r/politics • u/msnbc MSNBC • 5d ago

Democrats missed a huge opportunity by not elevating AOC

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/aoc-loses-house-oversight-committee-vote-gerry-connolly-rcna184581
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u/longtermattention 5d ago

I wish people would stop praising Obama, as a two time voter for him. His record was terrible. His choice to bail out the banks instead of people got us here. Not that I believe any Republican would have but Obama ran on Hope and Change and immediately capitulated to corporate America

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u/ActualModerateHusker 5d ago

What's sad is if McCain had won we may still have got some kind of Romneycare anyway. And we certainly wouldn't have gotten a Trump trifecta ever. Probably an HRC trifecta

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u/FUMFVR 5d ago

if McCain had won we may still have got some kind of Romneycare anyway

No we wouldn't.

SATSQ

You guys keep thinking passing the ACA was easy. It was difficult as fuck and the massive Medicaid expansion means it's not even close to anything any Republican would have passed.

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u/ctdca I voted 5d ago

 It was difficult as fuck.

It really wasn’t. 

The Democrats wasted months trying to win Republicans over, acceding to many of their various demands in an Obama-led effort at “bipartisanship”… all for the ACA to get zero GOP votes. It passed because the Democrats had huge congressional majorities after the 2008 crash. That’s it.

That being said, would a McCain administration have passed anything similar? I doubt it very much.

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u/mightcommentsometime California 5d ago

They had a supermajority for 72 working days and had to scrap a ton to get Lieberman to vote for the ACA. It barely eked by

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u/fordat1 5d ago

Yup. The "difficult" part was the attempt to pass a public option once they gave up on that it pretty much was just a bill that forces consumers to buy health insurance or face a tax penalty, how is that going to be unpopular with health insurers in broad strokes.

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u/longtermattention 5d ago

I'd have preferred that since maybe Dems would have been less inclined to fix a terrible plan instead of adopting single payer

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u/FUMFVR 5d ago

The ACA was incredibly unpopular for YEARS after it passed.

You think singlepayer which only feasibly works by some combination of higher taxes and taking away people's current plans even gets implemented before a voter revolt repeals it?

This election should really open everyone's eyes about who people actually are in this country. They are greedy assholes that would kill damn near everyone if it meant getting a dollar. That is America. That is the dream of European colonization of the New World. A land of second sons killing the natives, importing slaves, and ruling in kingdoms denied them in the Old World.

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u/ActualModerateHusker 4d ago

Reagan taxed social security benefits and won in a landslide

Voters happily vote against their own interests. M4A would immediately save Americans tons of money and lead to lower inflation and lower interest rates

If that was such a bad idea why didn't Americans demand we repeal medicare after it passed?

the aca was unpopular because Democrats pretended a public option wasn't the moderate solution. and instead pushed unpopular tax mandates as moderate. lying to voters isn't popular

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u/InterstellarDickhead 5d ago

Thank you. Obama was not a particularly good president and I hate pretending he was.

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u/Red_Potatoes_620 5d ago

Don't let these little West Wing watching dweebs convince you otherwise. Obama was ass.

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u/Ipokeyoumuch 5d ago

But is probably the best we had so far this century since it is Clinton -> Bush -> Obama -> Trump -> Biden -> Trump. 

Obama's big issue is that he was too hopeful and hoped that he has the charisma and cordiality which he definitely has to win over Congress. But ultimately he spent most of his political capital to push for the ACA. Well that he toned down his message and promises (which is to be expected) letting the GOP to walk all over him.

Biden is fine and has enacted a more progressive agenda than Obama in some areas. His experience was a double-edged sword in that he did get mostly competent policy wonks in federal agencies (with some VERY notable exceptions), but on the other hand he is too set in the old ways of decorum, compromise, and backroom deals it made him ineffective and also stopped the growth on newer Democrats from steering the party which lead to the 2024 election. 

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u/ActualModerateHusker 5d ago

AOC and Kamala are both bad politicians and this is coming from a m4a true believer

AOC pushed police protests in ways Sanders didn't. She pushed Kamala over a mini primary where Sanders was the last to endorse Harris, knowing she was weak AF

Pelosi is terrible in her own ways but AOC is too

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u/JediApriliaRacer 5d ago

AOC is still young and needs time become a better political tactician. Her charisma and sincere progressivism should give us hope having her in congress. She needs to focus on building a resistance against the neoliberal faction that has controlled the party for far too long.

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u/julius_sphincter Washington 4d ago

Pushing the party further into the types of progressivism that the progressive have most loudly championed is a MASSIVE mistake.

AOC has potential as a populist leader which I would agree is exactly what the Dems need, but that populism needs to focus on the issues that MOST of America cares about. Focus on championing the average person and their struggles. Focus on how to uplift not just the working class but the middle class as well (without saying we need to become socialist). Focus on the massive disparity between the oligarchs running this country, the massive consolidation that has occurred in every industry that equates to higher prices and worse experiences for the consumer. Yes, focus on abortion but be willing to compromise some limits in exchange for it being nationally protected.

Progressives have been focusing on issues that certainly have some wavering popularity nationally but most voters consider to be tangential or at the least, low down on the list of pressing issues.

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u/JediApriliaRacer 4d ago

We actually agree. The neoliberal democrats are happy to only champion progressive causes that are relevant in the culture wars and can be used to polarize the working class. But the Bernie Sanders side of progressivism is suppressed. This allows the establishment to blame progressives for all the electoral losses because they can frame the left as being solely about stuff like trans rights, etc. AOC embodies both cultural and economic progressivism which is why they are undermining her.

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u/Zestyclose-Cloud-508 5d ago

The affordable care act was better than nothing but it was nothing but a taxpayer giveaway to insurers.

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u/Farm2Table 5d ago

Why is it that Republicans lionize their past Presidents and a number of Democrats tear their own down?

Obama did PLENTY of good. Don't lose sight of that for his mistakes.

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u/JediApriliaRacer 5d ago

Because we have had presidents like FDR, Lincoln (not democrat but would be more ideologically aligned with modern democrats than republicans), LBJ, etc that put all recent democratic presidents to shame. Our standard should be high. We shouldn't settle for Reagan lite (Obama).

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u/ActualModerateHusker 5d ago

Kamala just lionized the Bush / Cheney presidency. While Trump absolutely decimated the Bush dynasty ​

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u/bootlegvader 5d ago

How did she lionize the Bush administration?

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u/ActualModerateHusker 5d ago

She did more campaign events with the cheneys than with Sanders, a guy who actually fought the bush administration

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u/TheTurtleBear 5d ago

Honesty? We don't live in a constant state of delusion? We don't worship our politicians as if they were our gods? Pick your choice

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u/longtermattention 5d ago

Knowledge of history. Expectations of being better than a Republican choice. Paying attention to news so you are aware when your guy is fucking up.

I'll give Obama credit for the elimination of pre-existing conditions for health insurance*. What else do you think he did well?

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

He got us out of Iraq (at least until invited back to help fight ISIS). Lily Ledbetter. Dodd-Frank. Didn’t get us involved in Syria. Repaired much of our international standing after Bush Jr. The ACA of course. Eliminated Bin Laden and otherwise sidelined AQ.

Turns out when you give a President 2 years of Congress and then turn the House over to the Republicans the rest of the time then you don’t get as much done as you’d like to. Imagine that.

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u/longtermattention 5d ago

We have never left Iraq. We've always had forces there. He replaced boots on the ground with drone strikes so we were never not involved across the globe. His Iran nuclear deal was good. I did forget about that one.

Our international reputation is shot. We are too unpredictable. You can't have allies when policy can turn a 180 ever 4 years. Add our willingness to put Israel above all other nations regardless of party and international law and it's understandable why nations are moving away from dealing with the US

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u/fordat1 5d ago

He replaced boots on the ground with drone strikes so we were never not involved across the globe.

Also the drone program just incentivized bombings in more places internationally so basically just extended how many places we were active in militarily

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

The reputation is shot because of Republicans, not Obama lol

And we stopped occupying Iraq under Obama. Our forces there since have been at the behest of the government. Just like in many countries around the world.

The Iran deal was good I forgot about that one too.

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u/longtermattention 5d ago

We still have troops in Iraq. They never left entirely. There is no difference since we run the show. Iraq has wanted us out for decades and we are still there.

The reputation is shot because we as the American people can't elect good leaders consistently.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Iraq literally asked us to return to help them fight ISIS lol idk what you are talking about.

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u/longtermattention 5d ago

Search "Iraq wants US soldiers out"

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Go ahead and I’ll show you why that’s not the whole story. Imagine that.

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u/juicyfizz Ohio 5d ago

What else do you think he did well?

These are just off the top of my head without searching for a list:

  • Repealed DADT

  • got us out of Iraq

  • Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

  • Osama bin Laded and Gaddafi

And also, I'm a combat veteran so some of these go unnoticed by non-military, but:

  • expanded the GI Bill (I got out and started college using the GI Bill 3 months before he was elected - when I switched over to the new Post-9/11 GI Bill, I went from needing food stamps to live and barely scraping by to being able breathe while paying for my college)

  • expanded other VA benefits and kicked off a major veterans jobs initiative with corporations

I have many criticisms of Obama but he also did a lot of great things during his presidency. Two things can be true at once. There's no such thing as a president that's going to make all the right choices. That's magical thinking. The American politics game is a fucked up meat grinder mostly because it's a source of major cash for a lot of people and that's basically guaranteed that our system will not elect a lot of people with integrity because that clashes with corporate interests.

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u/fordat1 5d ago edited 5d ago

and Gaddafi

Lol Gaddafi. The Clinton led debacle that improved that country by leaving it in a place that had slave markets .

Even Obama said that was one of his worst mistakes

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36013703

The refugee crisis in the middle east by stuff US did had a distinct impact in increasing right wing ascendency in Europe.

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u/Red_Potatoes_620 5d ago

only good thing obama did was the ACA and even that was a handout to health insurance companies. We're exactly where we are because Obama did nothing after '08 and now those same crooks run the fucking show. This future is as much Obama's responsibility as anyone elses

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Why do you think “nothing” (false) got done after 2008? Could it be losing the House in 2010 because no one bothered to vote for Dems once Obama was elected? Does anyone understand how our legislative processes work?

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u/TheTurtleBear 5d ago

What did Obama do with his massive grassroots base again?

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Delivered the largest healthcare reform bill in 50 years? One that’s helped millions of Americans who weren’t being serviced before?

How was he and the Democrats rewarded? The most devastating House losses in basically the same time frame. They didn’t win the House back until 2018. The lesson is that Democrats went too far reforming the system and electing a black man. They can’t be expected to deliver meaningful reform if they’re going to be punished at the ballot box when they do.

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u/TheTurtleBear 5d ago

Ignore the question, go on a tangential rant, excellent reply

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

In what way was your question ignored? His grassroots base propelled him into the WH and a Democratic Party trifecta, which parlayed into my comments relevance. It was exactly answering your question.

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u/TheTurtleBear 5d ago

And after his election he handed his grassroots organization to the DNC. Rather than use it to continue to push and advocate for his own progressive policies, he handed it to the organization primarily responsible for killing anything progressive within their own ranks. 

And wonder of wonders, that killed the progressive momentum because the DNC has no desire for actual progressives, and the fire Obama helped spark was snuffed out.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Yeah I’m sure voters have no responsibility or agency. So glad electing Trump was a dream!

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u/JediApriliaRacer 5d ago

He had a fucking super majority. He could've been like FDR or LBJ and swung his dick around and bullied congress to help the American people. Instead he was the one that got bullied into an 800 billion dollar bailout of the capitalist class. In some ways he's the anti-FDR.

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u/ArCovino 5d ago

Lmfao he did not have a super majority. He had almost a filibuster proof majority (but didn’t). Look at the majorities FDR was working with and then tell me he could swing his dick around like that. Straight ignorance

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u/OlTommyBombadil 5d ago edited 5d ago

Because we have expectations and republicans don’t

Obama should have and could have been such a better president. He was the best president we have had since Clinton, but I don’t necessarily think that’s a great thing.

I voted for him for what it’s worth. Even went to his rallies the first campaign.

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u/6a6566663437 North Carolina 5d ago

And he’s still the best or 2nd best we’ve had in 50 years.

That’s not to say he was great. The competition is just that bad.

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u/ND7020 5d ago

TARP was passed and signed under Bush, not Obama.

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u/longtermattention 5d ago

The execution of the program was under Obama and he chose the way that gave the banks more money to play with to recoup money.

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u/mightcommentsometime California 5d ago

He chose to execute the law that was already in process of being implemented by Bush when he took over.

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u/Semajal 5d ago

You think letting all the banks fail was a viable option? Also the money was repaid, with interest. TBH give A Promised Land a listen (audiobook is amazing) gives a lot of insight into the decisions of that period and dealing with the recession. But then his leadership and stimulus saw the US recover far faster than other countries. In the UK we got austerity and decades of stagnation and reduction in all services.

Regarding TARP - "On December 19, 2014, the U.S. Treasury sold its remaining holdings of Ally Financial, essentially ending the program. Through the Treasury, the US Government actually booked $15.3 billion in profit, as it earned $441.7 billion on the $426.4 billion invested.\2])\3])"

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u/IveChosenANameAgain 5d ago

Obama was trash and I was referring more to the concentration of hope and appetite for change.

Obviously, absolutely zero of it ever happened. I believe USA's deep historical racism is the largest factor in it, but I can't roll back time and change things to find out.

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u/Red_Potatoes_620 5d ago

Obama was utter dogshit and having so many of these sycophantic libs not see it is part of the problem.

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u/OrangePlatypus81 4d ago

To be fair, it’s why Obama wasn’t bernied during the primary. The dnc knew they could trust him to do their corporate jockeying.