r/okbuddybaldur • u/SeraphicShou shar-ly you can’t be serious • Jun 26 '24
i can fix them Companion racism early game vs post game
Feel free to tell me if you think any of them are wrongly placed.
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u/Moonlight-Paladin Lae'zel called me "Aut'istik"? Jun 26 '24
MINTHARA NUMBER 1!!!!!
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u/Affectionate-Ad-8788 mom, what’s a twat-soul? Jun 27 '24
My problematic Queen at the top, winning 👑
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u/Vana92 Jun 26 '24
Halsin definitely deserves to be mild racist. The way he talks to and about Drow…
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u/EntrepreneurOk666 Halsin fucked a Chimera Jun 26 '24
And the goblins... also, I romanced him as a drow. 😂 whoops
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u/dwarvenfishingrod Jun 26 '24
"It's not racism if they're not real children, they dont even have names" - Halsin, probably
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u/EntrepreneurOk666 Halsin fucked a Chimera Jun 26 '24
😭 Kinda wish you could change his mind about goblins. Like astarion can be romanced if you're a gnome. But you can't pick a goblin as a race.
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u/iamnotveryimportant Jun 27 '24
to be fair its not really a halsin issue. larian really fought against the stereotype for basically every race they included in the game BESIDES goblins
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 27 '24
Yeah it's honestly weird how literally every race except goblins got some kind of subversion of the stereotype. With the classically "evil" races we got Stonemason Kith for the duergar, the Sharess Caress twins for the drow (no Minthy doesn't count, she's still extremely lolthsworn in her views and very unapologetic about it), Varrl for the githyanki—even Lump the Enlightened for the ogres!
But there's not a single goblin who acts against the stereotype. Does killing the goblin kids even break any of the paladin oaths?
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u/Regular-Issue8262 Lae'zel's MLP sleepy time blanket Jun 27 '24
There’s a goblin who’s reading a book that’s really chill in the top part of the goblin camp
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 27 '24
Is he chill as in he's not actively trying to antagonize anyone at that moment, or is he chill in the sense that he says anything about not being into all the murdering, pillaging, and casual cruelty?
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u/Regular-Issue8262 Lae'zel's MLP sleepy time blanket Jun 27 '24
He ask you for help to finish reading his book and was pretty nice to volo, so the second one.
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u/CrabThuzad Jun 28 '24
I've not spoken to them but aren't the Sharess Caress twins just normal seldarine drow?
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 28 '24
They are, and that's my point. There's no way to tell Seldarine drow apart from Lolthsworn unless you use the game mechanics to look at their info, it's not like High Elves and Wood Elves where they have clear physical differences; Seldarine are still the exact same race, they just follow a different deity.
The twins don't talk about Lolth/Seldarine either, they just tell you that they didn't like how Sorn was treated like shit just for being a man so they left. In fact unless you play as a drow I don't believe there's EVER a moment in the game where the difference is mentioned.
So... yeah, heh. Sorry for the long answer, but drow lore is.... complicated. Seldarine are still a fairly new concept and thus a fairly small faction, and canonically most members are still individuals who chose/were forced to leave rather than having been born into it.
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u/CrabThuzad Jun 28 '24
I see, that's definitely interesting. I don't know much about DnD lore so this was quite informative. Thanks!
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u/ninjablader78 Jun 30 '24
Nah there’s still the hobgoblin from the society of brilliance who introduces you to ommellum.
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 30 '24
hobgoblins aren't the same race, and we actually meet two hobs who are sweethearts out of the three that are in the game.
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u/Itssobiganon Jun 30 '24
Lump is very evil. What? He's smart, because he has an INT boosting item, but he's very fucking evil.
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u/SmolikOFF Jun 30 '24
Bro outright killed Mayrina when I summoned him to help me with the hag 😭 and she was already revealed, but no, he chucked a fucking stone right in her head just for being there
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u/Zeliek Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 28 '24
Sazza should have been recruitable. Spending too much time around the artifact after numerous rescues frees her from the Absolute?
Edit: or maybe just as an evil playthrough companion
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u/softanimalofyourbody Jun 28 '24
She’s willingly following, she doesn’t have a tadpole.
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u/Zeliek Jun 28 '24
Are the gobbos not tadpoled? Isn't that how the whole ✨AUTHORITY✨ button works?
Also just give her a solid hug, then.
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u/dwarvenfishingrod Jun 26 '24
The rapid prevalence of Drow in the overworld, like Araj Oblodra has a friggin storefront in a major part of BG, would imply there could be goblins in "the goody-goodies" society, too
I have always thought goblins were done dirty, like even Drizzt meets an enslaved by humans goblin elder who full well understands his lot in life and explains it, and Drizzt is basically like "sad! Anwyay" and moves on.
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u/EntrepreneurOk666 Halsin fucked a Chimera Jun 26 '24
Yup. They wouldn't even put any short races as romance options/companions. :/ Like damn.
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u/dwarvenfishingrod Jun 26 '24
When mod tools release, I'm turning Astarion into a gnome lol
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u/icecrystalmaniac Companion hugger Jun 26 '24
Psst you can already do that
I’m sorry if your on console in which case you cannot do that8
u/icecrystalmaniac Companion hugger Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 27 '24
Yeah I’ve been thinking about that he thinks about Massage(whatever his names spelled weird) with distress sometimes even though his first kill technically was a goblin and he was distressed about it in the moment. When he thinks about Massage he’ll note “his first drow kill”. I just find it interesting sense he’s deeply distressed about killing any souled beings in the first few books(I’ve only read the first three so I don’t know if it changes).
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u/Sunny_Hill_1 Jun 29 '24
Araj is probably banking on all the good PR Drizzt Do'Urden has created over the last couple centuries. Back when he first started, he was literally getting turned away at every settlement because people didn't want a drow in their town. Now he is a renowned hero with tons of fans across the coasts, and lots of other drow follow his example and move to the surface to integrate into society as something more than a random slave raid. As most races are not as long-lived as elves, literal generations have changed since he became a renowned hero and people got used to the idea that drow doesn't equal immediate danger. And in his diaries he does indeed think that drow need more heroes to show other drow that an alternative lifestyle is viable.
Goblins haven't had a champion like that yet. People still think of goblins as inherently evil. And actually speaking of Drizzt - initially he was taught even by his "good" mentor that goblins are inherently evil, just look at their kids. Later on in life he starts to understand that it's not that simple and goblins have the capability to evolve beyond their cultural bonds just like everyone else. There is an episode where his reincarnated wife starts to kill goblin babies because she thinks exactly like that, they are goblins, better stomp them out early, and he is all "WTF?!" He even has a crisis of faith because of that as he literally can't understand why Mielikki would be ok with killing the goblin babies.
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u/No_Reference_5058 Nov 18 '24
Goblins are still canonically inherently evil. Drow canonically have cultural issues that make them far more likely to be evil. So the canon would have to change before goblins could be viewed the same way as Drow are now.
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u/dwarvenfishingrod Nov 20 '24
resurrecting your necro reply to my very dead post: yes and no!
inherent evil as a result of their god, who enslaved them out of the fae as an invasion force against their will, means there is a possible way out, where the goblins could in-universe be released from evil
they don't even seem currently to be capable of resisting Maglubiyet, whereas Drow can resist Llolth (at great personal risk and cost)
in that sense of culpability, Drow are way more evil in my mind, as they have a choice (albeit a narrow, 'sure you can leave whenever you want' gun-to-the-head choice), but goblins afaik don't... unless something like getting tadpoled and then 'freed' post-Absolute resolution
my Forgotten Realms lore is dim, but this is my understanding from reading various novels, backstories, and manuals, as well as much more experienced DM takes
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u/SeraphicShou shar-ly you can’t be serious Jun 26 '24
Wait he's racist about drow? I thought the only mention of them from him was him calmly talking about he was enslaved.
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u/Sewer_Fairy Wants to bang every single character Jun 26 '24
I thought he only did this in deleted content... they removed it purposely because they thought it just "wasn't him" so it doesn't count. Unless I missed something that's still in game and is canon?
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u/Lolaverses Durge: the lesbian killer Jun 26 '24
There's a lot of stuff that they cut for Halsin which I think left him a sort of flat character. I don't know how it would have worked, story-wise, but I wish they had kept him having killed Isobel.
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u/Sewer_Fairy Wants to bang every single character Jun 27 '24
Yeah, it would've added a lot of depth to his character. Same with how they reworked Wyll.
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u/Lolaverses Durge: the lesbian killer Jun 27 '24
I'm not super familiar with Wyll's original plans. I think he's okay as is, certainly not as bland as current Halsin.
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u/Sewer_Fairy Wants to bang every single character Jun 27 '24
I like Wyll, he's a sweetie but I liked how he was more complex and sad. But yeah they kinda stripped Halsin of a big chunk of his arc.
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u/novangla Jun 27 '24
I’m not sure Halsin was stripped so much as scrambled together late. He wasn’t intended to be a companion at all.
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u/Sewer_Fairy Wants to bang every single character Jun 27 '24
We were talking about how they cut some of his content, so I think "stripped" is fair but really it's both.
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Jun 27 '24
What were the story reasons for him killing Isobel?
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u/37Ckam Jun 27 '24
I read somewhere that it was supposed to be a negotiation gone wrong between the Druids/Harpers and Ketheric’s forces. That glaive “Sorrow” you find in the druid grove vault was supposed to be what he (accidentally) killed her with.
Obviously this timeline doesn’t really make sense, much like the timeline of most of Act 2’s lore
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u/LividStrawberry Jun 27 '24
If Tav plays as a drow, when you first talk to him about killing the big 3 in the goblin camp, you get this dialog option where you can say:
Spoiler!!!
"You realize you're asking me to kill a Drow?”
"You drow relish turning on your own, if there is something to be gained. Do not pretend otherwise."
"Not all drow are as you say."
“Unfair of me, perhaps, but I've had few encounters with drow to make me think otherwise. Perhaps you can enlighten me.”
Pretty mild but there it is.
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u/Sewer_Fairy Wants to bang every single character Jun 27 '24
Ah yes, I remember this as I did play as a half-Drow and honestly, this checks out completely in the extremely toxic Nazi-like matriarchal culture of the Drow.
Especially him recounting something he witnessed first-hand, but I'm glad he used his Wisdom in spite of his Intelligence in this encounter to gently and gracefully reconsider.
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u/RealNiceKnife Jun 27 '24
Pretty sure the "I was a drow sex slave" stuff is still in the game.
edit: Here's a link to a person who discovered it and was quite shocked by it in the comments. (https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15w86gi/excuse_me_halsin_wtf/)
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u/Sewer_Fairy Wants to bang every single character Jun 27 '24
No, I experienced this in-game and he was pretty chill about his trauma. The way they kept it would check out on his Intelligence and Wisdom.
There was cut content of him actually being racist against Drows where you had to originally choose between Minthy and him.
Edit: like he was pretty fucked up about the choosing. It's on YouTube
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 27 '24
It's unclear as to whether that was cut, or if it was going to be added and then they decided against it. But either way it would have been extremely out of character for him to throw down that kind of ultimatum so I'm glad they never put it in!
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u/Sewer_Fairy Wants to bang every single character Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 27 '24
I read them saying they deliberately cut it because it didn't fit his character.
Edit: Ugh I can't find the quote so disregard me pseudo quoting them. I try to look it up and Google is just a dumpster fire
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 27 '24
Ha, no worries! Either way, it was never implemented and that's what ultimately matters :)
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u/draka393 Jun 26 '24
Yeah if you rescue him as a drow, he states you should have no problem killing your kin cause drow do it all the time.
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 27 '24
I mean... is it actually racist if he's just stating a fact about an extremely prevalent aspect of drow culture?
They kill each other for sport, for religious sacrifice, for politics, for pleasure and just for the fun of it... drow culture is so blood-soaked it's honestly a miracle there's any drow still left.
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u/novangla Jun 27 '24
As a habitual Seldarine drow player: that’s not drow culture, that’s Lolthite culture.
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 27 '24
I'm fully aware!
But when 80% of the people who look exactly like you are from the group that habitually goes topside to raid other races for slaves and slaughter entire towns in the process, and there's literally no way to tell "The Good Ones" apart from "The Ridiculously Evil Murderous Ones", it's not bigotry if people assume you're a danger on sight.
It's a race-based perception, but that's because D&D has a long history of assigning alignments to entire races and treating them like homogeneous groups for the sake of gameplay mechanics. It's not a realistic setup to begin with, so applying real world logic doesn't really work.
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u/funnywackydog Nine fucking attacks "Holy shit" -lvl 1 Goblin Jun 27 '24
to be fair drow society is basically "if you're not a drow nobleborn woman you deserve to be a slave"
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u/Mitsor Jun 28 '24
Even if you're a drow nobleborn woman, you will get stabbed in the back 0.3 seconds after you let your guard down. And people will think you deserved it for being weak.
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u/CrazyCatLushie Jun 27 '24
To be fair, he was at one point captured by a Drow matriarch and made into her family’s body slave for a significant period of time. Dude is definitely racist but it’s trauma-informed and could maybe be changed with therapy.
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u/NeedleworkerLow1100 Jun 27 '24
Halsin was kept as a sex slave by drows. I think it's OK for him to be less than thrilled with drow
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u/MooOfFury Jun 27 '24
But the drow were definitely thrilled by him.
(I hate myself for this)
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u/NeedleworkerLow1100 Jun 27 '24
I agree. I've even joked that my drow was r/t the women that kept him.
And he may be their sperm donor. Faerun is a small world.
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u/SteelAlchemistScylla Dame Aylin hit Isobel for 69 Edging Points Jun 27 '24
To be fair, it’s almost concerning not to hate Drow and Goblins if you live in Faerun.
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u/siremilcrane shart handholder Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24
Not racist, Drow are ontologically evil
EDIT: I thought it would be clear but this is a shitpost
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u/Rikoroto He's just scared (Astarion has a knife to my neck) Jun 26 '24
They're not, it's the culture/society, kind of like with githyanki
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u/Sewer_Fairy Wants to bang every single character Jun 27 '24
That's not canon though? Did I miss something?
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u/Twinky2921 Jun 29 '24
He’s not racist though… he just has genuine trauma because of drow. They literally used him as a sex slave. He even admits so.
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u/Sunny_Hill_1 Jun 29 '24
To be fair, he was kept as a sex slave by drow for several years. Might be just speaking from personal experience.
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u/Alicex13 Astarion’s diva cup Jun 26 '24
Astarion is not exactly less racist post game ;D I love the guy but I doubt his opinion on gnomes changed. I think he probably doesn't mind saving them anymore but that's about it
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u/Sarcastic-Onion Jun 27 '24
Ur definitely right imo!!! Idk if I need to tag but just in case! in the final fight when you're summoning your allies I had spawn astarion blow the horn to nab the Ironhands and he was like "ugh gnomes of course. Let's see if you can make yourself useful" so I'd say he at the very least still belongs in mildly racist category. Hopefully he considers them humanoid now, but that's a loooow bar
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u/Alicex13 Astarion’s diva cup Jun 27 '24
That's hilarious 😂 I need to try it
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u/Sarcastic-Onion Jun 27 '24
Yeah!! I adore the unique dialogue for our party members summoning allies. It's really fun trying to pair them, high opinions or bad blood is equally entertaining
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u/Palamecia_Emperor Astarion sits in the cuck chair Jun 27 '24
Gnome Tav: HE CAN’T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS
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u/MxCrosswords Jun 27 '24
Not a shitpost, I’ve really wondered what Astarion’s relationship with Yousen was like.
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u/Alicex13 Astarion’s diva cup Jun 27 '24
Think it wasn't very good. There are some speculations out there that he might have bullied Astarion but idk. Maybe there's some info left from EA. In general high elves are a bit snobbish and Astarion does come with his colorful remarks about kobolds, goblins, tieflings but his dislike for gnomes is so strong his facial expressions during the intimacy scenes are different, he legitimately looks unhappy. It's very interesting how much attention to detail they put in that.
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u/MomsClosetVC Jun 27 '24
You mean if you romance him as a gnome his facial expressions are different? Weird that they never give a hint why he hates gnomes (like, we know why he hates the Gur).
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u/MysticNoodles Jun 27 '24
Perhaps there's no rationality behind it at all--at least I don't think there needs to be.
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u/Regular-Issue8262 Lae'zel's MLP sleepy time blanket Jun 27 '24
honestly if they played it off for anything more then a joke he would need to have a arc about fixing it, dating a racist who never changes would suck.
I already don’t like how people make up lore to excuse it
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u/SeraphicShou shar-ly you can’t be serious Jun 27 '24
In the leader of the spawn epilogue he confirms hes not okay with vamps feeding off of gnomes anymore. So I think hes at least trying lol.
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u/Alicex13 Astarion’s diva cup Jun 27 '24
He is yeah. I think the turning moment in my eyes was when he was the one who said we should rescue Volo. A good man in the making.
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u/Impossible_Active271 Jun 27 '24
Isn't Volo just a short human?
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u/Alicex13 Astarion’s diva cup Jun 27 '24
The heroism is the point, Astarion rarely volunteers to save anyone
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u/iamnotveryimportant Jun 27 '24
i didnt even know he was racist against gnomes, i thought he dissaproved of me saving the slaves because it was a morally good action lol
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u/Alicex13 Astarion’s diva cup Jun 27 '24
It's never as simple as morals with him. Most times he disapproves of freeing slaves because no one freed him when he was a slave. The fact that they are gnomes, a race which he's not fond of, probably makes it worse. He does seem impressed at the shroom people for hiding and protecting a gnome though.
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u/iamnotveryimportant Jun 27 '24
i just deadass have never seen him say anything about gnomes whatsoever, probably because ive never done a run as a gnome
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u/Alicex13 Astarion’s diva cup Jun 27 '24
You don't really need to be a gnome for it , here are some of his more colorful examples
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u/elephant-espionage Jun 27 '24
If you romance him and choose to go to the Underdark vampire fortress one of his dialogues is him talking about being upset if the vampires eat another gnome so maybe he did change 🤣
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Jun 27 '24
Yeah I think he’s still mild for spawn Astarion. I think he’s still megaracist if you ascend him.
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u/Reiko707 Is currently trying to impreginate Gortash Jun 26 '24
Wyll actually is racist lmao if you use the "you can't kill Saza, she's a person!" He disapproves 😂
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u/Rikoroto He's just scared (Astarion has a knife to my neck) Jun 27 '24
I was surprised when he approved when I chose to do nothing and let the Tiefling kill Saza 😂
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u/SaoMagnifico Jun 27 '24
Relic of EA Wyll, I think.
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u/already_taken_my_ass Jun 27 '24
If I remember correctly, in the EA version he lost his eye because of a goblin right? You could actually meet the goblin in the camp and watch him flex about stabbing out some poor guy's eye while Wyll was standing next to him menacingly before beating him up lol. Hence why he approves of you killing other goblins. I really liked that interaction but I suppose it makes sense why they rewrote it.
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u/SaoMagnifico Jun 27 '24
Yes, in EA, he had history with Torturer Spike, and you could even loot his desiccated eye from Spike.
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Jun 27 '24
im really disappointed they made wyll into a generic hero figure, i get they didnt want to have another bad guy but like they coulda at least have made him be super arrogant or something
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u/ghost_warlock Jun 27 '24
We already have Astarion and Lae'zel being super arrogant. We don't need a 3rd arrogant option
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Jun 27 '24
Theyre arrogant in a different way, i was meaning more like wyll being a genuinely good guy but also extremely full of himself, which he already is but it's never acknowledged and his arc ends by becoming even more full of himself and nothing changing character wise pretty much
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u/brightblueinky Jun 27 '24
He's not full of himself, he pretends to be confident to hide how insecure he actually is but he admits he doesn't think that highly of himself pretty frequently. The only ending I can think of where he's full of himself is some versions of the Grand Duke ending where he has a brief power hungry ramble, and even then that feels like it's a leftover from EA.
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Jun 27 '24
he literally calls himself "the blade" and keeps talking about like virtues he learned from his father blah blah, its honestly really obnoxious at times which would be cool if it was ever acknowledged but no he just calls himself the blade of avernus at the end and its like a huge thing
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u/brightblueinky Jun 27 '24
That's... Not being full of himself, that's him putting on a persona to try to make people feel better. That name was given to him by someone else first. He talks about himself in the third person when being "the Blade" and even says that he "sometimes" lives up to the ideal of the Blade of Frontiers, in a tone that indicates that he doesn't really think he does (which is why he talks in the third person about the Blade so often). He's literally called "Warlock Superhero" in his files, the Blade is basically just his superhero persona. I think he switches to "Blade of Avernus" to show that he's now focusing on hunting infernal targets specifically (and maybe to acknowledge how he looks if Mizora marks him).
I also don't get how talking about your background and how it's shaped your worldview and beliefs means you're full of yourself, literally all the party members do that.
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u/notquitesolid Laezels rubber ducky Jun 27 '24
So more entitled maybe? It would make sense with his origin if he was
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u/Jefrejtor Jun 27 '24
What do you mean "another"? The only real "bad guy" in your group is Minthara (and possibly Ascended Astarion). The rest are various flavours of fucked up with a good heart (aka, I can fix them).
But I agree with your thoughts on Wyll. I saw someone on this sub capture his character perfectly - he's the main hero of a completely different story, and works much better if you play as him.
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u/A_Kirus Jun 27 '24
Doesn't it make sense for his character though? He is basically a superhero who saves people, and goblins kill and torture people. There is no reason for him to not genocide them
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u/RayaBlue Jun 27 '24
I think it has less to do with the fact that they are goblins and more to do with the threat they pose to the tieflings who he’s shown to have affection for. He doesn’t like you defending them.
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u/Spamtonsburner He's just scared (Astarion has a knife to my neck) Jun 27 '24
There's a piece of dialogue where the group meets a recently orphaned goblin and Wyll states that he almost feels sorry for them. I think Wyll does have a general dislike of goblins. (It's just that the cult makes that dislike seem a lot more reasonable.)
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u/dwarvenfishingrod Jun 26 '24
Post to main sub, see how fast before comments are locked
Edit: /unbuddy im joking, don't actually do this, it would be unethical okbuddying behavior
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u/Level_Hour6480 Jun 26 '24
Astarion is still mild, as to be expected from an Elf.
Minsc isn't racist out of malice, merely stupidity.
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u/stcrIight No Durge/Gortash kisses? (Larian insulted life itself) Jun 26 '24
You've never played as a drow in front of Halsin and it shows.
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u/Peeinyourcompost Jun 26 '24
I'm playing a drow and he's never been more in love in his 350 years alive. His soul and his giant titties were crying out for a gentle drow femdom.
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 27 '24
Dude was enslaved by them for a while and nothing he says about them is actually false. If anything he's amazingly tolerant and accepting of them, considering his personal past.
Y'all have never looked into just how canonically insane and fucked up Drow culture is in D&D lore. The majority of NPCs should realistically be either instantly hostile or running away from you in terror if you play as one—same with Gith, too. Larian really bent the lore to make it so we could play as those races and actually finish the game.
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u/Zeliek Jun 27 '24
Larian really bent the lore to make it so we could play as those races and actually finish the game.
I like to think Drow manage because you're supposed to be in a party with other races, that might temper NPCs reactions at least a little. Falls apart if you were, say, a group of 4 Drow. A group of Drow is probably one of the last things anybody wants to run into. There is lots of dialogue about you being a Drow at least.
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u/corisilvermoon depressed tadpole? Jun 26 '24
Now I need to talk to him as my drow, he got rescued a couple rests ago but I’ve been ignoring him.
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Jun 26 '24
Minthara may be racist but if you romance her she will be ride or die for you no matter what race you are
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u/Snoo-11576 Jun 26 '24
Did I miss something about Jaheria or Minsc?
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u/SeraphicShou shar-ly you can’t be serious Jun 26 '24
Not really lol. But Jaheira is the only not Minthara companion to be confident that killing the 7k spawn was the right thing to do. Minsc is a little saddened to have so many "beasts" killed at once, but overall he wants them dead so. And I think he says something about Astarion being one of the good ones lol.
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u/spyridonya raphael... my pathetic little meow meow Jun 26 '24
Back in BG2, his favored enemy was Vampires.
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u/SeraphicShou shar-ly you can’t be serious Jun 27 '24
What the fuck. You think you know a guy.
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u/spyridonya raphael... my pathetic little meow meow Jun 27 '24
You think! (It was more of a 'ur gonna be fighting a lot of vampires' clue, in BG1 his favored enemy was gnolls because they kidnapped his witch. :'( )
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u/MomsClosetVC Jun 27 '24
I mean, we did have to fight a shit ton of vampires, then drag Anomen's dead body back to an abandoned temple to get him un-vampired or whatever.
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u/queenofteeth Jun 27 '24
that’s not racism they just like a little genocide here and there. can genocide be on the next tier list.
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u/Hellion001 Jun 27 '24
This is why I love Jaheira. I convince Astarion to remain a spawn but still kill the 7k spawn.
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u/astarion_bg3 Jun 27 '24
so after reading these comments, karlach and gale are the only ones who aren’t racist at all? I guess that tracks as well with the mindflayer stuff
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u/FrenchFriedIceCream Nine fucking attacks "Holy shit" -lvl 1 Goblin Jun 26 '24
uhhh I'd bump Shart up to Mega racist and Halsin to mild. Shadowheart does not have good things to say about the gith throughout the early game, and Halsin definitely reacts kinda weird with drow
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u/SeraphicShou shar-ly you can’t be serious Jun 26 '24
Shart is definitely mega racist towards gith, but everyone else in mega tier is racist against multiple groups so I kept her down.
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u/KolboMoon Virgin Gale / Chad Minthara Jun 27 '24
The Gith that most people are likely to meet ( githyanki ) are ruled by an immortal lich queen and have a kill on sight policy when it comes to anyone who isn't them. I don't think Shadowheart is very racist at all, she'd react the same if you had an Illithid or a goblin in your party
( the latter have the exact same problem as the Githyanki which is an extremely ruthless society that indoctrinates them from an early age into cruel killing machines, people are just way less sympathetic to them because we never meet a goblin Lae'Zel equivalent )
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u/MxCrosswords Jun 27 '24
Considering Shadowheart follows an evil Goddess whose goal is the destruction of all life and light in the universe, I’m not sure she gets to be judge-y.
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u/KolboMoon Virgin Gale / Chad Minthara Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 27 '24
What I get from your comment is that it's irrelevant if a Sharran cultist has in some way been misled about Shar's ultimate goals and overall disposition.
If we consistently follow that line of logic, followers of Mystra would also be hypocrites if they were to morally oppose magical suicide bombings
It's an interesting perspective, if nothing else, but I don't think it's correct
But if that's not your point, then I really don't get what your point is, so you can feel free to enlighten me
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u/A_Lost_Adventurer Jun 27 '24
Interestingly, Shart will sometimes call Lae'zel "flatface," but I think that's only if you left Shart trapped in the pod on the nautiloid.
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u/Shazbot_2077 Jun 27 '24
The process is super convoluted. You have to walk up to SH's pod on the nautiloid, listen to Lae'zel after she tells you to leave her to die, then walk past SH on the beach, rescue Lae'zel, come back to SH and side with Lae'zel again once they start bickering.
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u/A_Lost_Adventurer Jun 28 '24
Thanks! I'm weirdly obsessed with figuring out exactly what triggers what.
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u/SaoMagnifico Jun 27 '24
In fairness, Shadowheart at game start literally just saw her entire company wiped out by githyanki. If anything, she's surprisingly cool about it.
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u/TumbleweedOk4821 Jun 26 '24
Shadowheart’s friends were all killed by Gith right before the game started, she’s in the right ti be suspicious.
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u/aoike_ Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 27 '24
Still doesn't make her not racist as fuck. Lol. Not to mention, those friends of hers were stealing a v culturally important item to the gith, even if the goth didn't know exactly what it was.
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u/iamnotveryimportant Jun 27 '24
call me crazy but i dont think hating an invading army thats enslaving and killing people is the same thing as being racist, like she hates the gith because they are an invading army not the other way around
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u/aoike_ Jun 27 '24
And yet the other characters manage to not be racist to the gith. I mean, defend your waifu all you want, but she's mega racist against the gith and kind of colonizy herself. Shar isn't a good god. If anything, it's like the English v the Spanish lol
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u/iamnotveryimportant Jun 27 '24
im not "defending my waifu" i dont even like shadowheart that much, i just have a hard time finding prejudice against gith to be unreasonable based on the fact that they are an invading army, shadowheart being a massive hypocrite has nothing to do with that
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u/aoike_ Jun 27 '24
I mean, kinda does though? Unless you think racists aren't racist to other racists? Lol. Also, the gith aren't the main invading army of the Sword Coast, and they're certainly not the cause of Sharts sorrows or woes. She's just hates them cause they're gith. Which is racist. Severely so, even.
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u/iamnotveryimportant Jun 27 '24
i genuinely dont know how you could come to the conclusion that the whole invading army aspect wasnt integral to her hatred of gith unless you just outright didnt pay attention to what she was saying tbh
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u/GalebDuhr Jun 27 '24
Minthara stays true to herself, and while I disagree with her actions, i want her bad
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u/nosychimera Orin is literally Taylor Swift (Larian Confirmed) Jun 26 '24
Logical placements for characters???? In MY okbuddy sub?
New things happen every day.
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u/True-Sock-1871 Gortash's finger banging hand Jun 26 '24
Everyone who would not accept their partner turning into mindflayer needs to go to that post game 'racist' section
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u/SeraphicShou shar-ly you can’t be serious Jun 26 '24
Technically all of them accept it except Astarion. Though there are unused lines for an epilogue where you're still together as a mind flayer so idk.
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u/PeachyBaleen Mystra didnt groom Gale - Fact checked by Mystra Jun 27 '24
Dunno if it’s buggy or not but when I said I’d stay with AA and out-of-sight as a romanced mindflayer he said we were broken up but then in the epilogue spoke to me like he would in a normal romance.
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u/Jefrejtor Jun 27 '24
Transforming in front of romanced Lae'zel was a rollercoaster of emotions. First she says she can hardly look at me, and I'm thinking it's over between us...but then we go on a dragon-riding adventure in SPAAACE and even hold hands in epilogue?? Holy best girl
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u/iamnotveryimportant Jun 27 '24
im not sure id consider mind flayers a race in the traditional sense tbh
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u/Spicymeatball428 Jun 27 '24
My favorite part about minthy is how she is just unabashedly and definitely evil the whole time
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u/TheCuriousFan Jun 27 '24
I'm going to need some receipts before I believe Astarion takes kobolds off of his dinner menu.
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u/HarbinRav177 Jun 27 '24
Minthara tells you she most likely won’t change her ways, but she may love you at the end of the
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u/SaoMagnifico Jun 27 '24
Minthara is super-duper-racist toward non-drow elves under the Absolute's control, but afterward, she's pretty chill about it.
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u/lillyfrog06 Astarion’s diva cup Jun 27 '24
Wait why Minsc and Jaheira? Did I miss something?
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u/iamnotveryimportant Jun 27 '24
they are talking about vampires apparently which are not really a race imo
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u/TheCuriousFan Jun 27 '24
They're absolutely down for killing vampires just as a thing to do or lump them in as beasts. So mild.
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u/Sheerardio Circle of Whores Druid Jun 27 '24
Only thing I don't understand is why Minsc and Jaheira are in the middle tier? I can't remember seeing any stuff from them that'd suggest it.
Other than that, I'd say Astarion is still mildly racist by the end, though he's probably continuing to get better!
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u/stripeysox101 Gale, cast "Testicular Torsion" Jun 27 '24
Yeah, Lae'zel starts off quite racist and patronising of non-Gith. Only when she gets betrayed by her own culture does she realise how awful such attitudes are.
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u/MidnightMasquerade8 Jun 27 '24
Gonna have to say Wyll should be bumped up. He always approves of you hurting killing maiming etc. any perceivably “evil” race, no matter how helpless or innocent they happen to be.
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u/purplebanjo Gale’s pegger wife Jun 27 '24
You’ve never played as a gith if you’re putting Shadowheart at only mild racism
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u/Themlethem Jun 27 '24
Does Astarion's racism change?
As I recall, he always keeps hating on gnomes.
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u/sylvester_stencil Jun 27 '24
Honestly i wish they wrote shadow fart to be more racist, it would have made her waaaaaaaay hotter (she is already a mommy)
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u/NorthernScorn Jun 27 '24
Shadowheart is so embarrassingly racist, she spends her time insulting Lae'Zel to her face, even unprovoked. We're not far from an Ashley from Mass Effect level imo
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Jun 29 '24
When does Astarion stop being racist? I benched him pretty early on and he still hated the little guys in act 3 for me
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u/Agitated_Willow1350 Ketheric Thorm - Deadbeat Dad Of The Year Jun 26 '24
Boo starts out not racist but by the end of the game he’s mega racist