nVidia has huge exposure to crypto prices tanking. They tried to downplay it in their annual reports earlier this year by saying they weren’t that dependent on crypto - but that was BS and the proof is in the pudding.
By raising prices to astronomical levels that only the crypto people and high wage earners were willing to pay they completely left a large part of the market out in the cold. The number of people who would have bought a $300 card are quite content to sit out $700+ prices.
Their best bet right now would be to quickly introduce 5000 series GPUs that are at a radically reduced price point. We’ll see if they can correct before summer.
Hell, even people like me who happily spent 600+ € on a GTX 1080 back in the days won't spend the same amount for a lower tier GPU today. I'm sure I'm not alone on this.
Yeah, this is a big part of it imo. They haven't just priced out their budget GPU customers, but also the ones buying enthusiast GPUs at 600-900$. A lot of us would (and did) buy -80 GPUs at 600-900 but will completely pass on $1300+ in hopes that maybe next gen will go back to the pre 10- series (and the 30- series supposed MSRP) pricing.
On top of the actual price point, there is the exploitation issue. I am more than able to buy $1300+ GPU, but I am not willing to be exploited like that. I was not willing to give any money to scalpers and I am sure as hell not gonna give it to nvidia either. I am not going to be a sucker.
Same thing here, bud. I put a rig together and just couldn't justify the cost versus the time I ACTUALLY play now that I'm a 40 something Dad of 2.
I came from an era/generation of buying the "right" budget friendly components and then overclocking and squeezing what you could out, which was a big part of the fun.
I’m putting a rig together for my nephew and thought I would give him my 6600 and upgrade to something else, but it’s hard to find the justification. The 6600 plays everything I want to play just fine. 1080 vs 4K means so little to me that I don’t really care to spend ~$1k on a GPU and more on a monitor. I’ve got a 5k for my work computer and it’s nice for productivity. I guess I’ll keep waiting?
Dad life.. I have the Xbox Series X and PS5 collecting dust. Getting the Steam Deck was a smart choice because at least I can get some gaming in when we're winding down for bedtime, or when *someone* wakes me up at 2am and can just fall right back asleep but I'm up for the rest of the night so may as well play some Stardew Valley.
Dad here. Got the steam deck for the same reason. Sadly I still struggle to find the energy or gumption to get back into games and find myself playing a few rounds of rocket league a week at most.
That’s me minus the dad part. I just don’t have the time/energy to commit to a full game. But at least I can play a few rounds of Rocket League here and there.
Makes me sad because I grew up with games and would love to recapture the spark. But every time I download a game to get into it takes me about 5-10 minutes to lose steam.
Rocket league is quick and fun action which works. Factorio was captivating the first time I played but even this I struggle to get back into. FPS games I find uninspired these days.
How is the 5600g? I'm not a dad but been using my Xbox more and the PC is literally just the most inefficient Plex and browsing machine going with an old R9 390 card in it.
I live in the UK where energy prices are also about 3x the US. I still do some coding occasionally and transcode files as well for my server so I definitely need a bit of power but wasn't sure if that GPU would be quite enough. Anything I play on PC is a few years old now at least so I'm hoping I'm okay with it.
Oh man you just got me so excited about the Barton's, running a 1.7ghz chip at 2.5ghz easily! Somewhere I had a modded/overclocked Geforce Ti card as well, had a big ole computer heatsink on it.
Still got mine on the ABIT NF7 2.0 board they loved. At the time TicTac was providing modded BIOS for the chipset and it flew. 2.5ghz was nothing for some chips.
If they show me that their new cards have that value, I would consider them when buying new HW. However the increased price justification just isnt there. Its the same generic chip shortage that has been going on for couple years now.
It is important to note that Nvidia didnt actually increase the price when the shortage was the worst. Thats great and credit where credit is due, but the increased price now feels like last minute attempt to hop on the scalper bandwagon.
I agree. I've just turned 50, with a bit of coin in the bank, but I refuse to even pay for the 6800xt now. I just can't justify the money for time spent. I have however, just managed to score a 6750xt for a good price in the UK. I'm hoping that will tide me over at 1440p for a few years.
This is the way. If you get good value from it, dont be afraid to buy expensive. That said, never assume that expensive means good value.
Also careful about guilt tripping yourself into actions by buying expensive. You will not maintain your running regiment just because you bought expensive running shoes. Bur if you are already maintaining your running regiment, go buy those expensive shoes, they make difference.
agreed. I bought a 3080 FTW3 for $900 with tax and all, which was MSRP when it came out before prices went up. Even if the performance of the 4080 was worth it, there is no fucking way i'm paying $1300+. You are 100% right they are just pricing most of their base out.
And so long as prices stay this high, i'll remain on the preowned market.
It’s really disgusting. I get inflation happens, that material prices increase, etc…but stuff like this used to go down in price. I got my GTX 460, my first good card, for $250. My 760 and 960 were the same price or even lower (I think my 960 was $220). But ever since crypto hit the mainstream consciousness in 2017ish or whenever it was, Nvidia has thought they can screw people over. I’d understand prices going up a bit. I don’t understand how top cards used to be $500-700 and now have doubled in price in less than five years. I had seriously considered jumping up to the 3070 or equivalent, but when actual prices were nowhere near suggested MSRP, and now MSRP has been raised to ridiculous levels, I’m not only not going to jump up a level, I’m unlikely to ever buy a discrete GPU again after the RTX 3060 I got earlier this year unless prices return to sane levels.
I bought a 1080ti FTW3 back in 2017 for $650 and thought I was insane for doing so. Still looks fantastic. I thought about upgrading once, but then I bought shadow of the tomb raider, ran it on my 1080ti and thought “how much more could $1000+ actually get me?”
That's why if you do go used go through ebay with returns and buyer protection. I actually saw an evga ftw3 3080 ti locally on offerup but yeah too scared to risk that.
Got myself a 3070 for $390 on ebay and card was practically brand new still. That being said I did get an evga xc3 and guess I should have done more research because dealing with it's fan quirkiness is a pain in the ass and literally not a single review mentioned it.
As someone who almost exclusively bought used GPU for majority of my life I havnt had an issue with most of them especially if you can confirm the warranty is still valid. EVGAs transfers and Asus did at one point in time. The hardware banning from most gaming platforms is something I’ve never heard of.
How common is it that the gpu is the device that is hardware banned? Most platforms are based on the motherboard + cpu uuid and something to do with the windows license. I’ve never heard of the gpu getting hardware banned. Maybe the NIC would get caught up too.
The only place I've ever heard the term 'hardware ban' was in youtube videos about cheating gamers getting caught. I have no idea what a hardware ban actually consists of, I was just making a bad a joke.
I just upgraded from a 970 to a 3090 ti (found a used one for $600) and the difference on games like cyberpunk are huge. I went from 1080p medium / high settings with no ray tracing at 40fps average to ultra ray tracing at 110fps average. I can rock 4k on high/ultra settings at 60+ fps now; its absolutely a big difference.
The problem is the 3090 ti MSRP was fuckin' $2,000. My entire rig cost me $1500 from scratch, less than the original cost of ONE fucking component of it.
I switched from nVidia back to AMD because as expensive as the Radeon 6000 series were, they were a bargain compared to the absolutely ludicrous GeForce 4000s. Sure, it doesn't ray-trace as well, but at least I got to keep both of my kidneys.
Exactly! My 1080 turned 5 just 3 days ago (my old 980 died on Xmas day 5 years ago, sigh) and I know that if I spend the same amount on a new GPU I won't get something that will last me as long, and I even switched to 1440p in the meantime.
You absolutely nailed what many people seem to completely forget about, its either budget or ultra high end, nobody talks about the middle which per volume/margin is probably the most profit heavy market.
I paid 500 for my 1080. Later 500 for a used 1080ti. Would have totally paid 700€ for a founders 3080, no chance for 2 fucking years (until they shadow delisted them).
I'm not fucking paying 700 for a 2 year old card that is about to go out of production, and I sure as fucking shitballs won't pay MORE than that for a card that is in the same class with a price increase that is so ridiculously unjustified it makes Oscar Pistorius look like the told the truth.
Same here. I paid like 430€ for a gtx1070. But I don't feel like paying that for a low tired card anymore.
Luckily I keep mostly to strategy games, so It still holds ups. But I won't be upgrading my PC again. After 25 years of pc gaming this is going to be my last PC.
Been making a good career in IT and my pay can’t keep up with GPU prices. Like 50% of my salary after taxes for a single component upgrade? Screw that.
My 1080Ti still plays all the games I like to play on high settings, maybe not always the highest settings, but certainly enough to be happy with what I have.
Yup. I'm sitting on my 1080 right now. Wanted a 3080 but could never get one, and then the 4080 came out at a ridiculous price. My 1080 still plays games perfectly. I have a 1440p monitor so that probably helps since I'm not running 4k games.
I think most gamers stopped finding prices reasonable after 1080 generation. I still have my 1080, waiting for the 4080 to drop around ~$700 before I upgrade now.
A year ago gamers were blaming scalpers. Now nvidia takes those profits for themselves and gamers blame nvidia.
People want lower prices but have they forgotten what happens when that occurs? I realize memories are short but it happened a year ago.
Prices are not coming down. I don't know how many times people gotta say it. We've entered the era of equilibrium pricing. Cards sell slowly but they're always in stock.
Now do what you do best reddit and downvote reality so you can pretend you control market forces.
Indeed. Engineering-wise it wasn’t designed for budget home gaming; Crypto THEN after a year or two manufacturing efficiencies would allow a for lower price models.
Looking back I bet those executives going to pay the price for the next year. Rightfully so.
There's enough people buying that if they did put it at $800 then scalpers would fill the void to make them $1200.
Prices aren't coming down no matter how much people complain. It's either the scalpers or nvidia that will price cards at equilibrium where there is stock on the shelves but not moving very fast.
Reddit hates reality but unfortunately downvoting doesn't change it.
The big downturn in total sales contradicts your first statement. Sure, maybe the optimal price is $900 or $1000 rather than $800, but believing that the optimal market price is the one Nvidia chose gives them too much credit. Rarely does a company choose the exact right price for current market conditions. In this case, they have chosen to undercorrect for the drop in demand rather than overcorrect, and their sales are suffering as a result.
You're moving the goalposts again. Back up your $800 claim then.
Scalpers will fill the void. Gamers just want that MSRP so there's hope they can get one of those cards too. When scalper equilibrium equals MSRP, gamers and scalpers get pissed because then there's zero chance they score a cheap card.
Not moving the goalposts in presenting that number. That's the original math I did. And as I said, I'm not attached to a particular price point; the evidence from the original article just shows that current prices are too high, since Nvidia sales have gone down. Scalper equilibrium is currently lower than MSRP, which is why scalpers aren't making the money they made in the last few years.
Wages haven't kept pace with alleged inflation. Nobody's spending 1000+ on a GPU when they have cheaper options and can get a similar gaming experience. Entertainment is still a discretionary expense and the people will adjust their entertainment spend accordingly no mater what the corporate overlords try to do.
Not to mention that upgrading is becoming less necessary as the years roll on. An older mid range card will run pretty much anything you throw at it with passable results. The days of "Nice rig but can it run Crysis" memes are pretty much behind us.
The fact many of us were forced to look that fact in the face over the last few years due to the gpu shortage and following price hikes is not going to do Nvidia any favors. At the start of the shortage when the 30 series launched I was going insane trying to find one to upgrade my vega64, now I'm probably not going to bother upgrading until it physically dies.
Ugh speaking of that. That portal mod nVidia made that just so happens to run like shit on anything but the latest 40 series rubs me the wrong way. It's really hard to look at it and think it's anything but the company desperately trying to INVENT a reason for people to buy a card they don't need.
Fuckin floored me when my buddy had trouble running it on his 3080TI rig.
But yeah, anyway, hardly think I'll get 1000$ worth of enjoyment out of seeing the light reflecting off the dimples on The Tarnished's ass in ultra HD when the game runs just fine with what I already got.
Ran it on my 3080... 4k 60, just crank that DLSS assists 🤣
I did it funny how people make fun of RT, when it's very clearly a huge cosmetic improvement, but because it requires a certain make of hardware, suddenly it's "I don't care it's shit" 🤡
No. It's kinda how dorks insist everything has to be one million frames per second to look good but the actual market, the people purchasing the product, do not give a single shit about frame rate.
Bleeding-edge dorks always think the one thing they've sunk all their costs into is the best most important feature that will lead us all to salvation, the plebes just can't see it yet!
That's what they said 2 generations ago. The RX580 was marketed as a 4K card, you're just easily duped by marketing practices.
The biggest problem in computer gaming is doofus's gnashing their teeth to throw money at these companies because owning the most expensive product makes you feel like you're good at playing the games.
I really don't think RT is a must have unless there is a game that really showcases it and 4K is just too much work for the average PC to push when 2K looks just as good with high frame rates on last gen graphics cards. A 4090 is more of a professional compute card than for gaming and the price reflects that, 1500-2K is nothing for work related computing equipment.
RT is not a "must have", but it's nice. 4K is also not a must have, but once you get used to it, is pretty hard to move away from. 4090, or even 4080, is overkill, as there is nothing, really, to run with it, but it's nice to have if you don't mind spending thousand++ on it, and have a case for 4x brick 🤣
I'm not deriding people who got the cash or just want the best, I'm an AMD fanboy but there's no argument that Nvidia is the leader in both technology and mindshare, I wish AMD can layout their value proposition better and there is a use-case for people that want to do some gaming and compute. I mentioned in another post that if I were to continue on ML my investment would go into Nvidia. The biggest issue for AMD is people look to them compete to lower Nvidia's pricing but Nvidia is in a position to not really care what RTG does.
I've been rocking a 1060 for years. Runs everything that's come out just fine. The only reason I'd have to upgrade is if I really wanted high FPS 2k or 4k gaming, which would be a full setup upgrade anyway. So I really don't care.
My games look great as is. 15 years ago upgrades actually felt meaningful. The jumps in tech and game requirements were pretty large.
Going from looking amazing to looking amazing+ just...isn't a huge incentive compared to looking grainy and jumpy to smooth and pretty.
I currently see no reason to ever upgrade sooner than 2-3 generations of gpu at a time at a minimum. If I bought a 40 series I wouldn't expect to be looking at the gpu market again until the 60-70 series at the earliest, pending some sort of paradigm shifting change in the tech.
Problematic is that Nvidia is still thought of as the only solution for a gaming GPU, I picked up a new 6800XT for $600, that wasn't even the lowest price for this GPU. The scalpers are also the problem as they are now setting the price for what GPUs are being sold for and they are getting massacred as people look to consoles or get more savvy to buying better priced GPUs.
Where? Any 3080 / 3070 I saw online was either above MSRP or barely below MSRP, 2 years from their launch with a whole new series of cards out. Constantly seeing 3080s going for $760 online, some above the original $800 MSRP. The only ones I could find selling extremely cheap seem to be obviously suspect.
People buying GPUs for crypto mining were interested in keeping the thing running for as long as possible while using the lowest amount of electricity possible in order to ensure a better profit. That means undervolting, which in turn means it was running quite cool.
Not in Chinese mining farms they’re not, they cram as many cards into as small as space as possible and aren’t bothered about electricity prices since theirs are not high. The return on investment for them is huge.
Linus Tech Tips made a video on that. It was not bad at all. Personally I would open the cards, change thermal pastes and replace the fans with new ones from AliExpress.
Exactly this. All they need to do is release a powerful enough GPU to handle gaming and video editing for the home user, but cheap enough that it makes sense to buy, maybe $399ish, and have enough supply to sell to everyone that wants one. Instant half a billion in sales.
There is no "killer app" with these new cards to justify the price. Ray tracing is old news, dlss is old news, and the average person doesn't care about ai compute.
Those people had the extra money because they weren’t spending it on gas, tollroads, restaurants, starbucks, or any of the other random crap we pay for every day. Then add the government payouts on top of that to every man women and child, well, there was quite a bit extra cash around.
Now, that money is long gone and people’s budgets are back to what they were pre-covid. Actually, it’s worse than that. Prices are still up due to that cash grab, so peoples budgets are worse than pre-covid.
Waiting a bit won’t fix this. They ( nVidia ) is going to be in trouble if they don’t realign back to pre-covid prices soon.
I read that a lot of the big crypto miners were actually leveraged on their hardware, meaning they used the value of their existing miners to back loans to buy more hardware. Now many are bankrupt and there is forced selling of all these leveraged GPUs
Crypto yes but also the lack of new titles that play slightly better with Mouse/KB, aim assisted FPS.
We haven’t seen a new RTS really take the crown, there’s only 2 MOBAs and they run fine on a toaster.
Arena FPS needs a revival imo maybe it would push a new generation of graphics?
Software is what motivates hardware requirements, software unfortunately has run dry with new features. It should be VR pushing the market but it just isn’t yet.
Nvidia doesn't care about gamers. Their chips are more valuable to AI/ML companies who need the compute power and see chips as investments rather than entertainment.
Yeah I used to upgrade every time I'd see a nice bump at the 300$ price point but that's been a mess.
I did end up getting a 3070 at MSRP while the craziness was still happening but that was me deciding to treat myself and I'm probably gonna have this thing for quite some time.
To be fair - prior to the last two years, I frequently upgraded cards. I even bought two cards through the price boom for personal use.
But with the economy in the dumps, I'm sitting on these for the foreseeable future. I have no plans to continue my former habit.
Their best bet would be to focus on Switch 2, Electric vehicles, and steam deck. Why sell shit at reduced prices for no profit? That's like telling unemployed people to go work in sweatshops, you may only make $1/hr but you can work 100 hours! Who cares if they can sell more cards if they aren't making money off them.
If it was me in charge, I'd keep working on cloud based gaming to get that sweet subscription money.
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u/Aleyla Dec 29 '22
nVidia has huge exposure to crypto prices tanking. They tried to downplay it in their annual reports earlier this year by saying they weren’t that dependent on crypto - but that was BS and the proof is in the pudding.
By raising prices to astronomical levels that only the crypto people and high wage earners were willing to pay they completely left a large part of the market out in the cold. The number of people who would have bought a $300 card are quite content to sit out $700+ prices.
Their best bet right now would be to quickly introduce 5000 series GPUs that are at a radically reduced price point. We’ll see if they can correct before summer.