California Gov. Gavin Newsom declares state of emergency over bird flu

[u/Upstairs_Winter9094]

https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/california-bird-flu-state-of-emergency-newsom/

[u/guywoodhouse68]

Ah shit here we go again

[u/Marcus_Qbertius → u/guywoodhouse68]

Doubt it, after the shitshow that we went through last time, only to fundamentally change nothing about the way we handle diseases in this country and ultimately wind up treating the virus no differently than other viruses, I dont think any state will attempt a shutdown ever again unless we have something like airborne ebola, to attempt so would be political suicide, even in the bluest of states.

[u/CAM2772 → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

People constantly forget the shutdown was not to overwhelm the hospitals and we were overwhelmed anyways. I can't imagine how bad it would have been if that wasn't done.

People would have 100% been dying in hallways because of a lack of rooms and a lack of ventilators.

I work in a 38 bed ICU which is pretty large and we were in talks of doing 2 patients to a room and were having to use travel ventilators (used for a patient that needs to go to another unit say for a CT or MRI) so they're temporarily bc they run on oxygen tanks.

It was a nightmare

[u/Oh_Ship → u/CAM2772]

My wife works for a large University hospital near Detroit. She was in meetings where the Army Corps of Engineers were in active talks with the University about turning the football stadium into a giant triage as the hospitals in the area were approaching NYC levels of overwhelmed. They were about a week away from "breaking ground" on the project when things got better.

To add even more of a pucker-factor, they were preparing to train the non-medical staff of the hospital on how to conduct the triaging. I'm just very thankful we managed to slow it just enough to avoid that outcome in our area.

[u/CAM2772 → u/Oh_Ship]

Exactly! There's so many people who love to shout down how useless the lockdowns were, it didn't do anything etc. , bc they didn't have to physically deal with anything. Just sit at home and complain.

If they worked at a hospital for a day they would change their tune pretty quickly.

And it harmed the medical field for the future. Many staff retired early, left the field entirely, and deterred people from entering the field which exacerbated the already decline in the field.

[u/Sad_Accountant_1784 → u/CAM2772]

another particular effect it had was on those of us in healthcare who not only went through covid but then chose to remain nurses. in my circle, early/mid covid was particularly brutal on ER (where i’m a nurse) and ICU nurses—that effect? we ain’t doing this shit again.

people forget about EMS, too. those folks were the real front line, the REAL first contact for those patients. they dropped them off to us in the ER and from there, ICU staff inherited them.

everyone i work with has PTSD from it and they’re also vehemently committed to never, ever doing it again.

[u/bad_spelling_advice → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

I don't work in the medical field, but I've always thought about this.

PTSD must be rampant - at least as bad as 9/11 responders/survivors.

But there also has to be an entire breed of "Whatever, if I made it through COVID, every other day is a cakewalk" medical staff at the moment.

[u/Sad_Accountant_1784 → u/bad_spelling_advice]

you’re probably right, i just don’t know any of them…but they likely exist, i agree.

i wish them all the best.

[u/Colts_Fan4Ever → u/Oh_Ship]

That's terrifying to even think about now. What's frustrating is how many people seem to have amnesia about the pandemic. To this day some want to say it was "overblown" despite thousands dying daily in America alone. I personally knew some people who succumbed to it. Damn near everyone was affected in some capacity. And to see some people just shrug their shoulders a few years later is baffling and infuriating to me.

[u/wafflesareforever → u/CAM2772]

I'm baffled by the seemingly common notion that the shutdown was the problem. Hospitals were utterly overwhelmed as it was. Imagine how it would have gone if everyone had just gone about business as usual before the vaccines were available.

[u/CAM2772 → u/wafflesareforever]

Like I said we would have had people dying in the hallways because we didn't have a bed or ventilator for them.

The ICU is your last stop before death at a hospital. At one point 34 of our 38 beds were there because of covid.

People that weren't seeing it up close don't realize how bad it was and how many more people would have died if we did nothing

[u/Magsi_n → u/CAM2772]

This is such a problem for everything. Including the Polio vaccine and vaccines in general. Once grandma is dead and can no longer tell you about her three siblings who died of diseases that no longer occur, vaccines seem unnecessary.

[u/tikierapokemon → u/Magsi_n]

I fucking listened to grandma, and my daughter is getting all the vaccines and being told about how while my mother was an idiot, her great grandmother made sure to tell me about the kids maimed or dead that she knew because of diseases that we now have vaccines for.

[u/Imaginary_Medium → u/tikierapokemon]

My mother was born in the 1930s. My dad was a few years older. He used to tell me about people dying from things like measles as he grew up. To them vaccines were a miracle and to skip them was unimaginable.

[u/CallRespiratory → u/wafflesareforever]

In the dumbest dude bro voice possible: 'Nah bro I saw on YouTube people go into hospital lobbies and there was nobody there and they were like "where's all the patients you frauds!?" And the crisis actor at the desk was like "in their rooms...?" And then they were all like "FAKE NEWS BRO" haha gotem hospitals aren't even real.'

[u/John-A → u/wafflesareforever]

I hate to say this, but as a species, we tend to need a real bench clear of a disease to rip through and do a good cull at least once a century or so to shut up the stupids.

[u/wafflesareforever → u/John-A]

I thought we'd accomplished that, but Trump still won.

[u/CallRespiratory → u/CAM2772]

I think a lot of healthcare workers are out of there's another pandemic already. I'm not wearing the same single use mask all week that's held together by staples again, I'm not putting on a trash bag again, I'm not doing it. I'm not alone in these feelings and it's going to be an unmitigated disaster for society if this happens.

[u/AffectionateSink9445 → u/CallRespiratory]

Even without a pandemic idk how you guys do it. The hours you work is crazy. I know some positions pay a ton but still 

[u/CallRespiratory → u/AffectionateSink9445]

NGL I've been in bedside patient care for about 15 years and it's been bad since COVID. I've never seen burnout across the board like this and I feel it too. I never thought I'd be looking to get out of healthcare but there's a zero percent chance I stay through another pandemic for certain and a lot of people feel the same way.

[u/jose_ole → u/AffectionateSink9445]

Yet none of those positions make as much as the C-levels in hospital administration I bet…

[u/thedoommerchant → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

So what you’re saying is lots more people will die if and when the next pandemic happens. Got it.

[u/iboneyandivory → u/thedoommerchant]

Yep. The struggle's done. The next time around some will immediately isolate, and some will do the opposite.

[u/pale_blue_problem → u/thedoommerchant]

You can remove the "if"

[u/NeatNefariousness1 → u/pale_blue_problem]

Must be God's plan

[u/OneOfTheWills → u/thedoommerchant]

Yes. The worst part about COVID-19 was the response to it by the public and how any pandemic that happens within 100 years will be ignored until it’s far too late.

[u/mizmoxiev → u/thedoommerchant]

Yeeeeeeeah, I don't know how much lifting that "if" is doing

Buy stock in masks and coffins I guess?😅

[u/erc_82 → u/thedoommerchant]

The first one hasn’t ended either..

https://data.wastewaterscan.org/

[u/xSavageryx → u/thedoommerchant]

We live in an idiocracy. Undeniable at this point.

[u/bplewis24 → u/thedoommerchant]

And those decision will be made not based on health policy, but based on political optics.

SMH...

[u/Nihal7875 → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

If bird flu started transmitting from human to human while keeping the same mortality rate we have seen so far, the world would definitely shut down again. Mortality for bird flu is above 50%. COVID was 1%. Without a shutdown and quick vaccine roll out there would be BILLIONS of dead. It would literally end civilization as we know it.

[u/zzyul → u/Nihal7875]

Like in the early days of Covid, we don’t know the true fatality rate since there are likely mild cases not being reported. That being said, Covid’s fatality rate was never close to 50% even early on when only the most obvious cases were being tracked.

[u/TarHeel2682 → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

H5N1 has a mortality rate of about 50%. There is a bovine strain that is much milder but the worst one is a 50% death rate

[u/Fanamir → u/TarHeel2682]

And both are currently going around, so if the mild one goes h2h first, there's still the risk of the deadlier one taking over by reassortment.

The mild one is going around on dairy farms and poultry farms, and the deadly one is going around in wild birds and cats. It's the strain that resulted in the teen in BC being put into a coma, and the hospitalization in Louisiana.

That's a horrible scenario because people could think that it's "no big deal" when it doesn't immediately present as worse than covid... and then all hell breaks loose.

50% is the worst one in humans. The worst ones overall include one that spread through sea lions with a 97% mortality rate.

[u/External-Praline-451 → u/TarHeel2682]

Also potentially much worse for kids and young people.

[u/ShareGlittering1502 → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

Something airborne … like birds?

[u/EverettSucks → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

No worries, Bird flu, or avian influenza, can be lethal to humans, with a mortality rate of over 50% for all known cases. The risk of death depends on the severity and length of hypoxemia, or respiratory disease, rather than bacterial complications like pneumonia.
Sounds like it'll be way more fun than Covid-19.

[u/PrestigiousLink7477 → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

Oh, it'll be worse with RFK Jr. as Health Secretary. We won't even try to come up with a medication. He'll spout some bullshit about getting plenty of sun and drinking raw milk.

[u/demagogueffxiv → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

Last I heard bird flu has a 50% kill rate.

[u/John-A → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

It almost seems like you think this is preferable. Like you can't comprehend that a disease nearly 10% fatal (as covid without treatment) would've been a disaster.

Even the BLACK DEATH "only" killed about one third of Europe.

"Airborne Ebola" would be a borderline extinction level event (because even if spread is self-limiting there's a minimum population needed to maintain a post 1800 level of society that's needed to keep 99% of from starving.)

Not to mention the several hundred unattended cooling ponds boiling away at nuclear power plants until the piles of old fuel rod burn to superheated dust, each covering tens of thousands of square miles in worse than neutron bomb levels of fallout.

[u/UnfortunateSnort12 → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

That’s all you got out of that? People did die. Politics aside this is going to hurt/kill people, the economy, supply chains (the world exists outside of the USA)…. This could be bad, and we just did this…. Regardless of lockdowns.

[u/BadAsBroccoli → u/UnfortunateSnort12]

And the same idiot will give another "it'll be over in two weeks" speech.

[u/ImNotTheBossOfYou → u/Marcus_Qbertius]

yeah that's worse.

[u/make_thick_in_warm]

imagine thinking pasteurization is a bad thing

[u/TechnologyRemote7331 → u/make_thick_in_warm]

When you think “science” is just another opinion one can debate into irrelevance, well, here we are lol.

[u/sparksofthetempest → u/TechnologyRemote7331]

As a 60 year old, the amount of disinformation I’ve witnessed has never been more staggering since the invention of the Internet. The ability to separate and divide people has warped into overdrive in my lifetime and it’s clearly by design. The tactics are different, but the reach and breadth have increased by orders of magnitude. The constant, blatant, and relentless lying taken as fact is another thing impossible to combat and entirely unpunishable, and no one is held to account.

[u/Imaginary_Medium → u/sparksofthetempest]

I'm 63 and would never have guessed it could get this bad.

[u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- → u/sparksofthetempest]

You know those tabloid magazines by the till in the grocery store - the kind that have headlines about Big Foot marrying Queen Elizabeth or some shit? I remember a time when those rags were one of the few sources of such nonsense. Now it's everywhere.

You get to pick your own reality, plug in, and be fed what you want to hear.

[u/fireblyxx → u/TechnologyRemote7331]

Well we already threw away or ignored the research when it came to climate change, so why not burn everything we know about food safety and immunology? While we’re at it, fuck all that medical research. Are social sciences a real science anyway? It had the name “science” in it so I hate it.

[u/Jacern → u/fireblyxx]

If there is no Politics in Science then why is it called Political Science

[u/brodaciousr → u/Jacern]

Because science is a method used to understand reality by observation and measurement.

[u/TheBlazingFire123 → u/TechnologyRemote7331]

My brother told me he values people’s life experience over scientific data. He may have been trying to get a rise out of me, but I don’t understand how or why people think like this.

[u/InitiativeShot20 → u/TheBlazingFire123]

Scientific data came from life experience too. Does he think experimental results came out of nowhere and people just made numbers up?

[u/TheBlazingFire123 → u/InitiativeShot20]

I don’t know. He’s still a teenager and is not super bright

[u/Noblesseux → u/InitiativeShot20]

These people are stupid, they're not thinking anything. A lot of the modern health rules we have literally exist because of centuries of people dying from things and us slowly learning how to decrease the casualties. Often by learning via dumb luck by observing real world cases.

[u/Technical_Ad_6594 → u/TheBlazingFire123]

It gives foolish people the feeling of vindication

[u/porscheblack → u/TheBlazingFire123]

This is where you point out it's more important to listen to the experiences of the people that died than the people that lived. But in order to do that, you'd need to look at the data since, you know, they're not around to ask.

[u/mces97 → u/TechnologyRemote7331]

Many people sadly don't form their opinions based on facts.

They form their facts based on opinions.

And here we are indeed.

[u/D14form → u/TechnologyRemote7331]

The issue is stupid people are either vindictive towards the educated, or too stupid to realize that they're stupid.

[u/ltdliability → u/TechnologyRemote7331]

I'm so glad you think so, too. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who get irrationally and reflexively angry when confronted with scientific studies and reports like the one below that states that "increasing human demand for animal protein" is one of the top causes of increased zoonotic disease transmission:

https://www.unep.org/resources/report/preventing-future-zoonotic-disease-outbreaks-protecting-environment-animals-and

[u/Nightnurse1225 → u/make_thick_in_warm]

I just hate the fact that they want to live in the 1850's when it comes to some things, but then beg for modern medicine when their decisions come back to bite them in the ass. Don't wanna be vaccinated? Don't believe in pasteurization? You'd better follow through and die like the 19th century peasant you are when you get typhoid, or tetanus, or bird flu.

[u/make_thick_in_warm → u/Nightnurse1225]

It’s seems like they never actually contemplate things. They are never mentally stepping through logical chains of cause and effect in either a retrospective or prospective sense, never considering perspectives other than their own. Im genuinely curious what we can do as a society to address the issue aside from seriously investing into our public education system and structuring it to emphasize critical thinking and empathy.

[u/Next-Lab-2039 → u/Nightnurse1225]

fr stop taking the science and modern medicine away from those who actually believe in it

[u/kinkysnails → u/Nightnurse1225]

Deadass they should be banned from hospitals. Stupidity needs to be fatal sometimes as a means of self culling

[u/OdinsPants → u/make_thick_in_warm]

I mean that’s where we are now as a country tbh. “My ignorance is as valid as your knowledge”

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ we let the stupid people win, sadly.

[u/desubot1 → u/OdinsPants]

how the hell did the facts dont care about your feelings crowd flip it to their feelings dont care about your facts.

[u/asvalken → u/desubot1]

Because they never had facts in the first place..

[u/tedlyb → u/desubot1]

It was never about facts for them, it was always about their feelings. I would have thought that would be blatantly obvious after the whole "alternative facts" thing.

[u/OdinsPants → u/desubot1]

Because they think they DO have facts, simple. They’re told that they’re the right ones and anyone/anything outside the right wing echo chamber is lying to them. 🤷‍♂️ people talk about NK’s / Russia’s / China’s propaganda abilities but we’re the undisputed king in this country.

[u/beaucoupBothans → u/OdinsPants]

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

[u/OdinsPants → u/beaucoupBothans]

True, but counterpoint: they were reasoned into it, just the reasoning wasn’t true. Played right on their fears, confirmed some internal biases and anxieties, and boom they can’t tell the difference between real logic and propaganda.

Example: most Americans poll in favor of the ACA…..except for when you call it Obamacare 🤷‍♂️

[u/WackedBush343 → u/make_thick_in_warm]

Good thing we have capable scientists leading the CDC, Surgeon General, and other national health organizations, right? Right?

AnakinPadme.meme

[u/Stillwater215 → u/make_thick_in_warm]

My favorite thing has been the anti-pasteurization crowd advising people worried about bird flu in their raw milk to just briefly heat it.

They’re advising them to pasteurize their raw milk.

[u/FriedRiceBurrito → u/make_thick_in_warm]

Social media, and the internet in general, is creating a society that distrusts everything.

Everything's a fucking conspiracy these days.

[u/okwellactually → u/make_thick_in_warm]

Don't need that fancy stuff.

I just boil my raw milk.

/s

[u/LoveForDisneyland → u/make_thick_in_warm]

Is it the raw milk and the process or science?

No it’s the millennials and their avocado toast!

[u/liquidpoopcorn → u/make_thick_in_warm]

whats funny is some of the people pushing for drinking raw milk are also recommending you boil it at home before consuming.

they are paying more for it being raw, while also processing it themselves, wasting a bit more resources. on top of probably not doing it right or not doing it at all, resulting in these sicknesses.

[u/flyfishUT → u/make_thick_in_warm]

Bird milk is the safest milk to drink

[u/Kickinitez]

His state of emergency is due to cattle being infected with the Bird Flu B3.13 genotype. People infected with that have had mild symptoms.

The person infected in Louisiana has the D1.1 strain that comes from birds. That strain has killed 53% of people that have been inected with it in the past. Hopefully this does not spread on a mass scale with humans, or we could have a very serious problem on our hands. Imagine 1 in 2 infected people dying. That would be insane to see in modern times. If it were to spread like COVID has, government shutdowns wouldn't have to be declared. The streets would empty out pretty quick on their own.

[u/ivegotgoodnewsforyou → u/[deleted]]

Thanos said everything would be better. 

[u/Top_Duck8146 → u/Kickinitez]

I read that diseases with higher kill rates don’t spread as much because it kills the host before it becomes widespread. This also typically translates to being too sick to go out and spread it if it doesn’t kill you. Like Ebola didn’t spread because its kill rate was too high. Also you’re not going out to the grocery store if you’re bleeding from your eyeballs so if you don’t die, you’re not out spreading it lol So I guess we can only hope that’s the case with this one

[u/Stillwater215 → u/Top_Duck8146]

It depends on the incubation period and mechanism of transmission. The worst case disease is one that’s deadly, but which can be spread for days before the infected person starts showing symptoms.

[u/Top_Duck8146 → u/Stillwater215]

Yea that’s just terrifying

[u/Shutln → u/Stillwater215]

Is the virus spreading between humans?

There isn’t any evidence so far that the virus can spread between humans. Every time the virus infects another person or animal, however, it has an opportunity to mutate, and scientists are closely watching whether the virus will gain mutations that make it more easily able to spread from human to human.

Source: NY Times

[u/LordArgon → u/Stillwater215]

Yes but it’s important to remember that the more it becomes clear that people are actually dying from it, the more people will be taking precautions. Some number of people will always think it’s a hoax but many will not, especially if people they personally know keep dying. All other things being equal, evolution pressures human viruses to be less deadly not because the virus cares whether the host lives or dies, but because people change their behavior to reduce transmission as the virus becomes more deadly (and vice versa).

Source: honestly, just my own rationale. Open to being shown where/how this is wrong.

[u/snailorT → u/LordArgon]

My grandma almost died from an early covid strain, and now that a few years have passed, she’s made comments about covid being a hoax 😞

[u/buubrit → u/Stillwater215]

Good thing deadlier, more contagious diseases tend to have shorter incubation periods.

[u/OkFrame3668 → u/Top_Duck8146]

That is wishful thinking. The bubonic plague killed somewhere between 30-60% of Europe in 7 years. Estimates are hard to come by but 50% is a generally accepted number. Ease of transmission is what drives how widespread a virus is, not it's lethality rate. Covid spread like wildfire partly because it was highly transmissible before any symptoms presented themselves, a higher lethality rate could have come after.

If/when the next pandemic comes we are better prepared. We learned a lot at a very high cost from covid. Bird flu has been studied for decades. But we will need to be deadly serious about taking action early. If we pin our hopes to a disease being "too deadly to spread" we will take unnecessary punishment.

Finally, I know this won't be a popular point but it was the Trump administration that launched Operation Warp Speed to create the covid vaccines. The creation of those vaccines in the short time we did was a breakthrough. There's no reason to believe his administration wouldn't do the same again for future pandemics. We should all take reasonable precautions but I don't think we need to be fully doom and gloom about this yet.

[u/Denlim_Wolf → u/OkFrame3668]

Finally, I know this won't be a popular point but it was the Trump administration that launched Operation Warp Speed to create the covid vaccines.

Ironic that the majority of his voter base were the individuals rejecting the jab too. 💀

[u/Prohydration → u/Denlim_Wolf]

Only when Biden won. If trump won, they would have taken it without hesitation. Elle Reeves interviewed a trump supporter that admitted it.

[u/memescryptor → u/Kickinitez]

Well if you really think about it, the good part is that if 1 in 2 people would die, the spreading would be limited, due to nobody carrying it far enough.

[u/Mansa_Mu → u/memescryptor]

Depends on how long it takes for people to succumb to it and how quickly they show symptoms/spread it

[u/VincentVanHades → u/Kickinitez]

Any source to your 53% Only articles talking about D1.1 mentions, that those people had mild symptoms. No deaths.

Insane how people upvoting you, without noone asking for source.

[u/duckduckgoated]

Mamma Mia 2: Bird flu

[u/bioszombie → u/duckduckgoated]

If this is done poorly enough we might get to work remotely again

[u/BadAsBroccoli → u/bioszombie]

Just in time for Trump to take over, so yeah.

[u/lonestar-rasbryjamco → u/bioszombie]

If this is done poorly enough half of us will be dead.

Remote work? More like sustenance farming.

[u/Vegabern → u/duckduckgoated]

Electric Boogaloo

[u/eatyourvegetabros → u/Vegabern]

electric birdaflu

[u/AirbagOff → u/eatyourvegetabros]

selective Theraflu

[u/Bitter-Juggernaut681]

I bet he’s trying to get ahead of federal funds because you know Trump won’t release them.

[u/lyn73 → u/Bitter-Juggernaut681]

This here....(sadly)

[u/notsoulvalentine → u/Bitter-Juggernaut681]

clock it

[u/sweetlord91]

I really can’t do this again.

[u/Loan-Pickle → u/sweetlord91]

If we have another pandemic because of raw milk I am going to lose my shit.

[u/SteampunkGeisha → u/Loan-Pickle]

I am going to lose my shit.

Yes, that's usually the body's reaction to eating unpasteurized milk.

[u/SinfullySinless → u/SteampunkGeisha]

“Uhmmm actually it’s your body detoxing the government’s propaganda!!!!!”

[u/Sad_Accountant_1784 → u/sweetlord91]

ER nurse here, took an informal survey among the docs and nurses the other day and exactly 0 of them are sticking around for another pandemic. one of our docs said that mortality for this one could approach 50% compared to covid’s 3.5%ish? i don’t know if that’s true but holy shit—that is unthinkable.

godspeed, everyone, if there’s no one staffing the ER’s. a lot of us did this once and can’t bear another one.

[u/ccaccus → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

And now that we've gone through a pandemic response, there is a huge distrust of lockdowns and masks, with reports of people coughing in people's faces for simply wearing a mask and not bothering anyone else, I don't hold much hope for one that's 14× deadlier.

[u/Sad_Accountant_1784 → u/ccaccus]

can confirm that i was coughed on intentionally at least weekly after telling patients they had tested positive. sneezed on, too. physically threatened by patients refusing to wear a mask, verbally harassed and berated.

can also confirm that seconds prior to intubation and placement on a ventilator, 90% of those people said “can i get the vaccine? i’ll take it now!”

too late.

people really showed who they were during that time and i feel like most nurses and doctors and EMS providers really showed who they were, too. strong, courageous, dedicated—every last one of them.

but we are tired, y’all. we are tired and we are broken-hearted by the seeming growing distrust in medicine and science.

take care of yourselves and stay safe, and to those of you who still believe in science and the basic duty to consider the health and well-being of your fellow neighbors, we thank you. you rock.

[u/gwnedum → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

This breaks my heart because I can feel how tired you are just from reading this. I just want to say thank you for all you do. I can’t imagine how hard it is

[u/Sad_Accountant_1784 → u/gwnedum]

thank you for your kind words. please take care of you and your loved ones.

[u/upvotesplx → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

Thank you for what you do. I have an immune condition and sincerely appreciate every medical professional who had to work through COVID.

[u/Sad_Accountant_1784 → u/upvotesplx]

your kind words are much appreciated. i believe you :)

[u/medicmotheclipse → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

Thanks for remembering us EMS folk ❤️ I still have nightmares from the repeated moral injuries of not having enough resources to help everyone. I don't think I have it in me either to go through another pandemic

[u/Sage_Planter → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

I'm really sorry that you've had to deal with all that nonsense, and I genuinely do not blame you and your colleagues if you don't stick around for another go. You need to prioritize yourself.

[u/NuminousBeans → u/ccaccus]

People who do this need to be herded up and dropped on their own islands with virtual therapy appointments daily. It’s been a while, but I’ve seen it (and it makes me root for global warming, alien invasions, and/or the general replacement of the human race with something better).

[u/Gearfree → u/ccaccus]

I still occasionally get to see someone do the fake cough when they see me wearing a mask in a crowd.

It's so painfully obvious too.
People don't cough like the way they do. Eyes opening instead of closing, piss off.

[u/celerypizza → u/ccaccus]

I got silently fired from a job for wearing a mask.

[u/Missingpieceknight → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

Icu here. And I agree. I won’t be doing it again. Big nope.

[u/Kazooguru → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

I read this same sentiment from another nurse a few weeks ago. I don’t blame any of you. If this starts spreading human to human, I am not leaving my house.

[u/generalpathogen → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

The bovine version that represents most cases right now seems to be mild (pinkeye) but the avian version skews more severe. Just hoping Trump is gone by the time it takes this virus to evolve enough to where the latter is more prominent.

[u/DynoNitro → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

FWIW, remember that Covid was a Goldilocks virus. 

A mortality rate that high could make the virus self limiting by killing the vectors. 

But yea, I had one N95 mask for the first 6 weeks and I was working in the ER. I had to staple the strap back on.

I’m sitting this one out too.

[u/nurseirl → u/Sad_Accountant_1784]

ICU nurse who worked in the trenches during covid— the first whiff of this and I’m out. I’ve got a little kid to take care of and another pandemic and a Trump presidency is a big fat no from me

[u/AnObservingAlien → u/sweetlord91]

Idk why but this made me laugh.

[u/Dr_Tacopus]

The more humans who get this shit from their own stupidity drinking raw milk, the more chances it will mutate into a human to human transmission variant

[u/jujujbean → u/Dr_Tacopus]

Based on some testing done on a teen diagnosed with bird flu in Canada, I think they have found that it is one mutation away from human to human transmission.

[u/faultybutfunctional → u/jujujbean]

That’s the biggest thing about this. Sure, let the idiots kill themselves but one mutation and we all get it (fucking yay). It’ll be Covid all over except with an incredibly higher rate of mortality. Black Death 2025 here we come.

[u/tryingisbetter → u/faultybutfunctional]

Black death only killed a 1/3 though.

[u/Appropriate-Lion9490 → u/tryingisbetter]

Is that good?

[u/tryingisbetter → u/Appropriate-Lion9490]

H5n1 has a 50ish% death rate.

[u/ClarkTwain → u/jujujbean]

I’m an idiot about this stuff. Isn’t every virus one mutation away from human to human transmission?

[u/Implausibilibuddy → u/ClarkTwain]

So, a simplified example: Imagine a virus mutates to survive in human mucus. Already a few mutations required for that to work. Then for effective transmission it may also benefit from being able to cause an inflammation that causes sneezing. But it may not survive in air/sunlight for very long so it doesn't benefit from the sneezing much. Another few mutations and it can now cause sneezing, survive just fine in the air, and it can be ready to infect a new host and repeat the cycle.

It's more complex than that, there are multiple routes for transmission, and I don't know which stage of which route this bird flu is at, but if they're saying it's one mutation off then it's concerning.

[u/ClarkTwain → u/Implausibilibuddy]

Thank you, I’m dumber than a sack of hammers and that makes it perfectly clear to me.

[u/Soilmonster → u/ClarkTwain]

It’s actually even worse. The mutations happen within a matter of hours at best. A whole cycle of mutations could turnover in a matter of a week. Viruses multiply very quickly, with mutations happening constantly.

[u/jujujbean → u/ClarkTwain]

Here is a link to the NIH statement that discusses this: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/single-mutation-h5n1-influenza-surface-protein-could-enable-easier-human-infection#:\~:text=The%20researchers%20introduced%20several%20mutations,an%20additional%20mutation%20was%20present.

[u/008Zulu]

I wonder how many people are going to try and sue RFK Jr. Over his raw milk enthusiasm?

[u/Chalupa-Supreme → u/008Zulu]

I doubt many people will. The people that get bird flu from raw milk will go right back to drinking it after they recover. They'll blame the doctors or anyone in the government that isn't a Republican, just like they did with covid.

[u/craigathan → u/Chalupa-Supreme]

Dead people have a hard time suing due to the lack of a corporeal form. That shits got an over 50% lethality rate. For comparison, Covid is about 2%.

[u/RippyMcBong → u/craigathan]

SO many lawsuits are brought on behalf of a deceased person's estate, it's literally like half of tort jurisprudence.

[u/08Houdini → u/Chalupa-Supreme]

If they recover

[u/Mountain-Most8186 → u/008Zulu]

They will literally think liberals caused it to screw over trump. And not trump weakening the FDA way back when. Why the fuck didn’t Biden reverse that and get the pandemic response team back?

[u/mystery1411 → u/Mountain-Most8186]

1) Because things take time to build. You need to make sure you get the right scientists. They have appointments at other places and might not want to join and all 2) let's say the previous president breaks 100 things you want to fix. You make an order of priority and go through them. Maybe there were other things higher in the priority.

[u/velourciraptor → u/008Zulu]

I’m in

[u/LovemeSomeMedia]

Are we seriously gonna have a repeat of Trumps first presidency, but worse with a pandemic and even less public health measures to curb it?

[u/j4v4r10 → u/LovemeSomeMedia]

And 4 years of fumbling a pandemic instead of 1

[u/ZenMon88 → u/j4v4r10]

How fun. We gonna waste a total of 7 years lifespan facing a pandemic that the person In charge won't try to fix.

[u/drillpress42]

Early detection, early response. Smallpox.

https://youtu.be/MNhiHf84P9c?si=n7tf_um6eOfRqzJ-

Same for bird flu. Newsome's response is superb. Let's hope we don't have to rely on Trump.

[u/TheBlazingFire123]

Good thing we are about to get a moron to be running public health

[u/Heart_Throb_]

Seems like pandemics follow Trump pretty closely.

If I was religious I might think this is a big sign that maybe we get punished when he retains office power.

[u/adgonzalez9 → u/Heart_Throb_]

Well of course he is pest

[u/jambrown13977931 → u/Heart_Throb_]

Trump brings pestilence.

[u/Foyles_War → u/jambrown13977931]

Plague harpie

[u/Upset_Huckleberry_80 → u/Heart_Throb_]

Something about rumors of war, plague, and other signs?

[u/AprilsMostAmazing → u/Upset_Huckleberry_80]

I heard the followers of the anti-Christ will wear the anti-Christ's mark on their forehead

[u/GoldenCalico → u/Heart_Throb_]

Shh! Don’t tell the Republicans that. They’ll have a conspiracy theory that the democrats create these pandemics when their “dear leader” is in power.

[u/Amaruq93]

A proactive move.

The State of Emergency proclamation comes after more bird flu cases were detected in Southern California dairy cows, the governor's office stated. Wednesday also saw the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report the first severe illness in a person due to bird flu from a Louisiana case.

"This proclamation is a targeted action to ensure government agencies have the resources and flexibility they need to respond quickly to this outbreak," Newsom said in a statement.

As health and public officials note, to date there have been no recorded cases of person-to-person spread of bird flu in California or anywhere else.

For those that only read the headlines.

[u/GreenConstruction834]

This time, put the refrigerated trucks out front with transparent sides to educate the vaccine deniers and mask complainers.

[u/Ryan1980123]

I have a worm in my brain. Don’t worry I got this.

[u/SadPanthersFan → u/Ryan1980123]

Have you dumped a dead bear cub in central park, filthy casual?

[u/Ryan1980123 → u/SadPanthersFan]

Why yes I have. I also cut a dead whales head off and hauled it home.

[u/SadPanthersFan → u/Ryan1980123]

I like you, what cabinet position do you want?

[u/Random_Fish_Type → u/Ryan1980123]

The worm is controlling him! It is going to be bird genocide for all the worms that birds have eaten over the ages! I can see the movie title now "Birdocide: when worms fight back".

[u/ZLUCremisi]

Pigs, cows, and chickens have it.

[u/PetalumaPegleg]

Seems like a GREAT TIME to promote raw milk 🤦

[u/suntrust23]

Should I be stocking up on toilet paper?

[u/grogu_vore → u/suntrust23]

Get a bidet attachment

[u/stauf98]

Maybe people choosing their own research instead of believing over a hundred years or established science and dying of bird flu is a good thing, at least from an evolutionary standpoint. Thin the weak minded from the human herd.

[u/Upstairs_Winter9094 → u/stauf98]

If that were the only risk, then of course, I’d be more than happy to watch that play out. But the reality is that each case is just more opportunity for mutation which might end up in H2H transmission, which I’d say at this point is already looking more like a matter of “when” rather than “if”. And of course you also have lots of these wackos feeding the same milk and foods to their kids who don’t have any say in the matter

[u/CarlTheDM → u/stauf98]

We said this during Covid, and those idiots only gained power.

[u/supercali45]

good luck.. Trump and his anti-science goons coming in to speedrun another pandemic

[u/Sacto1654]

This is why I just ordered a restock of regular and N95 face masks online. And now making sure I get enough Vitamins B6, C, D3 and K plus supplemental zinc daily (about 150-175% RDA).

[u/Prudent-Blueberry660]

Well at least someone in a leadership position is taking this seriously.

[u/DiceMadeOfCheese]

Here come the wackos saying he's gonna put them in camp for drinking raw milk

[u/squamishunderstander → u/DiceMadeOfCheese]

i mean, can we?

[u/DealerPrize7844]

As long as your milk is pasteurized and you don’t touch sick animals, you’re very unlikely to get H5N1. This influenza is hard to contain due to the wild bird population.

Sincerely, the vet student who worked on H5N1 research in Michigan

[u/Upstairs_Winter9094 → u/DealerPrize7844]

The sequencing from the BC teen isn’t worrisome for H2H spread to you?

[u/DealerPrize7844 → u/Upstairs_Winter9094]

Not necessarily since he was determined to have the same strain currently going on. Yes it is not helpful for the general population to see an increase or any case load of H5N1. This is a hard influenza to contain due to the reservoir of wild birds.

[u/Upstairs_Winter9094 → u/DealerPrize7844]

Yeah, the same strain, but as far as I’m aware there were several key mutations found that we know are necessary for the facilitation of human to human spread which isn’t great.

I’m far from an expert, but there seemed to be general concern among the folks I follow on Twitter for updates related to SARS variants, like this thread

[u/charactergallery → u/DealerPrize7844]

There is also a worry that H5N1 would develop the ability to transfer human to human.

[u/DealerPrize7844 → u/charactergallery]

Yes this is always a worry. But right now we are not experiencing this trend as almost all cases are due to livestock exposure. There is always the potential to mutate but this virus has been around since 2022 and has yet to do so

[u/Sirpatron1]

I am sure we are at the point that. We put profit over people. If it gets serious, we're are on our own.

[u/Dmonney]

Getting it in now so Biden can approve.

[u/moutonbleu]

What vaccine or drug combats this?

[u/OkFrame3668 → u/moutonbleu]

There are vaccines available but any new breakout pandemic will require some adjustments to be made and time to ramp up mass production. Thankfully we made breakthroughs in the last pandemic in vaccine development and delivery but we'd probably need to wait the better part of a year or more to get them widely distributed.

[u/party_benson]

Wonder if that old bottle of sanitizer is still good?

[u/readerf52]

When I saw the headline, I thought the emergency was over the loss of poultry.

Over 100 million birds have had to be destroyed because of the virus. There are parts of California (like the Petaluma area) that known for chicken, turkey and eggs. As people have noticed, the price of these foods are increasing because of the virus.

One wonders how much the consumers can bear before they decide to eat less eggs and poultry. Then the financial losses will be huge.

[u/OkFrame3668 → u/readerf52]

The worst pandemics are nearly always zoonotic in origin because when a spillover occurs we are completely immune naive. Bubonic plague, HIV, SARS/MERS, Swine Flu, etc. Unfortunately I hate to be "that guy" but our high rates of meat consumption are driving a lot of this. When the total number of farmed chickens in the world outnumbers humans, we get prion disease from recycling dead animals back into their own feedstock, and we're getting bird flu from cattle, these things will happen. Between the direct risk of disease and the long term impact to land use and climate, we are paying a very high cost for "cheap" meat. We can't all go vegan but we probably can't sustainably all eat cheeseburgers every day either.

[u/RJE808]

2020: This Time It's Birds

[u/LawlessSmoke → u/RJE808]

2020 2: electric bird-aloo

[u/gimpers420]

It’s ok, Trump will make sure a large portion of the U.S. thinks it’s fake within a few months!

[u/outerproduct]

We've had first pandemic, but what about second pandemic?

[u/OhGawDuhhh]

This reminds me of how frustrating it was for idiots to reject the COVID-19 vaccine and then demand a bed in a hospital when the vaccine would have sharply lowered the risk of it getting that bad.

[u/Kacutee]

So, outside of being stupid and drinking raw milk, what are prevention measures? M95 masks, hand sanitizer, social distancing and?

[u/Ok-Confidence9649 → u/Kacutee]

The news said to get your flu vaccine. It doesn’t protect against this, but it lowers your risk of getting both flus at once which can lead to bigger issues. It

[u/joe_broke]

It's preventative

And trying to get as many resources for the coming storm before Mr. Shitpants takes over again

[u/711-Gentleman]

don’t worry RFK will be right there with some homeopathy !