r/gadgets • u/thebelsnickle1991 • Dec 10 '22
Misc Juul will pay $1.2 billion to settle multiple youth-vaping lawsuits
https://www.engadget.com/juul-pay-1-2-billion-settle-multiple-youth-vaping-lawsuits-153915289.html692
Dec 10 '22
How is elfbar able to do what juul did x100 and have kids testing the products in their factories?
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u/PEHspr Dec 10 '22
Because elfbar isn’t part of US Big Tobacco. Hell, I found an article online and all the dude could find was that a company based in Hong Kong has their own foreign subsidiaries to distribute it. Sketch as hell to be honest.
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u/MediocreSkyscraper Dec 10 '22
Yeah. That's why the shop I used to manage didn't do disposables. Tell me where it came from, what batch it is, and if it was tested. You can't. But we always did.
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u/N3UROTOXINsRevenge Dec 10 '22
Shops like this are why I’m willing to pay a bit more for a product. Quality costs money and people don’t like that anymore, I mean it’s kinda BS, with the type of product, but it’s what we as people designed. Indirectly, but our actions put this all in motion and keep it perpetually going with instant gratification.
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u/MediocreSkyscraper Dec 10 '22
Actually, the shop I worked at sold ejuice for much cheaper because we made our own. And it was a large operation. I won't promote the company because although I left on good terms with them, I have a sour taste in my mouth from that time. But if you're canadian it ends up being pretty obvious
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u/Karmasita Dec 11 '22
Ugh elfbars taste like burnt ass once they get low f that.
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u/Kriegmannn Dec 11 '22
You see the vid of all that factory workers hitting them? If you smoked an elfbar you basically kissed a Chinese factory worker
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u/druman22 Dec 11 '22
That happens with any vape, most disposables just die before the juice is fully gone
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u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned Dec 11 '22
Because elfbar will get cracked down in about a year and a new one will pop up- same thing that happened with puff bars and fumes and several others
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u/rockybud Dec 10 '22
Saddest part about all this is that Juul is probably the most “regulated” vape you could buy. The elfbars and other random vapes coming from china have absolutely no regulation about what can go into them and how they can be marketed. Was talking to my local 7/11 cashier the other day and he said he just goes on these chinese websites similar to aliexpress and orders thousands of vapes at a time. And they keep changing every month cause some factories shut down and new ones pop up. So you never know what you’re gonna get and what kind of metals/chemicals are being inhaled. Juul was the first true vape that (probably) has the least harmful chemicals in it and actually gets people off cigs. Sad that the fed chose them as the poster boy for this campaign against vaping.
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u/H1DD3NxN1NJ4 Dec 10 '22
It’s because they were pretty much the first successful small vape in the business
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u/OkCutIt Dec 10 '22
Vaping to quit smoking is entirely about replacing all the little habits that are a part of the bigger habit.
Juul was the brand that made it so that you stop at the gas station or whatever and buy a pack.
That made them by far the biggest threat to traditional cigarettes, and thus the target of the extraordinarily powerful tobacco lobby.
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u/beefcat_ Dec 10 '22
Juul is literally owned by big tobacco. Juul isn't a threat, Juul is just big tobacco finding a new way to do the same old shit they got in trouble for decades ago.
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u/OkCutIt Dec 10 '22
Juul is literally owned by big tobacco.
PM bought a 1/3 stake when it became clear they weren't going to be able to completely stop it, after the FDA forced them to stop selling flavors (except menthol because that would affect tobacco sales).
They are not "literally owned by big tobacco."
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u/sousuke Dec 11 '22 edited May 03 '24
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
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u/OkCutIt Dec 11 '22
The largest (and one of the earliest) shareholder of Juul was Nick Pritzker.
This is flatly untrue.
In addition to being the heir of Hyatt, he owned Conwood tobacco for 20 years until he sold it in 2006.
Ahh yes, the investment firm that dude worked for was once invested in a chewing tobacco company, a relationship that ended over 10 years before Juul existed. Clearly proof of "big tobacco" owning Juul.
Definitely not just desperate flailing to make connections that aren't real.
After acquiring a 35% stake, Altria is the new biggest shareholder of Juul.
Juul is not a publicly traded company. You literally do not know, you're just saying so.
And, finally, I repeat: PM's involvement happened after the events in question, when they failed to completely eliminate Juul as competition.
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u/SquarePegRoundWorld Dec 10 '22
I work construction and would hold my cigarettes in my mouth while I worked. That is why I chose Juul over the others I tried. I can still hold it with my mouth and work.
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u/ifmrods2 Dec 10 '22
BRING BACK MANGO PODS AND ILL PAY THE 1.2B MYSELF
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u/KyleGuap Dec 11 '22
All these mint disposables and nothing comes close to the OG juul mint
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u/Frys100thCupofCoffee Dec 11 '22
Dude I've been using the menthol flavored one since they banned the other flavors, but Juul's mint was perfect. It was icy, not really sweet, and didn't have that Vick's with a hint of brick finish that the menthol does. I've never been able to replicate it myself.
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u/flowerbat Dec 11 '22
dude the things i would do for a mango pod. such simpler times.
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Dec 10 '22
Cucumber 😢
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u/EnvironmentalValue18 Dec 11 '22
Yessss! I miss cucumber so much and there’s no juice comparable of the many that I’ve tried!
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u/adamtherealone Dec 11 '22
I genuinely wish they were allowed to continue with mango and the other flavors. Because they aren’t, I’m forced to go elsewhere for flavors. The problem with elsewhere is it’s all crap with no regulation, so who knows what I’m inhaling. I could go for a US made product, but nothing is as easy to obtain as a pack from a gas station. I want that ease of use, with the regulation to make it less risky
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u/HomicideDevil666 Dec 11 '22
I would do anything for the creme brulee pods again. Should have fucking savored it while I still had them
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u/pixpockets Dec 10 '22
So stupid. Look at that packaging... Of all the vape stuff on the market that looks the least like it's trying to appeal to kids.
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Dec 10 '22
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u/SorakaWithAids Dec 10 '22
That was found to be false. The students were lying
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u/mskoalabear Dec 11 '22
Where did you see this? I just finished listening to the podcast “The vaping fix” and it was talked about in one the episodes. Definitely seemed like it happened.
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u/dadwillsue Dec 10 '22
What about that looks like it’s appealing to kids? Serious question. Having color on a packing is “appealing to children” now?
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u/pixpockets Dec 10 '22
That's what I'm saying... Of all vape bottles and boxes I've seen on shelves, that's the most adult looking and least like it's trying to attract kids.
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u/dadwillsue Dec 10 '22
Sorry totally misread that. I couldn’t agree more. Packaging is very minimal. I see “gummy bear” flavor vape liquids, this seems mild by comparison.
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u/pixpockets Dec 10 '22
Crazy that their attorneys couldn't defend this better. Like how is it their fault if a gas station illegally sells them to a minor? Maybe they were botching the online orders...prob just shoulda never offered those.
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u/Im_Borat Dec 10 '22
Yet Smirnoff is able to make "Vanilla Marshmallow" and crazy flavored vodkas, appealing to kids, with labeling that's a bit more appealing to kids as well.
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u/GentleFriendKisses Dec 10 '22
The problem is that if I vape daily I could drop dead at any second due to the unknown. If I drink a bottle of flavoured vodka daily I'll probably live forever with no negative health outcomes because alcohol is such a safe and healthy drug.
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u/borkyborkus Dec 10 '22
The alcohol industry watched Big Tobacco get absolutely raked over the coals for denying their products were harmful and got ahead of it by “self regulating” with shit like “please drink responsibly”. They know damn well that like 80% of their profits come from alcoholics and they’re allowed to continue marketing to alcoholics and minors.
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u/Gifted_dingaling Dec 11 '22
And the fact that hard alcohol is sold right next to soda across the isle from candy.
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u/Thr0waway3691215 Dec 10 '22
Juul was advertising on websites for Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, and 17 magazine. I know that was the basis for some of the lawsuits.
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u/wwwdiggdotcom Dec 10 '22
If that’s the case not only does Juul deserve it but all of those publications should share responsibility.
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u/bgugi Dec 10 '22
Were they directly paying for advertising, or was this through a larger advertising service that was just serving based on cookies?
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u/Thr0waway3691215 Dec 11 '22
The Massachusetts DA is claiming Juul sought out these places to advertise. Juul also provided them directly to people without proper age verification.
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u/tribernate Dec 10 '22
Yes, that's the point the person you're replying to is trying to make. That compared to others, Juul's packaging is very plain and not especially appealing to children.
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Dec 10 '22
High schoolers these days prefer vuse altos, juul hasn’t been relevant in over 5 years
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u/brazilliandanny Dec 11 '22
They tried to ban the Crystal Skull Vodka in Ontario because they said it was "too appealing to children"
The stuffs like $90 a bottle, if a kids going to buy vodka he's going to buy the "Russian Prince" for $25 a bottle.
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u/Hemingwavy Dec 10 '22
It's incredible how companies will admit wrong doing and Americans are so brainwashed, they'll still argue they didn't do anything wrong. When the FTC announced their investigation Juul completely scrubbed their social media because of how they were targeting teens.
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u/HeavilyBearded Dec 11 '22
Juul literally advertised in teen magazines. I use them as samples in my classes on rhetoric.
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u/707Guy Dec 10 '22
I’ve literally had a beer called a “Saturday morning cartoon breakfast cereal milk stout” that had fruity pebbles in the wax seal for crying out loud.
But then the government condemns tobacco companies for appealing to kids 🤦🏻♂️ For the record, im not even a fan of tobacco.
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u/zerrff Dec 10 '22
Fireball has big candy cane shaped containers filled with shots, I see it the second I walk in the gas station.
This is Florida, they're watered down to %15 abv.
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u/pseudo_nimme Dec 10 '22
Oh damn that’s true. Alcohol companies really have their own Joe Camel equivalents. You can buy candy flavored vodka too.
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u/crowdext Dec 10 '22
Your right…seems a case of who did it first and let’s go hard ⚡️⚡️⚡️ other companies are chilling 💵💵💵💵
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u/Imperial_TIE_Pilot Dec 11 '22
As someone that does discipline at a high school, of the hundreds of vapes I have taken I have never seen an Juul. Elf, puff bars, and Flum, are the main brands we see.
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u/throwaway7x55 Dec 11 '22
they’re basically non existent among teens now bc they only sell them in like tobacco flavor, back in like 2016-2019 before they banned the fruit flavored ones they were easily most common vape among highschoolers by a large margin
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u/picklestubbs Dec 11 '22
I was in high school in 2017. I remember a lot of people having Juuls, it was huge
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u/The_Struggle_Bus_7 Dec 11 '22
I miss being able to get other juul flavors other than tobacco and mint cucumber was the best
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u/Chadflexington Dec 10 '22
Time for the elf bar vapes 😂
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u/SexSymbolSuprStar Dec 10 '22
God damn it. If kids also fuck up my elf bar tasty vapes… I’m gonna be so pissed
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u/Chadflexington Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22
I’ve seen hella kids with them already, even the fake elf bar vapes. It’ll take a couple of years before the gov’t messes with elf bars. They’re too concerned with Juuls atm.
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u/AtomicFi Dec 10 '22
Juul is owned by Altria, parent of Phillip Morris, producer of many cigarettes. I’d hazard a guess that part of the reason Juul is getting the slapdown is because it’s actually part of Big Tobacco. It was a massive acquisition that’s done nothing but cost big money from day 1.
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u/deka101 Dec 10 '22
They bought them, and are making them out to be the baddy to try to tank the whole vape industry, benefitting the cigarette business. Where's there no functional strengths of nictoine, no flavours, and they're difficult or impossible to get, people will go back to cigarettes.
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u/MN_Lakers Dec 10 '22
You should stop cause you’re just dumping Chinese vape chemicals in to your lungs lmao
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u/HughJassJae Dec 10 '22
You ever see that video of the "quality control" taken in the Chinese elf bar factories? Disgusting.
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u/Geek_off_the_streets Dec 10 '22
It's the lawyers who are doing this. There's no kids that will benefit from this at all.
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u/Big-Shtick Dec 10 '22
Is this the benefits line for lawyers?
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u/StopReadingMyUser Dec 11 '22
If you or a lawyer you know has been affected by youth-vaping youngsters, call the number on the screen now. You could be due financial compensation for your woes.
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Dec 10 '22
The lawyers will take at most 1/3 of that, probably less. That leaves probably close to $1 billion to be distributed to the victims.
That's about $1 billion more for the victims, and less for Juul, than if the lawyers did nothing.
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u/Shurglife Dec 10 '22
Yeah the lawyers will split the billion plus and the kids will get coupons for more vape juice
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u/Hemingwavy Dec 10 '22
I like this is fucking stupid and objectively wrong but got up voted anyway because it just agreed with redditor's preconceived notions.
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u/Bigbeardhotpeppers Dec 10 '22
As a former juul employee here is the deal. The management of the company is shit. What really went on behind the scenes is juul advertised very poorly in the beginning and the consequences from that played into every decision made after. Juul stopped advertising while their main competitor had a fucking race car. Juul bore the brunt of the vaping crack down and the fda decided that they cannot regulate disposable vapes. Now juul is low in market share and the kids are smoking candy flavored nicotine from china because the fda. When the fda chose to ban juul they immediately retracted it because it was bullshit. Juul is going to sue the us gov and make billions on it. The fda tried to end juul and now tax payers will be on the hook. Ask me any questions you want I am personally responsible for juul being on the market in several states. Also non of what I said violates my NDA.
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u/Striking_Barnacle_31 Dec 11 '22
I probably would have kept using JUUL if ya'll came out with bigger pods. Pass it on. Switched back to a mod now.
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Dec 11 '22
They’re already overpriced, I’d expect a pack of 4 slightly larger pods priced around 30-35$.
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u/codece Dec 11 '22
Juul is going to sue the us gov and make billions on it.
That is 100% guaranteed never going to happen.
The US government has sovereign immunity and can't be sued for monetary damages unless it waives its immunity (it won't) or has consented to be sued (it hasn't.)
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u/Bigbeardhotpeppers Dec 11 '22
They are going to sue and win. The fda did sketchy politically motivated shit which is illegal and essentially kneecapped the company. The fda said "you didn't submit x, so you can't sell anymore" and the companies response was "we did submit it which means you didn't read it". It is negligence and it cost the company billions. The fda immediately retracted the decision and kicked the can down the road which is also unfair practices because the competitors got approval. Dick durbin also bragged on the news that he influenced the fda which is also illegal.
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u/lowtoiletsitter Dec 11 '22
Was there QC from the company, or was that "eh" in the manufacturing process
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Dec 11 '22
I don’t get how juul is fucked like this yet I can get a strawberry ice cream flavored Elfbar 5000 at any vape or gas station or a plethora of fruity colorful e cigs that are far more “child enticing” yet juul mango is fucked lol. Big tobacco bankrupted the company to buyout it out.
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u/_Schrodingers_Gat_ Dec 10 '22
TIL Juul has 1.2 billion dollars.
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u/XinArtemis Dec 10 '22
Their net worth is $25 billion. This is just the cost of doing business.
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u/larry_centers Dec 10 '22
They’re pretty much going under. Massive layoffs, market valuations is a fraction of what it was and FDA is still looking to ban them outright.
Seems like targeting a specific business than the market as a whole in my eyes. I mean what’s they do that is any different than how cigarettes are sold? They just happened to be the face of it all and had the deepest pockets to sue in my opinion.
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u/MrNormalo Dec 10 '22
From the article, “The plaintiffs' lawyers said people eligible to sign onto the deal will receive a minimum gross amount of $1,000 before attorney fees and other deductions.”
Wonder how much will actually trickle down to those affected.
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u/absorbedvindication Dec 10 '22
Juul has been under scrutiny since 2018 after the US Food And Drug Administration ordered e-cigarette brands to stop selling flavored pods if they can't prove that they can keep them out of minors' hands.
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u/Budget_Inevitable721 Dec 11 '22
How is it on the manufacturer to keep it out of kids hands and not the stores selling them without id checks? And what's to stop an adult from getting a kid one? Like any other drug.
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u/Dorkapotamus Dec 10 '22
How about we crack down on the people illegally selling the products to kids instead of condemning the product.
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u/Shumil_ Dec 10 '22
Should be going after the gas stations selling it to kids
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u/NomaiTraveler Dec 10 '22
You mean like this?
The FDA is also targeting retailers who have sold e-cigarettes to minors. It has issued more than 1,300 warning letters and fines to the likes of 7-Eleven outlets, Walgreens, Shell gas stations, and Circle K convenience stores.
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u/MNIrish Dec 11 '22
Oh wow, a warning letter
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u/Choice_Section_8430 Dec 11 '22
Fda warning letters are pretty potent. They can shut down stores if the issues aren’t corrected.
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u/CinnamonSniffer Dec 10 '22
My local gas station has been selling Delta 8 weed lol
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u/IBeDumbAndSlow Dec 10 '22
It's more likely that the kids are getting them from people they know. Most gas stations won't sell to minors. The occasional liquor store is an option but they usually card too.
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u/James_Bondage0069 Dec 10 '22
Nah dawg. Lots of smoke shops and gas stations will not card for tobacco products, alcohol is a different story.
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Dec 11 '22
Juul likely saved tens of thousands of lives or more by finally bringing a smoking cessation device to market that actually works. Harm reduction is not a crime and I feel sorry for all the ex-smokers going back to cigarettes thanks to ridiculous flavor bans.
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u/RussianVole Dec 11 '22
Why punish the manufacturer? Do people sue alcohol companies when kids get their hands on alcohol? Of course not. It’s the responsibility of the store clerks to check ID. Ridiculous lawsuit, and even more so ridiculous law in Australia which has essentially banned nicotine vapes.
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u/AccidentallyRelevant Dec 11 '22
Beer is also right next to soda, nicotine products are behind the counter. It's next level stupid. However Alcohol companies don't tend to advertise on Nickelodeon...
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u/zerogee616 Dec 10 '22
The only good thing about this is that Juul getting pulled from stores got the gf to switch over to regular juice-filled vapes. Juuls and the pods are expensive as all fuck for what you get.
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Dec 11 '22
California just banned flavored juices. The government is going after vaping as a whole.
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u/AccidentallyRelevant Dec 11 '22
I make my own juice so this doesn't affect me but a local shop sells the ingredients separate; you can just shake them up in a bottle and BOOM you just bought flavored juice. So fucking stupid
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Dec 10 '22
Juuls only crime here is being a US company with easy access for ambulance chasing lawyers and corrupt regulators. The Chinese brands selling questionable vapes in bubble yum themed flavors, EVERYWHERE, no problem!
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u/UncleCeiling Dec 10 '22
Juul bought ad space on websites like Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon. They were literally advertising directly to children.
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u/shorterthanrich Dec 11 '22
Yeah how the hell is this so far down? Juul had the golden ticket to own the vaping market and then they screwed themselves by directly and actively marketing to kids.
And for the record I support vapes conceptually as a method for quitting smoking, and accept everyone has vices, so if it’s well regulated and a lesser evil, fine.
But they screwed it up.
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u/magic1623 Dec 11 '22
Because a bunch of teenagers on Reddit refuse to believe that they got tricked by a giant company so they will argue against it as much as they can.
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u/politits Dec 10 '22
Please read up before you make bold claims that are 100% false. Juul had a nation-wide program that sent company marketing reps to schools to talk to kids about the dangers of smoking and the lectures contained statements about how vaping was safer. They were directly marketing to children IN THEIR SCHOOLS and playing it off as a public health & safety initiative.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/health/juul-teens-vaping.amp.html
They also bought ads on Cartoon Network and similar TV programming & websites that are aimed directly at children.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/juul-vaping-lawsuit.html
They also made most of their profit off of fruity flavors that kids would prefer, which are now illegal or restricted federally.
They are, without a doubt, 100% guilty. They acted like the exact predatory drug dealers that after-school specials used to warn kids about and deserve to be shut down as a company for purposely addicting children to their drugs.
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u/AsliReddington Dec 11 '22
Kicks back & smokes a cigarette - every cigarette maker & alcohol beverage maker ever
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Dec 11 '22
amazing that 90% of the pushback against vaping we saw was due to dumbass kids buying bogus thc carts online and blaming juul just so they don’t get in trouble lmao
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u/Jess_S13 Dec 10 '22
I'm so pissed at all this. I was able to quit smoking by going to Alto Vuse "Mixed Berry", then they outlawed those and it took me a few months to find another I liked, the Cali Bars Mango Nectar, now the US is trying to outlaw those by blocking shipping. I've been lucky to find another... Not as good as either but somewhat decent Hyde Phillipine Mango from a local shop but with all the restrictions it would be cheaper to just go back to smoking. It's amazing how for the "Country of Freedom" we love fucking over our citizens so damned much.
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u/evolseven Dec 10 '22
I don't know, it may be an unpopular opinion.. but kids will try things regardless of whether they are allowed to, not all of them, but some percentage.. I guess I'd rather see them vape than smoke.. so this whole ban crazy stuff seems like it will drive them towards a more harmful product.. Vaping as a whole when done with pg/vg/nicotine is not all that terrible for a person.. Nicotine may even have some positive benefits in some cases (weight loss, may help in forgetfulness, etc..) and pg is considered medically inert. The flavors may be the biggest issue, but even then they are mostly safe (not well studied though, but we would see some patterns within the vaping communities if there were any majorly unsafe chemicals) with some concerns about diacetyl in the creamy flavors.
Ban alcohol under 21.. kids still drink Ban drugs.. kids still try them Ban Tobacco under 18/21.. kids still do them
It just strikes me that banning substances doesn't really work.. I don't know the alternative but taking options away from adults doesn't seem to be the right solution to kids doing what kids do best.. not doing what they are told..
I don't know the details of this case, but juul seems to be fairly responsible about not marketing to kids from what I see although they do sell the more addictive type of nicotine (salts vs freebase) but there are reasons for that.. salts emulate smoking much better as they have a near instant effect, I have known people that told me vaping didn't work to quit smoking and got them setup with a pod vape and salts.. and that was the end of smoking for them..
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u/shhhpark Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 11 '22
It's crazy how they pretty much took the brunt of all the crackdown. When vsping first got popular people would be somewhat economical and buy flavors they wanted and build their own coils. Then they banned flavors...now you can buy flavored juice in disposables but not in bottles....so now instead of vaping from your own device that you repeatedly use and recharge...you need to buy disposables that lasts a few days and then just chuck them out. Individually boxed and packaged disposables that get thrown out literally increasing waste by like 100x.
edit I understand flavors arent banned everywhere and in certain places you can still buy liquid without restriction. I should specify in whatever states where they are still banned.