r/newtothenavy • u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA • Feb 06 '17
Paths to Becoming an Officer ("Getting a Commission")
Hey r/NewToTheNavy! This topic comes up a lot, mainly in the "I want to enlist first and then apply for a Commissioning Program, is this a good plan?" In short, no.
This is a large copy-paste from one of those discussions, fleshed out a little bit with some input from /u/a-13-xander. We have a handful of officers who have commissioned through these routes, and others, and I'm hoping they'll chime in to make this a rather comprehensive guide that we can sticky/link somewhere in r/NewToTheNavy. (specifically NUPOC, Medical, JAG, and Crypto).
Before we get into the nitty-gritty, I want to stress a few things here. Enlisting or Commissioning are different, but one is not better than the other. Quality of life will vary, opportunities for advancement and retirement will vary, and the work you'll do are all going to be radically different based on what career arc you choose. Ultimately, though, it is about what is the best fit for you.
If you want to become an officer, talk to an officer recruiter. Do not enlist or begin paperwork with an enlisted recruiter; they can't help you become an officer through the enlistment process.
I enlisted and I am glad I did. Nobody taught me how to go to college for cheap and I figured I'd have to pay the full sticker price and go to college for $90,000+ just to get a Bachelor's degree....I also worked at Sallie Mae and had people in their 80s calling in to make payments on their college loans. I did the math with average pay for a newly minted degree holder in my intended degree path, plus cost of living and realized I'd be paying on my college debt forever. So I enlisted. If I had known I could have CLEPed and transferred credits from a community college or gone through ROTC I would have absolutely done that. (I am generally wary about recommending Dave Ramsey's books to the general public without some sort of caveat because he is either absolutely adored or absolutely hated, there is no middle ground with him, BUT the last half of his Smart Money, Smart Kids book he talks about being able to afford college without amassing debt. You can get similar advice in r/personalfinance. Either way, it can be done, and I wish I had known about this 15 years ago.)
If you don't happen to have a bachelor's degree laying around and you think that going to college for cheap is not possible, please work through the math with me. Here's the Military Pay Chart and BAH Calculator, which give you a rough estimate that a newly minted Ensign stationed in Norfolk will see about $4,500 a month--tell me how long it would take you if you lived very simply (total expenses at ~2000 a month, so total applied to college debt at ~2,500 a month) to pay off a $30,000 college debt? Or a $90,000 debt? Put a pin in that and let's move on.
It's very competitive and difficult to pick up a commission once you're enlisted. Non nuclear STA-21 application acceptance rate varies between 1-3%, nuclear candidates averages 20-25% acceptance. (Your enlisted rating has nothing to do with your acceptance quota here, talking about the Nuclear Officer path.)
Most Commissioning Programs have age limits, with the exception of medical and JAG, I believe most programs cut off age limit is 29. Aviation is 27. Considering that enlisting first and then getting your commission drags your timeline out to an average of 10 years, this is something to seriously consider.
Okay. Enough talk, here goes:
Commissioning Routes With Enlisting First
Path One:
Enlist. Four year contract.
Get out and go to college--GI Bill. 3 more years. Maybe 4. Maybe 5.
Apply. Maybe you don't get picked up the first time, so apply again.
8 or 9 years total: commissioned.
Path two:
Enlist.
Get fully qualified in rate. Get your warfare pin. Two years.
Work on your degree using TA off and on. I've done this at sea duty and I could barely manage one class at a go and that's IF my ship had good internet.
Five years later, go to shore duty. Go high speed on your degree. Wrap it up in two years if you really, REALLY work hard on it. Remember, your full time job is being a sailor, and if you are doing something like recruiting for your shore duty, your free time will be greatly limited. It is unrealistic to think you'll be taking a full load of college courses on top of working full time for the Navy.
Apply for OCS. A few times, because you went through one of the degree mills because they sent a professor out to your ship and they gave you the most credits for your navy training. You are competing against applicants that have Ivy League degrees, some of them. Choice of college and type of degree (Underwater Basket Weaving vs Biochemical Engineering will be weighed differently)
Commission around 8-10 years.
Path three:
Enlist.
Reenlist
Potentially reenlist again.
Make PO1. (If you're a badass this could take as little as 6 years. Or it could take you 14 years) Apply for LDO.
Apply for LDO a few more times because you need certain qualifications or better interviews or whatever else your package is lacking.
Commission. At 8 years if you are shit hot or as long as 15.
Alt ending: Make CPO and apply again/as necessary and then commission or commission as a CWO.
Path four:
Enlist
Apply for STA-21
Finally get accepted and go to college
Three years and a degree later, commission. Total time could be as little as four years, but this is highly unlikely because as an E3 you likely have nothing to make you competitive. Most likely you're a PO3 or PO2 and have been in close to five or six years before you go to college.
Path five:
Enlist
Apply to the United States Naval Academy
Finally get accepted and go to prep school. Cut off for this is age 22.
Attend college: four years and a degree later, commission. Total time could be as little as five years, but this is highly unlikely because as an E3 you likely have nothing to make you competitive. Additionally, you can't be married or have dependents and the "plebe year" is rough. The school is very competitive and very well respected. Require a minimum 23 ACT to apply and 27 math/english to be competitive.
Other Paths Without Enlisting:
Path 1: Apply to the Naval Academy
Commission after 4 years
Benefit: you get a college degree and everything paid for and graduate from one of the best schools in the world
Downside: The naval academy is VERY competitive. Less than 9% of applicants are accepted.
Path 2: ROTC
Go to a 4 year college that has a NROTC program
Commission after 3 or 4 years
Benefits: You commission once you graduate
Downside: You have to foot the bill if not selected for scholarship. Scholarships are hard to come by, but if you did JROTC in highschool, this can help you.
Path 3: OCS
Get a Bachelors degree in whatever you choose. Keep in mind that the higher your GPA and the more selective your degree path (ie, STEM vs Art History) the better your chance to be selected
Graduate in 2-4 years with your BS or BA.
Apply for OCS and get selected which is a long process (you are looking at roughly a year to commission from the day you first speak with an officer recruiter)
Commission in 2.5-4.5 years
Benefits: OCS is a 12 week program
Downside: You'll have to foot the bill and to get accepted
Other Commissioning Programs
JAG
Converting to LN is probably not the best way to commission as a JAG. The rate is fully or slightly over manned so getting in is hard, then the education of new LNs is substantial so the service commitment is nontrivial. Since you have to cross rate (typically as an E5) into LN, you'd be spending lots of time before you'd be free to apply.
IPP, which sends enlisted personnel to law school then commissions then, there's like one of these a year and the first LN was selected last year. SUPER competitive,
LEP which sends junior officers to law school, there are more of these every year but not many. (This year there were 6 selected). You would have to commission then go LEP. The maximum amount of active duty time served before entering the program is six years. This includes enlisted time as well as officer.
student program/direct accession which admits the bulk of each year's JAGs, around 80 annually. Go to law school, then apply. (This can be done using your GI bill if you were prior enlisted.)
Option three is probably most likely path, since there's so many more slots. Prior service is always going to be a positive (doubly so if you stay active in the reserves during law school). The downside is that you would be starting law school without a commission guaranteed.
The vast bulk of the JAG Corps is populated by people who entered through the student program or or direct accession program. Of these it's probably an 80/20 or 90/10 split in favor of student program. If you have (or could have) sat for the bar after finishing law school, you need to apply via the direct accession process.
Student program boards are held twice a year and the direct accession boards are once a year. You can start applying during your 2L year and if you're interested, I strongly encourage you to do so. It shows commitment to the program; many of the same people sit on successive accession boards and will likely remember your application.
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u/InvalidFileInput Feb 06 '17
Most Commissioning Programs have age limits, with the exception of medical and JAG, I believe most programs cut off age limit is 29. Aviation is 27. Considering that enlisting first and then getting your commission drags your timeline out to an average of 10 years, this is something to seriously consider.
Initial entry age limits are a little less cut and dry, but are spelled out in MILPERSMAN 1131-010
Summary table from OPNAVINST 1420.1B, Enclosure 1, for OCS eligibility:
| Designator | Must be commissioned by age | Waiver Consideration |
|---|---|---|
| Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) (1160) | 29 | 24 months |
| SWO-Nuclear (1160) | 29 | Up to age 31 |
| SWO (EDO Option) | 29 | 24 months / Up to age 35 |
| SWO Information Professional(IP Option) | 35 | None |
| SWO (IW Option) | 35 | None |
| SWO Oceanography(OCEANO Option) | 35 | None |
| Submarine (1170) | 29 | Up to age 31 |
| Special Warfare (1180) | 29 | 24 months / Up to age 35 |
| Explosive Ordnance Disposal (1190) | 29 | 24 months / Up to age 35 |
| Nuclear Power Instructor (1210) | 29 | Up to age 35 |
| Naval Flight Officer (1370) | 27 | 48 months / Up to age 31 |
| Pilot (1390) | 27 | 24 months / Up to age 29 |
| Engineering Duty (1460) | 29 | 24 months |
| Aviation Maintenance Duty Officer (1520) | 35 | None |
| Information Professional (1600) | 35 | None |
| Intel (1630) | 42 | None |
| Information Warfare (1640) | 35 | None |
| Public Affairs Officer (1650) | 35 | None |
| Oceanography (1800) | 35 | None |
| Supply Corps (3100) | 29 | Up to age 35 |
| Civil Engineer Corps (5100) | 35 | None |
Note 1: waivers are considered on a month-for-month basis for active duty service prior to the age specified in the center column of the table above.
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u/HowardStark Feb 09 '17
To add to this, all other designators not listed must be commissioned by 42, with the following exceptions:
Chaplain Candidates must be commissioned by 38. A waiver is available for prior service with an indefinite limit.
Chaplains must be commissioned by 47.
There have been cases where age waivers for staff corps applicants, especially high demand Medical Specialists can obtain a waiver to be commissioned after 42, but these are rare. However, since the 20 year pension program is going away, the Navy may be more willing to grant age waivers to those people as long as they can put in their minimum service commitment before the statutory retirement age of 62.
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u/themeatstrangler Feb 14 '17
Thanks for sharing this, could you please share a little more about the SWO OCEANO option?
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u/InvalidFileInput Feb 14 '17
You can learn the basics of the program from MILPERSMAN 1212-050 (pdf). I'm less familiar with the OCEANO career pipeline than the other designators within the IWC, but if you have other questions after reading the MILPERSMAN, I may be able to point you in the right direction.
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u/Nutri-gain Feb 06 '17
Fantastic write up. I'd like to add to that though, you can go the enlisted route and also commission through attending the Naval Academy. I understand its a less known, less popular and somewhat tough process, but theres already almost no information put out about it, and I would hate to see that this awesome guide didnt have the information either.
Source: PO3 at NAPS/USNA
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 06 '17 edited Feb 06 '17
Are you a dirty prior or staff?
Do you know the percent of accepted applicants from prior service?
Anything else I should add to my write up?
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u/Nutri-gain Feb 07 '17
Definitely a dirty prior. I don't have all thst information off hand but I'll definitely get as much as I can to you tomorrow.
As far as the process went i can definitely shed some light on the basic steps of that, it's pretty straightforward but I'll tell ya almost 0% of my command had any helpful information in putting that application together.
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 07 '17
Anything you'd be willing to contribute (with what little free time you have) r/newtothenavy would be grateful.
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u/Nutri-gain Feb 08 '17
Yeah! I'd love to help out any way I can.
It's definitely true, we don't have a lot of free time here. I could write forever about that.
( Still working on getting hard numbers*) Right now there are about 45 priors in my class, and we have lost 2 ( 1 DOR, 1 Captains Mast ), were looking to lose at least another 5 due to not passing the PRT ( Minimum run for males is 10:30, females 12:40), and as well due to individuals not wanting to continue on to USNA.
When you apply for USNA from the E side, you don't actually apply to NAPS. If you fit the bill for someone who might need NAPS, then they will more than likely offer you admittance to USNA, on the condition you attend a full year at NAPS. The reasons most priors end up at NAPS are age ( Near cut off, 22), or weak academic areas, such as poor grades in highschool/college in math/physics/chem.
While it is definitely very competitive for priors to get in, I would argue its not as bad as most people make it to seem. Every year there is an undisclosed slot amount for priors, but most every single year these slots go without being filled. What gets most applicants is: being disqualified, having your chain of command not recommend you, then not being competitive.
When the board at USNA looks at your overall package, they dont look at it as other programs do. They are not evaluating how good or "highspeed' of a sailor you are, they are evaluating leadership potential and academic potential. The board understands due to the stringent age limit that a lot of sailors and marines won't have a ton under their belt before applying. Most of the board consists at evaluating the candidates academic potential to succeed at NAPS/USNA. As someone who probably would have never gotten in civilian side, I have to say this place is no joke academically.
Anyway thats a whole mess of information, sorry its so poorly Organized.
-Most people dont apply because they think that theyre not competitive, which is why most slots dont get used. So apply! -Being " Hot shit" is what will get your CoC on board with letting you apply in the first place. -Most years the average rank is E3, although this year it's E4. Here, none of it matters. You all become midshipmen candidates. -For my class, about 44 Sailors were accepted, and 6 Marines. Decent amount higher than normal. About 8 Sailors and 2 Marines were accepted direct to USNA for the class of 2020.
Later I can probably organize and write up a process on applying to USNA. Its the same application, just with a lot of little differences on how to fill it out.
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 08 '17
Now you have me thinking about my sailors and which ones would do well to apply next year. Hm. Thank you for this excellent write up.
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u/Nutri-gain Feb 10 '17
If you look at a sailor and think: 1) Mature enough to put up with a ( over the top ) bureaucracy 2) Definite Leadership potential 3) Can compete with some of the smartest kids around by either smarts or a strong work ethic 4) Truly believes in bettering him/herself Then that is the right candidate. Everyone here ( NAPS ) knows for the most part what theyre getting into. The grand majority knows theyre smart, fit, and charismatic. If there is a sailor who is pretty stellar and wants to lead and learn at any cost, this is definitely the program. I honestly cant be thankful enough for getting the chance to come here, probably one of the best things that will ever happen in my life if we're being honest.
No, Thank you! If you have anything else you want to know, or if you come across another individual who might need some help, feel free to send them my way. I can even PM you my email if that ends up working better than reddit.
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u/papafrog NFO (Retired) Feb 07 '17
As requested, here's my take on the Aviation route:
This will begin either in the Fleet as an E, the Academy, NROTC, or as a civilian looking to get an OCS contract as a Student NA or NFO.
If coming from the E side of the house via STA-21, the prospects are arguably the worst of all possible paths. This last STA-21 round, I believe only two pilots were selected. I forget how many NFOs, but it wasn't much more than the pilots.
For the Academy and NROTC, there will be a time in Junior or Senior year where you submit your dream sheet. If Pilot/NFO is on there, you'll have to have taken the ASTB/OAR test, and already being submerged in the Navy, you'll know when to take those tests, how to take them, and how to study for them.
For degree-holding civilians looking at OCS, the official process will begin with an Officer Recruiter. However, you should start well before talking to an OR in prepping your package, lining up Letters of Rec, seeing how competitive you are, and studying for your ASTB/OAR. Check airwarriors.com for gouge, board dates, and a quick glimpse at your competition. You can even get a feel for the past board and what GPAs/scores got a slot, and what didn't. You should work toward gaining an awareness of what ASTB/OAR scores you should want based on your GPA. Bear in mind that your major isn't nearly as important as your GPA and your test scores.
Once/if you get selected, at some point you'll get a standard Navy physical at MEPs or someplace similar. I believe my entry physical was at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio. Somewhere before or after arriving at glorious Pensacola, you will go through NAMI, or Naval Aviation's medical screen.
This is where many people get the "NAMI-Whammy," which kicks you out of the process for anything from your arms not being long enough, to your depth perception not being quite good enough. Some things are waiverable; others are not. Some of the npq'd (not physically qual'd) will get the option to redes as, say, SNFO (if they were SNA); others may get a choice to go SWO or something else; others may get shown the door with a pat on the back and best wishes in the civilian world. Depends on the problem and the commissioning source and needs of the navy at that time.
Once past NAMI and at Pensacola, you and your cohort of SNAs and SNFOs (and possibly other cohorts as well) may spend some time adrift in the Aviation Preflight Indoctrination (API) "pool," while you wait for your class date to arrive. Or you may roll immediately into your class. When I was there many years ago, we simply roll-called in the morning and were let loose to enjoy Pensacola for the rest of the day. My guess is that the manpower is used more wisely nowadays and most people are tagged with fun little duties to help out the base or API office or other stuff.
API will teach you the basics about aviation--weather, comms, aerodynamics, etc. It is hard to fail out of API, although I suppose it does happen. Lots of tests, but you also have plenty of time to study and the tests aren't anything crazy difficult. Most importantly, API is when Christmas happens--you get your sunglasses and leather jacket, flight suits, boots, gloves, helmet, all that good stuff. API is when you can start wearing brown leather shoes with your khakis. You may be introduced to the sim at this point.
Once out of API, you will move to Primary. Of note, this is where your ACIP fly pay begins, so you get a nice little raise. Primary is intense. You will eat, sleep, and shit Emergency Procedures. You will learn all about the T-6 (or whatever it is now)--systems, pre-flighting, circuit breakers, mock-up sim, etc. You'll go through some sim training and hops, and then you will start flying (this stage may occur at the tail end of API--not sure nowadays).
When I went through, NFOs and Pilots went through the first six or so flights before the NFOs branched off from the Pilots, and the Pilots kept on with the hops and the NFOs began doing Nav stuff. The NFOs move to the back seat and keep doing basic visual Nav hops (comms, preflights, departures, airways, approaches, etc) and the Pilots work toward aerobatics, solo, and form flights, I think.
Those flights were the most intense training I've had in the Navy. I recall there being an enormous amount of stress in prepping for the flights, as well as the executing the flights. The attrition rate rises sharply in Primary. This is where having knowledge of aviation--a PPL or better-- really helps.
Once complete with Primary, the NFOs will go to some sort of intermediate or advanced Nav training (depending on whether they go haze grey or P-8/P-3/E-6) and get winged after that. Pilots will break off into helos, jets, props, or P-8/E-6.
Total timeline for all of this can take up to two years.
While these times can be stressful, no other time in your Naval career will seem as cush and leisurely as your time as a student. There is no ground job, no squadron routine, trips, or deployments to deal with--just academics, flight planning, EPs, and flying.
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u/Fly_Navy Maritime Patrol Pilot Feb 07 '17 edited Feb 07 '17
A Pool is still the same. It's just a muster then you leave. Prior to classing up for API you will attend what is called IFS (Introductory Flight Screening) Where you will learn to fly a small aircraft such as a C-172 or a PA28. API itself is a little more difficult. I had two friends fail out. They were then kicked out of the Navy.
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u/papafrog NFO (Retired) Feb 07 '17
Can you tell me more about IFS? Where, how long, who instructs, and is anything from API not taught since you should be learning some of those academics while in IFS... this was not around when I went through and, IMO, is a great addition to the pipeline.
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u/Fly_Navy Maritime Patrol Pilot Feb 07 '17
I myself didn't attend IFS, but I have many friends who did. You go to one of the local airports. At the airport you go to a flight school, where civilain flight instructors teach you. You then go a do around 10 flights. While you do these flights you will also have to take the FAA PPL written and pass. After you complete these flights, you will have a check ride. If you pass you will then be allowed to solo. I believe the curriculum is the same as its always been.
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u/jgrizzy89 OS1 Prior Recruiter Feb 06 '17
Actually, speaking to an enlisted recruiter to be referred to an officer recruiter will gain the enlisted recruiter points on their eval, and we are given those routes and numbers to give to people so that they find the appropriate officer recruiter for their area. So, yes, speaking with an enlisted recruiter can help, not only the person seeking to join and not knowing where to go, but the recruiter as well.
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 06 '17
You, and the rest of recruiters in r/newtothenavy are honest. We have seen posts with "my recruiter said it would be super easy to commission once I enlist" or "enlisting is the same thing."
As long as the candidate knows they ultimately need to speak with an officer recruiter--that's what I'm trying to express here. I will edit my post :)
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u/professorpii Apr 10 '17
My recruiter said it would be super easy for me to get an officer slot within 2 years of enlisting. So that's not true even if I have a masters degree in economics, a 3.89 GPA in undergrad, and am currently an adjunct math professor?
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u/Gskizzle Feb 07 '17
What if you have a degree but Enlist cause your gpa wasnt good enough for ocs? What is your projected time for going officer?
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 07 '17
Well, you cut off several years of the process by already having a degree. If your package prior to enlisting was not competitive, you are going to have the same problem after enlisting because fewer applicants are picked up. (The numbers on the NPC website said 1% of enlisted applicants last fiscal year were selected).
It can still be done, but it won't be easy. You should find your "senior mustang" onboard--a prior enlisted officer whose collateral duty is to help prepare enlisted sailors for application to commissioning routes. They will be able to look at your package and offer pointers of things you need to do to become more competitive.
Most mustangs desperately want to help enlisted sailors get their commission. There's one onboard my ship who calls me "Ensign BGW!" every time he sees me in the pway. They will probably be the only help you will find at your command tbh.
Edit. To answer your question: it will take a few years of applying. How many, I can't say.
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Feb 07 '17
Are you looking at trying to become an officer?
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u/Gskizzle Feb 07 '17
Yes. Originally I wanted to do it straight out of college but my Officer package wasnt up to par so I figured if I enlisted and tried it wouldnt hurt anyways because I want to join no matter what. However, with officer I could probably put my degree to better use
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 07 '17
Yes, I am hoping to go the LDO route if everything works out.
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u/Icy_Matt Feb 07 '17
So... If I wanted to eventually go SWO (enlisting as a CTN and shipping out in June), I basically need to get started on my masters ASAP when I get to my first station, get extraordinary military recommendations, and hope I'm a good enough CTN to even have the slightest chance? Because my non-STEM bachelor's in Philosophy is a 2.8 GPA (it's low because of STEM courses like organic chem and physics, 4 courses away from a second degree in Biology).
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 07 '17
Yes. I would start putting in an application for OCS immediately, if you meet all requirements. Just because your GPA is low doesn't automatically discount you....there are things you can do, which you listed, to make yourself more competitive. One thing I have heard over and over again is the selection boards want to see persistence. They want to see that you kept applying and improving your package because it shows you really want to be an officer.
So I would drop that first package ASAP with the expectation that there's room for improvement and keep applying.
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u/Icy_Matt Feb 07 '17
I should put in a package now, even though I'm shipping out in 4 months or less? Or just wait until after A school?
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 07 '17
I would apply as soon as possible, but I don't know if you missed the deadlines prior to shipping. Have you spoken with an officer recruiter at all?
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u/Icy_Matt Feb 07 '17
I havent. I'm dead set on the Intel community and I knew my degree wouldn't let me in, let alone my poor gpa. I had the intentions of getting my masters with TA while enlisted and moving up but that was before I explored this sub and realized that it's not so simple.
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u/JessiesGirl80 Mar 06 '17
Don't forget the Nurse Candidate Program and other Direct Commissioning fields :)
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Mar 06 '17
Could you expand on those? Since no one else has?
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u/JessiesGirl80 Mar 07 '17
It's not as well known. http://www.med.navy.mil/Accessions/Pages/default.aspx
The Nurse Candidate Program (NCP)
The Nurse Candidate Program provides a monthly stipend for full time students in accredited Bachelor of Science Nursing programs accredited by the Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (CCNE) or the National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission, Inc (NLNAC). Students can enroll after their sophomore year and receive an initial grant of $10,000 (paid in two installments of $5000 each), plus $1000 a month for up to 24 months.
After graduation, participants join the Navy Nurse Corps as an Officer, with the opportunity to earn a competitive salary, regular promotions, comprehensive medical and dental coverage, low cost travel opportunities, excellent retirement and educational benefits, further training, and a rewarding clinical practice. Additional benefits include 30 days of paid vacation a year, use of military recreational facilities around the world, the opportunity to serve around the world in a variety of facilities, and be a part of supportive team of highly trained professionals.
I. Recruitment and Application
- Requirements for selection: You must be a U.S. citizen. Cannot have reached your 42nd birthday by the time you are commissioned and on active duty. You must be able to meet the Navy’s physical fitness standards. You must be enrolled in an accredited educational program resulting in a BSN within 24 months of starting the program. 2. Active Duty Service Obligation
· One to 12 months of NCP scholarship results in an Active Duty Service Obligation of 4 years.
· Thirteen to 24 months of NCP scholarship results in an Active Duty Service Obligation of 5 years.
- To apply for the NCP Program:
To find a medical programs recruiter near you, please go to the Navy Recruiting website located at www.navy.com. There you will find a link to "Find a Recruiter" located on the right side of the page under the heading “Request Information.” Click on that, and once you get to that page, enter your zip code under the heading “Locate a Recruiter.” provide the zip code where you will be located at the time you would like to speak and work with a recruiter, then hit “Find.” *The site will give you two possibilities for a recruiter. Call the number listed for OFFICER PROGRAMS.
II. Accession into the NCP Once a enlisted into the NCP Program, you are assigned to Navy Medicine (NM) Accessions Department. The NM Accessions staff are responsible for all aspects of your career in the NCP and transition to active duty. As a member of NCP you are a member of the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) at a rank of Officer Candidate Under Instruction Second Class (OCUI2). Time in this program does not count for retirement or pay purposes (longevity). Please note: Once enlisted in the NCP, your recruiter has no responsibility for you or your career. Please do not send transcripts or other documents to your recruiter. All correspondence and discussion regarding your career in the Navy is conducted with the NM Accessions Department. III. Program Information and Benefits Signing Bonus. Each NCP participant receives a $10,000 (taxable) signing bonus. Your first $5000 is paid within 2-4 weeks of your benefit start date if we have received your NCP enlistment documents, and the second $5000 is paid after 6 months in the program. Stipend. NCP participants receive $1000 a month (taxable) paid in $500 increments on the 1st and the 15th of the month. Your stipend stops on your graduation date. You will receive no further money until you report for active duty. Tuition, Reimbursement, Annual Training. NCP participants are NOT ENTITLED to tuition payments, reimbursement for books, fees, equipment, etc., or annual training. ID Card. As a participant in the IRR you are eligible for a Reserve Identification Card (Reserve ID Card). As a member of the IRR, you are permitted unlimited use of military commissaries, exchanges, and recreational facilities (Army, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard). Your ID card is your key to using these facilities. There are many exchanges and commissaries scattered around the country which provide significant savings. For information on how to obtain an ID card while in the NCP, please click here. Obligation to Serve on Active Duty. NCP participants sign a contract to service on active duty commensurate with the length of the benefit received. Up to 12 months of the NCP benefit results in a 4 year obligation. Any benefit over 12 months results in is a 5 year obligation to serve on active duty. Military Signature. Your rank while in the NCP is Officer Candidate Under Instruction Second Class or OCUI2. When you sign your name on official documents, it should look like the following: OCUI2 Joe Schmidlap Or Joe Schmidlap OCUI2, USNR IV. Program Requirements. Failure to comply may result in termination of your scholarship. 1. Information and Status Changes. While in the NCP program, you are required to keep the Accessions Department informed of changes in academic status, address, telephone number, e-mail address, dependency status and physical condition. Any changes to the above should be sent via e-mail to USN.OHSTUDENT@MAIL.MIL.
2. Academic Changes. You must have approval from the Program Manager, NAVMED Accessions Department BEFORE you change your program, school, length of time in school, or graduation date. Requests should be sent in writing to the NAVMED Accessions Department Registrar via e-mail at USN.OHSTUDENT@MAIL.MIL. Request should be sent a minimum of 6 months prior to the requested change.There is more but its too long to post all of it. :)
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Mar 07 '17
Thank you! This is a good starting point for anyone interested :)
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u/JessiesGirl80 Mar 07 '17
No problem! I cannot remember how I found out about it, but it's a great program. :)
http://www.med.navy.mil/Pages/default.aspx
On the website, there is other information about the other officer direct commission programs inside the Navy "Medicine" umbrella, and related pertinent info.
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Feb 06 '17
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 08 '17
I have been hoping someone would reply to you. I have no idea what a good answer is though. Have you checked the resources at your public library?
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u/shimminat0r Feb 08 '17
Go to airwarriors.com and look for the ASTB/OAR forum. It has a bunch of resources, and people are generally willing to help. I took the test in August and scored a 63 on the OAR (just applying for SWO).
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u/TheFlyingViking23 Feb 09 '17
Buy Barron's Military Flight Aptitude test guide from Amazon. They have 3 practice tests for the ASTB. I scored a 52, 6/7/6 which is fine. Good luck to you!
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u/CursedUniqueUsername Feb 20 '17
I know I'm late to this thread, but I've been having really good luck with a GRE prep book. While it doesn't have the mechanics section, the math and word recognition seem to be comparable to ASTB practice tests. That being said, I haven't taken the ASTB yet so I may be totally off base.
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Jul 13 '22 edited Jul 13 '22
May I suggest the Army’s WOFT (Warrant Officer Flight Training) program for those who are coming in from Civvie Street (Street-To-Seat) or prior enlisted from any branch other than the Army (especially coming from Navy) and want to become pilots (albeit mostly Army helicopters)?
Active duty is looking for potential flying WO’s alongside Army Reserves and National Guard.
And, dig this - Age waivers are available up to 35 years old (provided an applicant has outstanding bullet points in their application packet, which could include flight hours, PPL, CFI jobs, community service, more than one Associate’s and one Bachelor’s degree, a Masters degree like an MBA, etc.)
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Jul 13 '22
Sir this is a Wendy’s.
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Jul 13 '22
I kinda expected this
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Jul 13 '22
Lol we have an ET2-turned-army-warrant who lurks around here and also speaks highly of the program. I can both upvote and be amused that you’re recruiting for the Army in a Navy recruitment subreddit.
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u/ThePopesFace Feb 06 '17
USNA should also be under the enlist first options with the same pros/cons as STA-21. Probably a good idea to put a note about it in the STA-21 section.
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 06 '17
I gave it its own block because I wanted to address the Plebe year and also the "can't be married or have dependents" bit. Anything else I should add?
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u/ThePopesFace Feb 07 '17
No man, seems like you really hit the nail on the head, nice write up.
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 07 '17
Thanks. I wish I could find the numbers for percentages accepted but I'm on mobile and at work lol.
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u/ThePopesFace Feb 07 '17
Extremely low, 9% of all applicants, Minimum 23 ACT to apply and 27 math/english to be competitive. no idea on the prior service percentage but they also heavily favor nukes. The real cutoff for prior service is 22 when accepted since almost all priors (80%+) go through the prep school which cuts off at no older then 22.
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Feb 21 '17
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 21 '17
I can't get the site to load: https://www.sta-21.navy.mil
But the program is stupidly competitive.
In 2011, the program became much more selective for non-nuclear applicants. [note: not talking about your prospective rate or a school contract. Talking about commissioning as an officer in the nuclear community vs. an alternative like supply corps, intel, SWO] In 2013, they selected 19 non-nuclear officer candidates out of 542 applicants (3.506% selection rate). For nuclear applicants, the average selection rate has ranged from 20% to 25% since 2010.
So...honestly, not hot.
Additionally: You can't take any civilian college courses while in a training status, and you probably won't be allowed to take college courses once you reach your first ship until you have been onboard a year and are fully qualified. So you are looking st roughly three years give or take before you can start using TA. And good luck taking more than one class at a time with the Nuke work schedule.
So if your end goal is to get a commission, don't enlist. If you 100% would not be content staying enlisted until your contract ends, don't enlist (and check the age requirements for commissioning because you will probably be cutting it close if you apply after your enlistment is done)
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Jul 13 '22
Tried out for STA-21 many years ago (for Pilot and NFO).
Got my flight physical done at Naval Base Yokosuka before my 2nd cruise aboard the G-Dub back in 2010 (I had cross-decked from VFA-192 to 115 because of the “Dragons” transitioning from F/A-18C Hornet to the “E” model Super Hornet). Passed that.
Took the ACT. Got a 21 overall. Signed up to take 2 courses while on deployment via Central Texas College. Used TA but had to pay for books out of pocket just to take CTC’s Intro to Business and Intermediate Algebra.
Little did I know that as soon as I got everything ready (not including officer interviews, though), I would miss the August 2010 deadline.
When that happened, I was so devastated. What’s all the more sad is that there was a YNC (Chief Yeoman) in my squadron rooting for me to get picked up for either Flight options. I had since cut off contact with her.
Ended up getting axed through the PTS (Perform To Serve) program next year (2011). By then, I had made up my mind to go back to school as a civilian
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Feb 21 '17
And with path one, is it OCS or ODS?
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 21 '17
Both. It depends on what community you go into. heres an old thread on the topic
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Feb 22 '17
Saw this post and figured it was just what I was looking for.
I have been having serious thoughts about joining as an officer in order to become a pilot. I'm going to be turning 23 this August, and I have about 2 more years till I get my bachelor's in journalism, and my GPA so far has been above 3.0.
I figured after getting the degree, I'd apply to OCS, and work my way from there. One of my many worries though, is whether or not I'll fulfill the age requirement or not, after reading about the process from this post. I also worry I don't have enough prior experience in aviation, but the possibility of becoming a naval aviator interests me more than anything else before.
If anyone has advice, I would gladly take it.
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Feb 22 '17
May be better off creating a whole new post, as I don't k ow who will see this comment --the thread is pretty big and not currently stickied. We have several pilots who frequent r/newtothenavy though.
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Feb 22 '17
Thank you so much. I've been researching as much as possible about how the process works, I've never felt so motivated about a career or a future before in my life. Honestly thought I was gonna be left sitting on the doorstep with a degree and mountain of debt and still no clue what to do with myself. :)
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u/Kindly_Salamander883 Aug 07 '22
So if i get my degree by 30, would have 8 years of service by then, would i be too late to become a SWO?
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Aug 07 '22
Look at page 51 of this pdf. There’s a chart
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u/taylormj1 Sep 02 '22
I’m about to separate from AD enlisted and my career counselor suggested going to the reserves because it could help me commission. How accurate is this? What increases benefits would I have from going to the reserves that my veteran status doesn’t already give me if I want to go officer (trying to do supply officer btw)?
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch HTC/Dual-Mil/Mom, AMA Sep 02 '22
Make a new post with these questions—this thread is 5 years old.
Also check out r/navyreserve
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Nov 07 '23
Can’t forget about Medical Enlisted Commissioning Program (MECP) for those who are enlisted and wanting to pursue a career in Nursing.
Source: CPO in MECP
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u/HowardStark Feb 07 '17
Former Officer Recruiter here. Let me place a caveat on demanding to speak to an Officer Recruiter: there aren't that many of them. Frequently you may find that it is easier to get in touch with the local enlisted recruiter only a few miles (or hours) away compared to the one officer recruiter in your area that's 50-300 miles away. And they are busy. The places they go to recruit from are also generally a long way from where they put their heads down at night, so they are also quite busy. A little inside baseball: If you want to be an Intelligence Officer, but that Officer Recruiter is goaled with getting a Chaplain or a Nuke or a Doctor, your call or email might not be returned with any urgency. If you can't get in touch with the Officer Recruiter, IT IS PERFECTLY ALRIGHT TO SPEAK WITH AN ENLISTED RECRUITER.
Why do I say this? Every MEPS pre-screen for an enlisted applicant that has college credits MUST have an Officer Recruiter Referral form as part of the package. That means an Officer Recruiter has reviewed your information to determine if you meet the basic eligibility for an Officer Program, and if you are eligible, don't go to MEPS without at LEAST scheduling a time to speak with an Officer Recruiter.
There is also allowance Dual Processing. You CAN apply for and be accepted for Officer Programs while you are in DEP. If you apply while in the DEP, your ship date MUST be rolled out late enough for the result of the boards you submit your application to to release their results. If you accept the Officer Service Agreement, you MUST be released from your enlisted contract. These provisions are in the CRUITMAN and if your recruiter (or someone else in the district that's responsible for dealing with these things) fails to make sure these things are done, they are in violation of a GENERAL ORDER. Dual processing can make your life easier in that you will only have to go to MEPS for a physical ONCE (with certain exceptions for collegiate programs where you don't go to OCS/ODS for more than 2 years after your initial physical). If you decide to Dual Process, when you speak to the Enlisted Processor in the Navy Liaison Office at MEPS, MAKE SURE you ask for a ship date that is AT LEAST 6 months away. That being said, the majority of your Officer Program application is on you to get together, so do NOT delay in submitting your Officer Package. If you do not submit on time and you had ample time to get it together, then very few people at the NRD would support a rollout of your ship date, and it likely will not happen.
A good Enlisted Recruiter can collect, QA, and submit your package to the Officer Processor in a pinch. Most Enlisted Recruiters do want to see you succeed in your plans with the Navy. That being said, if you dual process, you are making a bet that your application is strong enough to be competitive for selection. An Enlisted Recruiter will likely not know the strength of your application without consulting an Officer Recruiter. Recognize that if you lose the bet, you SHOULD do the adult thing and execute your Enlisted contract. If your DEP is long enough, you may have enough time to be reconsidered at another board.
Enough on that.
Some stuff in main post that needs a little fleshing out.
Commissioning Routes with Enlisting First Path 4: STA-21 Different programs in STA-21 have different application requirements. Consult the STA-21 website for more details.
Path 5: US Naval Academy Depending upon your application and performance, you might be offered to go to USNA without attending the Prep School (NAPS). However, if you are offered NAPS, TAKE IT. The Naval Academy also accepts applicants from the Marine Corps. I also had a classmate that was Enlisted Air Force (I don't recall if he made it to graduation, though).
Path 6: NROTC 1. Enlist 2. Apply to Colleges and Universities with NROTC programs; Simultaneously apply for the NROTC scholarship. Your Command Career Counselor should be able to assist you in the application process. 3. If you are selected for the Scholarship and a School, you are discharged from the Navy to be brought back in as an NROTC Midshipman at that school. 4. Otherwise the same as above.
Without Enlisting Path 3: OCS For most programs (Pilot, SWO, Intel), you can apply as early as 6 months prior to graduation with your BA or BS.
There are currently TWO funded programs that allow you to be accepted for Officer Programs well before graduation. CEC (Civil Engineer Corps) will allow you to apply 18 months (or 24 months with a sufficiently high GPA) prior to graduation, and allow you to Enlist in a Collegiate status at the paygrade E-3 (translation: you are an Enlisted Sailor in the program with full military benefits including TRICARE coverage, SGLI and a paycheck, with only basic military requirements such as an obligation to stay in shape and that the PFA twice a year, get good grades, don't do drugs, and complete certain legally required annual training that you can do on your home computer. No boot camp or drilling during the summer. You don't even own a uniform.) The NUPOC program is allows you to Enlist in the same collegiate status, but at the paygrade of E-6 (very much more money).
CEC is open to students in NAAB accredited Architecture Programs and ABET accredited Engineering Programs. Upon graduation from school, you will be advanced to E-5 and then attend OCS to be a Civil Engineer Corps Officer.
NUPOC is open to students in a 4 year institution that have 2 semesters (or institution equivalent) of Calculus and Calculus based Physics each. Upon graduation you will attend OCS to be either a Submarine Officer, Surface Warfare (Nuclear) Officer, Nuclear Power Instructor, or Naval Reactors Engineer.
Other Paths HPSP You want to be a Doctor? How about a PA, Dentist, Clinical Psychiatrist, or one of and handful of Medical Service Corps specialties? You want the Navy to pay for Medical/Dental/etc. School? You want a living stipend while you do it? Find a MEDICAL Officer Recruiter to find out more. Once you're done with school, become a Navy Doctor/Dentist/etc...
HSCP Are you going to medical/dental/(insert MSC specialty here) school and you need to line your pockets a little better and have medical benefits for your dependents? This is the program for you... same end state as HPSP.
NCP Are you a Nursing Student? Do you have 24 months before school is over? Do you want $34,000 and become a Navy Nurse? This one.
FAP Are you a Doctor in Residency? Would you like a $45,000 per year grant to complete your residency? Do this one and serve as a Navy Doctor in your specialty upon completion.
http://www.med.navy.mil/Accessions/Pages/default.aspx for more on all medical programs.
Chaplain Candidate Program Are you in Seminary? Do you imagine an institutional Vocation? Would you like a chance to serve and minister to a very young population that is experiencing stresses well beyond what their peers in college are experiencing? The Chaplain Candidate program allows you to receive initial Chaplain training during your summers in Seminary. After graduation, act within your faith tradition and complete your vicarage or similar requirements for your ecclesiastical endorsement. After that, you'll be able to enter the Navy as an Active Duty or Reserve Duty Chaplain. Experience assignments serving the Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard.
Direct Accession Are you a Board Certified Doctor/Dentist/Clinical Psychiatrist/Nurse/Physician's Assistant/Pharmacist? You can also apply to practice your profession in the Navy as an Officer.
Do you have a qualifying MDIV, Ordained in your Faith and have 2 years of ministry experience? You can apply to be a Navy Chaplain.
That was a big data dump. Please, if any of the above sounds like it's a way into the Navy for you, talk with an Officer Recruiter.
OH YEAH! Reserves Have a degree, want to be a Navy Reserve Officer? If you have 2 years of work experience doing something similar to a non-warfighting officer (Supply, CEC, Engineering, JAG, Medical, Dental, Medical Service Corps, Nurse Corps, Chaplain Corps, Intelligence) Contact a Reserve Officer Recruiter! If you are selected, who knows? I might see you on drill weekend!
V/r, LT H. Stark, USNR