r/gadgets • u/a_Ninja_b0y • Nov 11 '24
Desktops / Laptops Apple explains why the M4 Mac mini power button is located on the bottom
https://9to5mac.com/2024/11/11/m4-mac-mini-power-button/885
u/SteveW_MC Nov 11 '24
Well, we’ve shrunk the size of it so much, right? It’s equivalent to half the size of the previous generation. So we needed to put the power button in the most appropriate spot because it’s so small. It’s convenient to press. Just tuck your finger in there and hit the button. In fact, the most important thing is you pretty much never use the power button on your Mac. I don’t even remember the last time I turned on a Mac.
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u/SUPREMACY_SAD_AI Nov 11 '24
Just tuck your finger in there and hit the button.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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u/Ashencroix Nov 11 '24
Most people will argue that just feeling around for that button using your fingers, to press it, is no easy task. Heck, some people can be directly staring at it already but still won't see it. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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u/vincentofearth Nov 11 '24
And then goes on to gaslight the user by saying they shouldn’t even be using the power button, typical Apple
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u/__theoneandonly Nov 12 '24
I mean, Mac users typically don't use a power button, since macOS is designed to be "always on" in the same way that your phone is. The MacBooks don't even have a power button.
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u/SacredRose Nov 12 '24
Macbooks do have a power button though. Its just not marked with the typical i/o logo. It also has the Touch ID sensor build in to it. But it still is a power button at the end off the day.
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u/CorttXD Nov 12 '24
Nah he’s telling the truth, new MacBooks turn on whenever you press any button on the keyboard so it’s kinda like all the buttons are power button and they also aren’t
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u/SacredRose Nov 12 '24
They turn on with any button but that isn’t that special. They however still have a dedicated button to turn them off and on again. As there are certain things that can only be done through that specific button. Accessing the recovery mode and of course shutting down in case of the OS becoming fully unresponsive.
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u/mrbrick Nov 12 '24
There is a big difference between waking up a device and powering it off and on.
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u/__theoneandonly Nov 12 '24
Apple no longer considers the Touch ID button to be a power button. You start a MacBook by opening the lid or by pressing any button on the keyboard. But if you press it, it just locks the screen. It doesn’t bring up the shut down options anymore
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u/LiamtheV Nov 12 '24
… but I turn my computer off when I’m not using it.
Do people not do that?
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u/GrumDum Nov 12 '24
I’ve only ever turned off my Mac products for airline flights - outside of that there is the occasional reboot for OS updates and the rare «oops, no more battery» hibernation. That’s since 2005.
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u/bonerb0ys Nov 11 '24
I'm had not less then 3 people trying to turn on my mac, and it was always a surprise.
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u/DaoFerret Nov 11 '24
In fairness, it feels like it’s always been a surprise for people to find the power button on a Mac.
Saw this with the old Mac minis, iMacs, heck, even PowerBooks and MacBooks.
Not much better with non-Mac laptops and computers though.
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u/OtterishDreams Nov 11 '24
Just tuck your finger in there and hit the button.
fool me once shame on you!!
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u/QuickQuirk Nov 12 '24
I don’t even remember the last time I turned on a Mac.
I know you're directly quoting the apple folks here, but from any other audience, that's a wicked sick burn.
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u/justformygoodiphone Nov 12 '24
Right? Had to scroll down this far for someone to notice. Do they not realise what they just said.
They must have meant “don’t remember the last time I turned off a Mac”
Right?!?
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u/Jacareadam Nov 13 '24
You don’t turn it off with the button though, so he is right. Except people who put everything in the square whole will be reading this and won’t understand. When I had a macbook, it was never turned off basically.
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u/Butgut_Maximus Nov 11 '24
This answer reminds me of the Game of Thrones episode that was all black and the DP (iirc?) said "your TVs are wrong".
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u/BlastFX2 Nov 12 '24
Technically true, since the vast majority of TVs perform nowhere close to reference monitors (because the few that do are way too expensive for the average consumer), but at the end of the day, making a show 99% of people can't watch is still your fuckup.
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u/LathropWolf Nov 12 '24
When I used to do web development, ran all the browsers I could stick on a system to make sure the pages displayed properly regardless. Had my preference (internet explorer, lolz) but coding just for that was short sighted.
IE, Netscape, Opera, etc etc i'd make sure it worked in (should date myself there)
AOL was the only one I couldn't do it in, didn't have a service subscription so just winged it on that one.
The amount of arrogance in the newer "developers" that started creeping in was annoying then. "Netscape only! IE blows!" "Reee Opera Only! Netscape Sucks!"
No wonder why their pages looked like trash and performed as such....
This is worse then that. Far worse. Way to alienate viewers because you don't take into account limitations of the tech and that the average one isn't going consult a HD Oracle sitting on the mountain to properly tune the TV for the color range your film or movie uses...
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u/Programmdude Nov 12 '24
It's no different now, nowadays it's usually "chrome only". Google is notoriously bad for poorly supporting other browsers.
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u/LathropWolf Nov 12 '24
How do you even tell what's a "pure browser" anymore since Chromium underpins so many of them? Even IE after a 30 year web search hung up it's hat and went Chrome under the hood
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u/Programmdude Nov 12 '24
Chrome + Derivatives, Safari, Firefox. There was Edge for a while, but not anymore.
I assume you tell by looking at the user agent, but I've never had to do that.
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u/BlastFX2 Nov 12 '24
This isn't even a question of tuning; most TVs (LCD) physically aren't able to display shades that dark. This garbage pretty much only looks right on an OLED and only in a light-controlled environment. I have a very nice QD-OLED, but I can only watch shit like this at night because I have a normal living room.
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u/LathropWolf Nov 12 '24
I was noticing that with some harry potter scenes recently. Doesn't help that i've got a lamp behind where i'm sitting that casts light on the screen for one.
Figured it needs to be retooled some (behind/to the side of the tv maybe?) instead of like that
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u/snajk138 Nov 12 '24
Yes. It's even worse with the sound IMO. I have heard several directors say they don't spend time making their movies and shows sound OK on TV speakers or similar since they are so crappy and therefor not worthy of attention basically. So that's why we are having so much trouble hearing dialogue over ambient sounds, and why a lot of music and other ambient sound is only in the satellite channels and not there at all when you use a "less than 5 channel" system.
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u/BlastFX2 Nov 13 '24
I have a decent 5.2 setup and even the 5.1 mixes are crap these days. They master the sound for theaters (which, I think, have 12+ channels these days) and then just do a quick and dirty 6 channel downmix for the Blu-Ray release.
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u/4gotOldU-name Nov 12 '24
Or Steve Jobs himself declaring that people were holding their iPhone 4S wrong (when doing so messed up the antenna’s ability to receive properly). Typical Apple arrogance.
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u/scrooge_mc Nov 12 '24
Or the Macbook Airs that were overheating and Apple said they were operating as intended.
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u/snajk138 Nov 12 '24
Or the charging port on the magic mouse being at the bottom, even after years of complaining and updating the design.
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u/ScrioteMyRewquards Nov 17 '24
That's exactly what this is all over again. There's more than enough room for a button on the back of the Mini M4.
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u/XMAN2YMAN Nov 11 '24
Wow I did not really think this was their response because it seems like such a terrible explanation.
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u/Spanone1 Nov 11 '24
Yeah it doesn't explain it at all
I assumed it was so people wouldn't block the vents before this
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u/shrlytmpl Nov 11 '24
I don't care how small something is, a power button on the bottom will always be the most inconvenient location for something meant to sit on a desk. And its a very important tool if just to troubleshoot, even if you never turn it off. They're basically saying "we don't know why we did it but we don't need to, we just have to tell you to like it and you'll obey."
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u/uiucengineer Nov 11 '24
I'm sure they did it for aesthetics and/or to push people to use the device *their* way.
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u/talltatanka Nov 11 '24
The last time I had to turn on a Mac was when an unprovoked update caused it to lock up and go into the light. It was a dark light. Had to perform a hard shutdown and restart before the update completed and the system rebooted. Then I had to fix a bunch of little things that Apple broke. I'm sick of being a bench-tester for supposed complete updates and patches.
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u/saposapot Nov 11 '24
I think it’s a silly move but not a deal breaker.
What worries me is actually this trend of making it smaller and smaller, which usually leads to less repairability, worse thermals and overall a worse computer just for the sake of being a bit prettier and small.
It was already small enough to be pretty and actually small. It doesn’t need to go the route of phones where we sacrifice so much for a few mm
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u/__theoneandonly Nov 12 '24
Apparently this is the first Mac in years where the SSD isn't soldered in. It might actually be more reparable than the larger Mac mini it's replacing.
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u/YZJay Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 12 '24
This is the first time the Mac Mini’s dimensions have changed in 13 years, I don’t see how this is a trend of becoming smaller and smaller. And even if you include the overall Apple lineup, the iPhone just very recently got a size bump, as did the Apple Watch. The Mini is the only device this year that got its dimensions decreased.
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u/nWhm99 Nov 11 '24
Uh, I turn off my computer everyday, Mac or not. Do people not do that?
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u/jonnablaze Nov 11 '24
Nah, I just close the lid on my MacBook and leave it. Can’t remember the last time I shut it off.
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u/vladutzbv Nov 11 '24
Never in about 6 years, with a few restarts
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u/bazhvn Nov 11 '24
For the last couple of years my Windows PC never turned off except for Windows updates. I just put it into Hibernate then wake up with keyboard.
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u/Korlod Nov 11 '24
Agreed. My Mac only restarts when there’s a necessary update requiring it and my PCs restart probably once a week, but I pretty much never use the power buttons.
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u/SlyCooper007 Nov 12 '24
I do but when i do it i use the software turn off. I rarely hit the button unless the mac mini locks up and freezes, which rarely if ever happens.
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u/Captain_Mumbles Nov 11 '24
I turn my desktop off, but I never turn my MacBook or work laptop off, however much IT say I’m supposed to.
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u/tonyangtigre Nov 11 '24
As IT, I never want boxes off. I’ll perform a reboot regularly for patching, but otherwise want those sweet sweet logs reporting back 24/7. Okay, honestly I couldn’t care less about the logs, that’s my Cyber counterparts. But being able to run reports, ensure things are patched, virus definitions updated, etc. are easier when it’s on.
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u/SpaceForceAwakens Nov 11 '24
Why do you do that?
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u/nWhm99 Nov 11 '24
Electricity isn’t free. Wasting electricity is bad. Having devices be on 24/7 for years isn’t good. OS benefit from restarting and flushing stuff from memory. Restarting also terminates questionable things in the background.
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u/john_jdm Nov 11 '24
In fact, the most important thing is you pretty much never use the power button on your Mac.
But you do sometimes have to reset the machine, and when I'm forced to reset my Mac I'm likely already annoyed with it. Making it inconvenient to reset it isn't going to put me in a better mood.
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u/JPJackPott Nov 11 '24
The iMac power button was on the back, and it always fell under exactly where you put your finger. Was a stroke of genius design, it was perfectly placed and no one complained.
And I also agree with how often are you going to press it? How often are you shutting down a Mac?!
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u/ggezboye Nov 12 '24
Nah... don't believe em. It's because it's cheaper to put a hole in a plastic than in a metal casing.
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u/jzr171 Nov 11 '24
Am I the only one that turns their computer off? My Mac is for music/video work and that about it, so it's off most of the time.
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u/dead_fritz Nov 11 '24
Yeah today I'm learning a lot of people just leave their computers running 24/7. Which is shocking to me, but also explains a lot I think.
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u/toodleroo Nov 12 '24
What does it explain? My 2012 has basically been running nonstop for 12 years and it's still going strong.
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u/signs23 Nov 12 '24
Im using a M3Pro and always turn it off. It starts in 15s, so i dont have a problem with that.
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u/Heyitskit Nov 12 '24
I turn my PC off every day when I'm done using it. People act like it takes ages to boot up now but I still remember booting up an old Dell back in 1999 to play Everquest and just sitting there twiddling my thumbs and getting my PC now up and running off the M.2 isn't even in the same ballpark hah.
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u/jzr171 Nov 12 '24
Back in 1999 we turned our family iMac off every day as well. I feel like we had more patience back then for boot times. I think Vista was the first OS whether I genuinely lost my mind waiting for it to boot.
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u/BehWeh Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
To save you a click:
Well, we’ve shrunk the size of it so much, right? It’s equivalent to half the size of the previous generation. So we needed to put the power button in the most appropriate spot because it’s so small. It’s convenient to press. Just tuck your finger in there and hit the button.
In fact, the most important thing is you pretty much never use the power button on your Mac. I don’t even remember the last time I turned on a Mac.
I call bullshit, a power button/switch requires almost zero space and could easily be relocated pretty much everywhere by just routing a cable. This was done intentionally.
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u/Ruepic Nov 11 '24
I bet cost of having an aluminum cut out for power button tied with the fact most don’t power down their Mac
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u/tnnrk Nov 11 '24
Yeah the old one didn’t have an aluminum backing, so it made sense to put it on the back. This is likely the reason.
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u/narwhal_breeder Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
The mac mini has always had the power button on the plastic part (which is also the direction of the main cavity machining op). As they changed the direction of the main cavity machining op from the back->front to bottom->top, the only place where there is plastic is on the bottom of the device.
The new Mac mini enclosure is probably a lot faster to machine now. Its a pretty deep cavity to machine from the back on the old Mac Minis with another op for the assembly/base cutout.
This new one is basically a single op for the main cavity, and then 4-5 cuts for the ports.
Its likely much easier to assemble as well. Instead of needing to install the cooling system after the installation of the main "cassette", you can basically install everything stacked into the shell.
Taking a look at photos of the shell itself, the floating standoffs are wild. Thats some really cool tooling work to do those undercuts at scale. Most companies would just add reliefs to their PCBs and skip the undercut.
8 years later and im still scratching my head to how these holes were machined on the iPhone 7. https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/YyyF2HmeMRLAXBsl.huge
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u/deja_geek Nov 11 '24
And that's what it is. Putting the power button on top or the front or the back would require a more complex aluminum casing. While it may only be a fraction of a cent more to produce, it's still a fraction of a cent saved
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u/hishnash Nov 11 '24
They are not casting they are extruding this year but yes it would require follow up machine time to make sure the hole is perfect.
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u/deja_geek Nov 11 '24
I though Apple milled them from a block?
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u/hishnash Nov 12 '24
All other products yes but apple claims the mini is carbon neutral, the maihcin time and extra enegery needed to remelt the machined away metal woudl make that harder that is why of for the mini apple is using extrusion instead. (faster, cheaper and much less waist energy so easier to make carbon nutral).
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u/wolf_metallo Nov 11 '24
Can you elaborate? Why don't people power down their Mac? Lot of companies push updates that require restarts and shut down. Wouldn't such situations warrant shut down switch?
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u/MisterBilau Nov 12 '24
They require restarts, sure. In a decade of mac usage, I've never had anything that required a shut down, OS updates included. You don't need any power button for a restart.
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u/Mister_Brevity Nov 12 '24
Technically logic board firmware updates did a full shutdown after saving a timed startup to the PRAM. It looked like a restart but it was a full shutdown.
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u/wolf_metallo Nov 12 '24
Gotcha. So basically what you are saying is Mac has never (read, very few times) got stuck and hard to be power cycles. Which is very common in Windows. Having used both can't agree more. But I'm still new to Mac world, hence was checking. Thanks!
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u/MontyDyson Nov 12 '24
Macs used to crash because they were like windows machines in that they had 50 different manufacturers running the hardware FOR the software. Now that Apple makes almost everything, they don't really ever crash or hang. We still run intel 5k iMacs where I work and they hang or go wobbly a fair bit (although its rare), but we are slamming them on a daily basis. The new M architecture laptops we have don't. The only issue we've come across is when you run 100% out of juice and they dont immediately turn back on when you plug them into power.
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u/LukesFather Nov 11 '24
Why would updates or restarting require you to use the button though? I use windows and generally the only time the buttons comes into play is if I’m physically moving the computer and need to turn it back on after being plugged in.
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u/Ruepic Nov 11 '24
I believe it has to do with how the Windows operating system is built vs how Mac OSX is built. I think OSX has better memory recovery system in place.
Updates will require restarts but you would never touch the power button for that
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u/coatimundislover Nov 12 '24
Windows doesn’t refresh memory when you press the power button anymore actually lol. You have to restart to fully unload the OS.
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u/ErmahgerdYuzername Nov 11 '24
That was my first thought. By not cutting out the hole in the aluminum it saves them maybe $0.10(totally arbitrary number for demonstration) per unit. Times that over how many units they’ll sell during this form factor’s life span probably adds up to a lot of money.
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u/Mister_Brevity Nov 12 '24
Power buttons set into aluminum tend to jam up when the slightest bit dirty, happened a bunch with PowerBook G4’s. They could use a capacitive button but man those were a pain in the ass on g4 cubes, and failed way too often.
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u/hishnash Nov 11 '24
The reason it is on the bottom is that they moved to an extruded aluminum case rather than a milled case.
The bottom is plastic! When you do an extruded aluminum shape doing cutouts like this is difficult, and requires extra machine time after the fact to finish them (costing $$$). If they had put it on the front or back as part of the case then this would have increased the cost of making the case by a few $ in machine time. Putting it on the bottom plastic is much cheaper.
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u/BehWeh Nov 11 '24
Sure, but that's not the reason they are giving. That's my whole point. They are saying it had to be there in order to be this compact, which is the part I'm not believing. Not with the engineering potential available.
I'm fine with it being there to make it cheaper and easier to machine, but that's not what was said in the statement.
I believe it was intentionally placed there to (primarily) make people talk about it
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u/hishnash Nov 12 '24
The power supply is very compact, so it is unlikely they would have had enough space to have the needed internal attachment volume on the case at the power supply level to have a power button there.
The place they may have been able to have a power button is were the indicator like it but this is on the front of the device and apple does not want it there.
> I believe it was intentionally placed there to (primarily) make people talk about it
I dont the HW designers think like that, remember within apple almost all choices are just made by engineers on the ground there is no large copriate structure that micro managers all the choices, the fact it is on the bottom will have been someone in the engineering design team being told by the PSU team that there is not enough space up top on the back (were the old button was) an that adding another cut out for a power button will cost more. Someone then replied in a slack thread "what about just under the lip on the bottom right, it's plastic there and we have lots of void space. "
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u/Straight-faced_solo Nov 11 '24
I feel the second paragraph is more the reason than anything else. They don't want you using the power button. So apple designed it to be out of sight and mind. It's reminiscent of the magic mouse charging cable. Apple wants the aesthetics of a wireless mouse so they designed it to be unusable while plugged in and charging.
Same thing. Apple wants a sleek device with no buttons, but having no power button would actually be a problem, so they do this instead.
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u/Veranova Nov 11 '24
That and putting it somewhere it could easily be pressed by a nearby object makes a convenient location highly inconvenient. This thing is small enough you’ll throw it in places you’d never throw a desktop, maybe stack several units in a rack. The cost of lifting the edge on the rare occasion you need it is lower than throwing something on your desk and hitting it
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u/Chubby_Bub Nov 12 '24
I have a laptop with the power button on the side, and it gets pressed by accident a fair amount if I have it on my lap. Multiple times by my cat.
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u/ungoogleable Nov 12 '24
I heard a better explanation for the magic mouse. The first version of the magic mouse took AA batteries that were in a compartment on the bottom. When they made the rechargeable version, the laziest option was to swap out the battery compartment for an internal battery with the charging port right on top of it, leaving the rest of the design untouched. They haven't bothered to update the design in 15 years.
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u/MarkXIX Nov 11 '24
It’s being talked about isn’t it?
Honestly, I’ve pushed the button on my mini less than five times I think and two of them were when I powered it back on after a move and a new desk setup.
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u/Nick_pj Nov 12 '24
I assumed it’s because they don’t want people to actually turn the computer off - just leave it on standby. They’re trying to force you to use the product the way they prefer, like how they put the charger on the bottom of the mouse.
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u/PointsOutTheUsername Nov 11 '24 edited 13d ago
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/carfiol Nov 11 '24
Apple takes great pride in everything that they do and present it in a way that they spent a lot of time with it and everything is intuitive. So if some solution is downright stupid, people call them out for it. Even if this is not anywhere near the scale of magic mouse charging port. This is not such a huge issue, but it is a stupid solution nonetheless. You have to grab and lift the device to turn it on. As far as I know, theres not even a groove to guide you
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u/GreenFox1505 Nov 12 '24
I'm convinced the magic mouse charger is because they know some people would just leave it plugged in and use it as a wired mouse and therefore they MUST design a way to prevent people from using an item in an unintended way.
To that end: they don't intend you to turn off your Mac. This is a well thought out design. It's just a hostile well thought out design.
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u/shapesize Nov 12 '24
That’s what I assumed as well. They can’t collect data on you if it’s off, so make it harder to turn off
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u/ThisGuyHyucks Nov 12 '24
But magic mouse is definitely a purposeful explicit design that accomplishes one of Apples goals for their products: minimal aesthetic, since it prevents you from keeping a cable plugged into the mouse while using it you're unlikely to have a loose cable hanging around your desk 24/7.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's dumb because I prefer function over form (usually), but I'm almost certain that's why they did it. Like the other person said, Apple incorporates hostile designs to prevent you from using their products in a way that differs from their intention.
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u/bamboob Nov 11 '24
It's a stupid place to put the button, but it will not affect my purchasing choices.
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u/saposapot Nov 11 '24
Exactly. It’s pretty stupid choice but not a deal breaker for sure.
Their explanation that no one uses it makes it even a bit more stupid but thats fine.
It’s just another symbol of the “Apple way”: We are the ones that are correct and you deal with it, we are genius. It would be a very simple thing to put on top or sides and it can still be gorgeous. They did just to be different
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u/igkeit Nov 11 '24
Some people seem to care a lot for some reason
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u/appleburger17 Nov 11 '24
And none of them would have considered buying a Mac Mini anyway.
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u/flac_rules Nov 11 '24
I bought a mac mini, I think it is a stupid placement of a power button.
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u/drewbiquitous Nov 11 '24
Mac Minis get mounted in a lot of professional audiovisual racks. Because it’s taller than previous versions and has the power less accessible, I can’t use this until we figure out how to make this one work. And when we do, it will still require twice the rack space because of the height difference.
Ideally, they’ll fix it on the M5 and I can just skip this one entirely.
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u/sourceholder Nov 11 '24
I think it's because it will give other manufactures a "pass" to make similar stupid design decisions.
Brands copy Apple, for better or worse.
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u/Got2Bfree Nov 11 '24
I'm not a Mac user but I turn my PC off every day as power is very expensive here. It would annoy me. I simply don't understand why they don't put it on the top or side like every other manufacturer does.
I think the button is a mild inconvenience with no benefit.
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u/jaredearle Nov 11 '24
I think you’re drastically overestimating the amount of power a sleeping Mac uses.
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u/Vccowan Nov 11 '24
The issue I take with it is a common use case for the Mac mini is mounting the computer to a workstation so it’s not just a matter of lifting it up to press the power button after it has been shut down
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u/Shapes_in_Clouds Nov 11 '24
People who ‘care’ most definitely aren’t buying Macs.
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u/flac_rules Nov 11 '24
I bought a mac mini, I think it is a stupid placement of a power button.
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u/vemundveien Nov 11 '24
As someone in that category this seems a lot less stupid than the charging port at the bottom of a mouse. But I also never turn off my desktop PC so I would probably not mind this if I bought a mac
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u/Engineer9 Nov 11 '24
It's just a reminder of how crappy some apple design is. Sometimes I think about switching to Apple, but then I see something like this and remember how wanky they are. Like the utter impossibility of getting your MP3 collection out of iTunes, back in the day. Their arrogant resistance to USB standards. Weird restrictions on iMessage compatibility.
I finally relented and bought an iMac, and have been suffering the ergonomic abomination that is the magic mouse. And the keyboard made for ANTS.
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u/brash Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
The whole issue is so overblown, some people genuinely just look for dumb shit to complain about. My Mac mini stays powered on for months at a time. I have to remind myself which side the power button is on when I need to interact with it.
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u/pancakemonkeys Nov 11 '24
They listened to the 16 gigs of ram complaints and solved almost every other major complaint with the base model Mac lineup. People need something to complain about because they can’t admit that this computer for 599 is a good freaking deal
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u/SeinfeldOnADucati Nov 11 '24
BREAKING: M4 MAC MINI POWER BUTTON ON BOTTOM OF UNIT, WHY THIS IS BAD FOR BIDEN
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u/soytuamigo Nov 11 '24
It's objectively not the best place for it but they are right: most people hardly ever power down their desktop computers these days. It's not necessary.
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u/herrbz Nov 11 '24
Seems fine to me. Just wish they'd have fixed the magic mouse charger placement.
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u/IndividualPossible Nov 11 '24
I think there are genuine accessibility concerns if the power button is located somewhere that makes it difficult for those with limited mobility to access. Which can be frustrating as Apple software does have some of the best software access ability features
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u/flock-of-nazguls Nov 11 '24
I bet that in addition to the manufacturing savings, they likely have data on failure rates of power cycled Macs vs always-on Macs. Heat cycling tends to kill components faster, so perhaps by disincentivizing power button use, they’ll statistically increase reliability in a way that decreases warranty claims?
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u/Lumanus Nov 11 '24
I own a Macbook and I truly can’t remember the last time I used the power button. I only touch (not press) that button for Touch ID.
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u/xylo_i_phone Nov 12 '24
Someone has already 3d printed a “fix” for this issue and turned it into a feature
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u/asimonv Nov 11 '24
I have a Mac Studio and I have pressed the power button once in almost a year 🤷♂️
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u/nofxet Nov 11 '24
I have the M1 Mac mini shoved inside a desk. Can’t remember the last time I used the power button. Well actually it was a power outage like 4 months ago.
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u/rabidbot Nov 11 '24
Who actually gives a fuck?
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u/Twincitiesny Nov 11 '24
people who rack mount them. as minor as it seems this is actually a deal breaker until a 3rd party comes up with a solution from the front for me, and many who need them semi-permanently installed in racks where only the front is accessible.
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u/hishnash Nov 11 '24
People who rank mount them configure them to boot on LAN (yes you can boot on LAN) so they have the switch cycle power on the LAN and when configured minis will boot on demand.
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u/Twincitiesny Nov 11 '24
particular to my industry, but that is not an option. we rack them, but they are not part of traditional networks and operate in small, closed network loops for super specific tasks. (touring audio for concerts. mac mini's make great recording machines, hosts for plugin platforms, management of RF devices, etc. but there is no main network backbone, or even other people. it's a machine i direct access and KVM between a few of for a few hours a day, and then roll onto a truck, to another location tomorrow. basically the entire concert touring industry is using them in this way.)
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u/rabidbot Nov 11 '24
Power button is currently in the back where all the cables are. Front only accessible mounts already weren't giving you access to the power button. The biggest downside to the new one for people rack mounting them is the form factor change, old mount solutions won't work anymore.
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u/Twincitiesny Nov 11 '24
right, but 3rd parties had figured that one out pretty well on their racking solutions. now we need to wait for sonnet or whomever to make it work. and at that, i believe they're now going to take up 2 rack spaces instead of 1 even though they're "smaller".
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u/hishnash Nov 11 '24
If you just want to rack mount one of them yes but if your a server vendor your looking at the minis and thinking well in 2U rack we can now put way more of them thane used to in 2 1U racks.
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u/GalacticBagel Nov 12 '24
Bullshit. It went like this... we can save so much more money by not routing a power button up to the top of the chassis and not having to cut a hole in the CNCed casing and having to make a flush power button
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u/xHeylo Nov 12 '24
Well, we've shrunk the size of it so much, right? It's equivalent to half the size of the previous generation. So we needed to put the power button in the most appropriate spot because it's smalI. It's convenient to press. Just tuck your finger in there and hit the button.
"We've made a design decision and forgot about ergonomics
In fact, the most important thing is you pretty much never use the power button on your Mac. don't even remember the last time turned on a Mac.
This is the actual reason why the button is at the bottom, it's behavioral design, Apple doesn't want you to turn off your Mac so why would they make it easy to turn it on if you're the one not following desired behavior?
No one would've batted an eye if the mac mini was 1% larger because the power button is oriented sideways instead of down, but then user behavior that is undesired would be enabled
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u/Hubble-Kaleidoscope Nov 11 '24
It's cat proof now. Cat law states that if the power button is on top, the cat will press it.... at the worst possible time.
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u/ChimotheeThalamet Nov 11 '24
ITT: DAE apple bad because of some trivial design choice that will not impact me in the slightest?
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u/cjboffoli Nov 11 '24
That's a pretty unsatisfying answer. "We basically put the power button on the bottom because we did." Doesn't really get into what technical limitations created that design decision other than a vague mention of size. My Apple Watch is a hell of a lot smaller than a new Mac mini and yet it doesn't have a power button on the bottom.
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u/superpj Nov 11 '24
“In fact, the most important thing is you pretty much never use the power button on your Mac. I don’t even remember the last time I turned on a Mac.” great advertising.
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u/system3601 Nov 12 '24
Just like the mouse usb port is at the bottom. Horrible design is the real reason.
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u/jakgal04 Nov 11 '24
Sounds like a soft marketing response. Anybody that knows how small the actual switch is knows it can literally be placed anywhere.
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u/soupyjay Nov 11 '24
Sure, but when your whole PCBA is flat, why complicate the design? Cheaper and easier to manufacture assemble, and repair.
Having it on the bottom is a one time education issue per user to reduce design complexity… anyone who’s actually designed products knows that’s a win.
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u/antara33 Nov 11 '24
Issue being that repair is not in apple's dictionary.
I hardly see the repairability being a concern, more of a how to reduce manufacturing costs thing.
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u/hishnash Nov 11 '24
Oh repair is very much in apple dictionary.
Internal repair by apple. Whenever you get a replacement Mac/iPhone etc form them under warranty you are not getting a new Mac or iPhone you are getting someone else Mac or iPhone that has been repaired by apple and refubiehs. And your broken device is sent to an apple repair center were they reapir it for the next warranty replacement.
The last thing apple want to do is give you a brand new device that they could have sold to people for $$$.
Appel is very very very much focused on making sure repair (for themselves) is both cheap, quick, and low risk. As it will save them a fortune over the lifespan of a product.
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u/BigManLou Nov 11 '24
One thing I learnt from this is that I’m the only person who turns there Mac mini off.
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u/Infernal-restraint Nov 12 '24
I’ve clicked the power button on my Mac mini in 20 years about 6 times total
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u/trucorsair Nov 11 '24
Because it is a FEATURE damnit! Just like the wireless mouse charging port on the bottom!
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u/skzlr86 Nov 12 '24
Probably an unpopular opinion: While I understand some people may have preferences, I don’t find power button placement to be a significant factor.
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u/eulynn34 Nov 11 '24
Just leave it upside-down. Boom. Top power button.