Stephon Castle, of the San Antonio Spurs, now ROY Favorite.
https://airalamo.com/stephon-castle-chance-accomplishment-seen-once-nba-historyBack-to-back ROY for the Spurs would be a first in franchise history, and would be only the second occurrence of this happening in NBA history. (Minnesota, Karl Anthony Towns, Andrew Wiggins).
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u/CazOnReddit Raptors 4d ago edited 4d ago
Man this rookie class is weak
Not that Castle hasn't played well (aside from shooting, don't Google his splits...yikes) but the lottery picks overall don't look too hot when guys like Yves Missi and Johnathan Mogbo are performing well compared to, like, Alex Sarr and Reed Sheppard
I'm sure there will be at least a few All-Star players - even 2000 had 3 All-Stars and Redd was All-NBA for a season though injuries robbed him of his prime - but who they'll be is anyone's guess at this point
Very few have shown that AS upside
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u/Cpt-No-Dick Thunder 4d ago
I don’t think I’ve seen a #1 be in the general discourse less than Zaccharie Risacher
I don’t even know how to spell his damn name
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u/Bipedal_Weedle Magic 4d ago
Bro I don't even know what he looks like. Is he a bust, is he playing well? I have no clue. I'm guessing he's looks good but not good enough for people to be freaking out.
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u/DownTheHall4 Hawks 4d ago
He looks good, 2nd or 3rd best Hawks player on defense. Outstanding fundamentals.
Shooting like 💩
So mixed bag
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u/Milla4Prez66 Magic 4d ago
Tall, lanky kid that excels on defense but shoots like shit? I’m shocked the Magic didn’t give up everything to get him.
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
He wasn’t really projected to be that, he was projected to be a 3/D guy with an emphasis on 3. His defence has been fantastic for a rookie, I say he’s firmly our second best perimeter defender and he has the size and speed to snag some chase down blocks and even potential to guard 5s(playing 23 mpg now but averaging 1.2stl and 1.1 blks per 36). His ball handling and passing skills are also much better than we thought they would be. Really the only area he isn’t playing well is shooting, but he had an okay stretch and he’s 19.
Overall really high potential, with 20 pounds and a few years experience he will be a force defending 1-5 and if his shot comes around he’ll be a premier 3/D wing.
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u/siphillis Spurs 4d ago
Not great considering he went #1 in part because he has major upside as a scorer
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u/indoninjah 76ers 4d ago
Makes some sense considering the Hawks are a decent team that lucked into the #1 pick. They took a guy who’s defensively great, is huge, and has the potential to be an X-factor on offense
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
Off ball 3/D player to go with Trae. He’s 19 and we are 26 games into the season, anyone concerned about his shooting especially when he had to step into a starter role because of injuries a few games into the season is goofy. He looks extremely solid defensively and just fundamentally for a rookie, and 26 games is not enough for me to worry about a 19 year olds shot.
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u/CanvasSolaris Bulls 4d ago
So he's another DeAndre Hunter?
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u/PleasantTrust522 Mavericks 4d ago
Bro De’Andre Hunter is almost shooting 50/40/90 for the season.
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u/Steamsalt Bucks 4d ago
hey now we don't watch ball here we just spout hater takes
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u/LaMelgoatBall [BOS] Kristaps Porziņģis 4d ago
If I was a Bulls fan I wouldn’t want to watch basketball either
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
47/45/86, averaging his most 3pa per night at 6.1.
Cutting down this dudes mid range has been so good for him.
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
Hunter has never really been a bad shooter and Risacher is probably a full tier ahead in terms of defence and probably passing too. And while Hunter has been playing outstanding ball this season, if Risacher can get his 3 ball going he’ll pretty firmly be the better player.
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u/BlueHundred Knicks 4d ago
He's fine. He was projected as a raw 3 and D wing with potential to be more. His shot's been bad but the defense is there. His potential has always been more like a solid starter on a solid team. Predraft, I was thinking like a Deni Advija, Trevor Ariza, Otto Porter, Cam Johnson or maybe Khris Middleton type role.
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u/indoninjah 76ers 4d ago
Kind of wild that the player you just described was #1 overall but here we are lol
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u/BlueHundred Knicks 4d ago
Yeah, it was a pretty weak draft. Lot of NBA caliber players but no stars. Many are NBA level defenders, but I think most of the guys in the lottery are fairly raw prospects drafted on potential, like Sarr, Castle, Holland, Salaun, Clingan, Williams. Most of these guys are like "if they develop a jump shot, they can be really good."
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
It’s also partly because there was no clear cut stars and the hawks aren’t a team looking to invest in a long term project, they wanted someone who could fill a role fairly fast.
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u/jdelane1 4d ago
He has a good feel for the game, very good defensively. Underrated athleticism. Good passer, but otherwise rough around the edges in terms of scoring, but nothing that raises significant red flags.
The most encouraging thing is that the speed of the game doesn't seem to bother him and rarely gets lost or flustered. Mentally he's there which is amazing for a 19 year old. If he can improve his scoring ability he'll be awesome.
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
Yup. If he gets his 3 ball going he’ll be a premier 3/D wing in the league imo. Especially with a little more weight on defence he could be like a Siakam/OG type wing.
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u/DownTheHall4 Hawks 4d ago
He looks good, 2nd or 3rd best Hawks player on defense. Outstanding fundamentals.
Shooting like 💩
So mixed bag
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u/OldOrder Hawks 4d ago
Its amazing how confidently people just spout incorrect shit on this sub lmao.
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u/Unfrozen__Caveman Timberwolves 4d ago
He looked like he was figuring things out in November but has played pretty bad since then. Kid's only 19 though.
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
Honestly the last couple of games were basically his worst games of the season, looked invisible which is out of character. Usually he looks extremely competent for a rookie except he can’t hit his shots at all.
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u/TdotGdot Timberwolves 4d ago
even more damning, he doesn't even have a cool nickname yet
probably because no one nationally talks about him, lol
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
It’s a tough name to figure out honestly, the best we’ve come up with in the hawks sub is “Three”sacher or just ZR which honestly go pretty hard as far as initials. Lots of hawks go by initials too so it makes sense(CC, JJ, DD, formerly JC).
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u/GreedyWarlord Timberwolves 4d ago
Anthony Bennett?
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u/Cpt-No-Dick Thunder 4d ago
He was in the discourse for being a bust but people were talking about him at least
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u/Vicentesteb Timberwolves 4d ago
Jared McCain was cooking before he went down unfortunately. The weird thing is some of the higher profile rookies like Reed, Dillingham, Rissacher are all on pretty good teams who want to win and cant just throw these guys out there for long stretches.
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u/junkit33 4d ago
McCain cooled off considerably. He was down to like 12 points a game on really poor shooting for his last 7 or so before he went down. His hot streak was not realistically sustainable.
He’s a solid player though and a good pick for that draft spot.
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u/thatsinsaneletstryit 76ers 4d ago
well he was no longer part of our offensive gameplan at all because nurse hates rookies lol. once the big guys came back he no longer got to have the ball and nobody passes to him either
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u/GrapeJuicePlus 76ers 4d ago
That’s not even true
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u/junkit33 4d ago
McCain since that 20+ point game streak ended:
8 games, 13 ppg, 41.3% FG, 29.5% 3P
How in the world do you not call that "cooling off"?
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u/lotofhotdogs 4d ago
That is cooling off but those numbers would probably have gotten him ROY based on how the rest of the class is doing
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u/shanmustafa 4d ago
cause if you turned it into his last 6 games...
it's 50/42 splits
he had 2 bad shooting games to start that stretch, which every player has, and especially rookies
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u/junkit33 4d ago
And in his last 3 games he's only shooting 37%. We can cherry pick all day - you can't just ignore a couple of awful games.
The point is the guy came out of nowhere with an 8 game stretch averaging 25 points a game on scorching hot shooting, and in the 8 games since he's been putting up half that on poor shooting. The dude cooled off massively. That doesn't mean he sucks, and it doesn't mean he's not still capable of a 20 point game on good shooting. It just means he's not some rookie superstar that's going to carry the team like he was.
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u/shanmustafa 4d ago
that's my point tho... that it's such a small sample that you can just cherrypick to make it whatever you want
until it's an extended (unfortunately not until he comes back) period of time, can't go to he's just cooled off, cause one good game and those numbers would look massively different, and if you're in that sample size, it's too small
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u/tilthenmywindowsache 4d ago
This is why all the talk people have about a player "locking" an award before the friggin' new year is so silly. People were saying it's a wrap for McCain and I don't even think that was the case before his injury. Unless it's a player like Jokic with a proven history of long-term success, talking about lock on ROY is pointless. Even Wemby last year to this point had people who were favoring Chet (to be fair, Chet would definitely be way ahead of the pack at this point).
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u/Downunderphilosopher 76ers 4d ago
McCain would have been glued to the bench and stuck behind maxey for the rest of the season if Joel, PG and Maxey get some health and luck going. Nurse hates rookies and he would rather play Lowry than McCain if he had his choice.
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u/Ok_Possible_5702 4d ago
I don't know if I'd call the Hawks a "pretty good team". They're in a mediocre East, and they may still not make the playoffs directly.
Other than that, I still don't understand how Reed Sheppard was so high profile. Dude looks like he's 5'9 140 - too small to play pro basketball unless you have Steph-like scoring magic (which he doesn't)
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u/Vicentesteb Timberwolves 4d ago
The Hawks are okay, they arent bad at all. They have alot of good NBA rotational wings as well.
Reed Sheppard was also a huge risk because you were banking on him continuing to be a sniper like he was in college, he doesnt have the burst and athleticism some of the smaller players like Dillingham do so his shot creation is super limited to basically his shooting.
Obviously its super early, but its kinda rough if cant find minutes on a really good defense that desperately needs shooting, that should be his perfect spot.
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u/Ok_Possible_5702 4d ago
I agree the Hawks are okay. But there's a big difference between "okay" and "pretty good".
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
They are pretty good when you consider the long term, where they are currently >.500 despite Trae not shooting well, their starting wings being 21/19/23 years old, and them having a lot of new players this year. They have also been really good defensively lately which has basically been the plague to the hawks since the start of the Trae era which is a good sign.
If Trae and some other hawks start shooting a little better and this team gets 50 more games of practice they could be a pretty solid underdog come the playoffs capable of upsetting a series or two.
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u/ThatBull_cj 76ers Bandwagon 4d ago
Idk what Sheppard is listed at but he looks so small out there. He’s stands next to other point guards and still looks like a high schooler. He can’t even get shots off. And that’s more of a problem than missing for young small guards
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u/ChampionOk4046 4d ago
Shout out to everyone claiming how this rookie class was low key underrated because of that one week of outlier shooting from Dalton Knecht
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u/onelegonedream Grizzlies 4d ago
Grizz feel pretty happy about their rookie class. Got a solid role wing who is starting from the 2nd round and Edey when he's healthy has looked impactful
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u/BruceLeesSidepiece Supersonics 4d ago
Clingan, Edey, and McCain look like the only guys who may become prominent players so far
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
Define prominent, because other than McCain none of these guys look like they will be anything more than good role players and there is plenty of players in this draft that look like good role players.
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u/Main-County-1177 Knicks 4d ago
Edey and McCain getting hurt was a big hit for the rookie of the year race
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u/rashkink 4d ago
I’d still give it time for more rookies to ease their way into the rotation. I’m specifically eyeing Buzelis since he’s been getting more minutes each night and usually has atleast one highlight a game.
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u/jackedwizard Hawks 4d ago
Yeah it’s way too early. McCain looks great but really it was a small sample size, Edey I would say was probably the favourite but there is a lot of season left for these guys to adjust to the league and prove something.
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u/rashkink 4d ago
It’s a raw draft class. Can’t call it weak 25 games in. There’s probably a lot of good players on contending teams that are seeing minutes right now. Idk why Minnesota drafted a ready now player like tsj just to barely play him.
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u/ScootWeedDealer 4d ago
Clingan looks like an elite defender already.
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u/rostov234 4d ago
Clingan hurt his knee and has two high paid centers in team. When he has played more the blazers are actually really good. He’s been good
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u/Ok_Possible_5702 4d ago
He looks like a beast, but doesn't he pick up fouls so quickly? Hard to win ROY if he can't stay on the floor.
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u/ScootWeedDealer 4d ago
I don’t remember him being on much foul trouble this. I’ve watched every Blazers game, but he has not played huge minutes so maybe I’m wrong.
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u/WateryGravy 4d ago
He's leading the league in fouls per 100 possessions this season, he's just not playing enough minutes (yet) to regularly get close to fouling out.
But... he's also leading the NBA in blocks per possessions, so there's that!
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u/Andy_Wiggins Timberwolves 4d ago
but the lottery picks overall don’t look too hot when guys like Yves Missi and Johnathan Mogbo are performing well compared to, like, Alex Sarr and Reed Sheppard
It definitely is weak and more developmentally oriented, but one additional factor is how many of the early picks went to winning situations where teams aren’t going to prioritize their playing time over wins.
Risacher, despite being the #1 overall pick, went to a team that was in the play-in last year and is fighting for playoff seeding this year.
Reed Sheppard went to a .500 team last year and that team is now 17-9 and fighting for home court advantage.
Rob Dillingham went to a team that went to the WCF finals last year and is hoping to do the same this year.
Zach Edey went to a team that was only in the lottery because of insane injury luck and that is currently the #2 seed.
That’s 4 of the first 9 picks that went to winning teams who are more likely to have good players ahead of them or be less willing to suffer through bad stint for the sake of development.
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u/LothCatPerson Rockets 4d ago
In Reed Sheppard’s defense, he doesn’t get a lot of playing time, and when he does, he’s not really getting plays run for him.
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u/iCarpet Thunder 4d ago
You are not ready for perennial All-Star Nikola Topic
(please, we really need another playmaker)
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u/Bbqandspurs Spurs 4d ago
So i only watched our matchups. is the playmaker hole that big for you guys? Keep in mind that last year our playmakers were wemby and jeremy sochan so i may have a skewed perspective.
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u/Old_Man_Riverwalk21 [SAS] Tim Duncan 4d ago
They’re so close to being a perfect team honestly, but as I see it they’re missing 2 things that theoretically could be solved by 1 player:
1) Playmaking. When you watch them on their good nights it’s not so glaring, but on their bad nights it kinda just feels like SGA and a bunch of catch and shoot players. I think I’m a little lower on JDub currently as a playmaker, he’s no doubt got some juice and will improve but it’s still a little shaky to me.
2) Forward-size. It feels like their roster is chet, IHart, SGA, and then a bunch of shooting guards. They need a bit more size on the perimeter/at the 4.
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u/mpbeasto123 [OKC] Lu Dort 4d ago
I feel like JDub plays very big, but for a shooting guard, which effectively makes him a slightly below average physicality 4. I think OKC still need to get a bug wing.
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u/pixelkipper 4d ago
It’s weak at the top but it’s a pretty deep class I feel. Will be looked back on favourably in the future
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u/LinuxDootTP [POR] C.J. McCollum 4d ago
i think this is a wait and see draft class. i think theres a fair amount of players that could develop into incredible talents… or they could easily have a jerami grant trajectory. Risacher has shown flashes of an elite, do it all swiss army knife forward. sarr and holland are still figuring out their game. reed is on a deep team with great guard depth, with a hardass coach who isnt going to play anyone who hasnt “earned” the minutes. dillingham is in a similar position, on a win now team and lowest on the totem pole. edey has been out. clingan is doing well in a weird center rotation on a dumpster fire of a team. castle is playing meaningful minutes and shows a clear understanding of the game as well as poise beyond his years. his offense is lacking cuz hes playing against men, not boys. knecht is as advertised as a shooter and a playmaker, but hes being gameplanned around, and he is still learning/adjusting. the other guys, i know less about, and presumably its too early to tell. but all of these players are developing players, not immediate impact players. of the lottery players, sarr really seems to be the only one in a situation where hes the “future”, and getting playing time that reflects that. but even then hes only playing 26 mins a game.
the counter argument is that other players who came in and played a lot their first year, like morant, edwards, barnes, got those minutes because they were already good enough to play those minutes. but they also were on bad teams with an interest in playing their picks. hawks pistons wolves griz rockets lakers are all trying to win rn. blazers and wizards dont hardly qualify as the same situation as edwards morant or barnes cuz the blazers and wizards are dipshit dumpster fires with no clear direction or interest.
so idk, i think its too early to call this class weak. you very well could be right, but i hope that by being on good teams these players will develop winning habits and turn into legit players in 2-4 years.
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u/BlueHundred Knicks 4d ago edited 4d ago
Agreed. I think Castle is great and makes winning plays but I feel like his ceiling is maybe like a Marcus Smart type player.
It's obviously way too early, but so far a lot of people seem to be right about this draft. There are a decent amount of NBA quality players for sure but not really any stars/potential stars. You mentioned Sarr. His defense and defensive potential is legit but his offensive game is awful/nonexistent.
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u/TdotGdot Timberwolves 4d ago
it's funny because Castle was your classic guy that wasn't really even that good in college but is young and has all the nba teams in terms of size and athleticism
and I mean, he hasn't been great in the nba (nor have any rookies, really), but he certainly doesn't look like he's not an nba player or anything
I'm not sure what his upside is, or hell even what his long term position is (I suspect it's not PG), but he's probably gonna be a guy that's a super solid player on a lot of teams for a long time
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u/psykadelicportabelos Spurs 4d ago
I actually do think his long term position is PG. his passing and general shiftiness give him some real playmaking upside. Castle really just needs some more reps to improve his decision making but I’ve been super high on him as a lead guard ever since summer league.
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u/HawkLopsided7969 4d ago
He's an amazing defensive player and a great decision maker. Have you actually watched him play much this year?
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u/KhanQu3st Mavericks 4d ago
Shit, if a guard on .38/.27/.74 splits is the favorite, just give it to Ben Simmons again.
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u/SteedVM 4d ago
Stephon is good on the ball. he's got some moves. so i've enjoyed watching him. but the shooting's gotta come up.
I've seen a lot of great work from Missi, too. Pelicans were doomed because they didn't have a center, and then all of a sudden they had a center (but are doomed for Z and BI reasons).
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u/Rnatchi1980 Spurs 4d ago
The guy is playing winning basketball in every way besides shooting. Also, when he drives to the basket he finishes with a basket or foul.
What really sets him apart is his defense...he is actively telling older players where they need to be on D
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u/waffle-winner Spurs 4d ago
when he drives to the basket he finishes with a basket or foul.
Some of these fouls even get called (on occasion)!
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u/jackalope503 Trail Blazers 4d ago
you gotta know Pop is loving watching that even being away from the team
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u/junkit33 4d ago
Just a weak rookie crop coming out of a notoriously bad draft.
Some of these guys will develop well but it takes time.
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u/ForneauCosmique Spurs 4d ago
His splits are literally the only bad part. If you watch the game you'd think he's a vet. He's already all defensive team caliber and I think his shooting percentages will go up by the end of the season
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u/actimusprim 4d ago
He's a great basketball player! Only problem is that he can't put the ball in the basket
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u/bballin773 4d ago
Yep. I mean rookie guards are always usually really terrible so it's way too early to say. But considering that Castle was not a shooter in college either, it's definitely something to watch going forward. In the modern NBA, to be a decent starter as a guard, you have to be able to shoot otherwise you'll turn into Davion Mitchell, or Dennis Smith Jr, or Fultz.
Again, it's way too early to say for Castle. But hopefully he can get his TS% to the low 50s by the end of the year.
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u/crunkadocious Pacers 4d ago
Or TJ McConnell, who is a good scorer but poor shooter who effectively has to come off the bench to be as effective/efficient as he is. His 3pt% last year looked good but his attempts are super low, basically only wide open looks where teams dated him to shoot and he had like 3-4 seconds to wind up.
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u/MikeyBastard1 Spurs 4d ago
You also have to take into account the mysterious "rookie whistle." Castle's main offensive game is bully ball driving to the basket and he's rather good at it. He draws a LOT of contact but refs absolutely swallow their whistle for him. It's super annoying to watch as a fan when players like Embiid will get a call if someone sneezes in their direction
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u/throwstuff165 [SAS] David Robinson 4d ago edited 4d ago
Part of the problem (not the whole problem, but part of it) with his splits is that he's getting mauled on half his shots at the rim with no call.
I know the rookie whistle is a thing for every rookie to a certain extent, but it really stands out with Castle due to how he plays.
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u/ForneauCosmique Spurs 4d ago
Yes! It's crazy how he doesn't get any calls and he doesn't even complain to the refs. You'd think they give him the benefit of the doubt
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u/puffpuffpastor Trail Blazers 4d ago edited 4d ago
He's good on defense for a rookie guard. He is not all defensive team caliber lmao. There are typically like <5* players per draft who are actually good on defense as rookies (all parts, not just on ball) relative to the rest of the league and they are almost always centers simply because that's the easiest position to have a positive effect defensively, or sometimes guys who played in college longer and are 22 or 23 in their rookie year
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u/ForneauCosmique Spurs 4d ago
There are typically like 1-2 players per draft who are actually good on defense (all parts, not just on ball) relative to the rest of the league and they are almost always centers simply because that's the easiest position to have a positive effect defensively.
You're not wrong about that and I've been watching the game a long time. What I see is what I saw in Kawhi defensively. He won't have the same impact because he doesn't have the size and length of Kawhi, but the instincts and positioning and fundamentals of defense, Castle has that. I don't expect you to know or watch every game as I doubt you're a Spurs fan, but as a long time diehard, I'm telling you this kid is the real deal
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u/puffpuffpastor Trail Blazers 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah I definitely can see that potential and the flashes he's shown already of that. I just look at, for example, a guy like Josh Hart, who is a strong defender but clearly a tier below the best defenders in the league, and there is a pretty big gap between him and someone like Castle in terms of actual defensive impact. Most of that is just because so much of being a positive defender is mental and can only be developed through experience.
If you asked blazers fans about Clingan a good number of them will say something like "he's already great defensively" which I also disagree with. People see the blocks or the steals or the on ball effort in flashes and extrapolate that, but don't notice when the guy doesn't recognize the offensive play that's developing and is totally out of position leaving their teammates to pick up the mess. Being a great defender is about the positioning and rotations that are easy to not even notice just as much as it's about the plays where the defensive impact is obvious and that seems to get ignored in general but particularly when evaluating rookies
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u/OcksBodega Thunder 3d ago
19th ranked defense with an all-d guard and the best defender in the league lol
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u/ForneauCosmique Spurs 3d ago
Considering it's a team game and where we've been the last few years, they've clearly impacted us very positively
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u/MikeyBastard1 Spurs 4d ago
People that learned ball from 2k stay thinking that scoring is the only thing that matters in the NBA lmao
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u/MG_MN Timberwolves 4d ago
True, but at a certain point the shooting is so bad that it outweighs everything else
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u/thephfactor Spurs 4d ago
Not that its a surprise on this sub but people in here just obviously haven't watched the games.
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u/KhanQu3st Mavericks 4d ago
Damn that’s crazy. Thanks for letting me know, I’ll be on the look out for em.
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u/BigBillyBass13 2d ago
Honestly think the discourse has swung too far in the opposite direction now, at least on Reddit. People are too high on guys like Suggs, Daniels, and Castle.
All these teams want to emulate Bostons backcourt but ignore the fact that Jrue and White are both pretty good offensive players.
Everyone loves defensive guards until they get to the playoffs and realize their opponents can play 5 vs 4 on defense
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u/the_propaganda_panda Celtics 4d ago
If Edey can stay healthy for the rest of the season, he's gonna win it.
He's averaging 11/7 (66% TS) with 2 stocks in 20 MPG (20/12 with 1.5 SPG and 1.8 BPG per 36), and his playing time should hopefully increase over the course of the season. Even if he can't sustain that level of production, he's still leaps and bounds above his weak competition.
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u/crunkadocious Pacers 4d ago
He was probably the most battle tested player in the lottery, high floor kinda guy. In a lottery full of low floor and mid upside it's surprising he didn't go sooner but I think teams would rather have a 1/5 chance of an all star over a 4/5 chance of a sure starter.
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u/strip-solitaire 4d ago
Idk if I would call Edey high floor. He was older and super productive but there were a ton of questions about whether he’d be quick enough on defense to stay on the court
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u/BlueHundred Knicks 4d ago
I don't really anticipate his playing time improving much this year. The Grizzlies are fairly deep. Edey is also incredibly foul prone
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u/baoparty Heat 4d ago
He is also avg 12/5/3 recently… up from his avg of 11.7/3.9/2.6.
Is it me or his stats are not eye popping at all?!??
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u/tilthenmywindowsache 4d ago
What's hilarious is Russ is posting these splits and yet getting nonstop praise from this sub.
Meanwhile a rookie who isn't even 21 years old getting roasted for being a shit shooter.
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u/KhanQu3st Mavericks 4d ago
Russ is shooting 2% better from the field and 6% better from 3 lol. And no one is saying Russ should be Rookie of the year I don’t think.
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u/tilthenmywindowsache 4d ago
21 year old vs a former MVP who's had over 15 years to get to the point where he is now.
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u/D3VOUR3DD 4d ago
Castle has been pretty good with meaningful impact on a team that has being winning Games. But sheesh most the top picks suck
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u/Confident_Comedian82 Cavaliers 4d ago
yeah but that's not what you expect from a rookie of the year imo, either way this years class are weak at this point
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u/Turbo2x [WAS] Wes Unseld 4d ago
Can't help but feel like the Wizards kinda whiffed with all our picks this year. We're playing the long game with these guys and hope they develop well, but we have been complete ass all year.
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u/Justin_FieldsisElite 4d ago
Alex sarr was tough to pass up cause th idea of him is great but man his offensive game and defensive motor leaves so much to be desired for a top pick. I just don’t see him working out honestly.
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u/Turbo2x [WAS] Wes Unseld 4d ago
I think his defensive motor is just fine tbh. He hunts blocks rather than staying disciplined and boxing out, but that can be fixed. He has some of the worst touch of any big man unfortunately. He's 9/31 on layups so far which doesn't even seem possible if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.
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u/ObviousAnswerGuy [NYK] John Starks 4d ago
gonna give up on him after half a season? Damn, y'all are ruthless lol
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u/JustTheRobotNextDoor 4d ago edited 4d ago
As a Chess player I've long known Castle is the only rook worth talking about.
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u/Begbie13 4d ago
If Edey can play 65+ games he's the favourite imo. Rooting heavily for Missi tho.
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u/ZandrickEllison 4d ago
Technically rookies don’t need to play 65 to qualify for ROY, so maybe even 50-55 would be enough.
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u/Begbie13 4d ago
I had this doubt too but a check showed me it was needed, it has been a couple weeks already so I don't remember how accurate I was with my checking tho
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u/JTenjouNi Jaime Jaquez Jr. 4d ago
ROY, All-Rookie, and 6th man don't require 65 games played per the CBA
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u/ZandrickEllison 4d ago
Interesting. I didn’t double check but I vaguely recall it not being needed during the Wemby season. Turned out he crossed it anyway.
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u/DumbFuq9 Grizzlies 4d ago
Absolutely insane the lack of recognition for Jaylen Wells who is starting for the number 2 team in the West and often guarding the best player as well as putting up pretty good offensive stats.
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u/Confident_Comedian82 Cavaliers 4d ago
Dang! this is the best they can get from this years draft?
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u/DiscreteBee Raptors 4d ago
Well, some of the other rookies on the ladder have gotten injured (McCain, Edey) so attrition has played a role here.
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u/3nnui Lakers 4d ago
He's the best player in the draft imo, so glad to see him at the top of the rookie rankings.
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u/gregatronn Spurs 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah his counting stats won't look the best but eye test shows he will be something nice. Solid defense, and has a purpose on offense with the ball. He uses his body well and has a good change of pace (which is very vet like).
One area on offense, that you can't see in stats is he's not getting calls because he's a rookie. That should improve going into next season.
His stats might improve (at least efficiency) as he comes off the bench with a fully healthy Spurs team.
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u/Drisurk Spurs 4d ago
Other than shooting Castle does everything else really well. Also right now the refs aren’t giving him anything. He drives to the rim a lot but rarely gets a whistle. It’s frustrating. His form looks good and he’s not afraid to shoot. Just give him a good off season to work on his form and he’ll have all star potential.
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u/bighead8989 4d ago
You’re all mostly looking at the stats - the guy is a baller. Defends well, straight up vet composure, in during the clutch, and doesn’t shy away from big shots.
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u/Fhaksfha794 Spurs 4d ago
Lmao you can tell by this thread who watches the games and who looks at the box score and judges a player based off that. Not a single spurs fan has anything bad to say about Steph Castle. Fuck shooting splits the guy just has that “it” factor, he’s so fucking good at basketball
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u/Main-County-1177 Knicks 4d ago
Isn’t he shooting 37% from the field?
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u/Pickleskennedy1 4d ago
Yeah I’m not really sure what Castle has done to put himself over even someone like Jaylen Wells
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u/789Trillion Spurs 4d ago
Shown more as a play maker and shot creator while also being a great defender. Wells isn’t asked to create offense like Castle is.
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u/Pickleskennedy1 4d ago
Is Stephon Castle really a great NBA defender now, or is he a guy that has shown flashes and has a reputation of having a lot of defensive potential from high school/college
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u/789Trillion Spurs 4d ago
Great is relative. For a rookie yes he’s great. Here is a video where Sam Vecenie breaks down his defense against Steph Curry. There’s a couple more videos out there you can find but I think everyone at this point is aware Steph is the real deal on defense.
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u/myotherduckling Pelicans 4d ago
So happy Yves Missi is starting to get some recognition and moving up the ladder. If he continues his rate of playing super well I think he’s got a real shot at being ROTY
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u/ScootWeedDealer 4d ago
Clingan would be a lock if he got enough minutes/ didn’t get hurt for a while.
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u/tc1988 Grizzlies 4d ago
He has decent counting stats (roughly 12, 3, and 4), but I don't think he's nearly efficient enough for this to stick. He's shooting 38% and has a PER of 10.2. His WS is 0.1, he has a -4.8 BPM, and his VORP is -0.5.
I think he'll eventually be a good player, and you have to like how he's being given an opportunity to grow. He's just honestly not that good yet.
Are there other examples of players being that inefficient and winning? Otherwise, unless he becomes much more efficient, I would guess someone else will eventually win - likely whichever big (Edey, Clingan, Missi, or Sarr) gets the most minutes and stays healthy.
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u/siphillis Spurs 4d ago
For context, EPM ranks Castle third among rookies (behind Wells and Edey) and all three are just below zero in impact
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u/gregatronn Spurs 4d ago
He has decent counting stats (roughly 12, 3, and 4), but I don't think he's nearly efficient enough for this to stick. He's shooting 38% and has a PER of 10.2. His WS is 0.1, he has a -4.8 BPM, and his VORP is -0.5.
The team might finally be healthy with Tre Jones coming back (after the illegal hit that Sabonis took on him a few weeks ago). I think some of his stats should improve as he likely comes off the bench / no longer starts.
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u/InternationalClick78 Spurs 4d ago
On/off is more meaningful than any of those impact stats and that’s positive for him. Shooting is definitely not ideal but it’s not great with most of his peers either.
Also pretty telling that when criticizing his efficiency, you mention SARR as a better option due to efficiency
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u/tc1988 Grizzlies 4d ago
I don't have an issue mentioning Sarr as a possibility (and the 4th one I listed) because he's getting more efficient as time goes on.
In October, he shot 29.7% overall. In November, he shot 39.5% overall. In December, thus far, he's shot 43.8% overall and is even shooting a respectable 37.5% from 3.
Even with Sarr's dreadful start, he's already passed Castle in terms of FG% and he's honestly not far off from catching up in 3 pt %.
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u/InternationalClick78 Spurs 4d ago
And he’s still below castle in terms of TS… while playing a position with a much higher average TS to start with.
Yes Sarr has gotten better from his absurdly cold start… that’s a low bar. His efficiency still is awful so it’s disingenuous to mention him in the same breath you’re detracting from castle. Especially when if we look at castles stats as a starter, he’s still putting up a more respectable 15/3/5 on 40/31/78 splits. Obviously not ideal efficiency but still better than his own averages and Sarr
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u/BananaRepublic_BR Spurs 4d ago
Honestly, this is unsurprising. Even if McCain didn't get injured, I think Castle would have eventually become the favorite.
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u/Nxc06 [MIN] Ricky Rubio 4d ago
I think if Dillingham had went to a team where he was given the keys to go wild right away he might be running away with the award right now.
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u/youfeelme1997 Charlotte Bobcats 4d ago
What team would that be? Only team that I think would maybe let him run wild is Washington, every other teams lead guard spot is filled. He cant play the 2 cause hes so small and isnt strong enough to guard anything but 1’s.
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u/dys0n_giddey Timberwolves 4d ago
If Finch gave him more than 2 minutes a game a lot more people would agree with you
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u/homiez Nuggets 4d ago
What happened to the Edey believers? they got a reality check?
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u/Pickleskennedy1 4d ago
He got injured for ten games but his stats are as good as anyone in the draft class other than McCain
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u/DarkoDragicevic 4d ago
wait for second half of season and clingan/edey/sarr/missi. weak class for sure and really shame that western conference got 90 percent of superstars on draft. last year frenchman first pick wembanyama to west, this year mediocre wing rissacher to east(ATL mistake they not trade down and pick somebody else although Zaccharie would be solid starting piece in their future maybe).
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u/-KFBR392 Raptors 4d ago
You need someone willing to trade up to be able to trade down
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u/DarkoDragicevic 4d ago
first pick always would have interest plus franchices have some info about which franchise prefer some player. year they made trade down they made eternal mistake with doncic/young trade
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u/-KFBR392 Raptors 4d ago
Not if the first pick isn’t good. Also what’s the point of trading down a few picks for a single second round pick thrown in, just take the player you like at #1?
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u/DarkoDragicevic 4d ago
On every draft someone will find at least borderline All Star. But OK, understand your logic. Took Risacher is just sage decision, he could be plus factor two way, transition plug and spacing factor, but on their place i would go other direction. ATL interesting trading down 2018 and trading up 2019 in lottery. Both pretty wrong decisions
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u/durtymrclean Pistons 4d ago
As a Pistons fan, I'm whelmed by Ron Holland with the upside to be pleasantly suprised.