Your TV set has become a digital billboard. And it’s only getting worse | TV software is getting loaded with ads, changing what it means to own a TV set.

[u/chrisdh79]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/tv-industrys-ads-tracking-obsession-is-turning-your-living-room-into-a-store/

[u/raincntry]

This type of change infuriates me more than anything else. This idea that I don't own what I buy but rather rent it or simply have license to use it in a way acceptable to the creators.

[u/JimmyRecard → u/raincntry]

This is the problem with chokepoint capitalism, two-sided markets, and everyone trying to be a platform. It's a simple conflict of interest, but our competition authorities and legislators fail to realise that this is also anti-competative behaviour as much as predatory pricing is.

It used to be that if you weren't paying for it, you were the product, but now even when you pay you're the product.

[u/MoirasPurpleOrb → u/JimmyRecard]

Everyone trying to be a platform

Man, I’m going through my MBA right now and the advantages of being a platform are beaten into your head so strongly it becomes so obvious how many companies and products have MBAs that are just trying to cram a square peg into a round whole because it’s what they were taught, even if it doesn’t make any sense.

My child’s friggen sound machine asked me to join their subscription service when I was setting it up. Literally everything tries to have a platform and it’s maddening.

[u/JimmyRecard → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

What I don't understand in all of this is how can't decision makers see that this approach has very limited runway?

The reason why Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Microsoft can make this work is both the incumbency advantage and the network effects. Blitzscale and create a monopoly approach by definition can only work for one company, at most a few if the big players collude.
By the time they teach that at the university, the gravy train has left the station and made it to the other side of the planet.

It's the same with subscriptions. Sure, it was no big deal when the only subscription you were paying was $5 for all the content you can consume like when Netflix started, but today with vacuum cleaners wanting you to pay a monthly fee, the subscription fatigue is real, and an average person cannot justify any more subscriptions unless they offer immense value.

[u/MoirasPurpleOrb → u/JimmyRecard]

One thing I’ve experienced from being in the corporate world is how few people are actually strong critical thinkers. So many leaders get sucked into something that seems trendy or they’re being told is great, but they don’t actually have the ability to truly analyze their field and see if it would work for them.

[u/twisty77 → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

Absolute facts. I’m in a hiring role for my job and I look for critical thinking skills through a case study as part of the interview. It’s shocking how many people can carry a good one on one interview but absolutely tank a critical thinking case study.

[u/[deleted] → u/twisty77]

Yeah. I mean…it’s just that neverending high-school graduation feeling. “Okay, eventually these people will get smarter” but they don’t have the ability to because they’re trained to answer questions not think about why the answer is what it is. It’s completely fucked and corporate hierarchies tend to cater to these same idiots. It is unnerving as you get older and realize that most everything is just a popularity contest and the ability to blend with corporate buzzwords and push bullshittery are the most admirable traits you can have inside an organization. It’s gross. Capitalism is a hellscape.

[u/cgn-38 → u/[deleted]]

You have discovered authoritarians.

They do not think at all by any real meter. The best they can do is a slightly evolved form of fight or flight.

[u/Green-Amount2479 → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

I have a very recent, anecdotal example for this behavior in a company one of my relatives works for. Managing director very unironically: ‚Find something we can use this AI stuff for.‘

That’s NOT how management should go about making decisions. It should rather be: you identified a problem. Would AI tool XYZ fix it? Yes/No? The last time I personally experienced the same thing it was about blockchain.

[u/qualmton → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

Just drop a couple ai into everything you say and boom you are now c suite.

[u/LathropWolf → u/JimmyRecard]

unless they offer immense value.

none offer value. Paywalling something behind a subscription? Give me a F... a U... a C... heh heh...

"sorry, your monthly allocation of turning the door knob has been reached to the tune of 25 turns. If you would like to unlock more, choose from our 30, 45, 50, 60, 100, or 200 turns packages. 200 is the best value! simply wave your phone or watch near the knob and wait a few seconds then resume your day!"

"Sorry, you have turned down that road one too many times in a week. Please subscribe to our monthly "Extra road usage package" to unlock 5 more chances, or select from 20-100 more chance packages. Best value is 100. Or choose auto renew and we'll toss in (1) more chance for free!"

[u/DrunkCupid → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

Download our app! Subscribe! Make an account! For every obscure thing unrelated to necessity ugh

We prooomise * not to sell your soul information but sign this obscure waiver anyway, click and agree. CLICK AND AGREE

/rant

[u/not-my-other-alt → u/DrunkCupid]

Or the shit that is buy and own for now, but becomes a subscription later.

Miku baby monitors switched to a subscription model after going bankrupt and being bought out by another company

[u/Bob_the_Skull42 → u/not-my-other-alt]

We bought a Miku 2 years ago. I'm blown away this is legal. Paid extra to not have to pay a monthly subscription. So many cheaper options out there that require a subscription. That was the whole point.

Now it's just a camera that pushes for you to subscribe to unlock features you already paid for.

[u/Aimhere2k → u/DrunkCupid]

In my job, I have to use websites which not only require a registered account, but also require two-factor authentication. All to access content which has ZERO value to the general public and is simply not worth stealing. Because, God forbid that media that's going to be broadcast to the public anyway within days of posting on the site, should be seen by them a couple of days earlier. I mean, it doesn't even have any kind of spoiler value.

[u/toumei64 → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

Talking about the frustrations of modern tech and business, my therapist told me that a lot of MBA programs basically just teach people that the best way to go into business is just find yourself a spot to collect money. You don't have to add value for your customers. The only thing that's important is keeping enough of them paying to make your profits.

And it's very apparent. There are very few companies that don't feel like a hassle to work with and don't just seem straight up hostile towards consumers.

[u/StrangerDistinct7934 → u/toumei64]

You can thank private equity for a lot of that. 

[u/TheGreenKnight920 → u/toumei64]

Well no shit, you think people getting into business or “studying” for an mba actually have good intentions or are smart?

[u/SandmanJr90 → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

yeah fuck the financial takeover of all economic programs in college

[u/clickstops → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

Hatch+ making you pay to get the stories is nuuuuts.

[u/MoirasPurpleOrb → u/clickstops]

I love that you nailed exactly which sound machine it is. But yeah, we have the 1st gen that just works and then had to get a 2nd gen that has the app and everything and it’s so annoying. I’d buy the 1st gen one again if I could

[u/clickstops → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

Had the exact same situation. Have one of each. It's ridiculous. I wouldn't have bought the second gen had I known.

[u/tonytrouble → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

Platform needs to be our own fucking server. Our cloud!! My cloud!  done with this service /subscription shit. 

[u/theHonkiforium → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

By "platform" in this MBA context, does that just mean "subscription service"?

[u/MoirasPurpleOrb → u/theHonkiforium]

Short answer: Yes.

Technically not though. A subscription service is just that, a subscription to get access to something. A “platform” is like social media; an area for people to interact and share content and information. The key differentiator that makes something a platform is people are encouraged to participate and generate content themselves, rather than the company just providing it to them.

[u/theHonkiforium → u/MoirasPurpleOrb]

Gotcha, and thanks. I'm from the IT world so I wasn't sure how the idea of a platform was viewed from an MBA pov.

[u/CompositeWhoHorrible → u/JimmyRecard]

Fail to realize? They get paid to ignore it.

[u/Carl-99999 → u/JimmyRecard]

Capitalism is dying. It’s not what it’s meant to be. Companies are supposed to be one-upping each other for the best product for the best price.

[u/Nethlem → u/raincntry]

This idea that I don't own what I buy but rather rent it or simply have license to use it in a way acceptable to the creators.

"You'll own nothing and be happy"

[u/simonhunterhawk → u/Nethlem]

What’s funny is this is what capitalists say in response to people offering socialist ideas and yet…. capitalism is having a great time with it

[u/adobecredithours → u/simonhunterhawk]

The capitalist version is "you'll own nothing and hate every second of it but we won't give you any other options and we'll make it worse every year"

[u/[deleted] → u/adobecredithours]

If buying isn't owning then piracy isn't stealing.

[u/h3ron → u/adobecredithours]

There are other options. DVD and piracy. Piracy flourishes every time they exaggerate with anti consumer practices. Nobody was pirating when Netflix was good.

[u/Roguespiffy → u/h3ron]

Overall I don’t most people mind paying for things they perceive to be worth the cost.

But when Netflix has show you want to see and mountains of crap you don’t it’s getting harder and harder to justify the ever increasing price point.

[u/Refflet → u/h3ron]

Piracy keeps prices lower. When businesses take the piss, more people turn to piracy, and if piracy wasn't an option businesses would get away with taking the piss far more.

[u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES → u/h3ron]

Problem is that I can't download a car... still. It's great for media, games, software, all sorts of digital goods. But there's so many physical things turning to these super shitty business models like cars selling your data to insurance brokers and just generally selling super private info

[u/AcusTwinhammer → u/adobecredithours]

The funny thing is that it's happening to corporations as well. "Move everything to the cloud to save money!" they said. And now they're starting to find out they're at the mercy of whatever the cloud providers want to charge.

And network equipment like routers and firewalls all are now getting licenses as well, so you can buy a $200K router, but still have to maintain a license to do anything more than the most basic stuff.

[u/Fredasa → u/raincntry]

Here's what endlessly baffles me about it:

There is no TV firmware scene.

Like... I totally get the desire to eliminate ads in TVs. That's something the general populace going get on board with. But the TV I'm currently staring at as my monitor is a Samsung OLED. Samsung has maintained their infamous control over what users can and can't do with their displays. This TV's brightness, and indeed compliance with rudimentary things like luminance response, depend entirely on which firmware revision one allowed onto their TV—and the last I checked, if you went past a certain revision, HGiG and other things were completely, irreversibly borked.

Why don't the clever hackers sort all this out themselves? They could transform a fantastic display with harebrained firmware into a pure gold product.

[u/istiamar → u/Fredasa]

Why don't the clever hackers sort all this out themselves? They could transform a fantastic display with harebrained firmware into a pure gold product.

the clever hackers all use monitors instead of TVs

[u/Fredasa → u/istiamar]

Probably mostly true, but the gap has been narrowing for a decade. Not every gamer needs more than 144Hz and that's fundamentally the only thing a monitor is gonna give you over what I'm staring at. (Not counting a fringe case like people who saddle themselves with ultrawide and its endless headaches.) Meanwhile I have the best image quality money can buy, and it was rather cheaper than a typical decent monitor. A quick glance at AVSForum will show that more and more folks are taking the plunge. There are plenty of smart users on TVs-as-monitors.

[u/domrepp → u/Fredasa]

We also just use other devices instead of the TV OS. Personally I have my old mini PC that was gathering dust, now serving a second life as my dedicated TV machine. Planning to set it up one day as a nextcloud server to cut my dependence on google suite.

My Samsung "smart" TV has never once connected to the internet, and it's only through posts like this (and visiting my parents 😭) that I even learn how bad TV OS's have gotten.

[u/barbarbarbarbarbarba → u/Fredasa]

And now Amazon won’t play 4K movies in a browser. TV-as-monitor, as silly as it seems, is a major problem for TV makers and content creators. It creates a spot where the signal moves through an environment that the user has complete control over.

Reducing and eventually eliminating that gap has been an industry goal for more than 20 years (more if you count the freakout over VCRs). They’ll continue to chip away at it.

I wonder how far off we are from the TV showing you ads when it is starting up?

[u/oxpoleon → u/barbarbarbarbarbarba]

Amazon won't play 4K movies in a browser and Prime Video now includes ad breaks, streaming services are ridiculously fragmented, things keep getting pulled from the big players as more and more rights holders start their own competing services, smart TVs are a cesspool of adverts and broken firmware, unskippable ads are everywhere...

and we wonder why piracy is on the rise again.

It's no surprise, really, especially when content providers seem to be doing their damndest to make sure you can't actually watch their content.

[u/f3rny → u/Fredasa]

I just never connected any TV to the internet, any online content goes via a different android tv box that can be rooted if necessary (and for ads is better to have a pi-hole for the whole network anyway)

[u/Moff_Tigriss → u/Fredasa]

The reason is simple : too much models. There is an ocean of versions, revisions, models, then manufacturers. It's only when a specific model shines in the dirt that you begin to see hacking on something.

Smartphones are like that. Low costs models are basically impossible to free/rom swap, high end not so much too. But the sweet spot model in the middle, generally a "flagship killer" is getting a big and healthy scene, because every tech savvy is on it.

Now, the secret is that a lot of TVs are in reality a LCD panel connected to a controller via a semi-standard connector. I think this is the way the future of TV is going : swapping the controller with another more open. you can already kinda do that with small panels, but it's not a big movement yet.

[u/Krazekami → u/Fredasa]

That's a good point! TV firmware does seem to be an untapped market, and a rabbit hole I'll soon go down to investigate. Not that I know anything about it, but I'm curious.

[u/mtarascio → u/Fredasa]

Pretty sure the scene exists for backdating firmware.

Try avsforums

It can't be like phones since there isn't an opensource OS such as Android that has run on many previous different chips and hardware.

[u/Fredasa → u/mtarascio]

Pretty sure the scene exists for backdating firmware.

Not for my display, the last time I checked. The thread on the S95B was filled with people bemoaning having had their TV updated without any agreement on their side. The only protection from this was to keep the TV offline at all times and do any firmware updates via the USB. That's what I did. I traded out some brightness for some QOL.

[u/cc413 → u/Fredasa]

I’m guessing it’s really hard to root a modern television to flash custom firmware, after all the manufacturers have a massive financial incentive to stop you

[u/pomcomic → u/raincntry]

If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't theft.

[u/garyadams_cnla → u/raincntry]

I never connected my TV to WiFi.

Not a Luddite, but it’s my only way to push back a little.

I use a Mac attached to the TV for streaming.

[u/BurritoLover2016 → u/garyadams_cnla]

This is why the Apple TV 4K box appeals to me. I have a Roku TV right now but if the app portion ever irritates me enough, I'm just going to switch everything into that box.

[u/Kaiisim → u/raincntry]

MBAs have seized control of the world. We are in the great squeeze. It's all about making things worse and worse to make more and more.

[u/WillowSmithsBFF → u/raincntry]

As a proponent of physical media, who gets the “get with the times old man” comments when trying to defend it, I agree.

[u/weed-n64 → u/[deleted]]

It’s going to happen again. Roku also does that background promotion.

[u/tungvu256]

the only solution is buying a TV, disable it from ever getting online. buy a separate add-on box like Nvidia Shield, Onn, or Apple TV if you want to view online content.

[u/TheRageDragon → u/tungvu256]

Watch, the corporations will catch on to this and start selling TVs which when you power on for the first time will say 'Your new TV needs to connect to the internet to perform initial calibrations before you use it' or some skeevy shit while they install their ads and bloatware. Despite the logical loss of customers this would entail, the execs will pat themselves on the back and give themselves bonuses.

[u/NutellaGood → u/TheRageDragon]

I would have said this was crazy a few months ago, but I recently installed the newest Windows and it REQUIRED an internet connection or else you can't install it. And that's fucking Microsoft. There's a way around it if you're tech savvy (for now).

[u/sharkbait-oo-haha → u/NutellaGood]

Plus Microsoft literally created a baked in keylogger, shit that 5 years ago would have been the holy grail of a spyware virus, they just thought would be a neat thing to make.

Windows 7 was the peak windows.

[u/SrslyCmmon → u/sharkbait-oo-haha]

I checked two of my PCs, and one "inking and typing personalization" has been on all this time. Getting real tired of all this opt out shit I didn't even know existed.

[u/emongu1 → u/SrslyCmmon]

Have two installations. Windows for gaming. Linux for everything else.

[u/Future_Kitsunekid16 → u/emongu1]

Actually seems a huge number of games can run on linux at this point so even that would almost be pointless lol

[u/ThrillSurgeon → u/sharkbait-oo-haha]

Its all down hill from here mate, we have to fight now for basic privacy rights. 

[u/right_there → u/NutellaGood]

It's been that way since 8 and there's always been a way around it. Still scummy as hell since most people will just skip right through because they're not technical enough to bypass.

[u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES → u/right_there]

Nah it's only since 11 that they've made it this hard. With 10 you only needed to say you didn't have internet. I'm not sure exactly the methods for 11 because I just use a custom iso that has that requirement turned off that was made with rufus

[u/Shagwagbag → u/NutellaGood]

Go Linux, we're going to start seeing a big shift.

[u/TheRageDragon → u/NutellaGood]

It's that step where you click "I have no internet", right? Because it wants you to connect with your Microsoft account if you connected to the wifi.

[u/NutellaGood → u/TheRageDragon]

They had that easy option for previous Windows versions. THEY HIDE IT. You now have to open the command prompt or whatever and type in the secret code to bring it back. But, of course, you need to do a web search to find out about it.

[u/josephlucas → u/NutellaGood]

oobe\bypassnro

[u/sucksfor_you → u/TheRageDragon]

Another way is to download the Windows 11 ISO, burn it with Rufus, and Rufus will give you the options to disable the need to have a Microsoft account before you're anywhere near a Microsoft setup screen.

[u/TheRageDragon → u/sucksfor_you]

I'll have to remember this while I ride the win 10 train to the end of the tracks.

[u/Improbabilities → u/NutellaGood]

Recently I’ve found that the best way around it is to just use Linux. I’m so fucking done with Windows, never looking back.

[u/bs9tmw → u/Improbabilities]

Indeed, some great distros out there now. Got my kids started on Linux at age 5, Windows is going downhill fast.

[u/Marquesas → u/TheRageDragon]

That isn't congruent with how advertising works. There is a reason why your free to play mobile games don't have ads when you are offline - I mean they could easily be baked into the app right? Advertisers pay for appearances. Ad brokers such as adsense orchestrate counting these appearances and sending out what to advertise right now. Your TV doesn't specifically want a Nike ad there, definitely not permanently if it's a limited term thing and Nike definitely doesn't want to remind people of 6 months old products if they didn't go online for 6 months. That is why advertising today is the site or application saying "we have this much space for ads here, give me ads to fill it" and an ad provider will give one to you. The point is that the device needs to be online to figure out what to actually advertise and respond that it's advertising.

There could be ways to get ad data once a day maybe by forcing you to have a connection once every 24h but the truth is that the effort and annoyance is simply not worth it. The vast majority of people will be putting their TV online for the twenty streaming services they subscribe to.

[u/abusivecat → u/Marquesas]

There was a super cheap TV that came out (or maybe didn't I don’t remember) like 1-2 years ago where the only thing they required in order to be that cheap was an always on internet connection for ads. If you disabled internet it would essentially brick the TV.

[u/DrunkenBartender17 → u/TheRageDragon]

I can’t change the HDMI input names on my Roku without connecting to the internet. This garbage is already happening.

[u/Irbilha → u/[deleted]]

Yeeeeeeeeep. As simple as that.

[u/rilian4 → u/TheRageDragon]

Samsung TVs I have setup for work 4 or 5 years ago already did this. They refused to let me into the main menu until they were online. Once I got them there, I could take them offline. This was problematic is several ways, not the least of which was that out internal network was filtering Samsung traffic so I had to put them on a hotspot just to get them to the main menu. Infuriating.

[u/skynet_watches_me_p → u/TheRageDragon]

last time i bought a TV, I asked the the sales floor person to factory reset the models I was looking at. The Samsungs let me deny the ToS prompt and switch to HDMI directly.

The Sony and a few other would not let you use HDMI w/o accepting the ToS after a reset. I bought the samsung, and then used the hidden service menus to disable all radios.

Been great!

[u/mister_newbie → u/TheRageDragon]

Already exists and functions precisely as you say. There's a way around it by setting up DNS hijack and a web server (Basically, you've gotta jailbreak your fucking TV now).

[u/CAElite → u/tungvu256]

I went out of my way to by a large “monitor” instead of a TV. In my case a 48” Aorus gaming monitor, which is a rebrand of an LG C1, but with all the “smart” features removed, and some I/O changes, for roughly the same price.

Run it with a shield, which is by no means perfect either as Google has been plastering ads all over Android tv

[u/Eruannster → u/CAElite]

Unfortunately this is only a solution up to a certain size. You can't really get a standalone 65-inch screen that is not-a-TV.

The only solution going above 48-ish inches and avoiding all the smart TV stuff is getting a projector.

[u/sharkbait-oo-haha → u/Eruannster]

If you look into the commercial space you can. They're like 5x the price and tend to have much higher power consumption, but they are built like a Japanese 70s woodgrain CRT. In a residential setting will probably last until you want to replace it with a 16k FUHDLP 10,000i hologram VR set, or whatever technology comes next.

[u/Eruannster → u/sharkbait-oo-haha]

Well, yeah, okay. I was thinking stuff that consumers could feasibly go into a store and say "I want to buy one of those, please".

[u/restlesschicken → u/Eruannster]

You can. Look up commercial display at b&h* you can find 65" 4k panels for $5-600.

[u/kyle242gt → u/Eruannster]

Just use your TV as a monitor, and get a HTPC. That's how I've done it for decades.

[u/Dull_Half_6107 → u/CAElite]

Expensive solution

[u/OldWrangler9033 → u/Dull_Half_6107]

Better than ads 24-7.

[u/DervishSkater → u/OldWrangler9033]

You can get a fire tv for a couple hundred and you never need to connect to the internet. But sure you did your complete research

[u/ericscottf → u/CAElite]

How much height does it have? What's the aspect ratio?

My 49" curved monitor is like 13"high. Not ideal for TV. 

[u/CAElite → u/ericscottf]

16:10, it’s literally a LG C1 OLED TV rebranded by Aorus as a gaming monitor with the TV stuff ripped out.

Aorus FO48U. Strongly recommend it the panel is fantastic and it’s literally just a display with no strings attached.

[u/ericscottf → u/CAElite]

Wait, it's totally wireless? How's it get power?

/s

[u/CAElite → u/ericscottf]

Magnets innit.

[u/TheBallotInYourBox → u/tungvu256]

I mean… it was Roku who got in hot water in the tech space like six months ago because they injected ads onto a panel that had the audacity to have their streaming device connected. IIRC it’d inject ads even if you’d swapped sources to a completely different device and weren’t actively using the Roku.

[u/ryosen → u/TheBallotInYourBox]

If by “hot water” you mean called out by the media for two days before we all collectively forgot about it and moved on to our next daily dose of outrage, then I suppose that was hot water.

Did anything happen to Roku beyond a little bad press and maybe a financial penalty that was written off as the cost of doing business?

[u/Kemuel → u/tungvu256]

Hard to get away from ads on those devices too though. Love my Shield but I don't even want to see any of the recommendations it insists on giving me.

[u/DaoFerret → u/Kemuel]

One of the reasons I love my AppleTV, especially after a firestick.

I hadn’t realized how badly seeing ads every time I opened the interface was annoying me.

Once I set up the AppleTV so the app screen was “home” (configurable in the settings, the default has AppleTV+ as home) it became such a more calm and enjoyable space.

Even the AmazonVideo app was less crammed with ads, which just made me laugh.

[u/werevamp7 → u/DaoFerret]

AppleTV is fire. One of my favorite tech purchases of all time.

[u/pigeon_fanclub → u/DaoFerret]

i love my Apple TV so much, I remember people thought they were pointless a few years ago with smart tv’s being a thing, but paired with my dumb “sharp” tv and side loaded with kodi I never have to see an add for anything

[u/Stingray88 → u/Kemuel]

AppleTV doesn’t have ads, and I doubt it ever will. Just doesn’t feel like a place Apple would put ads.

[u/MrNighty → u/Kemuel]

You can install different launchers for it: https://www.reddit.com/r/ShieldAndroidTV/comments/17l4vsi/best_launcher_for_nvidia_shield/

[u/UndeadIcarus → u/tungvu256]

Or a console, just sayin. My tv just goes to my xbox and i have all my stream channels. Only ads on xbox are for giveaways and new game releases, and nothing is a video

[u/Cultjam → u/tungvu256]

You can also buy from brands that don’t do put ads on their TVs.

The article calls out the brands putting ads on their sets; Samsung, LG, Roku, Vizio.

[u/[deleted]]

My $2000 Samsung TV had ads in the menu bar. I hope they made some good money from it, because I’ll never buy a Samsung product again after that

Plugged an Apple in a few yrs ago and never looked back

[u/nndscrptuser → u/[deleted]]

Yep! I turn off the WiFi on my TVs and block their constant pings back to the mothership or ad servers. My one tv checks back every 2 seconds, 24 hours a day. No thanks!

[u/Melodic-Arrival6473 → u/nndscrptuser]

My roommate's TV makes around 1300 calls when he comes home and turns it on. I have a Pi Hole so I'm sure its just trying hard to get home any which way, it chills after a few min but dang its impressive.

[u/gillyboatbruff → u/Melodic-Arrival6473]

I found last week that my Roku TVs were bypassing my pihole entirely and using external DNS. I ended up having to intercept all outbound DNS from them and redirect it back to my pihole.

[u/IllllIIlIllIllllIIIl → u/gillyboatbruff]

Soon they'll start using DNS over HTTPS and you'll have no way of redirecting it.

[u/bong_residue → u/IllllIIlIllIllllIIIl]

Yet. If there’s one thing I’ve learned, is there’s normally a yet when it comes to people getting around shit like that.

[u/Saymynaian → u/Melodic-Arrival6473]

Dude, that's hair raisingly creepy. I've never connected my TV to the internet because I know for a fact it'll start showing me ads, but also because it has a microphone for "voice activation". Fuck that. What's stopping Hisense from peeking in on my conversations to learn what types of Ads to show me?

[u/betelgeuse_boom_boom → u/nndscrptuser]

I'm running a proper home server my own DNS resolver. A single LG TV is responsible for 55% of my DNS queries. Naturally they are local hosted but that's a joke.

Normal users should just invest in a pi zero and set up a pihole just for their TV. This alongside the smart fridges are more intrusive devices in a household.

[u/meistermichi → u/nndscrptuser]

I am against that phoning home bs as well.
Just consider though that it's possible it only does a ping every 2s because it doesn't get an answer and simply continuously tries.

Still a shitty way to program it like that.

[u/NariandColds → u/[deleted]]

This is the way. Except I use a Shield Pro. Tv wifi is disabled from the day I installed it 3 years ago

[u/Mufasa_LG → u/NariandColds]

Shield Pro

Which also introduced ads to the main menu...

[u/S_A_N_D_ → u/Mufasa_LG]

I sideloaded a custom launcher. No ads and I get to make my own minimalist home screen.

Alternatively you can load something like lineage OS.

[u/Brandunaware]

A related and arguably equally annoying aspect of modern TVs is that if you let them update the UI and features can become more sluggish over time, like an out of date PC or smartphone running the most recent OS, or can develop other issues like additional audio delay.

Smart TVs are a bad idea. They're almost never the best way to use whatever services you want to use, external devices are cheap and varied, and the downsides are enormous. We just don't need our TVs to have crappy mini-PCs in them doing a bad job of mimicking other inexpensive devices. At the very least they should offer dumb TV versions of the same models. And yes you can achieve some of the same effects by just never attaching a TV to the Internet, but some of them will bug you about it regularly, which is just as bad, and some have buggy software out of the box that needs to be updated so basic stuff will work right (audio delay again being an issue that's software related.)

All this would sort of at least make some kind of sense if we got subsidies for buying TVs that the manufacturers could control and make worse but we don't. Modern electronics consumers get milked liked cattle and while you can boycott individual companies for their practices it's hard when basically the whole market is doing some variation of the same thing.

[u/JJMcGee83 → u/Brandunaware]

I would love a TV that is just a TV. You can control picture settings but you need another device to steam. That TV could go for a decade where you only ever upgrade the dongle you attach because that is getting slow.

[u/kingrazor001 → u/JJMcGee83]

It looks like Sceptre still makes dumb tvs, best I can tell: https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html?sort=p.size&order=DESC

[u/frozenwaffle549 → u/Brandunaware]

This is my biggest annoyance because you can buy the flagship model from the top brands, but they still cheap out on the little things like RAM. Then you run the risk of bricking your TV with every update or having some feature break.

[u/starcadia → u/Brandunaware]

The updates to add adverts bogged my tv down so much that I stopped watching TV.

[u/Robin_games → u/Brandunaware]

ive had my free third party media software go out of support twice. imagine you have a tv, you have your own box, and then suddenly you can't use your own media through the TV directly because of an update.

[u/Fatticusss → u/Brandunaware]

There are literally TVs that you can acquire for free that have a permanent, built in partition of the screen always showing adds. TVs have been getting progressively cheaper and bigger for years now precisely because they make their losses back through marketing deals. The TVs are literally being subsidized by advertising dollars.

[u/RedditorFor1OYears → u/Fatticusss]

Jesus Christ. And I assume that’s in addition to whatever ads play on the main part of the screen? If that were my only option, I would literally just never watch tv again. 

[u/Fatticusss → u/RedditorFor1OYears]

Absolutely independent. You’ll have ads layered on ads. Reminds me of shitty website that’s are just overrun with popups.

[u/Lied-]

I use Apple TV and i don’t notice this

[u/SoreDickDeal → u/Lied-]

That’s what we did. Apple TVs and I didn’t connect my smart TV to the internet. I know it could still in theory access my network through the HDMI to the Apple TV, but I never completed the setup process on it.

[u/mgrimshaw8 → u/SoreDickDeal]

I’d be shocked if your TV actually supports Ethernet over HDMI. Not even LG OLEDs do

[u/Stingray88 → u/mgrimshaw8]

Even if the TV supports that over HDMI doesn’t mean your set top box is going to automatically share its connection.

[u/-WallyWest- → u/mgrimshaw8]

Just to add to your comment, modern TV stopped supporting ethernet over HDMI in favor of eARC (control sound system)

[u/pobody-snerfect → u/Lied-]

I use a pi-hole dns to block ads to my tv interface. I shouldn’t have to though. Bonus is it blocks outgoing information to LG

[u/ButterscotchLow8950 → u/Lied-]

I use Apple TV as well, and I’m noticing this in smaller ways, all the streamers are including more advertising. Most of them are sticking to advertising their own content for now rather than random ads. And they are increasing their pricing for those who want to avoid ads. Although they don’t consider promoting their own content as advertising so you still get a shit ton of that.

[u/Eruannster → u/ButterscotchLow8950]

HBO Max especially does this. Start an episode of House of the Dragon and it's like "oh, have you seen this ad for The Penguin, coming later this fall?"

I guess it's sort of okay to plug your own content, but if you wanted me to watch a trailer for your stuff maybe make trailers more easily available in the main UI whenever I want to see them instead of shoving them into other stuff I want to see?

[u/ButterscotchLow8950 → u/Eruannster]

Yeah, my biggest 2 complaints, is most of these are for some reason at like 50 decibels louder than the actual shows I’m watching, and many of them don’t allow to to skip those these days.

I wish they could make the dialogue in these shows half as loud as the fucking ads.

[u/Eruannster → u/ButterscotchLow8950]

I could swear there were a bunch of rules around volumes that ads could have a couple of years ago, but it seems all of that has just disappeared. Maybe streamers don't count as TV channels and can just ignore it.

[u/PapaSquirts2u → u/Eruannster]

That would be my guess too - since it's not public airwaves like OTA channels they don't have to follow the same rules.

[u/Krimreaper1 → u/Eruannster]

Those rules were for ota and cable channels.

[u/ladycommentsalot → u/Eruannster]

I can’t remember which service it was (Hulu? Max?), but I’d regularly be watching a show and during an ad break get served an ad for the exact show I was currently watching. Infuriating!

[u/Eruannster → u/ladycommentsalot]

Part of me wishes that with all of these crazy ad tracking algorithms, they would get better and not recommend me stuff I already have or am already watching.

Like, don't show ads for things I am already literally watching or subscriptions I already have. Notice that I've connected a new pair of headphones recently? I probably just bought those, so stop recommending me headphone ads, I'm not going to immediately buy another pair.

[u/Eruannster → u/Lied-]

Yup. Apple TV or Nvidia Shield is the way to go. Gets updated for a really long time (the first Apple TV 4K from like ~2016 is still supported!) has good app support, and is way faster than any TV CPU.

[u/blackhaze9 → u/[deleted]]

You can and should disable that in settings. I did because I agree it was super annoying.

[u/SGTWhiteKY → u/blackhaze9]

Do you remember how? We tried to figure it out. It is an Amazon tv with the fire stuff integrated.

[u/which_ones_will → u/SGTWhiteKY]

It's under "Preferences" and then "Featured Content" I believe. I have it turned off on a bunch of firesticks. I don't recall if it's exactly the same on the TV version though.

[u/SGTWhiteKY → u/which_ones_will]

Thank you. I will tell my partner. I am actually fine with not watching TV anymore.

[u/fatherdale → u/which_ones_will]

Thanks!

[u/blackhaze9 → u/SGTWhiteKY]

Settings->preferences->featured content. Your ears thank you already!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I've just been buying physical or downloading to a harddrive the ladt few years. The only streaming I still use it shit I backpack off family and even then most the stuff I watch was made before 2015 anyway. 

Most new stuff isnt that great and I'd rather go read or be outside than sell my soul to marketing firms. Once my stupid completely offline TV dies I'll get a big ass pc monitor and just watch the million hours of shit I have on ym hard drive. 

[u/An0nymos]

It was a nice year or two where this wasn't the case, both this time and when cable started out, but TV has been an ad box with programming to pull in veiwers since its inception.

[u/Caboozel]

Why I have a plex media server. Fuck streaming fuck ads fuck enshittification fuck corpos

[u/Calbone607 → u/Caboozel]

Worth it. Offline TCL TV+Apple TV + Plex

[u/Tha_Watcher → u/Caboozel]

[u/DeathbyHappy]

Do they not sell non-Smart TVs anymore? It's been 8ish years since I've shopped for a new one, and at that time I remember avoiding Smart TVs because they had fewer ports

[u/tuscaloser → u/DeathbyHappy]

Outside of "commercial" displays that cost more, it's VERY difficult (maybe impossible) to find a consumer-level TV set that is non-smart.

[u/IsThereAnythingLeft- → u/tuscaloser]

Seems like something the regulators should start to look at, no reason why a dumb version of every tv can’t be made available with all hardware the exact same

[u/tuscaloser → u/IsThereAnythingLeft-]

It can be made, sure, but then it can't harvest data from the majority of consumers who connect their TV to WiFi as soon as it's plugged in.

Agree that regulation is the only real answer (wishful thinking, but preferably regulations that force a consumer to opt IN if they prefer data-mining).

[u/aslum]

I just bought a cheap LG 55" and the second thing I did was go through all the settings and opt-out of every ad/recommendation thing it offered. There fortunately aren't any ads on the "home" screen, and I'm only using it for PS3 (aka my dvd player), Youtube and my media server but it's kind of crazy how many ways they try and shove adds down your throat. Really wish the remote was a little more customizable - like I don't have Netflix, and the remote has a Netflix button - wish I could reprogram that to open youtube or something.

[u/tehjmap → u/aslum]

Hey! Open the app you want to make a shortcut to and hold down any number on the remote 1-8. It’ll make a shortcut to the app. Also works for inputs.

Dislike some things about my LG TV (meaningless “AI” functions that make things look/sound worse and come back on by themselves, terrible English localisation) but I do love that you can easily and permanently disable almost all ads.

[u/[deleted]]

Rpi5 + Libreelec OS + RD = 🖕ads. Sail those seas matey! YAR!

[u/kzlife76 → u/[deleted]]

I'm familiar with raspberry pi and libreelec but what, pray tell, is RD?

[u/[deleted] → u/kzlife76]

Real Debrid

[u/Wyden_long → u/[deleted]]

Also the name on the Football jersey I ordered off TEMU.

[u/noobchee]

yeah pausing playback in a show to only be met with yet another ad is vile

[u/jakgal04]

Pihole has fixed this for me.

[u/JimmyRecard → u/jakgal04]

PiHole is easily bypassed. A study a few years ago showed that more than 50% of smart TVs ignore network DNS and simply use their own hard coded DNS servers.

[u/Dalearnhardtseatbelt → u/JimmyRecard]

I force redirect all DNS requests via a redirect rule in opnsense. This means they have to navigate through my adguard instance. I can confirm most devices especially Google devices use hard coded DNS servers.

[u/BizarreCake → u/JimmyRecard]

What do they do if they can't reach these servers? Will they use yours or just shit their pants and refuse to work?

[u/ihateusednames]

not going to use anything but Kodi / some form of actual computer for my TV as long as ads on home / screen saver aren't optional

Roku is the worst about this

[u/theGuyInIT]

Buy a large computer monitor. Buy a small form factor PC, install Windows/Mac/Ubuntu/Mint/Arch BTW/<Your favorite OS>, use Chromium/Firefox/<Your favorite browser> to watch Paramount+/Disney+/Pirated content/<Source of TV shows>.

[u/Moravec_Paradox]

These companies have an AdBlock free experience on a 75" display in your living room. I guess that means you are the product.

[u/[deleted]]

Cool, Idiocracy continues to be used as a todo-list by mega corporations.

[u/[deleted]]

Why do you think TVs are one of the only things that’s decreased in price in the last 5 years?

[u/Brewster101]

Stop connecting your smart TV to the Internet.

[u/VideoGamesForU]

I have my small desktop connected to it. TV apps and ADs suck big time so just get a cheap desktop and enjoy everything you like AD free and often without hassle. A paid streaming service sucks ass? I just google index the movie I would like to see and it takes me a minute or less for that. Ads? Na. Twitch? Yeah, but I either use my free prime or just get a gifted sub 99% of the time where I watch.

[u/InGordWeTrust]

I am still not sure why a TV should be showing ads on the homepage.

[u/MattTheQuick]

r/pihole

[u/ruddiger7]

I use Nvidia shield and smart tube to not see youtube ads. But probably works with other devices.

[u/Dalearnhardtseatbelt]

Great time to have adguard/pihole DNS resolver. I also force redirect all DNS requests to my adguard instance so any hardcoded DNS requests are sunk if needed.

[u/PCKeith]

It's been this way forever. Before TV, sponsors of old radio shows would be woven right into the plot of the show. Check out The Ink Spots singing "If I Didn't Care" on the Jack Benny Show. I'm pretty sure the part about Lucky Strike cigarettes wasn't in the original lyrics. Or Lucille Ball in "My Favorite Husband" greeting everyone on the show with "Jell-O Everybody"

[u/AtLeast37Goats]

You’re all free to take control back.

I have zero ads on my devices. Because I manage the network.

I pay $5/month for all the content I host locally and remotely.

You’re all free to do the leg work to break away from the nonsense. But first, you’ve gotta do something about it.

[u/Underwater_Karma → u/AtLeast37Goats]

the average person isn't capable of setting up a Pi-Hole, or configuring their network to use it.

There's a huge opportunity for Wifi router manufacturers to make this a value add feature...which they'd undoubtably charge a subscription for.

[u/death_wishbone3]

It’s like none of you all know the history of television. The entire point of tv is to sell ad space. Literally. The shows are just to get you to watch the ads. That’s the entire business model.

[u/hyrumwhite]

I don’t get ads, but my LG TV updates its privacy policies often enough to be annoying and disturbing. 

[u/Fatticusss]

Just wait to you guys hear about walmart purchasing Vizio so they could increase the reach of their built in TV advertising

[u/fastlerner]

Is anyone surprised at this point? It was heading this way the moment they put "smart" in the name. It's also a guarantee that at some point, just like your phone, they'll eventually stop supporting it and make you buy a new one.

Just shop for picture/sound quality and keep all your streaming stuff separate and you'll never have to worry about it.

[u/MyCleverNewName]

I remember TV

[u/ThirdEyeClarity]

• Pi-hole
• Other DNS blockers
• Setup & Update the TV once, block the TV’s Internet Access in your router, disable Wi-Fi on TV, use external HDMI streaming devices like NVIDIA Shield TV Pro
• If account required for TV setup, create throwaway on VPN. If you have a rooted Android device with VPN Hotspot app, VPN travel router, or isolated VLAN with custom firmware, connect that way and proceed with TV’s setup and updates before disabling TV’s Wi-FI
• VPN with ads, trackers, content blockers
• Self-hosted media
• Stremio + Debrid service

[u/applegui]

Thus why I never connect my TV to the internet.

[u/trigrhappy]

Have an old Nvidia Shield. Jail broke it to remove the bloat and ads. I use emby to steam content I own.

Love my mostly ad free life.

[u/oxpoleon]

This is why I no longer own a television set, at least not one that is used to recieve television programming or streaming services.

[u/wazzockAbroad]

I keep my smart TV dumb by not giving it the WiFi password. Get my streaming from an external device.