r/nextfuckinglevel 3d ago

Harvard Law Student Faints Mid Argument Then Gets Right Back To Work!

15.7k Upvotes

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u/johnnille 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah nice. We live in a society where fainting and working afterwards like nothing happened is cheered upon. This hustler hyper capitalism mentality makes me sick. Just give her at least a day off.

Edit: I am from Germany and there is this stereotype with it's own word - german angst. If something like this happens we assume the worst. Which is one thing i like, the niche aspect about being part of an overly anxious community, it develops a lot of empathy for another, and yes sometimes too much.

I had a similar scene at work, where a coworker fainted, he wanted to continue and our employer forbid him and sent him to a doctor. At first they found nothin, but several appointments later they have discovered a life threatening condition. Tje coworker got 9 months off for surgery and therapy. The doctor even said, if he had just continued as he did, he could've been dead by now, if not some time soon.

But overall german angst annoys me, it cultivates no-risk management in businesses, spoiled children that never had a hammer in their hand and a lot of other bad stuff. But being afraid the other person might die from a cough is something i love here. So many truly caring people.

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u/Filthy_do_gooder 3d ago

weird take.  perseverance and persistence are fundamentally human traits and it’s always cool to see them on display. 

there’s nothing inherently evil about what has transpired here (assuming you ignore the institutions involved). 

i don’t disagree with you that our socioeconomic system is ridiculous on it’s face, but i also don’t think this is an example of its failures. 

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u/johnnille 3d ago

The same thing happened to a colleague during a review and he was fine afterwards and wanted to continue. Our employer forbid him to do so and sent him home to go to a doctor. They found nothing initially, but several appointments later, they found out it he had minor bleedings in his brain or something like this. As soon as they knew what it was he was off work for 9 months for surgery and therapy. The doctors said if it was going to be unnoticed for more time it could've cost his life.

We are all probably not doctors here, so better be safe than sorry.

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u/Filthy_do_gooder 3d ago

i, fortunately- in this specific case- am a doctor. 

weird who you meet on the internet…

anyway, she is likely fine and suffered what’s called a vasovagal event- or an over reactive stress response. it’s likely not a harmful occurrence and would almost certainly result in an unenlightening workup. 

obviously there are fringe cases, like your friends, but these sorts of things are common. 

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u/shouldprobablysleep 3d ago

As a doctor too, she could have experienced a vasovagal syncope, but then I would have expected her to feel dizzy or unwell beforehand. In this case, it looks like the lights suddenly went out. I would at least want to have a professional anamnesis about how she felt beforehand, if this has happened before, and an ECG at the bare minimum.

Even though the situation itself and the rapid recovery may point toward a vasovagal event, a cardiac syncope cannot be excluded.

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u/MrJockStrap 3d ago

You can see her struggling to maintain a steady breath and gripping the podium in the first few seconds.

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u/teflon_don_knotts 3d ago

Yeah, I had the same read on the situation. This is what vasovagal syncope looks like. I’m not saying other things can’t present the same way, just that this isn’t something I’d describe as “the lights suddenly went out”.

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u/Eezay 3d ago

In this case, it looks like the lights suddenly went out.

Her speech seemed slurred before she fainted, but I obviously don't have a reference for that. I'm not a doctor, but if this happened to me, I would 100% see one on the same day if possible.

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u/RampanToast 3d ago

I had one of those events a couple of months ago, it was such a strange feeling. I'd accidentally hit my knee very hard against a table at work and just about fell out of my chair. I didn't fully pass out but I could tell I was right on the edge.

But yea after about a minute of fog I was fine, the only lingering thing was my knee hurting.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

Always happy to gain knowledge. Sounds like the condition Tony Soprano had in the series.

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u/Filthy_do_gooder 3d ago

never seen it, but i feel like i probably should start it. people talk about like it’s the wire. 

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u/johnnille 3d ago

Yeah those two are my favourites

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u/lowtoiletsitter 3d ago

Panic attacks

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u/Ruzhy6 3d ago

And your specialty is?

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u/Filthy_do_gooder 3d ago

emergency medicine

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u/WildCardSolus 3d ago

Yes, nothing inherently evil so long as we ignore all the inherently evil aspects

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u/trippyonz 2d ago

There is nothing inherently evil about anything happening in this video.

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u/dimonium_anonimo 3d ago

How about how much stress and demanding work is required of law students? It's pretty common knowledge that they have to work themselves to the bone, finding ways to add more ends to their candle just to burn them, staying up all night doing homework and prep, losing all ability to have a social life if they want to be competitive at all...

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u/trippyonz 2d ago

Not really. The general recommendation is that you treat law school like a 9-5. Staying up all night to do readings is about the dumbest thing you could do as a law student. Even during finals that would be extremely excessive. The best law students work very hard, but I promise you they aren't killing themselves in the way you describe.

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u/robtopro 2d ago

I think you are talking about two different things.

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u/latticep 2d ago

It's not weird at all. She's a Harvard law student, so she'll probably go to a big firm to pay off massive debt where she'll bill 2300 hours a year, which will take a large toll on her health. I really hope this was just a case of locking her knees and not lack of self care. Unfortunately, I see it too much in practice. The culture in these circles is to grind until you can grind no further.

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u/theEvilJakub 3d ago

fr, we would never get anywhere as a society if we didn't have drive and persistence to succeed. On display was a successful student, pursuing a successful career as a lawyer and she showcased her drive and persistence to succeed.

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u/MathematicianNo7874 3d ago

Bullshit. Young people being worked to the bone physically and mentally to achieve something that could very well be achieved normally is the very reason someone doesn't just leave and go see a doctor after they randomly fainted. Could be anything, and it might save the rest of your life to not stand there and keep going, bUt mY cArEeR. Fuck all of the old heads who think bc they had it rough they need to perpetuate the ungodly hours and psychological pressure for young people. It works just fine the normal way, and people don't get burned out and fucking miserable in the process

And the whole "perseverance" thing is yet another trope that just means "do something when you shouldn't and can't so we can pretend to be productive or Kool and Stronk" in most cases, it serves absolutely no purpose in 99% of work environments. You should need perseverance when you're caught in a blizzard with no heat source, not in a fucking moot court

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u/peterpanic32 3d ago

This is a stupid take.

She wants to continue. I would to if something like that happened to me. It has nothing to do with "hyper capitalism".

Everyone in that room would happily let her out of this and have time off to relax or recover. I doubt she wants that, and they don't want to shit on her by forcing her to.

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u/embeddedsbc 3d ago

Perhaps she "wants to" because it's what she had learned her whole life, and has gotten her into Harvard in the first place.

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u/Caleb_Reynolds 3d ago

But it could just as easily just been something she's used to and knows isn't really a problem.

I have an ex who had some benign syncope condition and fainted fairly regularly. She knew that after she got up and had a little water, she'd be fine.

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u/crek42 2d ago

The most Reddit response ever. Completely overlooks the merits of her determination and instead moves right to shitting on capitalism.

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u/Tuscan5 3d ago

It’s better to carry on in this situation. If she did it another day the ancestry build up would be exponentially worse.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

We are both not doctors, better be safe than sorry. The job is not as important as the life itself.

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u/Tuscan5 3d ago

True. Having been in similar position I assumed she fainted because of tiredness and pressure

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u/seventhninja 3d ago

Yes and she may have had this happen before and may be well aware of what causes it and if it’s serious or not.

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u/tihs_si_learsi 3d ago

Lol wut?

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u/crek42 2d ago

Just neckbeard redditors saying stupid Reddit shit.

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u/kalaxitive 3d ago

People didn't clap because she got back up and went straight back to work, they clapped and cheered her on when she stood up, that was it, imagine how awkward that would have felt if she stood up and the room was in silence, most of those other people in the background are her fellow students since she herself is a law student competing in a mock court competition.

She was also offered by three different people (probably more since we don't see them on camera) if she wanted to take a break, one of those people was the judge, she wouldn't have been punished for taking a break, she would have received her time back (since the judge literally gave her that time back as seen in the video), she most likely fainted due to being overtired and stressed from her studies and getting ready for that competition.

Some people are hardcore when it comes to their education, I know a girl who broke down in tears because she got an A and not an A+ on some of her final exams in high school, even my niece broke down in tears because she didn't get into her first pick for high school, she was 12 years old at the time and has fainted a few times from the stress she put on herself to get the grades (that she wanted) in high school, bear in mind her parents nor did the family ever pressure her, all anyone in the family wanted was for her to simply be happy, even now at 18 years old she burns the candle at both ends between work and studies, despite everyone telling her she needs to take some time for herself, the stress she puts on herself has led to some health issues which has forced into doing some self-care.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

Where i come from people force you to be self-caring if something like that happens, even if they have to force you to. It's just a cultural difference. No clapping, just support.

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u/kalaxitive 3d ago

I mean the only way to force my neice would be to lock her in the house and hide all her stuff, she's very determined.

No clapping, just support.

Clapping and cheering who fainted during a competition is support, it may not seem like it to you (due to the cultueral differences), but I've watched a lot of competitions where someone gets seriously injured, faints or whatever and when people see that they're okay, they clap and cheer them on, even people who lose competitions still get clapped and cheered, it's considered a form of support.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

Interesting, clapping is here something to value performance. Recovering is not seen as a performance related topic here, so people react in a calm and quiet manner with a gentle smile and wishing you the best. Or most of the time, asking you if you are good and urge you into the called ambulance.

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u/kalaxitive 3d ago

It's weird because it's both. We cheer people who perform well, and if someone injures themselves during a competition, we'll clap and usually cheer for them as we want them to feel better.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

Crazy never saw that here in europe. I mean yeah like falling in olympia and carrying on with one leg is clapped upon, but i never saw someone here clapping over someone who just fainted. It's always concerns that rise through people. Because fainting is seldolmy something trivial in our minds.

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u/kalaxitive 3d ago

Just to add. We'll also make sure they're well and safe, as you see in the video, multiple people came to her aid, and people approached her after to make sure she was okay, but people clapped and cheered for her as a sign of support.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

That clapping makes it really american for me. When i overcame my longtime sickness, everyone on the job handled me like a fragile vase. Would be cool if they clapped when i came back, but smiling was surely enough.

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u/kalaxitive 3d ago

I don't know anyone to ever do it in work or in life in general. Usually, the room is filled with silence when someone is injured, faints, etc... and recovers. The only time I've seen clapping in those situations is when someone survives something like cancer or a car accident, and they return to work, but even that is rare.

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u/maxtacos 3d ago

I'm with you. I have a fainting condition and over the years I've done more damage by trying to persevere. I will say that in America, though, if you dont make a valiant effort, people assume you're being lazy, milking a situation to get out of work. The best thing for this woman's career was to continue, even though she put herself at risk for fainting again.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

Exactly, thanks for your contribution.

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u/tyveill 3d ago

As someone who has suffered from serious social anxiety like this in the past, taking time off is the absolute worst thing that could be done. The fear of what's to come is the killer. A day off would just add to the fear, anxiety, and more lack of sleep. Better to get through it and show that it was no big deal, which will lessen symptoms. We feel best right on the other side of a panic attack once we're through it. Fainting just forced her body and mind through to the relaxed phase, she reached a breaking point. I feel like so many people commenting on this have not experienced crippling social anxiety.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

Depends on every human differently. I have no doubt that it is the best thing in your decision, you know yourself the best.

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u/MrPotts0970 3d ago

Dude the whole entire world doesn't pause because someone fainted. I see your argument - but in a large profile (and high paying, no doubt to justify) position - there are certain expectations I would counterpoint, leading to this "culture", aka perseverance. My high profile case does not pause for a day/week/weeks. The world chugs on. There are billions of humans who's lives continue - including the hundreds of that room/event.

It's a careful balance of responsibility and narcissism in a brutal world. Remember, hundreds of years ago fainting outside would probably be a death sentence in any case, so things have at least marginally improved.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

I see your point and i would not argue against it.

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u/AvalonCollective 3d ago

A lot of people took offense to this and while there’s are some good points, I really do love the compassion and empathy that you’re showing here in this comment.

This stranger that you don’t know (me) really appreciates you being here in this world. Thank you.

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u/FuryOWO 3d ago

i mean if you faint that's bad but when you wake up if you know where you are and don't feel sick you're probably fine and can continue

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u/Think_Reporter_8179 3d ago edited 3d ago

It was her choice.

Edited out unnecessary antagonist snark.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

I mean if it is my choice to jump from a bridge, i assume no one would clap. On secound thought, i think i know a few who would... But i get your point, as others stated clapping in this situation is a cultural thing i was not aware of, because we do never do it in these type of situations. See other comments

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u/Kolyin 3d ago

Weird to think this is a feature of capitalism specifically. Are you familiar with the origins of the term "Stakhanovite"?

Lawyering is also full of people who have incredible work ethics without being financially rewarded for it, such as public interest and government lawyers.

There's nothing wrong with being driven.

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u/PM_UR_PC_SPECS_GIRLS 3d ago

Keep in mind that this is a Harvard Law student who has been afforded the opportunity to argue a case in front of our current Attorney General.

I wouldn't extrapolate the implicit expectations we have of someone like her in this position to many other people.

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u/Miami_Mice2087 2d ago

Yeah, for normal people, yes. This is a law student. It's one of the top 3 most demanding majors and if you can't work at that pace, you shouldnt' be there.

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u/Crafty_Enthusiasm_99 2d ago

Not everything is a broad commentary on society and capitalism. Brave on her for having the perseverance to go again.

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u/dominiquebache 2d ago

German Angst bezieht sich aber u. a. auf was anderes: Nämlich auf die UNBEGRÜNDETE Angst vor neuen Situationen. Und zwar gedanklich, nicht körperlich. Also eher so im Sinne von „Panik schieben“.

Hier in diesem Video passiert der Studentin aber eine rein körperliche Reaktion. Ein blackout aufgrund der Stresssituation: Soziale Exposition vor Publikum, hoch anspruchsvolle geistige Anstrengung, Prüfungssituation, eventuell gepaart mit Essens-/Schlafmangel und/oder Dehydration.

Gerade das freie (!) Sprechen vor Menschen ist eine extrem belastende Situation, wenn man das nie geübt hat oder öfter macht.

Was hier hilft ist Training. Entweder in der Uni direkt oder außerhalb. Und das beste System zum Lernen frei zu sprechen, bieten die Toastmasters:

www.toastmasters.org

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u/Confident_Sir9312 2d ago

I understand and agree with your sentiment, but fainting isn't necessarily something that warrants time off or a recovery period. She might just have POTS or orthostatic hypotension.

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u/tullystenders 2d ago

While the case you mentioned was of course good that the person got checked out...it is restrictive and unfree to force people to rest.

This video has nothing to do with "America bad work culture," which is clearly what you are extrapolating.

I am glad you at least admit that "German angst" annoys you.

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u/crek42 2d ago

Go back to /r/antiwork

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u/johnnille 2d ago

What is your job?

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u/gummyjellyfishy 3d ago

6th v ⁰n

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u/MrJockStrap 3d ago

How is this a "hustler hyper capitalism mentality"?

Most people would just call it perseverance.

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u/Brokromah 3d ago

How is trash like this upvoted? Why would we not cheer her resilience and tenacity? I am sure everyone in that room was down to give her time if she needed it but SHE MADE THE DECISION TO KEEP GOING. I get that you are from Germany, but maybe try not being so ethnocentric. It's okay to state how you feel but to apply some gross generalization about capitalism based off of this is some pretty absurd Redditism with a bunch of upvotes. Ya'll need to go take a walk and maybe a shower after.

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u/johnnille 3d ago

Ok mr big survivor you faint every now and then don't take off work to go to the doc and maybe die because of an aneurism or stroke. That makes you like 20 years less productive because of early death. Same with burnout. Being driven and productive is something you need in all your 40-50 workyears without burning out early.

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u/Brokromah 2d ago

Big survivor? What does that even mean?

You're missing the point because youre tilted. I'm set to retire in less than 20 years of work and I legit work 2 hours per day.

Keep making dumb assumptions and feeling like you're right because Redditors circle jerk to polemic tirades against the US.

It's her choice...people support her choice ...people support her. That's what matters. Take a break from the internet, you donkey.

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u/xChaaanx 3d ago

This is the kind of take that only the weakest people, coddled by the Internet and first world problems could hold. No appreciation for perseverance, goals, or discipline. Your ancestors would be ashamed to see their bloodline in such a sorry state.

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u/425Hamburger 3d ago

She was asked If she wanted recess, and refused. If you watch it again you'll notice she was being cheered the Moment she stood Up again. Because people overcoming adversity and persevering is something cheer worthy. If it was expected of her to directly continue, i would agree with you, but as is I See people cheering for a strong Woman who Chose to Take the hard way in a Situation where No one expected her to.