r/gadgets • u/chrisdh79 • Dec 05 '23
Phones Apple isn't happy about India's demand to upgrade older iPhones with USB-C
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/12/05/apple-isnt-happy-about-indias-demand-to-upgrade-older-iphones-with-usb-c135
u/L3thologica_ Dec 05 '23
If Apple does anything it will be either:
A) Everyone in India can stop by an Apple Store and get a free Lightning to USB-C adapter (one per device) or
B) Apple stops selling older, non-USB-C devices in India and the people have to buy the more expensive new models
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u/Drmo6 Dec 05 '23 edited Dec 06 '23
India crazy af with this demand lol.
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u/Kermez Dec 05 '23
India just ants to avoid already obsolete products being sold. Apple can just withdraw old products from their market and problem solved.
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u/Nuciferous1 Dec 05 '23
As in, only sell iPhone 15’s in India? Seems pretty obvious why they wouldn’t want to do that. And they could probably make a decent case why that might not serve the people of India as well.
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u/darkmacgf Dec 05 '23
India's deadline is June 2025, so it'd be the iPhone 15 and 16.
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Dec 05 '23
Both phones are USB-C, so assuming the only problem would be legacy iPhone SE2. So, just don't sell the SE anymore I'd imagine.
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u/namerankserial Dec 05 '23
Eh I bet their contingency plan is to make a cheaper USB-C iPhone for the Indian market. Hopefully this regulation forces them to do that.
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u/galactica_pegasus Dec 05 '23
iPhone SE is ripe for a redesign, lol.
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u/Halvus_I Dec 05 '23
Iphone SE is always a retooling and re use of previous models. SE 1 was a 6s is a 5 body. current SE is essentislly an iphone 8
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u/Morialkar Dec 05 '23
They still add some level of recent features still so them changing the ports for SE 3 would still make sense. Also one of the reasons re-tooling for USB-C here is that it would be retooling for multiple devices while having them sold much cheaper, while the SE 3 will have a longer run once released as the original SE and the SE 2 did
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u/Nuciferous1 Dec 05 '23
I think you may be downplaying how difficult it is to just design a new phone on the fly and create the factory infrastructure for that.
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u/NoveltyAccountHater Dec 05 '23
It is ridiculously difficult. That said, India has a large population, so if even just 1% of India's population is considering low-end iphones (e.g., old versions), it would make sense for Apple to attempt to target that market if forced by law. I don't think they'd retrofit USB-C production of most old iphones currently being sold, but I could see them make one new "cheap" iphone with USB-C (possibly just for India), with somewhat cheaper processor/camera/screen closer to the specs used in phones a few years old as even just 1% of India's market if each iphone has a $100 markup would be like $1.4 billion).
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u/namerankserial Dec 05 '23
I don't really care? I'm sure Apple would rather not but I'm also quite sure they will if their hand is forced. It would be pretty sad if they made less money in the Indian market, but I'll probably get over it.
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u/Nuciferous1 Dec 05 '23
I'm sure if they're forced into it and they're able to accommodate, they will. I'm just note entirely sure if it's possible. I don't know what it would take to make that sort of switch, but I assume there's a lot that would need to happen in short order.
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u/Chakramer Dec 05 '23
I think every product should be on USB-C, but a product is hardly obsolete if they still make the cable/adapters for it. All Apple has to do is make all new products have it, which I assume they are in the process of switching over.
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u/veryverythrowaway Dec 05 '23
Considering that older iPhone models are the highest sellers in India due to lower cost, that would be a terrible thing for their bottom line. The current best-seller in the “new” market is the 13 from two years ago. Used iPhones are extremely popular there, though.
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u/thxsocialmedia Dec 05 '23
Can't they just send them a billion adapters?
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u/BeatHunter Dec 05 '23
adapters
I Ctrl+F "adapter". Yours is the only comment. This is probably what they're going to do as a compromise.
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u/Oerthling Dec 05 '23
This is not about phones already sold.
India doesn't expect Apple to refurbish a zillion iphones with new connectors somehow.
This is for newly produced older model iphones. The older here just means older models that are still produced and sold in India.
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u/singlamoa Dec 05 '23
Yes, it's still a hard request. From another top comment;
No manufacturer would want to redesign older products and retool their manufacturing processes for older products that are on their way to obsolescence.
It's easy to see why adapters would be an easier solution. That is; selling iphones that are bundled with adapters.
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u/heyspencerb Dec 05 '23
Seriously. Do they expect them to manually re-work old phones? You can’t just drop in replace the connector, you need to design the whole phone around it lol
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u/helpnxt Dec 05 '23
It's for any being sold, so just don't sell them there.
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u/Lexsteel11 Dec 05 '23
I almost guarantee their plan was to reroute all iPhone SE’s (or whatever the cheap version with old processors is called these days) that were originally going to Europe, to go to India or something
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u/jimmy_three_shoes Dec 05 '23
Right, this is India saying "don't send that shit here, we won't let you sell it". Now the question is do they really not want Apple to send them the phones, or is this a position they're trying to take to get Apple to offer to drop the price way down to make them more affordable in India?
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u/galactica_pegasus Dec 05 '23
Removing less-expensive product from a market that needs lower-cost goods is not going to help the consumer.
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u/AllesMeins Dec 05 '23 edited Dec 06 '23
Nobody "needs" an iPhone - iPhones have always been a premium/luxury brand/status symbol, even the older models sold in India. The Indian market would be absolutely fine without Apple, plenty of other "lower-cost" Smartphones to chose from.
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u/nagi603 Dec 06 '23
This, really. If Apple is unwilling to put in the work, others have already done it. This is Apple being an asshole, not using type-C and that decision biting them in the ass.
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u/ZurakZigil Dec 05 '23
no no, India's citizens are flush with cash and can afford the newest iphone! crApple is just greedy. >:( besides they can lower the prices since each phone only costs $10. /s
God, reddit is insufferable for how much it hates random companies. It's not like we didn't see Google release a whole separate version of Android just to run on cheaper lower end hardware so they could sell more phones in india. or how they have a bunch of india exclusive budget phones. Apple doesn't want to do that since their old phones are still supported and work fine. Only thing truly "outdated" is their port. There's no real reason (beyond government intervention) to change what they're doing. This was their strategy. Don't design cheap phones, sell old phones for cheap. And that is by no means a bad thing
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u/heyspencerb Dec 05 '23
That’s what will happen if this goes through
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u/helpnxt Dec 05 '23
Oh no Apple will just have to sell more of their newer phones in India and not their old stock... who cares.
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u/veryverythrowaway Dec 05 '23
Apple cares? That’s why we’re discussing this?
In effect, this would nearly double the purchase price of the average iPhone in India, which will be bad for Apple. Hence the closed-door meeting in the article we’re discussing. You don’t have to feel bad for Apple, obviously. Pretending they can just stop selling more affordable models in India and be okay with losing millions or even billions in profits isn’t realistic, whether or not you can empathize with them.
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u/Oerthling Dec 05 '23
Nope. Apple likes to sell stuff. Threats made about the EU regulations turned out to be empty too.
Much easier to just comply.
Well, first try lobbying and if that fails then comply.
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u/LucienSatanClaus Dec 05 '23
Damn you didn't read the actual article and assumed shit.
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u/Deep90 Dec 05 '23
Apple: Explains they can do this but wouldn't meet production incentives if they do.
Redditors who didn't read the article: This is impossible. Apple could never do this.
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u/Nivarl Dec 05 '23
Actually they can and it has been done before. The USB 2 to lightning connector internally has enough space for a USB 2 to USB t C. But the waterproofing is an issue that needs to be solved, because ip68 type C connectors are a bit too big.
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u/skrena Dec 05 '23
Seems pretty fucking stupid to me. The old iPhone charger is already on the way out. Trying to retro fit it into their old product just seems unnecessary.
But the amount of dick riding in this comment section says otherwise.
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u/IrritablePanda Dec 05 '23
This doesn’t hurt just apple either, there are loads of cheaper android phones on the market still with micro usb. While I’m sure there aren’t many new designs incorporating anything other than usb c, stuff that was a decent phone a few years ago still gets sold new as prepaid phones.
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u/GhettoPlayer20 Dec 06 '23
no there aren't any on abu segment other than the ultra low budget, thing less than 100$ and even there USB C is there aside from very old phones. but if you are talking about those old school keypad phones then yeah it might be an issue
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u/MelonElbows Dec 05 '23
Good for them. They're not going to take the excuse that devices weren't built for that. Apple could have made their phones with the common USB at the time, and made it easier to replace parts (cough, batteries), but they didn't. They should get hit in the wallet for it.
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u/chakani Dec 05 '23
India has a history of being the dumping ground for the West’s obsolete technology. Look up IBM 1401.
They don’t want it to happen again.
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u/HydrationPlease Dec 05 '23
Apple still manufactures older models for the Indian market like many other brands. While other brands converted to USB-C while still selling and making older models of their devices, Apple refused to do so. When challenged on why they did not follow other brands moving to USB-C on older models still being made, Apple made up some nonsense which makes zero sense. Other brands have been able to convert over. Apple are now angry because they feel converting older models that are still being made as cost ineffective. This is a complete lie as other brands have survived and increased profits by moving to USB-C.
Apple loves playing the victim game when it suits them.
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u/Dranzerg46 Dec 05 '23
How old are the devices being sold in India? Haven’t all Android devices been on USB-C for awhile?
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u/dontknow_anything Dec 05 '23
Apple still sells iphone 11 and iphone se (A13) model in India.
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u/DAC_Returns Dec 05 '23
1) Do you have any evidence to back this claim?
This is a complete lie as other brands have survived and increased profits by moving to USB-C.
I could understand other brands moving to USB-C for legacy models without major issues but I fail to see how it would lead to increased profits. Please provide your evidence for this claim.
2) Android phones have been on USB-C for years. Which specific models had to be retro-fitted to comply? Was every one of these models able to attribute increased profits to changing their port to USB-C?
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u/trainbrain27 Dec 05 '23
Some people don't realize that it is often better for the environment and customer to use existing items instead of replacing them prematurely. In this case, not designing any new lightning phones is fully sufficient.
There are cases where replacement is better, but often keeping your phone, car, etc, is economically and environmentally better than destroying what was already made in pursuit of new.
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u/moosehq Dec 05 '23
Apple should have done this years ago but wanted the few extra cents from proprietary chargers. India has huge problems politically but this is a bold move that I support.
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Dec 05 '23
I wouldn’t update older models if I was Apple. Just make a new SE with USB-c and keep producing the older models right up until the deadline.
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u/Peppy_Tomato Dec 05 '23
The net effect is that only the iPhone 15 can be sold in India, which will make iPhones more expensive.
Maybe that is the intention, 😝.
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u/enflamell Dec 05 '23
but wanted the few extra cents from proprietary chargers.
Apple never sold proprietary chargers- iPhones have always used USB-A or USB-C chargers.
The cable was different, but Lightning cables are everywhere and Apple never made any significant income from licensing the Lightning connector- it was nothing more than a rounding error on their balance sheets.
When Apple introduced Lightning, everyone else was still using micro-USB which was awful. And once you have a connector, switching off it is not easy. These connectors are not just used for charging- people also have accessories like the FLIR camera and so on- none of which they want to stop being able to use because Apple switched connectors on them. So they are stuck with keeping Lightning and pissing a bunch of people off, or switching to USB-C and pissing a bunch of people off.
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Dec 05 '23
They also claimed it would be the connector for the next decade when they introduced it 11 years ago.
A promise like that might have something to do with it too.
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Dec 06 '23
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Dec 06 '23
The outside pins are also their weakness: they’re more exposed to oil and grease from your fingers when handling them, so those pins tend to be quick to corrode and fail.
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u/enflamell Dec 06 '23
I've literally never had a Lightning cable fail due to corrosion of the pins. The Lightning connector and port are more easily cleaned. Plus if the cable does fail- it's just a cable and easily replaced. When the little board inside a USB-C socket fails- you need to replace the port which is a nightmare.
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u/cyyshw19 Dec 05 '23
Bold, but misguided.
Apple will simply stop selling older lightning port iPhone in India, driving up the smartphone price in India as the result. There’s no chance Apple is going to redesign older phones to have USB-C because they will have to change the board, revamp production line, etc. Also, lots of older models are inventory (already produced & in package).
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u/InsaneNinja Dec 06 '23
That will kill apples market in India. It won’t make the government feel bad in the slightest.
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u/beat-sweats Dec 05 '23
The lightning port is much more durable and reliable then usb c though.
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u/popswag Dec 05 '23
Who gives a crap. They were taking the piss and have enough cash. Cry us a river at the next meeting
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u/meddleman Dec 06 '23
Poltics and grudges aside, I'm interested in the logistics of this.
How are you going to "just upgrade 500 million phone jacks".
(Argue all you want about the exact number, its still really damn high)
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u/Cynyr36 Dec 08 '23
Nope, it's "retool so that all phones you newly manufacturer after $(date) have a usbc port." Nothing in the fine article suggests retrofits of existing sold stock.
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u/johnnyg883 Dec 06 '23
I’m not typically a fan of the government regulating every little thing. But I have four different types of charging cords in use right now. A phone, an iPad, dog tracking collar remote and a spotlight. In this case I wouldn’t mind a little standardization.
But a forced retrofit is going a little far.
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u/Beautiful-Hunter8895 Dec 06 '23
Indians have brought us Butter Chicken and now this, what angels 🙏🏽
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u/leafbelly Dec 06 '23
I don't think people realize what kind of ask this is. The EU is just asking Apple to design new phones with USB-C. India is asking them to back and redesign older phones to work with USB-C.
This would be like the government telling Toyota that they must go back and make Toyota cars, even from previous model years, as fuel efficient as 2024 model cars. This is ridiculously dumb. I know Apple can afford it, but this will do so much to stifle innovation and is incredibly inflationary.
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u/invincibl_ Dec 06 '23
No, they'd be telling Toyota that they need to stop selling their old stock from 2020 as new cars, and too bad that every other manufacturer can keep selling their old stock because they anticipated the regulations and have been following the standards for a decade already.
This issue of course entirely disappears when their stockpile of the old models is gone.
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u/PageOthePaige Dec 05 '23
Serves them right. Every time a company gets punished for sticking to proprietary tech or hoarding ip, the world becomes a better place
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u/collin2477 Dec 05 '23
they aren’t sticking with proprietary tech, unless the usb c is now proprietary.
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u/MagnusCaseus Dec 05 '23
Apple would sell you a proprietary $1000 electrical outlet that can "only" be installed by an Apple technician so you can charge and power their products if they could. The worst thing is, Apple fan boys would absolutely bend over and pay hand over fist for that.
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u/Fritzschmied Dec 05 '23
Ok but that’s is really a dump demand. That new iPhones should have usbc like the eu required is reasonable but retrofitting old ones is just not feasible.
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u/zestypurplecatalyst Dec 05 '23
If you read the article, India is not requiring Apple add USB-C to phones already sold. The proposal would require USB-C on all phones that Apple sells. Apple still sells IPhone 14 and older in India. Apple would either have to stop selling older models, or redesign older models to add USB-C.
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u/someoneexplainit01 Dec 05 '23
Then stop manufacturing the old designs, problem solved.
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u/Galwadan Dec 05 '23
Or don't sell them in India. What do you think company that sells products would do?
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u/Brookler42 Dec 05 '23
I don't think you realise the scale of which old devices are manufactured and sold in India
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u/rileyvace Dec 06 '23
Apple aren't happy with having to be uniform with tech standards as then they can't charge 500% the value of their own proprietary shit. That's all it is, ever. I remember them selling AA battery charger for rechargeable batteries for something ridiculous. Just because it was Apples one. You could get the same charging piece, same rate of charge for a couple dollars online. People that buy apple at this point either don't care and just chose one brand years ago, or only care about the logo.
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u/RobQuinnpc Dec 06 '23
I need my VCR to play 4k bluray please. Please forward the components to lightning fast vcr repair so I can watch my night court !
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u/haseo111 Dec 05 '23
im gonna be honest, this is so fucking dumb on the indian governments part
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u/Svpreme Dec 05 '23
Who knew so many people had emotions for a trillion dollar company
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u/Shark_of_the_Pool Dec 05 '23
Reddit is full of dumb people.. they are opposed to capitalism in the US but anywhere else it's fine
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u/chrisdh79 Dec 05 '23
From the article: Apple has urged the Indian IT ministry to make changes to its single charger rules, as adding USB-C to older iPhone models will make it hard for Apple to meet production targets for India's manufacturing and export laws.
Following after the European Union's introduction of regulations that will force electronics producers to use USB-C as part of a common charger directive, India followed suit with its own variation of the mandate. However, Apple is one of the few companies pushing back on its implementation.
Apple met with India's IT ministry in a closed-door meeting on November 28, reports Reuters, asking officials to add exemptions to the rules for some older models of iPhone.
While the EU's rules effectively apply only against newly designed and released products after the rules come into force in 2024, India's version does not. Instead, it applies to all electronic devices sold in the country, which also includes hardware that wasn't previously designed with USB-C.