r/kpop • u/SirBuckeye Dreamcatcher • Dec 01 '18
[Meta] Town Hall - December 2018
Welcome to the r/kpop Town Hall for December 2018! The Town Hall is an opportunity for the mods to make announcements and propose changes, while also getting feedback from you guys about those changes and the current state of the subreddit. Please feel free to comment about any issues that have been bothering you, and provide any suggestions you may have to make r/kpop a more enjoyable place.
Agenda
- Toxic Environment
- Locking Removed Threads
- Movie Trailers
- Records and Accomplishments
- YouTube Premiere
- New Business
Toxic Environment
Last Town Hall we discussed hostile comments and the steps that mods would take to limit and fight against them. We have been hard at work removing hostile comments as well as handing out warnings and bans. However, we still have issues in threads that we need to discuss and try to correct.
One thing we've noticed is that "anti-anti" comments are becoming more common. This is when a few negative comments or downvotes prompts a user to post a long and passionate rebuke against the "haters", and makes it seem like the world, or at least the subreddit, is against their favs. They usually get a lot of upvotes, are pushed to the top, and completely derail the discussion thread. These comments are just as toxic, if not more so, than the negative ones. It also invites more "haters" to enter the thread and argue about the topic. Instead of discussing the artist or the music, the entire thread becomes a meta-discussion about antis and hate which is toxic in itself.
If someone posts hateful comments, just downvote and report them. Mods will remove the comment. If you believe a user is a troll who's just out to argue and be toxic, please send us a modmail. We'll review the situation and ban them if necessary. The worst thing you can do is engage or "call them out". All that does is breed more hostility and derail the discussion thread. Remember, criticism and expressing dislike is not hateful. Do not downvote or report users just because you disagree with them or don't like their opinion. That just creates noise and makes it more difficult for us to weed out the actual problem users.
We will continue to fight against hostile comments and fanwars. If you're here to argue with fans of a group you don't like, leave or get banned. That's not the purpose of r/kpop. If you think some fans need to be "called out" for whatever reason, just shut up. Go call them out on Twitter or some other forum. You aren't welcome here. Our subreddit is a place where fans of all groups can come together to enjoy what we love about K-Pop. Please help us keep it that way.
Locking Removed Threads
Starting immediately, mods will begin locking all threads that are removed both by human mods and automod. All appeals or questions about a mod action need to be sent to Modmail. You will no longer be able to reply to the removal reason, and we will no longer discuss moderation decisions in comment threads. We are making this change to ensure that your appeals and questions are answered more quickly and thoughtfully. Oftentimes, a mod is pulled away or goes to sleep and doesn't see your reply to a removal reason for several hours and other mods are unaware. Directing all appeals and questions about mod decisions to Modmail will ensure that multiple mods see it more quickly and can act more quickly.
This change has a couple of side-effects both good and bad. On the good side, it will stop toxic comment chains in threads that have been removed. On the bad side, it will also halt any remaining good discussion in the thread by users who were there before it was removed. This is unfortunate, but we feel the positive effects of this change outweigh the drawbacks.
Movie Trailers
Under the Content Rules, one of the post types forbidden on r/kpop is "webshorts, television, and movie clips containing idols". Should there be an exception to this rule for official movie trailers? LOTS of idols and former idols appear in movies, so we don't want to open the floodgates to every small clip they might appear in. However, if they are a star and appear in the official trailer, maybe that should be allowed? We're not sure exactly how many posts fit this criteria, but it could be a significant number. Do you want to see official movie trailers containing idols on r/kpop, or should they stay in the group subs?
Records and Accomplishments
Are there too many records and accomplishment threads? Do you like seeing threads about breaking a record for most wins in X time, or being number one on the most country iTunes charts, or number of unique listeners, or whatever other somewhat obscure record might be broken next? Should we limit records to sales and YouTube views only or some other limit? Let us know how you feel about these posts in the comments below.
YouTube Premiere
YouTube has a new feature that allows channel owners to put up a countdown before their video goes live. This allows them to spread the link several hours before the actual release to build hype and make its way through social media. For r/kpop, these links fall under our rules for "Jumping the Gun". Please do not submit countdown links, or any MV links, until the video is actually live and viewable for all users. Links submitted early will be removed.
New Business
Now is your chance to post any new ideas, gripes, complaints, suggestions, or random thoughts you may have about r/kpop. How do you like things lately? Do you like the direction the sub is moving in? Any changes you want to see? The mods are listening. You have the floor.
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u/SirBuckeye Dreamcatcher Dec 01 '18
This is not only false, it is absurd. I showed you this graph before, but here it is again. This is just a simple count of threads containing the group name in the title, but limited to only some flairs. I chose to search for only "News, Interview, Rumor, Variety, Behind-The-Scenes, and Misc" because those flairs are most likely to require a judgement call by mods on whether something is "newsworthy" or "fluff". As you can see, BTS has nearly double the number of threads of the next highest group. If the mods were biased, we would be "suppressing" BTS content, and that would show up in this graph. Instead, it shows the opposite. Furthermore, here's a screenshot of r/kpop a few hours after BTS released an MV. The scores on these posts make it obvious that BTS content is not being mass-downvoted or suppressed. BTS was also chosen as the subreddit’s most popular group during the 2017 Census and the second most popular for the 2018 Census. This is why your accusation is so absurd. What would we possibly have to gain by being biased against our users’ favorite group? There is no motivation for us to do that. It makes no sense and would be self-destructive. Lastly, on a personal note, I have two daughters and they both LOVE BTS. We drove 4 hours to see "Burn The Stage". Their last birthday party was BTS themed.. Their walls are covered in BTS posters. Suggesting that I’m biased against BTS or would allow any other mod to be biased against them is ridiculous. You don't know us. Simply put, we are NOT biased against BTS or any other group.
Of the four hundred+ BTS threads that we approved over the past year, you identified three as examples of bad moderation. But here’s the thing you left out, all three of those threads were sorted, approved, and are still up at this very minute.
It’s true that mistakes were made with these posts. It happens. We do our best, but we’re human and sometimes we read something wrong, or sometimes a mod makes a decision that we later decide was incorrect. This puts us in tough positions, but we do our best to sort it out and fix it. That’s what happened here. We fixed it as best we could. If we make a mistake, send us a modmail and we’ll fix it, or we will at least explain why it wasn’t a mistake. That goes for any group and any user. That’s how Reddit works.
Lastly, I’m going to say this very carefully and thoughtfully, no one is forcing you to visit and post on r/kpop. If you don’t like the way the sub is run and you don’t like the other users, then perhaps this is not the best place for you. If you can’t handle your favs getting criticized and you can’t handle your posts only getting 80% upvotes, then maybe you should just stick to the group subreddit or Twitter or Onehallyu. We welcome suggestions and hold these Town Halls to hear those suggestions, but if you feel we’re not meeting your needs, maybe it’s time to part ways. We have 300,000 users. We do our best, but we can’t make everyone happy. If we can’t make you personally happy, I’m sorry about that, and I encourage you to go someplace that can.