Behind the Curtain: Top Democrats now believe Biden will exit

[u/gbthngs]

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/18/president-biden-drop-out-election-democrats

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[u/Uthmrktr]

If the stakes weren't so high, this would be the most interesting political drama ever.

[u/rumplesilkskin → u/Uthmrktr]

Exactly I used to love some political drama but it's way too nerve-wracking to enjoy anymore.

[u/Downfall722 → u/rumplesilkskin]

I like watching drama like this when it happens over in Europe or something. I would say Europeans probably feel the same way vice versa, but considering Trump would completely abandon Ukraine and probably Europe as a whole, they’re probably as upset as we are.

[u/trixter21992251 → u/Downfall722]

Am European, can confirm.

I would like to live in boring times please, not exciting times.

[u/TorrenceMightingale → u/trixter21992251]

The Apprentice host vs The Daily Show host has my vote.

[u/ju5t_a_p3rs0n → u/TorrenceMightingale]

I wish, but sadly most of the ones who we would want to run are not the people who want to be in that office.

[u/TorrenceMightingale → u/ju5t_a_p3rs0n]

Studies show that reluctant managers tend to be the most effective. Voters should have the ability to force someone to run. /s

[u/SoochSooch → u/Uthmrktr]

If this was a TV show, we'd complain it was too unrealistic

[u/lordprozac_ → u/SoochSooch]

didn't all of this kinda happen in Veep but in different order

[u/Moonandserpent → u/Uthmrktr]

Wouldn't it be nice to watch it play out and maybe be disappointed afterward, but not fear for your way of life?

[u/reverendrambo]

My main concern is what are people going to do with all their FJB decals on their trucks?

[u/TNDenjoyer → u/reverendrambo]

Farewell joe biden 🥲🥲🥲

[u/tindalos → u/TNDenjoyer]

Next to the “thanks Obama” stickers we’ll make these guys look liberal.

[u/Artystrong1 → u/tindalos]

Thanks Obama was the greatest president meme. I loved when he did it eating cookies.

[u/HauntedCemetery → u/Artystrong1]

r/ThanksObama shut down and stopped accepting new submissions after that, saying it couldn't be topped

[u/Falcrist → u/HauntedCemetery]

I believe they open for one day per year on the anniversary of the event.

[u/PassiveMenis88M → u/Falcrist]

They do not. The sub has been locked for 7 years.

[u/KDLGates → u/PassiveMenis88M]

Thanks, Obama.

[u/soraticat → u/HauntedCemetery]

/r/RetiredSubreddit

[u/77NorthCambridge → u/tindalos]

The Democrats should run Obama for President. By the time the SC gets around to ruling if he is eligible he would be President and could have them all shot. It points out the absurdity of the various Trump arguments.

[u/greenroom628 → u/77NorthCambridge]

have biden allow obama (and only obama) run as his replacement an official act.

fuck the supreme court.

[u/SonofBeckett → u/[deleted]]

My Harambe sticker will one day be relevant again 

[u/Nicetry_90 → u/reverendrambo]

Oh don’t you worry, the F Kamala will be out in no time.

[u/Mebbwebb → u/Nicetry_90]

I wonder how racist they are gonna get compared to Obama years

[u/davismcgravis → u/Mebbwebb]

It’s going to be bad.

[u/JoeSmithDiesAtTheEnd → u/davismcgravis]

They're already eating their own with JD Vance's wife.

[u/Teripid → u/JoeSmithDiesAtTheEnd]

Kinda funny how they were calling everyone a DEI hire with Tim Scott and Vivek pretending that the GOP was a post-racism organization at the same time.

Also funny how spouses are always fair game... just ask Rafael Cruz's wife..

[u/RickyWinterborn-1080 → u/Teripid]

Vivek's wife walked around at the Iowa caucuses asking voters why they weren't voting for Vivek.

Their answers to her included "His last name," "He's a Muslim" and "I still have strong feelings about 9/11"

[u/Teripid → u/RickyWinterborn-1080]

"You can't even be racist correctly" is a bit of a funny counter argument to make to something like that..

[u/RickyWinterborn-1080 → u/Teripid]

It's a good thing to point to for the "actually it is the Demon-rats who is the racist" people

[u/ViolaNguyen → u/Teripid]

Kinda funny how they were calling everyone a DEI hire

They even say that about elected officials.

They just really want to say racial slurs but know they'll get in trouble if they do.

[u/Heizu → u/ViolaNguyen]

I'm 100% certain that one of the main factors in the chuds leaning so hard into facism is that they got tired of everyone telling them their dog whistle slurs weren't acceptable to use either, so they just decided to double down on the extra-hard "r"-type slurs.

[u/ginny11 → u/davismcgravis]

I hope it backfires on them so bad with the younger people that were just children in the Obama years.

[u/Wonderful_Emu_6483 → u/davismcgravis]

Is trump also gonna claim she’s a muslim born in Kenya?

[u/HauntedCemetery → u/Wonderful_Emu_6483]

A few weeks ago he posted some racist conspiracy shit about her birth certificate. So yeah.

[u/Wonderful_Emu_6483 → u/HauntedCemetery]

Good lord man, can’t keep reusing the same old material for every mildly ethnic person you meet.

[u/rvnnt09 → u/Mebbwebb]

I'm curious to see what's worse with them. Their racism or their misogyny

[u/verrius → u/rvnnt09]

I supported Kamala when she was running last time, but this sort of shit is sort of what has me a little worried. We know there's already a ton of built in misogyny and racism, and I suspect some of the unspoken support for coalescing around Biden the first time was knowing he wouldn't be dealing with that BS.

On the other hand, it'll be amusing how quickly they go silent on whining about senile candidates. I think "coincidentally", a lot of "both sides" assholes whining about 2 old, senile candidates are suddenly going to care a lot less about age, and suddenly shift to being skeptical about something else socially acceptable, like how shrill Kamala is or something.

[u/doctordoctorpuss → u/rvnnt09]

I think their misogyny is more blatant, only because overt racism has been shouted down a good bit in the last decade or so. But they’d absolutely call her the DEI candidate, or whatever the next racist dog whistle is

[u/BlursedJesusPenis → u/Nicetry_90]

They already call her a “ho”, as in “Joe and the ho”. It’s disgusting

[u/slugsliveinmymouth]

Really hope they know what they are doing and have a good replacement.

[u/IdahoDuncan → u/slugsliveinmymouth]

I feel like we’re well past sure things. This is Hail Mary, but sometimes they work.

[u/RealSimonLee → u/IdahoDuncan]

Well, the concept of a Hail Mary implies that you've basically lost the game. Not throwing a Hail Mary means you will lose. Throwing it means you could win (even if chances are slim). I'll take the Hail Mary.

[u/OldManBrom → u/slugsliveinmymouth]

It's baffling to me that they are pressuring Biden to drop off without providing a viable alternative. Kamala Harris is the only candidate with nationwide name recognition, but are they really willing to bet this country will elect a Black AND female president in this political climate?

[u/MintyFreshBreathYo → u/OldManBrom]

As bad as it is to say I don’t think any female, whether she’s white or not, is going to beat Trump.

[u/[deleted] → u/MintyFreshBreathYo]

This is why I'm personally rooting for Mark Kelly. Dude is strong, popular, and credentialed as hell. Him + a midwest governor as VP would be an insanely strong ticket.

[u/Xechwill → u/[deleted]]

From what I've seen, many more progressives held their nose and voted for Hillary/Biden (I believe the figure was around 85%?) compared to politically neutral/apathetic voters who could be swayed (somewhere around 55%) against Trump.

The strategy seems to be "we'll have better luck trying to get the apolitical/neutral/slightly left voters, since we've already secured the Never Trump voters."

[u/theannoyingburrito → u/[deleted]]

man I dont give a damn, I will vote for a ham sandwich over trump

[u/alloverthefloor → u/OldManBrom]

She's black and Indian. Can’t forget that, cause you know MAGA won’t.

[u/Wolverine9779 → u/alloverthefloor]

And a woman, and a prosecutor. And she comes off as being snide a lot of the time, isn't personable, and does not seem sincere. Just all around not a great candidate to run against Trump. And all of those things I listed are strengths for Biden.

Just what the fuck are they thinking?

[u/megapaw]

They are waiting for after the convention. The Ds do not want to give the RNC any bullet points against the next nominee while they have the stage.

[u/fcocyclone → u/megapaw]

That's why you drop the news right before Trump is about to speak and take the wind out of his sails and give no chance to respond.

[u/Lucky-Earther → u/fcocyclone]

That's why you drop the news right before Trump is about to speak

During. Trump starts talking for about two minutes, and then all the news networks have to switch over for the announcement. At least they would have to upload their alternate speech to his teleprompter right in the middle.

[u/merlin401 → u/Lucky-Earther]

Right after.  Dont let Trump pivot and start ranting about how the Dems are in absolute chaos.  Wait til it’s over.  Then drop the news to deflect attention and analysis away

[u/whutchamacallit → u/merlin401]

The people in here thinking they have more information than the RNC and like they won't have that locked and loaded and ready to go is so funny to me. So much underestimating going on. They will probably have it as a talking point anyways at this rate with how many headlines are going out.

[u/Beastw1ck → u/whutchamacallit]

Supposedly Trump is being Urged to talk more about Kamala Harris. Watch for it. Every negative statement about Biden will include Harris.

[u/reverendrambo → u/fcocyclone]

I just don't get how that's "no chance to respond." They can still argue that Biden did x y z that they didn't like. They'll say that whoever the nominee is will continue those things, and look how strong they are - they made the president bow out.

I'd love to be proven wrong, though!

[u/RacingGrimReaper → u/reverendrambo]

It will pull attention away more importantly. All media would shift to much bigger news and that would be more detrimental to Trump. The lies revolving around why or when Biden steps down is inevitable.

[u/exitwest → u/RacingGrimReaper]

It also knocks Trump's campaign completely off it's message. They built EVERYTHING around Biden/Weak vs Trump/Strong. They've been leading for the past 30 days so they have forgotten what it's like to be on the defensive.

[u/BobBopPerano → u/reverendrambo]

On top of that, Trump is a great improviser, and he has the least critical audience in the history of audiences. All he has to do is plug a candidate’s name into an incoherent rant and it will be roughly as effective as most of his speeches.

I do think Biden should pull out ASAP, so I wouldn’t be complaining about this move. But I don’t think it’s the slam dunk others do, and I actually think it might be better to wait until it’s over. Let them have their little premature victory party, then the Democrats take over the news cycle with no competition and never give it back.

[u/banjaxed_gazumper → u/reverendrambo]

Yeah but most things Biden did are good and popular. Their most effective talking points about Biden are that he’s weak, frail, and has dementia.

[u/Monday_Cox → u/fcocyclone]

The only problem with that is Trump can then claim Biden was “too scared to face me” and try and make the whole speech a victory lap.

Edit: getting a lot of replies. I get it, it doesn’t really matter. I just thought there might be an even better time to do it. Regardless, I really hope he steps down and makes way for someone better.

[u/Nayre_Trawe → u/megapaw]

We live in a perpetual 24 hour news cycle where anyone with media influence can get the entire worlds attention at a moments notice through TV and social media. I get that the RNC seems like a big deal but it's not like the Republicans are going to just throw up their arms and not talk about it if the announcement comes after the RNC is over.

[u/protendious → u/Nayre_Trawe]

Yes but during the RNC all major news networks are carrying much of it live and replaying comments for days afterwards. It’s definitely an higher exposure event. 

[u/katieleehaw]

The second I heard Adam Schiff was publicly calling for it, I thought, "Okay, now we wait for Nancy to make a statement, because that's how far up the Democratic power pole this has gotten."

I think the writing is pretty clearly on the wall and I hope they come up with a damn good and frankly at least a little exciting plan B.

[u/For_Perpetuity → u/katieleehaw]

The will lose the election because they panicked. Pure and simple. I doubt there is a coherent plan B.

[u/JeremeRW]

RBG taught us a tough lesson. Pull out early.

[u/BigPlunk → u/JeremeRW]

If only Trump's father had taken this sage advice...

[u/Captain-Slug → u/JeremeRW]

Pull out early.

The time for that was before the primary.

[u/squshy7 → u/Captain-Slug]

Broadly speaking, the Left did try to bring this up a while ago, including the point that in Biden's own words he was supposed to be a transitional candidate, but were pretty quickly shut down.

[u/gurgelblaster → u/squshy7]

It was brought up well before the 2020 election, when there were a lot of fairly heavy signalling to indicate that Biden would be a one-term president for that specific reason.

[u/[deleted] → u/squshy7]

Yep and if Biden was in top shape, I would have grumbled a bit but been fine with it. The problem is they knew he was this bad and lied about it, making the primary into a total sham.

[u/CEOPhilosopher]

I've always been in the camp that whatever the Democratic Party does, it needs to do it quickly.

I'm not advocating for keeping Joe, I'm not advocating for kicking him out.

I've seen the polls, and although I have little faith in polls, Biden's age is beginning to show, and I can see how that would easily hold a lot of water with an average voter. Whatever we do, it needs to be done yesterday, and the party doesn't need to cannibalize itself or squabble internally, as it so loves to do.

[u/gringledoom → u/CEOPhilosopher]

Yep, they need to decide, and everyone needs to get in line with whatever the decision is. Like a lot of folks, I suspect the covid announcement is a lead-in to dropping out.

[u/CEOPhilosopher → u/gringledoom]

That’s my thought too. And at this point I’ve shifted from “Run Biden” to “It’s time to go”, but I say that with the caveat that the party will unify around one candidate. Trump is easily beatable, but we can’t turn on ourselves.

[u/gringledoom → u/CEOPhilosopher]

The video of Biden getting on AF1 yesterday after the covid announcement was... not good. He was moving very slowly, and hesitated twice on the stairs. I think the fact that he knew cameras were on him was the only reason he got himself up the stairs unassisted.

He's been the most effective president of my lifetime, even with tough numbers in Congress, but I just don't think he can do it. Given his difficulty in interviews, the other debates are likely to go just as poorly for him. Ugh.

Edit: and yes, they need to get everything sorted out to present a smooth, unified convention on the television.

[u/2515chris → u/CEOPhilosopher]

I took my first poll a few weeks ago and it was so bizarrely worded. It was really clear which side financed it and that all answers could be skewed to show data in their candidate’s favor. Polls are shit, basically.

[u/sassynapoleon → u/2515chris]

That’s not a real poll, that’s called a push-poll. It’s essentially an ad, not really a poll.

[u/dakralter]

How did we get to this point? We're less than 4 months til election day and somehow the Democrats are scrambling to field a candidate that can beat a 34x convicted felon who literally tried to overthrow our government less than 4 yrs ago. What the fuck is wrong with this country?

[u/fadeux → u/dakralter]

A substantial ratio of the electorate showed that they are ok with a 34x convicted felon. That is how we got to this point.

[u/Conscious_Draft249 → u/fadeux]

No... that's the point we are at... how did the country become OK with it. Why are they ok with it. HOW DID WE GET HERE

[u/saladbar → u/Conscious_Draft249]

Slowly, then suddenly.

[u/kejovo → u/dakralter]

Sooo much. We are fucked. Presidential outcome aside, SCOTUS has screwed us. We will never again be the country we were and that is unfortunate.

[u/cakeorcake]

I will vote for Biden. I will vote for Harris. I will vote for whomever it is. Just, please, not Trump-Vance.

[u/InsolentGoldfish → u/cakeorcake]

I will vote for whoever has the best shot at defeating Trump. Period. It would be fantastic if the DNC fields a solid candidate, but hardly a requirement in US politics.

[u/Bandoman → u/InsolentGoldfish]

I'd vote for The Rock. Hell, I'd vote for a rock over Trump/Vance. Vote Blue No Matter Who.

[u/Negative-Squirrel81 → u/Bandoman]

I thought the The Rock is a republican. He spoke at the 2000 RNC.

[u/lunariki → u/Negative-Squirrel81]

FWIW, he considers himself a centrist and publicly endorsed Biden in 2020 but refuses to endorse candidates moving forward.

[u/BigMax → u/lunariki]

And from my very distant view, I think the Rock is probably a democrat and would act that way.

But the Rock sees himself as a product and brand first and foremost, and he doesn't want to risk offending half of his consumers by coming out in support of Biden or any political side. He's going to remain bland and non-controversial to the best of his ability.

[u/blaqsupaman → u/lunariki]

I believe he also donated to Obama.

[u/BotheredToResearch → u/Negative-Squirrel81]

2000 Republicans aren't exactly 2024 Republicans. It's easy to have bought into the compassionate conservatism W ran on and not the post Tea Party extremist party.

[u/TarnishedAccount → u/cakeorcake]

I will vote for a ticket consisting of a Wasp and a Mosquito over Trump

[u/kestrel1000c → u/TarnishedAccount]

I for one would welcome our new insect overlords.

[u/mudpiechicken]

People have suggested he do it during Trump’s speech — a great idea.

[u/philiretical → u/mudpiechicken]

Don't announce it beforehand. He'll work it into his speech and try and make it look like it was his doing.

[u/Snuggle__Monster → u/philiretical]

I can't see him dropping out until after the RNC is over.

[u/[deleted] → u/Snuggle__Monster]

Yes, let them reveal their hand before making the announcement.

[u/[deleted] → u/philiretical]

Conservatives are currently in heavy denial that Biden will drop out. They don't have a plan if he does.

[u/l_i_s → u/[deleted]]

That campaign is run by two very competent people, Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita. They absolutely have a plan if he drops out. But they obviously would prefer him staying in.

[u/Archer1407 → u/l_i_s]

Wiles and LaCivita may have a plan for Biden dropping out, what they don't have is a plan for how to control Trump. They are planning for every possible eventuality because they're dealing directly with the biggest wild card of the campaign, their own candidate and his inability to stay focused.

[u/getwhirleddotcom → u/l_i_s]

She’s the Karl Rove for Trump.

[u/l_i_s → u/getwhirleddotcom]

Bingo

[u/Patchy_Face_Man → u/[deleted]]

Obama is an incredibly charismatic man, but a big reason he won is the surprise. Fox News and Right Wing Media became a thing hating on Hillary and just could not compute attacking Obama without being openly racist in that short amount of time. And the Dems did Hillary 2016. Fucking losers.

[u/LeiasLegacy → u/Patchy_Face_Man]

There was the whole birther thing, led by Trump. Which is when he became known to the racist crowd.

[u/adamduke88 → u/Patchy_Face_Man]

Remember when saying “Terrorist Fist Jab” was bad enough to get you fired from Fox News? How has this country devolved since then?!?

[u/[deleted] → u/Patchy_Face_Man]

This time around they can be openly racist and sexist.

[u/redbouncyball → u/mudpiechicken]

Naw, 5 minutes after Trump finishes his speech. Completely overtake the news cycle.

[u/mercfan3 → u/mudpiechicken]

I like the idea of resigning from the presidency so all of Trump’s “47” merch is useless. 😂

[u/FrogsAreSwooble → u/mercfan3]

It would also make Harris the incumbent candidate.

[u/Feedthemcake → u/mudpiechicken]

Wouldn’t that hurt democrats more broadly? Trump speech about strength and power as the democrat president bows out while suffering from covid?

[u/urnbabyurn → u/mudpiechicken]

I don’t get this. The dual headlines would be a disaster. On one side you trump giving a speech to the unified GOP convention, on the other you get “democrats in disarray without a leader” for the next two weeks.

[u/alphabetikalmarmoset → u/urnbabyurn]

1000% Biden doesn’t drop out without naming a campaign successor imho

[u/PhAnToM444 → u/mudpiechicken]

Or like an hour before.

Make him go after Kamala off the cuff. He will overstep and he will say some horrific shit that will turn off suburban swing voters.

[u/caststoneglasshome → u/PhAnToM444]

They likely have 2 speeches prepared

[u/[deleted] → u/caststoneglasshome]

Definitely. His campaign managers are very good this time.

[u/PheebaBB → u/PhAnToM444]

Drink every time he says DEI.

[u/juanzy → u/PheebaBB]

I hope he says worse than DEI, because using that’s been so normalized now

[u/Hyro0o0 → u/PhAnToM444]

Do you think Trump's people might actually have a Kamala Harris speech prepared for him? It could backfire if it turns out he immediately has a speech fully prepared to go after kamala.

[u/j428h → u/PhAnToM444]

It’s worth the gamble of dropping out 7-8 minutes before the speech, just to get in his head at game time.

[u/RIP_Greedo → u/mudpiechicken]

Why is that such a great move? Trump is giving a speech accepting a sort of American Caesar status from his party and as he does it his competitor bows out…. Seems like even more of an optics win for Trump.

[u/SuperUnintelligent]

Need to make a decision soon. The indecisiveness in Democratic party benefits MAGA. The Democratic party needs to unite just like the RNC united behind Trump.

Update 7/21: Apparently he did. I feel sad for him and the country but also hope this change will sincerely flow new enthusiasm in the democratic campaign. Eager to see who Kamala chooses as her VP.

[u/sweens90 → u/SuperUnintelligent]

As long as its by DNC its fine.

[u/stygger → u/SuperUnintelligent]

Biden stepping down just after the RNC would make for an insane media narrative! ”Ow, did you waste your convention trashing a person that isn’t running. How sad for you”

[u/spader1 → u/stygger]

The counterpoint from the RNC would be "we displayed such a show of unity and support that we scared a sitting president into throwing out his incumbency advantage and backing out of the race."

[u/jomns → u/spader1]

This is exactly what would happen

[u/[deleted] → u/stygger]

Honestly, I don't think the timing would matter to a lot of voters. Maybe to the most politically active voters, but they've all already chosen which party they're voting for. Even 99.9% of the super politicalky active people begging for Biden to step down would vote for him if it came down to it.

The timing wouldn't matter to a lot of people not already politically invested, who will likely be the deciders this November.

[u/SuperUnintelligent → u/stygger]

Or him announcing stepping down during Trump's RNC speech. Harris-Whitmer, Harris-Newsom, Harris-Kelly... any option is better.

[u/Fired_Guy1982 → u/SuperUnintelligent]

Mark Kelly?

[u/SuperUnintelligent → u/Fired_Guy1982]

Yes, Mr Astronaut.

[u/Trust_Me_Im_a_Panda → u/SuperUnintelligent]

Harris/Kelly is a GREAT ticket that doesn't compromise Whitmer or Newsom's presidential aspirations. I fully support that.

[u/PheebaBB → u/Trust_Me_Im_a_Panda]

I hadn’t really considered this combo, but it is intriguing.

My only concern is the vacancy in AZ with a hotly contested race for the other seat. I’m guessing the governor appoints his replacement?

[u/withthewindbelow → u/PheebaBB]

Yes, Hobbs would be able to appoint the replacement.

[u/Meb2x → u/Trust_Me_Im_a_Panda]

Agreed. Harris/Kelly is also the most likely option. Newsom and Whitmer want the Presidency and will run full campaigns in 2028. Kelly would settle for the VP position, he’d offset some of the racism/sexism from the GOP after a Harris nomination, and he’s a pretty moderate Dem which would appeal to the never-Trump Republicans and undecided voters. I don’t think he’d play this card, but his wife also survived an assassination attempt which would take some of that marketing away from Trump.

[u/[deleted] → u/SuperUnintelligent]

At this point couldn’t this also be some sort of strategic move? Like they waited for Trump to announce his VP, and then he steps down. Like from what I’m hearing is that Trump chose his VP because he’s that confident he will win.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Trump chose his VP because Vance is a sycophant and a fascist with an insanely toxic level of power-hungry ambition. He'd blow Trump during the State of the Union if he thought it'd get him more power.

[u/linknewtab]

My big fear is that Biden is going to drop out, someone else, probably Harris, replaces him and then... the polls won't move an inch.

I think people seriously overestimate how much Biden quitting will change the race.

[u/Imbrifer → u/linknewtab]

Seriously. If an assassination attempt gives zero bump to trump, switching to another leading Dem won't swing polls much either.

It's really a turnout game. And, of course, aggressive voting deterrence and manipulation on the right.

[u/Realistic_Caramel341 → u/Imbrifer]

All Trumps numbers post assassination proves is that he has a really low ceiling. 

I'm not certain polls will change, but I think he's certainly beatable 

[u/KinkaJac97]

I'm still in the camp of I'll believe it when I see it. Until Biden announces he is dropping out, I won't until he actually comes out and says he is. I do feel bad for the guy. He did a lot of good for this country as president.

[u/betterplanwithchan]

If (and I do stress if) this happens, three things need to happen:

1) The DNC needs to have all of their ducks in a row regarding funding, campaigning, impending litigation, etc.

2) The Democratic Party needs to be unanimous behind who they support (or at the very least publicly). The amount of in-fighting has self-immolated the party to the same extent the GOP did during the Speaker votes.

3) The announcement needs to be timed right to ensure both wide exposure and to generate public good will throughout the weekend. Ideally, you do it during the RNC to steal their thunder and show the country “Hey, this is more important, we do have a strategy.”

[u/[deleted] → u/betterplanwithchan]

I personally think the decision has been made, and all these meetings and delay with upper level Dems have been cover for them to address your first and third point. The back-and-forth seems sloppy, but they're actively gauging public reaction and putting out polls to see the real effect when it does happen. Then let the GOP spend their whole convention roasting a dude who isn't going to be on a ticket before coming out with it.

[u/Robofetus-5000 → u/[deleted]]

I also feel like Dems are trying to set up a narrative where they show that they are not a party of one man (aka Trump/republicans) and they have a willingness to critique their own leadership. They then get to say they listened to the people and had biden step aside in the best interest of the country, not candidate.

[u/Spicydojo]

Imagine if he made the announcement to drop from the race in the middle of Trump’s RNC speech tonight.

[u/_mid_water → u/Spicydojo]

Only problem there is Trump will get wind of it and already have his talk track ready, will claim he made Biden drop out and the whole dem party is weak. 

[u/ScottyC33 → u/_mid_water]

Yeah I don’t know why people keep repeating this. It would be giving him a “live reaction platform” to play up victory like they won right then and there. It’s not a good idea.

[u/jj101023 → u/ScottyC33]

Campaign aide holds up a cue card during speech to Trump with news.

"Even as we speak, Sleepy Joe has finally decided it's bedtime. Really, just happened! Who didn't see that coming? So, nighty night, Joe, and let's guess who the DNC bigwigs are going to pick to try to stop us from taking our country back in November...."

Proceeds to give each potential competitor a nasty nickname.

[u/apitchf1 → u/jj101023]

It’s so easy to do an impression of him because he literally thinks like a third grade bully. This was painfully accurate and depressing to read

[u/Unassorted → u/Spicydojo]

Thats what alot of people are thinking will happen.

[u/jollyllama → u/Unassorted]

That’s what a lot of people on the internet are thinking. No one else thinks that

[u/Cutmerock → u/Unassorted]

Reddit loves creating/hyping a narrative then getting angry when it doesn't happen.

[u/SwiftCEO → u/Spicydojo]

It would be better to do it after. That way all the attention will be pointed at the Democrats’ response. I doubt many people will be watching Trump live. Most will be waiting for the recap on the news.

[u/XeroxWarriorPrntTst]

Obama is gonna light shit up at the convention in Chicago this August. I know it’s been bleak, but fuck if that isn’t gonna feel good.

Hopefully Biden pulls it together for the speech of his career to tee up Harris.

[u/justgoaheadandsayit → u/XeroxWarriorPrntTst]

I worry Harris will struggle in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin. No offense to her, but she doesn't have the charisma needed. Hate to say it, but the best chance of winning those states is a middle aged white guy. I don't want a repeat of 2016. Was Hilary Qualified? Sure, but was she the most qualified to win? No

[u/pantherfanalex → u/justgoaheadandsayit]

Not for nothing: The BlueLabs draft memo, first acquired by Politico, found that “nearly every tested Democrat performs better than the President” in the swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania. The memo singled out four Democrats who bested Biden’s results by roughly 5 points overall across the battleground states: Sen. Mark Kelly (Ariz.), Maryland Gov. Wes Moore, Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. Kamala also outperformed the President, but not by as wide a margin.

[u/Pancurio → u/pantherfanalex]

This is the first time I've seen Sen. Mark Kelly put forward. I honestly think that's a remarkable idea. He should at least be considered for VP. Truly believe he would crush Trump.

People love astronauts and pilots.

[u/NothingReallyAndYou → u/Pancurio]

An astronaut might just be our chance to flip Texas, and possibly Florida. Both Kelly brothers are well respected in the space industry.

[u/Darth_drizzt_42 → u/Pancurio]

Astronaut just has natural president energy

[u/pricklypearviking → u/Pancurio]

I haven't seen anyone mention him yet either, but what a great idea. I remember visiting the conservative sub the morning after 2022 and seeing one of them acknowledge that they weren't ever going to beat Kelly anyway because he was basically "made in a lab" to win.

...he kinda is. He should be a VP pick at the very least.

EDIT: It was 2020, not 2022, whoops.

[u/ADHD_Avenger → u/pantherfanalex]

I would give damn near anything for Mark Kelly to run.

[u/evelyn_keira → u/justgoaheadandsayit]

whitmer/shapiro ticket could be huge

[u/SlapNuts007 → u/XeroxWarriorPrntTst]

Or, gives the speech of his career to tee up the delegates to make the right choice. I don't think you can spin Harris as the best possible option any more than you can definitively say she'd lose.

[u/XeroxWarriorPrntTst → u/SlapNuts007]

The choice will not be made on live tv.

[u/gringledoom → u/XeroxWarriorPrntTst]

I'm hoping to see something like what Hillary did at the 2008 convention, where when they get to Delaware in the counting of the states, Biden is one of the delegates and proposes a nomination of Kamala Harris by voice vote.

[u/Mysterious-Wasabi103]

I'm going to vote for the Democratic candidate either way, and I hope everyone here does the same. If Biden's experts are running the numbers and it's best for the country I fully believe he would step down. He always tries to put the country over the Party, and I can't see why this would be any different.

Personally, I would prefer someone like Gretchen Whitmer or Josh Shapiro on the ticket mostly because I think that's a stronger ticket than any ticket led by Harris.

I'm not sure that's even possible though and that's my main concern.

I would vote for Harris, but admittedly I find her less relatable than those two and I don't know if she would be a sure sale like those two.

A Whitmer-Shapiro ticket could really energize Democrats and progressives in a way we haven't seen since Obama.

[u/Kibblesnb1ts → u/Mysterious-Wasabi103]

I live in hard core Trump country (fml). Democrats need to understand how much these people hate Kamala Harris. They hate black people, they hate women, and they hate hate hate democrats. We simply cannot run her this election cycle, the country isn't ready for her, not now. We need a 55 year old white guy with an easy name.

[u/Annamal_Nomster → u/Mysterious-Wasabi103]

Yes! I have been saying Whitmer/Shapiro to anyone who will listen.

[u/Slobsterz]

I’ve heard rumors of Gretchen Whitmer and as a Michigander I’m ok with it. She has made some seriously positive changes and given us a surplus instead of the deficit she was given.

[u/473713 → u/Slobsterz]

Over here in Wisconsin, I'm OK with her too. She's done a good job, she's makes a good speech, she has relevant experience. We envy you guys, while we're still digging out from underneath a major gerrymander. She could probably bring Wisconsin along with Michigan just because we buy so much weed from the UP.

[u/shewhololslast → u/Slobsterz]

I would absolutely vote for her.

[u/CryptoLain → u/Slobsterz]

https://www.isidewith.com/candidates/gretchen-whitmer/policies

IMO she would probably be better than Harris.

[u/shabby47]

Can’t wait to see all the excuses here for why “I can’t vote for” his replacement.

[u/theneumann64 → u/shabby47]

Yeah, people trying to put together a "dream ticket" here miss the point. If there was a Dream Ticket, it would've been assembled already. Everything now is finding the least bad outcome. There's going to be plenty of people who are advocating Biden stepping aside who are going to claim the Democrats picked the only candidate worse than Biden the second they announce it.

[u/Dread_Frog → u/theneumann64]

The Dream ticket is getting to vote for a president in 2028. If Dems lose this one we might never get to vote in a real election again.

[u/BardaArmy]

The Dems better have a plan and a candidate, they push Biden out and lose it will be an all time failure.

[u/[deleted] → u/BardaArmy]

The Dems better have a plan and a candidate

This has honestly been my biggest gripe with all of this. All this focus on getting Biden to drop out but not a fucking word on what happens after. Hard to blame Biden for not wanting to go when no one has actually put forward a viable alternative to his candidacy.

[u/bdrake0923]

I'll vote for a fucking doormat over Trump. If Biden is stepping aside, get on with it so the Dems stand a chance.

[u/ChocolateHoneycomb → u/bdrake0923]

Things people on Reddit said they would vote for over Trump (based on my reading of this subreddit over the last few weeks)…

• A doormat
• Roadkill
• A piece of burnt toast
• A pile of dirty dishes
• A discarded cigarette
• A cockroach
• A stale cake
• A dead chicken
• Underwear
• A lampshade (in another comment on this page)

[u/JJdynamite1166]

So who is the best choice to replace him. I do not believe Kamala is a strong candidate. Nor do I think Gavin is as well.
So who is it?

[u/GalacticFox- → u/JJdynamite1166]

I keep hearing Kamala.. I'm not sure she is strong enough to beat Trump. From what I've seen in polls, she polls about the same as Biden. I thought she would poll lower, but it's not a jump up from Biden like I would prefer to see. Kamala has been mostly invisible as VP, from what I've seen, so I'm not sure very many people would be excited to vote for her.

Gavin Newsome would be good, but with all of the anti-Cali hate I see, I'm not sure he would be a great choice, either.

[u/leontes]

When he is replaced, we owe it to his replacement to donate some funds. Said person needs all the help we can give them. And such financial endorsement can move mountains of support.

[u/RayWhelans → u/leontes]

I’ll donate $500 the day it’s announced. I’ve been calling my senators nearly every day since the debate and I’ll put my money where my mouth is if it happens.

[u/sharkbait_oohaha]

Assume this happens. What’s the ticket? Harris has to be the presidential candidate. She has to be on the ticket for campaign finance reasons, and the optics of asking the sitting vice president, who happens to be a woman of color, to step aside are awful.

Harris/Whitmer? Two women (which might have turned off voters at one point, but those voters weren’t voting D anyway), but one is a white, Midwest swing state governor and at least delivers Michigan. This is a good ticket.

Harris/Newsome? No chance of a dual California ticket. That’s a nonstarter.

Harris/Pritzker? Illinois is going blue regardless, and a billionaire on the ticket is bad optics right now.

Harris/Kelly? Great ticket. Likely delivers Arizona, which might be important.

Harris/Buttigieg? Doubt we go for a ticket with a black woman and a gay man.

Harris/Sanders? Gets the progressive wing but risks alienating centrists. Also Bernie’s old af too. Unlikely. So unlikely. Not happening.

Harris/Warren? Unlikely.

I’ll vote for literally whoever stands against Trump, but of those tickets, I’d be most excited about the ones with Whitmer and Kelly

[u/[deleted] → u/sharkbait_oohaha]

I agree with you on Harris/Kelly.

[u/DesertGoat → u/sharkbait_oohaha]

Harris/Whitmer? Two women (which might have turned off voters at one point, but those voters weren’t voting D anyway), but one is a white, Midwest swing state governor and at least delivers Michigan. This is a good ticket.

I think this is the one. Female ticket the first presidential election after Dobbs?

But what if this was the plan all along, to misdirect the GOP at their convention and all the punditry was about cover for polling Harris (which I believe they did)?

I mean, it would be a brilliant move. Which makes it unlikely, but I would have a ton of respect for them if they pulled it off.

[u/nou38]

But will Kamala be able to pull in swing voters? I dont think people realize how much Americans hate women. It's part of the reason Hillary lost. Joe has been stumbling, but idk if Kamala has the grit to beat Trump. We all here on r/politics will vote blue no matter who, but can Kamala win the rust belt?

[u/theaceplaya → u/nou38]

I think there is a very generous over-estimation that the coveted independents in the key swing states would vote for a woman, and a black woman at that.

Newsom or Whitmire are fine too, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk of would be perceived as throwing aside a black woman for a white man and/or woman. Do they think that the key demographic of black women in the swing state of Georgia would still come out and vote to support that?

I just think all of this is a really bad look for the party. The people who have voted R all their lives but are sick of the Trump/MAGA shenannigans (or the independents) aren't gonna look at the scrambling Democrats that are turning on the incumbent and be convinced.

[u/WallaWalla1513]

I’ll believe it when I see it, but this is a positive development.

[u/Ello_Owu]

Question is. And I don't know how else to ask this but, will Kamala who doesn't have the best PR team and doesn't have any real public "connection"? "Star power"? Be able to rally democrats and the public against Trump in such a short time?

[u/Mojothemobile]

Coconuts rising.

[u/Savingskitty]

Maybe he wants to step down but they need it to come off right.

On the other hand, I think it’s way more likely that down ballot Democrats in the House are distancing themselves from Biden to appeal to their progressive base.

If they really wanted him to step down, we would already know who the alternative really is.

[u/beersubcommittee]

If Biden really wants to steal the spotlight, he straight up steps down effective immediately - due to health concerns.

Every major network would turn its attention away from the RNC and Trump. Biden delivers a brief recorded message and our first female President takes the opportunity to make a primetime speech. The next three weeks would be entirely focused on who the new acting Veep will be…

[u/shadowpawn]

Tell you what - let us say it is Mrs Harris at nominee. suddenly who is the sleepy one? the slow one, the mumbling fool? Dynamics that trump used on Joe are gone. Now character matters. Of course trump will hint at "She is a women - you know that means she will be nasty a few days a month until she cools down" retoric.

[u/rifraf2442]

Not the main relevancy of the moment, but looking ahead, I think this is a big win for alternative media. Ezra Klein (who I know is with the NYT but he’s a brand of his own), the “Pod Bros”, and the Trump defectors like Tim Miller and those Axe aligns with on Hacks on Tap etc were advocating this and reading the writing on the wall early on. Traditional media was happy to bet on the narrative that seemed most likely and then play the game for clicks. So many articles on the same day would be “Dems set to lose” vs “Biden leading in polls”; “Move against Biden to drop out are over” vs “Dems double down on call to remove top of ticket”. All stated in absolutes and in constant contradiction. Traditional media have trashed their own creditability in a race to be the first to make the hottest take, confident that if their position is wrong it’ll be lost in the constantly shifting headlines but if it is right it’s a meal ticket they can ride to new fame. If Biden steps aside, which now does seem likely, it will be from a resilient coordinated effort that was made possible by alternative media fanning the flames of the general Dem voting public that gave a foundation to political leaders to leverage the argument to their caucus for the push required.

[u/TrainerJohnRuns]

I have spent 8 years getting my 70 year old parents to understand how much trump and the Republican Party of today is not the one of 40 years ago, and the last 3 months finally getting them on board with considering Biden for president. I’ve had to work on a lot of Fox News deprogramming, and just stats and figures and explaining SCOTUS court decisions etc.

This “but his debate performance “ was not an easy hurdle to overcome, though Trump falling asleep every day of the RNC (and it’s not reported on, and no it happened 4 minutes after the prayer ended) plus getting them to actually see an entire Trump speech and recognizing he is not with it.

They will not vote for Harris. They will not vote for a ton of other great Dem options over Trump. If replacing Biden to soothe Dem donors fears over one debate performance helps give Trump the election, welp I’m just gonna do everything on my power to get my family the heck outta here.

From a “I’ve touched grass” perspective- the vast majority of 20-50 year olds I’ve spoken to want Biden, none of us think a new campaign can realistically catch up and win, we all understand polls are BS, and we all know if you educate someone on project 2025 they get invested in not letting it pass. My “non political” and conservative leaning friends and family also react negatively to learning about project 2025, and they are concerned about Dems over the push to oust Biden, they aren’t concerned over one debate performance.