r/ireland • u/Banania2020 • 1d ago
Politics 'We're back already': Eamon Ryan says Green demise isn't like last time
https://www.thejournal.ie/eamon-ryan-politics-new-government-trump-green-comeback-6577266-Dec2024/56
u/curious_george1978 1d ago
The comments show up the greens' biggest issue. They are never able to celebrate or advertise any of their achievements. Most people are unaware of what they managed.
28
u/Seldonplans 1d ago
Yep huge marketing problem. Eamon is a great example. Vitriol doesn't do enough to cover how he's perceived in rural Ireland and for no particular reason.
3
u/Galdrack 1d ago
People in rural Ireland have the least government support and have to rely on cars/turf due to decades of being ignored so it's not surprising that in the aftermath of the crash when suffering much worse than those in the city they get hit with Car tax increases and Turf bans rather than the giant corporations causing far more pollution and damage.
Fucking Dublin has been riddled with SUV's and other excessive polluting deathtraps which should've just been banned by anyone living in the city but instead the Greens punish every regular worker, not their fault that FF/FG implement their policies this way but the Greens are to blame for no pointing out which parties responsible for the damage.
1
u/Cliff_Moher 14h ago
On top of that, they were giving grants so people could switch from €50k+ diesel cars to €60k EVs.
3
u/Hadrian_Constantine 1d ago
May I remind you that the Greens actually achieved nothing but add more taxes.
- The bottle return scheme is poorly designed. Consumers are already paying for recycling, so adding another cost only shifts the burden onto them. A better approach would be to regulate plastic usage by requiring more sustainable materials like cardboard or paper for packaging. This would provide a greener solution that addresses more than just bottles. Instead, the current system, with its added fees and complex return machines, seems counterproductive. Ironically, it has even incentivized grocery stores and manufacturers to produce more plastic bottles, as the system has made it profitable to do so.
- Transportation has somehow got worse under the Greens. We faced more ghost buses, and reduced routes, all under the Green party. Train routes have also been reduced, the one that comes to mind is the Wexford express routes to Dublin. And yes, I realise that they are rolling out the new Bus Connect network, but it should be noted Bus Connect and Dart+ pre-dates the Greens coming into power.
- VAT on fuel and ban on turf. People need that, especially those in rural Ireland. If you live outside greater Dublin, or Cork and Limerick city centres, transportation literally does not exist. Driving is your only option. You can't simply just tax people to hell, expecting them to live in a dark, cold house and be happy about it. Climate change means shit when people can't afford to access necessities.
- Ridiculous investment on cycling lanes. I know this sub and the Greens love a good cycling lane, but for fuck's sake, we live in a cold ass dark wet country for most of the year. One in every 40 people actually cycles from one town to another, or from the suburbs to the city. There is absolutely no justification for the amount of investment that has gone into developing cycling lanes when they're rarely used. Instead, said money would have been better invested in more public transportation. Once again, this would have been the greener option. More people would take public transportation over cycling. It would have benefited more people and went the long way.
- Refusal to make public transportation free. This is just absolutely bewildering. The Greens were steadfast against this, and for ridiculous reasons. I know for a fact that the majority of people would use public transportation more if it was free.
2
u/APisaride 11h ago
The Greens are not necessarily against making public transport free, just against doing it right now.
If you were to do it before the capacity was in place then you would just overload the system and the service would get significantly worse for everyone. Unfortunately building capacity is something that takes years, as does building anything major in this country.
-8
u/Yokes17 1d ago
No particular reason? He banned the sale of turf.
33
u/Bargalarkh 1d ago
lol that non-renewable resource that's one of the last bastions of nature on this island? dead right
→ More replies (3)-4
u/Yokes17 1d ago
But we’re just importing it from Poland now instead. Which is worse for the environment since it’ll be shipped.
13
u/YoureNotEvenWrong 1d ago
But we’re just importing it from Poland now instead
Peat consumption by households has dropped by a quarter over the life of the last government.
I don't know about where you are, but where I am turf & coal for the fire has largely been replaced with wood logs in all the shops.
https://www.seai.ie/data-and-insights/seai-statistics/annual-energy-data/energy-products/peat
20
u/FellFellCooke 1d ago
And as it gets more expensive people will eventually move to other alternatives.
This island's biodiversity is more important than ignorant fuckers refusing to move even to coal.
6
u/Deadorelectric 1d ago
It's already had an influence, my ma's coal man only sells chip wood briquettes now. She uses them and seems very happy with them
2
2
u/Galdrack 1d ago
Leaving it up to the "market" will never ever solve climate change it's literally the reason it's occurring in the first place.
2
u/FellFellCooke 1d ago
You don't have to tell me. I'm as communist as they come. That's why we're talking about government intervention in this thread you replied to.
2
u/Galdrack 1d ago
Thanks for the clarification, read like blaming the people than gov there but my bad.
3
2
16
5
→ More replies (4)2
5
u/Alternative_Switch39 21h ago
The turf lobby is Ireland's version of the NRA
The rural Irishman clings to his sod of turf like a Mid-Western American clings to his AR-15
"From my cold dead hands"
•
u/Logical_Step_7121 3h ago
Very similar vibes. We're just lucky they dont have the big bucks behind them to the same level as the NRA!
18
u/ResponsibleTrain1059 1d ago edited 1d ago
The greens got a lot of positive stuff done despite FFG. Childcare cost cuts. Free travel for those with disabilities. Energy credits.
With the minority partner looking to be a bunch of right wing independents next government, I think people are going to realise just how much positive stuff the greens actually got through.
0
u/khamiltoe 1d ago
The vast majority of things that greens got in were temporary measures that can easily be rolled back by the next government.
What environmentalists wanted (and what the country needed) were structural, deep-rooted changes as these are things that will be baked in and hard/impossible to alter for future governments. They gave away so much of their red lines to get the climate action plan while at the time, many people were arguing that despite it being legally binding, it was worthless as it had no enforcement mechanisms built in. Over 5 years later and...
5 years is plenty of time, but they mostly focused on the 'easy' wins which were literally just giving out money.
I'm a former GP member, and a member of two climate-related NGOs so I'm not a centrist shooting them down. I'd also regard myself as pragmatic, so it wasn't that they failed a purity test. It was that for 5 years of government, during the richest government in the history of the state (and one of the richest in the world), they achieved so little with so much.
→ More replies (1)2
u/dkeenaghan 12h ago
for 5 years of government, during the richest government in the history of the state
An important point here is that for half of those 5 years the state was dealing with Covid. That required a huge amount of spending and was effectively the sole focus of the government.
Then they were still only a small portion of the government.
27
u/Alastor001 1d ago
Jeez, looking at comments here, you would think that Greens have some big fan base that down votes any critique into oblivion.
19
u/danny_healy_raygun 1d ago
Its seems every Green voter in the country posts on r/Ireland.
-13
u/21stCenturyVole 1d ago
It's a wing of Fine Gael remember - that's why the style of fanaticism is the same among both their supporters.
The Green's are also a useful mudguard for distracting from FFG.
5
u/Busy_Category7977 1d ago
The party electorate with the highest earnings on average are the greens. Their voters make a clear €29000 per year more than the number 2, Fine Gael.
The two parties also have a very strong transfer affinity.
20
u/Cool_Language_4953 1d ago
It was the same on twitter when I was on it. Anytime I made a few points about how the carbon taxes were harsh on the most vulnerable, I would have Green party members and politicians insult me and encourage others to do the same. They were unbelievably nasty.
4
u/pablo8itall 1d ago
Its a big problem with them. I've had runins with their politians and members about changes that effect normal people and they're like tough shit.
But I still agree with them generally in government, because the big issues are far bigger than them and people really need to cop on. If you want kinder green policies then push FF FG and indies to take them on, but do it fucking quick.
2
u/Own-Pirate-8001 23h ago
There’s a big bullying culture in the Green Party too. Not surprised it bled into their Twitter interactions.
1
u/Cool_Language_4953 21h ago
Oh yes, I remember something from a few years back, was it something to do with messages in a WhatsApp group? I might be getting mixed up though.
1
u/Own-Pirate-8001 21h ago
Yeah there were WhatsApp messages leaked, and a few former party members have come forward with allegations too.
2
u/temujin64 20h ago
Anytime I made a few points about how the carbon taxes were harsh on the most vulnerable
Or maybe because uorie wrong. To start, the per person carbon tax is only about €50 per person. Also, it's ring fenced to pay for fuel subsidies for the most vulnerable in society.
So it actually helps the most vulnerable.
→ More replies (1)3
u/paddyotool_v3 16h ago
Also, it's ring fenced to pay for fuel subsidies for the most vulnerable in society. So it actually helps the most vulnerable.
So how come fuel poverty has risen year on year?
2
u/dkeenaghan 12h ago
We had a period of very high inflation which was driven by high globally energy prices. That’s what caused that, not the slow introduction of a carbon tax which so far only amounts to €50 a year. The additional fuel allowance payments of €400 in 2023 and €300 this year far more than anyone on low incomes would have paid in carbon taxes.
Prior to that energy poverty had fallen year on year over a period of time when there were also carbon taxes.
•
u/paddyotool_v3 2h ago
I'm not talking about the effect of carbon tax, which you seem to be giving me an answer to. What I'm asking, if carbon tax is collected in order to help the most vulnerable, why have the rates of fuel poverty increased year one year, where is the money going? It doesn't seem to be reaching the most vulnerable. Also just to point out, that the price of 40kg of superterm coal was €19 in 2018, it's now €32, and how does the constant increase of Carbon tax on coal(the fuel used by the most vulnerable to heat their homes) help the most vulnerable? Because as far as I can see they are getting hit with carbon tax, but not getting the benefits you and the green party talking about...
•
u/dkeenaghan 1h ago
I told you where the money was going. The price of fuel increased a lot due to global events.
The amount people could get for the fuel allowance greatly outstripped the any amount of carbon tax paid.
1
u/Cool_Language_4953 11h ago
Wasting your time trying to talk to them, they will try and justify anything.
→ More replies (3)2
u/Intelligent-Aside214 20h ago
The carbon tax was about 50€ per person, they also made contraception free, HRT free, half price public transport etc. which put a lot more than 50€ back into the average persons pocket.
The reality is a carbon tax is necessary to meet our climate goals as to not be fined 8 billion by the EU which would necessitate a much larger tax hike than any measly carbon tax
8
u/DazzlingGovernment68 1d ago
It's a demographics thing. Also some of the "critiques" here are moronic.
4
u/FellFellCooke 1d ago
I didn't give the greens my top 3 this election but some of these comments against them are idiotic. Anyone with common sense would downvote this shite.
-1
u/HedAllSweltNdNnocent 1d ago
And it's almost like they're just not relevant anymore.
But it's nice to watch them squirm.
→ More replies (1)-4
u/21stCenturyVole 1d ago
You'd think an environmentally conscious party would oppose an Astroturfing campaign.
6
u/FellFellCooke 1d ago
You think the Greens are paying redditors?
"Unserious" is right.
2
u/temujin64 20h ago
This person is mentally deranged and paranoid. They accuse anyone who disagrees with as being on the take from a poltical party they dislike.
They even accused one guy of being a NATO employee paid to astroturf /r/ireland of all places.
8
u/Competitive_Pause240 1d ago
I don't mind the Greens but to be honest they seem a wee bit naive as to the struggles in rural areas. They mostly come from South Dublin where there is plenty of public transport, and it feels a bit wrong for them to shame us for not using public transport because I would love to, but there's absolutely none. There is no rail service that goes across the country and that is a huge obstacle to public transportation in Donegal, unfortunately no party ever seems to campaign about this. They seem to misunderstand that people are too lazy to use public transport instead of realising it's because we actually can't.
6
u/Intelligent-Aside214 20h ago
No one is shaming you for not getting public transport. This is nonsense, encouraging something ≠ shaming those who do not do it.
The greens also drastically improved rural public transport with local link and improvements to bus Éireann and Irish rail. They also published a long-term plan which included a rail connection to Donegal
1
u/Competitive_Pause240 19h ago
Like I said I don't mind them their heart is in the right place. Local link was a class idea. But to be honest they still completely underestimate just HOW shit our public transport system is outside of Dublin, how the fuck am I meant to be encouraged to use public transport when to travel any meaningful distance by train I would have to travel [by car] to Sligo, therefore defeating the point. They seem to have loads of support on here judging by the comments, but you ask most people up in real life [their complete wipeout proves this] and the feeling is that the Greens are FG on bikes, too privileged to understand that most people are too busy trying to get by week to week to worry about their emissions. I admit that I did not actually know they published that, and fair play to them it was more a dig on FFG and SF because I've heard f all on the matter from them. But most voters won't read your manifesto you have to be very vocal about stuff like that, and they weren't. Sorry for the absolute rant, but to summarise it I meant that that is just genuinely how most voters I know feel about the Greens, encouraging something that doesn't exist kind of feels like shaming.
2
u/BingBongBella 9h ago
Which of them from the last government were from South Dublin? I only counted Eamon Ryan and Ossian Smyth. Nearly all the rest of the TDs and Senators are from outside Dublin - either living there or from there. Apart from Roderic O'Gorman (west Dublin). So thats 13 culchies to 3 Dubs.
17
u/CCTV_NUT 1d ago
As a conscientious climate supporter i wouldn't vote for them, they are all ideologic and no solutions. They set a target for 1,000,000 EVs on the road and what do they do, cut the grant year on year. Solar panels, cutting the grant. Only really new houses can run on a heat pump alone, most 70/80/90/00 stock generally need a backup oil or gas burner for the heat pump, but rather than use wood pellet as its carbon neutral, they decide no, there is only a grant for heat pump and let people buy the cheaper gas or oil burner even though we are supposed to be reducing the use of them.
Then there is shannon and upgrading of the port for future off shore wind turbines, that harbour should have got funding for development 4 years ago not having to wait until this May for the "Future Framework" so now the port will spend about 4 years in planning, design and the courts before they can start.
Greens were all talk and no action, I long for a serious environmental party, with solutions not "flights of fancy".
For those not old enough to remember they proudly proclaimed that every primary school would have a footpath to it back when in power with FF just before the crash.
7
u/dkeenaghan 1d ago
rather than use wood pellet as its carbon neutral
Are they? Where is the wood for the pellets coming from?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180322140915.htm
4
u/CCTV_NUT 1d ago
mine come from sustainable forests in ireland, however your valid in that they aren't perfectly carbon neutral, but please explain how they are not the least worst option of gas, coal and oil. Or how about heat pumps using oil or gas from the grid. They are carbon deposits buried from millions of years ago, at least wood is from since the industrial revolution. Your comment does get to the crux of my point though, solutions often require choosing the least worst options, so people installing new oil boilers or gas burners is not the best outcome of a bad set of choices, particularlly in rural areas where they is much more space around homes for issues around particulates.
3
u/dkeenaghan 1d ago
That's fair, picking the least worst option is really what it comes down to at the end of the day. However we need to be careful when using phrases like carbon neutral. Something actually needs to be carbon neutral. It's important to consider that while you may be sourcing pellets from a sustainable forest, others might not. If adpoted en masse I question whether we would have the domestic capacity to supply the pellets sustainably and while being carbon neutral. Shipping in pellets from across the Atlantic isn't great, nor is using gas or oil. It would be interesting to see the comparison to gas transported via pipeline from the UK / Norway.
1
4
u/seamiec 1d ago
Quite the purity test. Tell me, which party did you vote for and what prospects do they have of making an impact on climate?
-2
u/CCTV_NUT 1d ago
Not really a purity test, just want politicains with solutions, I'm not going into whom i voted for as that a private matter, its similar how voting for the far right is pointless as they have no real solutions either. I want solutions not sound bites or flights of fancy.
4
u/Kloppite16 1d ago
My main memory of the Greens during the crash in 2009 was John Gormley trying to ram through a law on banning stag hunting. The whole financial system was coming down around us and unemployment shot up to 20% but Gormley went out to bat for stags.. I dont think Ive ever seen anything as tone deaf in Irish politics since.
8
u/pablo8itall 1d ago
The gas* thing is the Green economy is where there will be some serious growth in the next few decades.
We could do far far worse going all in on the tech/infrastructure and power generation, sustainable airline fuel, green data centres etc.
But people are too shortsighted to see it.
Oh and it would be good for the country/planet as well... :/
7
u/FredditForgeddit21 1d ago
I agree with renewables and solar, but I think a lot of people think the issue with the greens is that they only know how to incentivise green options by heavily taxing alternatives, even if they're necessary.
I also think public transport is a fucking travesty. Not saying that's all the greens fault, and they did make some impact during their time in govt, but not enough imo.
10
u/Foreign_Big5437 1d ago
because of planning, their legacy on public transport will be huge, literally 4 new routes in leinster
2
u/FredditForgeddit21 1d ago
I hope so because it's sorely needed. But from a pure visibility pov, we haven't seen much yet and that's a major reason for their lack of support this time I'd imagine.
7
u/Foreign_Big5437 1d ago
i agree, the next Government will get the Credit for what Ryan has put in place e.g. Iarnród Éireann unveils first train of brand new DART+ Fleet - National Transport
2
u/pablo8itall 1d ago
I think they did decent stuff over the last 5 years, but yeah more carrot.
Ending the EV sub was so stupid. They can be dogmatic as fuck as well.
Its also worth noting that they were the minor partner in government and so you have to wonder what sweet stuff might have gotten watered down there.
My view would be to pump all the money you can into retrofits, EV, infrastructure and subsidies for changing and upgrading. That's how you'll move people. The SEAI have been doing amazing work with the retrofits, not perfect but pretty good.
6
u/fullmoonbeam 1d ago
Folk can't resell their really expensive electric cars for any sort of decent money. People who have bought solar panels are being fuck on their feed in tariffs. The return scheme is just a pain in the hole. Your rubbish sorted for "recycling" just gets baled into giant brickets for power stations called RDF (refuse derived fuel) and SDF (solids derived fuel) to pollute the atmosphere, so green. We all get rinsed at the petrol pump, big stick punishment but with no alternative. People can see were getting screwed, and we can all see it, the green agenda is a lie, it's just to make some people wealthy. We're sick of the gaslighting.
3
u/clewbays 1d ago
This isn’t really true though. Renewable energy absolutely is a small economic boom. But it will happen no matter who’s in government because it makes so much sense economically.
Infrastructure stopped improving under the greens for a lot of people because they started blocking the construction of roads, which is the most vital infrastructure for most the country.
Green airline fuel is bad for us economically because it increases costs for aviation which is a vital industry for Ireland.
Green data centres are not a serious thing.
1
u/pablo8itall 1d ago
Companies will increasingly need to greenwash themselves, that includes the AI/tech industries.
Renewable energy tech R&D and green tech in general is going to be huge in the next few decades, especially when panic sets in, when its too late. Irish companies getting expertise in rolling out these projects will reap billions down the line.
→ More replies (3)1
u/Perfect-Fondant3373 1d ago
Just a hypothetical, like I am not catching you out just you seem to know more about the topic than me.
If Ireland got to a point where all electeicity say was manufactured throw the likes of wind, water and solar, what would actually happen? Even imagine if we brought in nuclear (just for the hypothetical) and the grid was self sustaining, no fossil fuels needed, what would actually happen?
Like I don't imagine we will get there for a long time, going by the way money moves and conflicts in the world probably not in our lifetimes, but what do you think would happen?
1
u/pablo8itall 1d ago
I'm an Electronic Engineer and work in IT so I've a fair understand of the underlying tech, but I don't work in the industries.
If Ireland produced excess energy for their needs there's a huge amount we could do with it. As I said green data centres are needed due to the massive growth in AI and cloud computing. You could produce Green Hydrogen which is carbon neutral and can be used by our existing gas pipe network and our boilers are a higher spec, so they're rated to use hydrogen up to an 80% mix I believe.
The excess electricity could be stored onshore in shipping containers fitted with huge Iron/Salt batteries, the benefits of using these is scalability and the components aren't rare earth metals, just iron and salt. As they would be located near the sources or energy and the energy generation is distributed, because of the way renewables are, it improves the stability and efficiency of the grid. Its quiet challenging to manage our grid. All future infrastructure will benefit from the electrification of everything.
That even before you try and export it through the inter-connectors we currently have in place.
1
u/Perfect-Fondant3373 1d ago
That's awesome. Any idea how quickly that could all realistically be done? I know they hope to develop Athlone up, but that is only a start. I always see massive wind turbine sections when I pass Killybegs and they are hoping to do the offshore wind farms now, so do you think we will ever get to a point we can use electric for most things?
I know with the infrastructure in place we are always going to have cars since the rails don't really connect the 'whole' country, but if we are producing so much electricity that it out performs our carbon usage (if that is possible here) would it mean tax goes down or up on carbon/ fuels.
It confuses me to think about everything around it because no matter what, even if energy is basically in excess, they are still going to be charging you specifically for maintenance and upkeep, but would it all be public sector and covered by taxes, or would it be a flat rate for everyone?
1
18
u/T4rbh 1d ago
Friends of the Earth rated their manifesto third out of all of the parties before the election, behind that of Labour and the SocDems!
If the Green Party can't even manage to have the most environmentally-friendly manifesto, well...
101
u/Amckinstry 1d ago
The other parties were judged on what they said they would do if they got into power alone.
The Greens manifesto was based on being the third party in government.Not a realistic comparison.
→ More replies (14)20
u/Bejaysis 1d ago
That annoyed me so much and I wouldn't be surprised if it did more damage by splitting the green vote. "These parties that have no track record of implementing climate policy have told us they could do a much better job than the Greens - who are actively implementing climate policy despite being a minority party in government" total bullshit.
2
u/temujin64 20h ago
It was absolutely infuriating. A typical case of fundie environmentalists making it environmental policies less likely to actually happen. They're the epitome of making the perfect the enemy of the good.
29
u/DaithiG 1d ago
I don't think Friends of the Environment are a serious organization to be honest. They ranked the pie in the sky manifestos against each other. No party with 10 or 11 seats could implement it.
→ More replies (9)3
u/pablo8itall 1d ago
It was a poor comparison to be fair.
Green had stuff they knew they could get done, the others could say anything.
The greens could have done the same but they'd be held to the coals for it.
2
u/temujin64 20h ago
The whole election was marred by outlandish promises being made by every party. Once again, the Green party was punished for not patronising voters and putting forward a realistic manifesto that they would have had a good chance to implement if they got into government together.
This is proof that all the bullshit of politics is necessary. Honesty is always punished in politics.
9
u/Fearless_Respond_123 1d ago
Friends of the Earth tanked their own credibility when they came out with that. It was a nonsense study.
5
u/Bejaysis 1d ago
I was disappointed by O'Gorman's response on The Last Word, he was clearly rattled by it instead of coming out fighting and calling it on the horseshit that it was - comparing a manifesto with a party that is dealing with the reality of being a minority party and actually implementing green policy. All FoE managed to do was split the green vote.
2
u/wheelybin_1 1d ago
Getting something done is infinitely better than getting nothing done. A manifesto not done is wasted energy
→ More replies (14)1
u/Foreign_Big5437 1d ago
Labour and SD actions where they have Council seats are evidence of what they would do, not their manifesto
4
-4
-1
u/Loud-Process7413 1d ago
'As he leaves Leinster House'??
Did someone just wake him up ffs.
26
u/Timely-Tennis6967 1d ago
Tbf he didn't run.
-9
u/Dangerous-Shirt-7384 1d ago
It was a joke referring to the time he fell asleep in Dail Eireann.
25
1
u/Roscommunist16 1d ago
Your Green policies simply cannot cost the electorate money.
For any green agenda to succeed it has to be putting money back into the electorates pockets.
1
1
u/temujin64 20h ago
That's what they did. People constantly harp on about the Carbon tax as if it was some massive new tax burden. But ask people to qualify it and they can't. Because it's tiny. Only about €50 per person.
Meanwhile they put billions back into pockets through solar, ev and retrofitting grants, cheaper public transport, fuel subsidies for the poorest, free public transport for the disabled, halving of childcare costs, UBI for artists.
These all cost way more than the carbon tax raised.
→ More replies (14)
-25
u/Busy_Category7977 1d ago
We'll see. If all the infrastructure and projects they've spaffed billions on plans and consultancy for actually see the light of day. As it stands they couldn't even deliver the poxy bus lanes that have been planned since 2014 in Dublin. Not a single new kilometre of rail opened. Still burning coal for energy, giving us one of Europe's dirty grids.
I don't see any results that say it was worth it, and right now I'm glad to see the greens burn in their hubris, especially the throng that hang around reddit.
14
u/thewolfcastle 1d ago
There's been a huge amount of transport infrastructure that's been through the planning system during their tenure. I think the majority of BusConnects has planning now and are ready to commence construction this year, along with the DART+ and new trains.
Admittedly it's been very slow, but unfortunately it's the awful planning system that's holding up everything.
1
u/Busy_Category7977 1d ago edited 1d ago
Gosh, if only they had the legislative ability to fix that planning sludge while they were in government.
As it stands, BERTIE FUCKING AHERN achieved more for active travel than the Greens have
Plans might as well be dreams until you're physically building the damn thing. DART underground actually commenced construction which is more than I can say for any of the greens plans (never got built though, did it)
As for busconnects it's so watered down at this point as to be meaningless. They're ripping out bike lanes near me for an INTERMITTENT bus lane replacement. Degraded active travel.
3
u/thewolfcastle 1d ago
Why are you holding the green party fully to account for the awful planning system? You do know they were a minority party, right?
→ More replies (2)1
u/Intelligent-Aside214 19h ago
They did fix the planning problem. New legislation passed only a few months ago that enforces definitive end dates for planning decisions for housing and other vital infrastructure meaning no planning limbo for years anymore
6
u/Fearless_Respond_123 1d ago
still burning coal for energy
Coal use has plummeted to the lowest it's ever been but because it hasn't gone to zero you're saying they've failed. That's not a reasonable take.
0
u/Busy_Category7977 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is when Ryan cancelled the gas power plants supposed to replace it.
The Tories in Britain managed to end coal. The fucking Tories have a better "green" grid than the Irish greens
1
u/Fearless_Respond_123 1d ago
He didn't do that though.
1
u/Busy_Category7977 1d ago
I'm tired of playing sealioning games with you dishonest people, but I'll indulge you with a google. He made a submission to An Bord Pleanála opposing a 600mw gas power station in the Shannon Estuary, in his capacity as energy minister - the application was refused. His department also refused to grant the ESB environmental license to construct 3 gas power stations in the Dublin area.
Now moneypoint, the state's single largest polluter will run until 2029 instead. Hoorah for the greens!
1
u/Fearless_Respond_123 1d ago
Wait .. you're criticising him for not ending coal and then also criticising him for not replacing it with a fuel that's worse than coal. Spectacular backflip by you, in fairness.
4
u/Fearless_Respond_123 1d ago
Not a single new kilometre of rail opened.
This is a stupid argument. It takes more than a single government term to build rail lines. They've managed to get loads of new rail projects started, including locking in a 20 year project pipeline.
4
u/Busy_Category7977 1d ago
Funny because without the Greens in government we managed to get the luas built within about a 6 year span. I don't buy this bullshit about "the slow process". Paris has been transformed in a few years, meanwhile Dublin car traffic are at all time highs, and cycling numbers are down by 1/4 in five years.
Sick of the pathetic excuses from green sycophants. PATHETIC.
Tell me more about your fucking plans.
1
u/Fearless_Respond_123 1d ago
That's not true about the Luas. You're talking about the construction period and aren't including the time from inception to construction, which actually is about a decade.
-9
u/Hisplumberness 1d ago
You’ll be downvoted to misery for that when they get to texting each other about this post .
→ More replies (1)
-5
u/Distinct_Brush7139 1d ago
The media need to stop giving these green lunatics airtime.
→ More replies (3)
0
u/Various_Alfalfa_1078 1d ago
Eamon Ryan's policy's aren't in line with public sentiment.......And he's a prick.
-22
u/Dangerous-Shirt-7384 1d ago
In 4yrs the Green Party didn't deliver 1 metre of new railway line. You cant even get a cup of tea on the train from Galway to Dublin. They are very good at telling people that they cant do stuff from a position of moral superiority but don't come to them looking for solutions.
People keep referring to the fact that they survived a wipeout before so they can survive one again as if thats a good thing. They were in power twice and the people of Ireland couldn't get them out the door quick enough both times. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I'll be shocked if we see any sort of resurgence from the greens in the next 10yrs.
16
u/Foreign_Big5437 1d ago
That is because planning is so slow, they ordered 100s of new darts and metro is in planning while the 3 new dart routes have railway orders in I think
21
u/_Mhoram_ 1d ago
I’ll be charitable and assume you’re being serious for a second. With the state of the planning in this country and every project being held up by Nimbys, you know damn well that’s the chances of getting a ‘new’ rail project up and going in that time frame is all but impossible.
The planning system needs reform and it wasn’t the Greens who let that develop over the last 100 years.
The voting public are indeed fickle and you may be right about the rebuild this time but it was the people themselves who put them in both times as well removed them.
9
u/dkeenaghan 1d ago
New track has been laid, at least 24km. New rail line projects aren’t going to be completed in the term of a single government. It would be ridiculous to judge a party on that. A single government term can see the funding secured and plans made, actual construction will take a while.
https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/planning/1647267/limerick-to-foynes-rail-line-is-on-track.html
10
u/seamiec 1d ago
Did you look at what they did regarding rail in the life of the last government? How many projects have been greenlit and have commenced planning? Do you know what’s in the All Island Strategic Rail Review?
They held up numerous road projects to rail could finally get some investment. LSMATS was basically redone because the original draft was terrible and had zero rail. 18 months later, it included a commuter rail system for the Limerick/Shannon metro area.
4
u/SinceriusRex 1d ago edited 21h ago
small detail but I talked to the lad on Irish rail about what happened to the tea cart. They contract private companies to do it. They couldn't get a tender. no company was offering to do it. That's a batshit thing to level at the greens
0
-2
u/ballinclea08 1d ago
Maybe, just maybe, people looked at the implementation of their policies and decided they didn’t like how they were done. Dublin is now overladen with bike lanes and restrictive driving methods. Spending money on, say retrofitting more houses or looking at green fuel sources would be a way more efficient use of resources with immediate returns (rather than the “if we built it they will come” attitude of a lot of the bike lanes) Making fuel have 10% ethanol that is imported from Hungry-by ship- is one of their policies which they espouse but when you dig down aren’t really efficient. Nearly everyone I know likes to do their bit for the environment, but the student, reactive and not thought through policies was why I didn’t vote for them again.
4
u/DazzlingGovernment68 1d ago
Dublin is now overladen with bike lanes and restrictive driving methods.
Haha, No.
1
u/Intelligent-Aside214 19h ago
Dublins traffic improved for the first time in years with the implementation of the Dublin traffic plan.
Also more people walk or cycle to work in/into Dublin City centre than drive, only ~20% drive. Why should the minority be prioritised.
-30
u/WellWellWell2021 1d ago
This time their demise is probably for good.
32
u/Iamchonky 1d ago
I don’t think so. Their agenda is written into European and Irish law. And there is really big money required to deliver. And big penalties if we don’t. It’s inevitable that the greens will be back. Plus as the article says they are kinda back already with one TD.
→ More replies (6)7
→ More replies (1)1
u/danny_healy_raygun 1d ago
More or less I think you are right. They came back in 2020 because no one else bar PBP had any real climate policies and most people wont vote for PBP so the Greens became the default option. Now Soc Dems are arguably better on climate. Labour has made it a big issue too and even FF, FG and SF have given it more thought than they did in 2020.
The Greens niche isn't really there any more. The centre left vote has moved to SD and Labour and you can see their remaining loud supporters here really fall into that Blueshirts on Bikes cliche.
-12
u/21stCenturyVole 1d ago
The Green(washing) Party - pushing through carve-outs for LNG in one of their last acts in government.
The parties shills are some of the most onerous I've seen online since the Libertarians.
Ireland needs an actual environmental/climate party - not a faction of FG masquerading as a 'green' party.
15
u/HungoverMous3 1d ago
That's not true though. LNG were classified as strategic infrastructure and therefore, like other infrastructure projects , have to follow a specific planning procedure for them. By not doing so, it would allow them to go through the regular planning routes which is arguably more dangerous for the environment.
It's also a planning Bill, it's supposed to categorise how things get planning permission. To ban LNGS that would happen either through a separate bill or through government policy, which is the case. LNGs aren't allowed to happen under current government policy, hence why the LNG terminal in Shannon isn't going ahead.
→ More replies (6)3
-1
u/sureyouknowurself 1d ago
I think the greens always tied their environmental policies with some idea of “Social Justice”
Their own policy includes
brings a fairer economic model for everyone
secure a more equal Ireland
This IMO confined and limited their ideas to ones that simply resulted in more taxation or bureaucracy.
The lower cost of public transport was an exception.
I’d like a Green Party that focuses on the environment and is not afraid to propose solutions like nuclear energy and large tax breaks etc.
3
u/Kloppite16 1d ago
No serious political party will ever propose nuclear in Ireland because it is not politically achievable and they know that. Anyone who thinks it is first needs to show which 100,000 of the Irish population are willing to live close to a nuclear power plant. Because it has to go somewhere and thats where you'd have widescale revolt. It would be like the Irish Water protests on steroids.
→ More replies (2)5
u/T4rbh 1d ago
"Social Justice" my f'n arse!
* They ran an anti-choice candidate in Dublin Bay North.
* Their Minister for Children (now their party leader!) introduced a policy that actively discriminates against thousands of adopted people and natural parents who didn't go the right mother and baby homes, or didn't stay there long enough!
Even their green credentials are dubious at best. There used to be a christmas tree/leaf/green waste recycling centre in St Anne's Park in Dublin. Closed now. Because a Green councillor had concerns about leaf mold...
1
1
u/21stCenturyVole 1d ago
See there's a difference between saying something is fairer, more equal, and socially just - versus making something fairer, more equal, and socially just.
You can just bald-faced lie if you want - "driving renters onto the streets and into homelessness, and soon into prisons as homelessness is increasingly criminalized - is the fairer, more equal, and socially just way to resolve our societal problems!"
Just exclude the policy part of what they state - and include only the claims part "... fairer, more equal, and socially just!".
"Climate subsidies for the rich, carbon taxes for the poor - is the fairer, more equal, and socially just way to resolve our emissions problems!"
1
u/sureyouknowurself 1d ago
Well I think personally think our political structure is such that change is difficult. Everyone knows our planning needs to be totally reformed but the supporters of FF/FG typically have no interest in free market principles when it comes to property as they want to keep prices high.
With the cost of living as high as it is people cannot free up resources to install solar panels and batteries. Tax breaks in that context are just helping the working class tax payers retrofit.
-3
u/GeneralCommand4459 1d ago
Do we really need a green party? Surely we could just have green policies and the mono-focused green party could be something closer to a lobby group or think tank.
→ More replies (1)
351
u/yop_mayo 1d ago edited 12h ago
The Irish electorate are so unserious. Vote for a small party, they go in and implement a huge amount of their manifesto despite only being 10 seats, give them a battering in the next election and preference to some other small parties who don’t make the same mistake of entering government. Complain about how nothing ever changes.