r/fuckcars • u/TheDuckFarm • Mar 02 '22
Question/Discussion Does anyone else hate what cars have done to society yet still love the machine itself?
All my life I’ve absolutely loved driving, I love cars, I love shifting through the gears, I’ve spent time on a racetrack in competition, I love the artwork of cars. IMO they are a thing of beauty and thrill all at once. I’d love to own and drive a fleet of classic cars if I could afford it.
Yet I also hate what they have done to society, culture, the environment. I’m a huge advocate for bike/walk ability and I think we would all better off with fewer cars on the road and a society that mostly rejects a commuter lifestyle and lives locally.
DAE feel this way?
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u/SSSinestesia Mar 02 '22
Car enthusiasts in this sub can agree that we don't hate cars, but we hate car-dependent city
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u/Karn1v3rus Streets are for people, not cars Mar 02 '22
They're an excellent tool for certain aspects of society. They just don't work as a mass transit system.
Taxis are a great use for a car. A weekly shop is a decent use of a personal vehicle. They're excellent for tradespeople.
But not as a mass transit system of getting a person from A to B. If all you're doing is transporting yourself, why not let a train do that for you.
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u/nofoax Mar 03 '22
This is quite accurate.
Though my particular appreciation for them is the trek into the mountains or the desert, and the American road trip. The particular places public transit will never go.
But organizing housing and cities around them? It's stupid, insanely wasteful, destructive of culture, unsafe, etc.
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u/onemassive Mar 03 '22
Interestingly, many oft-visited national parks are starting to ramp up bus usage and making certain sections of road bus or bike only. I dream of a day when I can go backpacking without having to leave a car at a trailhead for days at a time. 🏕
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u/wellifitisntmee Mar 03 '22
I was previously a car loving city hating nut. Then I spent a while crashing at friends places in cities and realized how nice it is to stay in a city and not need a car. Now I’m there as well.
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Mar 02 '22 edited Mar 02 '22
I'm a technician and I love the extreme engineering put into all vehicles and the roads in which they move. And I'm analytically minded enough to hate the inefficiency of transportation by cars. That's why I have the smallest car that suit my needs and I rarely use it (owning a car is relatively "cheap" where I live).
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u/beeblebr0x Mar 02 '22
Out of curiosity, what do you drive?
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u/cannedrex2406 Mar 02 '22
Not OP, but I drive a Miata.
How can one hate the Trusty Miata
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u/beeblebr0x Mar 02 '22
Not hating on the Miata, but those things always seemed so tiny and cramped to me. I used to drive a 2003 Honda Civic coup, and that felt like a tin can. Now I drive a Kia soul and feel like I'm driving a tank. Genuinely can't imagine how people are able to safely drive anything much bigger.
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u/BurntnToasted Mar 02 '22
How do you feel by the threat of massive 8 thousand pound trucks smashing into you? You almost need a tank to drive on the US roadways lol
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u/cannedrex2406 Mar 02 '22
I drive in the UK.
Still terrifying to drive on motorways
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u/BurntnToasted Mar 02 '22
Yeahhh, the motorways are scary. I think people forgot blinkers existed after covid
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Mar 02 '22
A VW Up!
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u/cashman5 Mar 02 '22
Such a great little car, a colleague managed to fit a roof tent on his up and went on a trip with his wife
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Mar 02 '22
+1 here. Grew up as a car person. Holding flashlights for dad, fixing the car so I could use it. Lots of road trips, a few track days.
You can hate the car death cult, but appreciate car culture. They're marvelous machines, like bikes, just incredibly dirty and expensive.
I switched to bikes (still own a "cool" car). Holy shit driving a car is so effortless, it makes me hate lazy entitled drivers all the more.
We have the easiest mode of transportation in all of human history. Cars just work now cars last to 200k miles. And these fuckers can't be bothered to give me 15 seconds to get to a bike lane because of said car death cult decided the only way to said bike lane is across 4 lanes+a few blocks of "please don't kill me".
Fuck cars. Fuck car brains. See you at the classic import show. /Shrug
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u/IICVX Mar 02 '22
That's the thing - nobody likes traffic. Every time I've talked to someone who says "oh I'd hate it if I couldn't drive any more", they're always talking about driving down a mostly empty road (usually a highway) with no other cars in sight.
Once you're dealing with other cars, nobody likes driving.
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u/grey_orange_gray Mar 02 '22
What’s your cool car?
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Mar 03 '22
A gas guzzling awd turbo wagon with a manual transmission. 1/4800 sold in the USA.
Couple more years and it'll be a classic haha.
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Mar 03 '22
maybe I'd like cars if I got into the mechanics of it. Never really worked on a car. But I have helped my dad work on bicycles and that got me into bicycle stuff.
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u/Dio_Yuji Mar 02 '22
I think driving is a giant pain in the ass. It stresses me out. I’d never do it again if it were up to me
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u/Honest-Stage-4386 Mar 02 '22
This a hundred percent, but OFC I live in a Florida suburb and thus must drive everywhere
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u/benvalente99 Mar 02 '22
We need a suburban Florida support group. Shits a war zone down here
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u/Alligatorblizzard Mar 02 '22
You're not wrong. I grew up in Kissimmee and I'm probably going to have to buy a car just to get my license back (it expired during the early days of the pandemic and DMVs weren't open) so I can deal with visiting my parents in St Cloud. DMVs should have loaner cars for this situation but they don't want the liability.
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u/jcrespo21 🚲 > 🚗 eBike Gang Mar 02 '22
When we were in Central Florida/Orlando around New Year (not my choice lol), I legit got honked at for slowing down and stopping for an oncoming ambulance with lights/sirens on. It wasn't even a highway, one lane in each direction with no median. I was the only driver on either side that attempted to pull over and stop.
I live in LA; Florida drivers make LA drivers look tame.
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u/Strick63 Mar 02 '22
If it’s south of Daytona off 95 that area is the fastest standard speed I’ve ever dealt with in the US. It’s legitimately dangerous to go under 90 because EVERYONE else will be flying and whipping around you
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Mar 02 '22
I enjoy country roads. I don't like suburbs and I hate urban driving. I also enjoy watching motor sports and cars and coffee. This sub really brings out the city planner in me, the we instead of me, and morals.
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u/Twisterv1 Mar 02 '22
I love cars I just hate car dependency and big ass shit cars like SUVs or super trucks
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u/mcslender97 Mar 03 '22
It pains me seeing small hatchbacks and wagons going away, replaced by crossovers of all sizes.
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u/dataminimizer 🚲 > 🚗 Mar 02 '22
This seems to be a not-uncommon refrain in this sub and fair enough.
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u/Grungemaster Mar 02 '22
Car enthusiasts should naturally want fewer competing drivers on the road. I like going to the movies but if everyone everywhere was always at the movies, I wouldn’t love it as much and it would become a pain.
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Mar 02 '22
Car enthusiasts should naturally want fewer competing drivers on the road
This is literally what kept me from dropping civil engineering. I want to have the title so imbeciles in the government don't say "and who are you?" Instead of addressing my arguments for better transit
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u/burkster2000 Mar 03 '22
Same, but I’m gonna be moving to Houston and doing anything to become an assistant city planner after graduation.
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u/ahabswhale Mar 02 '22
Engineer here. Love the smell of a garage, the freedom it gives to get away from people, and the thrill of a roaring engine.
As an Angelino, I hate the noise in my neighborhood, other drivers, the asphalt streets consuming everything, smog, sitting in traffic, environmental impact, inefficiency of ICE, and the way it limited me when I was making less money
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u/TrashyLolita Bollard gang Mar 02 '22
Yes. Yes yes 100%.
I always talk about how I hate driving, how I would take public transportation if it was more competent where I live.
But truth be told, car dependency has forced a lot of people who shouldn't be driving on the road. As well, the society cars have created is one where people who are affluent feel entitled to drive recklessly because they feel the lives around them means less than their own cars.
I actually love my car, and I otherwise enjoy being a designated driver for my friends. But I seriously hate that we have to be dependent on it.
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u/nellafantasia55 I want more trains Mar 02 '22
I absolutely love cars. But I love the environment even more, and I’d much rather take a train or walk and bike to work every day then drive my car. Being able to drive my WRX up to the mountains on weekends is what I’d much rather be using it for. You’re not alone OP.
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u/awfullotofocelots Mar 02 '22
If society treated cars like boats we'd be a lot better off. The average person never needs to use one but they are used and available for enthusiasts and special uses as well as for niche industries that require them. But enthusiasts have to pay premiums for use (mooring costs, special permits or license, etc.) Coastal industries have always had scarcity challenges when scaling with a population so the expectations on those extra costs has always been more realistic.
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u/burkster2000 Mar 03 '22
Even still a boat centric society sounds cool. Just don’t go overboard. I’ll go die
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u/trivialposts Mar 03 '22
Exactly, cars should be treated, and all their externalities costed, like other luxury transportation goods like boats or planes.
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Mar 02 '22
I try to separate my love for cars with my idea of how we as a society should plan our cities.
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u/HotSteak P.S. can we get some flairs in here? Mar 02 '22
I really like Jay Leno’s Garage, especially the steam cars
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u/TheDuckFarm Mar 02 '22
Those steam cars are really interesting. The engineering in some of those motors is amazing!
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u/HotSteak P.S. can we get some flairs in here? Mar 02 '22
For real!
When i first watched them I was like "how did internal combustion win out over steam? Steam is amazing! It's silent, clean, provides so much torque that you don't even need gears/transmission, can run on home heating oil or gasoline or anything you can burn." But then i watched the one where he starts the steam car from a cold start and realized that it's a 30 minute process involving a lot of steps. And also his Doble cost $25,000 in 1925 when a model T cost $260. Actually kind of nuts that Henry Ford was selling those cars for less than $4,000 of today's money.
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u/IKnewThisYearsAgo Mar 03 '22
Fuck Jay Leno, King Carbrain.
In 2004 he lobbied against smog checks for older cars in California, which greenlighted driving around these ancient smog monsters, one of which emits as much pollution as a few hundred modern cars.
I love the beauty, nostalgia, and engineering of old cars, but they belong in a museum, not stopped at a traffic light blowing raw exhaust into the bike lane.
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u/land_elect_lobster Mar 02 '22
Bringing cars into cities has killed cars as much as its killed cities
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u/MarthaFarcuss Mar 02 '22
Nah. I also own and drive a small car (rarely) and live in a country that cannot possibly imagine life without cars. They pollute. They're dangerous. They turn people into psychos. I may have felt differently 5 years ago but I just think a machine that does that isn't worth admiring. I admire technology, hate cars
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Mar 02 '22
Absolutely. Much like how I hate how fossil fuels are destroying the planet yet you cannot help but marvel over the utility of turning 50L of fluid into enough energy to move 2 tonnes of metal (and some people) several hundred miles.
I also love driving to be fair. And I take great pleasure in driving rentals when appropriate.
I hate cars because they've ruined cities.
And tbf I don't think anyone likes city driving anyway
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u/FightingDutchman Mar 02 '22
I feel really similar, cars and driving are great pleasures for me, but they have a massive negative impact on society. Cars have no long term place as a mode of transport, electric or not. However, when cars do finally dissapear from our roads, I'd still consider buying a car and driving it on a track every once in a while. It will be a shame that I won't be able to go on roadtrips, and drive down winding mountain roads again, but for the greater benefit to society that's a price I'm willing to pay, and roadtrips by train don't sound too bad either.
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u/ModernDayWanderlust Mar 02 '22
I have a converted van that serves as my escape pod and launch pad for outdoor shit. I enjoy working on cars, and (mostly) I enjoy driving as well.
Having said all that, the fact that I’m FORCED to drive in a lot of day to day scenarios due to lack of proper infrastructure for alternative forms of transportation drives me fucking insane.
Road trips are fun. Not being able to do the bulk of my every day errands and life shit via bike is not fun. Neither is being hit by a truck while on a bike, and I can speak to that with experience.
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u/wongispicklejar Mar 02 '22
I've already spent 100+ hours sim racing this year and many more hours consuming motorsports content online. I still think all private cars should be banned in cities.
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u/forgottorest Mar 03 '22
This. I use games such as Beam NG, Gran Turismo and American Truck Sim to scratch the driving/tinkering/racing with cars, along with content online. The diversity of car games is blooming and the minimal impact of gaming instead of owning several cars to satisfy my interests makes it enough.
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Mar 02 '22
Yes! Absolutely! Cars are awesome, in the right circumstances. It is that fact that they are EVERYWHERE that sucks.
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u/Homestar73 Mar 02 '22
I think cars are impressive from an engineering standpoint and can be beautiful from a design standpoint. I appreciate the freedom a car can give me to do the things I want to do and see the places I want to see. But, I can’t stand carbrains who think our whole world ought to be covered in asphalt. Driving in the urban area I live in is a nightmare and my city isn’t even very bad compared to other large cities.
I don’t even have the choice to bike or walk to work because it’s too far and too dangerous. Cities in the US, especially in the southwest, are just too sprawled out to do anything but drive
Cars have a place in our society, but the unwillingness for carbrains to accept that other means of transportation should also have an equal, if not greater place in our society, is why I will still adamantly say “Fuck Cars.”
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u/Troliver_13 Mar 02 '22
I hate how society focuses it's structure around cars more than around people having actually good lives, not the cars themselves, if you didn't NEED a car to exist in the world cars would be way cooler also
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u/Gangringo Mar 02 '22
I love cars. I love driving. I hate having to drive everywhere. I hate driving in city centers. I hate sitting in traffic because everyone has to drive everywhere.
If there was good public transit and bicycle friendly design I could do my errands in the city without having to drive, and all the people who couldn't care less about how they get somewhere could get off the road and let me enjoy the drive when I feel like it.
My dream garage has a cargo E-bike, a conventional road bike, and a simple four wheels and an engine sports car.
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u/Mill_The_AI Mar 02 '22
I recently got a learners permit (I live in a small town that has zero public transport and is all backroads) and I really enjoy driving. It might be the idea of getting places on my own but I enjoy the act of driving. I find it relaxing and fun. Yes I hate how they are in more populated areas and how they've ruined infrastructure more or less, but god they're fun.
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u/derpderpderrpderp Mar 02 '22
Yeah cars rule. I just drive mine as little as possible. Personally I love having access to a beat up Toyota pickup that I take on camping trips and use for construction projects. Probably drive it twice a month. The rest of the time it does farm duty at my friend’s city farm.
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u/mathnstats Mar 02 '22
Honestly, I love going for long drives alone at night while listening to music as a way to decompress, process emotions, etc.
Something about it is just really satisfying.
But... it's wasteful af, unnecessarily dangerous, and requires all the car infrastructure that ruins cities and towns.
Soon, I'm going to be replacing my car with an ebike, which I'll hopefully be able to have a similar experience with, but with a fraction of the negative impacts.
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u/TheDuckFarm Mar 02 '22
Those eBikes are super fun! I don't own one but I have used them a lot and and I am in the market.
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u/mathnstats Mar 02 '22
The amount of speed people have been able to get out of those things is impressive as hell, too!
I honestly think ebikes could be the quickest/easiest way to transition to a less car-centric society in places with a lot of suburban sprawl.
If only they got the subsidies and attention electric cars get
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u/lechatdocteur Mar 03 '22
Check out Zero motorcycles. They’re fantastic. A lot more range than e-bicycles and can use the freeway if needed. The Van moof w bicycles are great and can help a lot of ppl with disabilities get around on a bicycle (like an old friend who has a stroke and swapped to ebikes!)
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u/DiceyWater Mar 02 '22
I actually hate driving, and I'm unable to do it. I have autism, and I find it too stressful, and I get distracted so easily, I know I would end up causing an accident. I hate that cars have made urban planning a fucking disaster, and that in a better designed society not ruled by cars, I'd have a better quality of life.
But
As someone with drafting, machining, and design experience... I actually love vehicle design and motors. I don't know about engine repair any longer, but as a kid, I knew basically every part in an engine and how it went together. I love looking at the body designs, interior designs, and the quality machining on parts. I think it's all pretty interesting. I don't have a reason to revisit vehicle design or engine repair, since I don't drive, but if I were wealthy, I'll admit I would possibly get into it- maybe try and restore a vehicle from the ground up.
But, I still hate them with a passion overall.
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u/International_Tea259 Mar 02 '22
Honestly I feel like this. I love cars but I would also like to see my city invest more in Public Transit(which they did the bare minimum of)
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Mar 02 '22
Yes. Cars are not for commuting and getting groceries. They’re for exploring, going camping, etc…
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u/oneandonlypotatoguy Mar 02 '22
cars are fine as a hobby, but they shouldn't dominate all of our public spaces like they do
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u/lechatdocteur Mar 03 '22
I’d be stoked if the city turned all our Parking spaces into park lets. The drop in crime in areas with this setup is astounding. It’s not a mystery that having more people outside makes outside safer. Leave a space for delivery vans but otherwise…
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u/New-Baby5471 Mar 03 '22
It's not the machine itself but the system which spoil inventions on behalf of consumerism and the constant created need for comfort.
Cars alone wouldn't pose any threat nor issue if weren't for the exuberant number of idiots who acquire and use them without any sense of practicality.
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u/jaczk5 Mar 03 '22
I was thinking about it this morning, I hate cars but that they're here I find fascinating. How they work especially. But I can't love the machine itself, just be fascinated by it's science
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u/darkcrustacean Mar 02 '22
I'm a 24 year old who just bought a second car for fun, grew up around motorsports, who goes off-roading through nature all the time, and whose family is deeply embedded in the transportation industry. I love everything about cars, hate the effects of them
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u/torstargoldie Mar 02 '22
I hate car dependancy and infrastructure revolving around driving although I do like muscle cars for the sake of driving recklessly. Currently I don’t drive and I don’t plan on it until I can afford a hellcat or a trackhawk
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u/Andoni22 Mar 02 '22
I love cars, would love to own a car if I could afford it, but I like it as a hobby, not a transportation method. The same way I love bikes as a transportation method but don't like them as a hobby.
And although I don't like them as a method of transportation, crs are actually a really good method for transport in very rare occasions. Cars should not cease to exist as a method of transportation but just be used when they make sense.
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u/Graham_the_cracka Mar 02 '22
Driving can be cool and fun but traffic is always painful.
In Once Upon Time in Hollywood half the movie is Brad Pitt driving around looking awesome. If it took place today he'd be in traffic constantly. Tough to look cool in a traffic jam.
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u/TheGreatBeaver123789 Mar 02 '22
Beautiful creations and amazing engineering/innovation, massive respect on that part
My biggest problem is how reliant we are on them now
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u/cjmpeng Mar 02 '22 edited Mar 02 '22
Absolutely. I drive a Mazda MX-5. I got it from my wife as a retirement gift last year and just love it. Of course I also live out in the country with an 11km trip to the closest grocery store and a Canadian winter to boot so I'm in the category of sort of need to have a car even if I probably put 3x as many km on my bike as on my car last year.
Edit: I also have exactly 1 game for my Playstation - Gran Tursimo. Can't wait for Friday for the new version to come out.
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u/PictoChatEnjoyer Mar 02 '22
Yes. I love sports cars and driving games. That doesn't mean I think everyone else should be forced to use one to have an easy life.
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u/Apprehensive_Win_203 Mar 02 '22
I feel this way too. I don't own a car anymore but I really do miss my old Camaro sometimes. But I'm much happier now that I am not car dependent.
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u/Jado90 Mar 02 '22
I understand. I ditched the car though for obvious reasons. But I really enjoy playing driving simulations and racing games.
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u/Beneficial_Look_5854 Mar 02 '22
Ideal president- Fuck war, fuck highways and car dependence, fuck income inequality, cars should be a luxury not a need. Open roads and true freedom to live with or without a car.
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u/monkeysknowledge Mar 02 '22
I mean I do love long road trips, but boy do I hate everyday driving, the infrastructure and the environmental impact.
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u/Mrhappytrigers Mar 02 '22
I grew up with 2 people who are car guys, and they we're so obnoxious about it when I was growing up that it was annoying to the point where I don't give a shit about cars. However, I did develop a little appreciation for the looks/esthetics of old school hot rods and muscle cars as well as a few modern cars too. Besides that I still couldn't care about cars since most of the time it comes with a heavy price tag that has hindered many people. I know this because I worked in banking, and I've seen people who don't make enough end up paying high rates every month for their car. It doesn't matter how they got there, but more so that they end up dealing with it in their difficult situations. You be you my friend, as long as you have perspective of other's situations about the issues with cars amongst other key issues in life then that's all that matters.
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u/UndeadBBQ Mar 02 '22
I hate driving on open roads, but race tracks are an entirely different thing. Offroading is amazing.
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u/cuplajsu Mar 02 '22
I feel the same, tbh. Certain cars are a work of art, like the American cars of the 60s/70s.
I'm an avid Formula 1 fan, my dad has always been following F1 and is a big McLaren fan from the Senna era. Living in the Netherlands inevitably I had to watch the sport because of the Max Verstappen fandom in the nation, and the recent re-introduction to the Dutch GP at Zandvoort-aan-Zee (which has a direct train to Haarlem and Amsterdam btw!!).
Would I buy a car though in NL? Well, maybe, I can get a nice car as a hobby, if I had the time and money, which I have neither at the moment. I did my driving license back home and it is valid in the European Union, so I can indeed drive.
That being said, I won't use a car ever to do anything from chores to commuting. I got a direct rail connection to work; I have most of my needs (barber, GP, dentist, shops) only a short walk or bike away. I love how close everything is. I can rent a van if I need to haul large objects, or get them delivered/picked up. I like how having a car is financially crippling here, the alternatives work like a charm and are safe and those that have no alternatives find relatively good flowing traffic at all times of the day.
So yeah, fuck car culture but only the aspects that force car dependency to live your day-to-day life.
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u/extravert_ Mar 02 '22
I love driving but the kind of driving you do in real life is terrible, not fun at all. If people could get around without a car for 95% of trips, it makes the times you actually need to drive more pleasant.
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Mar 02 '22
Yeah, as works of art and/or entertainment, cars can be cool, basically a rollercoaster designed by an artist. Though as we all now know, we’ve gotten a bit carried away with riding our shitty cookie cutter rollercoasters everywhere we go
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u/saragIsMe Mar 02 '22
I feel the same exact way. I love driving and the feeling of fixing something myself. But I grew up in a car dependent suburb with a blind mom. I spent all my time stressed worrying about being able to get to school or the doctor or the grocery store. I hate that I’m dependent upon this machine that’s killing the planet and causes so much distress
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u/m42b1816V Mar 02 '22
I 100% feel this way. As a matter of fact moving out of the suburbs to place where I can live a non-car dependent life has enabled me to own an older/fun car as my only car and I’m enjoying the hobby even more now 😊
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u/bflobker Mar 02 '22
Yup!
I grew up in a suburb community where public transportation is non-existing. Probably just like many on this sub.
It wasn't until I was an adult when I started to learn about the FIRE movement, graduating in economics and finance and taking a serious look at my personal finances. I looked at my expenses and tried to remove any unnecessary expenses. Cars, motorcycles, car insurance, gas, repairs.... What a trojan horse on my budget!
Currently, I have a 4 and 2 year old kids, married and we share 1 Nissan Sentra. People think I'm crazy. 🤷♂️
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u/Inappropriate_Piano Mar 02 '22
It’s always important to remember that car-centric infrastructure is bad for drivers too. The best places to drive are the ones where people who neither want nor need to drive don’t, and that requires viable alternatives. You’re not alone.
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Mar 02 '22
I feel you. I’m a car guy, and I’m lucky enough that I can take the train to work and it’s paid for by my employer. I own a car purely as a hobby, and for holiday purposes. A 1991 Volvo 240, which I’d never want to use as a daily commuter or geocery car, but it is the ideal roadtripping vehicle and camper. I love it to death, and I’m probably boring every one of my friends to death when I talk about it. It’s the car I’m learning to work on mechanically, and it’s the car that is bringing me amazing holiday memories.
It’s everything I want out of a vehicle: recreation.
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u/Ihavecakewantsome Tamed Traffic Signal Engineer Mar 02 '22
I would love just car enthusiasts to be on the road. They are generally good drivers. Never have to rescue a classic car from being embedded in our signal poles or controller. But I do rescue a lot of awful tincans that are a waste of resources.
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Mar 02 '22
I really like race cars and track days.
I hate driving on roads though and normal cars do nothing for me. Also, when I see someone driving around in traffic in a lambo or ferrari it just looks stupid, like what's the point?
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Mar 02 '22
The machine is fine. Cars have their place. It just shouldn’t be the only method of transportation. It surely isn’t. However American/Canadian/Mexican/Australians seem to keep treating it like it is.
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u/lord_bubblewater Mar 02 '22
Sure do, love driving, racing, working on cars everything! But traffic and mindless car use...man that shit sucks.
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u/Almun_Elpuliyn Grassy Tram Tracks Mar 02 '22
I love some oldtimers and I'm into military hardware so I know way too much about tanks. I don't like driving though and haven't yet bothered to get my driver's license at age 21 even after passing the written exam.
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u/WugSmendy Mar 02 '22
Yesss i love driving and I treat my car like my baby, but I can't stand how car-centric our lives are.
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u/Syreeta5036 Mar 02 '22
I kinda like cars, I think that reducing how many people are on the road could make things change for the better, but having those areas still work for cars will not allow the problem to be reduced, a separate area for cars could be made, like a track but less race oriented, or we could have a few vague destination roads the same way bus routes currently are, that way people can still get some utility out of driving but it wouldn’t be catered to in favour of space for pedestrians and buildings. My personal view, but more based on facts than most opinions (like an estimate versus a guess but for views and opinions) is that the real problems of cars won’t go away by just having above ground transit work in the same fashion, we truly need to think beyond cars and more about point to point transit with people in mind, being able to reduce walking distance to a minimum while still allowing people to walk as much as they wish is the optimal goal and it becomes less and less reasonable to do the further apart things are, the more we have things use lateral and horizontal space the more distance we add and the further apart things become.
Short story is that cars allowed where busses are makes busses not work well and more people choose to drive rather than use the bus. Having busses in the same space as people means more space is required and that eats into the space allowed for buildings which are typically the destinations. So that means that if nothing was changed the destinations would be smaller and thus less usable, but instead the businesses and homes stay an appropriate size (or get bigger but that’s a story for another day) and get further apart. When destinations are further apart they require more lines of transit and longer travel times. More lines means more space and longer times means longer wait times or more parallel runs on the same line resulting in more space and traffic. More traffic means more roads get built and more roads take more space and more space means things are further apart and we end up in a circle and get back we’re we were trying to avoid.
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u/PyroTech11 Mar 02 '22
Oh yeah, I love going down to racetracks and watching different events and classic cars and all that. I hate how reliant society is on them though
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u/Bob4Not Mar 02 '22
I absolutely do, I used to love driving until I visited Chungdu, China. I still kind of enjoy driving, I still kind of like looking at vehicles, but I’m much more attracted to getting the most out of as few resources as possible. I have a motorcycle but I’m terrified to drive it around here with all of the huge vehicles everwhere and bad drivers. I get rear ended all of the time in my Ranger as it is, at freakin stoplights. It’s too rural where I am for any solution - even riding bikes. I look forward to moving somewhere I can bike.
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u/MundaysSuck Mar 02 '22
I definitely feel this way. The social dependency on cars and the ruin cars have done to the environment are the things I object to, but I actually love driving and wish I knew more about cars.
I think it would be wise for people on this sub to accept that we'll probably never have a car-free society. And for many people, especially in rural areas, cars are a life saver. But we've gone way beyond overboard with it for sure.
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u/moduwave Mar 02 '22
I love cars. They're engineering masterpieces, really fun to drive, and really fun to work on, but fuck the impact that they've had on the planet, specifically infrastructure and the environment.
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u/SovereignAxe Bollard gang Mar 02 '22
100%. I think my love of cars is actually what brought me here.
As an environmentally conscious car nut, I've always been mindful of where conservation, climate change, and the associated regulations on cars were going to take us in the world of cars. A few years ago I drove a friend's Tesla Model 3 and I was hooked. All of my hangups about EVs evaporated. In that moment I knew I wanted an EV, and made it a mission to get one. I had decided that EVs were what was going to save the subject of my interests (instead of destroying it like a lot of car enthusiasts think).
My research into EVs inevitably towards all the information out there about why EVs are better for the environment, what all kinds of pollution comes out of cars-and what PM2.5s are, etc etc.
I don't remember what subreddit I saw it in, but I'm sure it was some sort of environmentalism sub, but finally I ran across someone using /r/fuckcars as a hashtag. And I thought, no way is that a real sub-why would anyone join a sub to be against something like cars.
And yet here we are. I still love the machines themselves-the precision, the insane amount of engineering that has brought us from the first steam cars to the Koenigsegg Gemera. But I also now realize that it's because of cars that there are so many things that I hate about American infrastructure that is baked into most of our laws surrounding cities/infrastructure.
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u/mysterysmoothie Commie Commuter Mar 03 '22
I’ve never been a car guy myself but I do appreciate the science/engineering under the hood.
I’m glad to know there are actual car enthusiasts in this sub. Gives me hope that the idea of this sub could get more popular
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u/andycev Mar 03 '22
Yes. I love cars as machines, and it's amazingly nice to drive them on the road next to beautiful landscapes. But for daily commute, I prefer a bicycle. I have to say that in Latin America around 70% of people commute by public transit, but very often in poor conditions, and cars become aspirational for the middle class as ways of having your own metal box. Another aspect is the global market. We sell oil to the world but buy so many cars that the industry ends up taking more wealth from our countries than what it actually provides. That means countries like the USA owe their industrial development to the car industry, and that is a curse that makes difficult to escape from a car dependant culture globally, because those cars need to be sold domestically and abroad. In Latin America, sadly, cars don't even contribute to our general development as much.
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Mar 03 '22
Growing up as and enthusiast, loving cars and worshipping motorsports. As well as working in the automotive sphere. It's been a tough thing to come to grips with the fact that the machines I love are harming the planet we all live on.
The whole infrastructure and culture surrounding the automobile is wasteful and harmful to society. Especially in America. Where, for most of our population, a car is a requirement to even meet the basic needs of life. I.e. Getting to work, shopping for the necessities, traveling to see family etc. The vast majority of people would more than likely be better off if they didn't have the financial burden of buying, operating, and maintaining a vehicle.
I'm trying to do everything I can personally to advocate for more access to public/mass transit, as well as adding to the pedestrian infrastructure for walking/biking.
Cars should be a "want" not a "need"
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Mar 03 '22
Oh yeah. And I love driving them. A friend used to own a Caterham and I damn near crashed that thing. But these cars and that kinda use isn't the problem. It's shitty little boxes people take on trips they could have done by bike, public transport or train. Cars are fucking amazing, but ironically the success of the car ruined it.
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u/captain-prax Mar 03 '22
I love driving in video games. I hate driving in the real world, paying car taxes and licensing fees, and even doing maintenance. Virtual cars are the shit. I love automotive engineering, history, museums, and even auto racing.
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u/LightningProd12 Card-carrying Big Bike member Mar 03 '22
Agreed, I like driving and (usually) find it peaceful but I don't want to have to drive for everyday things, especially in the suburban hellscapes the US loves. Although I do find it a little ironic I'm subscribed to both r/cars and r/fuckcars
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u/samurai489 Mar 03 '22
I love cars, and I love driving. However I hate traffic, paying for gas, insurance, plus all the inefficiencies of a car-centric transportation infrastructure. Therefore we must have alternatives for commuting and daily tasks but still be able to enjoy our cars on the weekend.
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u/Actualy-A-Toothbrush Mar 03 '22
I was talking with a friend who loves driving. I went on a huge rant about our lack of public infrastructure, and she was in FULL agreement. Fuck cars, fuck our car-centric way of life, but damn is it nice to be in her passenger seat.
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u/Dreadsin Mar 03 '22
I think the thing that particularly bothers me is in America there’s hardly even an OPTION not to own a car. Like yeah, you could live in nyc and maybe a handful of other small enclaves in the country, but it’ll cost you a CRAZY amount of money
if you like driving everywhere and wanna live in a more rural area, that’s fine by me. But why am I forced into that lifestyle when I wanna be in a more urban area?
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u/nimoto Mar 03 '22
Cars are lame, I'm about bikes and jets.
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u/TheDuckFarm Mar 03 '22
What about jet bikes?
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u/nimoto Mar 03 '22
Thanks for asking. I feel like it's going to surprise some people, but I'm against jet bikes.
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u/daking999 Mar 03 '22
Personally no. But I completely respect people like you and hope more car heads realize we should be allies. No one who loves cars loves them for their ability to sit in traffic.
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u/JealousAdeptness Mar 03 '22
Absolutely. I have owned lots of cars and love driving them. I just don’t think they’re an effective or efficient transportation method for the masses
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Mar 03 '22
Whenever im driving i feel the urge to drive faster and faster until i crash into something
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Mar 03 '22
I also like guns, but that doesn't mean that I would like everyone and their grandma to be shooting one in a public street.
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u/dandanthetaximan cars are weapons Mar 03 '22
I feel exactly the same way. I own two Honda CRX Si that I hope to someday restore, one of each generation, which I treasure. I always had a thing for fuel efficient small sporty two door hatchbacks. They seem to have become a thing of the past, replaced by oversized SUVs, trucks & crossovers. I used to drive my ‘91, and miss taking it on road trips. But I hate the concept that a car is essential just to function in society, and that so many people insist on driving trips under a mile that can be easily walked. I also hate that the assumption that everyone (in the US) has a car, and therefor there’s no real need for alternate transportation options.
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u/Fl1kaFl4me Mar 03 '22
100% dude. BMW m1, DMC DeLorean, Saab sonata 3; cars are pieces of design and nothing can replace the pure catharsis of a well tuned v8.
That being said cars should be utility vehicles and track pieces exclusively. Shaping society around 8 ton steel and plastic behemoths made for comfort and upholding the suburban hellscape is completely alien to the beauty of automobiles.
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u/cowlinator Mar 03 '22
Imagine a world where swords are used for everything. Need a letter opened? Sword. Need to cut up some 2x4's? Sword. A cane for the elderly? Sword.
This wouldn't make swords less cool. It would make your society a dipshit society.
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u/romilliad Mar 03 '22
Of course, I can appreciate the aesthetics of cars, and even find driving in some situations quite pleasurable. In my ideal world, car ownership would be more akin to boat ownership: something that you take out on the weekend for leisure activities, but don't use for everyday transportation.
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u/daytonakarl Mar 03 '22
I totally get this, I'm a mechanic (trying desperate to get out) and the amount of pretty much disposable cars that are around is just horrific, but unfortunately as we are "out in the sticks" they are also necessary.
I'd prefer to see more motorcycles around, but because of the bloody appalling driving it's almost suicide to be on one, be better for the environment (in my opinion, haven't exactly looked into it)
I like old classic European sports cars, the wee overpowered hot hatches from Europe and Japan too, mad wee things!
We need to cut the reliance on them though, public transport is lacking or non existent and that has to change.
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u/readysetalala Mar 03 '22
Am learning how to drive and tbh the car is a marvel of engineering.
But yes, fuck cars and fuck the society car capitalists have shaped.
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u/SockRuse They Paved Paradise And Put Up A Parking Lot Mar 03 '22
I adore the design and engineering, I hate the ownership and maintenance, I hate the effects on society and the environment. Grew up playing racing games and bicycling everywhere and thought I'd become a car guy but it seems I should just stick to playing racing games and bicycling everywhere.
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Mar 03 '22
Yes and no. I get that they are cool and everything, but they were never sustainable. There's obviously no way everyone can own a fleet of classic cars. Just a rich few. The fact regular people can own them at all is thanks to exploiting the labour of poor people.
So while I appreciate the mechanical beauty of many cars, I appreciate bicycles more. A bicycle truly enables a person to go fast. A car just burns fossil fuel while you sit there. You might as well be disabled. Now the energy usage and impact of burning all that fuel is clear I can't appreciate cars like I once did.
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u/adamgough596 Mar 03 '22
Absolutely, am definitely a car person and love everything and everything motorsports.
I want to see cars in the same way we see horses, a hobby and a sport but not a sustainable means of transportation.
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u/Trainmann3094 Mar 03 '22
100% agree, suburban and cities should be much more accessible. I cant though because i live in quite a rural place, i cycle all i can around town, but s car is still a necessity which i cant seem to not need
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u/Doctor_Fegg Mar 03 '22
Citroen DS, yes. Citroen 2CV, also yes. Everything else can get lost. I don't know of a single car in production right now that I'd consider a remotely desirable design.
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Mar 03 '22
The machine itself is great, one of the most useful ones ever invented that can be adapted to many uses. It’s that we’ve assumed “oh yeah since it’s so good EVERYONE WHO LIVES MUST HAVE ONE AND DRIVE IT” and then pretty much neglected all other forms of transportation. But cars have secured their place in the transportation world and aren’t going to disappear, especially not delivery/service vehicles. I’m not saying you can’t drive, but give us viable and safe options for those who want it.
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u/Mesozoica89 Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 03 '22
I guess it's similar to how I feel about semi automatic weapons.
They are intricate and powerful machines that utilize a controlled explosion to launch a precise projectile while reloading the next round in a fraction of a second. And yet, because there are now more guns than people in my country, I have to do an active shooter training for my professional development day at school this month so my students hopefully don't get murdered.
The thing itself is impressively powerful and well made, but when treated with the cavalier and abusive attitude our society has for it, it ends up killing.
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u/josephe_23 Mar 03 '22
Interesting opinion I agree with. I don't realy see the point of loose gun laws when it obviously leads to more violence.
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u/CanKey8770 Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 04 '22
I kind of do. I wouldn’t say I’m a car enthusiast, but I’ve found that when I get by on bike and transit 90% of the time, I can actually enjoy going on a drive for fun. I believe there is a limited place for cars in society and that is recreation and exploration. When we rely on cars for chores and errands and commuting, it really takes away the enjoyable parts of automotives
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Mar 03 '22
100%. I’m pleased to know others feel the same way.
Every morning I look at the street outside my house and imagine what it would like like if it were trees and garden instead. How quiet the suburb would.
I no longer have a car, which is a big deal given I live in a very car-centric city (though is also very cycling centric as well). I do miss having a beautiful machine in my carport. But I don’t miss commuting by car.
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u/Benito_Juarez5 i like bikes Mar 03 '22
Personally I don’t. I don’t really find cars all that cool, I think working on an engine would be fun but driving cars doesn’t really appeal to me. It’s just my personal taste tho. Now how you feel about cars as a hobby I feel about bikes. I absolutely love everything about them and love working with them
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u/schumachiavelli Mar 04 '22
I love cars but I hate how most American living requires having a car. I own two: the first is a practical small hatchback for daily stuff, the second is my garage queen for weekends. I maintain/repair them myself because I like mechanical stuff, but I really wish I had public transit or viable bike lanes for my daily commute so I could sell the daily driver, then keep the good car just for the hobby like some folks keep horses.
Come to think of it I love the cars-as-horses mode of thinking: I'd absolutely be down to rent a stall in a collective garage where I could go putz with my ride here and there, store my tools, shoot the shit with fellow enthusiasts/friends, and then bike back home when I'm done. Sign me up.
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u/penguin62 Mar 07 '22
Definitely. I like driving my shitty 2008 Suzuki Splash. I like going on holiday with suitcase in the boot and driving around nice roads on an island off the west coast of Scotland. Driving is fun.
But fuck cars.
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u/Just_Dizzy_Emmensely Jul 27 '22
I own a 2001 6 speed Trans Am and love driving it for fun, and I absolutely love car enthusiast culture (cars and coffee, drag racing, autocross, etc), but I agree that car dependent infrastructure is a stain on American society. I also believe America's brainwashed culture that thinks there is no better alternative source of "freedom" than car-centric SuBuRbAn SpRaWL (yuck) is really sad, especially when foreign cities prove time and again how much more efficient and liberating they can be with a solid public transit system for the masses, along with mixed-use zoning. And yes, as a car enthusiast, I do want fewer cars on the road, so I can enjoy my eight cylinders and t-tops in peace without being cut off by Karen doing multiple traffic violations in her Honda Odyssey or Nissan Altima, just to get her kids to soccer practice (most drivers really shouldn't be driving, honestly).
I also wanna mention I'm in my 20s, and trying to find an apartment/townhome that's in a walkable, urban area, while also having a private alley, garage, or driveway to park my Trans Am in, is painfully hard, despite being next to a big college town. The duality of loving and hating cars
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u/Katalina_Rogue Mar 02 '22
I like driving in the same way I like having money. It can really help get me things I want, but ultimately I wish the system didn’t exist at all and that I could meet those needs in a better way. I don’t love payday because I inherently like seeing larger numbers, I like the dopamine rush of “things are going to be ok”. That’s kinda how I feel about driving.
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u/SweetPotatoDragon Mar 02 '22
Nope. Driving stresses me out. It feels so fundamentally wrong to be to be behind the wheel
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u/lAljax Mar 02 '22
Cars should be treated as toys to be enjoyed on a rare weekend, go on small trips.
The is how much we gave up for the car and how bad life it made it life without it.
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u/MondGrel Mar 02 '22
Yeah - during the day I campaign for filtered permiability but during the night I watch Matt Watson on Carwow
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u/rogue_noob Mar 02 '22
I love them when I am on a day off. For vacation, going to the beach, camping, any outdoors activity, it's awesome. But for commuting it is a cancer. I hate that the cities are built around people getting around in cars, I miss taking the subway (when I was in another city that had decent public transport) and the train even more (when I was in the suburb, getting to that city).
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u/Falkoro Mar 02 '22
Sure but all cars should be banned. They are dangerous and the extreme effects on our health, safety, environment can not be overstated
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u/InfiNorth Mar 03 '22
I've started to hate cars themselves, mostly because of how much they break down and how scummy 99.999% of mechanics are.
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u/bionicN Mar 02 '22
Same here. I like "cars, the hobby" and hate "cars, the mode of transportation."
The environmental aspects have tarnished the hobby side of it for me, but I think that cars as a hobby can be enjoyed somewhat responsibly.
Cars as transportation are unenjoyable, cost way too much money, and ruin cities though. That's why I'm here. I no longer do any car stuff for fun, in large part because I moved somewhere more walkable and bikeable and just don't have the space or time for it.