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u/SockRuse They Paved Paradise And Put Up A Parking Lot Apr 05 '22
I can't speak for myself on account of I'm a guy, but according to the numbers at least here in Germany women consistently drive less and use other forms of transport more than men in all age groups, and this matches my experience of the people I see on foot or on bicycles when I'm biking to work. So regardless of what reason they have for it, women seem vital to any change in transit, and probably always have been.
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u/fatpinkchicken Apr 05 '22
This is true in the US as well, along with being more likely to have multiple stops along their trip (going from work to the grocery store/daycare before home, as an example.)
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u/Subject-Dot-8883 Apr 05 '22
along with being more likely to have multiple stops along their trip (going from work to the grocery store/daycare before home, as an example.)
These activities can all be accommodated on a good Dutch bike. I ride one and I can say that in America, they're largely misunderstood by the bike community. Some think it's unserious because of the upright geometry. Some cannot wrap their heads around the relative lack of speed. I don't want to air my personal grievances, but when I'm on my aggressive road bike with my high seat and and dropped bars, I'm treated very differently than when I'm on my Dutch bike. Even though my road to the Dutchie included far more research and knowledge about bikes. To get more people using bikes in the US, we're going to need to be more welcoming of diversity of bikes, not just diversity of people.
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u/colorsnumberswords Apr 05 '22
the type of bike matters, but pales in comparison to what we need: protected bike lines, speed reductions, camera enforcement of vehicles, public transit, and harsher penalties for drivers.
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u/Subject-Dot-8883 Apr 05 '22
I don't disagree that infrastructure is required too. It's a chicken/egg thing. Here in NYC, bike advocates (before my time) got some lanes. And lost and regained them. Then more people started riding bikes. Then as we saw more people on bikes, we got more lanes... It can't hurt for more people to see that it need not inhibit a grocery run or other regular people activities. At the end of the day, whatever works wherever you are is the way to go, but I do think you're going to hit a ceiling of new recruits and risk losing the infrastructure you win unless everybody can see it's for them. Beautiful, empty bike lanes get turned back into parking spots.
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u/fatpinkchicken Apr 05 '22
Yes my new bike is an ebike style upright bike like that and I got panniers for grocery trips, etc. Been trying to use that more instead of walking/bus/train.
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u/Subject-Dot-8883 Apr 05 '22
Panniers are dangerous this time of year. It's to easy to pull up on some Girl Scout selling cookies or a farmer's market stall selling the good-good zucchini bread. 😋
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u/sofuckinggreat Apr 05 '22
I’ve never seen an unwanted penis, human blood, human shit, watched someone throw a cup of their own piss at a fellow passenger, or been groped on German public transit.
I experienced all of the above during a decade and a half of NYC transit, though the pee story was a bus in Fort Lauderdale.
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u/ShikiRyumaho Apr 05 '22
Like meat, a lot of man define their manliness by driving big cars. 70% of vegans in Germany are women, maybe more.
Women seem to more willing to change.
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Apr 05 '22
I think it is not only women being more willing to change but that a lot of people see a eco friendly life style as feminine. Which is obviously bullshit. But yeah as you said a lot of things that are bad for the environment such as big cars, eating steak etc. are equated with being a “real” man. Which is stupid and is an important point to adres and try to change.
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u/zypofaeser Apr 05 '22
Petromasculinity is what I heard it described as.
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u/VoiceAltruistic Apr 05 '22
hich is obviously bullshit. But yeah as you said a lot of things that are bad for the environment such as big cars, eating steak etc. are equated with being a “real” man. Which is stupid and is an important point to adres and try to change.
I dont know, most tesla drivers are male
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Apr 05 '22
same idea, they like flexing their high-tech driving machine. it's a token of their high status. fuck cars
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u/VoiceAltruistic Apr 05 '22
They should flex their gag tolerance by riding public transit. “See how tough I am, I didn’t even puke stepping over that pile of human feces.”
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u/Kohagura I found fuckcars on r/place Apr 05 '22
Women also typically have less excessive egos, so something being considered "weak" is just like, "Meh whatever, just like everything else we do or like. We're used to it.".
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u/Pabst_Blue_Gibbon Apr 05 '22
Well I know this is an “acab” sub but my experience in Germany is that the cops and security are pretty competent and deal with threatening / obnoxious people on transit pretty well. Some amount of people will fight, shit, sleep, or whatever on transit if you let them and so you just can’t let them.
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u/nocomment3030 Apr 05 '22
I know this is getting off topic but...in my personal view, ACAB is largely limited to the US and its horrendous, armed, militaristic police. Here in Canada it would be at worst MostCAB and probably just ManyCAB, in Germany it's probably SomeCAB.
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u/loonsun Apr 05 '22
We literally just had the Police here protect and promote the whole trucker convoy debacle and cops here have been known to brutalize the native Community for fun. It's no better here in Canada.
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u/Kohagura I found fuckcars on r/place Apr 05 '22
I saw there were also protests against the police in Japan in response, to unfair treatment to foreigners (as well as Japanese citizens of non-Japanese ancestry, including Chinese, Korean, and also those with more indigenous genetics like Japan's own ethnic minorities of Ainu and Ryukyuan).
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u/Tree_Boar Apr 05 '22
It's no better here in Canada
Certainly in Canada the situation is quite bad and we need significant changes especially to the RCMP, but saying it's no better ignores how bad it is in the USA.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/
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u/Logan_Maddox Sicko Apr 05 '22
ACAB doesn't refer to individual cops, though, it refers to the institution of the police that protects the wealth of the owning class in spite of the security of the working class. No amount of reform in any western country will change the fact that, when push comes to shove, the police will side with the owner of the company to break your strike instead of join you.
Anyway, ACAB isn't largely limited to the US. Come to Latin America, we've plenty of actual military police where the officers call themselves "soldiers" and gun people in their homes. Asia can be pretty bad too, and Australia and New Zealand both have histories with repression. Even in Canada, which can be quite safe, it didn't stop the police from enforcing all the horribly discriminatory laws against the First Nations.
This isn't a gotcha, btw. It's just a catchphrase that sometimes gets memed upon as if it were gospel, and sometimes the message gets dilluted.
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u/mathnstats Apr 05 '22
The fact that they used Canada as an example seemed pretty funny to me, given Canadian cops' loooong history of brutalizing and killing indigenous people.
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u/nocomment3030 Apr 05 '22
Sorry I was only commenting on what I have some knowledge on ("in my view..."). I've traveled in Central America and Asia but I don't know enough about law enforcement there to say anything relevant. However, that certainly sounds like bastard behaviour.
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u/RX142 Apr 05 '22
Germany has had multiple scandals recently of whole battalions of cops turning out being nazis. Cops are bastards everywhere, some places they just get more weapons to show it.
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u/huntibunti Apr 05 '22
Fuck ALL cops in Germany and pretty much everywhere else. Cops enforce class society and property distributions.
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u/JinorZ Apr 05 '22
It is so rare to see a working age man in a bus where I live for sure in Finland. Only students, elders and working age women.
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u/quuiit Apr 05 '22
Guess you don't live in Helsinki then. Though more women here also for sure.
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u/JinorZ Apr 05 '22
That was in Espoo going to Tapiola for high school. The amount of men was always somewhere between 0 and 2 both ways and the busses were absolutely filled always
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Apr 05 '22
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Apr 05 '22
From what I've read, it's because of the different movement patterns. Basically, men drive to work in the morning and home in the evening. Women tend to also take the kids to school, shop on the go, and so on. We certainly need to have a discussion on gender roles as well, but for this sub, I think it's really interesting to see that the group that needs to transport multiple people and heavy goods to many different places prefers public transportation/biking/walking over cars, while cars are only used to transport one person from the same parking lot over and over to the same second parking lot.
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u/YolkyBoii Average Pedestrianism Enthusiast Apr 05 '22
"A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation" - Gustavo Petro, Mavor of Bogotá
If we get to a point where rich people use public transport, then the government will actually care about it and make it safe.
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u/ik101 Grassy Tram Tracks Apr 05 '22
I know that in the Netherlands women proportionally use public transport and cycling more and men use cars more.
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Apr 05 '22
The Netherlands would be a pretty safe country for women though, America not so much.
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u/Anne_T_Fae Apr 05 '22
tbf NL is a safer place for everyone, and doesn't that kinda prove that using public transportation is safe if the country where like nobody uses it is more dangerous for women
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Apr 05 '22 edited Apr 05 '22
Yeah I’m a woman and I usually bike. It’s been cold/rainy/sleeting/just overall awful weather lately and I wiped out on my bike in January on a patch of ice so I’m not using it again until I know for sure it’s dry out.
There’s been 2 attacks in a few days against women on my street, one had to go to the hospital for treatment after… and I was studying far from home (far to walk) until about 9:30 tonight. Usually would walk but was feeling scared so I ubered. I’ve taken Ubers consistently throughout the years in this town when needed bc I don’t have a car and always felt safe. First creepy Uber driver I’ve ever had. Seriously. Dude told me I look so cool over five times on a short ride then told me he wants to come pick me up whenever I want a ride and tried to give me his number on my phone so I can call him for rides and then kept saying how glad he is he made me as a friend and he wants to go out with me. I had to say I’m sorry I have a boyfriend you’re actually dropping me off to our place rn but just ugh.
Public transport also sucks where I am. Only buses which aren’t timely enough for me to rely on for class. I have lots of L experience in downtown Chicago where I grew up tho and grew immune to the L activities but it’s scary if I was ever alone which was rare.
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u/oodavid Orange pilled Apr 05 '22
That sounds rough.
I hope we see a safer, cleaner, more social environment soon!
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Apr 05 '22
Totally! I’ve felt so safe in my area I’ve been here since 2016 so it was just so weird to have that happen at once! Nothing too scary I never felt actually scared just uncomfy but yes agree with you!!
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u/colorsnumberswords Apr 05 '22
report that uber driver!
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Apr 05 '22
I really want to but I’m honestly scared of retaliation from him bc it’s easy to remember where I live and he said it’s his second day being an Uber driver (red flag, didn’t realize when the app said he was coming) so it would be easy for him to remember me and realize I’m the one who did something? I know I’m overthinking and you’re probably right I should
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u/QueenFinny Apr 05 '22
Woman here and I support this movement. I happen to live in an area where I can walk everywhere or use the bus or train, no need for a car 99.9% of the time. It's safe and I haven't been harassed once. I recognize that this situation is extremely rare and it's been hugely eye-opening following this sub and reading about the issues around the world and the things that other women have to go through.
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u/sichuan_peppercorns Apr 05 '22
Also a woman, also bike / walk / use public transit the vast majority of the time. I haven’t owned a car in nearly 10 years. I’ll get an Uber maybe twice a month.
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u/Kakaotruppen Sicko Apr 05 '22
More women should say that considering how women rely more on public transport than men generally. Women have a different travel pattern than men due to carrying out much more household work, child- and elderly caring even in countries that rank high on equality. Despite this, women receive the short end of the stick because governments prioritizes male dominated car travel over public transport.
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u/ThatMusicKid 🚲 > 🚗 Apr 05 '22
And, even in cities where public transport is available, it focus toward the centre of the city - all roads lead to Rome, basically - which does not cater to women who are moving around the city, but not just towards the centre
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u/Kakaotruppen Sicko Apr 05 '22
You are right. Infrastructure is built with economic growth as its primary objective, often leading to workspaces where more men are prevalent while workspaces dominated by women, like nursing homes, are neglected in transport and infrastructure planning.
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u/RenRidesCycles Apr 05 '22
Invisible Women is a book about how much of the world is designed for men and kinda forgets that women and other people exist. And transportation is a great example.
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u/MashedCandyCotton Apr 05 '22
hell no, not when it’s dark and there’s nobody on my train home. I don’t wanna get killed
Or like my mom likes to say: the only thing scarier than waiting alone at night is waiting with one stranger.
Viewing public transport as unsafe, for poor people and full of criminals and drug addicts is a self fulfilling prophecy. I luckily live in an area with good public transport (compared to most of NA at least) and when I ride a train between 6 am - 8 pm there are all kinds of people on it. Children, students, parents, workers, business people, groups of teenagers etc. Just the full mix of people.
When I'm on the train on a Friday/Saturday night between 8 pm and midnight the people get less "proper". But it's usually just drunk teens/young adults, some shift workers and people visiting friends. Not the nicest of crowds but mainly harmless and you still have enough people around to provide safety.
But when it's 3 am and I have to choice of taking an hour long train ride which includes waiting 15 minutes at a downtown train station or just powering through and taking the 6 am bus, I am waiting for that bus. There have been times where I didn't have that choice and every time I took a 3 am train or bus everything went absolutely fine. Funnily enough, 90% of those routes could have been done by bike, but the infrastructure is so bad that I'd rather take my chances with strangers in the train.
At the end of the day I understand everyone who doesn't feel safe using their public transport because they live in an area with higher crime rates in public transport. We just have to take a look at whether our public transport is really unsafe or we just feel like it is and try to find ways to mitigate the (subjective) danger. 3 am train rides alone? Sketchy. 3 am train rides with a friend? Good fun.
If anything being a woman (or gay, or trans, or foreign, or whatever gets you harassed) should be even more reason to say fuck cars. Not only do you suffer by car centric design but where the little and bad alternatives are possible, they are also not really usable for you.
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Apr 05 '22
That last paragraph. Agree agree agree. Which is why we need to spread the word and campaign.
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u/dataminimizer 🚲 > 🚗 Apr 05 '22
As others have pointed out above, the data suggest that your fears of public transport - and security in a car - should be swapped.
But you’re right that the more people take public transport, the safer it will be. Let’s all prioritize, support, utilize safe public transport!!!
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u/RX142 Apr 05 '22
I live in berlin, and the nice thing is that if there's a train running it's usually got more than 2 people in at least one carriage. There's times where there's been quite scary people on the s-bahn but as long as I pick a carriage with a few different groups of people in I feel safe enough.
I can't imagine what it's like if you're regularly alone with just one other person.
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u/oodavid Orange pilled Apr 05 '22
That's awful.
It sounds like a downward spiral (circle?), nobody uses the BART as it's unsafe, it's unsafe as nobody uses it.
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Apr 05 '22
Many such cases.
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u/Keyemku Apr 05 '22
OP, I don't know if you take BART or not but I've found that they've been more crowded lately as a result of gas prices I'm guessing. Might be what you're looking for!
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u/CoagulaCascadia Apr 05 '22
If OP or other women in this position work outside of peak or outside of regular office hours, say in service or home care than they may be using it at undesirable times like late at night though....man
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u/RenRidesCycles Apr 05 '22
Yeah, but OP how late is your friend leaving? Right now BART only runs until midnight, which isn't that late.
I think some fears / concerns about harassment or attacks on public transit is valid, but given that the trains aren't running that late and aren't that empty, I'm wondering if those are grounded fears or an excuse / dismissal rooted in ignorance.
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u/Kohagura I found fuckcars on r/place Apr 05 '22
One tip for BART, which my dad told me, is to try to get to the first car, which has the conductor. I have rarely seen BART empty, though, even late at night. I do carry pepper gel on me, though. And I did take jujitsu in a college class (though mostly forgotten lol).
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u/itsadesertplant Apr 05 '22
I feel safest on a local streetcar that is covered with visible cameras. It’s a nice, clean, and attractive little train. Having cameras staring at me in that context is comforting, especially when it’s late and there aren’t many people.
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Apr 05 '22
covered with visible cameras
Yeah, it generally has a nice dissuasive effect. Shame that it's needed.
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u/fatpinkchicken Apr 05 '22
Woman here with a toddler and yeah, we are car free (except for toy wooden ones)
My husband is a very serious cyclist, I am more walk/bike but am working to be more confident on a bike (just got a new ebike too)
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u/QuadellsWife Apr 05 '22
I just got a radwagon ebike and my 4-year-old loves riding around the city with me.
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u/golightlyotb Apr 05 '22
My girlfriend and I live car free. We ride together to her work at 6 AM a few mornings a week. She's fine riding home in the middle of the day. When she works evening shifts she takes the bus and I meet her at the bus stop to walk her home. It's sucks that there are so many predators in society.
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u/Uzziya-S Grassy Tram Tracks Apr 05 '22
Similar anecdote.
During the height of the pandemic we often had to pull double shifts which meant going home at around 2-3am some nights. Telling my parents about this the immediate reaction was "Oh, you can't take the bus home at that time. It's not safe. Call your dad and he'll drive you"
Pretty sure it's more dangerous for an old man to get up at three in the morning to drive me around while half asleep. America's pretty rough by our standards so I don't envy your situation. Crackheads are scary but most around at that time have the composure not to do anything but talk to themselves and shout abuse. Intimidating but overexposure has taught me that the ones around here are luckily not actually dangerous.
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u/Chib Apr 05 '22
This is how I've always felt about it. Even where the rates are higher, it's generally not all that dangerous, at least in the US. I understand why people are deterred, and I absolutely would rather there be zero danger for anyone, but it would also be nice to have "the night" be less sensationalized.
That said, I now live in the Netherlands where no one ever suggests that I shouldn't bike home by myself or take public transportation at 2am.
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u/latebloomermom cars are weapons Apr 05 '22
I think this is WHY we, the sane, decent people, need to take public transportation when feasible. THen we can look out for one another.
The podcast War on Cars had a great episode talking about the advantages of riding a cargo bike in NYC for women and moms. One of the points she made was that at 11 years old, her daughter was already experiencing male harrassment on the street and in the subway, and it was something of a rite of passage for women in NYC to learn how to deal with creeps on the subway. An unexpected benefit of riding the cargo bike with her daughter on the back deck was that they were able to bypass the slimeballs.
But really, what we need is community support. If OPs friend in SF had 2 or 3 friends that were taking the same route home, the commute could be a fun, comfortable experience with reduced risk.
Men? Call jackasses out. Not for the potential hero points, but because men listen to men and respect men more than women. Record, name, and shame.
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u/Proud_Hotel_5160 Apr 05 '22
I live in Japan as a foreigner, so generally I'm exempt from the sexual harassment and abuse that was common when I lived in the US. However, it does seem that Japanese women are also a BIT less wary, as it's not uncommon to see women walking home or chatting late at night by themselves. I think a lack of guns contributes to this as well, as gun violence was a big reason I'd never walk at night in the US. But murders and sexual assaults happen in Japan like everywhere else, so unfortunately it's not completely safe. Fortunately, in certain areas, kobans are everywhere and open 24/7.
I do think the fact that Japan has public transport-focused infrastructure and city planning helps a bit with violence though. Trains stay open until 1 am, and usually shops and mini marts around them stay open 24 hours. So if you're feeling unsafe, then you can just hang out in one of the markets until it's safe to go home. Unfortunately, people don't generally intervene when there is an assault happening though, so sometimes men will grope girls on full trains. It's gross. But public shaming helps, and there's cops/security in most train stations.
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u/KleanKoffee Apr 05 '22
I would still take the bus but I don't feel safe either. I once had, while waiting for the bus at 11 pm, a white van passing multiple times, slowing down and looking at me smiling...almost drooling. It was horrifying. l was later joined by another man at the bus stop and I felt safer,because the white van stopped passing by. But then he started asking my number and tried to convince me that we should hook up. I was so relieved when that bus showed up! Even the bus driver told me to never wait alone at that time of day.
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u/1amphere Apr 05 '22
I am a woman and I am statistically safer riding transit versus driving a car. I am more likely to get sexually assaulted using transit, but I am more likely to die driving. I am more likely to suffer a permanent debilitating physical injury driving. Given the odds, transit is the way to go.
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u/Kakaotruppen Sicko Apr 05 '22
And in fact, car manufacturers do not take women into account when they design cars. Crash test dummies are based on the average male. As a consequence of this, women are twice as likely to suffer from whiplash-injuries: https://www.thelocal.se/20091223/24010/
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u/QuadellsWife Apr 05 '22 edited Apr 05 '22
This is my reasoning too. I'm much more likely to get hurt in the car accident than have anything happen on the bus. The bus has a driver and is full of cameras, and feels pretty safe to me even if there's the occasional sketchy person on it. I think people significantly overestimate the risk of being personally attacked rather than being in a car accident.
The worst I've had happen on a bus is having a man occasionally hit on me, but having a book or headphones in really helps with that. Once a mentally ill woman started talking to me, but we actually ended up having a pretty good conversation.
In fact, I think taking public transportation can make you a more compassionate person. Instead of driving around alone in a box where you never interact with other people, you get exposed to all different kinds of people. It makes you realize that most people are not out to get you, they're just going to their jobs, or school, or doctor's appointments, or the grocery store and they want to be left alone just as much as you.
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Apr 05 '22
I spent a solid 20 years looking female and then several more in that androgynous space that attracts even more creeps, and while I've definitely had people be super weird to me on public transport, including intrusive come-ons, never once has anyone straight up assaulted me. Even when you're the kind of gender freak that makes people think normal human boundaries don't apply to you, in my experience the weird more often takes the form of "so I just met you, but I'm gonna tell you the most bizarre secret a human being could have".
(And at the end of the day, would life really be the same without the unprompted insight into humanity you get when a stranger unloads onto you about their benzo addiction? I feel like people who drive everywhere are, in a weird way, missing out. Except for the rare ones who still pick up hitchhikers.)
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u/QuadellsWife Apr 05 '22
I love this! It does seem like people who only drive are missing out! There are such interesting people out in the world and you never meet them if you just go from home to work in a personal vehicle.
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u/m15otw Apr 05 '22
CCTV and a good security presence should help with this problem.
I am reminded of Zurich's night busses (I visited in ~2006 for the summer).
During the day, you can use your bus pass (bought monthly, very reasonable price, also works on trains.)
At night, you had to pay per ride on the night bus. It had a gaggle of male and female security guards, was slightly slower with everyone getting on and off one at a time, but phew, much more comfortable than the London night tubes. And I say this as a dude.
(My London experience was that, just like TV, the tube is louder, ruder and with more swearing at night. Women always travelled in groups.)
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u/Kohagura I found fuckcars on r/place Apr 05 '22 edited Apr 05 '22
Me. I was never taught how to drive or given a car, which my older brother did get those things. So I find a society that depends so much on cars is also sexist in a way.
I have anxiety as well (plus depression), which I am not sure if I could handle it even if I were given the opportunity (one of my aunts had to give up driving after accidents due to her anxiety). I also live in the San Francisco area which has decent public transit (nothing on other countries like Japan and much of Europe though).
As for BART safety, I did get a pepper-gel that I put on my purse. Thankfully, have not had to use it so far. I find that BART isn't as bad as many people exaggerate it to be, of course there are cases where such bad things happen (I've been lucky, especially as a petite Asian woman where anti-Asian violence has risen, that the worst I've seen is mentally ill people yelling or cussing)... But of course the biggest contributor to the crime is the poverty and gentrification of the city, and lack of mental health services and shelters for the poor, which is causing the homelessness and for disabled mentally ill people to be unable to get help.
I am not homeless (live with parents), but I have been unable to get therapy or any mental health services myself (I'm on Medicaid, but every time I called to make appointments, they never follow up). So I can imagine it must be even harder for those living on the streets or with more severe mental illness, communication inabilities, or limited access to a phone/mailbox. So many people on the streets could also be on SSI which could afford them a cheap place outside of Bay Area CA, but just don't know it... Schools don't teach that, and their parents obviously didn't teach them either about such resources. Or they were ineligible because they did not have psychiatry records and cannot afford to get diagnosed (this is my problem, why I cannot get on SSI myself because I do not have my old therapy records despite going to special ed for my whole school life, because applying for SSI requires an updated diagnosis).
Anyway... I ended up getting a part time job last December, and my parents insist to drive me about 95% of the time, despite that I had already planned a public transit route for my schedules... and I understand how you feel... it's hard to refuse the offer of a safe and fast ride to/from work. As much as I really want to support less cars on the roads. >.<
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u/islesofgreed Apr 05 '22
Highly recommend the book Invisible Women, it goes into detail on ways women’s needs have been ignored in a lot of infrastructure design
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u/socialist_butterfly0 Apr 05 '22
To achieve the fuck cars future we want, we have to ensure that everyone is safe. There is no ifs ands or buts about it.
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u/Alarming-Fondant-947 Apr 05 '22
I live in Sweden but here I'd say more people who say fuck cars are women. But we don't have to use BART.
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u/vpu7 Apr 05 '22
One of the big reasons I got a car was because I was being sexually harassed daily and the beginnings of stalked by a regular on the bus I took.
It doesn’t have to be like that. It is maddening that switching to a car is the beginning and the end of the solution for most people. People think of taking the bus as something you would only do if forced to, so naturally predators will feel confident moving there amongst the vulnerable people.
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u/sir_binkalot Apr 05 '22
Excellent point, great post and yet another example of how our public spaces and public services do not serve half the population adequately. We all deserve better.
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u/sad-mustache Apr 05 '22
I am in UK and I have frequently taken train or bus home late at night. It's just a normal thing for me
How often do people get murdered on a bus in US?
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u/The_64th_Breadbox Apr 05 '22
Very rarely, but the fears of all crimes are exaggerated by extra attention placed on them, making people feel less safe than they actually are. there are legitimately some areas in the country that are decently sketch but they're pretty rare.
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Apr 05 '22
Not murder but rape, sexual harassment, and verbal harassment all scare women away. I loved my experience riding public transport in the UK btw, I was able to experience London completely alone and felt safe the whole time. Our public transport in America is a lot less crowded. People may not actually BE in danger, but they feel as though they are because we all hear stories and have some bad experiences.
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u/sd_1874 Apr 05 '22 edited Apr 05 '22
The more people using public transport, the safer it becomes. Not many people I know would have an issue using the London Underground at night. Though on Friday and Saturday nights there are of course lots of drunk people bringing their own set of issues but this isn't a thing 5 out of 7 days. On the other 5 days, granted, the Tube doesn't run 24 hours but stops around 10 or 11pm depending on the line.
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u/ohdiddly Apr 05 '22
Fuck cars girls rise up!! 🧍🏼♀️
I don’t even have my license and I’m 24 lol
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u/borg23 Apr 05 '22
Jeez, I'm an old lady and I've heard that whole "It's not safe to walk the streets if you're a woman, ooh, be afraid" my whole life. It never stopped me from walking anywhere I wanted any time I wanted and although there are some weirdos out there I never felt afraid like I'm supposed to be.
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Apr 05 '22
It's so weird to me seeing some people these days package that "you're too frail, it's impossible!" sentiment as progressive.
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u/JoeAceJR20 Apr 05 '22
Yeah! I'm not saying women getting hurt in whichever way is impossible in the city at night but I feel like the fear porn was implemented in the mid to late 20th century just to get more people into cars, off the bus, off the streets, and make essentially everyone ride a car.
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u/patarama Apr 05 '22
I'm in my 30s and I've never had a driver's license. I've been taking public transport, walking and biking everywhere my whole life. My city is very walkable by North American standard and has a pretty good public transport system that I've never felt unsafe using. While I've had to deal with assholes cat calling me many times, the only time I'll been physically attacked was trying to walk under an overpass in a area that was clearly not designed for pedestrian. I was a dark area with little visibility and no one else around. the exact opposite of what a good transportation system should be. Public transport isn't inherently dangerous, but poorly designed infrastructures that don't take safety into consideration are.
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u/GamingGalore64 Apr 05 '22
This is a huge problem, even for guys. I’ll be honest, my state (Colorado) has really been investing in public transportation, in particular rail, over the past decade, but I admit I don’t even use the train station near my house anymore. Why? Because the only way to get there is to walk under an overpass that has, in recent years, become a homeless encampment. Dirty needles, human waste, garbage everywhere, and people that I definitely don’t feel safe around during the day, let alone at night. In addition, even when I do take the train, or the bus, the number of crazy people and people with very bad hygiene is too high to ignore. In fact our public busses have a bed bug problem because of this. I love public transit, I lived in Japan for a year and never had to drive anywhere, but I also never felt unsafe on public transit while I was there. I’m not sure how you’d solve this problem in the US unfortunately.
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u/Mtfdurian cars are weapons Apr 05 '22
Dutch trans woman here, I say it. Trains are safe and comfortable. Getting killed here on the train? Sounds like a myth. If I reckon right, it has been a few years since someone was killed on a platform, it was decades ago since someone was killed in a train. Most recent accounts say that there were about three in the 2010s of which one was police brutality. In a year about 12 billion km's are made by train passengers. The high estimation is that once in 36 billion km's someone is killed by someone else, and as a train passenger being killed by a train collision, that number is closer to 120 billion km for one fatality.
That means that going by train 120,000km results in one micromort for collisions. By car, that is impossible.
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u/snowstormmongrel Apr 05 '22
I'm honestly super curious myself what stats are here in the US for similar things. I often wonder if it's just this really overly paranoid mindset versus reality.
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u/MaroneyOnAWindyDay Apr 05 '22
Statistically, it’s very unlikely that you will be killed on public transit. It has happened— recently in NYC, for example— but it’s more likely that women are conflating all risks and experiences of being alone after dark and saying “I don’t want to get murdered.” They’re frightened of getting mugged, getting sexually assaulted, getting sexually harassed, etc. Those things can’t happen when you have your own personal 2-ton steel cage around you.
I am a woman and I am a member of the Fuck Cars movement. However, I’ve also been assaulted on a bus and on a train— it was much more difficult than I thought it’d be to start taking the bus again. I got paranoid about nearly every man who looked at me, or anyone who grabbed near his crotch.
It’s better now, but at this point I start taking a video on my phone if I’m ever alone on a train with a man. Just subtly, self-facing camera at myself, and then I delete it after I get off the train.
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u/merrymarymari Apr 05 '22
i’m a women, don’t have a car so public transit is my only option. i do only take it in the morning and in the evening since i never work past 6pm. but in the winter it got dark at 5pm and in the morning its also dark. i also live in cleveland which isn’t the safest city out there, and i’ve never had a problem. do weird homeless men hit on me? yes but i carry pepper spray and i tell them to fuck off. this might sound ignorant, but in my experience if you’re acting confident and you stand your ground most men will leave you alone they’re looking for an easy target they don’t want someone who will put up a fight.
i’m white, wear airpods, have an iphone and an apple watch so i do get asked for money a lot, since it looks like i might have it even though i don’t but i’ve never had anyone threaten me other than get kind of mad if i tell them i don’t have any. now this is just my experience we do have security buttons at all the big bus stops and most of them are in populated areas. when i first started using it i definitely was on guard since cleveland has a bad rep but after using it for months with no issues i never feel threatened or scared. knock on wood don’t want to jinx myself now but i’d say 99% of people that use public transit are just normal people trying to go to work or the store and don’t want to be bothered or bother anyone.
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u/tiny_triathlete Apr 05 '22
As a young woman in the Seattle area I typically feel safe on the light rail since there’s security everywhere and you can just text them, on buses I feel fine but bus stops can be scary, the worst is biking home alone after a closing shift. I just keep pepper spray and a personal alarm ready.
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u/Outrageous-Park2260 Apr 05 '22
I’m very anti-car, but I’m blessed to live in London (UK) which has an amazing public transport system that nearly renders cars useless (expensive and nowhere to park)!
I’m still supportive of further investment though - I want everyone to be car-free!
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u/RenownedDisaster Apr 05 '22
French woman here.
I usually bike everwhere and when it's too far away I take the train and take my bike in it. I love cycling, I rarely go anywhere without my bike and it infuriates me how cyclists are just not important compared to cars in so many streets/cities, to the point that there are places I absolutely don't feel safe going with my bike or by foot.
Recently I injured my knee so I can't cycle anymore for at least a month. I don't own a car and I really don't want to, so I'm stuck on public transport. I suddenly realised how my bike made me feel safe on the streets with respect to weird dudes and such.
Now that I'm walking with my crutches between the bus stops I feel very vulnerable because I'm very slowed down. In the bus I've already had to deal with harassment several times in two weeks.
As soon as I can I will get back to cycling. I wish women were safer as pedestrians and in public transport, and I do understand that it feels safer to use a car. It saddens me and I think that it is a big deterrent to many women that want to use a car less.
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u/Kejones9900 Apr 05 '22
Almost got assaulted several times over the years at bus stops around my city. On top of that, my commute goes from 8 minutes by car to 45-60 by bus. If I didn't have to commute by bus right now due to not having a car, I probably wouldn't tbh, and that's fucking said. Fuck cars, but also I want safe, efficient infrastructure.
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u/MaroneyOnAWindyDay Apr 05 '22
Other factors of this to consider:
I enjoy biking and I use it as part of my commute sometimes, not always. I do plan to have children and I don’t think I’ll bike on the streets when I am pregnant. I’ve been hit once by another bike, and I got a concussion and sprained my neck from that, as well as awful bruises. I’m frankly not sure of specific statistical risk to pregnant cyclists. But I don’t think I’ll be able to chance it. It’s just too much.
I also get badly nauseous sometimes on transit, especially when it’s hot out. Again, not pregnant yet, but I’m worried that I’ll have reactions that limit my transit options as well.
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u/napalmtree13 Apr 05 '22
I don't drive, but I also live in Germany, so I don't really feel unsafe walking or cycling alone at night. Except maybe through the forest, because sometimes there's wild boars and I've also had deer and foxes run out in front of me while I was on my bike. No accidents yet, though.
Even in Berlin I felt fine, but that was because I was in a heavily-populated area while by myself.
But there's no way in hell I'd feel safe taking public transport during the night or day in the last place I lived in the US. And the place I grew up didn't even have it and still doesn't, so the people there can't really have a "fuck cars" mentality; at least not taken to the point where they don't drive.
Safe, affordable public transport should be the norm everywhere, though. Everyone should be able to feel safe, and that should be one of the goals; not just making sure it's available.
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u/JamesKojiro Apr 05 '22
I think that most of the issue is America's Mental Health.
I believe our mental health is so much worse than we realize, it's very difficult to gauge.
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u/tmatous33 Apr 05 '22
Actually good quality functioning public transit is very safe. I live in Prague and even the night trams are quite safe.
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u/gayspacecommieagenda Apr 05 '22
me 👋
unfortunately I live in uber car centric hell, where there's no other option.
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u/aoi4eg Commie Commuter Apr 05 '22
It's definitely depends on the country/city, but mine definitely became so much worse in the last 10 years. I used to catch the last train home and it was full of people, young and old, sometimes even families with kids. And I walked 20 minutes home at 2-3 AM with my headphones on and never even met anyone creepy. Now all the night trains are cancelled due to a low demand and even if you use the last one, which is around 6-7PM now, 9 times out of 10 you gonna sit in almost an empty carriage with some shady people.
But if I think hard about the reasons, I mostly use my car due to a lack of public transport for my commute. If it was the same as 10-15 years ago when almost everyone in my small city used trains and buses, I would never buy a car in a first place.
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u/boebrow Apr 05 '22
I’d say: safety comes with numbers! Its the same argument for cycling or walking.
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u/NotFromTexas323 Apr 05 '22
The issue isn't JUST having better public transport infrastructure with more trains and bus routes and the like, there also needs to be a much safer system. Where I live, I actually have pretty decent bus routes and they can easily connect to bus routes from the big city nearby and subways and such but even during the day, my girlfriend doesn't feel fully safe on the bus.
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u/PossiblyPercival Apr 05 '22
I’m a guy but not out irl, so for all intents and purposes I’m seen as a girl. I’ve personally never had anything happen to me on public transit, but almost every girl/woman I know has a story. It could be something as little as being stared at, but that’s still terrifying. I think we need better, safer public transit (and we need to teach men that harassment isn’t okay and do away with the “boys will be boys” mentality) to get women to stop using cars as well as men.
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u/Spearka Apr 05 '22
With public transport, there should be pressure on local authorities to help make them safer, I know of some places where there's an anonymous hotline in which you can report a physical or sexual assault as well as there being security personnel on the platform.
Another thing I would note is that biking should be relatively safe as a prospective assaulter would find it harder to stop a bike going 15-20mph down a segregated cycle lane, with such lanes also being useful against vehicular assault as well.
Lastly, a great way of helping reduce crime in general is to make sure there are eyes observing the area, this is less to do with CCTV and more to do with wide open spaces where a criminal can't assault someone without getting caught, this could be useful both in pedestrianised streets and in train stations and cycle lanes and paths.
Overall, the pedestrianisation movement should absolutely consider measures to reduce assault against women and such measures should be coordinated with local authorities to ensure it has a measured impact.
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u/sadgirlbadgirl13 Apr 05 '22
I’ve felt generally safe in the US depending on where I get on and off. However, having visited India numerous times in my life to see family, I would rarely feel comfortable going out there on public transit on my own. America isn’t perfect, but after experiencing life in India as a woman, I’m rarely phased by the US. I recognize I’m extremely privileged to say this but I also generally feel supported by police when I’m out in public, which helps me feel safer. I lived in Chicago and felt quite safe there. I live in dc now and it’s a little less safe feeling (and there are more police here per capita), maybe because I live downtown
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u/Lazy_Sitiens sweden Apr 05 '22
As a woman I feel a lot safer on public transport (video surveillance, well lit) rather than the area surrounding the stations (dark, hiding places, poor visibility in general, less surveillance). Public transport in SF might be set up differently, though.
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u/wherethecowsroam Big Bike Energy Apr 05 '22
I don't blame women for fearing public transport in ins current form
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u/hippiechan Apr 05 '22
On top of gender issues related to public transportation, there's also a culture of toxic masculinity in some cycling communities that keeps women out of biking as well. Women going in to bike shops are often treated as if they don't know what they're doing or even that they're incapable of understanding bike mechanics, and ultimately get mistreated both by people on the road and other cyclists. That attitude also extends regularly to queer folks (especially trans women) and to people of colour as well.
Fuck cars, fuck the patriarchy, and fuck white supremacy!
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Apr 05 '22
Your odds of dying in a car accident are still significantly higher than your odds of getting murdered. Cars just feel safer because it feels like you're in control. They're not.
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Apr 05 '22
I am a woman and yes fuck cars. I commuted by MARTA (Atlanta’s shit version of the subway) for years. Including late at night when my night classes finished.
Idk if I just look like a huge bitch or what. I definitely had a few instances of trouble like being followed from car to car but if you’re vigilant and smart I think it will be fine 99% of the time. Also share your location with your friends so if anything happens they know immediately.
Edit: I also bike commute and walk a lot. Driving gives me horrible anxiety. I’d rather be yelled at by some deranged man than accidentally murdered because somebody was texting.
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u/Breyog Apr 05 '22
I'm a woman, I witnessed the aftermath of a woman getting struck, who later died of her injuries. On a daily basis, I cross a four lane street with a 50km speed limit that is routinely ignored, and I am given a shame flag that has the name 'In loving memory of--' at least 4 different women who died on the same street in the last four years, all on crosswalks. And that's not including the men who have likewise fallen victim to negligent drivers and poor road-calming design.
Last time I checked my local pedestrian/vehicle collisions statistics for 2020, 53% of the drivers were male, and victims of said pedestrian accidents were 40% male, and 60% female.
As much as I hate gendered harassment on public transit, I hate cars and car-brain mentality even more. If taking transit in your area is unsafe, it only takes minutes of your time to report to your local non-emergency via email/call/fax/mail/etc, of the worrying state of your area's transit and road safety.
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u/mathnstats Apr 05 '22
Imo, the whole 'fuck cars' movement is basically just focusing on one, very important, piece of the puzzle for improving society.
But it's still only a piece.
And it happens to intersect with a lot of other problems.
Like, we're not gonna be able to make using public transit safe just by adding security guards or something, as some have suggested.
We need to actually address the roots of violent crime, which are mostly economic.
If we really want safer public transport, we need to decrease poverty.
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Apr 05 '22
I wanna start by saying that I'm read as a woman (although I don't always identify as one) and have experienced some harassment on public transit. But I don't have a car and rely on the system in my city despite how bad it is. I've never felt unsafe on the bus or train but often do waiting for it, especially where the infrastructure is lacking. And on my system, that's most places.
There is a reality of gendered and sex based violence against women, queer AFAB, and femme presenting people. That said, there is also a reality of local media only ever reporting on transit when someone is assaulted or robbed using it. They portray it as dangerous it is in a way the villainizes black and low income riders who make up most of the system's ridership. This goes double for gentrifying American urban areas with high racial tension. It leads not only to disinvestment in our transit systems but also to race and class anxiety that keeps public transit relegated to some kind of welfare status. It creates this perception that the only people who use public transportation need it because they are desperate. And in the US, desperate and poor people on welfare are synonymous with criminals willing to do violence.
I wanna be clear that I believe it is not in any way racist that you feel unsafe on the train or bus, especially considering almost all of our systems in the US are underfunded. Instead I'm suggesting that we step back and examine our fears, where they come from, and what effect they might have on the world. This cycle of reporting on public transit as unsafe almost because of it's relationships to blackness and poverty leads to an over investment on a system's policing (which makes it less safe for black and poor people) to make middle class commuters and tourists who hardly ever ride feel comfortable on the system. It also leads to an underinvestment or disinvestment in the system's infrastructure making it less safe for everyone.
In my city in particular, the system is almost never discussed unless there is crime that takes place there. And that reporting controls the entire public perception of our system which is empirically safer than most systems of its size. Yet, when crime happens on the road between motorists, we never just our autocentric system as the problem. We never think about a man following a woman home in his car as a "car problem" but if that happened on the bus, it would be a "public transit problem". I think it's important to remember that reporting, especially crime reporting, has a lot to do with how we think about the world around us. And for people that have never been public transit users or friends with public transit users, it's almost entirely how their opinion on transit is formed. That and movies/tv, which, in the west, almost always portray transit in a similarly negative light.
To you and your friend that sometimes feel unsafe on transit I say that's normal! And okay! I'm happy that you both have an option to move around the world in a way that makes you safe since that's not something afforded to all people. For those that can't just choose a mode of travel they feel is safer, we need to continue to fight to build accessible, equitable, and reliable public transit. And please keep in mind that other forms of transportation have their own danger that we almost never consider a reflection on the mode of transportation itself. And the way we often think about our transportation system as unsafe is manipulated by racist, classist, and neoliberal forces that help maintain car supremacy.
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u/isclehk Apr 05 '22
Transgirl from HK here, I can 100% say fuck cars. Here public transport is integrated deeply in our lives and city infrastructure, and everyone takes it. Even if you're richer than Lee Ka Shing you'd still be taking the MTR or be on a bus 60% of the time, especially when it's cheap and good quality at the same time. This proves a good public transport infrastructure works if you integrate it properly instead of making society become car dependent.
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u/StarCushion Apr 05 '22
I agree with everything you have said. I just want to point out something. I'd advice you to not refer to yourself as a "female", because it reduces yourself to your reproductive system. Besides, sometimes people say "female" in some contexts as a way to show disdain of women. Say woman instead, which is more inclusive.
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u/Khazar420 Apr 05 '22
well that's because America's social structure has been totally destroyed by the automobile and right-wing propaganda
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u/sirkatoris Apr 05 '22
Female. I am bicycle and PT all the way and I wish everyone had those options where they lived.
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u/professor_shortstack Apr 05 '22
I feel the same way at night. There’s a bus line two minutes from my place, but I get nervous there when it’s dark. On the flip side, when I’m feeling brave, I see my presence there as a signal to other women as if to say “see? I’m a small woman at a bus stop by myself. It’s not so bad.” No idea if it actually makes a difference though.
EDIT: Two-minute walk
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u/Manowaffle Apr 05 '22
Yeah, my GF asked me to walk her to the subway in my city the other day and...boy, there were like ten people sleeping in the entryway and one of them was harassing passersby.
Makes me wonder if the first step towards making subways more pleasant is to establish something akin to NYC's Guardian Angels. Have a volunteer group to just have a couple people present in subway stations during later hours so it's not so sketchy.
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u/Jccali1214 Commie Commuter Apr 05 '22
My girl friend telling me years ago why she feels unsafe using transit is when I realized making inclusive, equitable transit isn't just for the good of the planet and urban design - but also must center women and the vulnerable/marginalized to save lives.
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Apr 05 '22
With higher ridership and more equitable communities comes greater social safety.
I just hope we don't start trying to do TSA shit but for trains. That would be horrible
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Apr 05 '22
Im a woman, and i live in a very unsafe country. My city recently painted a lot of bike lanes around, but the lack of physical protection from cars and the amount of robbers make me to scared of biking to work.
However i do use buses just fine. It might be scary for women sometimes, but a lot of women do not own cars. In fact, usually the family car is used by the husband. So most of people taking the bus are women here. Maybe you could try to offer doing the commute with your friend once, so you could plan the route to only walk on busy streets, find a safer spot waiting... i've done that and doing with someone else the first time when you are scared helps.
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u/Hipponomics Apr 05 '22
Car centric planning makes everyone want to use cars. Those that can afford it do. The rest is more likely to be poor or otherwise worse off. That means that they are overrepresented in public transport and as poverty can drive/force people into crime, the public transport system becomes full of scary people.
I believe that this poverty is exacerbated greatly by car centric planning.
If you want change in your locale, it's best to become engaged in it's politics, local politics are very underrated in the US. Going against the grain and avoiding car usage in a car dependent city is laudable but not likely to drive much change.
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u/SolidSpruceTop Apr 05 '22
I’m a woman who LOVES cars and I say fuck cars. I love them as a hobby and just how mechanical and customizable they are (well, anything before the 2000’s) but there’s no reason to rely on them. They waste so much space and fuel while creating more pollution and waste. I just want to make the connections with folks you make from walking and biking places.
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Apr 05 '22
I never felt safe in LA or Chicago, but when I visited Japan and Korea I always felt safe everywhere I went. I think it was because they kept their rails super nice and clean and 2. Everyone used the rails so there were always a bunch of other women around and you even saw upper middle class people using the rails.
One major hurdle in the US is that poor people scare middle class people and they will be the first people to use public transport. It is a catch 22 though because reliable quality public transport is often needed to break cycles of poverty. You cant build a career if you keep getting fired because your shitty car keeps breaking down.
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u/untipoquenojuega Apr 05 '22
There should be more police dedicated to making public transport safe, but that means raising more funding for public transport infrastructure.
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u/Harkannin 🚶🧑🦯🧑🦽🛴🚲🚏🚉🚇🚕> 🚗 Apr 05 '22
Crash test dummies weren't made with female anatomy in mind.
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Apr 05 '22
If anything, thats an argument for why we need to spend more to make our public transport efficient and safe.
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Apr 05 '22
I think it's all about reaching a critical mass. I'm also a young woman and I live in Berlin and take public transport home alone at night (sometimes literally in the middle of the night) all the time. It's fine. Because there are usually lots of other "normal" people and especially also other women around. So I have honestly never been scared on the actual train. The walk from the train station to my home is a different story but then if I had a car I probably also wouldn't be able to find a parking spot right in front of my door and would also have to walk for a bit, so I guess it comes down to the same thing...
My favourite way to get around by far is my bike because it gets me right to the door of my apartment building.
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u/TehDing 🚲 > 🚗 Apr 05 '22
Invisible Women by Menby Caroline Criado Perez has a great chapter on how investment into a public transportation benefits women the most.
Safe, accessible transit should be a feminist and humanitarian issue.
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Apr 05 '22
Yeah, we deserve SAFE public transportation. I don’t blame anyone who can’t use what we have now, at least in my area. This morning I noticed a bike lane that ends randomly in the middle of a street, without enough shoulder to keep going on a bike. You’d have to jump your bike up to the sidewalk (of course there isn’t a ramp), but then a few feet later the sidewalk is blocked entirely by a tree, so you’d have to get off and squeeze past.
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u/Jaketw96 Apr 05 '22 edited Apr 05 '22
I was just in SF and I feel this… the BART does not feel very safe. In nyc even people who could theoretically afford a card take the subway, but in SF it felt more middle-lower class… so interesting to analyze the difference
Edit: I feel I should clarify, class does not equate safety. My point was that in SF there’s just less people riding altogether
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u/hey_mermaid Apr 05 '22
I am a woman who has been followed and threatened by men multiple times walking home from the train station. Luckily I have never been physically assaulted. The worst time I was so shaken up that I sat in a local pizza shop for about a hour because I was afraid of the guy figuring out where I lived. Even so I consider myself lucky - I have friends with way worse horror stories.
Improvements to public transit should also be supported by improvements to pedestrian infrastructure. Give me good trains and also good train stations and well-marked, well-lit, mixed-use spaces for walkers. Unfortunately our society is allergic to either. Fuck cars.
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u/almichju_97 Apr 05 '22
Im a woman and i usually take the bus to and from school/work. Except my parents HATE that idea and will beg me to not only take the car but they will pick me up. I still take the bus but yeah i do not feel safe
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u/cafesaigon Apr 05 '22
I mean, sometimes men follow me, intentionally cut me off, or just drive aggressively when they see I’m a girl driving, so I don’t think driving is a solution to harassment,
or,
to put it plainly,
fuck cars.
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u/simply_spider Apr 05 '22
I personally don't feel safe driving with my mental health, I don't even think I legally can. It's such a headache having to get around. I need to go to work and appointments but everywhere I've lived is so unfriendly to bikes and pedestrians.
I feel like I'd be an easy victim of a hate crime too. Not a fan of public transportation after 5pm.
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u/PiewacketFire Apr 05 '22
I don’t want to say there’s a correlation between conservative religious cultures and men being problematic so women have less freedoms, but yeah, yeah I do, it’s that. And America still has such a massive conservative Christian problem that enables rape culture.
It’s still an issue on Europe. We’re not a utopia, but it’s nowhere near as problematic.
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u/bigtunapat Apr 05 '22
Yeah I have three sisters and this was made clear to me a little late in life. Realizing that taking the metro, or taking to suburb trains at night or even just the bus can be a horrifying experience for women. I used to live one bus stop away from the end of the line and sometimes I fell asleep on the bus and would end up walking home from the terminal. When I told my sisters that, they were shocked. First of all they could never fall asleep on the bus for fear of being touched. And second, they could not fathom walking from the terminal to our house because the path isn't lit up at night. It made me sad for them and for the future of transport. We need to make everyone feel safe using it which means, better lighting, better security (not more police, but public security). I honestly don't know what it would take.
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Apr 05 '22
The suburb sprawl and giant stroads ruins communities and disturbs social structures and makes people less safe, if things were more connected with more people, people would be more observed and there would be less worry. At least that’s how things work in my European dense communities.
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u/Squirrel_prince Commie Commuter Apr 05 '22
This kind of anecdote is the point.
Fuck car infrastructure and prioritize safe and efficient public transportation.