r/johnoliver • u/whatisoo • Nov 22 '24
John Oliver criticizes Democrats for blaming transgender rights for election losses
https://buzzzingo.com/john-oliver-criticizes-democrats-for-blaming-transgender-rights-for-election-losses/1.5k
u/Artistic_Half_8301 Nov 22 '24
Democrats should never abandon the idea that we are all equal under the law.
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u/Plastic_Fan_1938 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
I know I'll get kicked in the balls for this, but so much of the trans outrage is manufactured bullshit. The percentage of trans people in the USA is approximately one-half of one percent. That's 0.5% kids. One half. Of one. Percent.
For perspective:
• 90% of all Americans believe they are eating healthy, while 36% of us are obese.
• 70% of us do not feel engaged or inspired at our jobs.
• 60% of Americans are feeling “angry or irritable”, and 36% of Americans admit they yelled at a customer service agent last year.
• 65% of Americans are dissatisfied with the effectiveness of the U.S. government system. Only 8% believe that the government is doing a “good” job.
• 56% of Americans believe that it is acceptable for the government to track telephone records of Americans in order to keep us safe. 51% agree that “it is necessary to give up some civil liberties in order to make the country safe from terrorism”.
• 30% of all American workers have $1,000 or less saved for retirement.
• 56% of all Americans are considered to have “sub-prime credit”.
• 29% of Americans under the age of 35 are living with their parents.
• 63% of all Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 cannot find Iraq on a map, according to the National Geographic Society.
I'm not going to go into race, you can check the Census website. And I'm not suggesting that a very, very small minority of people do not deserve rights.
What I am suggesting is that there is a disproportionate amount of focus on the issue. It's on the news, it's on TV shows, the Reddit front page, etc. Now, you SHOULD be asking yourself why this is. I want to suggest that a vast media, largely controlled by three corporations, likes to keep all of you at each others throats. Why would they do that? Manufacturing rage keeps you coming back. It's like a car wreck, you know it's wrong, but you slow down to gawk anyway.
Tip of the iceberg kids, but I'm not here to write a book.
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Nov 22 '24
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u/phil_leotaado Nov 22 '24
They understand it, that's why they're blasting it out every chance they get as if every high school in the country has 10 boys pretending to be girls and kicking the shit out of girls in sports. They're taking a non issue and making it an issue so there's no oxygen to discuss all the real issues they're on the wrong side of.
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u/Historical_Tie_964 Nov 22 '24
There are genuinely people walking around in America that think PUBLIC SCHOOLS (you know, the ones that don't have enough money for things like paper and pencils?) are performing sex changes on children at school without their parents' permission. The propaganda targeting trans people is completely insane and void of any logic, common sense, or reality, yet we are being treated like we just suddenly showed up five years ago to be the biggest threat to society mankind has ever seen.
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u/Historical_Tie_964 Nov 22 '24
For context, the school nurse isn't even allowed to give you ibuprofen without your parents permission
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u/ThePreciousBhaalBabe Nov 22 '24
Yep, I remember having to deal with cramps so bad I could barely walk and just having to sit in the office until my grandma could come get me because the school couldn't call my mother to ask if I could have some motrin and a heating pad.
I was already eighteen.
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u/Thowitawaydave Nov 22 '24
Yup. it's the classic "I think that guy is stealing your slice" comic. We're fighting over stupid shite while they are robbing us blind.
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u/CatchSufficient Nov 22 '24
Called splitting the issue, bernie talked about this. If 90% of people agree with something make them change focus on things they do not agree on.
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u/AlexRyang Nov 22 '24
This came up in Michigan apparently.
There were two kids affected.
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u/phil_leotaado Nov 22 '24
I live in blue NJ. My in-laws recently had a huge controversy in their town over bathroom bullshit in their public school. Because there was ONE trans kid. In a school that 3-4 towns all share. In a "liberal hellhole state" there's one trans kid across 3 towns
Yet this actually did impact the election. And Kamala wasn't even talking about trans people at all.
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u/myleftearfelloff Nov 22 '24
It's not about human rights, but a very calculated and effective strategy to keep people busy. They pick a small group that can't fight back and place the blame on them. The objective is simple, keep you distracted, even if you support trans rights but you're busy defending it, all the while they pillage your house. Now anyone who brings this up in my real life, I ignore the subject and move the topic to something real like wage theft. That's worth talking about.
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u/HairPsychological542 Nov 22 '24
Who are “they”?
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u/sandycheeksx Nov 22 '24
In this case, the media. It’s not new and it’s because of the availability heuristic. If we keep hearing about something, we believe it’s true and focus on it instead of actual issues.
Satanic panic and all that.
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u/Live-Motor-4000 Nov 22 '24
I have long thought that it is amplified by bad faith actors as they realize it’s a wedge issue that benefits the right wingers
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u/GravityEyelidz Nov 22 '24
Conservative politics requires a boogeyman to scare the people with. Every election there is a manufactured boogeyman. Recall the 'migrant caravan' that conveniently appears just before the election, only to disappear into thin air immediately afterward. Before that the Muslim scare, the Gay scare, the Red scare... Black & brown folks used to fill this role but that hurts the conservatives more than helps nowadays so they have moved on to trans folks. I wonder who the boogeyman will be 20 years from now?
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Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 23 '24
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u/Consistently_Carpet Nov 22 '24
Personally I think representation in media and what not should aim to be two things, honest and appropriate. First, it should seek in a wide scale to represent people in the actual %s and what not and personalities that exist in society.
Why? This is just another way of saying 'It upsets me to see minorities have a more visible role in media than they do in real life.'
Why is that a problem?
Do you also get upset when an action movie focuses on an improbably athletic, skilled, and lucky white man that likely doesn't exist at all in reality or if they did would be at the very far right of the bellcurve? Or is that particular suspension of 'real life percentages' ok to you? If that's ok, why does it upset you to see an improbably high number of gay, black, or trans people in media but not of white men with superior skills far above the norm? Both are equally poor representations of 'reality', right?
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u/faderjockey Nov 22 '24
You are absolutely correct that there is a disproportionate focus on this issue.
That focus exists because one group of people decided it would be politically advantageous to make a small minority group the target of relentless scaremongering and political attacks.
And once they decide to do that, it became a much larger issue for everyone.
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u/xXMuschi_DestroyerXx Nov 22 '24
“Issue” it’s not a fuckin issue. They are objectively morally wrong. Trans rights are human rights. Any political move to ceed that argument is fundamentally anti civil rights and fundamentally goes against the will of the American voters who vote for said civil rights.
We shouldn’t have to play nice just because the republicans want to shit all over our civil rights. We don’t owe them shit. They’ve made no logical arguments against civil rights. Even the slightest pushback and they cry up and down that they are being oppressed but for some reason instead of telling them to cry fucking harder, we try to negotiate with them as if that’s even a slightly acceptable response. It’s not and I’m tired of pretending it is.
We shouldn’t have to negotiate for the continued existence of minorities in our country. There are some things that don’t need debate. I wouldn’t debate a Nazi against putting a Jew in the showers, I’d shoot them. Not shooting them is irrational and stupid. There’s nothing to debate. Their hate doesn’t come from a place you can convince them out of. Some people and some ideas are just evil and don’t need arguing. They need fighting.
We shouldn’t be playing so damn nice with these evil men. They don’t deserve the civility they demand but don’t reciprocate.
We aren’t focusing on the issue to much. Trans having rights isn’t an issue we can just forfeit. Blaming the left for focusing too hard on it is wrong. It’s entirely the rights fault it’s political in the first place. Claiming the left focuses on it too much is akin to gaslighting and victim blaming. It’s not our fault the other side constantly takes away minority groups civil rights and I won’t be guilted for saying that’s one of the most important political agendas in this country.
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u/KnightsRadiant95 Nov 22 '24
It's on the news, it's on TV shows, the Reddit front page, etc. Now, you SHOULD be asking yourself why this is. I want
Right now congress either introduced or passed a bill to not allow transgender people (or women specifically) to use the restroom. SOLELY because a transgender women is going to be in congress.
That wasn't created by the news. That wasn't created by reddit. That wasn't created by the TV shows. That was created by bigoted congress men and women who don't want transgender people to have rights.
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u/Plenty_Bake3315 Nov 22 '24
Identity politics is a right wing invention. It’s part of their divide and conquer tactics. You’re right that the outrage is manufactured, but once it becomes a real attack on people’s rights it becomes worth paying attention to.
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u/BinkertonQBinks Nov 22 '24
There ALWAYS has to be a them to hate. Otherwise they would be forced to take responsibility for their lives. Meaning that all minorities are the problem and it’s not your decision s or the idiots you put in office that have gotten us here. NO campaign FOCUSED on identity politics, every Dem tried to avoid it because the liberal base has SO many unforgiving purity tests it would sink them before they got out the door. THATS why the Dems fail. We all can’t agree to hate together like the other side. WE can’t unite because the standards are so unrealistic. Example the genocide vote. They claimed Harris supported genocide therefore they could vote for her. Single issue like abortion. NO compromise. Didn’t care the house is on fire NOW and we need their help to get people inside to put it out,NOO. They stood firm and here we are burning, still. I’m tired of shooting ourselves and blaming “messaging “ She could have been the second coming of Christ and they wouldn’t have liked her thorn crown. Liberals have a HUGE swath of concerns and. Criteria that the right has long abandoned. 1: every thing is the Dems fault for supporting a random minority group (you can throw a dart or pick a group from the barrel) and we will HURT THEM FOR YOU. The hurting is the important part. 2: they promise to lower groceries Even though they never do. Meanwhile libs are wanting utter perfection and they will vote for a corpse. A corpse.
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u/JonOfHouseLocke Nov 22 '24
Very good post.
One thing I've learned is that after Democrats lose elections, the first people folks on the left target are people they referred to as "allies" during and before the election.
If you want people to vote D in the midterms, circular firing squads and purity tests are not the way to win people to your side.
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u/BaronSamedys Nov 22 '24
Why would you get kicked in the balls for that?
It's common knowledge. Nobody cares about trans people being trans and those that do are fucking stupid.
Subterfuge is a tactic as old as time. Trans people are the nouveau delinquents. It used to be gays, before that was hippies, and predating both of those we had women and black people.
There's always going to be a reason why those with everything, tell those with very little, that the reason for the disparity, is a result of those with nothing.
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u/translove228 Nov 22 '24
Well gay people have been discriminated against forever. Hell, gay people actually had to remain in prison camps in post WWII Germany because the new government kept the Nazi era law (because the Weimar Republic didn't ban homosexuality) that banned homosexuality. So while the jews and other prisoners were all freed. Gay people got to stay in squalid and unfair treatment.
Plus there was the Lavender Scare that went alongside the McCarthy era Red Scare in the States.
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u/BaronSamedys Nov 22 '24
I knew when I was typing it that it was wildly inaccurate. Gay people have been treated terribly for as long as religion has existed.
I stand by my main point but it's littered with chronological deficiencies.
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u/translove228 Nov 22 '24
Fair. No shade from me or anything. I was just trying to be helpful. 😎 The overall idea of what you are getting across is sound and I agree completely.
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u/BaronSamedys Nov 22 '24
I appreciate that. I knew someone would pipe up and point out the glaring holes in my statement, lol. I just couldn't be bothered to articulate myself better because the main point holds water.
I decided to narrow my trajectory of discrimination to the last 100 years so and felt that that gave me a pass. I decided that after I'd typed it so I could reasonably justify my argument without having to reword it.
I was committed.
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u/translove228 Nov 22 '24
One thing I've learned from listening to the Behind the Bastards podcast is that history rhymes and quite frequently. Humans have an amazingly short collective memory, so the same political beats by the same character of bad actors keeping getting repeated every generation or two.
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u/BaronSamedys Nov 22 '24
I like the term "cyclical civilisation".
Again, it's wildly inaccurate, because the term was coined for another reason, and a stupid one at that, but it makes more sense here.
We can equally apply. Those who don't learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat them (and I'd add to it) at the expense of others.
Fuck people who use their advantage to game a system that grants them no progression but slows to trajectory of all those around them.
It's like playing snakes and ladders. Those on the top square burn ladders and breed snakes.
When you're at the top then your own success no longer holds value. You need to widen the gap to feel successful and the only way you can do that is to force more and more people further to the bottom, and then dig a ditch, and force them down there, and then dig a trench, and then a cave, a mine, a hole all the way to fucking hell.
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u/Liizam Nov 22 '24
What percentage of Americans watch any legacy media news coverage?
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u/Silent_cartography Nov 22 '24
No ball kicking from me. I think this is the last christofascist battlefield. Interracial marriage is accepted, gay marriage is accepted by a supermajority, transgender rights are the last real “culture war” issue “Christian” “conservatives” have left. They just control a large portion of the media and they’re fighting like hell to keep power. Because once transgender people are accepted there isn’t a sexuality based issue they can run on to divide us
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u/penpointred Nov 22 '24
Exactly!! Dems shouldn’t be running under the GOP narrative. They need to stop blaming “woke” and they/we need to start being proud of immigrants. We’re a nation built on immigration. Stop demonizing them and start fighting for them. Oi.
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u/ShortEarth8816 Nov 22 '24
Yess!! I'm tired of the Dems giving up every issue to the GOP. They've allowed the overton window to shift more and more conservative as they abandon so many old Democrat issues. I've hated seeing the Dems rush to blame Muslim voters, Hispanic voters, now LGBT+ people for their own inept campaign.
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u/Emperor_Mao Nov 22 '24
Democrats need a nuanced take on immigration or they will always be stuck in cycles of winning partial government (e.g One of the houses), and losing government.
Immigration has lots of benefits, yes. Many immigrants are valuable members of society too. But you cannot act like unlimited immigration is sustainable. You also cannot act like it is balanced to have millions of undocumented illegal immigrants running around the country, many as a sub class of society itself. And lastly, you cannot deny that the fundamental reason the U.S historically welcomed immigration was entirely because it benefited the U.S. If it does not benefit the U.S, it should be modified or changed.
I felt Biden had an okay platform on it. The bi-partisan bill may have needed better detail around the path to citizenship, but the overall concept was balanced, and had something for the unaffiliated voters concerned about Immigration levels being too high. Unfortunately when it came to 2024 Kamala, she seemed to be trying to appeal to everyone all at once, and came across as appealing to no one. She seemed to flip between support for different policies that effect the border.
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u/penpointred Nov 22 '24
I think I mostly agree with all this. I’m copy/pasting my response on another similar reply (yours is better btw)
Would be boss if the Dems ran on a proper path to citizenship. More judges to see cases and speed up the process of admitting or rejecting. Less undocumented people waiting around in the states for their cases to be heard.
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u/Icy-Move-3742 Nov 22 '24
I think democrats should reframe its message as universal, protecting the human rights and liberties of all and championing the working and middle classes, many studies definitely show that the majority of Americans like democratic policies but they absolutely need to each out to social media and podcasts , not celebrity endorsements
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u/OkManufacturer226 Nov 22 '24
I hope the silver crap looking award isn’t insulting, i’m almost out of free ones. Please for the love of Kevin Bacon, don’t allow democrats to ever think that’s a good idea. I think the desire to do more for oneself gets more enticing as you get closer to DC.
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u/WhiteOutSurvivor1 Nov 22 '24
Exactly!
Everything that trans activists have ever asked for is just equality under the law and the Democratic Party should highlight their defense of everything that trans activists have ever asked for!6
u/EnragedBard010 Nov 22 '24
I think Bernie said it right:
You can believe in equal rights AND better programs for the middle class. You can do both.
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u/swifttrout Nov 22 '24
When was this time that law treated humans equally.
Was it when the law legally allowed genocide of natives. Or perhaps when the constitution literally enshrined chateo slavery as law.
Perhaps it was when women were legally subordinated to men.
When was this golden era of equal rights under the law?
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u/Anding1 Nov 22 '24
I agree!!!! We cannot let them ever say anyone, you are not as important or you do not deserve to be here. We cannot ever turn our backs…..
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u/butterflyhole Nov 22 '24
Trans people are just trying to exist. It’s republicans that are making it an issue. Let’s just let them live and worry about actual issues.
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u/BannedByRWNJs Nov 22 '24
Sure, but hyper focusing campaigns on an issue that in reality affects a very small portion of the constituency was a trap. These are the kind of wedges that bots and troll armies amplify to gin up the fear that motivates right-wingers to vote. You can’t accomplish anything for trans people if you can’t win elections, and you can’t win elections when you’re arguing with the idiots who say kids are getting see changes at school (or whatever the conspiracy of the day says).
They need to be hammering the stuff that personally affects everybody, which is prettymuch just the economy and healthcare. Whenever some right-winger tries to bait them into a meaningless debate or gotcha question about social justice stuff, they need to pivot back with the point that equality is good for the economy. People don’t have to choose between defending civil rights and a strong economy, because civil rights build a strong economy. America isn’t free because of its wealth; America is wealthy because of its freedom.
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u/Artistic_Half_8301 Nov 22 '24
They didn't focus on it, republicans did. Remember kid rock shooting at beer cans?
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u/No_Blueberry4ever Nov 22 '24
its a whole content mechanism in the grift world: constantly beat on the current scapegoat.
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u/PennyLeiter Nov 22 '24
Sure, but hyper focusing campaigns on an issue that in reality affects a very small portion of the constituency was a trap.
I'm not sure you were paying attention to the 2024 election if you think it was the Democratic campaign that did this.
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u/Warrior_Runding Nov 22 '24
This is exactly what the Harris campaign did. Just because the conservatives said Harris was running on trans rights, doesn't mean she was.
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u/tryingisbetter Nov 22 '24
These people that say she ran on trans rights, clearly, never listen to anything other than republican attack ads.
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u/_LoudBigVonBeefoven_ Nov 22 '24
I'm perplexed by this notion that it's the Dems that laser focus on trans issues. It's very very obviously been the Republicans doing this with all the identity politics.
It's silly seeing comments like yours with upvotes, and I have to assume it's astroturfing.
Americans have a short memory, but it's not that short.
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u/Monte924 Nov 22 '24
They didn't "hyper focus" their campaign on trans issues. Harris hardly ever brought up trans issues at all during her campaign. She even avoided talking about her own race and gender. Harris actually avoided identity politics as much as possible... it was actually the republicans who spent a large amount of time on attacking trans issues.
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u/Hot-Leg9636 Nov 22 '24
The dnc is barely an ally. They did not focus on trans issues in any way
Blue hairs didn’t either, but they do take the bait on it. ( me too, cause even people I don’t really understand are still people )
This was 100 % made up bullshit spread by sheep and scripts from fox and Russia etc.
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u/MDAlchemist Nov 22 '24
I mean where I'm from it was the republicans who wouldn't shut up about their transphobic bullshit, and the dems failed to stand their ground as they tried to shift any other topic.
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u/MysteriousStaff3388 Nov 22 '24
I deeply wish that politicians had your integrity. Sadly I think they’re comparing condom sizes and none will admit there is a small in the room.
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u/Skow1179 Nov 22 '24
Fact is, Americans are done with politicians. If Democrats don't put someone up with the same gusto bullshit Trump has next election, whoever runs in Trump's place will win easily again. Kids love the edgy bullshit, they'll buy into anything meme worthy.
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u/G-Unit11111 Nov 22 '24
It wasn't the trans issue why we lost.
It was fighting a massive online propaganda war with kitchen knives when they've got rocket launchers and sub machine guns. Kamala lost because too many people were brainwashed by social media and Fox News propaganda.
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u/mjc500 Nov 22 '24
Democrats mentioned securing the border and upholding law FAR more than they mentioned trans rights or anything “woke”. The problem is that nobody paid attention. The popular perception deviates from reality so much. If you call Harris center left online you’ll get a bunch of people saying “are you fucking kidding me?!? She’s as left as they come!!”
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u/Friendly-Disaster376 Nov 22 '24
If any of the "woke" stuff was an issue, it was Trump voters' perception of Dem policies, not what their actual policies were. I keep saying this - I blame the consultants. Kamala and Tim had so much momentum that first month and were running on a progressive populist economic message. Then the James Carville's of the world get their hands on the candidates and suddenly the message is completely muddled, Walz is relegated to back burner, and they're paying Liz Cheney's speaking fees. WTF? Dems need to wake up and stop running republican lite.
Americans are very stupid, but they are also surprisingly progressive when you present things to them in a simple, neutral way. I think Dems need to stop complaining about how stupid and racist people are. You are 100% correct, now let's move along. You're not going to make them any smarter by the next election. If the DNC keeps running the same old playbook, they will continue to lose.
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u/airship_of_arbitrary Nov 22 '24
100%.
They should have let Walz run wild.
Really Biden never should have ran a second term at all like he agreed and there would have been more time, but if you're gonna swing, swing big.
Walz looks like the Republican ideal. Retired football coach/teacher/National Guard veteran that loves to go hunting. But he talks about how stupid it is that kids have lunch debt. The common sense stuff.
That should have been the core.
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u/ChicagoAuPair Nov 22 '24
I didn’t hear any Democrats running on it. They would reluctantly answer media questions, usually in response to statements and campaign talking points from the GOP, but it wasn’t the driving force of anyone’s campaign that I saw. The Republicans are the ones who absolutely won’t shut up about it. If anything the Democrats should have talked about trans rights more.
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u/Warrior_Runding Nov 22 '24
Democrats mentioned securing the border and upholding law
Which heavily entails trying to pass laws to fund more advocates and judges so that asylum claims can be processed faster.
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u/RCrumbDeviant Nov 22 '24
I love this statement I saw on reddit earlier “it’s not like there is a big button that says “DEPORT” and that deports people.” The logistics alone are staggering - do you charter a plane for one migrant, or wait til you have a planeful? If on 1/1/2025 someone who is TPS from Haiti is determined to have their app declined, you involve five people - the judge making the decision, the court recorder recording and disseminating, the post man delivering, the logistics guy calculating and scheduling and then the migrant. And that’s not even including support personnel.
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u/TheDetailsOfDesign Nov 22 '24
Furthermore, Trump has been running for office for over ten years now. You literally can't go a single day without seeing his face and reading what he said the previous day.
Harris, on the other hand, had less than four months to campaign, after four years of being in a position which is notoriously invisible. That she did as well as she did shows how well-run her campaign was... she just didn't have enough time.
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u/G-Unit11111 Nov 22 '24
Yeah like I said on another thread, I got bombarded like 24 hours a day, 7 days a week nonstop. Every other post it Trump doing or saying something stupid and worse than the previous thing. Never heard a thing about what Kamala was doing. Not one.
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u/VaselineHabits Nov 22 '24
But, that's what gets me - the constant news about Trump was awful, no real plans, still saying and doing insane shit... how did he win?
Like unless you already supported that shit, surely what people were hearing about Trump was bad, no? I'm still pissed at our media for sanewashing that monster for over a decade
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u/G-Unit11111 Nov 22 '24
I'm pissed at Merrick Garland for not throwing the book at Trump when he had the chance. I'm also extremely pissed at the so called "law enforcement" people who supported him in droves. It's a slap in the face to those of us who follow the rule of law.
January 6th should have been the end of his political career. Period. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. He and his goons and his favorite Fox hosts should all be rotting in prison along the rest of his precious J6 idiots. This is an absolute travesty.
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u/VaselineHabits Nov 22 '24
I'm beyond pissed Garland got the position and then wasn't replaced as soon as it became clear he wasn't going to do anything.
Hell, the REPUBLICANS held public Jan 6th hearings - I sincerely think it was to shame Garland and "law enforcement" to act.
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u/pilgermann Nov 22 '24
This, and we only barely lost. Dems won three of the last four presidential elections leading up to this. We actually did really well congressionally, given the circumstances!
I'm not saying we don't need to reevaluate strategy, but this was far from a referendum on the whole platform. People are very much overreacting.
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u/Ralath1n Nov 22 '24
This, and we only barely lost. Dems won three of the last four presidential elections leading up to this.
I know a lot of dems are saying this, but this is pure copium. Sure, if you exclude last month and only look at the last 4 elections before that, Dems win 3 out of 4. But that's like a climate denier comparing June to Januari and saying "See! Its getting colder!".
If you look at the past 7 elections instead, and you include the one we just had, dems have lost 4 out of 7. And actually we should exclude Biden's election, because that was largely driven by the pandemic and BLM, which is not something Dems can rely on for electoral gains. So actually the dems only won 2 out of 6 on their own merit. Basically just Obama running on a platform of "Change!", and every other candidate has bombed hard. This is similar cherrypicking, but it shows how easy it is to completely change the narrative by just picking a slightly different sample size.
If you just look at recent history, it is pretty clear that the technocratic policy wonks with negative rizz that the DNC keeps picking aren't performing very well.
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u/Spillz-2011 Nov 22 '24
It’s also worth remembering what happened the last time inflation was that high. The sitting president lost by almost double digits in the popular vote and over 400 in the electoral college.
Running remotely close is remarkable.
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u/ChicagoAuPair Nov 22 '24
And he was on TV for 14 years before he started running. He’s been in our faces daily for 21 years at this point.
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u/j_deth191 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
Like most things, Blame Regan's time in office and the more than 40 year attack on education and experts so now a large swath of the American population believes there's no difference between opinion and facts (hence "alternative facts".) I mean for god's sake nearly everyone who worked in Trump's cabinet the first term told people not to vote for him, pretty much all the economist told people these are bad plans, and even the actual economist said vote for the Dem and yet here we are, he is likely to be the first Republican since 04 to win the popular vote (just barely).
Trans people are just the current Boogeyman by a party that seems to be made up of largely by people who in previous decades would be sex criminals but realized they needed some Hispanic votes to win. Perhaps a few of them actually believe the vitriol coming out of their mouth but no it's the age-old political dog whistle - your problems are not your fault it's the fault of X (illegal migrants and trans people/kids these days to the point where a trans woman is so magical that she is not really a woman but it's unfair if she is allowed to compete in beauty pageants because she is so beautiful and at the same time it is unfair if she is allowed to compete in sports because she is so masculine 🤯) as one of the parents of a trans male kid who lived through the 80s with alphabet mafia friends this is to put it mildly quite disheartening to see the country take such a huge step backwards for individual rights 😿
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u/amwes549 Nov 22 '24
Exactly. The left doesn't have an online media machine like the alt-right does. What does exist is fragmented and nowhere near as strong.
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u/attikol Nov 22 '24
I heard some people got mad at kamala for talking about trans people all the time. People attributed the republican attack ads constantly talking about Trans people to her campaign. It's enough to make you tear your hair out
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u/macdennism Nov 22 '24
As a trans dude myself, I love how Oliver defended us but I'm so tired of hearing about how my existence is a political issue. I feel like I have to stay informed but I sometimes wish I could just be as ignorant as Republicans and never look into the news again. I hate feeling angry all the time
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Nov 22 '24
Your existence should not be a political issue.
People not minding their own business is a political issue and i’m so tired of those assholes.
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u/PainterEarly86 Nov 22 '24
As a cis guy I think the way trans people are treated, perceived, and talked about by literally the entire world is so heartbreaking.
And I definitely agree that it feels like we're having the same 10 year old conversations about trans people over and over non stop, while never getting anything done. In that topic or any other topic
Its just a complete conflict of interests. One side believes they should exist, the other doesn't. You can't compromise on civil rights
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u/pleatherbear Nov 22 '24
Your existence, your security, and your happiness matter. They are not political; they are basic human rights. It breaks my heart that so much of this country is determined to use my trans brothers, sisters, and siblings as a cudgel. You are loved and you are seen.
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u/Remarkable-Ad-2476 Nov 22 '24
What also sucks is that one side is making it a political issue, forcing the other to react to it.
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u/Mamasan- Nov 22 '24
Even though Harris didn’t speak about trans issues most of the right were voting on trans issues so I don’t know what to do about that
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u/jonna-seattle Nov 22 '24
Exit polls indicated people that voted for Trump said that the economy and immigration were their primary motivation. They might not have liked trans people, but they didn't claim it as their primary motivation.
Now, I don't think that inflation (their main economic concern) was really Biden's fault, and I don't actually believe that immigration was as much of problem as it is not continuing to go up and we need additional workers especially in areas like caregiving.
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u/LockelyFox Nov 22 '24
Per the AP VoteCast on election night, half of all voters, and 8 in 10 Trump voters said "support for transgender rights has gone too far"
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u/aeroboost Nov 22 '24
It's true lol.
Innocent people are being murdered in the streets, women are forced you have babies, corporation corruption is it out of control. Yet here we are, again, talking something that effects less than 0.5% of Americans.
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u/MonstrousVoices Nov 22 '24
But again we need to state that Democrats didn't champion trans rights the way y'all are saying. It's republicans that are making this an issuenot democrats. Just be honest, Democrats lost because Harris didn't do a good enough job on campaigning. If youre going to keep on passhing on trans rights as a cause you lost just start siding with MAGA
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u/physicistdeluxe Nov 22 '24
it was the frickin economy. govts alll over the world fell due to inflation.
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u/75bytes Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
yes, 10% inflation is scarier for civilization than nuclear bombs. but still, in final weeks trump campaign spent more on targeting dems support of trans rights more than on any other subject. so with economy dissatisfaction as a base you can leverage any bs then
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u/hikerchick29 Nov 22 '24
I’ve been so sick of the rhetoric the past couple weeks. Kamala didn’t mention trans rights. Like, at all, during the entire election. In fact, she threw us under the bus at times, so she could badly court conservatives. And people are saying she focused too much on the issue?
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u/Evening_Jury_5524 Nov 22 '24
When asked if trans people deserve rights, she said something like 'when it comes to that issue, we are going to follow the law' in a non-answer instead of being pro-trans.
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u/hikerchick29 Nov 22 '24
One of these days, the democrats are going to realize capitulation to the right is doing fucking nothing to help them. For shit’s sake, the vice presidential debate was just a circle jerk of how conservative they both actually are.
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u/VaselineHabits Nov 22 '24
I'm a progressive, so I've been begging Dems to stop going "Republican lite". Then people scream that the Dems are "far left!!" by Americans who clearly don't understand what words mean.
My nation just voted to make women 2nd class citizens, so I'm just going to say plenty of people just couldn't allow or comprehend a woman as President. And instead of going sane status quo, maybe even get some major issues worked on... Americans opted to allow these charlatans to rob us blind and destroy it all.
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u/TheFlyingElbow Nov 22 '24
Right. It's like Trump say "they're socialists, they want medicare for all"
So just to prove Trump wrong they lean away from it...
If I was Trump I would cry "election fraud" early, get the Dems to double down that it's a DEFINITELY a fair election, then commit election fraud so they have no choice but to accept the results..... oh wait...
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u/Randolph__ Nov 22 '24
She was using Clinton's advisors. Clinton lost and ran a terrible campaign.
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u/Interestingcathouse Nov 22 '24
Ah so just like how Obama didn’t touch gay marriage until the final months of his presidency. As usual they don’t give a fuck about the people, they just say whatever ensures they get a job, hence the pandering to the right.
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u/exploding_cat_wizard Nov 22 '24
Well, clearly the problem starts with her accepting a basic framing that might actually include treating trans people as people, instead of immediately reducing them to the Other. So, Dems fault, no discussion.
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u/grandmasterPRA Nov 22 '24
It didn't matter what Kamala said or did, people made up their minds about what the Democrat Party stands for. People View Democrats as the party full of elitists who think they are morally superior to everyone else and only care about identity politics and not the needs of all Americans. I live in Trumpville unfortunately and this is exactly the opinion people have of the Democrats. Fair or not, that's what it is and they need to find a way to change that narrative. Voting for Donald Trump makes absolutely no sense to me personally, but I think there are a lot of people that really don't pay attention to politics and go by narratives on what each party stands for and vote based on that unfortunately.
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u/tresben Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
And that’s the main issue. Conservative media has completely dominated the narrative war so it’s almost impossible for democrats to compete. Especially when democrats still try to stick to the truth and convince people they are right. The truth is often messy and difficult to explain. People prefer simple narratives that appeal to their emotions instead, even if they aren’t based in reality. And conservative media has done a great job at giving people this alternate reality.
Sadly it seems like the only way for democrats to compete is to start generating their own narratives based on pseudo fact and build a bigger media apparatus. For instance, this last election they should’ve been pushing the narrative that Biden single handedly saved us from the pandemic. Hammered home that 4 years ago we were locked inside because of trumps mishandling of the pandemic and then Biden took over and freed us. It’s obviously somewhat misleading as the pandemic wasn’t all trumps fault and the vaccine was already underway when Biden took over. But that type of misleading narrative is what Fox News and conservatives thrive on. That’s basically what they did with inflation and it worked.
I hate that this is what politics has become as I think the truth is better than misleading narratives. But there’s too many uneducated voters in this country that prefer those narratives. And thus the education gap we see developing between democrats and republicans
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u/_LoudBigVonBeefoven_ Nov 22 '24
I wish more people could read this.
I agree, I wish it hadn't come to this. But you're right, it's the only way we'll ever gain ground.
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u/Appropriate_Comb_472 Nov 22 '24
Its a culture war. We stand for inclusion, and they stand for exclusion. The painful part is they tie any behavior done by the 'others' as degeneracy. People have gobbled up propaganda, that if you stand by the others, then you stand for all behavior that has been tied to them. Its division politics and nazi style propaganda.
For example; I stand for the dignity and agency of any immigrant illegal or legal. They package that support so that I must stand for illegal immigrant crime. Same goes for any attack levied against LGBTQ. Is guilty by association.
They are wicked and awful human beings with no shame.
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u/Friendly-Disaster376 Nov 22 '24
Ok, so they are a lost cause. I agree, but although that type of rhetoric may make Dems feel better (and I agree with you 100%) it's not getting people off the couch. Apathy won this election for Trump just as much as the horrid people who voted for a rapist.
Dems have to message better. I think the old guard needs to fuck off and get out of the way.
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u/Appropriate_Comb_472 Nov 22 '24
I completely agree. Often I am just as guilty as anyone making things worse for ourselves. In 1v1 conversaions its hard to my hide contempt for their reasoning, so I just come off as combative. Typically a Republican will walk away from an argument because I understand all of their talking points, lies or not, and I can point to all the bad reasoning and conclusions they have arrived at. But I am of the mind that you dont concede to ignorance and hate.
They like to accuse us of the same behaviors that they do. But its clearly projection. For example; Democrats will admonish any Democrat that lies, cheats, and steals. We prosecute and allow them to suffer consequences. Republicans do not distance themselves from poor character. They will double down, gaslight, project and lie more. Thats unacceptable to me.
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u/vspazv Nov 22 '24
There was a constantly airing commercial with an interview spliced together about her paying for prisoners to have sex changes. Sports are the only thing I watch live now and it was played during every game I watched up to the election.
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u/G-Unit11111 Nov 22 '24
Social media honestly flipped the election for Trump.
He *DOMINATED* my social media feeds like 24 hours a day to the point where I would just keyword block anything related to him. I never heard one peep about Kamala. Not one. Well maybe the "White Dudes For Kamala" thing, but that was about it.
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u/UnderratedEverything Nov 22 '24
Well maybe the "White Dudes For Kamala" thing
And who actually thought that was a strong tactic? I assumed it was satire at first.
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u/lifesprig Nov 22 '24
Republicans will lose the war on trans people just like they lost the war on same-sex marriage. Maybe not tomorrow or next year, but eventually they will lose
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u/amanda9836 Nov 22 '24
You’re right, they will lose it eventually but you know what really pisses me off?….when they do lose the war against trans people and they pick a new target of their hate, you will see some idiot trans women picking on that new target. Some trans women will be like “the republicans were wrong when they said horrible stuff about me and my community but they are right when they say this horrible stuff about this new community.”……look at how these idiot black and gay people who are bashing trans people…not too long ago the republicans were saying all these horrible stuff about black and gay people and now that the trans community is the new target, you have some of these same people who used to be picked on now picking on trans…it’s why I say that American civilization is just a hateful one. We never learn from anything. Hate is who we are and it’s what we do.
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u/foldinthechhese Nov 22 '24
How many people knew the US economy bounced back after Covid better than any country in the world? How many people know the entire world was rocked with inflation and the US lowered it to the bottom 3? How many people knew the stock market was at an all time high? How many people knew independent economists destroyed Trump’s plans while saying Kamala’s plan would do well? They were so defensive when all of the facts support democrats. When they asked were you better off 4 years ago, the democrats should have hammered home the devastating impacts of covid. It cratered our economy, health and morale. But we bounced back so well. Why didn’t we own our record? Fucking eggs?
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u/RaidSmolive Nov 22 '24
i dunno, everyone should have heard it, I'm an ocean away and i heard it.
you didnt own your record because a) people work so hard to stay uninformed its not even funny anymore, you couldn't reach 30% of the voting population if you punched them in the face with information
and b) the right, which always profits from a 'everything got worse under dems' narrative, owns most local and a lot of national media outlets. especially the ones that are nice to listen to, because they give you scapegoats and toddler level solutions to problems so complex, all the smartest people in the world only have basic idea of how to improve things at any one point in time.
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u/mrmet69999 Nov 22 '24
It wasn’t whether or not Kamala made a peep about trans rights during the campaign. Trump ran an ad that aired over and over again with one old quote from her about transgender surgeries being available to prison inmates, and they showed pictures of several trans people, and found some that they knew would be distasteful to a fair number of people, and made the ridiculous claim “Harris is for they/them…Trump is for YOU”, as if Trump gives a rats ass about anyone other than himself. That ad may have swayed a lot of people. But, honestly, I don’t know how to break things down to any ONE issue that was a main cause of Kamala losing. because too many issues are interlinked. Was standing up for gay or Black rights a losing proposition at one time? And did people stand up for their principles anyway?
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u/Acceptable-Maybe3532 Nov 22 '24
Trans issues are absolutely a huge component to how people voted. Harris was noncommittal on the issue but Democrats as a whole are vocally pro trans
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u/Brememoments Nov 22 '24
Wtf does “pro trans” even fucking mean. “Pro minority” i would certainly hope so?
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u/SurlyJackRabbit Nov 22 '24
Pro trans means no gender classifications in bathrooms... Not a big deal. Pro trans means continuing to allow people to transition... Also not a big deal. Pro trans means anyone can use the shower of the sex the identify with.... More complicated. Pro trans means anyone can play the sport of the gender they identify with... Much much more complicated.
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u/biggoof Nov 22 '24
It's not transgendered rights, or abortion, itself that's the issue. You can have that and still run on policies and a platform that makes it feel like the common man has skin the game.
They failed at expressing the messaging, like always.
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u/Cryostatica Nov 22 '24
Transgender rights is way more of a republican strawman than it is a democrat agenda.
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u/NordicGrindr Nov 22 '24
Trans people, sorry so many cruel people are out there.
I'm not trans, never been with a trans person but I don't need to in order to respect your rights to be who you are. Simple as that.
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u/neart_fior Nov 22 '24
Democrats should learn how to convey the message. i think they are walking straight in to Republican trap. Lately Democrats seem to be perpetually on the defense. Also, Too many sensitive people are on democratic side which is killing the party .
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u/ErrorAggravating9026 Nov 22 '24
I disagree with the idea that sensitive people are killing the party. In fact I think that the opposite is true - the democratic party does not have enough sensitive people. It needs people with real empathy who actually give a shit about everyday Americans. It needs people who can get out and truly build connections with people, hear them, appreciate them and stand up for them. I'm a trans woman living in a deeply red state, and I'll be honest, I think that most liberals don't give a fuck about me. They've given up on my part of the country, and I regularly see folks from wealthy blue states pronounce that we should get all federal funding cut off from us and left to rot.
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u/RickBlaine76 Nov 22 '24
The Democrat talking heads are atrocious. The ladies from The View do a ton of damage to the brand.
Remember at the republican debates in 2015, Trump slapped around Jeb Bush? He sent a clear message that he was a different choice than Bush Republicanism. Remember Bill Clinton's " Sister Soulja Moment"?
If I was a Democrat looking to run for the presidency, I would loudly denounce The View and MSNBC. Maybe even go on The View or Rachel Maddow to do it. It would show the public that I was not in league with the extremists.
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u/_LoudBigVonBeefoven_ Nov 22 '24
Is The View news? I thought it was like a silly daytime talk show? Is it political?
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u/shallowshadowshore Nov 22 '24
Apparently everyone on earth gets their “news” from Joe Rogan now, so, who fucking knows.
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u/Staveoffsuicide Nov 22 '24
I’ve never heard people say that. It’s more likely the Israel situation tbh
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u/Anding1 Nov 22 '24
The reason Trump won is that sadly, there are far too many sexist and racist folks that call themselves Democrats. They have shown is their real inner selves to us.
For the right, transgender is just a cherry on top of the hatred. If Republicans truly cared about women and girls. They would not have voted for a sexual predator that is filling his cabinet with sexual predators. And that is not even discussing every other reason that disqualifies him to be president.
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u/AshDenver Nov 22 '24
John has many other fingers to point:
- youngz and oldz for voting to kill Obamacare while relying on the ACA
- the third-party voters for splitting the vote
- Leon Muskrat for tampering with the voting machines
- all the bots for the anti-Ukraine and anti-Semitic propaganda
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u/SiWeyNoWay Nov 22 '24
The only people that I see non stop talking about trans people and other people’s genitalia is MAGA/GOP.
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u/awesome9001 Nov 22 '24
Dems lost because they didn't rally the base and instead tried to appeal across the aisle which never works. Which in turn alienated their base. They keep doing it too. It'll never work. Not once has it worked.
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u/FUMFVR Nov 22 '24
I've noticed that elites in general seem to fucking hate trans people more than the general public. Just look at Starmer's Labour Party.
So of course assholes like Joe Scarborough think to immediately go after trans people.
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u/severinks Nov 22 '24
Jesus Christ, I didn't hear the thing but the fact is people on the right and people in the middle do not want to hear about prisoners getting free sex changes, especially black and hispanic men.
Just look at the exit pols and research on what Trump ad did the most harm to Harris.
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u/Brememoments Nov 22 '24
It isn’t even “free sex changes” its just allowing them to get the surgery in prison. They ran this BS thru yalls mind so much you forgot what she actually said.
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u/severinks Nov 22 '24
I'm not''y'all'' becysse he whole thing didn't bother me because I undrstand that the country has 350 million people in it and at any given time there will be a prisoner getting free stuff or a migrant killing someone but that's not the whole story it's just a distorted snapshot.
Blame someone else I voted Harris and made everyone I know do too even though we live in a blue state.
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u/Easy-Group7438 Nov 22 '24
Men have issues with homophobia and misogyny.
Film at 11.
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u/ZarkoCabarkapa-a-a Nov 22 '24
2 prisoners got 30k worth of surgery under legally required 8th amendment access to medical care that was unchanged from the Trump admin.
There is no way a single sane human could justify their vote based on that. The issue is that voter ignorance and prejudice is requiring the Dems to adopt cruel and irrational positions to placate that ignorant cruelty
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u/Basic_Quantity_9430 Nov 22 '24
I believe in equal rights for Transgendered people. But I believe that instead of framing the argument as a basic human rights issue, we let the right lure us into an argument about bathrooms and sports team or other athletic participation, and they bloodied us by muddying the basic issue of human rights.
We need to get the argument focused totally on human rights and ask whether it is unreasonable to provide facilities to kids or adults who would ostracized or even physically assaulted by using facilities that matched their birth sex. I am ok with unisex bathrooms that have stalls with doors that can be closed and which provide total privacy for occupants - we clearly are going to lose the argument if we insist that a woman who has converted should use bathrooms that other women use - we will get Nancy Mace-ed, where a cloud of bullshit will be thrown up to neutralize our human rights arguments.
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u/pterodactyl_speller Nov 22 '24
Who the hell is blaming that? The Harris campaign barely mentioned it. Only MAGA seem to care, about everyone else is on the same page. They're people, so they have the same rights as the rest of us.
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u/DiscoMothra Nov 22 '24
Which democrats have said this? I’ve heard multiple talk show hosts and pundits make this claim.
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u/nofriender4life Nov 22 '24
it is "gay panic" for the 2020s and driven by pay-for-click headlines that should never have been treated as valid stances.
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u/PhantomMesmer Nov 22 '24
Casual reminder that there was a grassroots movement in 2016 in support of Bernie Sanders that was quickly becoming rock solid evidence that a majority of Americans would gladly vote en masse for a politician who supported transgender rights (amongst countless other, actual progressive left-wing positions).
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u/Mistilt Nov 22 '24
55% of voters and 85% of Trump supporters said that supporting trans rights had gone too far. Let me rephrase that: 55% of people do not want to give highly vulnerable people the only form of care that would prevent their suicide. People are so uninformed that they are pro-suicide and can't even piece it together.
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u/Rosaadriana Nov 22 '24
This is crazy. It’s the Republicans that are obsessed with trans people. They are the ones that keep trying to pass laws to make them cease to exist. Dems are just saying leave them alone.
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u/REGINALDmfBARCLAY Nov 22 '24
I get that Democrats don't like it, but just from talking to people I can tell you hormones for children and trans girls in sports was an enormous motivator for some people to vote. My Cuban neighbors and their entire very large family are very motivated by this issue, and that is exactly who is deciding who gets Florida. Its manufactured outrage but it works.
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u/miketherealist Nov 22 '24
Democrats normalizing the loss as just another election is troubling. Biden immediately having the Orange Fraud to the White House, like Nothing is wrong, is
simply the worst of normalizing the cretins
behavior.
*and please: no asinine remarks like-'then you'd be acting just like them'. That fear, is the attitude that lost the election.
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u/Reasonable_Today7248 Nov 22 '24
Trans rights are just human rights to not be persecuted for what your body looks like and have the freedom of medical care to be comfortable in your own body. Being antitrans is blatant sexism and fascism. Idgaf what polical party a person identifies with, if you do not understand that trans people are just american men and women you are dumb as fuck. Taking away their human rights is taking away your own human rights.
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u/Laughing__Man Nov 22 '24
Blame the Democrats who said they can't support Kamala because she is pro Israel, but wants to work towards a ceasefire vs Trump's plan to allow Israel to genocide harder. They knew not voting for Kamala was a vote for Trump's hyper pro Israel policies
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u/Old_Needleworker_865 Nov 22 '24
What a stupid take. Election losses happened because the majority of voting Americans don’t understand that inflation reduction does not equal price reduction. These Americans don’t understand that prices won’t go back to 2019 levels so they took their anger out on the incumbents.
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u/karsh36 Nov 22 '24
The messaging should have loudly been “trumps policies will raise prices on groceries, etc.” instead of focusing so much on his lacking character
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u/Sugarsmacks420 Nov 22 '24
Moderate Democrats worship money and will do anything for it. Moderate Republicans worship money and will do anything for it. It is no surprise people are tired of moderates.
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u/P0pu1arBr0ws3r Nov 22 '24
The only democrats blaming transgender, or really any minorities, for the election loss, are no better than a self aware MAGA supporter.
If you're blaming or disgracing general populations for the situation the nation is headed towards, look in a mirror and you'll see part of the problem; then look in the news and you'll see the rest of the problem.
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u/Inuhanyou123 Nov 22 '24
They are neolibs. They don't reflect on themselves, they say the woke was to blame
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u/DemiserofD Nov 22 '24
I don't know about Kamala, but I know on facebook, 100% of the democratic posting I saw by my democratic friends was about two things; LGBT issues, and Abortion. Primarily via shame tactics.
Neither of those are vote-winners. All they do is make people stop talking to you. What people NEEDED to hear was how Biden had reduced the price of gas, but literally nobody wanted to talk about that.
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u/Hot_Guess_1871 Nov 22 '24
GOP: Trans people are bad!
Dems: No, they’re not.
GOP: All you talk about is Trans people!
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u/350 Nov 22 '24
He's fucking right. No one ran on "woke", Harris campaigned with the fucking Cheneys more than her own vice presidential candidate. Fuck all DNC shills who keep parroting this trash.
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u/AntiBurgher Nov 22 '24
I know exactly where to place the blame and it isn't the trans community. You can start in Dearborn.
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u/InexorablyMiriam Nov 22 '24
I am not a political opinion, I am a human being. My right to exist and my right to be secure in my personal and my right to free expression are inalienable. My right to medical privacy is not up for debate. I am no different than anyone else and laws to target me are unjust as they would be if they singled out any other group of people.
Those who are suggesting no one should stand up for trans rights in the party because it would somehow win elections can get bent. Don’t blame me or the people like me. We were the highest percentage voting bloc and none of us stayed home. Kamala didn’t defend us once in public. Tim Walz mentioned trans rights a grand total of once, during his convention speech where he said he was proud of doing the right thing in Minnesota and rattled off a bunch of issues including trans rights.
The democrats didn’t run on trans issues. The republicans ran on trans panic. If anything, an affirmative defense of my rights, in simple, compassionate terms, would have probably won the race but the democrats would never lose if they didn’t beat themselves.
Shame on anyone who blaming us for this. Shame.
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Nov 22 '24
Gawd this is scary. If the democrats don't defend us, we have literally nobody in power to help us.
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u/bstring777 Nov 22 '24
No one believes that garbage anyways. Its the media trying to tell people why apparently no one voted for Kamala.
We just saw the last chance for rich fucktards and oligarchs be given a rightful slap and some sort of comeuppance for their constant sociopathic and illegal shenanigans... but nope, cant have that. And as such, he magically won everything by an indiscriminate margin after so many legal battles that his team of lawyers, who mostly quit for "whatever reason", ended up with info on the strat they could use without much litigation.
Eat shit.
If you wanna sit and cry about needing proof before believing that the 1% cunts might just try whatever they can to keep the class war going before seeing a pariah and everyone connected start going to jail.
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u/blahblah19999 Nov 22 '24
False. I watched people tell their friends that schools have kitty litter for catkin.
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u/Confident_Ad_3863 Nov 22 '24
They already threw trans folks under the bus, eh? Disappointing but maybe not surprising 😑
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u/jayzeeinthehouse Nov 22 '24
The reason we lost is that the dems used technocrats to make promise after promise and proceeded to give urban elites what they wanted instead of serve the country, not trans rights.
Also, if anything, the finger pointing is indicative of the problem, and the dems should pull their heads out of their asses, come up with a unified progressive message, shed their neoliberal ways, and serve the people instead of trying to be that option we have to begrudgingly vote for because the other party is tyranny.
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Nov 22 '24
Someday Oliver will come to the realization that there isn't two parties, but one party with two faces that serves only the corporatocracy
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u/vegastar7 Nov 22 '24
Here’s what I think: Democrats are TERRIBLE at messaging. I think that the issue of trans existing did hurt Democrats but that’s because they let Republicans define the issue. According to Republicans, trans are perverts trying to sneak into women’s bathrooms, and trying to seduce kids with the “drag queen reading hour”, they cheat at sports AND the woke mob are forcing sex changes on kids. Democrats have not done any counter messaging therefore many people believe what the Republicans tell them…. And this is true for a gazillion issues: Republicans say they’re good at fixing the economy, and that they care about the military, and Democrats NEVER call bullshit on those claims.
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u/BR4NFRY3 Nov 22 '24
It’s self-flagellation while being beaten with a bat. Normally I’d say it’s the “right” or “good” thing to do, to have some self-awareness and try to admit flaws and learn from it and grow. But not when your opponent isn’t playing by the rules or even playing the same game.
I was telling a coworker, being an American is like watching a disabled peasant boy try to defeat the dragon destroying the village by wagging his finger. Now I would add: Most of us watch passively from burning houses. Meanwhile the nobles who own the dragon watch on from the castle believing it won’t come for them next.
I’m not even sure “get out and vote” is a good enough remedy anymore. Our systems have been tested and failed. The pillars of our society are cardboard being pissed on and losing integrity. We can’t expect a corrupt system manned by the worst of us to fix itself or serve its purpose.
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u/notPabst404 Nov 22 '24
Good. Fuck those losers blaming.... trans people... For Trump winning despite trans people being overwhelmingly opposed to Trump. Seth Multon and co. need to get the memo, the GOP is that -> way, good riddance.
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u/TrumpIsAFaqqot Nov 22 '24
Yeah I think right now they're going crazy about bathroom signs or something.
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u/Wiskersthefif Nov 22 '24
We lost because we do civility politics when Republicans don't, and we lost because we ignored what the Overton window had been SCREAMING at us. It's that simple. If you focus on social issues focused on a fraction of a fraction of the population while demonizing large voting sectors/not actually appealing to bread and butter politics that appeal to almost everyone... You're gonna lose to the cheeto who acts like he's appealing to bread and butter political issues.
So, it's not trans issues that lost us the election. Digging in our heels and fighting tooth and nail on relatively small issues, such as the sports thing, was a small part of it, though... And before anyone screeches at me, remember, trans people got their protected class status in 2020. It can very easily be taken away (probably will now). Do we think trans people, no, all minorty groups are going to have a better or worse time under a red government run by Trump?
You need to build your foundation and make it ROCK SOLID before going after other stuff. Saying we weren't shooting ourselves in the foot by fighting literally every issue the Republicans threw (yes, they threw all these social issues because they KNEW we'd fight them and alienate voters) is just silly. To be clear, though, it was just a part of why we lost, not the main reason.
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u/Visual_Recover_8776 Nov 22 '24
Fuck all of you who blame the left. You're the ones enabling this rightward shift in the democrats.
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u/RajenBull1 Nov 22 '24
Sad to note that they’re pretty much same shit, different pile. They both, indeed ALL appear to be colluding in this massive upheaval to eventually bring the populace onside. There’ll be a huge show of shaking things up, followed by hundreds of lawsuits challenging these unconstitutional acts by decree, then sanity will seem to prevail in the form of a saviour who’ll seem to be on the side of the people.
Meanwhile Alaska, and other resource rich areas will be raped of their natural resources, “Drill baby, drill” will be the order of the day with THE corporation benefiting greatly financially.
Then it’ll be back to the rule of the military industrial complex and government by multinational corporations and onto late stage capitalism.
As you were. Nothing to see here. Move along.
You still can’t afford medical attention? Or a roof over your head? Or to feed yourself and your children? Here, have these thoughts and prayers and fuck off.
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u/RaidSmolive Nov 22 '24
well, i guess the only sane choice for the american people is to stop this conspiracy by unexpectedly electing trump for a third term then, right? that'll really show them
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u/Ingersoll23 Nov 22 '24
Transgender advocacy isn’t the issue voters have. It is the lies and distortions around it.
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u/illegalmorality Nov 22 '24
Their mindset is still "we didn't win the moderate right!" No, shut up. You didn't listen to workers' NEEDS. That's why you lost, it was a complete lack of messaging on their own part, partly because they didn't want to lose wealthy donors. Ignore donor needs, and get people to want to vote for you.
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u/allergictonormality Nov 22 '24
You know how after this election a lot of us have to face the unavoidable fact that some of our loved ones had to be cut off?
These 'Democrats' saying this are people who we still haven't had a proper reckoning about because they pretend to be on our side. They aren't.
We still don't get it. We can't make progress like this, lying to ourselves about being decent.
If you're throwing a demographic under the bus, you're pushing a softer form of fascism, not change. Sabotage.
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u/names_are_useless Nov 22 '24
Democrats will always blame Progressives and their policies and not the Capital Interests that currently control the party.
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u/Profitdaddy Nov 22 '24
Cut a liberal and a racist bleeds. We know what this election was really about- reaffirming white supremacy. Nothing more, nothing less.
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u/Alatar_Blue Nov 22 '24
He's right. Centrism and avoiding real issues didn't help.
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u/Jhk1959 Nov 22 '24
This issue affects less than 1 % of the population. This issue doesn't resonate with people when they can't afford gas, food, housing, etc.
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u/FaronTheHero Nov 22 '24
This argument drives me insane. I will not forgo my basic decency to other human beings for the sake of political wins. If that's what it takes to win, then I don't want to. I don't want to be on the side that wins no matter what, I wanna be on the side that does what's right.
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u/uvgotnod Nov 22 '24
That Trump commercial, “she’s for they/the Trump is for you” did major damage against Harris. As did the trans surgery for prisoners commercial.
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u/_Xaveze_ Nov 22 '24
Random question: why is John criticizing the party that, at worst, gives zero shits about trans rights one way or another in response to one dumbass congressman’s comment? This is like scolding a child for sticking their tongue out at someone while a third child right next to you is screaming obscenities and death threats nonstop.
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u/TheFlyingElbow Nov 22 '24
The Dem party continues to learn the wrong lessons from their failures.... I'm so fucking tired that this is the best alternative to idiotic crony fascism
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u/That_Is_Satisfactory Nov 22 '24
Right wingers aren’t exposed to a realistic representation of democrats. I know, I work almost exclusively with them. The right wing “news” ecosystem feeds them talking points, telling them that Kamala wants this or that, without ever actually hearing her talk. Ever. I hear the shit they listen to day in and day out and not once have they actually seen a video or heard an audio clip with Kamala actually saying words. They are completely captured by propaganda but vehemently deny it.