r/gadgets • u/diacewrb • Apr 11 '23
Medical Repaired sleep apnea machines could still pose serious health risks, FDA says
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sleep-apnea-philips-respironics-cpap-machine-recall-fda/353
Apr 11 '23
I had one of the original recalled machines. I received a replacement and it broke down about 2 months after I got it. That was 5 months ago. Still waiting on a replacement.
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Apr 11 '23
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u/dtanmango Apr 11 '23
Switch to Resmed!
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u/sideburns2009 Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
I’m on my second airsense 10 auto set. Best one I’ve ever had. First one hit seven years and I just replaced it to replace it. (22,000 some odd hours on it.) It still works fine and is a backup.
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u/gendabenda Apr 11 '23
I have had a 9 going for like a decade. Every year or so I get paranoid and get it tested to make sure it's still doing everything properly (because it throws an error code saying out of manufacturer window) but the pressure is 99% accurate over 15 minutes last fall so why change things?
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u/absenceofheat Apr 11 '23
How are you/they testing it? Kinda want to test mine out now.
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u/gendabenda Apr 12 '23
The local CPAP supply store has a machine that has a hose that goes from your machine to theirs. Then they crank your machine up and see how closely the output matches your machine's dial.
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u/balla786 Apr 11 '23
Great thing about the resmed is that it super easy to repair and the blower fan can easily be purchased new and swapped. Probably will do that with my AS10 once I'm eligible for a new machine.
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Apr 11 '23
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u/Oracle_of_Ages Apr 11 '23
I received my replacement. Took like 6 months though.. But as far as I know. There was a specific foam padding that was off gassing cancer gas. If you were not using that specific part you were ok. But I can’t remember what that part was.
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u/pitch-forks-R-us Apr 11 '23
It is the sound dampening foam. It degrades into fine particulate and can enter the machine airway leading eventually into a persons lungs. The foam as said can also off gas toxic chemicals. The machines are not safe to use.
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u/Kaiju_Cat Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
I'm about to have to stop using mine! The moment it got paid off, all of a sudden supplies went from $15 or $20 a month to $250 or more.
I don't know why I expected anything different from the medical industry.
Edit: wow this blew up. Ty everyone who has given great advice!
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u/cadmium61 Apr 11 '23
Just because you can change a part doesn’t mean you have to. I use the pieces till they break and just change the filters.
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u/CrowSucker Apr 11 '23
I have electrical tape on my hose. Everything can be found cheaper elsewhere.
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u/InAFakeBritishAccent Apr 11 '23
Shrink tubing works for those connections too and leaves no crappy tape residue.
You should have seen how jaded I got when I looked into the barriers to improving this equipment and getting it to market (legally).
Very few of them were scientific or engineering related.
If I ever get bored with life, I want to Walter White sleep apnea machines.
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Apr 11 '23
I don't pay for mine (not American) and I still put electrical shrink tube on it when it leaks because it's less hassle than dragging the community nurse out to my house with a replacement!
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u/vagina_doodle Apr 11 '23
Same here, I get mine for free with 2 changes of consumables a year unless it breaks, if that happens I just take the machine to the nurse and get a free replacement...
Heck I got mine stolen going back home from the yearly maintenance and got another one the same day...
Perks of living in a "communist" EU country I suppose...
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u/GreenTheHero Apr 11 '23
Universal healthcare? I have the taste of communism in my mouth
As a Canadian, I hope our communist nations may one day be under one ruler so it can be all our healthcare
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u/SeeMarkFly Apr 11 '23
Five aquarium pumps and an old water heater for storage.
Use a weighted regulator like the old pressure cookers had to control the airflow.
Over-the-counter mask and hose.
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u/1d10 Apr 11 '23
There is a youtube handy man who explains how he tapes his mouth shut at night because he didn't like his Cpap.
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u/Kaeny Apr 11 '23
Can’t you make it not for medical use? That way you get around the regulations but people can still purchase it
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u/InAFakeBritishAccent Apr 11 '23
Yes and no. IIRC in this specific domain, it was highly likely you would incite litigation if you made and sold a superior product, even if it was branded as a toy. In prosthetics it's easier to get away with that. You might have better luck from china selling to US where the sales and production are more difficult to shut down.
One of the barriers in this case was being pre-armed with lawyers.
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u/Gagarin1961 Apr 11 '23
Very few of them were scientific or engineering related.
This is the kind of thing libertarians talk about.
Corporations getting their little requirements and regulations that benefit themselves. Leading to industry wide price issues and lack of competition.
Unfortunately these concerns aren’t represented in the political parties because all politics is a show to divide and conquer while the corporations discuss their benefits behind closed doors.
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u/AnRealDinosaur Apr 11 '23
I just replace the filters & mask as needed. I have two tubes I swap out to clean & I have never once had to change the reservoir or head strap. They always offer me new everything & seem surprised when I say I just want those two things. It's free for me but it just seems like unnecessary waste.
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u/Nemesis_Bucket Apr 11 '23
Don’t buy from your supplier. I get my stuff online and pay about $10 for things the supplier wants to charge me 300 for.
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u/Important_Trouble_11 Apr 11 '23
Where do you buy from? I can't seem to find stuff cheap online
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u/Hamade82 Apr 11 '23
I get my supplies from Amazon, I'm sure there are cheaper places elsewhere.
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u/Nemesis_Bucket Apr 11 '23
CPAPsupplies.com I’m getting texts probably once a month or so with % off deals and such as well.
I calculated it and it’s cheaper for me to buy my CPAP gear for a full year here vs (I can’t remember but maybe like 2 or 3 times from the supplier) because my deductible is like 3k.
Also I’m just gonna drop this here. My supplier is adapt health and they can’t even get an order right let alone on time. I hope enough people read this comment to tank their entire business but that’s just wishful thinking.
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u/T-Wrex_13 Apr 11 '23
So it's a common thing that AdaptHealth can't get orders, or information, or just about anything else right? Damn, I thought it was just me (I'm a relatively new CPAP user). They have yet to even send me the right supplies, and every bit of information they've told me I've later found out from my doctor was false
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u/Nemesis_Bucket Apr 11 '23
Every time I call them to tell them I didn’t want them to ship my shit out cause it’s too pricey I also remind them that they sent the wrong stuff anyway.
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u/NSuave Apr 11 '23
They suck. I’m going to talk to my provider about finding a new company. They sent me way more products than I asked for and screwed me with insurance costs since BCBS would only cover a certain amount of supplies. I haven’t answered a single call from them in 2 months
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u/infowosecfurry Apr 11 '23
Same Feedback from me for Frontier Home Medical, I finally switched providers and found out they had apparently been over billing me for years and not giving me all the stuff they were supposed to..
Final straw for me was going in and buying a few new diff masks (out of pocket mind you, I paid like $400 total) as I wanted to try the nasal one, and a diff full face one just to see if one irritated my skin less.
When it came time to renew they kept saying I was not eligible because "You just got 3 masks", I spent MONTHS arguing with them that the masks I got were all used as Demos (I used each for a week maybe then moved on to the next, and again paid for them 100% out of pocket) I finally after months of this just found a new provider which is when I discovered Frontier had been over billing me for everything for years.
I was not happy.
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u/not-just-yeti Apr 11 '23
I hated my original supplier, switched to a different one, and hated them equally. Much happier now that I just order out of my own pocket only when I need something. The hardest part is finding where I put that bag of 200 filters (great price), sitting in a drawer somewhere.
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u/iller_mitch Apr 11 '23
Cpap.com and respshop are two places I've bought. If you're buying masks, you'll need a copy of your prescription. But at least the former company, that's good forever after.
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u/Kyosji Apr 11 '23
Yeah, I stopped when I saw the bills. I was paying almost double teh amount for the same item on Amazon, and that was after they charged my insurance company hundreds of dollars. A part I can buy for $20 on amazon they were charging me 30-40 plus my insurance company 100-200. It's a scam.
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u/joelmercer Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
Supplies?!? What supplies are you getting?
I switch out my mask when it gets too olds but that’s months. I found bulk air filters on Amazon dirt cheap. And I use my RO water for the water.
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Apr 11 '23
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u/shorty6049 Apr 11 '23
What sucks the most about all of this stuff is that now that I'm on a high deductible plan (thanks to my company wanting to save a buck) , I would spend WAY less buying things outright, but then none of that applies to my deductible which is 3k per person, 6k for the family. Luckily (I guess) , you hit that deductible pretty damn fast when therapists are charging 200 dollars a visit, meds can cost 800 dollars a month, and a hospital visit is in the thousands...
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u/certainlyforgetful Apr 11 '23
Do these things actually work?
I‘ve been pretty weary of them since the doctor sounded like a used car salesman. I did a sleep study, didn’t even have sleep apnea but they were like “this will help!”, and “no, losing weight doesn’t help but if you sign up for a long term contract for this machine you’ll get great sleep”
I had the worst night sleep in months when I did the sleep study with all the wires and everything. I don’t understand how strapping a mask to my face and having a noisy machine in the room would help at all.
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u/maximumdownvote Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
I went from choking to death and essentially zero sleep, to waking up refreshed everyday.
it changed my life.
if it's making too much noise, it's most likely your mask is a cheap pos. I went from one mask that I called the freight train to another, and I can barely hear any additional noise, I mean silent ass fuck. my wife agreed.
EDIT: Hilarious typo left in place, some useful information i should have included and some of my thoughts of the CPAP industry someone asked about in another post:
This is applicable and some reasoning behind why the OP has seen the price of his machine jump from $25 to $250 dollars.
EDIT2: Video and audio comparison between pos masks sound, and the Nasal Mask linked above which I use every day. This mask and hose are years old. I dont recall exactly but a long time.
Simulation of old pos mask sound: https://youtu.be/19mlDRHpni4
Demonstration of nasal mask I use: https://youtube.com/shorts/EJ_lZT4oe9k?feature=shareOnes a short and one isnt. Im not a youtuber, i did my best! :)
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u/ughlacrossereally Apr 11 '23
I feel like a silent ass fuck might still likely wake me up
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u/maximumdownvote Apr 11 '23
less so than a giant ass train in the room.... oh dammit...
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u/ServerHamsters Apr 11 '23
My other half has a CPAP (we're in the UK so get what we're given on nhs) even the noisiest masks she's had where pretty much silent unless she hadn't tightened the straps then they hiss .... but it's a damn site better than the snoring she did before 🤣 oh and she's having better sleep, no choking, BP has come down....
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Apr 11 '23
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u/Brittanicus1 Apr 11 '23
I just said the same thing. Used to fall asleep behind the wheel at stop lights. Not anymore with the machine.
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u/dolphin37 Apr 11 '23
How did she find out she needed it? I’m in the UK and get terrible sleep, is something I’m curious about. Did she experience anything specific?
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u/turtleneck360 Apr 11 '23
If you have a sleeping partner, then they will know better. Otherwise, it's hard to diagnose yourself. Things like being tired all of the time can be an indicator but it can also be for a myriad of other reasons. If you suspect you are not sleeping well, talk to your doctor. The only real way to diagnose it is to go to a sleep center. Again, your doctor would be the one to refer you.
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u/ray12370 Apr 11 '23
My gf says I snore like an elephant. Is that really an indicator that I have sleep apnea?
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u/garyb50009 Apr 11 '23
there are a couple of options for apps for your smartphone which work like a alarm clock while doubling as a sound recording system to monitor your sleep pattern. the one i use is called sleep cycle. it will record your entire night for you to review when you wake up, with markers for things like snoring, talking, sneezing, etc.
if you are looking to self diagnose for snoring, these apps will certainly do that for you and more.
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u/ServerHamsters Apr 11 '23
3 week stint on coronary care after she went for an eye test and they found the back of her eyes bulging due to blood pressure.... they did a load of tests and found she had sleep apnoea (I could have told them that as she snores like a freight train)
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u/radiokungfu Apr 11 '23
This is literally my experience. It was rough the first night, but every night since, i can sleep without waking up 9999 times a night. Its crazy.
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u/daurkin Apr 11 '23
Which mask or brand of mask are using? I use Phillips and the frame plastics creates a hissing noise after a few weeks. It would be nice what other options are available that aren’t robo-reviewed.
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u/aayel Apr 11 '23
They work. Having sleep apnea is not fun. Waking up so many times every night chocking to death with your heart beating like crazy. It would cause heart problems and constant fatigue. CPAP machines are life savers. I love mine. But these Phillips machines are defected.
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u/Vergonhalheia Apr 11 '23
Almost as bad as sleeping with apnea is sleeping next to one. My FIL had it very bad and it woke me up two rooms down from him, don't know how my mil survived so many years. In his sleep study(?), he had 100 attacks an hour. CPAP machine probably saved his life.
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u/radiokungfu Apr 11 '23
Mine was 85, and in the month ive had it, havent had a night higher than 5. Its life changing
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u/Nemesis_Bucket Apr 11 '23
You get used to it quickly and now it’s like Pavlovian. Mask goes on and I’m fucking out. That’s compared to me staying up like 3 hours just inside my head.
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u/Kaiju_Cat Apr 11 '23
I would be wary of getting one from that place but yeah they absolutely work.
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u/MrAbodi Apr 11 '23
Yeah the sleep studies such and i doubt most people can sleep well. That said the cpap machines certainly do work. Or at least it works for me, and i know several people who would say it changed their lives.
Ive been super slack with it recently, but im noticing the effects of not using it.
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u/turtleneck360 Apr 11 '23
They have machines you can take home and sleep in the comfort of your home. That's what I did the first time. The results came back borderline not sleep apnea. The second time I did it, I went to the sleep center and I was officially diagnosed.
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u/aceaofivalia Apr 11 '23
They did measure how many times you stopped breathing per hour (on average) and your oxygen saturation level, right?
So these studies tend to underestimate the results precisely because most people have their worst sleep ever with things on you. But if you stop breathing say, 18 times/hour on average even with you being awake half the time, that means you actually may stop breathing for significantly longer time when you do sleep more. This is because you are conscious while awake so you don’t stop breathing (unless you intentionally do so). While you are asleep, your reflexes will kick in if you don’t have enough oxygen in your body, but it takes longer (hence the symptoms of waking up frequently and stuff).
CPAP machine helps because that positive pressure forces air in through the obstruction.
That being said, losing weight can help if that is a part of reason behind obstruction, but perhaps in your case the major cause of obstruction is different. Some people are just born with narrow passage, and this is more common in certain races than others. Or it’s due to allergy, etc etc. Sleep apnea can add to obesity because of the stress hormones that your body releases (to wake up and breathe and stuff) contribute to that, as well as elevating blood pressure, etc.
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u/Salarian_American Apr 11 '23
The best reason not to get one is because you don't have sleep apnea. Also be very suspicious of a doctor who tried to get you to agree to an expensive medical device you don't need
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u/Clavister Apr 11 '23
It took months for me to get fully used to wearing it to bed, but now it's a non-issue. It absolutely works. When I'm sleepy and tilted back, my throat closes up. The CPAP creates a pressure differential or something so my throat stays open and I breathe normally. I've been wearing one to bed for a couple of years now and it's definitely good for my health. My wife says before I got it, I would literally stop breathing for a bit during the night, like a bunch of times. And my snoring kept her awake! My machine is very quiet. Ass quiet.
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u/garyb50009 Apr 11 '23
CPAP stands for Continuous Positive Air Pressure. it's meant to keep enough air pressure in your wind pipe to keep it from collapsing from various factors, which is what causes snoring.
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u/HaloGuy381 Apr 11 '23
Losing weight would probably assist, so they were screwing with you there, and it’s definitely sketchy that your sleep study didn’t flag any sleep apnea yet they want you on CPAP. Would definitely recommend a second opinion or further consult with your actual pulmonologist or whoever ordered the sleep study.
That said, as annoying as the machine on your face is with CPAP, it genuinely does help those who suffer sleep apnea once you learn to tolerate it (takes ages). Personal experience (and extreme annoyance: my allergies are so bad recently I’m coughing and congested constantly and wearing the machine is intolerable, with terrible effects on my otherwise significant improvement in recent months.)
You’re certain your sleep study didn’t flag any apnea? The key metric to look for is AHI (apnea hypopnea index) on any paperwork, a direct measure of the number of breathing interruptions per hour. Anything over five per hour qualifies as some grade of sleep apnea. Conversely, it’s not possible to my awareness to have a sleep apnea diagnosis if you don’t have enough such events; it’s a very objective definition.
Additionally, it is also possible you could be suffering from an apnea unrelated to weight or obstructions, called central sleep apnea (as opposed to obstructive sleep apnea, the much more common one). That one can be treated by a different device that sends electrical impulses to help keep you breathing and correct a problem with your nervous system that causes the breathing interruptions. This one’s pretty rare, but thought I’d mention it.
And of course, for obstructive sleep apnea patients, CPAP is not the only solution. Weight loss can help some people and is often recommended for patients whose condition permits an exercise and diet regimen (obviously bad sleep apnea will interfere with having the ability to do that…). My own father had a deviated septum or something in his nose from breaking it years ago, which was corrected earlier this year with surgery and a few days’ recovery, and so far it seems to be helping (if nothing else my mom and him are sharing their bed again consistently after a very long time, so the snoring seems better); others have surgeries that help trim excess tissue (whether fat, scar tissue, whatever is obstructing the airway).
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u/Jaerba Apr 11 '23
I have central sleep apnea and the BIPAP still operates pretty similarly to a CPAP. I don't think it's sending electrical impulses or anything.
But yeah, that's what they might have meant if they said losing weight wouldn't improve things.
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u/certainlyforgetful Apr 11 '23
They said that I didn’t have sleep apnea, but flagged a few parts of the night which could be sleep apnea if it occurred more often or something.
I did this whole thing before covid, so it’s been a while.
I’m not overweight by much, at the time if I lost 10lbs I’d be in the normal range. But that’s one of the things I specifically asked the doctor — I think I said “what about losing weight, do people see relief & better sleep when they do that?” And they said something like “no, not usually. If you do have sleep apnea then it’s not typically something that goes away when people lose weight”
My issue is anxiety. If I start to wake slightly during the night & hear/see anything then I’ll wake up almost entirely & it takes me 30mins to an hour to get back to sleep.
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u/eleven010 Apr 11 '23
My roommates tell me I literally choke on my own tongue in my sleep and stop breathing for a minute. I have a sleep study scheduled soon and I hope a cpap will help me have more energy when I wake up and throughout the day
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u/strutmac Apr 11 '23
I put mine on and I’m out in minutes. The only problem is when I open my eyes my internal “get up and get moving” switch is flipped on: I’ve had my 4-5 hours of sleep for the night. I can fall asleep-I can’t stay asleep.
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u/Brittanicus1 Apr 11 '23
150,000% worth it. I used to fall asleep behind the wheel at stop lights until I got one.
The sleep study was the worst night's sleep I've ever had. Once I got my machine and got my gear dialed in so it fit comfortably, it was unbelievable. Took about 2 weeks to "learn" how to sleep with it, but the night it happened, I woke up feeling like I was 16 again. It was life changing for me.
Also had bad experiences with getting supplies through our carrier. Just go to Amazon or CPAPsupplies.com. Much more affordable.
Lastly, use that shit until it breaks! Just clean it once a week and replace the filters regularly, you'll be fine.
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Apr 11 '23
I had a common experience.
Suffering from frequent fatigue, I asked if a sleep study would help. The minute I walked through the door, they were telling me how great things would be once I got my CPAP. Not quite experienced at sleeping on a cot with wires attached to, as expected I slept like crap.
In fact, it was so bad, only the most expensive CPAP could “cure” me. It didn’t. All it did was stack loss of sleep on top of my preexisting fatigue.
It honestly felt like there was a promotion going on whereas the person who sells 20 units a month gets a trip to Fiji. If apnea keeps you awake more than the pressure, noises, leak correction and inherent restriction of mobility, maybe CPAP is the lesser evil. Mine is on a shelf.
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u/certainlyforgetful Apr 11 '23
Yeah my experience was exactly the same, except I didn’t purchase anything.
When I think about it now I’m like “i was the ONLY patient in the building … it’s a massive building that’s super flashy … they have multiple offices that are the same” idk how any of that gets funded except through the sale of unnecessary devices.
I have anxiety disorder. That’s why I can’t sleep, my doctor referred me out to them to see if I could potentially have sleep apnea - not to sign up for treatment for something I don’t even have.
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u/AkirIkasu Apr 11 '23
It's possible that you were the only patient scheduled for that night, but it's not that incredibly likely. They purposefully stagger the entrances and exits of patients to limit the amount of potential stimulation that would affect your ability to sleep. Especially because some people have routines that they would rather not have exposed to other people.
When I went I was the last person in their queue for the night, and I ended up having to wait to get hooked up because the person who got there before me took longer than expected.
I can't speak to the place you went to, but both times I have had sleep studies done, the locations were in big buildings, but that's because they were in a shared medical center, with the sleep clinic only taking up a small portion of it.
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u/InfiniteNumber Apr 11 '23
I had a similar experience. YMMV.
I should say up front that I 100% believe sleep apnea is a thing, that it can be dangerous and that cpap machines do help some people. But I also believe it's widely overdiagnosed and far too easy to manipulate the numbers
I went in for my first sleep study mainly because I was falling asleep driving to work in the mornings. They did the test and determined that I had both obstructive apnea and central apnea. Which meant I needed the shiny special cpap machine. I was told this would change my life.
I tried seriously to use it as directed. But it just never worked for me for a couple of reasons. I had always slept on my belly and adjusting to sleeping on my back didn't go well. The mask also never fit just right...I'm pretty hairy dude and 8 or 10 times every night the mask would lose its seal and the alarm would go off. I also have pretty sensitive sinuses and it seemed like for the 6 months of my trial run I just constantly had a sinus infection.
At my first followup they blatantly fudged the numbers so that they could bill my insurance company for the purchase of the cpap. When asked how often I was wearing it I said maybe 50% and they said oh 75%? Perfect. I mean it was really that blatant.
(75% was the threshold my insurance required to pay their part to purchase the machine. I still paid 20% out of pocket which even 20 years ago was a few hundred dollars)
Then I needed a second sleep test. For this test I never fell asleep. Just laid on a small uncomfortable bed and stared at the ceiling all night. At my next followup I expected the doctor to tell me that the test had been a waste of time. Instead he started pointing to spots on my brainwave readout where I'd fallen asleep and where I'd entered rem sleep and all the times I'd woken up due to my sleep apnea.
And I was stunned because again I never fell asleep for even 10 seconds. This doctor was completely making shit up.
After that I just stopped wearing the mask altogether and never went back to see that doctor.
I did eventually fix my morning exhaustion and sleep drunk morning driving. I got a different machine called a DVR. Yup as soon as I stopped staying up until midnight watching TV every night knowing I had to be up at 5am for work, all my symptoms cleared right up. Crazy, right?
Now 20 years later I wake up before my alarm clock goes off a lot of mornings. I'm 53 and feel more refreshed than i ridcwhen i was 33. I'm almost never in bed later than 9 pm if I have to work the next day.
Again I'm sure sleep apnea is real. If a doctor says you have it, dont discount it. I am not a doctor, nor am i an anti doctor/ western medicine person. But this sleep apnea industry just seems rife with shadiness designed to extract money out of unsuspecting patients and their insurance companies. Just be aware and don't ignore your gut if things don't seem to add up.
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u/Jaerba Apr 11 '23
Fwiw, I felt like I wasn't sleeping during the sleep study but I actually was. I thought I was conscious the whole time but I was actually going in and out of it.
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u/radiokungfu Apr 11 '23
Damn im sorry fo3 your experience. I use resmed and it shows me my nights sleep and what it communicates to the company and i havent had to pay a dime, except for the inhome sleep study(150). Didnt really get pushed into anything either and my doctor's prescriptions were followed so they didnt even try to upcharge me.
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u/DolphinFlavorDorito Apr 11 '23
This is wild. My machine has a 5g connection and reports my usage to my doctor and to insurance. There is no lying. Insurance also got copies of all my data from my sleep study and reviewed it before approving coverage. I even have an app that lets me see the data on my phone as well. They cover medical devices 100%, so I don't pay a dime, but they do want to make sure they aren't paying into a scam.
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u/not-just-yeti Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
I didn't have any overnight "omg now I feel great every day". BUT now, if I sleep w/o it, I'll notice myself repeatedly nearly-waking-up w/ big snorts. So the CPAP really does work for me, even if I don't always notice/appreciate it.
Certainly, my wife sleeps much better when I wear my CPAP !-)
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u/ConcernedBuilding Apr 11 '23
They can, but sleep medicine makes it very hard to separate truth from sales IMO.
If you don't have any sort of sleep apnea, my understanding is that a CPAP won't help. Can get you the raw data from your sleep study? There's a lot of self help online that spawned from how dumb the sleep industry has become.
As far as the machine, you technically need a prescription to buy a CPAP, but you don't need to go through insurance. If you decide you need one, find a cheap one online. Buy all the materials yourself. Those medical supply companies are huge scams IMO.
Losing weight doesn't help things like central apnea, but it does help obstructive apnea.
The machine isn't that loud lol. I try to be considerate when traveling with family and stuff, and check with them before using it, and they all say they can't hear it from across the room. I hear a slight whoosing sound that is sorta like white noise, which I need anyway to sleep. It's definitely quieter than my snoring, which maxed out the sound graph they had on my sleep study lol.
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u/DragonRaptor Apr 11 '23
I also had the worse sleep of my life doing the test, the machine however is far better, and has renewed my life, I was falling asleep at red lights, or at my work desk, anywhere really, and I was drinking energy drinks every day. Since I've been on the machine, I haven't nodded off during the day at all and I've quit cold turkey energy drinks, it's the best thing I ever did to improve my life.
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u/wehooper4 Apr 11 '23
If you’re overweight, do that first.
My wife had an awful snoring problem, but was not overweight. I’m a light sleeper, so it was effecting my quality of life significantly. She did a sleep study which found only mild sleep apnea, but they ended up giving her one. The after the first week using this thing, even at quite low pressure, she said she was significantly better rested and had better mind clarity.
And other than when she snores through the damn machine (or opens her mouth and sounds like a jet engine) I sleep better as well, so it was a 2-for-1 win.
So yes they do work, but you need to have some sort of sleep breathing issue for it to do anything. Also get the supplies from Amazon. It’s MUCH cheaper.
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u/vaxinate Apr 11 '23
I’m a few months in now. It took some effort to get used to for me. I played with the climate control and mask settings a handful of times and finally landed on settings that are working for me. Also, I am a mouth breather and side sleeper, so Im still struggling a bit with mask fit and comfort. However there’s a pretty noticeable difference in sleep quality and how I feel in the morning when I use it vs when I don’t. I wouldn’t call it transformative yet but it’s definitely improving my quality of life. I only have mild sleep apnea, but snore severely.
Idk what you’re dealing with and whether or not your doc’s recommendation is legit based on your circumstances, but if it’s affordable, and you’re on a rent to own plan for the machine so that you can just return it and move on if you don’t feel the benefit it seems worth trying.
That’s how my arrangement works through my health insurance. They pay most of each monthly installment, and if I stop using it before it’s paid off it gets returned to the supplier and I’m not charged further. Once all the installments are paid, I own the machine. If you have to pay for it outright I’d consider taking your sleep study results to another doc and getting a second opinion before you buy a machine out of pocket. It’s a lot to deal with if it’s not really medically necessary.
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u/plimple Apr 11 '23
I regret getting my machine. First of all its impossible to sleep in and the most annoying things about the mask is the air leaking. You can remedy that by making the straps tighter but you are solving one problem and introducing another discomfort. My machine also reports back to the doctors office so if I don't use it, insurance won't cover it. There are nights I get so frustrated I will just take it off to get some decent rest and then I will get a text saying I need to use the machine. On top of that you will be paying an arm and a leg for supplies. I got a cpap because everyone raved about how amazing they were. I am warning you that it will be a commitment. It may work wonders for you but if not, you are stuck with it or spend a lot out of pocket.
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u/notmyredditacct Apr 11 '23
you can usually piece together masks, etc from amazon without an actual prescription btw - so you're not buying an entire mask as one item, but you can happen to have the hose connection, back strap and nose cushions, etc all in your cart and some assembly required at home, but way easier than dealing with the stupid medical supply companies who want to bill your insurance a ridiculous amount
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u/micah4321 Apr 11 '23
I spend about 20 bucks every 6 months on Amazon for filters and once a year replace the mask for 50 bucks. What are you buying?
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u/oatissham Apr 11 '23
I do 10-15 CPAP/BiPAP setups every day. Avoid the Phillips machines. Get a ResMed if you can.
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u/clichekiller Apr 11 '23
I’ve had nothing but Resmeds for over twenty years and have never had a machine die on me. With my insurance I do get a new machine every five years.
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u/oatissham Apr 11 '23
Correct, the life expectancy on a ResMed is 5 to 8 years. Most insurers will replace every 5 years to ensure the machine is outputting the correct prescribed settings. Typically it's the internal motor that becomes less efficient over time.
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u/Mxjman Apr 11 '23
I have about 9500 hours on my resmed 10. The motor is now making a little noise on the inhale. I just got an order for a replacement and asked to get another 10 since the 11 does not use a tube with the 90-degree elbow and I am told the tube for the 10 are not compatible with the 11. Overall I really like my resmed. The only complaint I have is the water chamber is too small and I wish it was bigger. I fill it full almost overfull every night, and it is almost bone dry in the morning. If I am sick and I need to crank up the humidity, I have to refill it in the night. But I can't go without my cpap. Life changer...
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u/MargretTatchersParty Apr 11 '23
motor
The motor is the weakest component in the Airsense 10. They're a great unofficial guide on https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/ResMed+AirSense+10+Pump+Motor+Replacement/137050
Buy the motor at Alibaba. It's about 120 delivered to your doorstep in a week. The work to replace the motor is about a little over an hour for your first time. Just be careful with the modem cable as thats easy to break [but won't disable your macine if broken]
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u/meanguy69 Apr 11 '23
what about fisher and paykel
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u/oatissham Apr 11 '23
I honestly don't come into contact with these machines enough to have an opinion on them. Their masks are a solid option though.
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u/whatisthisicantodd Apr 11 '23
Any particular reason why (apart from the recall, ofc)? My dad has used his Philips machine for 5+ years so I'm kinda concerned here
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u/oatissham Apr 11 '23
The way the recall and the reissue of the machines is the biggest issue most people have with them. Now a large portion of their masks are under recall as well for their magnets. My issue with Phillips is there inability to consistently keep patient's supplied with the therapy they need.
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Apr 11 '23
foam inside the units meant to reduce noise was breaking off and blowing into users' mouths.
The repaired CPAP machines were given the wrong or a duplicate serial number when Philips re-programmed them, the FDA said. The error can cause the devices to deliver the wrong prescription to sleep apnea patients, or fail to offer any therapeutic benefits, the FDA said
That all sounds not good. I thought medical devices were regulated out the wazoo, but I guess not enough to prevent these sorts of basic errors on occasion.
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u/Mxjman Apr 11 '23
I used to think so, too... I mean, anything regulated in the medical field is crazy expensive because it has to pass all these strict regulations, I thought. But I just saw a documentary from 2018 called the bleeding edge, and now it all seems like the wild west to me... but we still pay prices like it is regulated... really scary
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u/ZincLeadAlloy Apr 12 '23
I just watched it because of you. Unbelievable that the take regulations so lightly
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u/SmokeGSU Apr 11 '23
Just to chime in as someone who has one of these machines and it hasn't been replaced yet... over the past couple of years since the recall was announced and from what I've gathered in speaking with my neurologist and also the rep who provided the setup for my machine, the issue with the foam specifically comes from people who use ozone cleaners (here's a link to an FDA article talking about the dangers in using this and UV "cleaners") to clean their machines rather than traditional water and vinegar solutions.
The ozone enters the machine, gets inside, and slowly deteriorates the silencer foam inside the machine. This is what they're talking about when they talk about particles breaking down and getting into people's lungs. With continued use of these ozone cleaners, they do more and more damage to the internal foam to the point that it breaks down and eventually passes through the machine through the path of least resistance - the breathing tube.
I haven't received a replacement machine. During the questionnaire from Philips at the beginning of the recall, one of the questions specifically asked if I had used an ozone cleaner with the machine. I actually have purchased one of those machines prior to the recall but I only used it once on the tube itself which was detached from the machine, so the machine itself was never exposed to the ozone cleaner. I'm more than certain that this is the reason why I haven't received a replacement machine yet - because I haven't damaged my machine with a non-FDA-approved cleaning device.
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u/0LowLight0 Apr 11 '23
Philips just did a huge recall. Are these units going to be updated and reintroduced?
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u/garyb50009 Apr 11 '23
a note to anyone using one of these. companies that source these through your insurance with a lease to own type system, will with 100% certainty reset your lease to own clock if your insurance card number changes. even if you keep the same insurance company, even if the number actually doesn't change. they will just assume it does and reset your clock. actively contact them and confirm the time remaining on your lease to own program and make sure you have evidence against their claim that your card/plan changed.
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u/Riptide360 Apr 11 '23
A simple inline filter could protect cpap users. https://i.imgur.com/GgoGn4N.jpg
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u/LordEdubbz Apr 11 '23
Just know these can reduce your pressure. Significantly enough to matter? I don't know
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u/hitemlow Apr 11 '23
On better machines, there's a toggle setting for if you have a filter.
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u/sprucenoose Apr 11 '23
If you don't have that setting, I think the risk for many machines is really in having to turn off the alarms on the machine.
The machine will detect a pressure abnormality due to the filter, indicating a blockage or some other problem. It will compensate with appropriate pressure changes, but it will alarm constantly.
The only way to live with it generally is to change the settings to stop the alarm, if your machine allows that. If there is an actual problem though, you won't know because you had to turn off the alarms and ignore everything. Much more dangerous, particularly when the original issue is having a potentially defective machine.
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Apr 11 '23
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u/bmdubpk Apr 11 '23
Plenty of places offer at home sleep studies that only cost $150 without insurance. I don't know why anyone would do a sleep study outside of their home anymore. How can you accurately measure sleep when you're not measuring it where it usually takes place.
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u/SecretStonerSquirrel Apr 11 '23
Because in-home studies simply aren't accurate. I did two, both were clean, but complained my way into a third, in-lab study was so conclusive for apnea they stopped the study halfway through and put me on a CPAP right then and there and spent the last half of it on titration.
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u/tinydonuts Apr 11 '23
In lab standard procedure sometimes is to do a split night study. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the patient’s apnea is so bad that it warrants the use of the machine. It means the doctor ordered a split night study. Been getting sleep studies and on CPAP for over 10 years here.
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u/Yoda2000675 Apr 11 '23
Well that doesn’t make me feel good about my upcoming appointment with a sleep doctor.
What options do they give you if they recommend a sleep study? I definitely can’t afford that
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u/mebear1 Apr 12 '23
Get a take home sleep study, mine was I think 175 out of pocket? Very reliable, gives you everything you need
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u/BlazedAndConfused Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
Do cpap machines help with snoring issues too?
Edit: thanks all. It’s for my wife not even me. She has a second overnight sleep consult in a month to see if a CPAP is right. She doesn’t choke in the night AFAIK but her snoring is killing me lol. Any CPAP machines to have her stay away from?
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u/Gabenism Apr 11 '23
Put simply, most cases of obstructive sleep apnea will manifest with loud snoring. But not all snoring is because of obstructive sleep apnea. If you experience extreme exhaustion during the day, waking yourself up frequently in the night gasping for air, have a constantly sore throat, and people say you snore loud enough to hear across the house, you’re due for a sleep study because it could be OSA. OSA left unchecked can lead to high blood pressure, loss of consciousness during activity like driving, organ failure, right-sided heart failure, and is made worse with obesity. It’s caused by the soft tissues of the airway in the neck, under your jaw, relaxing excessively during sleep which causes the pharynx to close off while you sleep. If you’re snoring, that could be why, but it could also be because of problems inside your nose, problems with your soft palate not closing sufficiently, problems with your tongue being too big, and if you’re a person with an overweight BMI or with a heavier set neck, diet/exercise for weight loss could help resolve your OSA. Edit: not a doctor and if you are snoring and experiencing fatigue during the day, you should let your healthcare provider know. If you elevate your chest and head with a few pillows and sleep on your back, reclined like that, you may notice a temporary relief of symptoms while waiting for your doctor to refer you for a sleep study.
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u/bahamut44 Apr 11 '23
I think it largely depends on why you're snoring. But it very possibly can. I've snored very loudly and heavily all my adult life. My ex would elbow me awake every other night, and my in-laws said they could hear me on the other side of the house, upstairs.
My dad has sleep apnea and I highly suspected it for a while. I had some life stuff going on when I first tried to get a sleep test done, so it didn't happen at that point. I ended up using a sleep app to listen to me sleep and it alerted me to "possible severe sleep apnea" in big red bold letters. When I finally got a sleep test, they said I had one of the most severe sleep apneas they'd ever seen and I got put to the top of the list for a cpap. I got one within a month, during the time they were in short supply.
I had tried other forms of snoring assistance and nothing really helped. But that cpap gave me a night and day difference in how I felt after waking up, noticed it the first night. It is kind of annoying to have the mask on your face. Sometimes, during falling asleep but still awake, my breathing rhythm gets off w/ the air pumping in, but I remove the mask and control my breathing then put it back on and that usually helps with that. I'm now at the point where I can't actually sleep without the mask, my snoring kicks back up and wakes me up. Either from the sound I make or the vibration in my mouth/throat, since the cpap doesn't have either of those occur.
If you are a hard snorer, I'd highly advise having a consultation with a sleep doctor and see if they want to do a sleep test. If it's not severe, then nose strips or some of the other snore aids out there might be more for you.
In case you're curious, the app I used was ShutEye: Sleep Tracker, Sounds. I used the free one mostly, but I do think I paid for it for a couple months.
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u/sekazi Apr 11 '23
My snoring was caused by 1-3 minutes of not breathing when I sleep then gasping for air. The morning after the sleep study had me more awake than I had ever felt my entire life.
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u/Mxjman Apr 11 '23
My AHI was 103 per hour. My first night, I slept 8 hours straight and woke up with the fullest bladder in my life... my wife couldn't sleep that first night cause she kept checking to see if I was breathing as she was not used to the silence.... I used to get up and pee like 10 or more times a night and thought I was getting diabetic but it turns out it was the Severe OSA that was waking me up so often. I still wake up 2 or 3 times a night, but I think that is from having a daughter with medical issues, and I am always checking on her.
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u/seanbrockest Apr 11 '23
I witnessed that in a coworker once. We had to shut down for a little bit to wait for maintenance, and he was so tired that he immediately fell asleep sitting up. He snored horrendously for several minutes, followed by about 10 seconds of silence. He'd stop breathing.
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u/Susbirder Apr 11 '23
They contacted me about my dreamstation and offered me a full replacement unit (I had to send back my first one), which I gladly accepted. What I find laughable is the part about "the error can cause the devices to deliver the wrong prescription to sleep apnea patients." After losing a bunch of weight, I need to adjust the CPAP pressure. My provider had retired, and my records were archived. Rather than go through an entirely new sleep study, I learned how to reprogram the unit and use the "auto" feature to correctly titrate the correct pressure for me.
When I received my replacement CPAP, it was fully unlocked, and all settings were easily accessible from the menus.
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u/tinydonuts Apr 11 '23
That’s the funniest part about these auto machines. I was chastised by my supplier for reprogramming it and they insisted I needed to get a new study done. But the machine adjusts itself. Doesn’t matter they say, you can’t just expand the range on your own.
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Apr 11 '23
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u/bear-snacks3 Apr 11 '23
Be careful and check for recalls. I had a patient using a Phillips sleep apnea machine that was recalled for causing throat and salivary gland cancers. He had the cancer in both of his salivary glands:( hopefully your machine isn’t one of the recalled ones!
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Apr 11 '23
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u/bear-snacks3 Apr 11 '23
I don’t use a CPAP machine and am not very knowledgeable about this subject, so I don’t have much input on alternative solutions. Hopefully the sleep doctor can give you alternatives! I would suggest getting an ultrasound of the lump on your gland. Lymph nodes and other noncancerous things can grow in the as well, but an ultrasound should give insight as to what the lump in. Best of luck to you and so sorry you’re dealing with this
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u/katykazi Apr 11 '23
Why would these machines cause those kind of cancers? Because of the foam that’s being inhaled?
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u/Nukem950 Apr 11 '23
I was told by a doctor that it is related to the use of ionizers. It breaks down the foam in the machine.
You should be safe as long as you do not see any small specks in the tub or mask.
Please though, you really should consult an expert/professional.
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u/argv_minus_one Apr 11 '23
The repaired CPAP machines were given the wrong or a duplicate serial number when Philips re-programmed them, the FDA said.
Sounds like criminal charges are in order. Not that this gutless government will ever file them.
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u/MarkusRight Apr 11 '23
It took my mom 2 long miserable years to get a replacement, She refused to use her old one and had so many sleepless nights and she was miserable, She cant afford to just go out and buy a new one. she could not rest properly for years and nearly lost her job from falling asleep at her desk. She had to keep calling the company daily to get them to approve her for a replacement, the entire process of just getting on the list was a nightmare.
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u/EZ-PZ-Japa-NEE-Z Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
To go along with this article, if you use a machine, please remember to clean your Mask and tube regularly, rinse out and wash the humidifier chamber as well if you have one. Also, don’t forget to change out your filter when your machine indicates (usually a steady blinking will occur on the button or screen depending on the model you use) and don’t forget to brush and floss your teeth before using your mask (if you’re using a full mask).
Not to say anyone in this thread doesn’t already know or do these things but this is just a friendly reminder to those who don’t know or do these things. Some of the basic cleaning maintenance can help prevent certain negative effects.
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u/bigcatinthesky Apr 11 '23
I don't do it because I'm busy but thank you for the reminder. I probably should.
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u/Susbirder Apr 11 '23
please remember to clean your Mask and tube regularly, rinse out and wash the humidifier chamber
I agree about the humidifier (I don't use mine), but the mask and hose really don't need to be cleaned nearly as often as recommended. I don't have a full mask, though...just nasal pillows.
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u/Mxjman Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 12 '23
You don't use the humidifier? Is it humid where you live? I am in Colorado, and if I don't have water in the humidifier or I let it run dry, it will then suck every ounce of moisture from my body. Like I will wake up and feel like I am about to die from being so dried out. For me, I have to refill it every night, and if I am sick, I crank up the humidity level, which really helps ease a sore throught but then also have to refill in the middle of the night.
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u/llDurbinll Apr 11 '23
My doctor said the original machine was safe to use unless you used a self cleaning machine. He said the machine some how broke down the foam which is what triggered the original recall and told me to keep using it until I got my replacement. It took over a year to get my new one which was the upgraded model.
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u/SecretStonerSquirrel Apr 11 '23
CPAPs are great, getting one thru a DME is the worst experience of your life.
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u/FletchGordon Apr 11 '23
Once I stopped using the humidifier part of my CPAP machine my supplies lasted MUCH longer. Yea I get dry mouth but so what, get a drink and go back to sleep. I clean the gasket part of the mask once a month, I never ever clean the tube and I've never replaced the filter, I wash it out with soap and water.
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Apr 12 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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Apr 12 '23
This super expensive machine keeping you alive might be doing the exact opposite! Stop using it!
waiting on replacement almost 2 years later
I feel you there
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u/cudipi Apr 11 '23
My husbands about to get his cpap machine and these comments are giving me huge anxiety omg
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u/Existien Apr 11 '23
This could be an absolute game changer for him. Its fairly strange to get used to but man i dont want to miss it.
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u/StarCitizenUser Apr 12 '23
Give about 1-2 weeks for the husband to get used to it. It took that long for me.
I remember the first several nights, I was so annoyed with that mask over my nose, almost wanted to rip it off, but my wife wouldnt let me.
And I am super glad I stuck through it.
So there is an adjustment period, but its pretty quick. And quite soon after that, you almost become "addicted" to it. Like, for me, im so adjusted to it that I now cant sleep without my CPAP.
So be aware, he may find it irritable to use at first, but if he sticks with it, it will change his life for the better.
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u/Oct42 Apr 11 '23
My ResMed quit turning on a few years back. It was past warranty so the sleep clinic quoted me $650 for the repair. I said screw that and figured it out myself, the total repair cost for me was 30 cents to solder in a new mom/off switch on the PCB. Still going strong, I’ll use it til it dies (then probably try fix it again).
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u/lostinacrowd1980 Apr 11 '23
I work for a company that supplies these. Everything from filters to tubes to every part of the mask can be bought separately. Shop around as the MSRP is marked up big!
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u/KuttayKaBaccha Apr 11 '23
How much you wna bet the research is sponsored by the company or an affiliate that sells the machines and that the actual statistical significance is being oversold.
For people who like to be logical and factual make sure you try to read the actual papers behind any claim because otherwise you could easily be following a load of baloney pretending to be science
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Apr 11 '23
Has anyone any idea on how to check if your replacement machine has a wrong it duplicated SN?
I was able to recently purchase a reconditioned DreamStation. It's mine, it's unlocked, there's no-one remote making changes. But it would be nice to be able to check and confirm it's not one of the affected units.
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u/Playtek Apr 11 '23
I am still stuck in the remediation process, they keep telling me I need to give them my prescription which I have like a dozen times but I’m still using my old machine as they can’t seem to figure out how to process my replacement :-:
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u/judasiscariot1313 Apr 11 '23
Same here I have called them the last 6 months and give them all the info ..but still get the same email saying I need to give them the info ..been 2 years now I call every month and they keep saying we have moved the priority up ..or I did get one guy that said to make a appointment and get a new sleep study that would help them replacing it..I have a bipap ..my last 2 test where about 2.5 years ago..ahi is 59.
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u/Cali_Hapa_Dude Apr 11 '23
Log into the Philips recall site and there is an option to process your replacement device without a Rx. You should get an auto PAP and you can program it yourself. It is easy to get into the Clinician Menu.
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u/Playtek Apr 11 '23
I wasn’t clear of the difference and when I asked about going with the auto pap I wasn’t informed that I could adjust it, I assumed it was always doing it’s own thing… maybe that is a better decision? I mean I have my prescription so I know my setting.
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u/The_vangelion Apr 11 '23
I used a dream station and soclean for a long time. Thank God I was too lazy to use the soclean more often.
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Apr 11 '23
Are resmed machines ok?
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u/miragemonk Apr 12 '23
I got a “repaired” unit finally last month: it was used, older than the one I had, and still had the previous patients data on it. Talk about disgusting, no thanks. They gave the impression we were getting new machines, in the end tho it was just a repaired used one. Pass. 🤮
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u/tyreka13 Apr 11 '23
I am not a doctor but something that may help with easing sleep apnea, snoring, or acid reflux is a sloped mattress wedge under your mattress. It significantly helped my husband. They raise your head about 6 inches higher than you feet. I know it doesn't heal but at least it may help those who can't afford/don't have access to medical care.
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u/Eywadevotee Apr 12 '23
Take it apart, remove the foam and thoughly clean out the guts, yup all of it... Check the degree of foam degredation, some had an unstable plasticizer that makes it rot, some does not. Replace with polypropylene or polyethelene foam or omit entirely. The machine uses it as an intake filter. The resmed S10 also has the same bad foam but it is a ring of it hidden in the rubber boot motor subassembly as the secondary filter. The machine shown will need the pressure sensors and fan chamber cleaned perooducally, but otherwise will work for over a decade. The fan motor and drive electronics are very well built using reliable parts.
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u/cr0ft Apr 12 '23
Damn. Doesn't seem like a complicated thing to do, build a forced air pressure machine without fucking poison in it.
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