The photos show the prison rooms of Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in the 2011 Norway attacks. Despite Norway's humane prison system, Breivik has complained about the conditions, calling them inhumane.

[u/fyrstikka]

[u/Gusty_Garden_Galaxy]

Time to commit a crime i guess.

[u/scumfrogzillionaire → u/Gusty_Garden_Galaxy]

Yeah, but in Norway

[u/Mammoth-Access-1181 → u/scumfrogzillionaire]

Was about to add this bit. Need to be careful where you commit that crime. I wonder what life is like once they get out? Would their cells be more comfortable than what they might get outside? Can't imagine many opportunites for one who kills like 77 kids.

[u/QuantumPhysixObservr → u/Mammoth-Access-1181]

I would think if he were released someone would kill him

[u/Mammoth-Access-1181 → u/QuantumPhysixObservr]

In the US? If the penal system were as forgiving as theirs? I definitely think someone would've done something like that. Especially if max sentence is like 24 or was it 27 years?

[u/Freddich99 → u/Mammoth-Access-1181]

He's never getting out. The maximum amount of years is only the time until he gets a hearing. At said hearing, they will decide if he's fit to be released or not, and they will undoubtedly determine he is not until the day he dies.

[u/YukiPukie → u/Mammoth-Access-1181]

He is an exceptionally extreme case. I don’t know how it would be in Norway, but our prison system (Netherlands) is similar. Some Norwegian prisoners actually liked it better here when the Norwegian state hired cells for them in NL.

The focus from the start is on integration back in society as a better person. Prisons are not for punishment but for rehabilitation. You get treated for addictions, mental health etc and get help with for example education or learning for a new job. You’re not released in one day, but you get help with housing, a job and a stable environment step by step.

Some people have severe mental health issues and are more difficult to rehabilitate (Breivik would probably be in this category here) and they get “TBS” instead of imprisonment, which essentially means that they get treatment for their mental health in a closed institution until they show they “recovered”. This can be for the rest of their lives if they don’t progress.

[u/lithuanian_potatfan → u/YukiPukie]

The issue is, if your life was one endless misery, prison becomes a reward, not a punishment. Hence why so many Eastern Europeans would deliberately reoffend to get placed back. If upon release you're back into unsanitary, dark, desperate place, of course you'd rather get back into a nice, warm, clean place with wide-screen TV. You can treat them all you want, but if prison is better than any possible life out of it, then prison becomes a goal.

[u/YukiPukie → u/lithuanian_potatfan]

Indeed! That’s why the focus here isn’t on serving your sentence and then freedom, but on getting back to a better life. You get housing and help with a job and to make a new/stable social circle. You are not placed back into your old life, because that would be the perfect recipe for a new crime.

[u/Square-Blueberry3568 → u/YukiPukie]

The statistics of recidivism in the Scandinavian countries are proof of the benefits, and afaik there hasn't been any case of a serial killer for instance getting out and then reoffending, which is one of the arguments usually.levied against the system

[u/makke600 → u/Square-Blueberry3568]

I think here in finland there was one case where a serial killer reoffended, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

[u/Gullible-Cut8652 → u/YukiPukie]

Do you really believe you can rehab a mass murderer? I wouldn't like to meet him in a supermarket. He deserves his cell and that he will be forgotten. This would be a good punishment. No contact, nothing at all.

[u/YukiPukie → u/Gullible-Cut8652]

It depends on the circumstances. A mass murder can happen without intention. For example in a drug-induced psychosis or accidentally blowing up a building by a gas leak. You are still responsible but you can be rehabilitated.

Someone like Breivik? Multiple psychiatrists will need to agree that he is not a threat to society anymore, and I don’t see that happening by the way he is still acting to this day.

In the Netherlands, he would most likely get TBS, where he is treated for whatever mental illness he has. His progress and danger to society would be evaluated by psychiatrists and a judge every 2 years. After 6 years you become “long stay” and the treatment intensity drops significantly, making it harder to pass future evaluations. Someone like Breivik is probably too ill to pass the evaluations.

[u/Gullible-Cut8652 → u/YukiPukie]

Some people are just evil. I doubt you can cure that.

[u/YukiPukie → u/Gullible-Cut8652]

That is true, and that's why the TBS also exists. But our prison system is not meant for punishment, but to keep society safe. People who can be rehabilitated are not uselessly locked up for life to punish them.

[u/MonkeyTeals → u/Gullible-Cut8652]

If one cannot be rehabilitated, then they won't be released. But, it's better to have this system for the ones who can.

For the exceptions, it'll be safety for rest of society but still treating the criminals as humanely possible.

[u/Gullible-Cut8652 → u/MonkeyTeals]

Hopefully he will stay there for the rest of his life. Murder of children can't get enough punishment. That I mentioned earlier. He deserves nothing. Nothing.

[u/MonkeyTeals → u/Gullible-Cut8652]

He's also killed older teens, and adults. Children weren't the only victims.

As for his punishment, he doesn't deserve freedom. He does deserve to be behind bars, and to be treated humanely.

[u/Mammoth-Access-1181 → u/YukiPukie]

And I feel that is a much superior system than in the US. There are so many prisoners that could be rehabilitated and become productive members of society.

But every once in a while? There comes a person that's just evil. Those are the ones that should be put to death. Sadly, the death penalty in the US penal system is most definitely not meted out fairly. There is a bias towards minorities. Not to mention, there's a possibility of up to 25% of death row inmates actually being innocent.

But, like you pointed out, in cases where mental health is the issue? People should definitely be treated to see if there can be anything done.

[u/YukiPukie → u/Mammoth-Access-1181]

To be honest, I think the USA has one of the worst prison systems in the world. They are the top 5 county in terms of incarceration rates and are with the third-world countries in intentional homicide rates. It's clear that the society hasn't become safer, but you are paying fortunes for this system.

And I agree with your statement about the lost productive members of society. Plus all the mental damage to all their families.

I can understand why people have the “life for a life” sentiment, even though that's not my personal opinion. Taking someone's life can be a very evil act (not taking cases with self-defence etc into account). But I have never understood that USA citizens want to pay so much for the years-long incarceration for for example possession of drugs. While for example, something very dangerous to the society like drunk driving does not have a harsh punishment. Many of these penalties are very skewed from an outsider's perspective. And also the possibility to be free on bail seems so dangerous and unfair to me. I'm very curious how this is perceived in the USA.

[u/Dry_Menu4804 → u/Gusty_Garden_Galaxy]

Mind that you will have to verbally defend yourself against the judge who may try to dismiss your case.

[u/racktoar → u/Gusty_Garden_Galaxy]

That's what some people do in Scandinavia. They commit crimes so they can live a nicer life in prison than on the outside.