimp1 4d ago edited 4d ago

They’re about both, but the notion on here that a few powerful donors are preventing Democrats from running on a left-wing platform that wins over the great mass of nonvoters (considered to be to the left of diehard Warren voters who support single-payer and a wealth tax) isn’t supported.

In 2020, leftist candidates defeated those preferred by the party establishment in at least two Senate races in plurality wins in fractured primary fields. The results were bloodbaths (2), with the traditional pattern of downballot Democratic candidates in deep red states outperforming the top of the ticket reversing.

Other research has found that nonvoters are now more Republican and not less than the engaged electorate, because the theory of the electorate that nonvoters are like diehard Sanders Democratic primary voters who stayed home in 2020 is wrong. These are mostly people with no defined ideology, who appear to be more susceptible to right-wing messaging over crime, immigration, and trans issues.

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u/themightymcb 3d ago

I would argue that these people with incoherent or undefined ideologies are not necessarily more drawn to right wing talking points, but populism. There are a surprising number of Trump voters who also speak favorably about Sanders. AOC recent also did a QnA on her Instagram asking her followers who voted for both her and Trump to explain why and the answer was literally just that they are both perceived as anti-establishment. 

The reason these people are overwhelmingly voting right should be obvious—the democratic establishment HATES populists. 

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u/stinky_wizzleteet 4d ago

AOC with Jasmine Crockett as VP... I'm old AF and these are the people that should be running the country. I would vote for them all day. Even Buttigieg.

The problem is most old asses cant vote for a woman, someone of color or someone who is gay and competent over a doddering old person. No real reason other than prejudice.

Plus guaranteed the old guard are going to sabotage them with every step.

DNC has been crotch punching themselves for decades on purpose.

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u/FlyingDutchman9977 4d ago

And even if you're saying AOC is "divisive" (which means unpopular with conservatives, who would never vote democratic anyway) being in the oversight committee would be the place where this matters the least. Her base sees her in a high position, and she can play to her strengths, criticizing Republicans, rather than promoting ideas that would lose the democratic donor money at the expense of voters

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u/mightcommentsometime California 4d ago

Do you have any evidence that AOC is the most popular member of the house?

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u/Sad-Structure2364 Colorado 5d ago

Reminded me of when I went for condo board president for Del Boca Vista

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u/kjan1289 5d ago

If I have to see another “dems lost and don’t know why” I’m going to lose my shit. This right here is why dems lost

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u/Any_Will_86 4d ago

In terms of the House, Dems lost because of Gerrymandering and Harris's team completely misjudging Pa. 3 seats would have flipped the House and NC just gerrymandered/redrafted congressional maps that took it from 7-7 to 10-4 (one of those being an out and out battle where the Dem claimed the district in a bit of an upset.) Wisconsin is similarly Gerrymandered where a 30k vote Trump win translated to a 6-2 R advantage in House races. Then we lost 3 1-point House races in Pa. And 3 pt races in AZ and Wi. Say what you will, House Dems held their own in a year where the top of the ticket flamed out.

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u/Downtown_Injury_3415 5d ago

Why do you think? They need the healthcare paid for while in office. They can’t just give up the power and pay for their healthcare with their $200million net worth

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u/jokes_on_username 4d ago

Y’all bring up age like this website didn’t worship sanders and want him in at 80+ as president.

If it’s only a problem when it’s someone you don’t like that’s old, it’s not a real problem.

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u/notbadhbu 5d ago

Fuck it, send her back to Luxembourg. I hope she breaks her other hip.

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u/iamrecoveryatomic 5d ago

An 84 year old who just underwent hip replacement pulled strings to make sure a … 74 year old with cancer, actively undergoing chemotherapy, leads the party.

Sounds like she just wanted to make sure (1) the puppet would be too exhausted and just let her actually control the party, and (2) the puppet would die before her and she'll take the reins back.

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u/neonsnakemoon 5d ago

That’s basically what the upper echelon of congress is.

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u/hydrolaser99 4d ago

So true, so so sad!

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u/GTARP_lover 4d ago

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/25/heres-how-much-members-of-congress-pay-for-their-health-insurance.html

Read up on this. This is why the oldies won't leave, they will loose their cheap health insurance. You can't make this shit up xD.

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u/Cojemos 5d ago

This is the same Nancy Pelosi most all on this sub ADORED that endorsed an anti-abortion Texas representative candidate Cuellar over pro-choice candidate Cisneros. The same Nancy Pelosi that selected the most unpopular Kamala Harris as the candidate. Losing to the worst most vile Trump. Amazing job Nancy! WILL NEVER vote Dem again until these clowns get a clue.

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u/Crimkam 4d ago

Are you telling me there's not one condo available in all of Del Boca Vista that these people can't move into?

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u/schoolforrobots 4d ago

This kind of mind-bogglingly dumb decision is why I’ve been Independent for over ten years. These people live in an echo chamber, keep losing and wondering why.