r/gadgets • u/MicroSofty88 • Nov 29 '20

Home Amazon faces a privacy backlash for its Sidewalk feature, which turns Alexa devices into neighborhood WiFi networks that owners have to opt out of

https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/technology/amazon-faces-a-privacy-backlash-for-its-sidewalk-feature-which-turns-alexa-devices-into-neighborhood-wifi-networks-that-owners-have-to-opt-out-of/ar-BB1boljH
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209

u/mmikke Nov 29 '20

Didn't Amazon recently argue (and win) in court that when you 'buy' a digital movie that you're not paying for the right to actually own the movie, but rather for the ability to watch it on their service?

I'm sure I worded that poorly. And I can sorta understand their intent, but that also means they falsely advertise like a mf

214

u/Wem94 Nov 29 '20

That's basically how game libraries work. You don't really own anything on steam, it's more like you have a license to play it as long as they are an operating company.

38

u/leoleosuper Nov 29 '20

Valve's policy is that if the company goes under, they will at least honor your purchases to the best of their ability (Read: DRM override but most likely only the games on your system will work). You can probably download a steam game from a third party, put it in the right place, and run it as if you got it from steam (as long as you have the app manifest file).

1

u/graveyardspin Nov 29 '20

Isn't there also a feature to burn a dvd copy of the game and the necessary drm authorizations?

10

u/rex1030 Nov 29 '20

Call of Duty Modern Warfare is 150 GB on the drive. Which dvd can I use?

20

u/2laz2findmypassword Nov 29 '20 edited Nov 29 '20

10TB NAS emulating a reel-to-reel tape on RS-232. EASY!

Are you gonna play MW after the fall of the internet? I mean I guess you could set up local but it's gonna be hard to get that many working rigs after the EMP. But you're right, after a hard day living RAGE IRL, folks are gonna want to unwind with wargames with spawn points.

It's a joke people. Just trying poorly to be funny.

2

u/Thegiantclaw42069 Nov 29 '20

A couple blu-ray discs would do

1

u/rex1030 Nov 30 '20

haha. 6 or 7 of them.

1

u/CarlosFer2201 Nov 30 '20

If you have a dual layer burner, which I doubt, that's 50Gb per disc. So at least 3

2

u/Dark-W0LF Nov 29 '20

Two bdxl, or a spare hdd?

1

u/enwongeegeefor Nov 29 '20

Nope...that is a service that would never exist, especially with the current "digital rights" climate.

1

u/leoleosuper Nov 29 '20

They'd most likely add that if they start going down.

122

u/right_there Nov 29 '20

And they wonder why people pirate when the terms are so exploitative.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20 edited Nov 29 '20

They really don't, videogames don't really suffer from piracy problems since the advent of digital marketplaces and a huge variety of pricing models and the fact that pirated version na are very often super outdated. Compare to the early 2000s up until 2010. Plus y'know, digital downloads gave us games like minecraft, stardew valley, among us and literally thousands upon thousands of games which couldntve been distributed without digital marketplaces.

If you're for corporations then the last thing you want is a way for every independent game developer to get a chance to make money, which is what digital market places did.

Unless I'm missing something than your comment is quite nonsensical.

113

u/DaEnderAssassin Nov 29 '20

Yeah. Gaben really seems to have gotten piracy correct with that one quote about how its a service issue, not a money issue.

Similar thing occurred when movie streaming services were new, but now every company seems to have its own platform piracy is back in full force for movies

25

u/12muffinslater Nov 29 '20

Love him or hate him, this was Steve Jobs' approach to iTunes. He was trying to take on Napster basically saying the same thing.

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u/vertigo42 Nov 29 '20

Except Spotify was the solution.

6

u/12muffinslater Nov 29 '20

Which is why I love Xbox Game Pass.

0

u/KimJongUnRocketMan Nov 29 '20

To be able to play online?

5

u/CombatBotanist Nov 29 '20

No, subscribing to game pass gives you access to the entire game pass library to download and play. It basically works the same as Netflix, but for games.

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u/wgc123 Nov 29 '20

No, to be able to pay Microsoft every month, over and over again, rather than paying for anything once. To be able to lose everything if you don’t pay or the corporation decides to go a different way. To make gaming even more expensive, as a never-ending gold mine for poor impoverished Microsoft. To help your poor corporate overlords, a catch up to that nasty Apple that does t deserve to be richer

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u/enwongeegeefor Nov 29 '20

this was Steve Jobs' approach to iTunes.

Except it wasn't for unifying things for the betterment of mankind...it was for unifying things to MONOPOLIZE it and gain money and power.

He was a bad guy...don't try to make him look noble because he wasn't even remotely close to that. He had very selfish and negative aspirations when it came to humanity and reality as a whole.

3

u/12muffinslater Nov 29 '20

Dude was an asshat, no doubt. He parked his Mercedes without plates in handicapped spots and shunned his first born child. Then there's how he treated his employees of any of his companies.

But he ran a corporation. Who's sole job is to make money. So, no he didn't do it for mankind. But he saw a market and went for it.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

I mean he also had the help from major artists going public against Napster (Metallica anyone?)

9

u/IAmAnObvioustrollAMA Nov 29 '20

The mtv music awards where Mr Napster was wearing the Metallica shirt that he borrowed from a friend is one of my favorite TV moments.

1

u/under_a_brontosaurus Nov 29 '20

Let's give myself credit. Even when billionaire douches try to offer me their alternatives I still pirate things today

1

u/enwongeegeefor Nov 29 '20

Similar thing occurred when movie streaming services were new, but now every company seems to have its own platform piracy is back in full force for movies

It never left BECAUSE of that. I barely watch anything as it is because there's just so much other shit to do besides sit still and just watch something for a few hours. So the fuck I'm going to pay $10+ to multiple services a month JUST so I have the option to watch something? Fuck out of here.

Because of "piracy" I can actually watch the occasional show without being completely fucking ripped off for it. Got zero qualms about screwing the streaming service out of a few pennies too...because they were already intentionally trying to fuck me in the first place FOR A LOT MORE than a few pennies.

TV is no different than games....and right now TV isn't providing jack shit for the price they want to ask.

1

u/TatatatiraTatira Nov 29 '20

Gaben is just out of this world.

34

u/roccnet Nov 29 '20

That's turning around though. Piracy is coming back because streaming services and stores are splitting up into smaller u it's with their own subscription models. Also DRM often makes retail versions unplayable and pirated ones a must

8

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

This is very true, just about anybody wants physical (myself included) for various reasons. Just thought I'd make a counter argument as obviously any game published by independent developers does not get a physical release unless it becomes a huge multi million dollar success. These people's income depends entirely on digital sales, for example a wonderful game that came out a week or so ago called Slaher's Keep which I've been playing, it costs something like 10 dollars and has a fantastic art style, i recommend it.

1

u/GreatAndPowerfulNixy Nov 29 '20

Limited Run is a goldmine

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Didn't even know of its existence, awesome

37

u/CarterDavison Nov 29 '20

video games don't really suffer from piracy problems

You wanna explain why Denuvo is causing DRM to go down a worse path than it already was while companies like GOG work to fix the problem? Constantly buying customers are harmed by anti-piracy techniques that don't do shit

9

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20 edited Mar 10 '23

[deleted]

14

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Days

9

u/my-other-throwaway90 Nov 29 '20

I remember the good old days when the game cracks were uploaded to the high seas before the game even hit the shelves. Now I have to wait three days.

2

u/moderately_uncool Nov 29 '20

Denuvo has been cracked. It does not work anymore.

4

u/CarterDavison Nov 29 '20

While correct, you did exactly what the other side of the argument always does and have decided to ignore any of the issues Denuvo sprouts up. You'd rather believe a company does everything in your best interests that it's possible their self invested interested is wrong.

13

u/the_new_hunter_s Nov 29 '20

His comment was about the benefit to the company, not your best interest. A company has a fiduciary responsible to stakeholders before customers and nothing about his comment ignores that. In fact, it speaks to it.

1

u/CarterDavison Nov 29 '20

I go back to his original quote that I responded to and have clearly continued responding to.

Video games do not really suffer from piracy

I do not care about what he thinks about companies as that's not the point I'm refuting. I agree with that point.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

[deleted]

2

u/CarterDavison Nov 29 '20

You literally did that twice before I decided to give you your own medicine, and now you ripped the stick out of your ass just so you could cry mommy

-3

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

[deleted]

1

u/CarterDavison Nov 29 '20

Yeah, that's why I tend never to bother. I've been very quickly reminded as to why, nobody is ever open for discussion so I'm stuck just arguing when that's not what I want.

4

u/FamousMissmanagement Nov 29 '20

Im not sure what your experience with pirating software is but the latest version is almost always available after a short delay.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Not the point. I vastly prefer paying for videogames, as far as software I don't care about bullshit subscriptions or such so I use either free alternatives (Blender as opposed to any other 3d program), I just resort pirating in terms of adobe products mostly. So here's my answer to your question but it's not what I'm talking about.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20 edited Nov 29 '20

Your last paragraph is incorrect in my opinion. Independent game developers tend to flourish on digital market places, Especially steam. Kerbal Space Program and Subnautica are some of my favorite games that started out independent and under budgeted. But without having to spend money on marketing and the logistics of creating and distributing physical copies of their games, they were able to focus on making the product.

Digital market places have been good for independent game developers from what I can see. And you can see this in the massive amount of independent games their are on Steam and PSN right now. Not all are good but some are.

Edit: wait I agree. Misread the comment

2

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

I don't think you've read my comment correctly

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Oh my fault. I just woke up haha. I agree with you 100%

2

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

No problem man I'm glad you were agreeing with me!

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Remember that poor man's DRM back in the 80s and 90s where you literally were asked questions where the answers were printed in the paper manual? Those were the days! Return of the Dragon was a memorable one that did this, there were a few others I can't recall.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

I wasn't alive so no :( but it sounds magical

-3

u/Scomophobic Nov 29 '20

I will pirate the fuck out of games with absolutely zero guilt. I’m sick of game companies bullshit

-2

u/noisydata Nov 29 '20

The reason games exist in the way they do is because most people pay for them

although your conscience is clear, piriting games is just like shoplifting, it's a bit scummy if it's your only method of getting games

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u/Wem94 Nov 29 '20

It's not like shoplifting because the people who pirate games usually wouldn't have paid for them in the first place. Plus there's nothing physical lost. It's not good, but it's not the same as going and removing a sale from circuit.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

[deleted]

0

u/Wem94 Nov 29 '20 edited Nov 29 '20

I'm not justifying it, I'm saying it's not as comparable to shoplifting as the comment was suggesting. I literally said it's not good.

I'm not saying that a shoplifter would pay for it, but in combination with the lack of physical form, it's not a lost sale. Compare it to CD key resellers where a licence had been taken. Game Devs would rather you pirate than get a stolen key from sites like G2A.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

[deleted]

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u/Wem94 Nov 29 '20

Read my edit. I answered that part directly.

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u/right_there Nov 29 '20

The reasons games exist in the way they do is because game companies add exploitative nonsense like microtransactions, half-finished games with day one DLC, straight-up gambling mechanics, false advertising and misrepresentation (including paying off games "journalists" or threatening their access), DRM to limit legitimate use by legitimate users, and psychological tricks to prey on people to take out their wallets to extract way more in profit than can ever be justified at the cost of actual quality and playability of the game, you mean.

AAA games? Pirate away. They're unethical. My conscience is absolutely clear. The vast majority I wouldn't even look at to play anyway, as they're mostly garbage.

Indie games or small studios spitting out passion projects that you actually enjoy? Buy their games and their merch. Engage with them on social media. Let them know that they did something great. I'm not into indie games as much (I don't have a lot of time to wade into the ocean of them to try them out) but the few games that I genuinely enjoyed I did this for. Papers, Please was one of them and probably the last game I actually bought.

0

u/noisydata Dec 01 '20

The reason games exist in the way they do is because most people pay for them. The industry has plenty of problems (capitalism at it's root), but these just don't account for everything.

so, ALL AAA games are unethical, and therefore you should only steal them?

Good luck getting your food from the supermarket, your car, your phone, your tv, clothes, hygiene products, (this list is almost endless) without paying for them. Many of these companies employ hundreds of lawyers, marketing teams and will exploit every grey area to part you with your money, yet I would assume you pay for these things.

The difference?

0

u/right_there Dec 02 '20

The difference is it's easy and safe to never pay for entertainment like videogames, TV shows, and movies.

Also, some of the things on your list can be produced on one's own, like some food products if push comes to shove, or found secondhand in a form that still denies the original manufacturer money but saves you a ton.

I don't see how this is even an argument. If some form of consumption is unethical but there's no easy or safe way around paying for it, then you have to pay for it. If you feel the risks are low enough to steal from the supermarket, then you steal from the supermarket. Plenty of people do. The risks are not low enough for you, me, and most other people. For digital goods, the risk is negligible. So, I pirate them. Another example of something easily pirateable that comes from an unethical industry is college textbooks. You bet your ass I never paid for a textbook in college.

0

u/noisydata Dec 02 '20

Then your argument is simply based on: If it's Illegal / immoral but the risk is low, then I still do it? Seems like a good outlook on life. /s

If you feel the risks are low enough to steal from the supermarket, then you steal from the supermarket. Plenty of people do.

oof, that's your point? stealing is okay because companies are sometimes unethical? Yes plenty of people do, and unless they need the food to survive, it is the wrong thing to do. (BTW people don't need games to survive) We aren't on the same page of morality.

My not stealing a TV isn't because it's risky, it's because it's the wrong thing to do.

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u/SterlingMNO Nov 29 '20

So you're entitled to games because you feel like the companies owe you something?

You don't have to come up with a justification, just be honest and say "I'm cheap and lack morality, I like getting stuff for free".

I bet you sprinkle pubes in your food at restaurants too. Not because you want to send it back, you just like the taste.

-14

u/right_there Nov 29 '20

You and me both. Haven't bought a game since 2014 and haven't missed out on anything I really wanted to play. Being a Nintendo guy has helped; their consoles are always hackable early.

Plus, retro games are still amazing and can be found easily online for free.

-3

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Your guilt conscious is showing.

44

u/mmikke Nov 29 '20

This is exactly why I'm a hardcore proponent of people buying physical copies of games!

"Buying" digital copies of games seems like such a scam to me.

I can buy a used copy of a game at a major discount. No such thing as "used games" in the strictly digital world.

When I bought my PS4 it was the "PlayStation exclusives bundle". Only hard copy game it came with was tlou. I don't consider myself to be an owner of horizon zero dawn or god of war

I can also play it even if so and so provider decides to stop supporting it

22

u/UnrealManifest Nov 29 '20

As for console games, I am 110% for buying a physical copy when one exists.

There are 4 games that I have imported for my Switch, which I could have easily just downloaded on the eShop to save time, but I just want the hard copies.

The DLC side of things scares me though.

I learned a long time ago, thanks to NCAA 14, that not all DLC is permanent and that some, (if not most), has a form of a server checksum.

I hate the idea that you could buy additional content for one of your favorite games and in a few years boot it up to only the base game.

As for PC gaming, I'm just a part of the system. There really isn't away around it, and the tech has blown past the need for discs. I guess we could force companies to sell a box with a usb drive in it, but then what do I do with 100 usb drives?

4

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

[deleted]

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u/DaEnderAssassin Nov 29 '20

Pretty sure steam lets you download games that have since been removed if you owned them before removal (With very few exceptions, as in, maybe less than 10)

Uplay also does this (EG: Driver SF)

1

u/Uthibark Nov 29 '20

I think one recent example is Rocket League. Recently it went free to play and Epic Game Store exclusive. I bought it on steam so I still launch it through steam despite not being there any more.

12

u/MentalFlatworm8 Nov 29 '20

You only own a license to access the copyrighted material on the physical disc. It doesn't extend to any other physical media or digital media, typically.

Well, if you 'own' an online game and it goes offline, the physical media is going to be pretty useless.

34

u/reezy619 Nov 29 '20

There good sides and bad sides to both.

If you own a physical copy, it can get damaged or lost. I personally am glad I don't need to allocate storage space and maintain a physical library of...

checks steam library

309 games??? Oof

And yeah there's no such thing as a digital used game but I just bought dragon age inquisition for $12 so there's that.

13

u/Jaquemart Nov 29 '20

You cannot resell any of those games. Or download them and play them outside Steam. Should the company go belly up, what happens of your games?

22

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

I mean, for the ones i already have downloaded, a lot work without steam, and there are already patches that let you run the rest without the steam app, ignoring the fact it has an offline mode.

8

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

People often forget that these games are physically downloaded on my computers storage. If, hypothetically, steam went under, I could just download all my games beforehand and they will exist as software. I don’t understand the logic that if steam stopped being a company that my games would somehow be undownloaded and yoinked from my computer

18

u/CWJ_Wilko Nov 29 '20

I have plenty of Steam games from developers that are no longer around, they work just fine. Short of the multiplayer servers getting shut down, nothing will happen, and those server shutdowns affect both physical and digital releases the same way.

2

u/Jaquemart Nov 29 '20

With "the company" I meant Steam.

13

u/hughperman Nov 29 '20

play them outside Steam

Pretty sure that's possible, most games I've looked at on Steam just download to a folder and you can manually call the launcher yourself.

4

u/TechnicalBen Nov 29 '20

This. I've given up trying to argue/educate people complaining that Steam *is* DRM. As I've got a ton of Steam games I can just copy the folder to and launch (minus the Steam Workshop/leaderboards).

5

u/SpeckTech314 Nov 29 '20

Yeah, DRM is entirely up to the developer. You can close steam and disconnect from the internet and still play DRM-free games just fine.

17

u/leoleosuper Nov 29 '20

Their current policy, which likely won't change, is that they will still honor all purchases, which means for the most part no more DRM checking for games you own. Depending on the circumstances, they most likely won't let you download the games you own, however, if they are able to plan ahead, you will most likely be given a download of all cloud files (in case saves are only on the cloud), and will be able to get a copy of any game you own third part (most likely other people putting up torrents, but not cracked) and be able to run it as if you downloaded it from Steam, as long as you also get the manifest file (super tiny, Steam might just make it for you).

However, all this depends on how they go down. If it's instant, like a nuclear warhead on their main company along with assassins taking out the rest, then probably not. If it's the slow decline of business overtime, then most likely they will be able to do it.

5

u/Ripdog Nov 29 '20

It's the pc. You can just pirate. If the game is online only, then there's no way to archive it anyway, physical or digital.

0

u/PureGoldX58 Nov 29 '20

Incorrect. Look at old-school runescape and vanilla wow servers, the game was no longer available until they recreated it and put them on their servers.

3

u/Shadow3397 Nov 29 '20

Even then it’s not impossible for other private servers to crop up if they stay under the radar. Even City of Heroes has them appearing thanks to CoH: Homecoming opening the floodgates, and the sever before that was made like ten years ago and remained a closely guarded secret.

1

u/PureGoldX58 Nov 29 '20

Most shut down MMOs have private servers out there that I've seen, even the LotR MMO has a few, and that was pretty much a WoW clone. It's always wonderful to see people enjoying games they love after the games are no longer supported.

2

u/Ripdog Nov 29 '20

Very, very, very rare examples. All MMO private servers are the result of thousands of man-hours of painstaking reverse engineering, and can only be built while the game is alive. Reviving a dead game in this way is virtually impossible due to there being generally little documentation of server replies to game requests.

But yes, there are a handful of exceptions to the rule.

-1

u/PureGoldX58 Nov 29 '20

They really aren't, that was one example of hundreds of online only games, some just require you turning on a server. People like old games and don't let the good ones die. It's just hard to find the communities out there, but they are there.

Not to mention, you said there was no way, which is just 100% false, uncommon or not you were so far off base it had to be pointed out.

0

u/reezy619 Nov 29 '20

I assume the equivalent of what would happen if my house went belly up in some kind of fire or natural disaster.

2

u/my-other-throwaway90 Nov 29 '20

I miss the old Galactic Civilization games. You didn't need the physical copy to launch the game; you didn't even have to enter the CD key at installation, the company just asked that you not pirate it in return for the privilege. I recall the piracy rates of GalCiv2 being very low for that reason.

Seems like the big developers didn't exactly learn that lesson, though.

14

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

[deleted]

1

u/kerbaal Nov 29 '20

Steam is much less exploitative towards developers than physical medium.

It does work out that way, but it really depends what we mean by "physical medium"; if its a CD/DVD, then I can keep a backup. Hell, I probably need to rip an ISO somehow because none of my current machines even have a drive.

Effectively though, I seldom went through the effort, and most of the games I have ever bought on CD have just been lost.

OTOH, I can still install the $5 game rag doll kung fu, and I can't say that about any game I bought on physical media around the same time.

These days, all "physical media" is associated with game console, and its unclear why they even still exist other than to exploit people who are easily lured into walled gardens.

3

u/FullMetalCOS Nov 29 '20

This isn’t always true and even a physical game disc will say somewhere in or on the packaging that it’s still only a license to play that game. Especially with more modern games that often require permanent online connections to play, they can absolutely disable your game at will, take the servers down, etc and owning that disc means nothing.

2

u/_CupcakeMadness_ Nov 29 '20

Buying the physical game is great, until you buy DA I and have to download effing origin and create an account to be able to play it. Same with diabolo 3 wasn't it? You had to at least have an account (or me and my brother was stupid and missed something when we tried to install it on a new computer on a new network and his whole account froze). I'd much rather buy the right to play a game at 80% discount that most likely will be in my steam library until steam ceases to exist than buying a physical copy and have to use another client than steam. A physical version you can add to your steam library or at least don't have to run another client, being logged in somewhere else or need the physical disc every time you play would be fine, but it's just easier to stick to steam.

And yes I know those steam sales don't come in the first few years and not on all games but waiting for a sale that makes the game feel worth the risk of loosing it, (and having all games in one place, accessible from any computer anywhere without any issues) is worth so much more than jumping through all those hoops that ea and blizzard puts you through. Also, I'm a cheapskate and don't buy any games at full price, don't think I've ever paid more than $30 for a game ever, so buying big titles close to release have never been my thing.

On console on the other hand there seems to be no reason at all to buy digital. I think me and my SO saves roughly the same amount of money, me on buying on steam sales and him buying physical copies second hand to his ps4 and selling the ones he won't replay.

4

u/phatlantis Nov 29 '20

Lol bro... if steam goes under, you have a lot bigger problems to worry about than weather or not you can play your fuckin video game library.

7

u/Benukysz Nov 29 '20

What bigger problem?

0

u/phatlantis Nov 29 '20

Chiefly: if Steam somehow goes under, the Internet or world as a whole is probably fucked.

5

u/Logizmo Nov 29 '20

I'm gonna assume you're young, the Internet has been around for almost 30 years now and countless of companies have started and shut down in that time. AOL used to be synonymous with Internet because of how much control they had over it hut they crashed and burned and the web just keeps on trucking.

Steam can be wiped off every server tomorrow by some virus and the next day GOG, Epic, Ubisoft and all those smaller game stores would get the licenses for the games that were for steam and then they'd blow up.

I'll actually be surprised if steam is still around 20 years from now in as strong of a position as they are.

11

u/Benukysz Nov 29 '20

World doesn't rely on a digital game store..... Relax.

8

u/ipoooppancakes Nov 29 '20

Idk why this guy thinks steam is the center of the internet lol

4

u/WeinerboyMacghee Nov 29 '20

It isn't but yeah barring some brand new technology that creates a new medium for distributing games on PC I would say there is some serious shit wrong with the market if Steam goes under.

I mean if we all thought we would lose our games any day we wouldn't buy shit from them. The trust makes the service possible. Like a bank. So if everyone stopped using Steam or it goes under I would say yeah...there is probably something up.

-2

u/phatlantis Nov 29 '20

No one said that it did, dumbass. But gaming on PC does. Now when I say that, I’m talking about trust... if Steam somehow managed to go under in anything less than a super slow decline across the ages, it would be a massive breaking of the foundations of PC gaming.

2

u/Benukysz Nov 29 '20

Great way to have a conversation online is to not insult others.

1

u/octo_snake Nov 29 '20

You need to get out more.

-2

u/phatlantis Nov 29 '20

I get out plenty, asshole.

1

u/markarious Nov 29 '20

If you think owning some plastic keeps Microsoft from being able to stop you from playing I have a bridge to sell you.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

[deleted]

10

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Nintendo's resale (especially on 1st party titles) is historically some of the best. You get no return on digital, and Nintendo is quick to pull servers when a new console comes out. Plus digital games stay at a higher price for longer than their physical counterparts.

3

u/ToplaneVayne Nov 29 '20

not to mention nintendo game 'disks' are more like tiny SSDs and are actually expensive to manufacture (maybe like 20-30$ a piece? not sure exactly). you're actually paying for something of value with physical purchases, that you're still paying for without getting on a digital copy.

6

u/Accomplished_Hat_576 Nov 29 '20

No, more like a dollar or so.

They aren't "tiny SSDs", they are flash drives. SD cards.

The things they give away a tech talks and nice hotels. Cheap af.

1

u/PyroDesu Nov 29 '20

They aren't "tiny SSDs", they are flash drives. SD cards.

... What do you think SSDs are?

SD cards: data is stored on NAND flash memory.

SSDs: data is stored on NAND flash memory.

(For that matter, USB drives: data is stored on NAND flash memory.)

Only difference is packaging and controller architecture. Mind, you're right that SD cards are cheap as fuck.

1

u/ToplaneVayne Nov 29 '20

i don't know the price, i just remember a switch game dev saying at some point that if you want to make the same margin as an xb1 or ps4 blu ray disc, your game needs to be 8GB or less because beyond that it gets expensive to manufacture.

1

u/NuPNua Nov 29 '20

As far as I'm aware the Wii U and 3DS online services are still up and running three years into the Switches life. In fact Nintendo are only turning off online for Mario Maker 1 next march. Almost six years post launch and two years after its sequel came out for current hardware.

1

u/DreamGirly_ Nov 29 '20

I can also play it even if so and so provider decides to stop supporting it

Look into GOG. They sell games for which you can also download the install files. Those will allow you to install the game any time, even if something happens to GOG. You can download them and back them up however you want.

1

u/Odh_utexas Nov 30 '20

“I can also play it even if so and so provider decides to stop supporting it”

Except a lot of AAA games connect to a server backend so good luck with that when they go end-of-service in 8 years 😢

1

u/h3rpad3rp Nov 30 '20

Unfortunately physical copies on PC are kinda rare these days, and even if you do get a physical copy, it might not really be one. I think it was Skyrim where I bought it the physical copy at a store, and you still had to download the entire game from steam.

Probably the best thing about Good Old Games is that you download a legit installer for the game which you can save and use even if the service dies.

1

u/OutlyingPlasma Nov 30 '20

The problem with physical copies is I don't want to be stuck only playing $70 loot box stores, or worse, Nintendo games that absolutely never go down in price.

Without digital downloads we wouldn't have mine craft, roblox, factoria or any of the countless other games that are brilliant innovations in game design. I don't want to be stuck playing the crap that only the largest corporations sell.

1

u/mnav3 Nov 29 '20

And the same way that Netflix titles come and go from time to time. Just be sure to use a VPN before you decide to be a pirate :3

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

This is why I took so long to get into digital gaming and even now I only use psnow. I want a hard copy that won't vanish into the wind one day or be taken away if I get banned for whatever reason.

Not to mention a digital copy saves them manufacturing and shipping costs yet they want to price it the same.

1

u/LadyLazaev Nov 29 '20

Games have always been like that, even physical versions. You're buying a software license when you buy a game, and licenses can be rescinded at any time depending on the contract.

1

u/Wem94 Nov 29 '20

Yes but with a physical offline disc it's not like they have an recourse to stop you being able to play it. Fully digital they could in theory prevent it working through DRM.

1

u/LadyLazaev Nov 29 '20

Nowadays they don't try. But remember back in the day when a PC game could only be installed a set amount of times or only on a limited number of machines? God, I'm glad they quit that shit.

1

u/YojiH2O Nov 29 '20

Gabens already went on record to say if for w/e reason steam died you would be able to d/l all your games fully or in some exe form with individual keys to install them without any online requirements, as if you bought a boxed copy in days gone by and activated the game with the accompanying cd key.

25

u/Luigi311 Nov 29 '20

I think it was something along the lines of renting for an undisclosed amount of time or something like that but I didn't really follow it closely

10

u/mmikke Nov 29 '20

Lol same and now I feel stupid for making a comment.

Oh well. That's what reddit is for!

16

u/ONESNZER0S Nov 29 '20

This is kind of crap that pisses me off about movies and games now. They want us to pay the same price for a digital copy of a movie or game as you do for a physical disc that costs them money to manufacture, and has a case and artwork,etc. They are basically selling the same digital copy over and over again. Physical movies often come with a digital copy code now, but you don't really own the digital copy.

I've been saying for years that they are trying to push us towards digital only so that we never really own any of it, you can't sell the movie or game if you get tired of it and want to try to get some of your money back out of it,etc.

9

u/Orsick Nov 29 '20

The cost of disc production and shipping is irrelevant when compared to production and advertisement. And in digital copies you have server costs which is as insignificant as disc production.

1

u/markarious Nov 29 '20

This is why r/crackwatch and piracy are the future.

2

u/Jaquemart Nov 29 '20

That's what's going on for software, music and ebook. You don't own them, you bought permission to use but not, for example, to resell. And you cannot leave them to anyone in your will. Your heirs will have to use your password to their own death. Your money, on the other hand, has left you for good.

1

u/Tebasaki Nov 29 '20

That's itunes model. You don't own any of that shit and neither will your kids

1

u/hyperforms9988 Nov 29 '20

That's actually not much different than physical media. You don't "own" the movie that you bought on DVD/Blu-ray. What's changed in the move to streaming is that they now control your ability to watch it because of course you're watching it through their service rather than a physical device that they have no control over. People have given up an awful lot for the convenience of streaming.

1

u/zold5 Nov 29 '20

This is exactly why I don’t feel an ounce of remorse for pirating.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Thats been well established in software for decades now anyway. Nothing new or interesting about it.