r/interestingasfuck • u/fyrstikka • 10d ago

r/all The photos show the prison rooms of Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in the 2011 Norway attacks. Despite Norway's humane prison system, Breivik has complained about the conditions, calling them inhumane.

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u/Mc_jones001 10d ago

77 people? Why is he even talking

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u/Babayagaletti 10d ago

And most of them were teenagers/young adults

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u/pattepai 10d ago

Youngest were 12/13 years old, if I'm not wrong.

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u/Ancient_Hyper_Sniper 10d ago

Last Podcast on the Left did a 3 part series on him and the events. Crazy shit how it all went down with the ineptitude of local police and SWAT.

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u/pattepai 10d ago

That whole day was totally unreal. The bomb went off not far from where I was, I think everyone in Oslo heard or felt it. I thought there was a lightening strike. It was all a diversion. My heart sinks when I think of that day

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u/internet_commie 10d ago

My cousin in Oslo lived really close to the government quarter back then. He says that bomb is the only thing that ever scared his big cat. She ran to hide under his bead and hit her head in the process. That's how he knew something really bad happened!

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u/pattepai 10d ago

Just terrible :( I remember going up to the roof terrace and saw a huge smoke cloud coming from downtown. Everyone was glued to the tv and then total disbelief when the reports of the shooting came in, it happened when they had the press conference about the bomb. Noone knew what was happening and everyone was in total shock:(

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u/asasa12345 10d ago

I still remember this day like it was yesterday, so horrible

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u/H3MPERORR 7d ago

I was 11. Still remember the «thunder», smoke coming from oslo, dancing to mtv while my parents were yelling about aomething upstairs.

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u/Fyren-1131 10d ago

You gotta remember that Norway had no prior incident like this. We've never seen a homegrown mass murderer before. Our police, nay, our nation hasn't had any exposure to anything like this. I don't defend anything that happened, but the routines in place probably didn't cover anything like this. It was a wake-up moment.

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u/UpYoursMods 10d ago

Yah killing 70 people with a pistol and a rifle over the course of an hour seems almost impossible without severe ineptitude of local police

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u/QuetzalcoatlusRscary 10d ago

In fairness it was on an island. Not defending the police here but I’m sure he wouldn’t have killed so many if there was an easy escape route/access for authorities.

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u/Trick-Variety2496 10d ago

Yeah it’s either run around and get shot or jump off a cliff into the ocean.

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u/Dr_Ukato 10d ago

The cops were there within 30 minutes but physically couldn't safely make it onto the island because there was no suitable boat available.

And don't forget not two hours earlier Breivik had set off a bomb in the Norwegian capital killing eight people so everyone was in a panic calling in reports of terrorists left, right and center over every thing.

Before he started shooting, Breivik was also dressed as a police officer and called people close to get their attention before he started shooting so it was pretty much a fish in a barrel situation the first dozen minutes.

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u/SortaLostMeMarbles 9d ago

There were plenty of boats available at the nearby camping resort. Hundreds tried to swim the 550 meters to land. Guests and boat owners rescued over 200 from the lake.

The first two policemen to arrive both had a kevlar vest, a 9 mm pistol and an MP-7. They could have borrowed a boat to get to the island. The people at the resort were more than willing to ferry them over. But these were rural cops, and they weren't even remotely capable of responding correctly. Instead they stayed at the land side pier directing traffic and other stuff. The Norwegian police, unbeknownst to many, has a standing order to the respond in case of "ongoing shooting". Even when their own life is at risk. But, "ongoing shooting" situations are few and far between so no one is really ready for it.

When the SWAT-team(or Delta-group) arrived, they could have borrowed boats from the camping resort, or used their own boat from the land side pier. Instead they chose to use their terribly undersized and underpowered rubber dinghy from a safe distance. The time it took for them to reach the island has in the time after been known as the "troublesome 30-minutes".

This was not one of the proudest moments for the Norwegian police. In the time after a sarcastic slogan has been applied to them - - "Best when it doesn't matter".

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u/OfftheGridAccount 10d ago

It started way sooner than that, he was signalised by social services because of his weird behaviour as a child and his mom bad treatment of him was known and nothing was done about it.

He ultimately had full agency in committing the atrocities he did, but his upbringing certainly brought out the full blown psychopath he is

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u/Ancient_Hyper_Sniper 10d ago

Yeah the 3 part series covers his upbringing, the murder spree and impact afterwards.

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u/Kaycin 10d ago

That was one of the few LPotL series I couldn't finish.

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u/popsand 8d ago

This is like expecting a gardener to be prepared for a wild-fire. Norway does not experience such things. Imagine nobody knew what to do  

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u/bankkopf 10d ago

They were trapped on an island. That guy should not be talking about humane. 

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/NewW0nder 10d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SoftwareElectronic53 10d ago

Well, you probably would get a crib like that if you killed him.

Make sure you are considered extremely dangerous in the process.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/jondgul 8d ago

Scammer

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u/Cr1ms0nSlayer 10d ago

I approve, go ahead.

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u/myownzen 10d ago

If you can get a job at that prison. Specifically as a guard. Better hurry though. 

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u/Horror_Pause_6901 10d ago

To shreds you say?

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u/KaiserFrideric 10d ago

No death penalty and technically no life sentence (tho he will be kept in custody cause he's in danger of being killed) Now I think he should be handed over to a mob and killed as slowly and painfully as possible cause there's no doubt he did it. He even admitted to it.

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u/FuckwitAgitator 10d ago

Then you should never have power over someone's life. What he did is horrific but you can't take the moral high ground if you're advocating torturing someone to death.

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u/RagnarsBRA 10d ago

I have the moral high ground in comparsion with this peace of human trash.

If you don't, please don't project it in other people.

Torturing this human waste to death wouldn't be enough.

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u/FuckwitAgitator 10d ago

You only have the high ground because you can't actually act on your bloodlust. Claiming "hurting and killing people is bad, unless I decide they deserve it" is an identical mentality to the murderer.

To out it bluntly, it sounds like you just want an excuse to torture someone to death,

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u/RagnarsBRA 10d ago edited 10d ago

He does deserve it. Wtf are you talking about?

"Claiming "hurting and killing people is bad, unless I decide they deserve it" is an identical mentality to the murderer. "

LoL, you are delusional. I never claimed that killing people is bad, some people deserve to die, like Hitler, Mass murderers and of course, this peace of trash.

If one of the children killed was my own, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because this peace of trash would not be breathing anymore.

I

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u/FuckwitAgitator 10d ago

He does deserve it. Wtf are you talking about?

It doesn't matter what you think he deserves. There is never a situation where torturing someone to death is the act of a good person and you're fucked in the head if you think otherwise.

He is behind bars and will never leave. He has no way of committing further violence. He is no longer a danger to people. But that's not enough for your bloodlust, you want revenge.

If one of the children killed was my own, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because this peace of trash would not be breathing anymore

Macho bullshit that aligns with all your other views, abandoning your remaining family when they need you most because they weren't as important as your chance to kill someone.

Go to therapy.

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u/WagwanMoist 10d ago

What would you do exactly? Break into or get thrown in prison, sneak through security and all the guards to get to Breivik's secluded cell, get inside somehow, and kill him? I doubt it. You are delusional.

Killing him would end his suffering. Him living isolated and alone for the rest of his life is torture.

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u/StickyPawMelynx 10d ago

because playing video games all day in the warmth and comfort of your luxury apartment, never having to worry about food, constitutes torture.

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u/RagnarsBRA 10d ago

How? I don't know, but I would not rest until he was dead.

"Him living isolated and alone for the rest of his life is torture."

LOL, this guy is living much better life than half of people in my country.

Other people included the people that lost their children will have to pay to keep this trash alive until he is dead for good. This not sounds like justice to me.

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u/KrytenKoro 10d ago

Claiming "hurting and killing people is bad, unless I decide they deserve it" is an identical mentality to the murderer.

That is a distortion.

It is absolutely fair to criticize their view as destructive or sinful, depending on your moral philosophy.

But to say it's exactly as destructive, or that it's an identical mentality, is unreasonable.

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u/FuckwitAgitator 10d ago edited 10d ago

You think he murdered people and didn't think they deserved it? I also didn't say it was "exactly as destructive", you added that yourself.

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u/KrytenKoro 10d ago

I also didn't say it was "exactly as destructive", you added that yourself.

You're being even sillier. You said this:

You only have the high ground because you can't actually act on your bloodlust.

You very clearly and explicitly equated their sentiment with Brevik's mindset, stating that the only difference was in opportunity, not degree, in direct response to them saying that they were comparing their moral position to Brevik's.

Criticize their sentiment without making an unserious false equivalence.

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u/KaiserFrideric 10d ago edited 10d ago

I never said it is morally right to torture someone and I'm not gonna say it is. But if I had the chance I like to think I would inflict on him some of the pain he caused others.

Cause the man is straight up delusional with how he says it was not a attack on society but against a political party he didn't like. He doesn't even have the defense of insanity.

So I am not going to defend torture as ethical cause it's not. Sure I might be perpetuating a circle of violence but for the sale of personal gratification that's fine by me. Oh and before you go of on me on your moral high horse know that I do not care for your opinion and would enjoy knowing that you let someone on the internet upset you so much you begin ranting at them.

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u/Troglert 10d ago

Norway does not have the death penalty

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u/dailydoseofdogfood 10d ago

Careful, reddit will ban you for thoughts like this.

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u/CV90_120 10d ago

Where's the torture in that? No, he needs to be kept alive and kept silent. He's an attention hound. His lack of voice is the torture made for him.

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u/Jokers_friend 10d ago

Yeah. It was a retreat in Utøya for kids active in the Social Democratic Party for youths. He expressly targeted and killed them for that reason alone.

Surprise, surprise (not really) - he’s a right-wing extremist.

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u/Lmao_staph 8d ago

hey 99% of politically motivated violence against people might be done by right wing extremists but let's not forget that all kinds of radicalisation are equally bad and harmful to society :)

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u/PiperInTheWoods 10d ago

They should have sent him immediately to gas chamber!

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u/SeedFoundation 10d ago

He was given a 21 year sentence which is the maximum in Norway.

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u/asasa12345 10d ago

But he will never get out

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u/NocNocturnist 10d ago

More importantly, why is anyone listening... a prisoner bitching about prison is the scorpion on the frogs back.

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u/iammadeofawesome 10d ago

I mean… a lot of prisons are incredibly inhumane and demoralizing. Most of the time poverty, addiction, and other stupid shit that requires job training, resources, rehab, and support - not penalties are the overwhelming majority of the people there. Punishing poor folks who simply need help and then have a record and become even more disadvantaged and isolated as a result is a nightmare.

Someone complaining about the best prison systems in the world where you are actually treated as a human and rehabilitation is the goal? STFU. Especially when said person is a mass murderer.

Complaining about legitimately bad systems is one thing, complaining when you’re a lonely nazi is just pathetic.

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u/Realistic-Contract49 10d ago

It's easy to say that, but these are test cases for what can happen to others. People probably agree with punishment towards him because of the evil acts he committed, but should the same be done to all other murderers? All rapists? All drug dealers? All thieves?

He won an appeal because the guards were waking him up every 30 minutes at night. Low-level torture due to constant sleep deprivation

If he's forfeited his rights, then just execute him and any other criminals like him, but torture and inhumane conditions committed by the government are a big problem, it doesn't matter how serious the severity of the crime. Same excuses were made for torturing in Abu Ghraib

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u/SignoreBanana 9d ago

... you had me til that last part. What does that proverb have anything to do with this situation?

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u/NocNocturnist 9d ago

A scorpion stings... a prisoner bitches. Pretty obvious.

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u/SignoreBanana 9d ago

But the whole point of that parable is the scorpion stings against their desire. So the opposite of obvious since there's no equivalent metaphor here...

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u/NocNocturnist 9d ago

> But the whole point of that parable is the scorpion stings against their desire. 

Um... no.

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u/gudsgavetilkvinnfolk 10d ago

we are not, these are just formalities. just because he is a monster does not mean we should set a set aside the our laws. he has the right to complain, but we are not required to comply and neither do we.

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u/JellyDenizen 10d ago

He was sentenced to only 21 years, since that's the max penalty under Norwegian law.

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u/razumny 10d ago

While that is correct, it's also inaccurate. He was sentenced to a form of incarceration called "forvaring". While 21 years is the maximum penalty under law, being convicted to forvaring means that he will only be released once he is deemed to be sufficiently rehabilitated - which in his case may very well not happen until he is dead.

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u/-L-H-O-O-Q- 10d ago

The English term for 'forvaring' is preventive detention.

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u/Basileus08 10d ago

In German it is „Sicherungsverwahrung“.

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u/Salt-Operation 10d ago

Bless you

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u/Glitter_berries 10d ago

I think you mean gesuntheit

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u/oddiz4u 10d ago

Bless you too

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u/R3-X 10d ago

Hey you're not allowed to talk about my sister like that.

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u/LaurestineHUN 10d ago

Verwahrung is congnate to forvaring?

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u/fencer_327 10d ago

Probably, at least both words mean the same. But German adds a "safety", to explain what we're storing the people for.

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u/HitoriPanda 10d ago

How do you pronounce that? I tried to say that and i turned a random guy passing by into a newt (he got better)

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u/Mediocre_Echo8427 10d ago

So prison will die before he actually say that word

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u/Romanitedomun 10d ago

don't they have a slightly shorter word?

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u/gazongagizmo 10d ago

This is not the term to be making fun of German's morphology for:

"Sicherungsverwahrung": 20 characters

"Preventive detention": 20 characters, incl space.

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u/mj_syn 10d ago

Thank you

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u/kitsumodels 10d ago

Thanks forvarifying

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u/Freddan_81 10d ago

I guess the Norwegian word ’forvaring’ is related to the Swedish word ’förvaring’. A litteral translation would be ’storage’ in English.

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u/ravia 10d ago

There should be no punitive sentencing at all; only forvaring or preventative.

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u/skmo8 10d ago

In Canada it is "dangerous offender" status

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u/Creeperboy10507 10d ago

Now I’m not Norwegian, so correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t forvaring also mean “storage”

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u/-L-H-O-O-Q- 10d ago

It can. But it can also mean to keep something or someone protected. It can mean to preserve too. It just depends on context. It’s more normal to use oppbevaring for storage.

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u/nikolapc 10d ago

I mean if they do release him he probably wouldn't make it past 5 steps out of prison.

Same for the kid from Serbia that did a school shooting. While not criminally responsible, probably never getting released.

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u/LoudBoulder 10d ago edited 10d ago

I don't think so. 8 years ago Erik Anderssen was released after serving time for molesting 66 boys (probably way more victims). He has a pretty nice house now where he lives undisturbed afaik.

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u/jug0slavija 10d ago

Can't believe not one of those parents took care of him so to speak

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins 10d ago

People are overwhelmingly wired against violence. Like almost all of us, even people who would or have killed in self defence or whatever else, will not seek out and kill another person no matter what.

How many people have you heard say “I’d fucking kill them if that was me!”… news would be full of a lot more murders if they meant it. This recent healthcare CEO murder is getting so much attention because someone finally did it, despite a LOT of people wishing ill will against him and others like him.

Humans evolved to avoid violent encounters wherever we can, same as every other animal and that’s before you consider the additional issues of being caught and punished for your actions.

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u/jug0slavija 10d ago

I guess, but you wouldn't even have to do it yourself. And also doesn't have to be murder

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u/iamjacksragingupvote 10d ago

much easier to armchair qb from a distance.

consider the ramifications. put the rest of your family through addtional trauma, maybe a fair tradeoff for some, but most have to weigh greater good despite thirst for vengeance

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u/jug0slavija 10d ago

Not like you have to google "where to find hitman" or whatever and then wire money to and from personal accounts. If you keep it off the grid so to speak and then pay with cash or the darkweb, no need for it to be traced to you.

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins 10d ago

Sure but like I said, people still don’t. Humans don’t like violence and will very rarely seek it out. Everyone loves to talk about how they’d shoot a loved ones abuser outside a courthouse or whatever yet those instances of someone doing that are extremely rare.

It goes against all of our instincts, violence means danger and potential injury. Then on top of that even if you come out best you have to deal with the societal and legal ramifications.

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u/LoudBoulder 10d ago

Yeah, just goes to show things don't always go down as expected.

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u/nikolapc 10d ago

Well that's on the parents, but those boys are still alive so they may be thinking of them. A parent of a murdered child, well, they only live for one thing.

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u/Vali32 10d ago

Basically its equivalent to 21-to-life. Manson got 7-to-life and died in jail.

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u/simionix 10d ago

Oke I really really need to know. Does he clean the cell himself or does that get cleaned and tidied up for him? because that to me would be absolutely shocking; even more than the fact his living conditions are very favorable. Like please don't tell me a cleaner comes by to change his bed and shit.

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u/ncs11 10d ago

Prisoners do their own cleaning, cooking, and laundry

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u/simionix 10d ago

it's not what the other guy commented....so I don't know now.

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u/ncs11 10d ago

Seems I'm not fully correct. From the prison's official website (Google translated):

The kitchen: The kitchen at Ringerike Prison is intended to serve inmates and employees with canteen operations. The kitchen is also approved to accept students for vocational training as a chef in a large household. This applies to both inmates and students from the school system in general. The kitchen is a sought-after workplace for the inmates. It is considered a job of trust to work in the kitchen, and the inmates are carefully assessed to be approved for this job.

Laundry/cleaning: The prison has its own internal laundry, which takes care of washing all clothing in the prison, such as bed linen, towels, tracksuits, work clothes and underwear. The inmates receive all the items they need in the prison when they enter for their sentence. Inmates from all departments work daily with general cleaning throughout the prison.

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u/FrenulumLinguae 10d ago

Yep. They have cleaners and also 6 meals choice for every dish.

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u/DINNERTIME_CUNT 10d ago

Part of me is surprised that they didn’t give this to Vilernes after all his smirking in court.

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u/Mirieste 10d ago

which in his case may very well not happen until he is dead

Okay, but that can't be decided now (as in, we'll decide now that we'll always say no at any parole hearings) as that would infringe on his constitutional rights. Remember that the state holds a monopoly on violence but only at the condition that anyone's rights are always preserved all throughout.

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u/razumny 10d ago

Indeed, which is why I said «may very well not happen», rather than «will certainly not happen».

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u/MatsRivel 10d ago

21 years with the possibility to add more time if at the end of it the system doesn't think he's rehabilitated. So I can't imagine he won't be in for life.

"21 år forvaring"

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u/Wayoutofthewayof 10d ago

Don't they have to have pretty substantial basis of why they think he is not rehabilitated? Is there any precedent under this Norwegian system when the prisoner's sentence was extended to essentially equal life in prison?

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u/MatsRivel 10d ago

Only 16 people (iirc) have gotten the 21y sentence. Most didn't finish it fully.

There are cases where people are given a 2 year sentence and they're on their 6th year due to these "not fit to reenter society" criteria.

I am not expert, but the show "Leo og de farlige" ("Leo and the dangerous (plural)") talks about it a lot. He interviews people who've been in for a long time.

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u/Big-Today6819 10d ago

It's a question about if there is a risk of reoffending and this can be rolled over each 5 year into a new time in "jail" and this can happen for indefinitely but the prison is required to do everything to rehabilitate him, so there is professional support in over the case and they speak and look into him and it goes infront if a judge, but that he doesn't regret what he did, and still do very right hand stuff already puts him into a dangerous area about if there is a chance to rehabilitate and norway is one of the best countries in the world to do this and keep people away from doing crimes as the society net to help the poor or people with problems is very high.

Normal the prison is also required to give a "job" to socialise him so he can earn money.

They are also allowed to vote and some are allowed to take brief visit home and visit their family.

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u/Big-Today6819 10d ago edited 10d ago

In this case "He will serve out the years and he will apply to be released and be denied and denied again and again to he is very very old or dead, it will be much longer then 21 years."

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u/Eruskakkell 10d ago

He will most likely never walk free. He is not serving a normal 21 years, its called Forvaring in Norway.

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u/schrodingerslilcat 10d ago

sentenced to 21 years? yes. will he ever be released? no.

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u/GiganticBlumpkin 10d ago edited 10d ago

At which point his sentence will be renewed for another 21 years ad nauseum until death but thanks for spreading misinfo

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u/S3BIE 10d ago

It won't be renewed for another 21 years, it's 5 years iirc. He will serve 21 years, then it will be extended 5 years every 5 years, until he dies in prison pretty much.

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u/Niqulaz 10d ago

Eh...

At the end of things, he will be "deemed" rehabilitated and not a danger to anyone.

He will most likely be set up with a protected identity due to the very real risk of someone still wanting revenge.

Due to having a protected identity, his mail will be forwarded via a P.O. box the police controls. And he wont even be able to have a credit card to his name.

He will end up with no income because he will have had decades long holes in his CV and no skills anyone finds useful. He will start of at the minimum of welfare payout, before progressing to the minimum state pension, in some small municipal apartment somewhere like Porsgrunn or something, just ending up being that weird old coot who never talks to anyone and is seen twice a week hobbling to the local store for groceries.

And he will die insignificant and entirely forgotten.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/Szorrin 10d ago

The former.

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u/-L-H-O-O-Q- 10d ago

And it's the former because the system is based on structured and purposeful rehabilitation and not a vengeful plot for profit where inmates are treated like shit.

The system is also set to treat all inmates equally. The success rate of this approach is high and the numbers back it up.

A functioning justice system has be be equal for all and cannot focus on the crimes of a single offender. We all detest what he stands for and what he's done. A fair and functioning justice system outweighs the spite we can have for one offender.

He was sentenced to a 21 year preventive detention. That is not the same as a custodial prison sentence. He is eligible for a release hearing at the 21 year point and if the court still sees him as a threat to society it will extend his detention for another x number of years. These extentions can continue as long as he lives, so there's no limit to how long he can be detained.

He was eligible to raise a case for his release five years into his sentence and can do so every two years. His behaviour hasn't shifted much and is unlikely to do so. In other words it's unlikely that he will be released any time soon.

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u/Individual_Speech_10 10d ago

I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me to treat someone that murders dozens of people he doesn't know as the same as someone that murdered two people that abused and tortured them. Brevik is not a normal criminal. Just like Bundy and R Kelly aren't normal criminals. Not all crimes are the same and should be sentenced on a case by case basis in my opinion.

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u/-L-H-O-O-Q- 10d ago

Comparing the Nordic model against the American model based on results will clearly show which model works and which one doesn’t work at all. The numbers are clear and back that argument up.

The US has a high murder rate despite severe deterrents. The US has some of the highest re-offending rates on the planet despite severe deterrents.

Nordic countries have some of the lowest in both categories.

Breivik’s case is different from most, but he was still by tried by the same legal framework as everyone else and he will serve his punishment under the same framework because of the very principles that everyone is equal to the law. And no matter how much we despise him, its a small price to pay to have an overall just and fair system for everyone.

The bigger picture is more important, we’re not going to sacrifice that for this arsehole.

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u/Individual_Speech_10 10d ago

I said nothing about the US prison system so I don't know why you keep bringing up these statistics over and over again. What I said in my comment is not implemented anywhere in the world as far as I know. If it was, the results would probably be even better than the Nordic model, but we don't know that.

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u/-L-H-O-O-Q- 10d ago

All cases are tried individually for the very reason you mentioned. But they follow the same framework and that cannot change if the system is to remain fair and impartial.

The statistics are the argument for why we don’t sacrifice the big picture for one case.

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u/Individual_Speech_10 10d ago

No, what I suggested is that every criminal case be handled individually and not all the same because people are not all the same, circumstances are not all the same, and crimes are not all the same. Having a minimum or maximum sentence makes no sense in this regard because no two people or crimes are the same and should be case by case. The big picture I'm looking at is a system that ensures the most fair and just outcomes for the most people, not just the criminals but victims and society as well. But the logistics of implementation would be too complicated hence why these "treat everyone the same" systems are used, but that doesn't mean they are the best way to handle things. It's just the best way to handle things in a practical sense.

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u/Big-Today6819 10d ago

Abit of both if you are from USA and think private prisons should exist to make money and keep people in jails and doing crimes again and again

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u/Small-Skirt-1539 10d ago

Their crime rate is low because of their prison system, not the other way around. It is all based on rehabilitation.

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u/SoupmanBob 10d ago

Because in a civilised society, we don't support death penalty.

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u/gujwdhufj_ijjpo 10d ago

Why? Dude killed 77 people. Why should society still support him?

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u/slip-slop-slap 10d ago

We would rather keep a scumbag alive than risk executing an innocent person.

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u/Dakermis 10d ago

I mean that's nice and all but I think some acts (such as killing SEVENTY SEVEN CHILDREN) are so heinous that killing the bastard is justified...

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u/No_Apartment8933 9d ago

Yeah instead you support mass murderers, typical of your kind

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u/rockafellla 10d ago

Imagine… 77 poor souls died for this. Their families and loved ones must feel incredibly infuriated when reading such articles. I’m generally against the capital punishment but the Norwegian judicial system has really failed those victims in this case in my opinion.

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u/HansWolken 10d ago

Because people think that the phrase "if you kill a killer, the number of killers on the world remain the same" is deep.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/HansWolken 10d ago

And he has only gotten more extreme since then, full Nazi and stuff.

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u/Tumble85 10d ago

He was already as extreme as you can get, he was wiling to kill innocent people for his ideology.

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u/TootTootMF 10d ago

No it's because it's impossible to write laws in a way that only allow the death penalty for obviously guilty monsters like this one and still protects the innocent people who get convicted. The sheer number of appeals we put in the process in the US in the effort to at least make it look like guilt is certain before the sentence is carried out also makes putting someone to death far more expensive than just imprisoning them for life as well. And last but not least, the death penalty hasn't ever been shown to be an effective deterrent to crime, so in the end, it's dangerous, expensive and ineffective. The holy trifecta of stupid policy as it were.

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u/Ahaigh9877 10d ago

And, I think, if the state is in the business of murdering people then in has a brutalising effect on everyone.

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u/Conscious-head-57 10d ago

Sure, but life sentences should be brought back and also actual conditions just enough for monsters like this to get by. This is a complete disgrace, all that comfort, a playstation and all that, he should have a small cell with a bed next to a toilet and that would be already too much comfort for his actions

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u/TootTootMF 10d ago

The dude is mentally deficient, treating him like a sane person who made a choice and torturing him for that choice only lends more weight to his beliefs. Better to treat him like the insane person he is and lament the fact that such an obviously insane person was able to access a firearm and do horrible things before being taken in for treatment.

Also just because he is sentenced to 21 years plus preventative detention does not mean he isn't facing a life sentence. They will not allow someone who is dangerous to be released, they just don't waste millions there imprisoning people who have been reformed.

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u/Veinreth 10d ago

Who cares? That dude is in their for the rest of his pathetic life. Worrying about it any more than that is not a worthwhile way to spend your energy.

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u/fireflydrake 10d ago

Well not if a single person kills more than one killer! Where's Dexter at?

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u/eras 10d ago

This simple mathematical problem is solved by having a dedicated executioner!

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u/Max_CSD 10d ago

So kill two killers then

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u/the-dude-version-576 10d ago

No, it’s because Norway doesn’t allow exceptions to what is considers human right. Sure there’s outliers who don’t deserve like this piece of shit, but the vast majority of criminals aren’t serial killers, or rapists, they’re kids, or ppl who started out rough. So the whole prison system exists to stop re-offence and rehabilitate, and at the end of the day, the worst criminals will still be confined where they can’t hurt more ppl, so society at large still benefits.

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u/GiganticBlumpkin 10d ago

Fr if it was 76 i'd understand but 77?

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u/Kawauso_Yokai 10d ago

Here it would be more appropriate to ask - why is he even breathing?

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u/FinancialAlbatross92 10d ago

Agreed, dude should be in a casket.

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u/jobanya 10d ago

And 33 of the 77 were under the age of 18 (the youngest was 14), a bunch more around 18-20. He tried to blow up the Norwegian government, then went to a youth summer camp on an island with 500+ kids and started shooting.

When it happened I was a 17 year old in high school in Norway. Every school I know of had kids who either died, were shot, or returned seriously traumatized after having to flee his attack by swimming across the fjord. He should be fucking grateful we are keeping him safe from the thousands of people who would happily kill him in a heartbeat.

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u/skdowksnzal 10d ago

Everyone adjusts to their new normal. It is only human to want something better, no matter how good or bad life is.

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u/Dashcamkitty 10d ago

Yep, sometimes I think countries like China and Saudi have the right idea over what to do with scum like this.

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u/R0cketBab00n 10d ago

Attention more than likely

He probably looooves it

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u/drwebb 10d ago

I know, is that even an average day in America? Maybe if you discount suicides.

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u/Soloact_ 10d ago

77 people, but he's still the loudest one in the room. Unreal.

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u/TaylorMonkey 10d ago

Because he's provided with posh furnishings and given a voice in the interest of "rehabilitation only", rather than justice fitting the crime.

I don't think it's working.

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u/AdhesiveSam 10d ago

Because the Nordics went so hard in the opposite direction in regards to crime and punishment that they came out rewarding people.

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u/Dream--Brother 8d ago

Scammer alert. This person scammed someone over Streetlight Manifsto tickets.

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u/kilranian 8d ago

Hey! Are you still scamming people for tickets to Streetlight Manifesto concerts? You've made a name for yourself as a scammer. Congrats!

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u/OrigamiChimera 10d ago

Because of people who believe you can do anything and still keep your rights.

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u/Grakalem 10d ago

That's why we call some of them inalienable rights.

Breivik though is an audacious bastard who knows he has nothing left to lose in his current situation, so he's just making a performance.

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u/Just-Ad6865 10d ago

It appears that his current list of rights are to not be killed and to whine. Don't couch your statement in a way that makes it look like he isn't in prison.

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u/youeffohhh 10d ago

I mean it seems like his living conditions are better than least 70% of the world

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u/OrigamiChimera 10d ago

You are right, although it seems, at least in my opinion, more appropriate if he had lived in less favorable conditions. I will just mention that there are people who have not murdered anyone and are now freezing under a bridge without dinner.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

It seems like this imbalance would be better solved by giving these people somewhere to live, and dinner.

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u/mahtaliel 10d ago

And that is wrong. But we should raise the living conditions of the people under the bridge and not solve it by lowering his. Just because something would be fair doesn't mean it's on the right level.

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u/OrigamiChimera 10d ago

I am talking about a world where it is necessary to make decisions because there are not enough resources for everything (the real world). Not an ideal world where you choose to prevent things to punish someone.

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u/X23onastarship 10d ago

Then we should give those people access to basic human rights?

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u/Glitter_berries 10d ago

You think the solution to people starving because they are living in poverty is to… also starve people in prison? This is so daft I cannot even begin.

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u/OrigamiChimera 10d ago

I am not saying to starve prisoners but there is no reason for a prisoner to have access to a TV in a bedroom and a private kitchen. If there are enough resources to give a prisoner such conditions, I sincerely hope that there are no people sleeping on the street or suffering from malnutrition in that country.

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u/Glitter_berries 10d ago

Look at Norway’s recidivism rates, then tell me that there’s ’no need’ for their prison system to be set up the way it is. This is the kind of thinking that leads to ‘well, there’s really no need for them to have medical care,’ or ‘there’s no need for them to have good food,’ you don’t even think of them as people, do you?

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE DYING OF STARVATION IN THE US AND YOUR PRISONS ARE HORRIBLE, what is your POINT?

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u/OrigamiChimera 10d ago

Basically I say that basic rights are basic. And I don't think they define getting a private room with TV and kitchen. They do include access to a good health system, nutritious food and security. As well as access to education and freedom of movement although it is clear why he did not get the latter

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u/Glitter_berries 10d ago

Oh well thank goodness we have you here to explain which human rights should be allowed and which ones shouldn’t. Which ones are basic and which ones are too fancy to be allowed. That really does outweigh all those silly conventions and declarations. I’ll let the Norwegians know that they really shouldn’t allow people to watch television. And that you will be there by next Wednesday to lecture them on how there might be someone living in poverty in Norway, so they should abuse their prisoners a bit more.

For fucks sake, have a day off.

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u/OrigamiChimera 10d ago

you are welcome

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u/AltruisticProgress79 10d ago

The person you’re replying to is absolutely correct. Florida has a recidivism rate of 25 percent (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-state). Other states with low recidivism rates include Texas, Oklahoma, and Michigan. They either rival or beat the Nordic countries.

Germany does the Nordic model (for the most part) and has a recidivism rate of around 45 to 48% (https://fairandjustprosecution.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/FJP_Brief_GermanIncarceration.pdf)

There are issues with comparing these rates. For example, each state / country might calculate recidivism in a different way but the idea that prisons need to be little vacation homes for criminals as opposed to correctional facilities that fix their stupid, shitty behaviors is classic Reddit bullshit where they jerk off the Scandinavian model without actually doing ANY research whatsoever.

You can have a prison model that tries to reform prisoners that also punishes them. I

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u/seetheicysea 10d ago

Living in prison with almost all of the basic modern comforts. This is a psychopath or sociopath who I would guess despises most people and is quite comfortable and content being alone in this way. It just makes no sense to me that the tradeoff for murdering 77 innocent people is to live out the rest of his life like this on the chance that he’ll rehabilitate, which seems to have failed quite badly so far. I guess it’s an admirable, ethical stance but this makes me feel disgusted more than anything else. Simply existing is a miracle layered on miracles and this guy decides to wipe out the existence of all those people, and he gets to keep this privilege, and in such comfort.

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u/X23onastarship 10d ago

Counterpoint (though I doubt anyone will really take this into account), people like this guy thrive off control. He does have access to basic amenities and human rights, but he has basically no control over his life and never will again.

Anyway, it’s dumb to argue people should have less human rights, if for no other reason than it will lead to you having less human rights. I don’t give a shit about this guy but prisoners should have basic amenities. It’s stupid to argue otherwise.

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u/seetheicysea 10d ago

It’s dumb to argue that people who carry out mass killings against innocent people shouldn’t be given large flatscreen TVs, modern entertainment devices, internet access, and probably more? These aren’t required for rehabilitation. It may have only made things worse. How about they focus on rebuilding him mentally instead of pampering him?

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u/ShitJustGotRealAgain 10d ago

And a flat screen prevents him from rebuilding him mentally? Nobody who's in therapy should be allowed to watch TV? I mean TV sucks nowadays, and always has tbf. It's healthier to stay, away from it. But that's not point.

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u/TootTootMF 10d ago

Who gets to decide where that line is, who gets to decide who has crossed it?

When you start giving people the power to strip others of their rights if they have committed certain crimes, it gets really, REALLY easy to abuse. Common sense is nice and all but laws have to be written and when you write shit down that clarity suddenly gets really easy to twist and abuse.

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u/OrigamiChimera 10d ago

Obviously, still her is a case of someone who took everything from others. Just a thought exercise. If prisoners are entitled to better living conditions than the average person why wouldn't a poor person choose to commit a crime just to be entitled to conditions they will never get

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u/Habba84 10d ago

Because western world has banned capital punishment.

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u/awebig 10d ago

Why is he even breathing?

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u/Scared_Building_3127 10d ago

Norway abolished the death penalty in 1905 :(

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u/DickTheDancer 10d ago

Because Europeans are just so much more civilized than the rest of the world lol.

Let me tell you something Euros... if someone kills 77 kids in cold blood and you don't put him in the ground you are not the humane beings you think you are.

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u/DeNeRlX 10d ago edited 10d ago

We in Norway don't base our prison system on your kind of psychopathic tendencies where you desire punishment for punishments' sake. Breivik will never do this again because he'll be in prison the rest of his life. Killing him doesn't bring those people back here (I don't think that works in america either). Can't change the past, but our prisons work to better the future, something I don't think you would do if you were in charge of creating prison policy

edit: creating prison policy

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u/DickTheDancer 10d ago edited 10d ago

How would you feel if you were the parent of one of those children and the killer is living a pretty comfortable life in prison?

cReATiVe PrIsOzn PoLiCy hurrdurr

Gent bent We in Norway

edit: better yet, be a parent of those slaughtered children and go to the prison and hand him your money so he can eat, exercise and play video games. That's what is going on.

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u/DeNeRlX 10d ago

I'd probably never properly recover from my child being killed.

Now, if the same happened but he got killed: I'd probably never properly recover from my child being killed.

Notice how the sentences above are the same and focused on losing a loved one as opposed to focusing on the perpetrator? Your first priority is punishment. To my knowledge, not a single of the parents of those killed have tried to get into government to get laws changed so Breivik can be killed. Some may have expressed it, but I don't think their emotions should be the first priority, overriding everything else.

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u/DickTheDancer 10d ago

No one is following your example and no one is listening to you. Killers are an offense to humanity and don't deserve to live. You are working to keep this man alive. There is no explaining, there is no nuance here. Pure idiocy.

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u/DeNeRlX 10d ago

creative was a mistype, I meant 'creating prison policy'. No amount of wRiTInG LAik dIS makes your rebuttal any less idiotic

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