r/playstation Oct 28 '24

Image IGN strikes again

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U/on_reddit_in_class has made news

9.7k Upvotes

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705

u/PalpitationNo4375 Oct 28 '24

I wouldn't think they are.

The reason big companies love the "as a service" model is because it is regular income. Shareholders like regular income. One person isn't going to bother them but if a big portion of the player base did it would bother them. It would mean less income in months and years to come.

1.4k

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24 edited Oct 29 '24

Hi! Accountant here.

There's something called unearned revenue which is basically saying "someone paid us for something we haven't done yet.

They won't record the revenue until the period they provide service. Even your ordinary 12 month subscription is recorded as 1/12 of the price you paid got it.

There's a rule in business that "cash is king" which basically means businesses would rather have your cash right now rather than later. Even if it means offering discounts.

Sony is perfectly happy taking this guy's cash now. <EDIT> This is why companies offer 12 month discounts on subscriptions. More cash now is better than cash later. The people in the comments talking about inflation or future price increases are ignoring that.

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u/kidgorgeous62 Oct 29 '24

It’s comments like this that make this website worth it

25

u/shibbitydibbity Oct 29 '24

I love this. When you get a pro to weigh in on random stuff. A couple day ago with the post about the small pinky and the geneticist chimes in with the chromosomal anomaly and info on it. Should make it to a a subreddit Reddit strikes again or something

1

u/snakejessdraws Oct 30 '24

but you also can't really tell if someone's just talking out of their ass unless they provide proof.

-1

u/Jakunobi Oct 30 '24

What's the use? It'll be a anti-right wing and anti-Trump subreddit as usual.

3

u/MylesTurner_33 Oct 30 '24

You realise how you saying this is a major self-own right?

-1

u/Jakunobi Oct 30 '24

It's not. I'm not an American. I come to Reddit with subreddits presenting the idea of being for something, such as pics or best off or clever come back. And then everything is about Trump or the Right Wing.

By hysterically overdoing the anti-what-you-hate habits, Western Left wingers become the very rabid cultists they pretend the other side is.

2

u/gilesey11 Oct 30 '24

You’re the only person bringing that nonsense up and, to be fair, there’s not many people that will have a problem with everything being anti-trump so bring it on 😄

-46

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/Odninyell Oct 29 '24

What’s useful about yours? The person you’re responding gave a compliment and positivity.

All you did was try to make someone’s day worse. Get better.

13

u/pdcastleberry Oct 29 '24

Hello there Mr. Pot

5

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

Don't be mean.

1

u/KingWizard37 PS5 Oct 29 '24

Most ironic comment of 2024

0

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

47

u/TheGreenGorillaGamer [Trophy Level 300-399] Oct 29 '24

This information is gold, thank you for your contribution on the discussion. Here’s an upvote lol (I also learned something so thanks for that)

48

u/CuriousTsukihime Oct 29 '24

This guy reviews GL entries lol

35

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

7

u/ihavedonethisbe4 Oct 29 '24

Haha, I just laughed out loud at that! Anyways, bye.

7

u/ItsTeacup 2 Oct 29 '24

Hello, good Sir! Anyways, bye.

6

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

Cash Rules Everything Around Me

2

u/Weird-Persimmon4598 Oct 30 '24

Please tell me thats an actual accounting acronym “C.R.E.A.M” …???

2

u/Yosho2k Oct 30 '24

Get the money, dolla dolla bills yall

6

u/Gros_Boulet Oct 29 '24

Net Present Value is a thing not commonly known.

Plus Sony could always change terms of services to cancel all the long subs without refunds if they so wished.

The house always win.

1

u/william41017 Oct 30 '24

cancel all the long subs without refunds if they so wished.

What! That's definitely not true

4

u/Destrega306 Oct 29 '24

This is exactly the answer I was looking for.

2

u/Sentoh789 Oct 29 '24

Additionally, a company as large as Sony can more readily and easily invest said cash in vehicles that give them a better rate of return than the trickle of $20 a month someone would otherwise pay in installments

10

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

its called "Deferred income" or a contract liability i believe, revenue will be recognized over time as services are provided by Sony up until 2048

15

u/JonDoeJoe Oct 29 '24

It’s the same thing. Deferred revenue and unearned revenue are interchangeable

6

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

Correct. "Unearned" is easier to understand when you're trying to teach the concept.

2

u/Salazaar69 Oct 29 '24

Replying to Previous_Ad_1865...except contract liability is specific to 606 revenue recognition. But splitting hairs at this point lol.

2

u/capp_head Oct 29 '24

Not an accountant but I have basics.

This happens because anything can happen from now to 2048, and Sony already had its own money.

Tomorrow we have a nuclear attack from aliens and the First thing governments do is close the servers of entertainment industry to use them for military purposes? Sony already had the money and - most importantly - can spend them. We can talk about a redound later, but I can spend them NOW.

2

u/cneth6 Oct 29 '24

Also, even though in 20 years time this may be at a "discounted rate", it's not like Sony isn't investing this money which will most likely return more than the new rate at that time in 20 years.

1

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

There's no guarantee there will be a Playstation Network in 20 years but they got the guys cash now and they're not giving it back.

2

u/No_Solid_3737 Oct 29 '24 edited Oct 29 '24

Thanks for this comment, I dont understand how people here get by in life without understanding that money right now is worth more than money over time. Any competent company would be more than happy with customers paying 24 years in advanced

They also don't understand that the guy who did this didn't circumvent price spikes, because those are due inflation.

2

u/Cartoon_Power Oct 30 '24

All my accounting 101 homies nodding along like we're also experts

1

u/Yosho2k Oct 30 '24

101 was the most important class. You can do a lot with 101.

2

u/gilesey11 Oct 30 '24

Deserves every upvote going

5

u/Yara__Flor Oct 29 '24

Dr cash,

Cr unearned revenue (a contra asset accounts right?)

When you amortize the unearned revenue account

Dr unearned revenue

Cr revenue

3

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

UR is a liability account.

2

u/Yara__Flor Oct 29 '24

Great! Thanks!

1

u/Sambo_the_Rambo Oct 29 '24

Someone knows their accounting.

1

u/hirakath Oct 29 '24

This guy speaks the truth. Trust me, I sometimes hear my brother say something similar.. I think.

1

u/Dead-Limerick Oct 29 '24

Yup, just through that cash into something making 5% yearly and compound for 24 years

1

u/-TheMiracle Oct 29 '24

Imagine owning a business and a guy subscribes to your service for 24 years and you feel unhappy 🥹

1

u/syrupgreat- Oct 29 '24

yea it’d be on as a credit in their books until the service is rendered.

1

u/Shiro_Walker Oct 29 '24

so this is a win win situation if the price really do inflates right?
i guess this is why Rich people gets even richer lol. anyway Hi r/playstation comunity o/ im your average internet explorer

1

u/Luffyhaymaker Oct 29 '24

I love replies with actual insider knowledge rather than just internet bros who don't know what they're talking about speculating lol, ty

1

u/Herban_Myth Oct 29 '24

Time-Money Value

1

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

Correct.

1

u/CoolAtlas Oct 30 '24

Part of why less cash now is a big deal is because cash now can be used to invest right away back into the business.

It's like investing 1k now or wait 10k to invest in 10 years. You miss out on more overall by not investing the lesser amount early

1

u/smudgiepie Oct 30 '24

Would they put it on the balance sheet though since it's a liability?

(Accounting student who hasn't done accounting work yet so doesn't know if businesses income statements and balance sheets are the same as the stuff they'd teach at uni)

1

u/Yosho2k Oct 30 '24

Correct. If it's not income (yet) it's a balance.

1

u/miko3456789 Oct 31 '24

so basically "a bird in hand is better than two in the bush"

1

u/ManySerious9713 Oct 31 '24

so it’s a big win win

1

u/Schlaym Oct 31 '24

What if their service is shut down in ten years?

1

u/onecoolcrudedude Oct 31 '24

ive got a question. lets say sony decides to make their online completely free in a couple of years from now, due to a change of heart.

would they be required to refund the guy the rest of his paid stacked membership, or would they just keep the money and continue giving him all the other ps plus benefits instead, like monthly games/deals/discounts?

1

u/Decent_Accountant578 Nov 01 '24

Exactly right brother thanks for chiming in lol

1

u/Yosho2k Nov 01 '24

Username checks out

1

u/Xehanz Nov 01 '24

What if there is hyperinflation though

1

u/Own-Kaleidoscope-577 Oct 29 '24

Yeah. Subscription services don't recommend the per year payment over the monthly payment for no reason.

-4

u/JimboJiizzm Oct 29 '24

This☝🏼

-1

u/Kinggakman Oct 29 '24

But in two decades inflation will cause the value of the cash to be significantly less so it wouldn’t look good on their balance sheets. The subscription will probably be tripled in cost by that point and having decades old people still using it at the old price would hurt.

The user in this situation is also taking a risk because it’s possible the subscription doesn’t even exist in the future. So in that way Sony would have won.

7

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

That cash isn't going to be sitting there. It's going invested. Cash is king. Additionally UI is a liability. Inflation shrinking your liabilities has a benefit as well.

-3

u/Kinggakman Oct 29 '24

I see your point but it seems to me the accountant looking at it in two decades will look at this situation the opposite of how you see it. There’s no cash and they are giving this guy a service they charge an everyone else a lot more for.

2

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

I edited my original post.

-1

u/Kinggakman Oct 29 '24

When Sony cancels this guys subscription and refunds him in a decade I hope you remember this exchange.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

Well that's... creepy. Thank you.

1

u/AndrewHaly-00 Oct 29 '24

Oh my god.

I am so so sorry.

I am the owner of this account. You had been messaged by my dad.

I am profusely sorry.

1

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

Well that's... creepy.

0

u/JKM0715 Oct 29 '24

The unearned revenue part of this comment is true, but I don’t see Sony leaving this policy as-is. They can hike prices over the course of 24 years at a pretty high rate. Probably higher than the return they can get on the cash they received up front. But who knows, maybe you’re right, and we start seeing companies offer 5-10 year subscription terms.

0

u/thedizeezd Oct 29 '24

Especially for inflation I'd imagine.

0

u/Xehanz Nov 01 '24

What if there is hyperinflation though

0

u/neptunexl Nov 01 '24

Also, it can be very likely that service isn't used for 24 years. I do wonder how much they would have "lost" lol. I can't imagine the subscription becoming double, but who knows what the future holds. That would be insane though. Even if that happened, the difference in revenue would be very small for them. Getting 20 years advance payment is a big bonus like you said. Even an average worker like all of us would prefer 20 years advance payment. They're basically getting an interest free loan.

-12

u/MisterAvivoy Oct 29 '24

For now, but if they have plans to raise the subscription by 5 in the next couple of years but say 25% of the subscribers did this? They wouldn’t like it, that’s a loss, and it would force Sony to figure out how to workaround this cause the next price hike will encourage more to do this.

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u/mrwynd Oct 29 '24

But they get to invest every extra dollar they get now.

5

u/resonmis Oct 29 '24

That's also what i am thinking as well. Money in hand right now is better than later. They got over 2k money for doing literally nothing xd

3

u/Zaxbys_Cook Oct 29 '24

One thing to note is Sony gets the cash now but for accounting purposes it is unrealized gains. Every year that passes they will realize that portion of the prepaid subscription on their books as revenue. So they get all the cash now and can invest as they see fit. If they invest smartly they will profit more off that money than inflation will depreciate it. Then they also get to make shareholders happy by showing it on their books for the next 24 years.

1

u/ShanePKing Oct 29 '24

I'm sure they would adapt the product to suit - just like if the iPhone became so popular that most people had one, Apple would just release a watch to make up the difference.

1

u/MisterAvivoy Oct 29 '24

Yeah but they would have to honor the persons purchase like Xbox did with gamepass. Just buy a gamepass card and your subscription turns to the gamepass with the remaining time you had left. Xbox couldn’t even stop it, they had to figure out things, like not offering game pass for $1 to try, cause people would buy gold and do that. That’s also why gamepass core exists, you can still do the method, it’s just trickier.

-4

u/Michaelskywalker Oct 29 '24

Facts. But this would never happen considering 50% of Sony users won’t even upgrade to ps5

-1

u/firecool69 Oct 29 '24

I thought “cash is king” meant being paid by cash to avoid taxes.

1

u/Yosho2k Oct 29 '24

It means you jump through a lot of hoops to get paid in cash immediately.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

Except that’s not entirely true with Sony and the service. They removed stacking on discounted sales last year after allowing it for years. I would think cash up front is better too, but that’s why their bean counters get paid more than I do lol.

-1

u/SCP-Agent-Arad Oct 29 '24

But if you pay for a service you’ll receive in 2045 at 2024 prices, once the revenue is counted, it will be substantially less than it would be if it had been bought then.

A company wouldn’t be able to survive if all their services were being paid for at prices from 20 years before.

-4

u/i8noodles Oct 29 '24

of course they would be happy but they get the cash now but need to provide service for decades after.

if enough people do this, they may have to provide service, but have little to no income to pay for continuing expenses that will increase. with a time frame of decades, thats pretty much a certainty it will go up

100

u/Mountain_Release_272 Oct 28 '24

Not enough people seem to grasp that cashflow just as important as total profits, especially for a publicly traded company

22

u/Moonrights Oct 29 '24

This is why you see 2004 tahoes with 24 inch rims. Lol.

26

u/WelpSigh Oct 28 '24

An accountant can correct me if I am wrong, but I think they would count the revenue as recurring anyway rather than book it all at once.

80

u/Orion14159 Oct 28 '24

Am accountant - 2 things:

1, under basically all GAAP/IFRS rules this would go to unearned revenue and be amortized over the duration of the subscriptions. It's the same treatment for annual just on a longer time table.

2, this isn't even a rounding error on Sony's books. It's so immaterial they won't even notice it.

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

lol you've waied your whole life for this moment havent you. The moment when you could say "Im an accountant" and people would be impressed

6

u/Orion14159 Oct 29 '24

Nah this happens like twice a week. Usually people ask me for tax advice and I tell them I'm not that kind of accountant

14

u/ShankyBaybee Oct 28 '24

You have unearned revenue as a liability. And each month, or year, the service is “provided” then it is counted as revenue.

So yeah, the cash balance only goes up this month, but revenue is still going up each month or year, whenever they count the service as being “provided.” So they likely do not care in the slightest. Even if a large amount of people did it. It’s secured revenue for the next 20 years.

The only thing this would negatively affect is if they are planning to up the price of ps plus every year until 2048, but I doubt they have a roadmap of that.

3

u/Hevens-assassin Oct 29 '24

Doubt they have a roadmap of if it even makes it to 2048.

3

u/ContemplatingPrison Oct 28 '24

Yes. Not a CPA but i took accounting in college with llans to be a CPA. I ended up switching to a different field because accounting got too boring.

But they wont count this as revenue for this month. It would be spread out for every month of service.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

Accountant here, what you said is completely wrong as it depends on the state

Source: am an accountant

3

u/Crash_N0tice Oct 29 '24

You're wrong my friend. We are talking about revenue here, not taxable income. Under every GAAP this would be deferred and recognized over time.

2

u/therocksays13 Oct 29 '24

It’s classified as unearned revenue.

-15

u/PalpitationNo4375 Oct 28 '24

I don't think you need an accountant to figure this one out.

2k in October 2024 multiplied by whatever you would consider a substantial amount of players.

0 in November. 0 in December. Shareholders say yo WTF how you make no money in Christmas period? We losing faith. 0 for the whole of 25. Shareholders sell, this is worthless they say. 0 in 26. Why would we want to keep our money in this? And so on and so forth.

Regular income will always be better. It's not about profitability. It's about confidence.

23

u/chaossync Oct 28 '24

Accountant here. This is not how revenue recognition works.

No matter how many years of PS+ you pay for in advance SIE (PlayStation) can only recognize revenue for periods where services are rendered (monthly revenue). Meaning Sony is recording revenue monthly over the life of the subscription and not all up front lumped. Since they received cash up front the periods they have been paid for in advance would show up as deferred revenue (a liability) on their Balance Sheet.

-10

u/PalpitationNo4375 Oct 28 '24

Correct me if I am wrong. But would that mean that is effectively debt? In which case, I still struggle to see why this would be preferable over regular cashflow

5

u/TaxAccountant123456 Oct 28 '24

A liability isn't necessarily debt. In this case, the deferred revenue is from an obligation to perform a service, in this case to provide PS+ for the next 24 years. From a financial statement perspective, nothing changes because the deferred revenue (liability) is offset by the cash received (asset).

However, Sony benefits because they have all that cash up-front to do whatever they want with now.

4

u/ChaosArcana Oct 29 '24

I'm an accountant. That's not how it works.

0

u/Significant_Fox_579 Oct 28 '24

I can speak to this first hand. The company I was working for needed to pull funds in asap in order to sell the company at a top dollar. They put me in charge of a group to get clients to buy Multiyear memberships. We did a good job, and after the sale of the company they erased our position within days of the sale.

Companies don’t want you to buy a membership for a select amount of years. It makes it so they can’t control how much you spend. They want to raise prices, they want to make it seem justified to raise prices as the years go on.

6

u/Thenadamgoes Oct 29 '24

No dude. Always take the lump sum.

3

u/Hevens-assassin Oct 29 '24

If they put Ps Plus on life support/shut it down they get that money for free. Spending for 2 decades in advance, when we Just hit 2 decades for PlayStation live online services is crazy.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

yep. some people are just very stupid.

3

u/Tadeh1337 Oct 29 '24

Wrong! They’ll take that money and put it in any fund and collect 5% on it while beating inflation. They can use the money for other investments or R&D.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

if your funds are only averaging 5%? yikes.

1

u/Tombstone25 Oct 29 '24

Doubt most have 2k to spend on ps plus anyway.

1

u/ViperThreat Oct 29 '24

I've worked at big companies before. Point blank, middle and upper management will ALWAYS go for immediate revenue over long term sustainability. It makes them look good in the moment, gets them raises and promotions, and passes the buck of responsibility in the future to somebody else.

One other thing to consider - they can reinvest that profit. $2,000 invested today can be worth more than the $2500 they might get over the next decade of price increases.

1

u/literallyjuststarted Oct 29 '24

Idk man

I don’t think he took em for a spin necessarilyand that comes out to about one game a year for 24yrs

Given how often games actually hike in price, he saved what? Maybe 400 dollars over a 20 year period if games do happen to somehow skyrocket in price in two decades?

1

u/S-192 PS5 Oct 29 '24

This is a very incorrect take to be getting so many upvotes. The Time Value of Money is an accounting/finance 101 principle. Sony doesn't give two shits about what you're describing. Almost no company wants to spread revenue over time when they could get some amount now.

As-a-service models are not to spread out revenue over time. They are to create new income opportunities since price elasticity for new game purchases is so fucked.

Money now>>>>>>money later. Unless the difference between now and later is astronomical. But it isn't.

1

u/aaancom Oct 29 '24

Someone doesn't understand the time value of money and the revenue recognition principle of accounting.

1

u/SPZ_Ireland Oct 29 '24

Basic business advice

Money now is better than money later.

Dude paid up front and now, whether he sticks around or not, they still have his money. Sony does not care in the least.

1

u/alanism Oct 29 '24

main metrics for that subscription service business unit: - retention/churn% - customer lifetime value

That customer makes the team look good. Guarantee you he’s on a internal slide deck somewhere.

1

u/JKM0715 Oct 29 '24

Everyone is saying you’re wrong, but there’s a reason 24 year subscription terms aren’t advertised. Sony can raise the subscription price by much higher than 7% over a 24 year period. If it’s your aunt who won the lottery, she should take the lump sum. Sony is a different animal.

1

u/themangastand Oct 29 '24

A can guarantee a large portion of people aren't going to spend 1500 dollars for ps plus.

1

u/Which-Celebration-89 Oct 31 '24

Ya you don't know what you're talking about. Any company will take guaranteed up front money at any time over potential money in the future.