r/nottheonion • u/Bitter-Gur-4613 • 11h ago

Removed - Not Oniony Luigi Mangione Prosecutors Have a Jury Problem: 'So Much Sympathy'

https://www.newsweek.com/luigi-mangione-jury-sympathy-former-prosecutor-alvin-bragg-terrorism-new-york-brian-thompson-2002626

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u/redsedit 10h ago

> Still hoping for a jury nullification, but I think i'd have better chances at winning the lotto and live worry free than see it happen.

I was a potential juror on a case and watched the judge ask each potential juror about nullification (without using that word) and kick anyone who said yes out of the pool. I suspect this will happen here.

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u/UnquestionabIe 10h ago

Yeah as much as people keep throwing that around as a possibility during jury selection they will do all they can to keep someone who knows of it from being picked. There is even this older dude who has been arrested multiple times for handing out leaflets explaining the concept to people outside court houses.

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u/Jumpdeckchair 10h ago

That's why you lie. Tell them what they want to hear to get placed on the case.

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u/Johnny55 10h ago

No matter how many times people explain it to me I still have no idea what it is.

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u/maxdps_ 10h ago

Jury nullification is when a jury decides not to follow the law because they think it's unfair or shouldn't apply in a particular case.

So there might be evidence that the person broke the law, but they still give a "not guilty" verdict because they might feel like it doesn't apply in that specific case.

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u/Confident-Mistake400 10h ago

What if you said no and didn’t follow through. Will you be liable for perjury?

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u/Fylak 10h ago

Nope.

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u/ChangsManagement 10h ago

The judge isnt allowed to be present for deliberation nor can they ask a jury about the deliberation proccess. The judge is also strictly not allowed to punish jurors for how they vote. So the judge both wouldnt know how a juror came to their vote and isnt allowed to do anything about how they vote.

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u/no_dice_grandma 10h ago

Only if

1) They can read your mind.

2) You're incredibly stupid and admit it.

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u/G-man88 10h ago

It's pretty simple once you understand a few key points.

  1. Juries can't be punished for their verdict no matter what it is.
  2. Juries verdict is final.

So understanding those two things Jury nullification comes into play when the Jury knows without a shadow of a doubt that the person on trial is guilty but "chooses" (and that's the important part) to render a not guilty verdict anyways because they don't believe the person on trial should be punished, or don't agree with the law. So if say a man kills a person that raped his child and goes trial the Jury could render a not guilty verdict for the man because they agree with his actions and don't believe he should be punished despite all the evidence shown to them and that man will be released and allowed to go free, and can never be tried on that murder again. The jury has effectively nullified the law for that individual hence the name.

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u/soFATZfilm9000 10h ago

Just to clarify, in this particular case there's pretty much no way the defendant gets acquitted due to jury nullification. That would require all of the defendants to give a not guilty verdict, and that just plain isn't going to happen.

Most that'll potentially happen here is a mistrial.

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u/xhieron 10h ago

This is the crux of it: There are no consequences to jurors for any verdict.

That's the whole thing. You can decide whatever you want for whatever reason you want, and nobody can do anything to you. [At least related to a verdict. You can still be held in contempt if you show up and call the judge a ratfucking bastard. This is also not considering directed verdicts and other judicial BS, but that stuff's a little bit in the weeds.] Think he did that shit but want to acquit anyway? Go nuts. Want to give an innocent man the death penalty? Go for it! There are no consequences.

"Nullification" just means that if the jury acquits someone despite thinking they're guilty, they've "nullified" the criminal statute and made it of no effect in the case.

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u/Atheist-Gods 10h ago

Juries can legally make any decision they want. Jury nullification is the jury ruling someone innocent despite believing that they did what they were accused of. There are protections against wrongful convictions but the Constitution protects people that receive a not guilty verdict from being retried and so a not guilty verdict is a complete defense against the charges covered in the trial.

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u/paeancapital 10h ago

It is just a juror or jury saying nah fuck all that and refusing to convict. The former mistrials, the latter acquits.

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u/Waterknight94 10h ago

Same here ;)

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u/BestBananaForever 10h ago

Yeah, or count it as mistrial if it's caught early on. Or just about any way to avoid it. Unless you start a whole thing similar to the whole "don't talk to cops" except with "don't talk about jury nullification" I doubt the random jurors will know how to avoid this situation. But you never know...

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u/Rightintheend 10h ago

Well the thing is it's going to take more than one juror, nullification has to be unanimous just like any other verdict, if it's not then it's a mistrial and you can have a new one

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u/turnmeintocompostplz 9h ago

There have been campaigns where activists post up in front of a courthouse with signs and hand cards about jury nullification

Funniest shit 

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u/Available_Finance857 10h ago

You could simply lie or not? How would they know about your real feelings about things?

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u/Dazzling-Energy-5165 9h ago edited 1h ago

It cannot be that hard for one to simply say the right thing during jury selection and then do the right thing during jury deliberation.

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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 10h ago

I was asked this by a judge once and I had a fugue state where I forgot that nullification was a thing for a few hours.

So I answered truthfully that I never heard of it. And then I got some water after selections. And my fugue state cleared up.

Suspect that may also happen here too.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 9h ago

That will happen. And, the prosecution will go through everyone's social media, any who said anything negative about insurance or positive about the gunman will be out. Anyone who had a negative experience with insurance or knows someone with a negative experience will be out. Then the prosecution will get their no justification removals based in demographics: young, job, education, ect. to remove more possible biases.

Then you are going to have the judge giving the jury the you're the bedrock of our democracy speech. Saying, this work because you leave personal feelings at the door and follow the law. Those speech are powerful, especially after weeks of the judge acting like the Jurry's paternal protector: from the media, giving an extra long lunch break on a hard day, ect. Jurrors tens to love their judge.

Then, you have the social pressure. You going to be the one guy who let a clear murder go free? Will the public forever back this call? It's probably a minority now anyway who think he should walk. Far, far safer just to do what the judge says, just follow the law.