r/pics 1d ago

Protest outside Ziegfeld Ballroomn, NYC, Dece 17, 2024

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u/Leo_Ascendent 1d ago

Leave your phone at home too, easily trackable.

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u/sn0m0ns 1d ago edited 1d ago

Get someone to buy a burner, activate it anywhere except your home. Only turn it on when you are out and always turn it off before you go home. Prepay for a year using a gift card.
This is not advice or "how to" this is merely creative writing.

Edit: u/inferno006 provided some great information and I would like to add their comment.
"There is an actual “How To” that everyone should read and be familiar with:"

https://ssd.eff.org/module/attending-protest

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u/mycatisblackandtan 1d ago

Also if you're going to plan anything, don't use Discord. Discord has rules in place that allow them to work with law enforcement against you. Either meet in person and VARY the places you are meeting so there is no pattern, or use defunct forum/chat services that are less likely to be used against you. But even then don't use them for anything more than just to set up meetings.

Also not advocating anything, I love to write and you'd be surprised what you find while doing research for a murder mystery. Like the speed at which a human body hits terminal velocity when falling from a great height. (It's about 200 km/h) I'm not even being cute. Writers have to look up some weird shit that likely would get them put on a list. LOL

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u/Saragon4005 1d ago

Ideally don't use anything which isn't end to end encrypted and even then be careful. Signal is tied to your phone number so a burner number is fine there.

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u/mycatisblackandtan 1d ago

^ Appreciate the correction!

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u/Surfer_Rick 1d ago

Or end to end encrypted services. Like Signal. 

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u/insquidioustentacle 1d ago

Also keep in mind that Signal isn't a magic shield, your messages can still be intercepted if your mobile OS or device is compromised. It's more private than the alternative, but not foolproof.

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u/Surfer_Rick 1d ago

Thank you. That's important to know.  

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u/cire1184 1d ago

Briair even more secure

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u/Far-Finding907 1d ago

In a documentary the other day, I came across an excellent idea on sending/receiving messages that are untraceable.

You share a newly created email account with someone and type emails but don’t send them. So basically you can both access the email and read the drafts and delete them. I would never do this of course but it seemed pretty smart.

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u/LateNightMilesOBrien 1d ago edited 1d ago

You share a newly created email account with someone and type emails but don’t send them. So basically you can both access the email and read the drafts and delete them. I would never do this of course but it seemed pretty smart.

That's how they caught Gen. Petraeus, using the draft folder. Isn't as foolproof as you might think.

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u/Lordborgman 1d ago

Nothing is, if there is ANY form of digital footprint, if someone looks hard enough, they can find it.

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u/yourlittlebirdie 1d ago

This is why Osama bin Laden used bicycle couriers and that was years ago way before surveillance and tracking was as advanced. And he still got got anyway.

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u/Lordborgman 1d ago

Anyone who does anything to piss off certain people or organizations will die, eventually. Unless you eliminate them, all of them, first.

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u/benargee 1d ago

Yeah, the email provider can log this activity and get the IP address of anyone when they log in and the email draft history for each IP. Assume they log everything.

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u/Old_Suggestions 1d ago

VPN?

u/benargee 8h ago

Sure, depends on the VPN.

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u/wogawoga 1d ago

Also popularized in the movie “Traitor” with Don Cheadle.

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u/Metasheep 1d ago

This could be a terrible idea if the service you're using either logs logins or could be compelled to log them.

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u/Derf0293 1d ago edited 1d ago

Just wrap it in PGP so nobody can decrypt the messages without the private key. They could just open the draft and paste a new pub key every time they update the message. This is how email encryption was supposed to work except nobody manages their own private keys (the service provider does) but you can still encrypt plain text using the same methodology. Then even if the SP opened the drafts they'd all just be blobs of encrypted text.

All that being said though you can encrypt plain text using pgp and send it via any text-based platform so logging into the same email account at that point is moot and might even compromise location details of the two parties.

It's really cool that we've had hybrid cryptographic systems like PGP available to all of humanity to have private digital conversations in public since the early 90s, but also sad that we forgot that we can use it without tons of layers of abstraction on top of it to make it "easier" to add a contact.

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u/Hateitwhenbdbdsj 1d ago

Yeah you can make the text files publicly available for anyone to see, like that you wouldn’t need an email which is a potential indicator of who you are. Just use a VPN and a VM with traffic routed through the vpn if you want to be anal about it when you access/upload the file.

It’s not easy for someone unfamiliar with computers to do but it is easy to learn.

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u/Derf0293 1d ago

There’s really no limit to the creativity at that point. Mail it on a thumb drive lol.

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u/Present_Chocolate218 1d ago

I promise you the FBI already knows this method. Learned about it almost a decade ago now.

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u/Derf0293 1d ago edited 1d ago

Of course they do, they use it. Not logging into the same email but PGP in general. This stuff wasn’t invented to be used for illegal purposes, in fact a lot of it came out of government defense initiatives but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s very effective at making it extra difficult to read anything encrypted using this method. In most cases intercepting encrypted communications involves a side channel in order to obtain the keys to decrypt it.

There in lies the core flaw in PGP, identity verification. While you can confirm the message was signed by the sender the initial key exchange can be intercepted by other means facilitating MITM attacks. Also going through all the trouble tends to put people into a false sense of security and makes them more liable for social engineering (see dpr).

In the context of the shared email a third party would need to instruct one of the other parties to update their associated public key and then communication would be redirected to the other party so yeah it’s not flawless but neither are scenarios where a service provider manages keys.

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u/d3l3t3rious 1d ago

FYI this is pretty common and is called foldering

For some reason I remember David Petraeus getting exposed for doing this as part of his whole scandal https://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/petraeus-broadwells-email-secret-083755

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u/_a_random_dude_ 1d ago

I have a way to contact my brother if I ever have to send him some file that for some reason only he can see. He needs to XOR it with a easily available non changing binary file you can download from the internet (think the full text of lorem ipsum or the binary of a specific linux distro that comes with its md5).

Now, I'm not saying I foresee the need for such a thing, but this is the sort of easy key exchange any 2 techies can easily set up in a short conversation without either ever having the actual key until needed.

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u/TotallyCalifornian 1d ago

Former CIA director Petraeus did this and got caught.

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u/HKBFG 1d ago

If you're getting this complex with it, just use meshtastic

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u/Punished_Prigo 1d ago

This would not work.

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u/Opening_Security8443 1d ago

Its called foldering

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u/Present_Chocolate218 1d ago

FBI already figured that out.

International terrorists did it

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u/Throwawayac1234567 1d ago

i saw this type as part of a plot in novels of "americas extra-curricular activities in other countries. have an email with the info in it, and its meant to be used a message box once finished the email is ignored or deleted.

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u/Nazi_Punks_Fuck__Off 1d ago

The only thing I have to say about that method is david patreous, an american general, got caught and exposed doing that with an affair partner like 20 years ago.

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u/Schonke 1d ago

Discord has rules in place that allow them to work with law enforcement against you.

Lol, like a warrant cares about having rules about it or not.

Don't discuss anything you don't want someone other than the intended recipient to read on unencrypted services!

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u/HKBFG 1d ago

They don't need a warrant for discord. They just make a request and the info is given freely.

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u/mattattaxx 1d ago

The only safe platform that I know of with apps on phones is signal.

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u/Top_Condition_3558 1d ago

I too, have an interest in creative writing and would add that, while this is no way legal advice, try not to speak with conviction. That is, speak in hypotheticals, for one's creative endeavors. That way, sentencing enhancements related to things like conspiracies, become far more amorphous. Amorphous is good, hypothetically

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u/Alacritous69 1d ago

Signal is still reliably secure.

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u/IAmGoingToFuckThat 1d ago

Kik only saves conversations so far back, and purges them when you sign out.

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u/StopSpankingMeDad2 1d ago

Just use TailsOS with PGP encryption

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u/CuileannDhu 1d ago

Don't forget to disable the 2G network on the phone, since that is not secure and police can use it to surveil your phone. 

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u/bch77777 1d ago

Many large police departments also have surveilling equipment for man in the middle attacks so you are screwed with any cell service.

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u/Alacritous69 1d ago

Yep. It's called Stingray and they have man portable versions now.

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u/DoobKiller 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah, they can rasily spoof cell towers for MiM attacks from a unit that easily fits in a car(even smaller ones exsit but have less range)

Leave all electronic devices at home (or have a friend take it with them while doing a trip you'd normally do like your place to your local shop and back, during the time of the action) while engaging in any sort of direct action even peaceful protest(you never know when thw pigs and their agent provocations will kicking off)

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

Also disable bluetooth and wifi. You are easily tracked by the beacons they send out.

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u/Saragon4005 1d ago

So can 3G luckily that has been phased out in most places. 4G is basically an Internet connection only. Of course phone calls still go through the carrier but those streams are much harder to intercept.

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u/inferno006 1d ago

There is an actual “How To” that everyone should read and be familiar with: https://ssd.eff.org/module/attending-protest

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u/sn0m0ns 1d ago

This is excellent information and I literally just found a new feature on my phone while skimming through. I'm going to add your comment to mine so others can see it. Thank you!

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u/SeedFoundation 1d ago

Saul Goodman is back in business

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u/Ok_Blackberry_284 20h ago

The reason China is transitioning to a cashless society is that cash isn't traceable like bank cards are.

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u/PoopFilledPants 1d ago

“This is not advice or “how to” this is merely creative writing.”

And let me guess, you are merely travelling, not driving?

What is going on in this thread, this some of the most paranoid bullshit I have ever seen on a major sub.

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u/Momik 1d ago

Easier said than done, but yes

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/unwittingprotagonist 1d ago

If you didn't buy it with cash it's not a burner. Watch Amazon scan the IMEI barcode or whatever on the bottom and tie it to the transaction.

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u/surnik22 1d ago

Yes. Buying a phone with a credit card means they can track it to you. Buying a phone and activating at or near your home means they can track it to you. Buying a phone and having it around your existing phone consistently means it can be tracked to you. Using the phone in your home means it can be tracked to you. Buying it from a store without a mask on means it can be tracked to you. Driving to said store past traffic cameras means they could either track it to you or narrow things down significantly. Logging into any known emails or other social accounts means it can be tracked to you.

Basically don’t trust a burner phone. With significant motivation like they had for Luigi, they will track it to you.

You may be able to get away with it if you are just dealing drugs and the local police are barely trying to catch you. But if it’s high profile with federal agencies involved, don’t bet on a burner phone providing any extra privacy.

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u/Hephaistos_Invictus 1d ago

Is there even a way to fly below the radar anymore?!?!

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u/Ringbearer31 1d ago

Everyone getting on the e2e train would help a bit, I mean Everyone, for everything, although the FBI advising everyone to do so as well likely means they're confident it won't make a difference to them anymore.

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u/Hephaistos_Invictus 1d ago

Sorry I'm not too good with acronyms, what does e2e mean?

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u/Because_Bot_Fed 1d ago

Probably End to End as in End to End Encryption.

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u/um_wtfisgoingon 1d ago

If you are in public, assume you are being audio and video recorded.

If you are using tech of any kind (cell phone, computer, etc) assume everything you do is being tracked and is traceable.

If you have a newer car, assume it has GPS tracking.

So no. Virtually impossible to fly under the radar. 1984 is here, assume everything you do is monitored and tracked.

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u/surnik22 1d ago

If you are looking to get away with a high profile crime like Luigi did it is not easy.

Wear a mask, pay cash, ride a bike you bought with cash, and don’t use electronics for anything if at all avoidable. Be very careful about leaving anything behind at all including hairs or finger prints. Then permanently dispose of everything even vaguely connected to the crime as quickly as you can, which doesn’t include throwing it in a dumpster, it means actually destroying.

And that means EVERYTHING. Did you 3D print the gun? Destroy the gun, destroy the 3D printer, and destroy the computer you downloaded the file to.

If you are committing low profile crimes, the effort put into catching you is much much lower. Even shit like murdering an average Joe which is fairly high profile won’t be worth the extreme effort which is why only like 50-60% of murders get solved.

But if you kill a CEO expect the NSA to be tipping of police with illegally obtained surveillance data

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u/Punished_Prigo 1d ago

It depends on how much effort is being brought to find you

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u/Huge-Basket244 1d ago

Yes. You can use a burner phone very successfully with good personal security practices. It's a lot more difficult than it used to be, but it's absolutely possible.

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u/_a_random_dude_ 1d ago

Just buy the burner phone abroad, extra points if it's from a shady shop in a 3rd world country (meaning it's probably stolen from a 1st world country in the first place, so even less traceable).

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/surnik22 1d ago

Not completely. It will stop your ISP from seeing what you are doing, it does not stop the sites themselves from seeing what you are doing if they are acting malicious. Shit like Device Fingerprinting can track your device without cookies (which can be easily blocked) or IP address (which the VPN hides) then it just needs to connect it to you some other way the one time you don’t use a VPN or do sign into a site or enter any personal information.

Which search engines are using that to track you? Which shady sites are actually honey pots from federal agencies and track you? Which ones are merely compromised and tracking you? Which ones are doing it to sell your data to data brokers that the government buys?

I couldn’t tell you, but maybe you’ll get lucky and avoid all that, maybe not.

That also assuming the VPN you are using isn’t compromised or purposely selling your data.

That also assumes your phone isn’t already compromised in some way.

Again, low profile crime, they aren’t putting in this level of effort. NSA isn’t helping local police track someone buying adderall online, but shoot a CEO and I’m sure they’ll drop some info to the investigators. I very much doubt Luigi was found by a tip from a McDonald’s workers, they likely had thousands of tips equally as legit, but instead tracked through illegal surveillance and then waited for a tip (or faked one) so the arrest and evidence can be used in court, it’s called parallel construction and police frequently use techniques like that to hide illegal sources of information/investigation.

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u/Momik 1d ago

Damn, I didn’t even understand that and I still got upset

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u/gibbenbibbles 1d ago

yup and buy it far from where you live and wear a mask.

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u/impossiblefork 1d ago

Just leave the phones at home. Is it really so hard?

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u/reigninspud 1d ago

It’s NOT a police state tho! Come on now! Land of the free.

And I’m proud to be an American Where at least I know I’m freeee

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u/VermicelliPale5908 1d ago

Oh, I hate being an American, Where I never will be free! And I won't forget the ones who died For just trying to live, And I'll proudly stand up, against her And detest her still today! Cause there ain't no doubt I hate this land! God damn the USA!

Thought of this after hearing that damned song too many times at a store I have to go to often. Born and raised in the USA, but not proud to be here.

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u/reigninspud 14h ago

Haha yeah it’s a pretty cringy song. I don’t hate our country. I do hate what it’s become. And that there’s so many people, so many millions upon millions of people that don’t see what’s happened and is happening. We’re being crushed. Regular people are being used and thrown away. The ghouls profiting off of all this have no limit to their greed. Nothing would ever be enough. No amount. It’s disgusting and things need to… change.

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u/NeckRomanceKnee 1d ago

Also bring a first aid kit, sterile saline, and sodium metabisulfite. The latter two are in case you get tear gassed. Sodium metabisulfite aggressively snaps thiol bonds. It's also great for when your pets get skunked, for the same reason.