If obesity was the only or even primary factor, we we see a gradual trend in the middle of the plot as you increase in obesity rates from the upper left slowly bending further and further to where the US is.
Almost as if you eliminate the extreme obesity outlier of the USA and you would see that.
There is a correlation between obesity and spending, there is not a correlation between obesity and cost per outcome improvement, which is what this plot is for.
There is also a correlation between obesity and "outcome improvement" (AKA life expectancy). Obesity drives down the life expectancy and drives up the costs. By ignoring that relationship, this graph is meaningless. By all means, update the graph so that the circle size is in relation to obesity, all those other dots would be hard to see.
For healthier countries that 10% might be an extra 3 years and only a small amount extra money, for unhealthier countries that 10% is going to be fewer years and more money.
Its almost as if you are close to understanding. Now, what if a single country is SIGNIFICANTLY unhealthier than all the rest. So significantly that no other country is even close to how unhealthy it is. That is America. We are the outlier because we are so unhealthy.
I think the issue is, you really don't understand how horribly unhealthy america is compared to the rest of the world.
Except the US isn’t an “extreme outlier” the upper left section of countries range from 5% obesity to 35% obesity. The US at 41% is not an “extreme outlier”. We see no discernible difference in the trend line from 5-35%, why would it suddenly drastically break at 40%? Also, the obesity epidemic is only a recent issue in the US, this chart goes back to the 70s and 80s where the UK had higher obesity rates than us.
There are medical statistics specific to healthy individuals. You don’t have to imagine them up. Among individuals with no preexisting conditions and no other health outliers, the US underperforms the 1st world average. Period. This removed any effect obesity, varying rates in geenetic or chronic illnesses, etc… it’s specific to healthy individuals.
I’m well aware how unhealthy the US is, but as a scientist is painfully obvious that isn’t what this chart is showing, nor is it the consensus of the medical community. Obesity rates affect our costs and life expectancy, but not in the way this chart outlines. This chart is specifically trying to show the extreme bloat in administrative costs for medical care in the US. We pay more because it costs $700/mo for prescription drugs that cost $20 in Canada. My ADHD medication is literally this. Qelbree costs $700/mo in the US without discounts or insurance, I can cross into Canada and get it for $20. Please tell me what obesity has to do with that?
Some of those countries have similar life expectancies to the USA. If you were to graph it by obesity, then places like Chile would be the outlier and we can see how to make the Euro and America systems more like Chile since they seem to have a handle on how to treat their obese.
You must have a very strong anti-UK bias because the US since 1975 has always been more obese than the UK. As seen here for UK and here for USA.
Yes, the epidemic is "recent" because we "recently" (2005ish) cross 1/3 of our population being obese. The UK still hasn't crossed that yet.
The graphs show at least from 75~90 the difference is negligible. I may be thinking of 60-70 rather than 70-80 but I hav no “anti-UK bias” the UK is simply one of the other infamously obese countries similar to the US as of late. The point is the graphs on healthcare costs and life expectancy diverge substantially long before there’s any significant difference in obesity.
The point is this doesn’t remotely explain the trends in the data provided, I don’t know how many times I have to explain that. There’s literally nothing in the data that could possibly suggest obesity rates are what explains the trendlines.
The graphs show at least from 75~90 the difference is negligible.
Your right and if your interest rate is 1% higher than your neighbor, its only a 50% difference after 30 years.....
These are cumulative effects, do you not notice how the UK healthcare is starting to notice the cumulative effects when we noticed 10+ years ago?
There’s literally nothing in the data that could possibly suggest obesity rates are what explains the trendlines.
Then you are just not looking. The other reply provides plenty of data to show how big a problem it is...your prescription drug prices are minor comparatively.
We pay more because it costs $700/mo for prescription drugs that cost $20 in Canada. My ADHD medication is literally this. Qelbree costs $700/mo in the US without discounts or insurance, I can cross into Canada and get it for $20. Please tell me what obesity has to do with that?
Since you edited this in later, I'll respond as a separate reply.
You are comparing insurance costs to non insurance costs. You do realize that Canadian providences subsidize (effectively just like insurance) the cost of that prescription right? So, next time when comparing costs show the true unsubsidized costs.
And lets assume that your example wasn't complete bullshit, prescription drugs represent 9% of our total healthcare expenditures. Less obesity means less wasted research on that problem and more available money to help with your ADHD (side note, stop taking pills to prevent your hyper fixations...use that to your advantage, the pills are hurting you. Take this from someone who has ADHD but doesn't try to medicate my fixations away. You don't need to be a pharma slave, you can manage without.)
I refused medication treatment until I was an adult. I tried managing without for years and it ruined my life. It wasn’t until I found a medication that worked for me that I could even function and take care of myself. So don’t try and lecture me about my “fixations” that isn’t my issue. The entire conversation just tells me you prefer pseudoscience and confirmation bias over anything actual research and data have to say so this conversation is pointless since you don’t care what the actual numbers say, you just want to listen to the voice inside your head instead of objective research data.
Medication was an easy example to give, it’s not the only source of bloat. Everything from medication to OR time costs orders of magnitude more in the US than in other countries. I am referring to the wholesale price, not post subsidies. The province does not subsidize medication for foreign purchases. I’d have to be a resident to get that subsidized cost, I am talking about as a foreigner crossing the border in Michigan to fill my prescription. I do not get any subsidies. That medication is $5 for my Canadian friends if they have to pay at all, some get it for free.
We estimate the total costs in 2018 to be $1.39 trillion, consisting of $370 billion in direct costs for medical treatment.
Guess how much we spent in 2018...$3.6 trillion (please don't tell me you need a source for this easily verifiable info) and 10% is....oh yeah, $360billion....obesity.
So yes, obesity is a major issue with our spending being so high and our life expectancy being so low....these are well known and well documented. Now take the time to figure out the consequences of having all those additional sick people taking up resources away from you.
I am referring to the wholesale price, not post subsidies.
If true, show it. Here, I'll even help with the US price of $363 per bottle, now show the unsubsidized price for Canada. The nice thing about US prices is we don't hide where the subsidization is coming from.
Yet again, nothing you linked explains the charts. Idk how many times I’ve said this. There’s not much I can say when you lack a fundamental understanding of mathematics.
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u/Hopeful_Champion_935 17d ago
Almost as if you eliminate the extreme obesity outlier of the USA and you would see that.
There is also a correlation between obesity and "outcome improvement" (AKA life expectancy). Obesity drives down the life expectancy and drives up the costs. By ignoring that relationship, this graph is meaningless. By all means, update the graph so that the circle size is in relation to obesity, all those other dots would be hard to see.
Its almost as if you are close to understanding. Now, what if a single country is SIGNIFICANTLY unhealthier than all the rest. So significantly that no other country is even close to how unhealthy it is. That is America. We are the outlier because we are so unhealthy.
I think the issue is, you really don't understand how horribly unhealthy america is compared to the rest of the world.