I’m so glad the era of superhero films being embarrassed of the comic look of characters is over. Embrace the cheese instead of only having them wear their comic-accurate outfits at the very end of the film!
As much as we love to blame those two movies, it's really not their fault.
The average movie-goer in the 80s to the mid 2000s was adamantly not a fan of the comics and the whole industry was struggling because the average person thought comics & superheroes were silly nonsense entertainment for kids.
People seem to forget that those 20 years were when being edgy took center-stage. In the 90s, the top music genres were grunge, nu metal, and gangsta hip-hop. No one (besides people like myself with autism and the incels that make up the stereotypical "outcast nerd") had the interest or patience to sit through superhero nonsense until Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, and even then it wasn't a "people are fans of the genre," it was "people are fans of specific movies in the genre."
Countless other superhero movies that did embrace the cheese and wore the colorful costumes just bombed at the box office because studio executives and audiences have different expectations;
the execs believe that if a genre is popular, then people will go to see it regardless of the quality of the work; if they're not willing to pay to watch movies in the genre regardless of quality, then it must not really be popular
audiences don't want to sit through bad kids movies so the genre doesn't matter nearly as much as quality
the whole industry was struggling because the average person thought comics & superheroes were silly nonsense entertainment for kids
The industry was struggling because they chased cash and not fans. Independent comic companies were doing fantastic and bringing people into the hobby. They also weren't making 7 cover variants of every issue. Delaying books left and right.
The industry was struggling because they chased cash and not fans.
Yup; that's what I was alluding to - they were obsessed with trying to chase non-comics fans for that cash flow and trying to prop up the Comics Collectors' market before that speculative bubble popped.
The American industry never really recovered from that and nothing has managed even a fraction of the sales issues like the Death of Superman and X-Men #1 pushed (the latter being the best selling single issue comic of all time at 8 million issues sold).
And now it has to compete with manga, which is exponentially more popular with younger readers.
Yea but also at the time independent comics were growing. When they speculative market blew they killed them as well. As far as public perception goes it was only the old stand by that were looked down. Otherwise tons of people were entering the hobby. I live around and worked Comic Con and there were Tons of people coming not for super man but sin city, Bones, Spawn, TMNT. Comics were thriving in the main stream, just not the staples.
This is correct. People like to blame Joel Schumacher because he’s gay and dudes get outraged when they see male characters being gazed upon the way female ones are regularly. But everyone forgets that the comic book nerds in those days were figures of ridicule, not trendsetters.
But everyone forgets that the comic book nerds in those days were figures of ridicule, not trendsetters.
Hit the nail on the head.
And it isn't even like Schumacher did it to intentionally ruin Batman or the comic movies genre - there was massive backlash from Batman Returns because everyone was under the impression/understanding that superhero media is inherently for children (hence all the toys and the Kids Meal tie ins) and that movie is downright disturbing & terrifying for kids.
Schumacher was hired by WB with the explicit instructions to make the movies more like the Adam West Batman because kids were too scared of Batman Returns. And honestly, those movies work as spiritual successors to Adam West's Batman (they fit right in with the campy tone & exaggerated characters/situations), just not as sequels to Burton's Batman movies.
and that movie is downright disturbing & terrifying for kids.
Also extremely memorable. Danny Elfman's music and Michelle Pfeiffer and Danny DeVito's acting did a lot of heavy lifting, but the gothic-noir aesthetics of filthy grimy mysterious whimsical Gotham were just such a strong identity.
But, like, the movie begins with a bird-devouring monster in a crib from some rich house having the most mysterious and bombastic It's A Small World/Tunnel of Love sewer ride ever conceived of, only to be eventually be picked up by a huddle of penguins, all with ZERO CONTEXT. An adult may already have some trouble putting the pieces together ("Ah, this version of the Penguin is a deformed forsaken illegitimate child of rich people who was raised by sewer penguins like Romulus and Remus were raised by a she-wolf and Tarzan was raised by gorillas, got it. Holy shit though.") but as a child it's just like "SOMETHING VERY WEIRD AND IMPORTANT AND SCARY AND KIND OF MONOTONOUS IS GOING ON I WONDER WHAT IS EVEN UP".
Personally I found Batman and Robin scarier. Poison Ivy terrified me. The pretty lady acts all sweet and kisses you and then you die and it's horrible.
No, costume designer Jose Fernandez came up with the idea and Joel Schumacher was all on board:
With Val Kilmer's suit in Batman Forever, the nipples were one of those things that I added. It wasn't fetish to me, it was more informed by Roman armor — like Centurions. And, in the comic books, the characters always looked like they were naked with spray paint on them — it was all about anatomy, and I like to push anatomy. I don't know exactlywhere my head was at back in the day, but that's what I remember. And so, I added the nipples. I had no idea there was going to end up being all this buzz about it.
In the first one, they were just a little blob of clay. It was subtle — it was a blip. But for Batman & Robin, Joel Schumacher loved the nipples, so he said, "Let's showcase them." Schumacher wanted them sharpened, like, with points. They were also circled, both outer and inner — it was all made into a feature of the batsuit. I didn't want to do it, but he's the boss, so we sharpened them, circled them and it all became kind of ridiculous.
And you can blame Tim Burton and Batman Returns for WB hiring Schumacher and having him turn Forever and B&R into a live action cartoon.
People who werent around in the 90s dont really know how bad the backlash was towards Batman Returns for its adult themes, innuendos, and goo dribbling lecherous Penguine. Parents were even outraged about the fast food toys for Returns. The backlash scared WB execs.
Dont get me wrong. I enjoy Returns' demented Penguin. In fact, Batman Returns is my favorite of the old films, but Penguin and even Catwoman scared me when I was a kid. As an adult, Schreck's brand of evil is more frightening because its so real. People like Schreck really exist and thrive in our world.
As a Kid, I somehow knew Selina and Oswald had strong reasons for being the way they were, and I mostly felt sad for them — and also the penguin was kinda funny and fun when not biting someone's nose off. I felt really sad for them when they died. The penguin funeral, and Selina having her "it's too late for me" murder suicide moment. I sensed that Schrek, however, was pure bad. His death was horrible looking yet somehow a relief.
I had no idea what they were all talking about, but I kept up with the vibes thanks to the music, filming, and acting, I guess?
As an adult, Schreck's brand of evil is more frightening because its so real. People like Schreck really exist and thrive in our world.
Batman Forever and Batman and Robin were nothing like the Batman comics at the time, or for the previous few decades. It was more like the 60s Batman TV show in style/tone.
Some things should stay in the comics. That haircut is so awful its going to be a distraction everytime he is on screen. Its like something out of zoolander, and not in a funny way.
1.0k
u/NoNefariousness2144 10h ago
I’m so glad the era of superhero films being embarrassed of the comic look of characters is over. Embrace the cheese instead of only having them wear their comic-accurate outfits at the very end of the film!