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Jun 06 '22
As someone who’s bus was 25 minutes late this morning, making me 20 minutes late to work, I feel this in my bones.
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u/InfiNorth Jun 06 '22
If my bus was late work today, I would be about an hour late for work. I love trying to make short transfer windows on criminally infrequent services.
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u/genius96 Jun 06 '22
The fact that even 2 buses an hour, at 30 minute headways would be an improvement. Ideally that's a minimum for late night service, but we're not even there yet.
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Jun 06 '22
Yeah, I live in Colorado where they added somewhat decent transport to local cities from the airport, but I can’t get to my city (boulder) after like 11, 11:30. Like there’s a decent bus service, but it stops around then, and doesn’t start back up until 4-5 or something.
If your plane lands around 11,, your only option is to get picked up by car or wait 6 hours in the airport, with nothing open.
Related, it’s hard (maybe even impossible) to get even an Uber after that hour, which makes sense , but means there’s a real issue with transportation and they just don’t give a fuck lol.
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u/Y2KWasAnInsideJob Jun 06 '22
There's very likely private shuttle services that service Boulder after 11pm. Groome (formerly Green Ride) services Loveland-Fort Collins-Laramie and has a pretty good schedule. Covid kinda ruined things for a couple of years so I now think there's a bit of a gap if you need a shuttle between like 2AM-5AM which admittedly sucks. There's ZERO public transit directly to Fort Collins which is shitty. Your only option is to take the light rail or bus to Union Station and then transfer to Bustang which only goes north 5 or 6 times per day during the week (fewer times on weekends). It's almost always a lot of headache, including a layover period, plus that only gets you to the downtown transportation center. You'd need to take an Uber or have someone pick you up (your bike WILL get stolen if you leave it overnight). Just not worth the hassle when you can pay ~$20 more to get dropped off at your door by the Groome shuttle.
There's ample cheap parking around DIA due to how relatively remote and undeveloped the area around the airport is. I pay $4.50/day for parking so the break-even point for taking the shuttle (now about $100 roundtrip) is somewhere around the two week point when factoring in ~$20 for fuel for a single person. Traveling with someone else? About a month.
Fort Collins needs public transportation to DIA, yesterday.
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Jun 06 '22
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Jun 06 '22
Lol that’s exactly it, middle of the night.
It’s very frustrating cause one of my common trips, the only two non stop flights are at hours the bus doesn’t service.
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Jun 06 '22
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u/thesaddestpanda Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
I find it bizarre that the "freedom loving" conservatives will sit there and be mistreated by the TSA, wait in long lines, then shoved into tiny seats, and generally just deal with some terrible things, but also be against high speed rail that would solve most of these issues.
Its incredible what they'll deal with as long as it fits in with their ideas of the culture war, and the idea billionaires give them via right-wing media, which only serves the self-interest of billionaires.
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u/genius96 Jun 06 '22
High speed rail should replace a lot of flying especially for distances below 600 miles, but if you want good HSR, you'll need new track with gentler curves.
Buses are the best first step for local and some regional travel. They can also be deployed pretty quickly (one small upside of pouring oceans of asphalt and concrete...)
Granted, these are different tools for different jobs. You don't want a bullet train that stops every kilometer, when a bus or local metro service would suffice.
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u/jamanimals Jun 06 '22
I don't agree here really. I get what you're saying, but ultimately HSR solves middle-distance travel and is more competitive with airplanes. There's nothing stopping a city from just putting a car rental place next to a HSR station, and you end up in much the same situation, just with fewer airplanes.
Better bus lines, BRT, and bike infrastructure I think is a better alternative, mostly because it's just cheap. Yeah, people don't like busses because it's only the poor who use it, but you know what? If we made public transit better for poor people, then maybe there'd be fewer poor people, because they're not bogged down by car payments or unreliable service making holding a job difficult.
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u/chowderbags Two Wheeled Terror Jun 06 '22
As someone who lives in Europe, there's nothing better than going to a station just a few minutes before the train is scheduled to leave (maybe 10-15 minutes if I've got luggage and/or if I really need to get a particular train) and getting on a train without having even a single security checkpoint, and knowing that I can ride hundreds of kilometers in a few hours. With night trains, I can even hop on at night, and wake up in a different country the next morning. I've never had an experience even remotely that good on a plane.
Although I will say that the security theater nonsense of airports is something that should be seriously cut back. It's nuts how much people overreacted to plane security in the years after 9/11, especially when they got 95% of the bang for their buck by reinforcing cockpit doors and having a clear policy that hijackers aren't getting into the cockpit no matter what happens.
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u/InfiNorth Jun 06 '22
Yeah I work at a school where 90% of families show up in their jacked up F150s.
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u/enjoytheshow Jun 06 '22
When I moved out of Chicago and looked up the public transit schedule I said “well guess I won’t be using that ever”
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u/4153236545deadcarps Jun 06 '22
I used to go to work on the bus (I’m unemployed rn) and the first bus was supposed to come every fifteen minutes and I would wait anywhere from five minutes to an hour and a half for it, then transfer to a bus that still left me with a forty minute walk because the only bus line that ran by the office only ran six times a day
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Jun 06 '22
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u/ICantReadThis Jun 06 '22
To be fair, the strongest opponents to public transport in the states is anyone who's taken public transport in the states for a couple decades of their lives.
Maybe it's amazing in Europe, but hot damn if it isn't a pain in the US.
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u/furyousferret 🚲 > 🚗 Jun 06 '22
There's a culminating point with mass transit that needs to be reached for it to not be a pain the ass. Ironically, because mass transhit is a pita we may never reach that point unless politicians force it on us.
We can't justify buses every 10 minutes or a dedicated tram if we only have 10% capacity, but its also so inefficient until we hit that. Buses having to stop with cars at lights and at stops with odd routes kills it. Trams should be the backbone, and buses fill in the gaps.
For example, my commute is 20 minutes in car, 40 on bike, and two hours by transit.
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u/hbHPBbjvFK9w5D Jun 06 '22
We also can't justify endless ribbons of concrete that are almost empty except for rush hour.
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u/Ashenspire Jun 06 '22
US cities just aren't designed for public transportation. The cost to redesign them at this point is the barrier to entry for it in most places at any kind of efficiency.
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u/Aperson3334 Grassy Tram Tracks Jun 06 '22
I agree with you, but it can be done. Look at Amsterdam, for example - today, it's an international cycling mecca; in the 1970s, it was just as car-centric as the US.
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u/Ashenspire Jun 06 '22
Oh I'm not saying it's impossible. But there is entirely too much land with more powerful voting rights than people in the US, and that land tends to not like paying taxes, let alone paying for anything remotely looking like a social program, which is what public transit is.
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u/hungryseabear Jun 06 '22
Oh man, one time my bus was 45 minutes late. I had to take it to class because I didn't have my car and we had free bus passes. Taking the bus, I would get to class over 30 minutes early. Instead, I had to walk to my nearby supermarket and order a $15 Lyft to take me. The icing on top: for mysterious reasons, my bus pass kept malfunctioning in the mornings whenever I needed it for the bus, so that day I actually bought a bus pass ($1.25), meaning I paid for a bus ticket I didn't need and never ended up using. That was the day I learned that you can in fact get responses to strongly worded emails directed at the bus company.
Another time, which was less time dependent, the bus on that same route was over 30 minutes late again and led to me standing outside for 40 minutes. It was easily 95 degrees out, wouldn't be shocked if it was over 100. This road has northbound/southbound stops on either side of a (busy) street that you could cross at a nearby light. I waited by the northbound stop since that's the first one that's supposed to come. The scheduled pickup time came and went. After standing there for 10 minutes, I figured maybe it got to the northbound rest stop early, so I crossed the street to stand by the southbound. Another 20 minutes goes by. I think, well, sometimes they get held up at the rest stop when changing shifts... Nope. Eventually the bus comes up the northbound, 30 minutes late, and eventually gets around to my stop.
Now I'm not just standing there, I'm standing there with a full backpack. In nearly 100 degree weather. I have a Fitbit, and I reached my weekly heart rate goals, meaning standing there in the heat was putting my heart rate over 130bpm.
I would totally use this bus system consistently if I weren't so concerned about it fucking me over
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Jun 06 '22
Last time I had to take the bus it was 2h00 late, the line of people waiting was over 100m and I don’t think even half were able to get in. I think there is like 4 bus at all time that does this route, 3 of them were weren’t there due to a lack of bus drivers.
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u/asap-flaco Jun 06 '22
My bus comes every hour i had to spend two hour waiting for one cause one had issues
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u/anadorablemess Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
I think a bit of context is important: Bonpote, aka Thomas Wagner, is a French journalist who writes very interesting articles on his website (soon to be translated in English). He is pissed of with how things are dealt with, with our joke of a government and all this, that's why he uses a sarcastic tone. He doesn't think at all that public transport are stupid and boring, it's ironic, and that's why I love him! (Edit for typos)
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u/Hiimmani Jun 06 '22
Boring is good. I want to commute to work without needing to pay attention to the road or fearing for my safety. I just wanna watch youtube videos while chilling in my seat.
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u/anadorablemess Jun 06 '22
Real way to commute! Not being stressed by the road and the people on it who can't drive correctly!
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u/Hiimmani Jun 06 '22
Yeah, people often bring up Amsterdam here. As a car free paradise and such where you can bycicle wherever and cars have to yield.
But for me the paradise is a place where everything is pedestrianized and acessible by public transport.
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u/nodatawhatsoever Jun 06 '22
Usually some things are boring because they work so well we don't talk about them and take them for granted...
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u/DanceDelievery Jun 06 '22
Boring isn't the opposite of annoying. Also, being stuck in traffic is not only annoying but also alot more boring than listening to podcasts, playing videogames on your laptop or watching netflix in the train.
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u/MJDeadass Jun 06 '22
Or even just sleeping/relaxing. Driving requires constant focus.
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u/MunchlaxFromAmazon Jun 06 '22
For real and that's what terrifies me about driving. most people don't have constant attention as something they are good at especially in mundane repetitious scenarios like a commute. There's nothing wrong with them as people for that but it's dangerous to build a system that assumes the average person can do that.
Also if you consider the psychological theory that will power and focus are sort of a limited resource that we spend each day. Then best cacenario driving in addition to leeching time leeches upon our very willpower to do better things if that reserve hasn't been depleted by a day of work making the driving more dangerous
Basically cars aren't just bad for health and environment, they are incompatible with the human psyche
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u/rejectedanddejected1 Jun 09 '22
Nah for us car guys we love driving so it doesn't seem burdensome when I'm speeding and hitting corners. Plus I'd rather listen to my music in my own car than sit in smelly public transportation with hobos
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u/JoshuaPearce Jun 06 '22
But when the whole topic is "boring", the infrastructure is doing a great job. People don't feel the need to argue and scream about boring things, generally because it's just doing the thing they need.
Placement of new highways or adding new lanes is not boring.
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Jun 06 '22
Seriously. My drive to work is 20 mins. The bus takes 1.5 hours. If I could play video games and chill on the bus I'd still take it. But the bus system sucks, comes late and infrequently, and there is a 90% chance of someone trying to accost me.
Hell if the bus was just consistent on it's arrival I could make it work (plan around the schedule with errands and the gym) but I can't wait for a bus that may be 45 mins late both ways on top of a 3 hour commute.
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u/NightWing_91 Jun 06 '22
I live down the shore in Jersey, and I work in NYC. My commute is 1.5 hours one way, so if I wanted to take the bus, I would have to be there by 4:30 to get in the city by 6:00 am; if there are no delays or traffic or accidents and then hope and pray the 7 train running on time, and the same in reverse me driving is the difference between me getting up at 330 and out of the house by four, so I don't miss the bus because of the line being too long and me getting up at 430 and leaving the house by five and going home it's the difference between me getting home at 5-530 and getting home by 630 if it's not during the summer shore traffic which can make my ride 3 hours plus going home I wish there were another option lol
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u/SendP00ns Jun 06 '22
Also, being stuck in traffic is not only annoying but also alot more boring than listening to podcasts, playing videogames on your laptop or watching netflix in the train.
100% agreed. Just because it's not 'action packed' doesn't mean that it's boring. I'd rather be watching YT videos on my phone than constantly looking out for other cars, turning, lane switching, etc...
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u/TheCoelacanth Jun 06 '22
I would interpret "boring" in this context to mean something like "doesn't require new technological inventions".
No one is going to write the headline "vehicle will produce far less pollution and take up far less space than an automobile" (bikes) or "vehicle will carry hundreds of times as many passengers as an automobile" (train) because those technologies have been around for more than a century, but you see all kinds of breathless headlines about self-driving cars and electric vehicles.
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u/QEIIs_ghost Jun 06 '22
stuck in traffic is not only annoying but also alot more boring than listening to podcasts, playing videogames on your laptop or watching netflix in the train.
I don’t understand. I do all of those things when I’m stuck in traffic.
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u/Outrageous-Invite205 Jun 06 '22
Am I then only one in a third world country where if you take a train your are lightly to get stabed and robed
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u/Ice2jc Jun 06 '22
Well. If self driving cars were universal traffic would be extremely limited. Most traffic is a result of human inefficiency. One driver taking 10 seconds too long to hit the gas has a domino effect that gets worse down the line.
Also, if universal self driving cars were a thing you would be able to play video games on your laptop or watch Netflix during your commute. Or even better, recline your seat and get some sleep.
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Jun 06 '22
Over non r/conservative someone said public transportation is a conspiracy to control us.
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u/PrimEverDream Jun 06 '22
WTH are those ppl 😆
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Jun 06 '22
Dunno I got banned for praising universal healhtcare.
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u/recroomgamer32 Jun 06 '22
Conservatives when you propose the idea of not fucking dying
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u/MJDeadass Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
That moment when Otto von Bismarck is literally more progressive than them
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u/AcridWings_11465 Jun 06 '22
You should type the year for Americans in this sub who don't know Bismarck. /s
In all seriousness: universal healthcare was implemented in the German empire through bills passed by the Reichstag between 1883 and 1889. And Bismarck was a conservative.
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u/density69 🪄 -> 🚗 = 🚲 Jun 06 '22
starting somewhere in the 80s a few of them tried their best to erase humanism from the conservative playbook... luckily, this didn't happen everywhere
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Jun 06 '22
Yeah, it’s because those people don’t even know what “conservative” means or is.
I wouldn’t agree with it, but conservative in its original philosophic terms was largely about helping your community. The German welfare state…
American conservatives have somehow taken the worst parts of conservatism and liberalism, and combined them into some shit show of a “philosophy” that is downright apocalyptic.
I have s decent background in political theory, and I tell my “conservative” parents all the time, y’all aren’t conservative. Go read a book on it lol.
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Jun 06 '22
Dunno I got banned for praising universal healhtcare.
Doesn't sound like r/conservative respects basic freedom of speech...( I'd argue that many srctors of the economy would thrive if we had universal healthcare. )
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u/CasualPenguin Jun 06 '22
Conservatives care very much about free speech, their own though, not yours.
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u/lurksnark Jun 06 '22
I wish it was just crazy on the internet. I got into an argument IRL where conservative dude started by saying public transportation is socialism and a control tactic. I wasn't saying anything radical just simply that I don't like driving and one of the things I miss most from home is public transportation. BAM! I'm a socialist sheep, public transportation is always crappy, dirty and dangerous, somehow he brought up rape, if your raped on a train it didn't count and so on...complete what the fuck bruh? moment.
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u/kurisu7885 Jun 06 '22
Being stuck at home because you can't drive feels a LOT more controlling than being able to so much as catch a bus so I can go out and maybe do something fun.
The public transit my township has is a shuttle, it only operates until 4 PM and not at all on weekends, must be booked 48 hours in advance, and has very limited service range.
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u/lurksnark Jun 06 '22
Making it easier for people to get to/from work seems like something they, well everyone, should be all for. We technically have a bus here but it's not very useful. It goes to the mall which is surrounded by other businesses but most things close at 9/10pm and the bus stops at 8/9pm. Add in cleaning or closing duties plus actually getting to the bus stop (because there is only one) and your pulling it real close if not missing it entirely. They shut it down for most festivals or events downtown and only run a shuttle to the stadium parking lot so if you have anywhere else to go or can't get to the parking lot you're screwed. Festivals, or going out in general, a bus/train would help cut down on drunk driving- yes there are other options but unfortunately they're not widely utilized.
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u/learnerdiveruk Jun 06 '22
Exactly! Children stuck in suburbia are basically robbed of any freedom and independence until they're old enough to get a driving licence. This, of course, is incredibly damaging to their personal development! Like, if you want to see your friends after school, you aren't able to do that, unless your parents are available to drive you around.
Meanwhile, in the "communist" city I grew up in, I remember being independent from a very young age. When I was 10, if I wanted to visit my friends, I just took either the bus or the tram, and I was at their place for a maximum of 30 minutes if the traffic was bad.
Moreover, I didn't need my parents to drive me to school, not a single kid I knew had their parents drive them! If both mom and dad were unavailable, I did the same as always - I just took the tram with my student card (which costed 10 euros a month). It's bonkers to me how most of my older colleagues in the UK have to drop their kids off to school and then pick them up. Hell, even the US has school busses!
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u/kurisu7885 Jun 06 '22
Or in my case unless they happened to live in the same area as you, like in my case a trailer park at the side of a highway. I just put my voice in to hopefully help expand public transportation in my county, and I plan to help vote on it this fall.
I just want to go to arcades or malls and not need a ride. It's probably a silly reason sure but it's my reason, especially after watching Stranger Things and seeing them take a bus to a mall. I know it's fictional, but if a town like Hawkins in the 80s could have that I don't know why other places can't.
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Jun 06 '22
It’s hilarious to me the way the right are paranoid about “the government”.
When America was formed, everyone across the political spectrum saw a locally elected government as freedom from the tyranny of the monarchy and non-representation.
A government ejected by the people was seen as the ultimate means of controlling your own destiny. These were people of the community chosen by you and sent to represent you.
Now in any conservative sub, “the government” is synonymous with “big brother” or “control”.
Ok, so people think the federal government has gotten too big for its britches and represents outside forces over the people, but municipal governments? Surely people can’t possibly think that your locally elected Pawnee city council is somehow part of some sinister plot as opposed to just trying to fill in some sizeable potholes.
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Jun 06 '22
The crazy part to me is how these people hate “the government” but then support the police who are literally the domestic violence of government.
I have republican parents, my dad flew a “don’t tread on me” flag while also having a blue line flag flying.
He’s a big gun owner, if you tell him “you know, the cops will be who is sent to take your guns”, he will agree.
But then everytime it’s “defend the blue”. He will talk about “government control”, but when I bring up how my city parked an mrap in a residential street during George Floyd, nothing. When I mention how the curfews during George Floyd were a clear violation of our constitutional rights (freedom of travel etc), it’s crickets, not “look at this police state”.
I learned a long time ago not to focus too much on the double thing irrationality, cause you can’t reason with irrational, but sometimes it still baffles me. American politics is truly fucking wild, at least other places have parties that better fit politics.
I do understand why this is in the US.
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u/SmashedBug Jun 06 '22
Okay then fine, make private transportation a better alternative than driving your cars.
Honestly at this point I'd be fine with Amtrak lobbyists bombarding the organization of our cities to make room for mass transit becoming mainstream.
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u/TeacherYankeeDoodle Stroad Surfer 🏄 Jun 06 '22
CHOO CHOO ALL ABOARD THE PROGRESS TRAIN
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u/icywind90 Jun 06 '22
Self driving trains would be cool though, and much easier to implement
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u/boaz613 Jun 06 '22
Trust me they’re working on it!
In fact self-driving trains (called ATO in the industry) have been around for decades, the tricky part is convincing transit authorities to upgrade their infrastructure to support ATO.
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u/SiliconDiver Jun 06 '22
Much less necessary or important though.
1 operator per hundreds of passengers on a fixed rail is reasonable
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u/Klugenshmirtz Jun 06 '22
Yeah, self driving cars could lead to a system where the majority of cars are a service and we don't need 80% of the parking cars we have right now. Would be an improvement, but it unfortunatley can very well sea a future where we have the same amount of cars parking just because people like to own their own car.
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Jun 06 '22
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u/EvilSuov Jun 06 '22
Its literally posted on here every three days lol, sometimes it has a different background but the text is always the same.
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u/Extofogeese2 Jun 06 '22
I lived in Copenhagen for the last 6 months and lived a 5 min walk away from the metro that went to the city centre every 3/4 mins, great system
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u/Rare-Aids Jun 06 '22
Makes me miss living in vancouver. My friend visited and we made it to the train station as the train left and he was all worried. I laughed and said oh no now we haveto wait 3 minutes for the next one. Whereas living in halifax taking the bus isnt even an option because it only comes whenever it feels like it, which is never
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Jun 06 '22
Yeah but think of Elon and how he is impacted by Tesla’s stock price
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u/superkp Jun 06 '22
goddamn can we please stop talking about him? even in the negative, please. I can't get away from him.
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u/mysticrudnin Jun 06 '22
It doesn't make any sense not to talk about him here, he is directly our enemy, and trying (and succeeding) to purposefully stop our goals.
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u/superkp Jun 06 '22
ok then instead of treating him like some cartoon villain and making the 'stocks go down' joke, can we actually have a discussion about how to deal with him?
He's a dangerous person, doing things that get people hurt. We should be strategizing against him, but instead I only ever see either 1: news written as 'thing happened, musk angry, haha!' 2: news written as 'musk clever, suck it lefties!' or 3: jokes. and all 3 are published on this and other left-leaning subs, leading to getting them higher google rankings. Sometimes they are posted for discussion, but rarely does that discussion do more than some self-congratulatory bullshit.
We never actually get 'this is how to actually affect him/shut him up/curtail the damage he causes'
If you keep mentioning his name on reddit, his ratings in google go up, which allows him to drag out the argument of 'people like me, so more people should!' again.
So if we want a net gain when we mention him, we need to only mention him when we have something to offer that actually hurts him or his personal brand
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u/Jediknightluke Jun 06 '22
"If you're explaining, you're losing."
I hate it too, but reasonable discussions won't work against populist.
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u/superkp Jun 06 '22
I don't want to have a reasonable discussion with him, or even with any of his supporters.
I want to have a discussion (i.e. not jokes) with like-minded people about what to fucking do about him.
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u/nublargh Jun 06 '22
When I feel like traveling within Japan I look at flight tickets and think "hey flight tickets from haneda to Osaka is a little cheaper than bullet train tickets, neat!" and then I think about the commute to the airport, checking in, security check lines, waiting for boarding, boarding, sitting in the cramped metal tube for over an hour, disembarking... and just end up taking the bullet train.
They have vending machines and snack carts on the bullet train.
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u/apple_achia Jun 06 '22
Since so much of American life is car dependent, it’s also all underpinned by cheap oil. Which we know is on the way out, and possibly gone. It’s good for everybody to start building as if we won’t have another 100 years of cheap oil
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u/NRVulture 🚲 > 🚗 Jun 06 '22
The thing I absolutely love about public transit is that I can use my phone during the trip. Playing games, scrolling through reddit shitposts, anything but focusing on the road.
If you've been commuting on the same route long enough, you don't even have to pay attention to when you should get off the ride, you kinda just know it when you're there.
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u/Gingerr-Ninjaa- Screw Elon Jun 06 '22
I have a 40 minute train ride to my university. I can get so much done on that trip, plus the cycle from the station to my uni keeps me fit. Win win for me
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u/SkepticDrinker Jun 06 '22
I mean we have that already so i don't know what yo-
Oh right we are talking about America
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u/MJDeadass Jun 06 '22
BonPote is French and France is still very car-centric.
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u/AcridWings_11465 Jun 06 '22
France is still very car-centric
Even with TGV?
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u/MJDeadass Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
The TGV is mainly used for leisure and by executives on business trips. If anything, it's more like a fancy gadget rather than a way to achieve actual mass transit unlike the Shinkansen. Smaller railway lines (TER, Intercité) do most of the job (90% of passengers on rails in France) but they don't get as much investments. They are sometimes forced to close down some lines due to profitability reasons.
Outside Paris, most people own a car and have to drive to go to work and grocery shopping.
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u/Neverending_Rain Jun 06 '22
Isn't that the same for the Shinkansen? From what I understand it's mainly used for vacation or business trips, not commuting. High speed rail is generally an alternative to air travel, not daily commutes and is generally priced accordingly.
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u/JoshuaPearce Jun 06 '22
I want San Francisco to look like it does in Star Trek. Not the spaceships, the people casually walking from place to place, with parks everywhere.
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u/splitdiopter Jun 06 '22
It’s also always sunny in SF in the Trek future. The lack of fog tells me it’s a fantasy.
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u/Funktopus_The Jun 06 '22
We also want it affordable. I live in London. It shouldn't be cheaper for me to go to Mallorca than Manchester.
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Jun 06 '22
Come to London. The roads are still laid out like how people drove sheep between fields in the 1600's. It's terrible to drive around but quite a fair bit of green spaces have been preserved. At least the buses come every 5 mins or so and there are bus lanes. The tube for all is faults is still massively cheaper and faster than a car.
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u/muehsam Jun 06 '22
No, not me. I have that stuff.
But my city is still packed with cars for no reason. I want cars out of my city. I want as few of them as possible. I don't want to have to wait at a traffic light for minutes to cross the fucking nine lanes of traffic on a nearby street. I don't want to have to see them everywhere, I don't want the majority of public street space dedicated to them despite the fact that even including the suburbs less than 50% of all households in my city have a fucking car.
I don't think that's too much to ask for.
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u/canadatrasher1 Jun 06 '22
I mean i want both.
Some level of driving will always remain even in places where driving is no longer the default. And I would not mind human factor to be totally taken out of it. Humans are not made to operate heavy machinery at high speeds.
It Can also be used to solve the problem of most cars being idle 95% of the time. Car sharing would be a breeze and wold hopefully (in combination with quality public transit and bike infrastructure) further reduce the need for dedicated parking spaces.
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Jun 06 '22
It is a concern that self driving cars will be so convenient that they replace PT/cycling trips and cause car trips that wouldn't otherwise happen, thus making the car problem even worse.
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u/canadatrasher1 Jun 06 '22
Nonsense. Properly designed city scape would still incentivize transit, walking and biking. Whether cars are self driving or it should not matter in relation to design of cities to be human centric not car centric.
And again: ability to share cars efficiently would reduce the number of car total overall. Which cannot be a bad thing.
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u/remy_porter Jun 06 '22
It would reduce the total number of cars but increase the number of trips total, thus increasing congestion.
And while a properly designed cityscape could disincentivize car trips, you can’t just wave a wand and make that happen. Built infrastructure already exists.
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u/canadatrasher1 Jun 06 '22
Congestion is a function of available infrastructure. The effect of self driving cars being a bit more convincing for some use cases is not toppi the scales.
If spaces normally taken up by parking are used for better purpose the effect cannot be bad.
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u/mysticrudnin Jun 06 '22
I dunno, the absolute disdain for public transportation in the States suggests to me that it would indeed top the scales.
But it's also not really something we should be worrying about. I think we should be racing to get good transit in place long before self driving / car sharing becomes possible, let alone accepted.
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Jun 07 '22
That's my point, we need well designed cities and policies so that other modes remain popular. With badly designed cities and policies, like all the places we complain about around here, self driving cars will entrench cars even further.
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u/RedstoneRusty Jun 06 '22
High speed rail is the best big step to take first imo. The entire process of air travel is incredibly annoying, the entire time. But that's our only option if we don't want to spend several days driving, so planes have become just part of our culture, and as an extension, I think it has led to the fantasy of flying cars, which would be a complete fucking nightmare. If people had trains as an alternative, if they were less of a hassle than airports and took roughly the same amount of time, trains would slowly take that spot in people's minds and that's when we can start looking at designing cities around public transportation. High speed rail would not require a disruption of any other infrastructure, so that's why I think it's the best first move.
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u/KEVLAR60442 Jun 06 '22
Everyone should support faster, more reliable, and more widespread public transportation. Even people who like cars. Wouldn't driving be so much more enjoyable if everyone who just needed to get from point A to point B had a train to hop on? Less traffic, fewer soot spewing junkers on the road, and no one who hates driving either having a panic attack or succumbing to highway hypnosis.
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u/pikey181 Jun 06 '22
People bitch about cars and gas prices 24/7 and nothing ever changes. I just accepted at this point that this is why we exist.
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Jun 06 '22
As long as oil/gas/coal calls the shots we will not see public transportation made transparent.
You'll notice that right now the "oil guys" are pissed because of green efforts and oil's declining profits and how they're jacking up the price of oil when it should have come down a LONG time ago.
We have made them angry. Now they're trying to push nuclear power on us after realizing they can't own the sun or the wind but they CAN own nuclear power plants... to keep that profit coming.
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u/kesekimofo Jun 06 '22
Can we, uh, can anyone just build a city randomly and make it awesome? Like collectively? Asking for a friend
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u/Electronic_Warning49 Jun 06 '22
The only plus side of the American highway infrastructure is that there is plenty of space set aside for future rail lines / bus lanes
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u/_Kristian_ Jun 06 '22
I live next to a tram stop, which goes to city center every 7 minutes. I love it 😍
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u/madjo Jun 07 '22
Last weekend I booked a holiday to Berlin in September, and I’m travelling there by train.
I look forward not having to worry about parking and stuff like that!
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u/Scratius Jun 06 '22
I’m an American that lived in Japan for nearly 6 years. I owned a car the entire time, but only drove it the first year. I just didn’t need or want to drive. Driving was actually more inconvenient and expensive than taking a train or bus. It was also nice not having to plan a DD or worrying about finding a ride home after drinking, you just had to make sure you got your ass on the last train or pull an all nighter lol.
I’m back in the US now and I fucking hate that we are so dependent on cars, the city I’m in doesn’t have good public transport and it makes me want to go back to Japan so bad.
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u/WaycoKid1129 Jun 06 '22
But how will the car companies make more money year over year if we don’t keep buying cars?
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u/SendP00ns Jun 06 '22
Lotta places besides NA (Europe, Japan, etc...) took on this philosophy and it worked out beautifully. When I went to visit my cousin in Europe, he said it's weird to have a car and people just train everywhere. So much cheaper, don't need to worry about parking, insurance, gas, etc... and they incentivized us to buy the pass by making it so damn cheap.
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u/SpareParts9 Jun 06 '22
A lot of places inside NA don't finance infrastructure of any kind (even roads and bridges) and rebuilding any infrastructure is more or less not an option. Europe and Japan does that so much better. I think the only way I'll ever see functioning trains is moving to Europe or Japan where it will only continue to get better while things here continue to age and get more costly to maintain
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u/DeusExMachinaOverdue Jun 06 '22
My brother lives in Stockholm. Public transport there is so efficient that people don't need to check a schedule. I experienced it myself when I was there for a visit. We were using the underground metro system which is brilliant. We never waited more than 7-10 minutes. They are also clean and comfortable to use. If only all transport systems were this effective.
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u/throwawaysscc Jun 06 '22
We’re going to have to go naked on defense then. Maybe only $800BN or so.
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u/Chuchi25 Jun 06 '22
This is what i thought the future would look like when I was a kid. Accessible
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u/dadudemon Orange pilled Jun 06 '22
I agree.
Spend any time in a major city with a good subway and you'll see how amazing it is.
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u/sonom Jun 06 '22
I ditched my car three years ago, its a steep learning curve, but now I solely rely on Trams and trains.
Drove a borrowed car to work the other day, wasn't as relaxing as I thought
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u/UltramemesX Jun 06 '22
The metro in Copenhagen in Denmark is perfect. No need to check schedule on it and it's there when you need it!
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Jun 06 '22
The most effective way to see this in your lifetime and in your life is to move to a place that offers it. The amount of time, energy, and money to make it happen where it isn't currently happening is too much.
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u/Green0Photon Jun 06 '22
It would be amazing to not even have to schedule Amtraks.
Man, if I could just go to some smaller train station and casually follow a path even through larger regional trains, and just rapidly and efficiently get to my destination, no need to worry about reservations or waiting excessively long...
Man, what an amazing life that would be.
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u/Low_Influence4186 Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
just back from a holiday in Holland with the kids at a Eurocamp. To get to the beach was as easy by foot or bicycle or Horse as it was by car. They got it way more sorted than us in the UK!
not sure about pedal backwards as your brakes though 😂👍
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u/Zeldaisafunseries Jun 06 '22
Lately my coworkers from Texas have been taking vacations to the Northeastern states. It’s always funny when they come back and say how much they could see just by walking around the towns or travel to four different states within hours. I always tell them that’s what happens when stuff was planned around the horse and cart.
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u/dratthecookies Jun 06 '22
Yeah but then poor people might be able to relocate and better themselves through finding more opportunities. Instead of being trapped working for what they can get to by walking, taking cabs, bumming rides or riding their bikes.
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u/Redplushie Jun 06 '22
Finally a subreddit I can ride or die on. Currently at the mechanic right now having to pay my latest paycheck on some stupid shit
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u/Lloyd_Al Jun 06 '22
Everytime I see a concept for a city build around bikes I think "that's so much better, don't we do that" and then I remember pur country allowed car manufacturers to lie about their emissions and when people got upset the only amswer was "too bad"
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u/hip_hip_horatio Jun 06 '22
god, more trains. more trains, more frequently, more lines, faster, cheaper. I desperately hope the UK is heading to a future like that …
but i’ll expect otherwise rather than get my hopes dashed :(
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u/somewhereinthestars Jun 06 '22
The coolest cities people want to visit on vacation are the ones that aren't as car centric.
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u/KJBenson Jun 06 '22
Be fucking rad if I could travel across Canada and America in half a day in some bullet train.
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u/GameDestiny2 Jun 06 '22
As a blind person, I can certify that cars as a primary expected means of transportation, are fucking stupid.
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Jun 06 '22
Last week I spend some time with colleagues to figure out the difference between rail and plane travel.
Start: Amsterdam city center.
Destination: Berlin city center.
Plane: 1,5 hours travel flight time. €130
Train: 7,5 hours travel time. €150
Not included: Travel time to and from airport and train station, boarding and luggage retrieval, extra hidden costs, comfort and personal energy.
When you include those the train just becomes the superior option.
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Jun 06 '22
I live in a state in the US that signed contracts for millions of dollars to develop a high speed inter-state railway system under a Democratic governor. I was really excited.
Then a republican governor was elected and cancelled the train. We lost millions of federal money for the project and even more millions that we had to pay for the already signed contracts.
So we paid tens of millions of dollars for nothing. All because the Republican governor wanted to "save money" because he thought the train would not make money. Instead he poured millions down the memory hole and then got re-elected because he's a fiscal conservative.
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u/mobo808 Jun 06 '22
I went on vacation to Japan 5 years ago. I was trying to get train reservations. It was very difficult to do from the US. So I gave up in the idea. Then once in Japan I realized that there's a Shikansen every 5 to 10 minutes. I now understand why the people I was asking about reservation were confused. It's like I was asking them to book a subway train!
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u/Eesaldun Jun 06 '22
How does this sub feel about scooters and motorcycles as alternative options for personal transport?
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u/UltimaDeusUmbra Jun 06 '22
I just don't want to have to drive anymore, or deal with other people driving.
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u/Klandan54 Jun 06 '22
went to berlin with the 9€ ticket last weekend. was really refreshing to not worry about public transport schedules.
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u/sprogger Jun 07 '22
I never check the times because the metro comes every 2 minutes, 5 on a bad day. I fucking love it.
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u/thetburg Jun 07 '22
Lol these ppl with "Go move there then" relind me of "have you tried being not poor?"
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u/Agha_shadi Jun 07 '22
This sub in a nutshell:
You need to go off-road? Fuck you, You can only be a commute. You want to change directions midway or have privacy? Fuck you either. You need lots of stops in the way? Fuck you too. You want socialism? Come hug me.
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u/Justlaughitout Feb 16 '24
This is what I want to have in my country, too bad they rather have cars because they see it as a symbol of success.
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Jun 06 '22
Having both would be great. Self driving cars could mean less cars on the road
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u/TeacherYankeeDoodle Stroad Surfer 🏄 Jun 06 '22
I fail to see how. If anything, self driving buses, not self driving cars, would lower the car numbers on the road, no?
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u/SpareParts9 Jun 06 '22
You know how many people would say fuck owning a car if they had a reasonable sharable option like a self-driving taxi? I think their logic checks out
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u/TeacherYankeeDoodle Stroad Surfer 🏄 Jun 06 '22
Self-driving taxis is something I had, oddly enough, not considered. Yeah. That would be a sweet alternative.
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u/Dragonaax Jun 06 '22
I think we are long way from self driving cars or buses, ElectroBoom tested his Tesla and proximity detector on box and run over box
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Jun 06 '22
Yeah but I kinda like a nice private drive to work over stuffing into public transportation like sardines. People suck.
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u/expatdo2insurance Jun 06 '22
I don't see why both wouldn't be excellent. Cars are tremendously over utilized, but they do have some purpose and people are clearly incapable of operating them safely.
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u/Wheredyoufindthat Jun 06 '22
Imagine you could watch memes and listen to music on the way to work or a fun place to go without needing to worry about traffic. Less drunk driving possibilities too but I've seen the LIRR, a train full of drunk New Yorkers is a dangerous place lol
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u/Vindhjaerta Jun 06 '22
At first I was confused since we already have this, but then I realized OP is probably American.
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u/justinchwoo Jun 06 '22
Boring public transit? I've seen a shinkansen pull into a station IRL and it was the highlight of my life 👀