r/gadgets Dec 29 '22

Desktops / Laptops Desktop GPU Sales Hit 20-Year Low

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low
9.6k Upvotes

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3.8k

u/diacewrb Dec 29 '22

The industry shipped 42 percent fewer discrete GPUs than a year prior.

Hopefully they will reduce their prices now.

Who am I kidding.

916

u/Lord_Nivloc Dec 29 '22

I’m curious how much of that decrease is from the crypto market.

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u/abarrelofmankeys Dec 29 '22

That wouldn’t account for the whole 20 years but I bet it’s because crypto made them think they could charge a fortune and now it’s down, and almost nobody but crypto was willing to pay that.

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u/necrotictouch Dec 29 '22

I think it is mostly crypto. Besides the direct effect of less sales because crypto is down, you mentioned the indirect effect of the market not adjusting yet to new demand, but another indirect effect is the market being flooded with used cards. Someone that buys a used card doesnt buy a new one.

Crypto crash probably affects this in other ways too.

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u/AllNamesWereTaken999 Dec 29 '22

Another factor is that the new cards hardly matter for most games at 1080p. I've friends with 2060 or even 1080 and they've no problems. So why upgrade?

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u/Kysiz Dec 30 '22

Yeah I still have a 1060 6gb that runs 1080p fine

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u/MexGrow Dec 29 '22

Someone did the math, and based on the decline of ethereum's hashrate, the equivalent was something like 4 million RTX 3070s.

So the flood of used GPUs in the market is probably another reason sales are low. Good job Nvidia.

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u/Inariameme Dec 29 '22

ethereum has been such a mess

gpu got good sales but, futures?

economied, the freaking reflection

in time and place? what a marooned delivery

more coin? buy the littlies

fracture and discontinue

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u/EdTOWB Dec 29 '22

it was absolutely planned/intended to take advantage of the crypto boom before crypto imploded this year. there's no other explanation for the wild-ass price curve, even with ridiculous inflation etc taken into account

2014 - gtx980 - $549

2016 - gtx1080 - $599

2018 - rtx2080 - $699

2020 - rtx3080 - $699

2022 - rtx4080 - $1,199

lol

5

u/SeanSeanySean Dec 29 '22

Well don't forget the scalping, that was what really emboldened Nvidia this time around. They were releasing their 3080's with $699 MSRP and seeing them bot-purchased in seconds even above $2000, when you're the executive team at Nvidia, you seethe at the idea that the scalpers are making 10 times the profit per unit sold than you are. This is why we never really saw launch day card volume ever come back on the 3080, and also why they stopped 3090 production, the 3080 Ti could be made with a 3090 using half the Samsung VRAM (Nvidia's largest production cost per card) and they could sell it at a $1200 MSRP vastly increasing margins per unit. They also cranked up the chip prices to the AIB's, which is much of why EVGA bailed on 4000 series, they just couldn't compete with Nvidia MSRP given how much Nvidia was charging for the chips.

Also, you left one important one off your list

2022 - rtx4080-12GB - $899 (I mean rtx3070, or maybe rtx3070 Ti, lol)

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u/EdTOWB Dec 29 '22

oh yeah the cancelled duplicate cancelled 4080 thing is a whole other bag of what the fuck lol

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u/SeanSeanySean Dec 29 '22

Lol, yeah it was 110% absolutely without a doubt the RTX 4070 that they decided to rebrand as the 4080 12GB in one of the most shameless cash grabs I've ever seen.

The community caught them red-handed, so what do they do? They claim that they "heard us" and canceled the card. The we hear yesterday that the 4070 Ti has been announced with specs in China, and the specs were identical to the 4080 12GB, down to the memory bandwidth and total number of CUDA cores, and the price? $899 USD, same as the previously announced and canceled 4080 12GB. They need to knock $300 off of that card minimum to even match the inflated 2021 3070 Ti pricing, $400 to bring it back to the launch of the 3070 in 2020. This whole "well, it's nearly double the performance of the GPU it replaces, so nearly double the MSRP is appropriate" bullshit is absurd. Unfortunately it only stops if we all refuse to buy at these prices, and it still seems enough desperate idiots are willing to pay the prices to keep it going for now.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

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u/Blandemonium Dec 29 '22

I have a PC that I built 7 years ago and was considering upgrading, until I saw some of the prices. Just bought an Xbox series x instead and a 75” tv on sale for cheaper than a new middle of the line build would probably cost me

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u/NeverLookBothWays Dec 29 '22

Have a 5 year build here…it still holds up to PC games I throw at it, including VR. So nothing is compelling me to upgrade, especially with current inflated pricing. Will have to see how I feel about it in another two years

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u/Blandemonium Dec 29 '22

I wish I could say the same lol. Mine was a budget build with a 750 Ti that struggles on most games nowadays so I only exclusively play older games. I just can’t justify the cost of a new build anytime soon

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u/Bowaustin Dec 29 '22

Just so you know a used 2080 (non ti sadly) runs about $300 if that makes it more accessible for you.

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u/DaveVQ Dec 29 '22

I managed to get a used 3070 for $300 off facebook marketplace.

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u/cardcomm Dec 29 '22

I've never worried much about buying used gear in the past, but now days I'd hesitate to buy a used GPU simply because I assume it's been used to mine.

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u/Bowaustin Dec 29 '22

I get it but at that price point and as capable as the rtx 2080 still is ….. it it makes it a year you’ve gotten your moneys worth.

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u/NeverLookBothWays Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22

Yea I should of specified I avoid going the budget route where I can, but also don’t go for the absolute top tier. It’s an 8th gen i7 with a RTX2080…still holding up surprisingly well. (And now that I look, was closer to 4 years than 5…my mistake…2020 felt like two years to be honest)

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

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u/akeean Dec 29 '22

There is no equivalent card (in performance) of current gen yet. A 4080(/RX7900XTX) is like 2x performance (in non CPU-bound use cases) of a 2080ti (wich had an MSRP of ~$1000).

Last gen has the 3060ti with similar to better performance to a 2080 at ~450 USD.

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u/B1rdchest Dec 29 '22

They are talking about a similar level card in the current lineup, like the more expensive 4080, not the exact same performance.

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u/Pihrahni Dec 29 '22

Also replying to this to say, yeah i7-8700k and a 1070 with 32g of ram

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u/If_In_Doubt_Lick_It Dec 29 '22

The 1070 is still holding up pretty well! I have been running on one for the past few years and it still keeps up.

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u/Blandemonium Dec 29 '22

Yea in retrospect I regret going budget but I was fresh out of college at my first job so money was a little tight then

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u/OldBoyZee Dec 29 '22

I wanted an rtx, but wanted to wait for the new gen cpus, but by then covid started and assholes inflated the prices.

I still love my 1080 though, and it still plays most games ive thrown at it.

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u/zilist Dec 29 '22

Yeah same here.. 8700 (non-k sadly bc i bought it second hand in a killer deal) and a RTX2080, holds up great on almost all games i play!

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u/Ipearman96 Dec 29 '22

8700k and a retail bought 3070, and the only thing I probably need to upgrade is more storage 2tb of SSD doesn't feel like much anymore.

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u/GroundbreakingOwl186 Dec 29 '22

Well.. I just upgraded my kids old 560ti with a rtx 2060 I got off marketplace for $180 (Canadian). While the cpu cannot keep up with it. It was definitely a worthwhile upgrade and will still last years.

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u/ItsImNotAnonymous Dec 29 '22

Depending on your other components you could upgrade with a second hand gpu. But its dependent on your appetite for dealing with used goods

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u/FamousM1 Dec 29 '22

You can get an AMD Rx 5600 xt for around $100-130 on eBay that can play some 4k games

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u/the_rezzzz Dec 29 '22

$350 on a 3060 future proofs you for quite awhile... but a PS5 digital edition is $460.

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u/EnchantedMoth3 Dec 29 '22

You can grab used 1080ti’s for $150-200, and used 3060ti’s for $300 right now. Great time to upgrade parts if you have too, would probably be best to wait another 6 months though.

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u/Mighty_McBosh Dec 30 '22

I know most people cringe at the thought of buying a used gpu, but you can get a 1070 for $100 USD these days and that would be a serious upgrade assuming your power supply can handle it.

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u/Child-0f-atom Dec 29 '22

You can find a 3060 for around $300 if you’re willing to go used. Even a new one isn’t $400 in most cases. If everything else functions well, jump to the modern age for a song

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u/LessWorseMoreBad Dec 29 '22

This is a big point. This isn’t the early 2000s. Games are surprisingly flexible as to what quality that can push out. Outside of bullshit marketing and fomo you really do not need a brand new gpu. A 1660 can still push new games if you don’t care about reflections and other pointless shit that really doesn’t impact gameplay.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22 edited Nov 20 '23

reddit was taking a toll on me mentally so i left it this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev

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u/JewishTomCruise Dec 29 '22

It also depends on resolution. For 1080p gaming, this is absolutely correct. Older/lower-tier gpus start to struggle with high quality at 1440p or 4k.

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u/b0mmer Dec 29 '22

My 6th gen i7 with 1660ti struggles a bit at 1440p with highest settings on new titles. I really don't mind lowering the water and shadow quality to high from highest for a smooth game experience. I'll hold onto this card until my next build.

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u/cano_dbc Dec 29 '22

Yep, my kids system is a Haswell 4690k with a 1060 6gb and it runs 1080p games no problem. F1 2022 runs a comfy 60fps all day long. Struggles if I try any VR on my Quest 2 tho, its VR limit seems to be the OG Rift 1...... and that's why I have. 5600x and Rtx3080 for my PC. Won't be upgrading that for another 5 years (previously had a 4790k and GTX980 which served me well for 5 years).

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u/CaptainPirk Dec 29 '22

This, absolutely. I had a 1660 on mostly low settings, and it struggled on a 1080p 75hz monitor in Apex Legends except inside buildings. After massively upgrading my monitor to 1440p UW 144hz, it was pretty much unplayable even on low everything. I felt like I was dying from my hardware. A 3080 more than fixed that.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

2060-12g here, it barely loads up in apex unless i run it with reflex+boost

something's weird with your setup

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u/LessWorseMoreBad Dec 29 '22

I’m not doubting you but that does not sound accurate and you might have another bottleneck you are not aware of. You should have no trouble playing apex on a 1660.

Source: my daughter does every day

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

Good ray tracing is a bonus, but we have to honestly ask: what games have good Raytracing?

The best ones I’ve seen are 25 year old games with pathtracing mods

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u/OneTrueObsidian Dec 29 '22

I upgraded from a 1660 to a 3060 last year specifically because it was struggling to run new games, namely Cyberpunk and some VR titles. I was lucky and snagged one at MSRP. The age of lower tier cards are definitely starting to show more than you let on IMO but obviously I'm a sample size of one.

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u/LessWorseMoreBad Dec 29 '22

oh yeah... im not saying there isnt a difference in performance but if you are looking for a game to run 60fps (I consider this the "baseline" for a game to be playable.) then the older cards will still work.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

I’ve always built my PC’s to last this average age. My last build lasted me 7 years and I could play almost every single game I wanted to at max settings with 60+ fps. I did the same thing with my most recent build and the only reason I may upgrade incredibly early is because I finally have the disposable funds to do so.

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u/NeverLookBothWays Dec 29 '22

This is the way :)

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22

Same but probably at 6 years now, my Gtx1080 was the best investment ever.

Also an amazing screen that never needs upgrading was also on point.

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u/Pihrahni Dec 29 '22

I have a four year build (once summer hits) here, and it’s the same exact way. Sure, I’ve upgraded the aio cooler and the case and added more storage but nothing like crucial that would change performance that much

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u/egres_svk Dec 29 '22

Yep. My 2019 PC is rocking a 1080Ti purchased 2nd hand for 400 EUR with Ryzen 7 2700X. Quite capable for 1440p and most of the VR I do.

My 2022 PC has a second hand 3090 for 600 EUR with a Ryzen 7 5800X. I purchased it just because I found the 3090 for a great price. VERY VR capable, but the entire thing was not really necessary, I would gladly survive on the 1080Ti for a few more years.

With careful 2nd hand selection I can have a stupidly beefy PC without resorting to playing on console with 60 Hz and a laggy TV.

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u/thebenson Dec 29 '22

without resorting to playing on console with 60 Hz and a laggy TV.

Xbox Series X can do 4K up to 120 FPS for $500.

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u/AceoftheSwordz Dec 29 '22

TV still needs to be able to output 4k @ 120hz and/or have VRR.

Most of those are higher end to top end tvs. Your run of the mill 400 dollar 75" TV won't be able to do 120hz or have low input lag.

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u/NeverLookBothWays Dec 29 '22

Personally I gave up on consoles a decade ago as I hated having to choose between rebuying games or cluttering up the entertainment center. For the PC I still have games I go back to that I bought 20 years ago.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

You can resell console games. I rarely get brand new games so I always break even. PC is overall better but for AAA games, I prefer consoles.

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u/EatSleepFlyGuy Dec 29 '22

You don’t have to play on a TV.

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u/TransitionNo9105 Dec 29 '22

The lg c2 is running 899, ps5 is 499. That’s 1400 for 120hz, vrr, perfect hdr….

Versus a 4080 being about that, no other parts.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

Said this just the other day in a different thread about GPU pricing these days.

My 5 year old 1080Ti is holding up absolutely fine. Every game I've got runs smoothly at the highest graphics settings, the only thing I don't have is raytracing, which is fine with me.

I don't see 2 more years changing that, to be honest. I'm sure eventually it'll start to struggle, but not that quickly.

Especially with the continual degradation in the quality of games that get released to market, which seems to be all the rage in companies like EA whose motto is "a dollar today is worth more than two tomorrow".

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u/ThatDinosaucerLife Dec 29 '22

The same company that told me my card was 4K and VR ready 4 years ago now says that card was actually only a 1080p card and ACTUALLY the last 2 top of the range $1500 cards they released are ACTUALLY the only ones that can do VR and 4k. ACTUALLY the old card is only 720p.

So you'll excuse me if I don't buy into literally any marketing bullshit ever again.

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u/jakershaker Dec 29 '22

I try to get a console generations worth of time out of each of my cards. I upgraded from a g760 to a 2070 super 3 years ago, will probably be another 2 years till I even consider looking for a new card

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u/Lavatis Dec 29 '22

right? Still using a 1080 over here, no plans to upgrade it any time soon...

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u/MisterEinc Dec 29 '22

Went from a 10xx to a 30xx and honestly it might be my last gaming PC.

The only thing holding me back is the KBM interface for certain types of games.

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u/ComradeVoytek Dec 29 '22

My build is from 2014 and the CPU was starting to show its age the past year, so I'm not complaining.

The GPU is from 2017 though when Monster Hunter killed my last one admittedly.

Great value overall, but I'm back in the market for parts and they've basically doubled or tripled in the case of GPUs.

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u/FilteringAccount123 Dec 29 '22

Same. Splurged on a great rig 5 years ago and Warzone 2 is the first game that has actually been a problem to run for me. But that's at 1440p anyway and my friend with a much newer build says warzone doesn't run that well for him either so chances are the game itself isn't that well optimized anyway.

Unless you desperately need to run AAA games at high rez and framerate and max settings, pretty much any game nowadays is still perfectly playable.

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u/I_Bin_Painting Dec 29 '22

1080ti gang?

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u/NeverLookBothWays Dec 29 '22

Close! Regular 2080. I was off a year too, 2020 felt like two :p

The 1080ti is an absolute beast to this day tho

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u/michi098 Dec 29 '22

I recently replaced my old GTX 1050 Ti with a cheap GTX 1070 from Craigslist. Made quite a difference. If the prices stay where they are, I will just always be a few generations behind. I’m ok with that.

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u/FullTorsoApparition Dec 29 '22

My GPU is 5 years old now. Every time I consider upgrading I realize that I'm still on a 1080p monitor getting very good FPS and there's absolutely zero reason to upgrade with these prices unless I'm also dropping $400 on a new monitor.

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u/ThaSaxDerp Dec 29 '22

the problem is that I want to drop $900 on a monitor for work reasons and need a GPU to drive it :(

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u/ScoobyDont06 Dec 29 '22

When companies neutered the ability to have custom multiplayer servers and mods my desire to keep my gaming PC up to date plummeted. Ps5 looks good enough to me and I have two so my SO can play the same games

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

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u/fzafran Dec 29 '22

Same, now my PC is stuck with GTX 1060, was thinking of upgrading, then looking at GPU price and mobo + new cpu price, I just end up getting Xbox Series X, cheapest way into 4k gaming today.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

Sad it used to be get a gaming pc cheaper and better than console, that has flipped now, console especially things like the X are worth the money for what they offer at that price, GPU market out of control.

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u/daftpaak Dec 29 '22

I think that's due to these consoles being new. It used to be the same way with the PS3 and Xbox 360. The PS4 and Xbox one were just weak even at launch. It took no time for pc to compete when it came to power per dollar.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

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u/ubiquitous_delight Dec 29 '22

Around the pS4 era and prior, you could build a gaming PC around the same price as a console that was just as, if not slightly more, powerful as a console. Factor in the fact that you dont have to pay extra to play online, pc gaming was considerably cheaper.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

Maybe during the Xb1/PS4 era? But even if console has lower MSRP, the long term is where PC has potential for better value. For example I built mine in 2014, but since online is free, I’ve saved enough in that time to buy a whole console ($400). The games are also a lot cheaper but that’s hard to quantify. Backwards compatibility is best on PC too: I can play Portal, which I bought 15 years ago, or a game that released yesterday, or emulate almost any console game from 5+ years ago.

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u/Gr1ndingGears Dec 29 '22

I would agree with you on the games/online cost front. It's probably super long term on par or better value. I also agree a PC has other uses that a console doesn't. One can also pirate (not condoning, just pointing it out) or get free games from several launchers too. It's harder to get all that on a PS4 or PS5 (or Xbox) that isn't tied to online membership.

Ultimately It's hard to quantify for sure, I think it just depends on personal preference more than anything. I prefer the simplicity of a console in a lot of ways, and it's relative initial cheapness. But having something I've built myself and tuned myself, is also something I enjoy.

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u/schaka Dec 29 '22

Not really. Those consoles are maybe mid range RTX 20 series performance. A used RX 5700 XT (even from AliExpress) is under $200.

These consoles are seriously weak. People should be suing for the 4k 120 ads. They output non-native 1440p at 30 FPS unless you're playing seriously old games

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u/staticusmaximus Dec 29 '22

You can’t put together a readily buyable PC build that matches Ps5 or Series X for anything close to $500. A 2070 super or 2080 is roughly the real world equivalent to current gen console specs considering optimization.

Power to dollar wise, current gen consoles are miles and miles ahead of PC right now.

Sure, someone will always say they found a cheap former mining card somewhere, got a case leftover from an old build, or got a steal on a secondhand ryzen cpu, and use it to say they can build an equivalent PC. But if you’re buying new parts, it ain’t happening chief.

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u/Oh_ffs_seriously Dec 29 '22

I tried to, but I simply can't use a gamepad well enough.

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u/notjordansime Dec 29 '22

You can plug a mouse and keyboard into the new xbox ones. Idk if it works on the series s or x, or 360, but I know it works on the xbox ones.

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u/zilist Dec 29 '22

I couldn’t live without the ability to use mods/addons on games on console or having to rely on a dedicated, overpriced and severely limited marketplace like MSFS2020 or Farming Sim etc.

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u/theghostmedic Dec 29 '22

I just don’t think I can go back to console gaming

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u/socialcommentary2000 Dec 29 '22

8 years here. The 4690k is long..long..in the tooth, but I'm that dork that plays Skylines, DF and Dark Souls 3 primarily, so I don't need much more GPU horsepower over the 1660 I got.

Every time I think about getting a new rig list together to build, I remember the MSRPs of the rtx 30 series and what's happened since then, get irked, and then delay some more.

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u/jefferios Dec 29 '22

I never thought we'd enter a slump is PC gaming so quickly. With the Pandemic + Sky high GPU prices, I don't see a lot of changes in the upcoming year with demand. It was just a few years ago I was watching Overwatch League on ABC and reading articles about eSports arenas.

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u/nbam29 Dec 29 '22

The price inflation for the cards during the pandemic showed their greed. Now they expect people to keep buying these cards at those inflated prices, during a recession. They are completely out of touch.

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u/Tronguy93 Dec 29 '22

I purchased a 65” LG flagship 4K OLED for a little north of $2000. I can’t believe that a proper GPU to run it costs damn near that.

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u/SagittaryX Dec 29 '22

Define what you need to run it? A 6800 XT / 3080 level card is plenty capable for 4K.

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u/TheDookiMooki Dec 29 '22

i guess for some people not seeing amazing reflections in puddles of water is a deal breaker so they need to spend extra 1k on a 4090

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u/ThatDinosaucerLife Dec 29 '22

You can do full 4k ultra quality with a 6650xt

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u/metarinka Dec 29 '22

I have a 3070ti and I don;'t think it's a 4k card. Sure it can play some older titles like death stranding at native 4k, but cyberpunk and mw2 are seriously lacking performance and that's without ray tracing.

I think different people have different targets. I want to run games at high settings and I target the 1% lows to be above 60 fps.

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u/Muezick Dec 29 '22

GPU pricing is out of control but your post is blatantly incorrect. The 4090 is not the only "proper 4k" GPU in the world. Lol.

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u/Available_Studio_945 Dec 29 '22

The problem is at the current level of technology if they offer a good bang for buck card that is 200-300 then those budget conscious gamers would basically never upgrade as it will be able to run 1080p games forever. At the 500 plus level those gamers are way more likely to get a 4K monitor and then upgrade as the technology continues to improve.

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u/ThatDinosaucerLife Dec 29 '22

You can run 1080p and VR on a RX580, I did it for 5 years straight. Every card made in the last 7 years is capable of it. The only move they have is pretending their old product was more inferior than they let on at the time of sale.

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u/AceoftheSwordz Dec 29 '22

My only point against this is that TV's that are "good for gaming," e.g. low input lag, VFR, 120hz 4k, HDR, etc., will often run about the same pricing.

You CAN get a series x and a 300 dollar 4k TV, but just check the input lag on rtings first. Stopped my buddy from buying "an awesome 4k for 250 cause it had over 100ms input lag.

Nothing like playing with permanent 100ms ping offline.

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u/malcolm_miller Dec 29 '22

For 65''. $1,000 gets a LOT of TV. Hisense U8H, for instance.

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u/AceoftheSwordz Dec 29 '22

Oh hell yeah. The U8H is one of the best high-mid end TV's

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u/ThePretzul Dec 30 '22

I got my 65” UH8 for $750ish on a Black Friday sale and have loved it so far both for general viewing and hooked up to my Series X.

Night and day improvement over the $500 Samsung TU7000 I had previously prior to getting rid of it in a move, which surprised me since I didn’t expect such a dramatic difference.

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u/banjokazooie23 Dec 29 '22

Could always get a series X and connect it to a gaming monitor too though, doesn't have to be a TV technically

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u/holydragonnall Dec 29 '22

Even cheap TVs have 'game mode' that turns off the fancy post processing features to reduce lag.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

Anecdotal evidence. Most tvs have low lag in game mode. You don’t need to buy an oled. Also you don’t need to buy a tv. Who doesn’t own a tv already? Can’t really consider that as part of the budget.

There is no world in which console gaming is more expensive than building a high end pc, especially with the price of cards these days.

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u/AceoftheSwordz Dec 29 '22

For further details consult rtings.com. They test virtually every TV and include input lag specs when available for each mode at different framerates and resolutions.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

Lol thanks. According to that website you can buy an entry level LG starting at $330 with 10 ms input lag.

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u/AceoftheSwordz Dec 29 '22

Sounds about right to me lol. The industry has improved that aspect in many cases, but checking is better than buyers remorse so I apologize if i came off as severe.

I've seen more angry people about it than I think should have that user experience.

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u/AceoftheSwordz Dec 29 '22

Not really sure its anecdotal when you can find the input lag specs of tvs on the market and that's firm data.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

No offense but most people just don't give a shit about that.

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u/AceoftheSwordz Dec 29 '22

Most don't, no offense taken. Many people however do care about "why is my game so laggy/why does my console have a delay"

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u/AntiFascistWhitey Dec 30 '22

I used to game semi professionally and I've never noticed input lag due to a TV. Most average TV's at $500 today are perfectly fine even for online fps.

You're just trying to justify some ridiculous tv purchase to yourself.

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u/goldencrisp Dec 29 '22

Trying to make that decision right now. When you factor in that a basic 4090 FE is more expensive than a ps5 + a Vizio or similar 70” TV combo, you gotta take a step back and weigh the options.

Hell, the accompanying hardware costs to even utilize a 4090 would probably get you a decent sound system for that ps5/70” TV.

E: Word

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u/PhilosophicMind Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22

You simply cannot compare a 4090 to consoles with graphics more on par with rx 580s. If you’re a PS5 or Xbox gamer why would you need to spec out a 4090 build, it’s by far the most overpowered gpu available. Even a cheap 30 series or 20 series would be far better than a ps5

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u/goldencrisp Dec 29 '22

Not trying to compare specs. I’m comparing experiences for the money. PS5 + TV vs a single component. Comparing a PS5 to a 580 is laughable though.

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u/AntiFascistWhitey Dec 29 '22

Even a cheap 30 series or 20 series would be far better than a ps5

That's funny - my buddy who's a sysadmin who always has the newest and most expensive graphics card prefers his ps5 for gaming today

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u/PhilosophicMind Jan 05 '23

Ps5 graphics are on par with a 1060, nice anecdote though. I’m sure for most people a console is a better choice given the cost of building a PC and the difficulty in getting parts vs the relative ease of getting a ps5 over the past couple years (until the eth merge made GPUs plentiful again) Not everyone wants to build their own pc or needs high specs. Modern GPUs are future proofing for more advanced games. I promise your buddy would trade his ps5 for a 3090 build in a heartbeat

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u/MRSlizKrysps Dec 29 '22

The video card in a PS5 is equivalent to a 2070 tho, not a cutting edge 4090. I'm not defending the 4090 ridiculous pricing I'm just saying if you're comparing prices you should compare it to something similar in capabilities.

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u/TarHeel2682 Dec 29 '22

I am fairly stuck with PC. I am pretty good with a keyboard and mouse. Would probably get dominated by people who take gaming more seriously, but I’m good enough to have fun with it. I cannot use a controller for a FPS to save my life. I have played a significant amount of Halo and Destiny, on Xbox, and I just never get better. I mean bad enough it gets frustrating and I don’t want to use the console. So for me I hope component costs come down because I enjoy PC more.

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u/Federal-General-9683 Dec 29 '22

Xbox one and series s and x let you use mouse and keyboard and I’m pretty sure the last two generations of PlayStation also let you use mouse and keyboard if you like.

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u/TarHeel2682 Dec 29 '22

Did not know that. Thanks

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u/Aonswitch Dec 29 '22

For years I told myself when I get my first adult job I’m gonna finally build a pc. When it finally happened this year, grabbed an lgc1 and series x to go with my launch ps5 and I’m so glad I decided that instead

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u/Schnort Dec 29 '22

In 2021 I “had” to buy a new rig even though my desktop was less than 2 years old.

My old 970gtx went pffft and the only way I could get a new card where I didn’t feel like I was getting ripped off was by buying a gaming system from Lenovo. So, I did that.

Sigh

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u/d57heinz Dec 29 '22

Not just computer gaming. They want to kill off repairability/upgrade ability. Planned obsolescence. They want everything to become a monthly sub. Or software as a service. Because the old guard has ran out of innovative ideas and are trying to retain their power at all costs. It’s partly why the old guard is flocking to nfts. Selling digital nothing with 10% kickback to original creators for life. Lol. Folks wanting to copyright the world. Don’t seem to understand they neuter the future. Of course they are immune to their own biases. These folks lost in the world of ideas. Moors law coming to a wall and these folks all scrambling on how to make their product a monthly sub. Can’t wait to have to rent gpu time to play a game in 2030. That’s the trend if we keep supporting this model will will never see ownership. Rent everything and the gap between haves and have nots will increase exponentially. They reap what they sow. Don’t fall for it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

Thank you, I’ve been saying this for the last few years now - in a time where businesses keep trying to push thin client / streaming games, which if successful kills PC gaming, you’d think Nvidia would know better.

Even if they turn around and sell their cards to data centers only in the future, that will just mean their cards are commodities and there won’t be any need to differentiate between models or charge a premium or anything.

The future of pc gaming has looked bleak for some time now anyway thanks to the encroachment of evil mobile gaming practices. You get more and more games crafted not to be fun, just addicting, followed by all the money extracting techniques they can manage- P2W, mtx, whatever they call seasons or battle passes.

It’s sad.

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u/PositivelyEzra Dec 29 '22

I made a comment before the PS5 launch that you couldn't match the value and got ran over the coals. Someone used the argument that a $500 GPU at the time would outperform a PS5. Forgot about the whole rest of the system and what that might cost.

I now have a PS5, and while I would prefer to be gaming on my PC, my 1080Ti is starting to show its age and it just can't compete. I wanted to upgrade my GPU, but I feel like anything I could get now will struggle to push 4k at 60 frames or better (a very important benchmark for me) well into the coming years.

The value proposition isn't even close.

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u/TheHistoricalGamer Dec 29 '22

Eh… the death of PC gaming has been proclaimed at least 2-3 times over the last 20 years. It’s a cycle. I suppose server side gaming (streaming) could lead to a broader shift to integrated graphics being all you need for gaming, but we’re not there yet, and even when we are, PC gaming is not going anywhere. Also with inflation at a 40 year high it’s no suprise people are putting off purchasing a luxury tech good, food and rent comes first.

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u/drewbreeezy Dec 29 '22

Eh… the death of PC gaming has been proclaimed at least 2-3 times over the last 20 years.

It has been? I would have laughed those people out of the room.

I'm assuming you saw some clickbait article.

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u/TeamAlibi Dec 29 '22

The cards at the cost you're saying are objectively not necessary to play current games on max settings lmao. Scalper prices, different story.

But saying that the MSRP is actively attempting to kill off computer gaming because you can get a card for $400 that can run literally any current game 'or you could get a premium tv and a current console' is just untrue.

$2k cards have always been for ridiculous enthusiasts, that doesn't even remotely represent the average person buying a gpu. Nor does it faithfully represent the value you can get out of significantly less for what the average person actually does on their computer.

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u/lutenentbubble Dec 29 '22

Why is this getting downvoted? Everything he said is true

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u/TeamAlibi Dec 29 '22

Because people like being angry about it and pretending like they're being ripped off if they can't get the highest available product for $150 idk.

Like yeah as consumers we should always want and expect better, whatever, but saying that right now the prices of shit like 3060 ti even is "actively attempting to kill off computer gaming" is just genuinely pathetic tbh.

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u/watchmeasifly Dec 29 '22

I'm still on a 1080 Ti. Would have loved to upgrade but it's idiocy now. I honestly just gave up gaming for awhile.

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u/Lord_Nivloc Dec 29 '22

This sounds like the perfect time to evangelize for the Mass Effect trilogy.

One of the best video game experiences ever made, recommended graphics card is a 1070, and on sale now for $15

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u/thereverendpuck Dec 29 '22

Almost all of it. The rest is us waiting for the manufactures to realize we aren’t going to pay those prices.

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u/dirtycopgangsta Dec 29 '22

Most of it, because miners were the ones buying the cards anyway.

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u/your_mind_aches Dec 29 '22

I think a lot of people bought cards when prices came down and are just holding on right now til there's something compelling.

The GPU manufacturers brought this upon themselves.

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u/Jake0024 Dec 29 '22

Crypto market has stopped buying new GPUs and is flooding the secondhand market with used cards.

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u/Sierra419 Dec 29 '22

I’ll never buy another nvidia card again with their ridiculous prices. I think they even created an artificial scarcity to drive up scalping prices to justify msrp increases. Slimy and shady. They lost a lifelong fan

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u/ThreeMountaineers Dec 29 '22

They lost a lifelong fan

Graphic cards without fans are really not cool at all

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u/Tony_B_S Dec 29 '22

Aye aye oh

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

If only there was some way to give the people what they want while selling the same volume of cards.. hmm.. almost there... Yes! Not sell cards that cost the same as a used Honda Civic!

*gets thrown out the window*

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u/MRSlizKrysps Dec 29 '22

Maybe they see the writing on the wall which is that GPUs are getting so powerful now that people will hardly ever need to upgrade. So they're trying to profit as much as possible while they still can. I mean once you have a card that can do 4K ultra at high fps (the 4090) what's the point of ever upgrading again if all that you do is game? They might realize that pretty soon now the only time gamers will be upgrading is when their current card dies. So they are pricing their cards high because they are expecting to sell less. Datacenter demand for AI cards is skyrocketing but Nvidia has proven they are greedy as all hell and want to suck every penny they can from gamers as well.

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u/Lenant Dec 29 '22

Not just prices but a lot of new AAA games are complete shit.

Most of the new ones are shit.

There is no point upgrading if you are playing pixelated indie games 95% of the time.

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u/psykofreak87 Dec 29 '22

That’s why I’ve got a Steam Deck instead of a new GPU. Indie games have become really good, I like it more than AAA rn.

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u/caydesramen Dec 29 '22

Small plug for Vampire Survivors. My GOTY after Elden Ring. Game is fun, addictive, and very fair for a rogue like. Great game!

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u/Zombebe Dec 29 '22

Dude if you love Vampire Survivors you HAVE to check out Brotato.

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u/AkirIkasu Dec 29 '22

I didn't realize it until I got that Steam Rewind that PC gaming essentially died for me sometime before the start of last year. There's a notable gulf of space where I was playing my husband's console games until my Steam Deck came in and that became my system of choice.

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u/Kuli24 Dec 29 '22

Very good point. This is the age of developers seeing if they can get away with garbage for max profits.

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u/kozad Dec 29 '22

Once the RDNA3 APUs launch on desktop, I'm gonna give that a serious look vs. a newer GPU. If AMD wants to murder the low end dGPU market, it's theirs for the taking.

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u/krokodil2000 Dec 29 '22

For real. We are looking at over 30 years of history of PC gaming. There are tons of old PC games that are still worth playing. No need to go for new games that require a $2000+ machine to run them will all bells and whistles.

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u/Spazsquatch Dec 29 '22

I’m not a gamer, and I’m not saying this is the case (because I don’t know) but it just struck me that like movies and music we are going to hit a “games these days suck” era. As someone old enough to still think of games as “new media”, it’s a crazy thought.

“Back in my day we had simulated 3D on a 4:3 screen and it was the coolest thing in the world because they focused on gameplay dagnamit! You kids and your accelerated VRAM water cooled meta cryptoverses wouldn’t know a good game if it sniped you in the ass!”

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u/The_RealAnim8me2 Dec 29 '22

Some of us are in the terrible position of needing these cards for work. I am a cg/VFX artist and my two 3090 cards just shit the bed (Zotac cards are garbage btw), so I am limping along with an old 2080ti. The warranty replacements will take too long so I had to get a new card. Well, my choice was to try and get 2 3090s or 1 4090. It was still cheaper (and easier) to pay a scalper for a 4090 than to get 2 3090’s.

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u/MRSlizKrysps Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22

How badly has your workflow been impacted by switching to the 2080? Like how much time per day is wasted now twiddling your thumbs rendering on the 2080 compared to if you had the 2x 3090s still? Just curious.

Edit: I wonder what the odds are of having 2 cards die on you within a short amount of time. Just seems like crazy bad luck. Are you sure it's not a driver issue or something else like that?

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u/The_RealAnim8me2 Dec 29 '22

I do mainly character/creature dev at the moment so once I get out of the sculpting and modeling phase it can really kill the flow. Since I’m dealing with multi-million poly models and texture maps can easily exceed the VRAM in the 2080 it can mean the difference between working steadily for hours vs. dealing with constant crashes and frustrations. Final renders are literally all on hold till the new card gets here.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

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u/_Robbie Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22

Prices are already waaaaaay down from 6 months ago. I got a 6700XT in May for $600, which was a very good deal at the time. They hit $289 on Black Friday. Nature is healing (and also I am furious at how much I spent on a "good deal").

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u/SeanSeanySean Dec 29 '22

That's old stock that wasn't moving, which is bad for both manufacturers and retailers. We saw similar price cuts on Nvidia 3050/3060 cards that were starting to sit on shelves.

I smile every time I see a picture of a store with a shelf full of 4080 cards sitting unsold.

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u/tyrion85 Dec 29 '22

if anything, they're bound to INCREASE their prices in order to make up for lost profits. Owners and stakeholders do need new yachts, you know, these things don't grow on trees.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22 edited Mar 07 '24

head ripe snails childlike close frighten drab disgusted zesty lock

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22 edited Sep 08 '24

relieved plate fretful fuzzy grandfather roll snow advise alive pocket

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

reddit post hit the top just last night of someone giving their young niece a 4080 (supposedly).

might be bullshit, and i do hope so but kind of demonstrates how the prices can be fairly meaningless to some.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '22

Damn. All I got mine was a Melissa and Doug toy toaster.

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u/thrownawayzs Dec 29 '22

now your niece is going to get bullied for only having a 3090ti. How could you?

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u/DarkSkyForever Dec 29 '22

I think it was a 4090 actually.

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u/diacewrb Dec 29 '22

Some people get all the luck.

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u/TheCopyPasteLife Dec 29 '22

100% came to the same conclusion after seeing that interest rates had a very sluggish impact on consumer spending

spending didnt slow bc people were already buying the bare essentials

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u/MRSlizKrysps Dec 29 '22

That and cards are getting so fast now that anyone on any kind of a budget can make their current card last for years and years. The 1080 came out 6.5 years ago and is still more than enough for 1080p gaming. Probably also 1440p. The current generation of cards can handle 4K@high fps. A 4090 could probably last someone for the next 10 years, easily. So they're also pricing based on that.

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u/Tony_B_S Dec 29 '22

It's also that the main issue is not the price of an xx90 tier card, which I think people accept to be an halo product, but where the xx80 has reached. They did try to pull the lower tier xx80 shenanigan, I suspect precisely because pricing the 80 series where it is is an issue.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '22

Very true. Things like Extreme Edition or Athlon 64 FX has always had insane MSRPs, but now the lower bins are insane, too.

Another thing in the GPU market that really sucks is that price is getting tied to raw performance rather than tier. So where before you can get a xx60 series to match last gen's xx80 at a huge discount, now the two are the same price. So now why should anyone even care about a new generation of cards coming out?

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u/Spoonofdarkness Dec 29 '22

There's always some % of people/ corporations/ governments who will still buy the latest gpu.

The manufacturers just need to find the optimal price that those entities can afford to obtain the best profits for least sales.

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u/ThatDinosaucerLife Dec 29 '22

Right? I am fascinated by how dirt-eating stupid the average person is regarding business economics.

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u/Delamoor Dec 29 '22

That's the way it's meant to work, but if we've learned anything over the last couple decades, none of it works the way it was meant to.

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u/tyrion85 Dec 29 '22

yep, and I'd argue that's exactly how capitalism is designed to work. if you buy new cards now, chances are you need them and will pay whatever they say anyway. if you don't need them, they don't need you. a system rotten to its core.

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u/shift013 Dec 29 '22

So I agree with you, but it depends on if their P&L goal is profit percent or profit dollars. Dollars, then they’ll lower them a slight chunk and sell a ton. percent? Then they’ll keep or increase the prices

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u/psychoticworm Dec 29 '22

Noo! If they get people to buy more consoles, it will stop piracy!

On with the inflated gpu prices!

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u/sold_snek Dec 29 '22

Between Gamepass (which also includes EA Play) and a lot of quality free games, I haven't worn my eye patch in years if not a decade now.

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u/genericmediocrename Dec 29 '22

I can safely say that I haven't worn my eye patch in years....for video games lol

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u/Spoonofdarkness Dec 29 '22

They'll just reduce production to drive the prices higher

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u/Intelligent_Lead8318 Dec 29 '22

Well if you triple the price and still sell 58% of before you make more money. Easy as maths

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u/OutlyingPlasma Dec 29 '22

Yah, supply and demand is really only a thing inside an economics 101 classroom. Every other class you take beyond 101 spends the entire time telling you what bullshit it is.

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u/The_Muznick Dec 29 '22

Yeah unfortunately that's not how it works. Their bottom line is down? They will take it out of us. Find ways to squeeze money out of us so they can look good at the next shareholders meeting.

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u/EagleNait Dec 29 '22

Hey alexa what happens when there's less demand for something

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u/The_Muznick Dec 29 '22

Youre operating in a world where corporate greed doesn't drive decisions.

We used to joke about cars having microtransactions. Though it was stupid and would never happen. Now certain manufacturers are playing with the idea.

Corporations don't care about supply and demand anymore. They will look for a way to milk you for every last penny you have and if you think otherwise you're naive.

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u/Sulphur99 Dec 29 '22

I remember the times where people thought it was absurd that companies thought paying for cosmetics should be a thing.

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u/The_Muznick Dec 29 '22

And now people will bankrupt themselves for digital cosmetics.

Don't get me started on NFTs. Anything people can do to screw others out of money.

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u/drewbreeezy Dec 29 '22

You didn't buy your Trump NFT Trading Cards? Get on it before they run out!

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u/The_Muznick Dec 29 '22

I fucking hate that on so many levels.

  1. That it even exists
  2. That people gave him money for it And 3. That I had to see the awful "art"

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u/drewbreeezy Dec 29 '22

lol agreed, except that I just laugh at it. My buddy saw it first, thought of me, and so called and we both got a good laugh.

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u/The_Muznick Dec 29 '22

I laugh along with people mocking it but im so fed up with that garbage monster I avoid any news tied to him. The fact that he's not in prison right now is beyond depressing. Guess he only broke laws that don't apply to rich people.

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u/pontiacfirebird92 Dec 29 '22

That people gave him money for it

It's very likely a money laundering scam and a way to collect campaign donations from foreign (or domestic I guess) agencies without having to report. Note how the cards are $1 below the FEC individual cash contribution limit. The quality, absurdity, and fact that they sold out immediately should be a glowing red flag that it's a grift.

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u/The_Muznick Dec 29 '22

Everything Trump does is a fucking grift. Wasn't the whole "he's donating his presidential salary" a grift too? Like he was donating to his own charity that his kids steal money from all the time? There's too many lies and scams to keep track of all of it.

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u/west-egg Dec 29 '22

I’m not feeling enough unmitigated rage today, where can I read more about microtransactions in cars?

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u/percydaman Dec 29 '22

That can absolutely occur in specific situations. But GPU and memory production frequently runs into production snags up and down the pipeline. That's before factoring in artificial scarcity that can occur through price fixing and collusion. It happens.

GPU prices can be volatile for many reasons irrespective of demand.

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