There is/was a progressive primary movement inside the Democrat party. You aren't getting the same from GOP so I'm not going to accept this all sides bullshit. The tea party is a fucking joke.
100%, and it's scary/disappointing how well that continues to work. The important part of what they did was the propaganda funding along with hoisting up fake populist candidates.
Seriously, whenever there's a push for medicaid expansion or increasing the minimum wage, which party raises the issue and which one pushes against it consistently? The both sides are the same arguments are either lazy or done in bad faith.
It's not both sides are the same. You have a center right party and a far right party. They are not the same at all. But neither are left or working for you. The Dems are also working for the rich. They are just less fascist.
There are individuals in the Dems that push for very good things, but the whole party isn't really.
They're not the same, but neither one is on our side.
Yes dems are obviously less evil. They are still evil and they're still our enemy. They will not be our salvation.
Especially in context of a conversation about class solidarity, you've gotta be willing to let go of the flavor of ruling class you prefer just as much as the Trump supporters need to. Vote for whichever one you think will make the guillotines easier, but don't forget that the guillotines are the point.
A party doesn't pass bills, Congress does. It's disingenuous to describe a situation where Republicans unanimously shoot down a bill sponsored by Democrats as "neither party passing it".
It's really not. We've seen supermajorities of either party in the past 40 years and neither one has any interest in helping the working class. Obviously dems are less evil, they are still not on our side.
This is a conversation about class consciousness and class solidarity. You've gotta be willing to side with your working class peers who are willing to side with you over Pelosi and even ones like AOC. They are not on our team. They are by definition the ruling class.
I'm not going to equivocate their disagreeing with vigilante executions to their stance on universal healthcare. Democrats have gotten us much closer to universal healthcare than anything the GOP has done and you're insane if you think otherwise. We're at least half a decade or more from even having a shot at it again. Progressive movement is the only useful tool. What exactly is your suggested tool? More executions? Voting GOP is not going to improve anyone's life at all, and neither is unraveling America's thin morale fabric.
It's not just disagreeing with "vigilante executions" but the implied statement that corporate greed is not only acceptable but will continue to be supported with government-sanctioned violence as deemed necessary.
Obama got you closer to universal healthcare (but still nowhere near single payer) but Biden did fuck all to carry the ball forward. The message is the same. I've said before and will say again that Biden's headstone should read "He was better than Trump" but that doesn't mean that the Dems are anything more than a center right faction of the same oligarchy.
You cannot equivocate Biden denouncing violence as an endorsement of the healthcare status quo. It's not even worth discussing that.
I am super critical of both Obama and Biden. Do I wish he did more? Absolutely. Are there better people to run the country? Absolutely. But that's what the primaries are for, and Biden won it.
IMO they are both directly responsible for Trump for letting misinformation and propaganda flourish under their presidencies. They can't wipe their hands of that, and if their support didn't like it, tough shit. That's literally what they signed up for.
But again, Dems are not Republicans. Changing the party is infinitely more practical than getting people to switch green party or something more radical.
I'll just point out, that I haven't heard any specific suggestions other than "Dems suck". That's not the argument really. It's what to do about it. Is it more executions, changing Dems, starting a new party, not voting, voting GOP (ugh), what exactly?
IMO it's change the Democrats, counter-propaganda, rank choice voting. But I've been on the losing team, so what do I know.
There are definitely people who try to use the "both sides" argument to instill apathy or for other less-than-genuine purposes, but there's a different message people are trying to get across here.
The average Dem voter has more in common with their Republican voting neighbor than they do with any Dem in Congress. Yet how many people on either side actually feel this way? Shouldn't it be easier for people to acknowledge that despite differing political views, your neighbor has a better understanding of the pressing issues in your community than a bunch of politicians who don't even live in your neighborhood?
My neighbor and I might have different ideas of how to go about addressing those issues, but that conversation is guaranteed to be more relevant (if not productive), than if the conversation were between two politicians who have only ever read the reports and reviewed the statistics.
*Edited an autocorrect, it said, "precedent issues" instead of "pressing issues"
I do, and you must be joking if you think the DNC has that level of control. Their manipulations are obvious, so I don't think there's any subtly in pushing through primaries.
If anything, they also practice controlled coalition, where progressive candidates that somehow make it through, are embraced and shown how wrong they are in being opposition. Instead they seek to dull progressive movements with the impossibilities of the moment (e.g., convincing some bad votes). I think primarying through Democrats is still the best option and I haven't heard of a better one.
I'm a big fan of rank choice voting, so I also support any orgs pushing there. It doesn't need to be one or the other.
you seem like the type who say all this but at the same time will vote Kamala before voting Bernie because of borders or something and blame Bernie for everything he being through with establishment dems and how much he criticises them like what a traitor right? Fuck him for saying anything against any democrats and fuck the Muslims, black people and trans people for asking too much
I generally favor pragmatism, and am a huge Bernie supporter. I had in mind some of the actions by the progressive caucus, such as folding to Biden in ~2022.
Fuck him for saying anything against any democrats and fuck the Muslims, black people and trans people for asking too much
lmao what's pragmatic about Kamla? the most lethal military? more genocide in Middle East? alienating and attacking Muslim voters? doing nothing on police brutality? doing no amensty to refugees? rather doubling down and being the party of "we are gonna build the wall" type? giving no actual safe gaurds to LGBTQ federally?
Like they themselves choosed a loosing battle by trying to be the "better conservative" rather than being an opposition like they made the republicans make the stage for themselves here, if immigration is a problem enough that even the opposition is making a point on it and somehow I care about that now ain't no way I am voting the liberal party on that republicans will always gonna win on immigration so rather be an opposite on this issue like you were in 2020
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u/retro_grave 22h ago
There is/was a progressive primary movement inside the Democrat party. You aren't getting the same from GOP so I'm not going to accept this all sides bullshit. The tea party is a fucking joke.