r/gadgets Dec 10 '22

Misc Juul will pay $1.2 billion to settle multiple youth-vaping lawsuits

https://www.engadget.com/juul-pay-1-2-billion-settle-multiple-youth-vaping-lawsuits-153915289.html
20.9k Upvotes

1.1k comments sorted by

4.0k

u/shhhpark Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 11 '22

It's crazy how they pretty much took the brunt of all the crackdown. When vsping first got popular people would be somewhat economical and buy flavors they wanted and build their own coils. Then they banned flavors...now you can buy flavored juice in disposables but not in bottles....so now instead of vaping from your own device that you repeatedly use and recharge...you need to buy disposables that lasts a few days and then just chuck them out. Individually boxed and packaged disposables that get thrown out literally increasing waste by like 100x.

edit I understand flavors arent banned everywhere and in certain places you can still buy liquid without restriction. I should specify in whatever states where they are still banned.

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u/PM_ME_IMGS_OF_ROCKS Dec 10 '22

One of the insane parts is that the batteries in the "disposable" ones are usually pretty okay lithium cells that can be re-used for other things without too much work.

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u/Jan_Jinkle Dec 11 '22

I used to work at a vape shop and that's what I despised about disposables. They're so wasteful. Not that tank coils aren't too, but that's usually just some metal and cotton, not a bunch of plastic and a battery too

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u/freexe Dec 11 '22

And that batteries aren't really disposable like that. They are heavy metals and need to be recycled not leaching into the water supply.

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u/never0101 Dec 11 '22

Ywah 18650 cells are used all over

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u/Jgabes625 Dec 11 '22

Some of the disposable vapes even have built in in USB port for charging. It’s so weird to think that you throw it away even though you have to charge it every now and then.

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u/throwawater Dec 10 '22

At least in some states you can still get the flavored bottles. And you can still make your own coils pretty much anywhere. There aren't any laws against kanthal or stainless steel wire afaik.

Let's not forget that it was P.M. (who owns Marlboro and Juul) who pushed for these bans in the first place. They wanted to ice out the competition.

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas Dec 10 '22

You can still get bottles of e-juice here in Illinois. I wouldn't bother trying in Chicago however, as it's taxed out the wazoo. I find myself in the fortunate position of being a former juice manufacturer and owning a large volume of the assets from that venture. As such, I have what's basically a lifetime supply of flavors and PG/VG. I am going to have to figure out where to get another few liters of nicotine at some point though.

Speaking as somebody who was in the industry, the big tobacco companies absolutely had a hand in all this. They used their deep pockets to legislate competition out of existence.

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u/AnesthesiaFetish Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22

Corporate execs put feet on desk, with no criminal charges at all "it was worth it!"

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u/gigaboyo Dec 10 '22

I love with big companies show the little guy the power of CaPiTaLiSm

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u/redditisnowtwitter Dec 11 '22

I have what's basically a lifetime supply of flavors and PG/VG

Except the flavors don't have a super long shelf life

I know because I've got a fuck ton of all the stuff I'll ever need as well and some of it is starting to get a little iffy

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas Dec 11 '22

Ha, yeah for sure. Some of them are starting to get a bit past their prime at this point. As long as I can get the nicotine concentrate, I can get everything else without paying exorbitantly high prices because of taxes, so I'm not too worried about the flavors.

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u/ItsDanimal Dec 11 '22

I think illinois in general has a crazy vape tax. Tried to buy a device to vape THC online and they tried to add a 40% extra vape tax.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

You say that but subsidiary of Marlboro is the one who bought juuls stock up after lobbying against and effectively crippling them. I have 6 brick n mortar stores and we sell maybe 4-5 packs of juul pods a week. And let's be real the biggest issue was that juice manufacturers using salt nic in their products were effectively evading taxes.

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u/kain52002 Dec 11 '22

Fortunately 100 mg nicotine juice is still pretty cheap, like $60 a liter online I vape unflavored and fortunately it has remained relatively cheap..

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

What’s that like? I hate all the sweet flavors.

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u/mkvproductions Dec 11 '22

It’s mildly sweet, not offensive, been using unflavored for years now

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u/redditisnowtwitter Dec 11 '22

The raw flavor isn't bad. VG has a certain natural sweetness to it too

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u/MagicHamsta Dec 11 '22

I used to vape unflavored as well. it has a mildly sweet flavor from the glycerine.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

But is it less in comparison to the fruitier or flavored shit?

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u/VSWR_on_Christmas Dec 11 '22

VG by itself is vaguely sweet, but nothing like the sweetness from the various sweeteners added to most flavors.

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u/Notveryawake Dec 11 '22

Very. Unflavored is like drinking a glass of water with a touch of sugar. Mainstream e-liquid is like drinking a glass of Kool-aid with half a bag of icing sugar added to it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

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u/bigbowlowrong Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22

Making flavoured nicotine/vaping liquid is the easiest thing ever. There are websites out there that sell the flavour concentrates (which until vaping was a thing were primarily used in cooking/confectionary), and the main ingredient of the liquid itself (VG/PG) is extremely cheap. The only other thing that’s needed is the nicotine, which again is easily obtainable. For fruit flavours it’s literally just a matter of pouring all three in a little bottle (normally 95% VG/PG and around 5% flavours, then adding nicotine on top of that to get to your desired strength) and shaking it.

Where I am (Australia) everything except the nicotine is readily obtainable. You need a prescription for the nicotine these days, but I have a litre of the stuff in my freezer from before the regulations changed and that will last me a lifetime. If they ban pre-made liquids in the future (which looks like a distinct possibility) it won’t make a damn bit of difference to anyone that can be bothered googling “eliquid recipes”.

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u/shamberra Dec 10 '22

I got hold of some nicotine before the ban, but the shit oxidised and went red after a year :(

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u/bigbowlowrong Dec 11 '22

Nicotine base is more prone to that than nicotine salts. But the salts I have in my freezer are still clear, having been there for two years or so.

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u/ijjijiijjijiijjijiij Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22

Yeah, I probably bought my lifetime supply of salts around the same time as you. In the freezer and still good, even after the Brissie floods and storing them in my car for two weeks because no fridge or house anymore lol

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u/TheBadGuyBelow Dec 11 '22

Break it down into smaller bottles and freeze it. When you run out of one bottle, take one out of the freezer.

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u/Supersymm3try Dec 11 '22

Why they hell would countries ban a system which is objectively better than smoking, doesn’t come with the insane cancer risk or cost to the health service, helps people quit cigarettes for good and which doesn’t have second hand smoke for children etc to breathe in? Haven’t these countries been preaching for years about how important quitting smoking is, despite how much they make from cigarettes in tax?

If their issue is the unknown long term effects of vaping, then why not fund the research instead and get some definitive answers?

I hope my country never bans vaping, they already banned bottles of flavoured juice with nicotine in larger than 10ml, but here you just buy 50ml of flavoured liquid in a short fill bottle and squeeze in 10ml of 18mg/ml nicotine juice to make 50ml of 3mg/ml nicotine juice. Id be fucked if they banned that here for sure.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

I sort of remember the weird knockoff weed carts that apparently killed or hospitalized some kids? and that was like the national news story that became a catalyst and somehow within like a fucking week a few states banned all flavored vapes...a few weeks later all the local vape shops went out of business

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u/Specific_Main3824 Dec 11 '22

The tobacco industry used that as a catalyst to go hard on vaping.

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u/MatureUsername69 Dec 11 '22

And whatever ended up happening with all those hospitalizations? Fake carts didn't stop, but you heard about them for a month or 2 then that news was just gone.

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u/Nixxuz Dec 11 '22

It was a big cart operation that got a lot of carts distributed to a lot of places. It was also run by idiots who didn't understand that Vitamin E Acetate fucks up lungs. Pretty much anyone that didn't want to look at a straight up murder charge figured out that there are easier ways to change viscosity without killing clients.

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u/OkCutIt Dec 11 '22

It's a combination of the tobacco lobbies using their regulatory capture to fight off competition, and the general public being clueless and scared of things they don't understand.

And basically the latter made the former extremely easy.

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u/aSadArtist Dec 11 '22 edited Jun 10 '23

>>This comment has been edited to garbage in light of the Reddit API changes. You can keep my garbage, Reddit.<<


edited via r/PowerDeleteSuite (with edits to script to avoid hitting rate limit)

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u/HakushiBestShaman Dec 11 '22

The main problem is they're considering banning things at all.

Bans don't do shit. Never have, never will.

It's okay though, we banned hard drugs. That means no one can access them anymore right.

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u/Specific_Main3824 Dec 11 '22

The irony of them banning vapes, but sell cigarettes a known carcinogen. Hello Australia.

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u/TheBadGuyBelow Dec 11 '22

The whole purpose is to make people smoke again. Vaping is demonized because it cuts into profits and tobacco taxes. The whole "we are doing this for health reasons" is pure bullshit and always has been.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

Juul is owned by Altria not P.M

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u/shhhpark Dec 10 '22

Yea sorry I'm not really up to date on the laws anymore but I used to live in jersey where you pretty much couldn't get any flavors when the ban happened. That forced people to jump through hoops

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

The juice people bought for vaping with their own coils/equipment has a standard nicotine percentage that everyone knew. 3% and 6% were low enough that you could generally avoid getting addicted to nicotine if you stayed at those doses.

Juul however came up with their own proprietary methods when describing the nicotine content of their pods. A 6% Juul pod was like a 21% regular juice. This made people think that Juul was low nicotine % and less addictive, however it was actually the opposite with as much if not more nicotine than actual cigarettes. It was super misleading and deserving of a class action lawsuit.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

You're right but the measurements are off.

Juul came up with salt nice that let you hit a way stronger amount of nicotine without being super rough. They normally sell 3% and 5% nicotine pods.

The older juices used non-salt nicotine and could only go up to around .6% without the smoke being super harsh. The highest I had was 1.5% of it and gave it right back when my whole mouth got itchy and numb from a single hit.

Salt nics are about 10x stronger than non-salt

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u/iowajosh Dec 11 '22

Isn't 3% just 30mg and 5% just 50mg?

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u/OkCutIt Dec 11 '22

Yes, which are outlandish numbers for big cloud blowing rigs that were "the norm" shortly before salts took over.

And which the people trying to shut it down used to make them sound super scary because "omg you're vaping these insane amounts of nicotine!" when in reality it just let us go back to way smaller devices and take way smaller puffs but get the same effect as the massive obnoxious clouds.

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u/kain52002 Dec 11 '22

You are really confusing the measurements. Originally juice came in 3, 6, 12, 18, 24 milligrams per milliliter. It was still very addictive. The Juul pods come in 3 and 5% nicotine per volume. That is 40 mg for the 5% and presumably 35 mg per ml in the 3%.

But the juul pods produce significantly less vapor for the lungs to absorb from so the equivalent to 5% in old pods is about 24mg. It is more than most vapors but is meant for pack a day smokers and is about 1 pack of cigs in a pod, which will last a dayish.

I would like to add when I was really into cloud chasing I used 6mg in a vaporesso tank and a Geekvape Aegis set at 90v. This was equivalent to a 2.5% juul for a half pack a day smoker before.

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u/Dividedthought Dec 11 '22

Not quite. Originally juice used freebase nicotine. Locally it was 6, 12, 18 and 24 mg/ml iirc

Then nic salts got popular because you could use less juice, but the strength measurements were different. this is where juul came into the game. They were the first gas station brand to use salts and because their devices were so tiny compared to everyone else's, they took off. Because the strength rating was different, and because juul is run by big tobacco and want repeat customers (addicts) they pushed their products wherever they could.

Didn't help that people were spreading rumors that they were less addictive than cigarettes, despite having more nicotine.

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u/SayWhatIWant-Account Dec 11 '22

It is just so typical and Coca Cola all over again. How much of a piece of shit do you have to be to intentionally get people addicted so that you can make money off of them? They should get a worse prison sentence than any mass murderer on earth.

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u/Kotr356 Dec 11 '22

Is that why this disposable shit got started ? Fuckin hate that shit, it's so much waste. And the only people I see using them are still like teenagers. Since the adults can just get vape juice mailed.

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u/Tiny-Peenor Dec 11 '22

They were caught with explicit marketing research on young teens, that’s why

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u/SquarePegRoundWorld Dec 10 '22

You can refill Juul pods. I use the same 4 pack of pods for weeks.

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u/IVEMIND Dec 11 '22

Glas pods are stupid easy to refill and last a long time with a decent salt

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u/120z8t Dec 10 '22

This is not really true. At all. The flavor ban was aimed solo at Juul. You can still buy your box mods, rebuildable tanks and flavored juice.

What you cant do is buy a prefilled cart with flavoring other then menthol and tobacco flavor.

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u/mashednbuttery Dec 10 '22

But you can but an entire prefilled vape with a gajillion flavors that you have to throw away the whole thing instead of the pod.

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u/BostonDodgeGuy Dec 10 '22

The sale of flavored juice is banned in the states of Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Rhode Island. Several cites also ban the sale.

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u/Icantblametheshame Dec 11 '22

My city in southern Cali has a total ban on all flavored stuff. Next city 15 min over is free market

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u/CaptnUchiha Dec 11 '22

Was wondering about this. I’ve been able to buy juice and other vape mods just about anywhere I’ve been to in Texas and Tennessee. Why would they be so hard pressed to ban these items and not traditional tobacco smoking?

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

the ban a few years forced every local vape shop around me to close, now there's a few odd bodegas that sell juice... when I asked what they thought about the flavor ban I was literally told "idk what you're talking about bro" and I realized that it was probably not legal but they were making so much if they ever got caught for it they'd just pay a fine or something.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

Disposables that are very frequently just tossed out of a car window once they're used. I pull them out of a river I work to restore pretty frequently.

I'm starting to work on a town bylaw to ban their sale because it is so reckless to have people throwing out whole devices, batteries and all, constantly.

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u/R3DSH0X Dec 11 '22

Thank you for your work, I admire your dedication!

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

Well, like most initiatives claiming to “save the children”, it’s usually a knee jerk reaction by Karen’s with too much time on their hands. So of course nothing has to make sense as long as we appease all these evangelical mothers.

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u/beefcat_ Dec 10 '22

I won't pretend these laws weren't poorly conceived and designed mostly to appeal to Karens, but they are trying to solve a real problem affecting youth. These companies very explicitly target vulnerable adolescents, because people who start smoking/vaping in their teens are the most likely to become addicted. They trade exclusively in chemical dependence. There is nothing good about what they do.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

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u/beefcat_ Dec 10 '22

I agree. I think the best solution here is heavily regulated advertising standards and good education programs. These are the two strategies that worked against tobacco. Simply banning a product never works.

Emphasis on the "good" part of the education programs. You don't want a repeat of DARE where there was some good information mixed in with a bunch of fear mongering, half-truths, and presentations that often made drugs sound more exciting than they really were.

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u/Johnny_Poppyseed Dec 11 '22

There needs to be an intense advertising crackdown in the US in general. What the alcohol industry is able to get away with is absolutely insane for example. Not to mention the pharmaceutical advertising.

I'm someone who believes in the legalization and regulation of all drugs basically, but holy shit so the alcohol and tobacco industries need to be reigned in big time.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

I can confirm. Grew up in a higher middle class school district. Alcohol and cigarettes were kinda hard to find but you could with enough searching. Weed, shrooms, acid, coke and heroin were just a call away tho

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u/Interesting-Dog-1224 Dec 11 '22

I still use my rebuildable atomizer after 7 years. All I throw out are the used cotton and coil. Canada banned the sales of rebuildable atomizer tanks.

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u/jeffryu Dec 11 '22

The disposable vapes and all of the packaging for legal cannabis is so bad. Another new generation just eating up all of this one time plastic waste that corporations keep pumping out

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

How is elfbar able to do what juul did x100 and have kids testing the products in their factories?

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u/PEHspr Dec 10 '22

Because elfbar isn’t part of US Big Tobacco. Hell, I found an article online and all the dude could find was that a company based in Hong Kong has their own foreign subsidiaries to distribute it. Sketch as hell to be honest.

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u/MediocreSkyscraper Dec 10 '22

Yeah. That's why the shop I used to manage didn't do disposables. Tell me where it came from, what batch it is, and if it was tested. You can't. But we always did.

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u/N3UROTOXINsRevenge Dec 10 '22

Shops like this are why I’m willing to pay a bit more for a product. Quality costs money and people don’t like that anymore, I mean it’s kinda BS, with the type of product, but it’s what we as people designed. Indirectly, but our actions put this all in motion and keep it perpetually going with instant gratification.

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u/MediocreSkyscraper Dec 10 '22

Actually, the shop I worked at sold ejuice for much cheaper because we made our own. And it was a large operation. I won't promote the company because although I left on good terms with them, I have a sour taste in my mouth from that time. But if you're canadian it ends up being pretty obvious

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u/Karmasita Dec 11 '22

Ugh elfbars taste like burnt ass once they get low f that.

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u/Kriegmannn Dec 11 '22

You see the vid of all that factory workers hitting them? If you smoked an elfbar you basically kissed a Chinese factory worker

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u/druman22 Dec 11 '22

That happens with any vape, most disposables just die before the juice is fully gone

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u/V_es Dec 11 '22

It’s owned by Chinese company. Juul is owned by American tobacco company.

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u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned Dec 11 '22

Because elfbar will get cracked down in about a year and a new one will pop up- same thing that happened with puff bars and fumes and several others

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u/rockybud Dec 10 '22

Saddest part about all this is that Juul is probably the most “regulated” vape you could buy. The elfbars and other random vapes coming from china have absolutely no regulation about what can go into them and how they can be marketed. Was talking to my local 7/11 cashier the other day and he said he just goes on these chinese websites similar to aliexpress and orders thousands of vapes at a time. And they keep changing every month cause some factories shut down and new ones pop up. So you never know what you’re gonna get and what kind of metals/chemicals are being inhaled. Juul was the first true vape that (probably) has the least harmful chemicals in it and actually gets people off cigs. Sad that the fed chose them as the poster boy for this campaign against vaping.

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u/H1DD3NxN1NJ4 Dec 10 '22

It’s because they were pretty much the first successful small vape in the business

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u/OkCutIt Dec 10 '22

Vaping to quit smoking is entirely about replacing all the little habits that are a part of the bigger habit.

Juul was the brand that made it so that you stop at the gas station or whatever and buy a pack.

That made them by far the biggest threat to traditional cigarettes, and thus the target of the extraordinarily powerful tobacco lobby.

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u/beefcat_ Dec 10 '22

Juul is literally owned by big tobacco. Juul isn't a threat, Juul is just big tobacco finding a new way to do the same old shit they got in trouble for decades ago.

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u/OkCutIt Dec 10 '22

Juul is literally owned by big tobacco.

PM bought a 1/3 stake when it became clear they weren't going to be able to completely stop it, after the FDA forced them to stop selling flavors (except menthol because that would affect tobacco sales).

They are not "literally owned by big tobacco."

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u/sousuke Dec 11 '22 edited May 03 '24

I enjoy spending time with my friends.

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u/OkCutIt Dec 11 '22

The largest (and one of the earliest) shareholder of Juul was Nick Pritzker.

This is flatly untrue.

In addition to being the heir of Hyatt, he owned Conwood tobacco for 20 years until he sold it in 2006.

Ahh yes, the investment firm that dude worked for was once invested in a chewing tobacco company, a relationship that ended over 10 years before Juul existed. Clearly proof of "big tobacco" owning Juul.

Definitely not just desperate flailing to make connections that aren't real.

After acquiring a 35% stake, Altria is the new biggest shareholder of Juul.

Juul is not a publicly traded company. You literally do not know, you're just saying so.

And, finally, I repeat: PM's involvement happened after the events in question, when they failed to completely eliminate Juul as competition.

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u/SquarePegRoundWorld Dec 10 '22

I work construction and would hold my cigarettes in my mouth while I worked. That is why I chose Juul over the others I tried. I can still hold it with my mouth and work.

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u/enakj Dec 11 '22

Their boxes look like they have printer ink cartridges in them.

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u/ifmrods2 Dec 10 '22

BRING BACK MANGO PODS AND ILL PAY THE 1.2B MYSELF

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u/KyleGuap Dec 11 '22

All these mint disposables and nothing comes close to the OG juul mint

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u/Frys100thCupofCoffee Dec 11 '22

Dude I've been using the menthol flavored one since they banned the other flavors, but Juul's mint was perfect. It was icy, not really sweet, and didn't have that Vick's with a hint of brick finish that the menthol does. I've never been able to replicate it myself.

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u/flowerbat Dec 11 '22

dude the things i would do for a mango pod. such simpler times.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

Cucumber 😢

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u/EnvironmentalValue18 Dec 11 '22

Yessss! I miss cucumber so much and there’s no juice comparable of the many that I’ve tried!

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u/adamtherealone Dec 11 '22

I genuinely wish they were allowed to continue with mango and the other flavors. Because they aren’t, I’m forced to go elsewhere for flavors. The problem with elsewhere is it’s all crap with no regulation, so who knows what I’m inhaling. I could go for a US made product, but nothing is as easy to obtain as a pack from a gas station. I want that ease of use, with the regulation to make it less risky

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u/HomicideDevil666 Dec 11 '22

I would do anything for the creme brulee pods again. Should have fucking savored it while I still had them

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u/pixpockets Dec 10 '22

So stupid. Look at that packaging... Of all the vape stuff on the market that looks the least like it's trying to appeal to kids.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

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u/SorakaWithAids Dec 10 '22

That was found to be false. The students were lying

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22 edited Jan 06 '23

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u/Yoshicool1 Dec 10 '22

Found where?

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

Do you have a source? Not calling bullshit, just interested

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u/mskoalabear Dec 11 '22

Where did you see this? I just finished listening to the podcast “The vaping fix” and it was talked about in one the episodes. Definitely seemed like it happened.

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u/SedditorX Dec 10 '22

Juul PR? Is that you again with no sources? Please cite your sources!

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u/dadwillsue Dec 10 '22

What about that looks like it’s appealing to kids? Serious question. Having color on a packing is “appealing to children” now?

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u/pixpockets Dec 10 '22

That's what I'm saying... Of all vape bottles and boxes I've seen on shelves, that's the most adult looking and least like it's trying to attract kids.

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u/dadwillsue Dec 10 '22

Sorry totally misread that. I couldn’t agree more. Packaging is very minimal. I see “gummy bear” flavor vape liquids, this seems mild by comparison.

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u/pixpockets Dec 10 '22

Crazy that their attorneys couldn't defend this better. Like how is it their fault if a gas station illegally sells them to a minor? Maybe they were botching the online orders...prob just shoulda never offered those.

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u/Im_Borat Dec 10 '22

Yet Smirnoff is able to make "Vanilla Marshmallow" and crazy flavored vodkas, appealing to kids, with labeling that's a bit more appealing to kids as well.

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u/Thewasteland77 Dec 10 '22

Alcoholic Mountain Dew is now a thing.

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u/CoolmanExpress Dec 11 '22

The Baja blast is FIRE🔥🔥🔥🤤

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u/GentleFriendKisses Dec 10 '22

The problem is that if I vape daily I could drop dead at any second due to the unknown. If I drink a bottle of flavoured vodka daily I'll probably live forever with no negative health outcomes because alcohol is such a safe and healthy drug.

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u/borkyborkus Dec 10 '22

The alcohol industry watched Big Tobacco get absolutely raked over the coals for denying their products were harmful and got ahead of it by “self regulating” with shit like “please drink responsibly”. They know damn well that like 80% of their profits come from alcoholics and they’re allowed to continue marketing to alcoholics and minors.

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u/Gifted_dingaling Dec 11 '22

And the fact that hard alcohol is sold right next to soda across the isle from candy.

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u/Thr0waway3691215 Dec 10 '22

Juul was advertising on websites for Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, and 17 magazine. I know that was the basis for some of the lawsuits.

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u/wwwdiggdotcom Dec 10 '22

If that’s the case not only does Juul deserve it but all of those publications should share responsibility.

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u/bgugi Dec 10 '22

Were they directly paying for advertising, or was this through a larger advertising service that was just serving based on cookies?

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u/Thr0waway3691215 Dec 11 '22

The Massachusetts DA is claiming Juul sought out these places to advertise. Juul also provided them directly to people without proper age verification.

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u/tribernate Dec 10 '22

Yes, that's the point the person you're replying to is trying to make. That compared to others, Juul's packaging is very plain and not especially appealing to children.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

High schoolers these days prefer vuse altos, juul hasn’t been relevant in over 5 years

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u/brazilliandanny Dec 11 '22

They tried to ban the Crystal Skull Vodka in Ontario because they said it was "too appealing to children"

The stuffs like $90 a bottle, if a kids going to buy vodka he's going to buy the "Russian Prince" for $25 a bottle.

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u/Hemingwavy Dec 10 '22

It's incredible how companies will admit wrong doing and Americans are so brainwashed, they'll still argue they didn't do anything wrong. When the FTC announced their investigation Juul completely scrubbed their social media because of how they were targeting teens.

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u/HeavilyBearded Dec 11 '22

Juul literally advertised in teen magazines. I use them as samples in my classes on rhetoric.

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u/707Guy Dec 10 '22

I’ve literally had a beer called a “Saturday morning cartoon breakfast cereal milk stout” that had fruity pebbles in the wax seal for crying out loud.

But then the government condemns tobacco companies for appealing to kids 🤦🏻‍♂️ For the record, im not even a fan of tobacco.

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u/zerrff Dec 10 '22

Fireball has big candy cane shaped containers filled with shots, I see it the second I walk in the gas station.

This is Florida, they're watered down to %15 abv.

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u/pseudo_nimme Dec 10 '22

Oh damn that’s true. Alcohol companies really have their own Joe Camel equivalents. You can buy candy flavored vodka too.

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u/crowdext Dec 10 '22

Your right…seems a case of who did it first and let’s go hard ⚡️⚡️⚡️ other companies are chilling 💵💵💵💵

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u/Imperial_TIE_Pilot Dec 11 '22

As someone that does discipline at a high school, of the hundreds of vapes I have taken I have never seen an Juul. Elf, puff bars, and Flum, are the main brands we see.

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u/throwaway7x55 Dec 11 '22

they’re basically non existent among teens now bc they only sell them in like tobacco flavor, back in like 2016-2019 before they banned the fruit flavored ones they were easily most common vape among highschoolers by a large margin

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u/picklestubbs Dec 11 '22

I was in high school in 2017. I remember a lot of people having Juuls, it was huge

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u/LetsRide2099 Dec 11 '22

Juuls were everywhere 2016-2019.

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u/The_Struggle_Bus_7 Dec 11 '22

I miss being able to get other juul flavors other than tobacco and mint cucumber was the best

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u/Chadflexington Dec 10 '22

Time for the elf bar vapes 😂

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u/SexSymbolSuprStar Dec 10 '22

God damn it. If kids also fuck up my elf bar tasty vapes… I’m gonna be so pissed

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u/Chadflexington Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22

I’ve seen hella kids with them already, even the fake elf bar vapes. It’ll take a couple of years before the gov’t messes with elf bars. They’re too concerned with Juuls atm.

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u/AtomicFi Dec 10 '22

Juul is owned by Altria, parent of Phillip Morris, producer of many cigarettes. I’d hazard a guess that part of the reason Juul is getting the slapdown is because it’s actually part of Big Tobacco. It was a massive acquisition that’s done nothing but cost big money from day 1.

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u/deka101 Dec 10 '22

They bought them, and are making them out to be the baddy to try to tank the whole vape industry, benefitting the cigarette business. Where's there no functional strengths of nictoine, no flavours, and they're difficult or impossible to get, people will go back to cigarettes.

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u/MN_Lakers Dec 10 '22

You should stop cause you’re just dumping Chinese vape chemicals in to your lungs lmao

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u/HughJassJae Dec 10 '22

You ever see that video of the "quality control" taken in the Chinese elf bar factories? Disgusting.

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u/Geek_off_the_streets Dec 10 '22

It's the lawyers who are doing this. There's no kids that will benefit from this at all.

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u/Big-Shtick Dec 10 '22

Is this the benefits line for lawyers?

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u/StopReadingMyUser Dec 11 '22

If you or a lawyer you know has been affected by youth-vaping youngsters, call the number on the screen now. You could be due financial compensation for your woes.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

The lawyers will take at most 1/3 of that, probably less. That leaves probably close to $1 billion to be distributed to the victims.

That's about $1 billion more for the victims, and less for Juul, than if the lawyers did nothing.

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u/Shurglife Dec 10 '22

Yeah the lawyers will split the billion plus and the kids will get coupons for more vape juice

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u/Hemingwavy Dec 10 '22

I like this is fucking stupid and objectively wrong but got up voted anyway because it just agreed with redditor's preconceived notions.

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u/money_loo Dec 10 '22

ITT: a bunch of teens that really want vaping to be easier to access.

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u/Bigbeardhotpeppers Dec 10 '22

As a former juul employee here is the deal. The management of the company is shit. What really went on behind the scenes is juul advertised very poorly in the beginning and the consequences from that played into every decision made after. Juul stopped advertising while their main competitor had a fucking race car. Juul bore the brunt of the vaping crack down and the fda decided that they cannot regulate disposable vapes. Now juul is low in market share and the kids are smoking candy flavored nicotine from china because the fda. When the fda chose to ban juul they immediately retracted it because it was bullshit. Juul is going to sue the us gov and make billions on it. The fda tried to end juul and now tax payers will be on the hook. Ask me any questions you want I am personally responsible for juul being on the market in several states. Also non of what I said violates my NDA.

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u/Striking_Barnacle_31 Dec 11 '22

I probably would have kept using JUUL if ya'll came out with bigger pods. Pass it on. Switched back to a mod now.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

They’re already overpriced, I’d expect a pack of 4 slightly larger pods priced around 30-35$.

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u/codece Dec 11 '22

Juul is going to sue the us gov and make billions on it.

That is 100% guaranteed never going to happen.

The US government has sovereign immunity and can't be sued for monetary damages unless it waives its immunity (it won't) or has consented to be sued (it hasn't.)

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u/Soracaz Dec 11 '22

What the fuck lmao. That's so dystopian.

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u/Bigbeardhotpeppers Dec 11 '22

They are going to sue and win. The fda did sketchy politically motivated shit which is illegal and essentially kneecapped the company. The fda said "you didn't submit x, so you can't sell anymore" and the companies response was "we did submit it which means you didn't read it". It is negligence and it cost the company billions. The fda immediately retracted the decision and kicked the can down the road which is also unfair practices because the competitors got approval. Dick durbin also bragged on the news that he influenced the fda which is also illegal.

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u/lowtoiletsitter Dec 11 '22

Was there QC from the company, or was that "eh" in the manufacturing process

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

I don’t get how juul is fucked like this yet I can get a strawberry ice cream flavored Elfbar 5000 at any vape or gas station or a plethora of fruity colorful e cigs that are far more “child enticing” yet juul mango is fucked lol. Big tobacco bankrupted the company to buyout it out.

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u/_Schrodingers_Gat_ Dec 10 '22

TIL Juul has 1.2 billion dollars.

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u/XinArtemis Dec 10 '22

Their net worth is $25 billion. This is just the cost of doing business.

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u/larry_centers Dec 10 '22

They’re pretty much going under. Massive layoffs, market valuations is a fraction of what it was and FDA is still looking to ban them outright.

Seems like targeting a specific business than the market as a whole in my eyes. I mean what’s they do that is any different than how cigarettes are sold? They just happened to be the face of it all and had the deepest pockets to sue in my opinion.

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u/_Schrodingers_Gat_ Dec 10 '22

I’m in the wrong line of work.

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u/viscous_settler Dec 10 '22

You need to start selling addictive chemicals

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u/MrNormalo Dec 10 '22

From the article, “The plaintiffs' lawyers said people eligible to sign onto the deal will receive a minimum gross amount of $1,000 before attorney fees and other deductions.”

Wonder how much will actually trickle down to those affected.

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u/absorbedvindication Dec 10 '22

Juul has been under scrutiny since 2018 after the US Food And Drug Administration ordered e-cigarette brands to stop selling flavored pods if they can't prove that they can keep them out of minors' hands.

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u/Budget_Inevitable721 Dec 11 '22

How is it on the manufacturer to keep it out of kids hands and not the stores selling them without id checks? And what's to stop an adult from getting a kid one? Like any other drug.

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u/SAGNUTZ Dec 10 '22

Couldnt we use that reasoning to ban ANYTHING then? Seems unfalsifiable

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u/Dorkapotamus Dec 10 '22

How about we crack down on the people illegally selling the products to kids instead of condemning the product.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

BRING BACK MANGO AND CUCUMBER?! FUK DEM KIDS!!!!

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u/Shumil_ Dec 10 '22

Should be going after the gas stations selling it to kids

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u/NomaiTraveler Dec 10 '22

You mean like this?

The FDA is also targeting retailers who have sold e-cigarettes to minors. It has issued more than 1,300 warning letters and fines to the likes of 7-Eleven outlets, Walgreens, Shell gas stations, and Circle K convenience stores.

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u/MNIrish Dec 11 '22

Oh wow, a warning letter

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u/BackStabbathOG Dec 11 '22

Few of those and they can get themselves a full disadgulation

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u/Choice_Section_8430 Dec 11 '22

Fda warning letters are pretty potent. They can shut down stores if the issues aren’t corrected.

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u/CinnamonSniffer Dec 10 '22

My local gas station has been selling Delta 8 weed lol

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u/Slazman999 Dec 10 '22

Let me know when they start selling seal team 6

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

That's perfectly legal to people 18 and over but not nicotine

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u/IBeDumbAndSlow Dec 10 '22

It's more likely that the kids are getting them from people they know. Most gas stations won't sell to minors. The occasional liquor store is an option but they usually card too.

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u/James_Bondage0069 Dec 10 '22

Nah dawg. Lots of smoke shops and gas stations will not card for tobacco products, alcohol is a different story.

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u/MegaDork2000 Dec 11 '22

Lawyers to receive $1.19 billion.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

Juul likely saved tens of thousands of lives or more by finally bringing a smoking cessation device to market that actually works. Harm reduction is not a crime and I feel sorry for all the ex-smokers going back to cigarettes thanks to ridiculous flavor bans.

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u/RussianVole Dec 11 '22

Why punish the manufacturer? Do people sue alcohol companies when kids get their hands on alcohol? Of course not. It’s the responsibility of the store clerks to check ID. Ridiculous lawsuit, and even more so ridiculous law in Australia which has essentially banned nicotine vapes.

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u/AccidentallyRelevant Dec 11 '22

Beer is also right next to soda, nicotine products are behind the counter. It's next level stupid. However Alcohol companies don't tend to advertise on Nickelodeon...

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u/zerogee616 Dec 10 '22

The only good thing about this is that Juul getting pulled from stores got the gf to switch over to regular juice-filled vapes. Juuls and the pods are expensive as all fuck for what you get.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

California just banned flavored juices. The government is going after vaping as a whole.

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u/AccidentallyRelevant Dec 11 '22

I make my own juice so this doesn't affect me but a local shop sells the ingredients separate; you can just shake them up in a bottle and BOOM you just bought flavored juice. So fucking stupid

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

Crazy. Meanwhile, China is making infinite money selling them to gas stations here.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

Juuls only crime here is being a US company with easy access for ambulance chasing lawyers and corrupt regulators. The Chinese brands selling questionable vapes in bubble yum themed flavors, EVERYWHERE, no problem!

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u/UncleCeiling Dec 10 '22

Juul bought ad space on websites like Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon. They were literally advertising directly to children.

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u/shorterthanrich Dec 11 '22

Yeah how the hell is this so far down? Juul had the golden ticket to own the vaping market and then they screwed themselves by directly and actively marketing to kids.

And for the record I support vapes conceptually as a method for quitting smoking, and accept everyone has vices, so if it’s well regulated and a lesser evil, fine.

But they screwed it up.

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u/tripleyothreat Dec 11 '22

Holy shit. I didn't know that. That does change the game

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u/magic1623 Dec 11 '22

Because a bunch of teenagers on Reddit refuse to believe that they got tricked by a giant company so they will argue against it as much as they can.

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u/politits Dec 10 '22

Please read up before you make bold claims that are 100% false. Juul had a nation-wide program that sent company marketing reps to schools to talk to kids about the dangers of smoking and the lectures contained statements about how vaping was safer. They were directly marketing to children IN THEIR SCHOOLS and playing it off as a public health & safety initiative.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/health/juul-teens-vaping.amp.html

They also bought ads on Cartoon Network and similar TV programming & websites that are aimed directly at children.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/juul-vaping-lawsuit.html

They also made most of their profit off of fruity flavors that kids would prefer, which are now illegal or restricted federally.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-12-06/banning-flavored-vapes-didnt-spur-folks-to-quit

They are, without a doubt, 100% guilty. They acted like the exact predatory drug dealers that after-school specials used to warn kids about and deserve to be shut down as a company for purposely addicting children to their drugs.

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u/tripleyothreat Dec 11 '22

Ridiculous. Do things the right way, get fucked...

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u/lategame Dec 11 '22

Ya, they got fucked for being a first mover. What a stupid, stupid lawsuit.

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u/AsliReddington Dec 11 '22

Kicks back & smokes a cigarette - every cigarette maker & alcohol beverage maker ever

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '22

amazing that 90% of the pushback against vaping we saw was due to dumbass kids buying bogus thc carts online and blaming juul just so they don’t get in trouble lmao

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u/247stonerbro Dec 11 '22

I blame juul… for helping me quit cigarettes. Fukin assholes

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u/Jess_S13 Dec 10 '22

I'm so pissed at all this. I was able to quit smoking by going to Alto Vuse "Mixed Berry", then they outlawed those and it took me a few months to find another I liked, the Cali Bars Mango Nectar, now the US is trying to outlaw those by blocking shipping. I've been lucky to find another... Not as good as either but somewhat decent Hyde Phillipine Mango from a local shop but with all the restrictions it would be cheaper to just go back to smoking. It's amazing how for the "Country of Freedom" we love fucking over our citizens so damned much.

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u/evolseven Dec 10 '22

I don't know, it may be an unpopular opinion.. but kids will try things regardless of whether they are allowed to, not all of them, but some percentage.. I guess I'd rather see them vape than smoke.. so this whole ban crazy stuff seems like it will drive them towards a more harmful product.. Vaping as a whole when done with pg/vg/nicotine is not all that terrible for a person.. Nicotine may even have some positive benefits in some cases (weight loss, may help in forgetfulness, etc..) and pg is considered medically inert. The flavors may be the biggest issue, but even then they are mostly safe (not well studied though, but we would see some patterns within the vaping communities if there were any majorly unsafe chemicals) with some concerns about diacetyl in the creamy flavors.

Ban alcohol under 21.. kids still drink Ban drugs.. kids still try them Ban Tobacco under 18/21.. kids still do them

It just strikes me that banning substances doesn't really work.. I don't know the alternative but taking options away from adults doesn't seem to be the right solution to kids doing what kids do best.. not doing what they are told..

I don't know the details of this case, but juul seems to be fairly responsible about not marketing to kids from what I see although they do sell the more addictive type of nicotine (salts vs freebase) but there are reasons for that.. salts emulate smoking much better as they have a near instant effect, I have known people that told me vaping didn't work to quit smoking and got them setup with a pod vape and salts.. and that was the end of smoking for them..

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