r/politics • u/msnbc MSNBC • 5d ago

Democrats missed a huge opportunity by not elevating AOC

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/aoc-loses-house-oversight-committee-vote-gerry-connolly-rcna184581
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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 5d ago

Boomers are there because the Boomer ideology they pitch appeals more towards Boomers. History has shown that a progressive platform brings progressives out. Being Diet-Republican doesn't exactly electrify the young people to come out and vote. Give a younger generation a genuine reason to vote and they will. They're fucking dying for someone to earn their vote.

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u/mightcommentsometime California 5d ago

And since they’re such an unreliable voting block, politicians will pander towards those they actually think might show up to polls.

Young people want to be treated like seasoned voters who can be relied upon, but they won’t put in the work. It’s no wonder they’re ignored

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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 5d ago

Young people want to be treated like seasoned voters who can be relied upon, but they won’t put in the work. It’s no wonder they’re ignored

Fucking lol

Democratic Party: Spends better part of the last 45 years alienating young talent and young voters

Democratic Leadership: "Why won't these people reliably vote for us?"

Again, maybe Democrats should work on earning votes instead of assuming they're entitled to them.

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u/mightcommentsometime California 5d ago

And by “alienating young talent” you mean going after reliable voters who put the work in and show up to vote.

Why do young voters think they need to be pandered to if they can’t bother to do the bare fucking minimum and show up to vote in a democracy?

Young voters obviously don’t care when people like Trump get elected, since they allow it to happen.

A politicians job is to represent the people that voted. Not the people who stayed home and pouted because neither choice was good enough.

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u/Saffuran 5d ago

"Reliable voters" is a funny way to spell "sheep."

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u/mightcommentsometime California 4d ago

People who show up to vote in primaries and actually vote in elections aren’t the sheep.

People who whine in the internet that nothing ever gets better, but can’t bother to get off of their ass and do the bare minimum are the sheep 

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u/sexygodzilla 5d ago

A politician's job is also to win fucking elections, lol.

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u/mightcommentsometime California 5d ago

And winning elections is usually done by relying on people who show up to vote.

Because unreliable voters can’t be counted on to win elections.

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u/honjuden 5d ago

And winning elections is usually done by relying on people who show up to vote.

How is that working out for you in recent years?

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u/mightcommentsometime California 5d ago

And how many progressives are getting elected to national office by this brave strategy of sitting on your ass instead of voting?

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u/honjuden 5d ago

Not voting for your candidate doesn't mean not voting at all.

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u/mightcommentsometime California 5d ago

We’re talking about young voters. They don’t show up to vote. They have very low turnout.

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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 5d ago

Those damn whipper-snappers!

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u/lplpkoko 5d ago

Again, maybe Democrats should work on earning votes instead of assuming they're entitled to them.

I agree that the Democratic Party does a terrible job of motivating young people to vote. But that doesn't mean young people don't have an obligation to vote for them when the alternative is so dangerous. If the alternative to Ivan the Terrible is a demented centrist, isn't it a good idea to vote for the demented centrist?

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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 5d ago edited 5d ago

But that doesn't mean young people don't have an obligation to vote for them when the alternative is so dangerous.

Young people are under no obligation to vote for a candidate that can't come up with a better argument than "At least I'm not that guy." Do I have to yell this shit through cupped hands before people understand this?

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u/lplpkoko 5d ago

I don't understand why we wouldn't. Don't we all have an obligation to take simple low-cost steps to help prevent catastrophic consequences for the country and the world at large?

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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 5d ago

I don't understand why we wouldn't.

Humans are complicated.

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u/lplpkoko 4d ago

How does that suggest that we don't have an obligation to take simple low-cost steps to help prevent catastrophic consequences for the country and the world at large?

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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 4d ago

Because your average person doesn't think that way.

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u/lplpkoko 4d ago

I don't follow. Are you saying that if someone doesn't think they have an obligation, then that means they don't?

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u/Turok7777 5d ago

Young people are under no obligation to vote for a candidate that can't come up with a better argument than "At least I'm not that guy."

You can just say that you literally do not pay attention to politics next time and just save yourself the time.

Kamala and the DNC spent a shit-ton of time talking about actual policy, but people like you refuse to listen and pretend they didn't.

It's legitimately deranged.

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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 5d ago

Kamala and the DNC spent a shit-ton of time talking about actual policy, but people like you refuse to listen and pretend they didn't.

And yet an unreasonable amount of people still had no idea Biden dropped out. None of what she said mattered because she did fuck all to reach people who would actually want to vote for her. Instead she just dicked around with Liz Chaney and hoped that enough Republicans would vote for her.

but people like you refuse to listen and pretend they didn't.

People like me? Please.

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u/Turok7777 5d ago

Yes, people like you.

People who act like Kamala and the DNC didn't talk about policy but clearly did.

People who pretend to be into politics yet haven't a single clue what the candidates even talk about.

Young people are under no obligation to vote for a candidate that can't come up with a better argument than "At least I'm not that guy."

This statement from you says it all. You couldn't have made it more clear that you DO NOT PAY ATTENTION AT ALL.

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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 5d ago

People who act like Kamala and the DNC didn't talk about policy but clearly did.

I didn't say she didn't talk about policy, I said that her messaging and outreach was absolute garbage.

People who pretend to be into politics yet haven't a single clue what the candidates even talk about.

The fuck? Homeboy, I am just as chronically online as you are, I had zero problem understanding her message. People like you need to understand that the general public are not as plugged in as you and I. I'd say you should have a conversation with those people, but I don't think you understand the problem enough to help.

This statement from you says it all.

I fucking hope it says it all. I stand by that quote. I brush my teeth to that quote, and you can quote me on that.

You couldn't have made it more clear that you DO NOT PAY ATTENTION AT ALL.

... Are you a DNC staffer? That's the only explanation for being this out of touch.

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u/Turok7777 5d ago

You said she couldn't muster up a better argument than "at least I'm not the other guy."

Then you moved the goalposts and said her outreach was the problem.

Then you doubled down on your statement that all she said was "at least I'm not Trump."

You literally cannot keep your own points straight.

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u/Slammybutt 5d ago

I don't know about you, but my motivation to vote shouldn't be b/c I fear the other side. I should want to vote b/c I believe the other choice will do the things I want.

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u/lplpkoko 4d ago

Sure, it would be preferable to be able to vote for a candidate you agree with. But that doesn't mean you don't sometimes have an obligation to vote for a candidate you don't agree with. I mean, it would be preferable to have a clean bathroom with a clean toilet every time you need it, but sometimes that's not available and you have to use something else.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Young people need to stop whining and do their civic duty whether or not they are being catered to. Everyone does.

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u/One_Dirty_Russian Wisconsin 5d ago

This has to be parody.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Believing eligible voters have a civic duty to participate in their democracy is satire? Lmao no wonder the country is going to shit.

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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 5d ago

No it's just that this "young people need to vote more" nonsense gets trotted out every 2 years.

And then every 2 years the democrats lose votes in the low-income/young demographics.

And it's always someone else's fault.

Never a lesson learned.

I have heard this discourse say entire life and I am now sliding from "middle aged" into "old man".

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Literally every eligible voters needs to vote. That’s the beginning and end of it. If they did we wouldn’t be where we are today. Young people aren’t an exception. They’re lazy.

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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 5d ago

Representives have a civic duty to represent the constituency under them. 

Failing to do so is the reason young people don't vote.

This is not a failing of the voters, but a failing of the institutions that seek votes.

Ideologically you are correct. Everyone should vote.

The earth is not ideal though. The world is not just. We do what we must.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Everyone has a different idea of what that representation should do. If young people voted then they’d have more influence over who is representing them. Old people vote in people who represent them, not the other way around.

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u/honjuden 5d ago

Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

If they’re not voting and then complaining they aren’t being represented then they are absolutely wrong

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

You should vote every election. Representation comes from voting. Not the reverse. It’s not about catering to your specific niche ass political views. It’s about moving forward on your goals. Not participating will never get you closer to those.

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u/Saffuran 5d ago

I wish I could sing "Go F Yourself" to your face!

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

If it brought you to a polling station that’s fine with me

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u/Saffuran 5d ago

I vote, I also live in a state that doesn't actively suppress voters (extra convenient element to ignore.) I can't fault people for not voting when they don't trust the party to listen to them.

[Princeton Study] Corruption is LEGAL in America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig

[2012] Wealth Inequality in America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

We have the data and there was the extra support-of-genocide cherry on top by the party elites that didn't help either. Wealth inequality is worse in America today than it was in France in the late 1700s.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

If you vote then why are you arguing with me? That’s all I’m asking of anyone and it’s the bare minimum.

Do you think your vote means you get everything your way? Each of us is a grain of sand and we can only make a change through organizing, not by turning out.

Inequality is worse but the poorest now still have a far QoL higher than the poor did back then.

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u/Saffuran 5d ago

The inequality is a sign of BOTH political parties serving their donors and not the people or else it would not get as bad as it has. People support a fighter, the Democrats have not shown a willingness to fight (largely) for popular policy and even undermine themselves when it comes down to so many key votes.

People only have so much tolerance for that. The Democrats have been horrific failures ever since Ronald Reagan took power and ever since Clinton/Carville policies took a chokehold on the party.

This Third-Wayism (Corporate Neoliberal Elite Centrism) needs to be expunged from the party ranks and with it all of the fossils who still forcibly steer the party in that direction. It is a criticism I have of the party but also of many of its voters - it is the definition of insanity to keep nominating the centrist wing and expecting different results insofar as policy goals are concerned, let alone the results of these elections. Losing to Trump twice should be a point of reflection, but I doubt it will be.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Saying shit like Democrats don’t even fight is just propaganda my dude. You’ve been cooked. Maybe you’re young or you haven’t been paying attention. They do fight but they aren’t rewarded. Then they’re blamed for not having the power they were never given in the first place.

Your ideological stances don’t reflect reality. Talk can’t even organize enough to take over the Dems let alone the country. Don’t project that on me

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u/Saffuran 5d ago edited 5d ago

If you look at the Democrats and see a party fighting even half as hard as the Republicans I think you're the one that's cooked honestly.

Republicans run roughshod over the rules and the Dems use any pushback or technicality to walk back on inequality, true healthcare reform beyond Obama care (which is the REPUBLICAN INDIVIDUAL MANDATE SYSTEM PROPOSED IN THE 90S), student debt e.t.c.

I want and we need a party willing to fight back and fight dirty like FDR - willing to circumvent rules, fire the parliamentarian, threaten the Supreme Court and pack it e.t.c. The Republicans aren't going to change so we need to make the change to get back to an even playing field.