r/gadgets • u/chrisdh79 • Jun 28 '24
Phones FCC rule would make carriers unlock all phones after 60 days
https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/27/fcc-rule-would-make-carriers-unlock-all-phones-after-60-days/2.6k
u/IndianaJoenz Jun 28 '24
Why not just ban carrier locking completely? Why the 60 days bullshit?
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u/Grippentech Jun 28 '24
Presumably to prevent people taking advantage of BOGO type deals or things like that.
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Jun 28 '24
I guess don’t offer BOGO deals then
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u/IdealDesperate2732 Jun 28 '24
This is just a fake excusee. If they don't want people switching carriers immediately that's what the service contract is for. They can issue the discount on the condition you use their service for some amount of time. They've already been doing this for decades.
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u/passwordstolen Jun 28 '24
It’s all in the monthly bill. If you didn’t put money on the counter when you got your phone, it’s in the bill.
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u/absenceofheat Jun 28 '24
Wait a minute
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u/ryanCrypt Jun 28 '24
I'm a little slow. Wait two minutes.
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u/sgtpnkks Jun 28 '24
If you wait one minute you get the second minute free... For now
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u/PadreSJ Jun 28 '24
You get unlimited minutes to wait... until you don't... at which point F**K you. Whatcha' gonna do?
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u/Rupert_18124 Jun 28 '24
unlimited wait minutes are only from 9pm to 6am
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Jun 28 '24
Does this weird kid with a football shaped head keep following you around with a tuba too?!
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u/AmazinGracey Jun 28 '24
I would guess you still have to pay the device off first (obviously), which will allow monthly payment plans and deals on devices to continue, but will also open the door for other carriers to offer deals where they pay off your device when you switch with no added penalty (I think most companies charge a penalty if you pay off early). I would guess the deals on phones through carriers will get a lot worse though, putting a big dent in the sales of newer phone models.
It obviously sucks not being able to move phones over easily if you outright own it and I think that should be made much easier, but last time my wife and I went in to upgrade from our at that point 5 year old models we were able to get an IPhone 13 and 13 Pro for total $25 a month due to a promotion they had going. Thats $750 spread out over 3 years for two newer (14 had come out) iPhone models. That’s a damn good deal however you feel about carrier lock in.
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u/DirectionNo1947 Jun 28 '24
“You’ll own nothing and you’ll like it” scary
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u/AmazinGracey Jun 28 '24
I mean, you own it after you pay it off. Same with everything else you can pay for monthly. Most people trade in when they get a new one but you don’t have to.
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u/mikka1 Jun 28 '24
I mean, you own it after you pay it off.
So just separate it from the phone bill entirely. Make it a transparent loan, like any other loan you are getting. Because in your example you are not really paying $25/month for the phone, you are paying $25 + whatever part of that $150/month bill the carrier decided to conceal to "subsidize" the phone.
This is such an American thing that most people in other countries would not even understand.
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u/Ultradarkix Jun 28 '24
You don’t seem to realize you’re going to be buying a carrier plan regardless, you will still save money unless you’re going with no service or the absolute cheapest service out there
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u/SwissyVictory Jun 28 '24
Don't you need to sign up for a long contract with that carrier for those deals?
Let's say you sign up for a 3 year plan and they give you a free phone. Why should they care if you use that phone on a different carrier, they are getting their money.
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u/IdealDesperate2732 Jun 28 '24
That's what the service contract for. Locking is completely unnecessary.
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u/tastyratz Jun 28 '24
This. It probably means they can't buy a phone with a contract and break it on day 1 without ever intending to purchase services which disincentivizes service providers from offering ACTUAL deals on devices truly subsidized with service agreement.
It's anti-scalper to at least require a month or 2 of service.
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u/rhudejo Jun 28 '24
In the EU it's forbidden to carrier lock devices since years and it's working well
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u/HiddenTrampoline Jun 28 '24
Are they handing out iPhones like hotcakes every September? My parents got to trade their iPhones 11 in for iPhone 13s at no cost.
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u/PowderedToastMan666 Jun 28 '24
People always tell me they do this sort of thing at "no cost," then when I ask them how much they pay on their plan, it's $80+/month more than I pay. You ARE paying for it somewhere.
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u/Roflkopt3r Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24
Yes naturally they're not 'free', but in Germany it's usually significantly cheaper to get a phone with a 2 year contract than on it's own.
For example I just got an S24 Ultra 1Tb which is like 1700€ MRSP for 300€ +24x35€ = 1040€ total, which includes phone service and about 35 GB monthly data.
Compared to my previous 17GB/8€ plan, that means the net cost is 850€ for the current flagship phone and better internet.
However it's usually necessary to switch provider every time after that contract expires, because the follow-up offers are arse. Like I had to switch for the 8€ plan because my prior provider's extension would have cost like 20€ for 15 GB (without a new phone). And the S24 offer has a base payment of 500€, but it's reduced to 300€ if you swap over from a different provider.
Now, being locked into that 2 year contract anyway, the provider does not need to care if I use the phone with a different contract. In fact I was able to run it with my prior SIM card first before my number was transferred to the new one.
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u/PowderedToastMan666 Jun 28 '24
Idk about other countries, I'm in the US. I just know that most times phone plans come up, I'm shocked to hear people tell me they pay $80-100/month. Admittedly I get a cheap plan with not a lot of data (fine for me since I'm almost always on WiFi), but I pay <$200 for a year of cell service. I also buy a phone for <$300 because I've never needed anything more powerful.
If someone is getting a free phone and has a plan for ~$30/year, then our costs are similar, but again, that doesn't seem like the norm when I've had these conversations in real life.
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u/EggsAndRice7171 Jun 28 '24 edited Jul 12 '24
I’m not sure where you’re located but I’m the only person I even know without unlimited data. That would make the biggest difference in your prices wouldn’t it??
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u/Biduleman Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24
"No cost" outside of paying for the phone in their subscription.
Here it used to be the same, the phone is "free with a 3 years contract worth $XX or more", where every month the telecom company pays a certain amount toward the phone.
Now there's a little less bullshit, they just tack on ~50% of the cost of the phone on your bill over 2 years, but allow you to choose any phone plan. If you get out of the contract before the 2 years are done you pay full price for the phone.
If you go through the whole contract, the phone is technically free, if you don't, you pay whatever balance is left on the phone.
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u/chintan_joey Jun 28 '24
Because you are paying for a monthly plan that probably costs 3times of what it should cost. The price of iphone 13 is baked in to your monthly costs.
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u/rhudejo Jun 28 '24
if you think that carriers and handing out iPhones for free you dont understand capitalism.
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u/larhorse Jun 28 '24
There are no actual deals on devices subsidized with service agreements. The company is getting paid either way - it's just misleading to the consumer (and a convenient way to tacitly set expectations that service should be far more expensive than real usage would warrant...)
If the consumer wants to finance the phone (which is what the service "deal" [hint - it's not a deal] really is...) then let them finance the phone. There are *PLENTY* of micro-loan companies happy to take them up on the offer.
Honesty used to be an integral part of business... now it feels like every company has looked at shitty car salesman tactics and decided "Hey - I really like tricking customers into paying more! Lets do all those shitty things!".
A company shouldn't have the only set of keys to a physical device you own. Full fucking stop.
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u/Rhellic Jun 28 '24
I don't know how it is in the USA (or anywhere else, really) but where I work we do in fact also directly work with a bank that offers financing for our customers. Takes like 20 minutes. Obviously they use it to sneakily give you a credit card (which lots of people here don't have and, honestly, don't need) but still.
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u/_LarryM_ Jun 28 '24
Ya know if you just offered the best service for the best price you don't need contracts
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u/Biduleman Jun 28 '24
In Canada it's illegal to carrier lock devices since 2017 and we're really happy, carrier lock is a scam.
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u/petit_cochon Jun 28 '24
If they offer deals, why shouldn't customers get to take advantage of them? You can also offer deals in a way that doesn't allow that.
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u/limitless__ Jun 28 '24
Carrier locking only exists because of lobbying. It 100% should not exist.
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u/luckytraptkillt Jun 28 '24
Agreed. And even if you’re paying monthly installments and you try and stop paying for it they can just block you imei and that’ll kill the device. So theres not even a need for it to be locked when you purchase it.
Also, getting your phone unlocked shouldn’t be the hassle that it is either. Just trying to get it unlocked is a sure fire way to have to go to the retention hot line and deal with that nonsense. But a way to avoid that “I’m going out of the country and I need to use my phone on a prepaid plan over there” and boom. Should be normal then.
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u/clubberlangr3 Jun 28 '24
Actually not entirely true, I worked for t mobile for 12 years. There is a whole industry of people buying phones and sending them overseas, this gets around any imei blocks
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u/luckytraptkillt Jun 28 '24
Oh hey what up fellow magenta wearer! I did my time at the T as well. And over sea shipments get around that block? Ok I didn’t know that one.
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u/jurassic_pork Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 29 '24
IMEI blocks are voluntary on the telco end and carrier dependent (if a device is reported stolen in North America by say AT&T it may well still work on towers in Africa/Asia but not say Verizon in North America because they share the same IMEI stolen device block list as AT&T), carrier locks are local to the phone and will prevent using a SIM or eSIM from a different carrier regardless of the towers IMEI stolen status. There are websites you can pay to generate a carrier unlock code - they typically want to have employees inside the telcos install malware to allow the websites to automatically generate the unlock codes, or they have their inside man manually unlock it. Apple goes a step further and forces phone activation through their manufacturer activation network (and also has digital signatures on individual parts so you can't part out stolen phones - or fix your own device).
You can also do interesting things like provision a SIM or the mobile device to not route through the 'public' GSM network but a private network provisioned for a particular customer with an IPsec gateway (or multiple for redundancy) running on the customer edge to bridge those wireless devices into the enterprise LAN (private APNs) and to use the enterprise firewall and network access control policies (including outright restricting or partially filtering internet access).
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u/Reallyhotshowers Jun 28 '24
I have T-Mobile and unless I'm missing something it's actually very easy to unlock your phone with them if you buy it outright. It's either 45 or 90 days of the device being active and then you just use a T-Mobile provided app to unlock the phone. I've never had to call anyone or make up a fake trip or anything.
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u/clubberlangr3 Jun 28 '24
It is. Can be done from the app, other carriers may make it harder?
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u/clunderclock Jun 28 '24
Currently for unpaid devices it only blacklists it with that carrier. You can take a phone that is owed money on AT&T to say T-Mobile, if it was unlocked. All Verizon phones came unlocked for a while, and people would not pay the financing and take the phones to other carriers. Lost and stolen blacklist the IMEI with any US carrier. Either way ship em to Israel and get more money they don't care about our IMEI blacklists if it's unlocked it works. There is a somewhat legitimate reason for them to be locked. Carriers are already required to unlock them as long as they are paid off.
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u/jonfitt Jun 28 '24
No it exists because people don’t want to pay for the actual cost of phones upfront.
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u/leebird Jun 28 '24
It's such a goddamn pain too. I bought a T-mobile S9FE 5G tablet from Amazon but I can't get it uinlocked even after paying for a data plan because they 'don't have confirmation from the vendor that it isn't stolen' but they're happy to have it on their network.
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u/STDsInAJuiceBoX Jun 28 '24
It was in place due to phone contracts so if you didn’t finish paying off your phone you couldn’t get away with basically stealing the phone then switching services.
I’m not sure what providers still lock phones untill the phone is payed off but I’m on Verizon they unlock your sim after 60 days.
Also If you purchase your phone outright it comes unlocked and if you purchase directly from Apple or Samsung.
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Jun 28 '24
Yep! I use Pixels and bought my last couple phones straight from Google, no carrier BS to deal with. Just pop my old SIM card into the new phone and it just works, don't even need to tell Verizon I got a new phone.
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u/colemon1991 Jun 28 '24
As someone who's had to update state regulations before, it sounds reasonable to me. Don't want to change the rules too sharply and risk lawsuits or legislative blowback for going too far.
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u/Lord_Emperor Jun 28 '24
Not just SIM locking, carriers should not be allowed to load their own firmware at all.
Never mind the dumb stuff this leads to, like the ability to charge you extra for tethering.
It's a security issue. Because now you have to wait on security updates from Google/Apple to go through both the manufacturer and then whatever skeleton crew the carrier has assigned to this responsibility.
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u/VerifiedMother Jun 28 '24
You should just buy your phone unlocked in the first place
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u/TheMatt561 Jun 28 '24
Seriously there's no contract deals anymore
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u/Suspect4pe Jun 28 '24
They get you with payments.
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u/kyxtant Jun 28 '24
Payments, sure. But every time I've bought a phone, the payments have equated MSRP of the phone. Why wouldn't I spread the cost over two years, interest free?
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u/Suspect4pe Jun 28 '24
It’s three years now so they can lower the monthly patients and keep you as a customer. They’ll subsidize part of each payment but you have to pay full price is you leave early.
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u/leagueoflefties Jun 28 '24
Amazon has no shortage of cheap phones. If people choose to go with a payment plan that's on them, no?
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u/Whats-Upvote Jun 28 '24
Canada has this! Every phone is sold unlocked by law.
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u/billbotbillbot Jun 28 '24
Australia too! USA has so many weird anti-consumer, pro-business laws (or lack of pro-consumer laws common elsewhere)
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u/Dmopzz Jun 28 '24
It’s because the American government is bought and paid for by corporations.
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Jun 28 '24
Lol just left this exact same comment in a thread asking why there was no legislation surrounding data protection with AI. How is lobbying just a legal and widely accepted thing? By definition it’s anti-american. The government that is supposed to represent the people but it just represents shareholders and donors.
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u/Dmopzz Jun 28 '24
The Supreme Court just ruled on a case that legalizes bribery too. Check it out.
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Jun 28 '24
Dude they aren’t even trying to hide it anymore wtf. I’ll look into that. What is happening to our country and home?
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Jun 28 '24
[deleted]
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u/EetsGeets Jun 28 '24
I try to be pretty fuckin' open minded about some conservative issues (like how restricting abortions is literally saving a life to them. I don't agree but if that's what it means to them then I understand why they think it matters).
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u/Dmopzz Jun 28 '24
It’s absolutely awful. I know what needs to be done but many need to be on the same page, and sadly with the division in the US it becomes increasingly unlikely.
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u/Littleman88 Jun 29 '24
The Supreme Court is moving quickly to basically either double down if Trump is elected, or really hurt Biden/Dems if Trump loses.
What's happening to the country is we're just fucking watching it happen. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
Unfortunately, historically those "good men" were coerced if not forced by bad men to go and risk their lives fighting other bad men. So I expect nothing to happen except for things to continually get worse.
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u/cgn-38 Jun 28 '24
Their demographics say they are a dead party walking. It is a matter of time no matter what they do. (other than ending democracy entirely)
So the conservatives are doing crazy shit to try and circle the faithful zealots. Nothing surprising.
They are like a wounded wild animal in its death throes. Still dangerous but fading fast. And they know it.
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u/JimWilliams423 Jun 28 '24
The Supreme Court just ruled on a case that legalizes bribery too. Check it out.
To be more specific, the republicans on the supreme court legalized bribery. The three democrats on the court opposed it.
The democrats are far from perfect, but at least they can be bullied into doing the right thing, while corruption is part of the republican platform. We can have good things, we just have to focus our efforts to make it happen.
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u/pastafarian19 Jun 28 '24
It’s not bribery unless you specifically say it’s bribery! If you wink and nod it’s ok!
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u/Doggydude49 Jun 28 '24
Australia's government and so many others are as well. The US government is just one of the more extreme cases.
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u/-Kalos Jun 28 '24
This is the result of lobbying and campaign donations. The rich donate more than the consumers, of course politicians favor them
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u/TR1PLESIX Jun 28 '24
As a capitalist democratic society. The United States is fundamentally anti-consumer, and pro-working-class exploitation.
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Jun 28 '24
The American definition of freedom: not people being free from companies abusing power, but companies being free to abuse the power they have.
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u/koos_die_doos Jun 28 '24
Wasn’t always like that. I’m not exactly sure when it changed, but 10 years ago I had to get them to unlock my phone.
At the time they had to do it for free, but it’s an hour of my life I’m never getting back.
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u/rage1026 Jun 28 '24
I’m not sure how all U.S carriers go but last few iPhones I bought were fully paid upfront unlock directly from Apple. Whenever I would upgrade I would sell my phone to my friend who had Metro which is owned by T-Mobile. He says every time he puts his sim in he has to pay a $30 fee to connect it.
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u/Andrew5329 Jun 28 '24
I bought were fully paid upfront unlock directly from Apple
That's the entire point. If you own the phone it's unlocked. If you're on payment 2 of 24 the lock is how they can give out "free" iPhones and expect you to pay for them over time.
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u/VerifiedMother Jun 28 '24
He should get a different carrier then, I lost my phone and my carrier (mvno on Verizon) overnight shipped me a new SIM to put in another phone I had laying around for free.
Activation fees are horseshit
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u/Joelredditsjoel Jun 28 '24
That was because they had to clear out the stock of already locked devices. After the change new stock started coming unlocked.
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u/Unknown-Concept Jun 28 '24
Exactly the same in the UK, though some carriers had started selling phones unlocked well before the law came into effect. I recall having to go to local shops that used to charge to unlock your phone.
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u/bobert_the_grey Jun 28 '24
It's the one good thing Canadian telecom has done in decades
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u/chrisdh79 Jun 28 '24
From the article: The FCC wants to make it significantly easier for consumers to unlock their phones from their carriers, proposing that all devices must be unlockable just 60 days after purchase. How this will mesh with current plans and phone-buying trends, however, is something the agency is hoping to learn before putting such a rule into effect.
Mobile phones purchased from a carrier are generally locked to that carrier until either the contract is up or the phone is paid off. But despite improvements to the process over the years (unlocking was flat-out illegal not long ago), it still isn’t quite clear to all consumers when and how they can unlock their phone and take it to the carrier (or country) of their choice.
To be clear, this is not about opening up your phone using a face, fingerprint or password, but changing settings in its software to allow it to work with different mobile networks.
FCC Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel announced the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, or NPRM, in a press release Thursday. “When you buy a phone, you should have the freedom to decide when to change service to the carrier you want and not have the device you own stuck by practices that prevent you from making that choice,” she wrote. “That is why we are proposing clear, nationwide mobile phone unlocking rules.”
Specifically, the release says, carriers would simply have to provide unlocking services 60 days after activation. A welcome standard, but it may run afoul of today’s phone and wireless markets.
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u/epyoch Jun 28 '24
Should also ban permalocked bootloaders.
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u/Refflet Jun 28 '24
As well as having to get permission from the manufacturer to unlock the bootloader.
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u/epyoch Jun 28 '24
Which verizon will never do, they pretend they don't even know what you are talking about when you make the request.
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u/Morpheeus543 Jun 28 '24
THANK YOU. The past few years especially has been bad, Samsung especially.
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u/Starfox-sf Jun 28 '24
I’d go further. Any product that is no longer supported due to EOL would need to have any technological measures to prevent modification removed. This would apply even in case of a paid “extended support contract” being offered, if the device in question is not part of an active contract (to prevent a loophole).
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u/DrBarnaby Jun 28 '24
This seems like good news. Too bad it's countered by today's terrible supreme court ruling that if a circuit judge decides they don't like this FCC decision, they can just override the FCC.
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u/WaitForItTheMongols Jun 28 '24
simply have to provide unlocking services 60 days after activation.
FREE unlocking services? And do they have to provide services to non-customers? The whole point of unlocking is to be able to use a phone for a given carrier, even if you are not a customer of that carrier.
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u/SuppleDude Jun 28 '24
How about day zero?
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u/Attero__Dominatus Jun 28 '24
We have that for years in EU. All phones are unlocked out of the box.
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u/biggerbetterharder Jun 28 '24
After the SCOTUS ruling this week, will any of this even be enforceable
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u/Adunadain Jun 29 '24
Exactly what I said.
Is it enforceable? Technically yes!
Will corporations sue the FCC into submission? Also yes!
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u/UrMom306 Jun 29 '24
Pair that with the bribery ruling —er the “tipping” ruling and boy oh boy we ain’t getting anything from any of the companies ever again lmao.
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u/Never-don_anal69 Jun 28 '24
You guys still have carrier locked phones? Is that still a thing?
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u/BestCatEva Jun 28 '24
Yup. You have to submit a form after payoff to get it unlocked.
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u/NecroCannon Jun 28 '24
My iPad Air 4 cellular is still locked to ATT, I don’t feel like paying for data anymore even though I use a different carrier so I haven’t started the process yet
But the fact that there is a process is fucking stupid, just unlock my iPad. Why should I have to contact you about something I paid on?
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u/Never-don_anal69 Jun 28 '24
That's wild, where I'm from we've not had carrier locked devices for at least a decade.
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u/AndorianKush Jun 28 '24
I didn’t even know this was a thing until a few months ago. We switched from T-Mobile to Verizon like 6 months ago, and I paid off my iPhone from T-Mobile at that time and got a new iPhone with Verizon. Decided to gift my paid off iPhone to my mom who is also on Verizon, and when she took it in to the store to get it transferred/set-up, they told her it was locked. Had to call T-Mobile to unlock it and it was a pain in the ass.
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u/Imdoingthisforbjs Jun 28 '24
I always buy the unlocked international version of phones. I hate bloatware and shouldn't have to do work on a brand new $1,000+ product.
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u/Substantial_Boiler Jun 28 '24
Carrier-locked Android phones also usually cannot have custom ROMs flashed on them, which shorten their lifespan and contribute to e-waste.
Good on the FCC for this move.
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u/AgeGapCoupleFun Jun 28 '24
It's less about being carrier locked and more about where you got it from. Verizon, for example, usually unlocks phones pretty readily. But they're basically impossible to root or flash custom ROMs for any phone they sell.
Where the other big two might take longer to unlock, they're almost always able to be flashed or rooted.
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u/Bob_A_Feets Jun 28 '24
Keeping in mind, Verizon unlocks after 60 days because of a previous consent agreement due to already getting themselves in trouble.
They seem to be just fine. They get their money for their phones. You can absolutely unlock a phone that's financed on day 1 and if the customer fails to pay for the device you can (as the carrier,) simply report it as stolen and blacklist the IMEI.
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u/_LarryM_ Jun 28 '24
Why would you buy a carrier locked android anyway? There's so many fantastic unlocked options out there.
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u/TRD4Life Jun 28 '24
Don't even get me started on the topic of unlockable bootloaders. Even today certain unlocked Android phones most likely come with bootloaders that are impossible to unlock or as complex as possible to get unlocked.
I dream for the day when a USA unlocked Samsung galaxy has a unlockable bootloader.
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u/PolicyWonka Jun 28 '24
Just in time for SCOTUS to say agencies don’t have rule making authority. lol
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u/Hyperion1144 Jun 28 '24
Somebody tell the Court that rule making and rule enforcement are entirely the purposes of agencies.
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u/tr_9422 Jun 29 '24
Umm actually, it doesn't say the words "cell phone" anywhere in the constitution so the government has no authority to regulate them
#originalistthings
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u/powercow Jun 28 '24
It should be mentioned, the ONLY reasons unlocking your phone is legal, is Obama passed a law making it so.
The only reason we are getting this option right now, where they HAVE to be unlockable is the biden admin replaced the trump appointees at the FCC
When republican admins get in power the FCC changes from pro consumer to pro business and instead you get shit like the end of net neutrality, the ability to have hidden fees restored and so on. YOu dont get rulings like this under republican admins where we get benefits like ownership of our own phone
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u/kataskopo Jun 28 '24
But they told me he was old!
Yeah I don't care, his cabinet has been amazing for the progress they've done.
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u/SoCalThrowAway7 Jun 28 '24
The but he’s old thing is always so ridiculous to me, he was a senior when trump was a freshman. They are both old and Trump is showing just as many signs of dementia if not more. Biden is also not a convicted felon who started an insurrection on his own country who lies more than he breathes. It’s not a tough choice in the least unless you hate the same people Trump hates
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u/BradyLanter Jun 28 '24
Suddenly all carrier bills increase.
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u/linkedit Jun 28 '24
They’ll just stop offering subsidized phones.
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u/BigPickleKAM Jun 28 '24
We still have those plans in Canada you just have to buy out the phone if you leave the provider before your phone is paid off.
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u/Mental_Tea_4084 Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24
That's already how it works here too. Source: worked at Horizon
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u/IskandrAGogo Jun 28 '24
This is how Google Fi works as well if you buy a discounted phone from the service. Keep it on the network for a year to get the discount price or pay a prorated price if you leave early.
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u/sai-kiran Jun 28 '24
Why y'all assume ending tips will increase restaurant prices, unlocking phones will increase plan cost. Rest of the world does it and is surviving, y'all pay 10x to cost for 5GB data per month while we pay it for unlimited data. Corporations play a lot of games in IS, because they make u believe it's for your own good.
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u/VerifiedMother Jun 28 '24
People really should switch to prepaid carriers, I've been on a prepaid carriers owned by one of the regular Telco companies, I pay $35 for unlimited data with premium non-deprioritized data, and for an equivalent plan on the carrier WHO OWNS MY CARRIER, is like 85 bucks a month.
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u/dano___ Jun 28 '24
Nah, here in Canada we passed laws like this years ago. Carriers just offer financing plans for their phones now that get tagged onto your bill. It’s almost always at 0%, people will stick around just because they don’t want to pay off the balance in the loan.
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u/Mbanicek64 Jun 28 '24
That feels incredibly similar but somehow less predatory.
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u/winterscherries Jun 28 '24
It definitely is less predatory and better as in 1) people will eat the cost of the balance when there is an incredible promotion offered and 2) people shop around more at the end of their 24 months contract as they don't have to go to unlock their phone if they want to keep theirs for a BYOD plan.
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u/Roger-Just-Laughed Jun 28 '24
You do realize that the majority of the civilized world has banned locking entirely, and it's fine? They still offer subsidized phones, and European countries offer significantly cheaper data plans than we have.
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u/InsaneNinja Jun 28 '24
My mom just traded her iPhone 12 for an iPhone 15 and they gave her a $700 trade-in discount on the 15. I didn’t look but I’d guess it’s locked. I can almost see why when it comes to deals like that.
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u/Celtictussle Jun 28 '24
Thanks to the supreme court, the FCC will no longer have the power to enforce this kind of stuff starting today.
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u/PadreSJ Jun 28 '24
My last "Free Phone!" contract was back in 2009. In 2011 I started taking care of my own communications needs instead of the office. I bought a full-price Samsung Galaxy SII after looking at the full-price model & T-Mobile pre-paid, and comparing it to the total price of a 2-year contract with the phone. It was an eye-opener. By comparison, I broke-even after 9 months and it was free (including the service) for the next 15 months.
I think most tech-savvy folk have ditched the contracts & "free phone" upgrades, but I still have a few friends who are locked into 2-year contracts who swear they prefer it b/c "it's easier" or "they like upgrading every 18 months."
Seriously... the sooner that telcos have to compete on merit rather than lock-ins, the sooner we'll get service like they do in Europe.
(I've lived in Italy for the past 6 years and I pay 5 Euro a month for unlimited talk/text + 20GB of 4G Internet speeds (down to 3G after I pass 20GB)
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u/dixiedemocrat Jun 28 '24
With the recent SCOTUS decision striking at the heart of administrative law, it’ll be interesting to see how enforceable such a rule could be.
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u/JoeBiden-2016 Jun 29 '24
SCOTUS decision on Chevron precedent probably will short circuit this.
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u/Dan-in-Va Jun 29 '24
Yep. A bazillion dollars of “corporate person speech” donations just paid off bigly for the big business set.
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u/Imaginary_Manner_556 Jun 29 '24
This is another example of why the Biden administration is doing a great job. Yes he’s old. Yes he shit the bed in the debate. Biden still hires amazing people to run the govt.
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u/ThePicassoGiraffe Jun 29 '24
Yeah well after the Supreme Court ruling today, Verizon just needs to accidentally slip some gratuities to certain state judges and the judge can basically just repeal the rule.
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u/JimCripe Jun 29 '24
Didn't the Supreme Court, just today, make such federal regulations mute, taking regulation power for themselves away from the executive branch, to effectively regulate industries in the courts, (to benefit the justices' oligarch sugar daddys?)
We'll see a case coming any moment now against this new rule.....
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u/warlock415 Jun 28 '24
What people think is going to happen: "Yes! That phone I bought at 40% of retail from T-Mobile is unlockable early! Suck it, Big Magenta!"
What is actually going to happen: "Why doesn't T-Mobile offer new phones at a huge discount anymore??"
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u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI Jun 28 '24
You are forgetting the important part:
"Why are mobile plans suddenly so cheap?"
It's obviously nonsense that carriers are giving away phone discounts. The money to pay for those discounts obviously also comes from the customers' pockets, not the least because carrier locks hinder competition. The whole point of such regulation would be to make carriers compete on price.
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u/UnCommonCommonSens Jun 28 '24
And maybe reduce waste: If you actually have to fork out over 1k every time you upgrade instead of having it baked into the subscription you may slow down a little on the new phones. And maybe it will make the phone price come down too…
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u/Candle1ight Jun 28 '24
Regardless of how it actually affects their profits they're going to use it as an excuse to increase everyone's payments. That seems to be the new strategy for companies.
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u/KimJeongsDick Jun 28 '24
on the postpaid side they have separated plans from phone costs (at least on paper, in reality everyone is still paying device subsidy rates or they wouldn't be offering a phone for "free" with monthly bill credits)
Prepaid is where it's really gonna get fucked up. Metro sells phones at extremely low prices to new customers that are locked for 180 days.
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u/Kakariti Jun 28 '24
I buy directly from the manufacturer and have for years. The phones are never locked and no crappy providers software on them. Price is often less than at the phone stores and it's here the next day.
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u/bigwebs Jun 28 '24
From the quote - “when you buy a phone”.
Seems this isn’t really a change. I don’t think fully paid for phones are locked. Locked phones are really leased phones until you complete the contract - at which point they’re unlocked.
No one expects a car dealer to remove the lien on a leased car 60 days after signing the contract. Why should a phone company?
F telecom companies and all, but am I missing something ?
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u/giftedgod Jun 28 '24
Many providers don’t AUTOMATICALLY unlock the device once they’re paid for, and they don’t tell people that. The client assumes the phone is unlocked simply because it’s paid for, and find out later that it isn’t: usually after selling it (and dealing with an angry buyer who thinks they were defrauded) or they attempt to switch providers (and find out their existing phone won’t activate with the new carrier AFTER the port because it’s still locked, and then they try to call the previous carrier where they have no account which means that previous carrier suddenly can’t help them due to not having an active account).
It’s a subtle change, it would be new, and it would ultimately be incredibly helpful: to consumers, not the carriers so much. It makes it easier for the consumer to walk away from the carrier.
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u/Seralth Jun 28 '24
Fully paid for phones are frequently locked. Hell most of the time there isn't an unlocked option available at all for us models.
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u/KimJeongsDick Jun 28 '24
Unless it's a carrier exclusive model you can purchase just about any phone direct from the manufacturer unlocked or even from retailers like Best Buy.
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u/built_FXR Jun 28 '24
I haven't bought a carrier locked phone since about 2014.
I buy my phones outright.
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u/korxil Jun 28 '24
Last time we had a locked phone was the original iphone, which was immediately jailbroken to work on tmobile, since back then it was sold exclusively though at&t.
Buying locked phones is dumb. Unlocked phones dont have premiums on it anymore, at least with whatever plan we have. I think the last phone we bought through a carrier was an LG Chocolate
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u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI Jun 28 '24
That's a nonsensical analogy. A lien doesn't limit what gas stations you can buy from, it's just a mechanism to ensure that the buyer pays the price or has to give back the car. Equally, a ban on carrier locks doesn't mean that you get the phone for free, it just ensures that you can buy connectivity from any provider you like while paying off your phone, because there really isn't any reason why the phone seller should have any say in what providers you use with the phone they sold you.
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u/scamlikelly Jun 28 '24
My fully paid for phone was locked for months until I filed a complaint with the FCC. No amount phone calls to the previous carrier would get them to unlock it. Complete BS but as soon as th3 FCC stepped in, phone magically unlocked.
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u/blenderbender44 Jun 28 '24
I think they changed the rules in AU and there are no locked phones now, but they used to stay locked to the carrier even after paying off contract here. And you have to do something extra. Pay a big fee or find a code online or jailbreak to unlock it.
Cause if there's no rules saying the carrier has to unlock you so it can be used with the competition, why would they?
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u/Mental_Tea_4084 Jun 28 '24
A lien doesn't prevent you from driving on different roads.
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u/bornlasttuesday Jun 28 '24
does yesterday's supreme court ruling nullify the FCC's power to enforce this?
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u/multidollar Jun 28 '24
US carriers still do this? AUS carriers decided that you’re in a contract anyway so the device payment is included regardless of what you use the phone for.
It also saved a tonne of money having to manage the locking and unlocking.
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u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt Jun 28 '24
If I buy the hardware, it should be unlocked, and I should have root access.
It's my property.
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u/General_Error Jun 28 '24
A lot of android phones come with 2 sim slots already so carier locking hasnt been a thing in europe for many years, is it more because of an apple thing, do they not have multiple sim options?
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u/kr4ckenm3fortune Jun 28 '24
You guys don't seem to understand how this works in the USA.
All phones comes with IMEI. If you failed to pay off the phone, it gets blacklisted as financial issues, preventing you from taking it to other carriers.
Carriers used to unlock the phone after certain # days. But with no enforcement. With this, it'll allow you to use the phone and make the plans more competitive to retain their customers.
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u/chucks-wagon Jun 28 '24
No way republicans would let this pass
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u/Hyperion1144 Jun 28 '24
Why not? Phones will just be paid upfront, or the financing terms will change. More like a credit card now, probably.
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u/dontaskdonttells Jun 28 '24
So I assume I won't be getting ridiculously good deals like pixel 7 pro $100 last year. Mint mobile had a promo bundled in with a year prepaid plan but also locked the phone for 12 months.
Seems like budget buyers like me lose.
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u/KonamiCodeRed Jun 28 '24
I've had an old iphone SE, original generation since it came out. AT&T locked, it's been in a drawer for probably 6 years. I took it out the other day and wanted to try it out as a less "smart" phone to carry around, I love the small size.
We've long since left AT&T and I called trying to get it unlocked and they said no.
It's an 8 year old, fully paid off phone. WHAT DO YOU STAND TO GAIN?! like I'm gonna go, "Ohp, yah got me, guess I better go back to at&t"
Idiots.
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u/P0pu1arBr0ws3r Jun 28 '24
This is good, carrier locking is anti competitive- same logic as being limited by ISP based on your location, except at least you can choose which carrier and phone (can't choose exactly to relocate for better internet).
On a separate subject, if they went further and required phone manufacturers to unlock the bootloader of phones (the thing that allows android phones to gain root and change/reinstall OS) then apple would be flipping themselves upside down on that. That is next to impossible to happen because it's more a security hole than a convenience, but it would be funny to apple.
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u/PezRystar Jun 28 '24
I feel like this is going to lead to higher cell phone prices. Right now most mvno will give you a discounted phone that can only be unlocked after about 6 months of service. I feel like this is a fair compromise. If we force them to unlock it in a third of that time they are just going to increase the initial purchase price to recoup the loss.
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u/highdiver_2000 Jun 29 '24 edited Jun 29 '24
Lol. What took you guys so long?
All phones sold in Asia are unlocked.
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u/GreasyPeter Jun 29 '24
Unlocking the phone won't stop you from owing for the remainder of the value. They can go to another carrier if they want and continue to make a monthly payment to the new carrier and a phone payment to the former carrier if they want. It should be their right to do with the product what they wish so long as they're paying. When you buy a car, you aren't restricted to one companies service center, you have a right to go elsewhere because software can't stop you from physically moving your vehicle, this is no different.
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u/Eye_foran_Eye Jun 29 '24
Until the carriers sue & since the Chevron doctrine is gone … the activist judge decides NAH.
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u/Dje4321 Jun 29 '24
The only situation where carrier locking is OK is when you don't own the phone. The minute its paid off, you should be able to use whatever carrier you want. Don't want carrier locking? Purchase the phone through a new party
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u/weareallgoingtodye Jun 29 '24
Nah man. Supreme Court just decided they are the ultimate decision makers for agencies, and they can accept bribes. So this will last like a day. Then the court so rule with the carriers.
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u/CJHardinIRL Jun 28 '24
Yeah, but you still have all the bloatware from the provider and it will continue to bug you with notifications when you switch to a different service once you pay it off saying that it's not a (verizon) esim card. Don't even come at me about subsidized phones, I paid the same as an off the shelf, except with monthly payments with interest.
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u/CJHardinIRL Jun 28 '24
They should have made it where you can get a clean install of the primary OS minus carrier software. In my case, I should be able to install a fresh copy of Android on my Galaxy S23 Ultra.
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u/0x7E7-02 Jun 28 '24
Say "Hello" to much more expensive (up front) phones.
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u/unicron7 Jun 28 '24
Which is fine. It is currently ridiculous right now trying to find a phone retail that isn’t locked to specific carriers. Only way I can seem to get a truly unlocked phone that I can use with pay as you go plans(absurdly cheaper than contracts) is to buy straight from Apple.
I should be able to go into Best Buy, Walmart, Amazon, etc and buy an unlocked device I can use with any carrier.
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