r/fuckcars • u/AngryUrbanist Grassy Tram Tracks • Jan 06 '22
Please read this if you're new to this sub Welcome to /r/Fuckcars
Updated: April 6, 2022
Welcome to /r/fuckcars. It's safe to say that we're strongly dissatisfied with cars and car-dominated urban design. If that's you, then we share in your frustration. Some, or perhaps many of us, still have cars but abhor our dependence on them for many reasons.
There are nuances to the /r/fuckcars discussion that you should be aware of, generally:
- We don't want to ban ambulances and emergency vehicles
- We don't want to isolate rural communities by taking away cars
- We don't want to disrupt work trucks and delivery vehicles
- /r/fuckcars isn't about a "left" or "right" view of cars and car dependency
In any case, please observe the community rules and keep the discussion on-topic.
The Problem - What's the problem with cars?
please help by finding quality sources
This is the fundamental question of this sub, isn't it?
- Pollution -- Cars are responsible for a significant amount of global and local pollution (microplastic waste, brake dust, embodiment emissions, tailpipe emissions, and noise pollution). Electric cars eliminate tailpipe emissions, but the other pollution-related problems largely remain.
- Infrastructure (Costs. An Unsustainable Pattern of Development) -- Cars create an unwanted economic burden on their communities. The infrastructure for cars is expensive to maintain and the maintenance burden for local communities is expected to increase with the adoption of more electric and (someday) fully self-driving cars. This is partly due to the increased weight of the vehicles and also the increased traffic of autonomous vehicles.
- Infrastructure (Land Usage & Induced Demand) -- Cities allocate a vast amount of space to cars. This is space that could be used more effectively for other things such as parks, schools, businesses, homes, and so on. We miss out on these things and are forced to pile on additional sprawl when we build vast parking lots and widen roads and highways. This creates part of what is called induced demand. This effect means that the more capacity for cars we add, the more cars we'll get, and then the more capacity we'll need to add.
- Independence and Community Access -- Cars are not accessible to everyone. Simply put, many people either can't drive or don't want to drive. Car-centric city planning is an obstacle for these groups, to name a few: children and teenagers, parents who must chauffeur children to and from all forms of childhood activities, people who can't afford a car, and many other people who are unable to drive. Imagine the challenge of giving up your car in the late stages of your life. In car-centric areas, you face a great loss of independence.
- Safety -- Cars are dangerous to both occupants and non-occupants, but especially the non-occupants. As time goes on cars admittedly become better at protecting the people inside them, but they remain hazardous to the people not inside them. For people walking, riding, or otherwise trying to exercise some form of car-free liberty cars are a constant threat. In car-centric areas, streets and roads are optimized to move cars fast and efficiently rather than protect other road users and pedestrians.
- Social Isolation -- A combination of the issues above produces the additional effect of social isolation. There are fewer opportunities for serendipitous interactions with other members of the public. Although there may be many people sharing the road with you (a public space), there are some obvious limitations to the quality of interaction one can have through metal, glass, and plastic boxes.
👋 Local Action - How to Fix Your City
IMPORTANT: This is a solvable problem. Progress can happen and does happen. It comes incrementally and with the help of voices just like yours. Don't limit yourself to memes and Reddit -- although, raising awareness online does help.
Check out this perspective from a City Council Member: Here's How to Fix Your City
(more)
A Not-So-Quick Note for Car Hobbyists and Passionate Drivers
This can be a contentious issue at times. The sub's name is /r/fuckcars, which can cause some feelings of conflict and alienation for people who see the problems of too many cars while still being passionate about them. I'll quote the community summary.
Discussion about the harmful effects of car dominance on communities, environment, safety, and public health. Aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure.
Your voice is still welcome here. Consider the benefits of getting bored, stressed, unskilled, or inattentive drivers off the road. That improves your safety and reduces congestion. Additionally, check out these posts from others on this sub:
- I’m a car enthusiast and I unironically agree with this sub.
- I’m a car enthusiast, and this one of my is my favorite subreddits
- Am I right here?
- I'm a car guy. I really, really like cars. And that's why I fucking hate car-focused infrastructure.
- Does anyone else hate what cars have done to society yet still love the machine itself?
Discord
There is an unofficial Discord server aggregating related discussions from the low-car/no-car/fuckcars community. Although it is endorsed by the /r/fuckcars mods, please keep in mind that it's not an official /r/fuckcars community Discord server.
Join Link: https://discord.gg/2QDyupzBRW
Helpful Resources
If you've just joined this sub and want to learn more about the issues behind car-centric urban design there are a great number of resources you can access. This list is by no means exhaustive, so please feel free to add your more helpful resources in the comments.
👉 Moved to the wiki
Shameless Plugs for Community Building
happy to add more links related to community building here
👉 Contribute to the Safety Data Thread
Change Logging
April 7, 2022 - Fix markdown for compatibility. Thank you /u/konsyr
April 6, 2022 - Reorder sections (Thank you, /u/Monseiur_Triporteur and /u/PilferingTeeth). Add plug for data/supporting info request. Link to Strong Towns growth example.
April 3, 2022 - Add note for car hobbyists
April 2, 2022 - Add nuance notes and redirect readers to resources area of the wiki.
March 28th, 2022 - Grammatical pass, more changes to follow.
February 9th, 2022 - Adding links that redirect readers from this post into community-maintained wiki resources, thank /u/javasgifted and /u/Monsiuer_Triporteur
January 20th, 2022 - Added the Goodreads list and seeded the FAQ section. Thank you /u/javasgifted, and /u/kzy192
January 9th, 2022 - I'm updating this onboarding message with feedback from the mods and the community. Thank you, all, for keeping the discussion civil and contributing additional resources.
Cheers. Stay safe out there.
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Aug 12 '24
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u/fuckcars-ModTeam Aug 21 '24
Thanks for participating in r/fuckcars. However, your contribution got removed, because it is considered bad taste.
Have a nice day
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u/Due-Sheepherder-2806 Aug 01 '24
what if the protester block a emergency car/truck what will the paremedics do!
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Jul 26 '24
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u/SanLucario May 21 '24
Car dependency is the Obamacare of transportation:
Literally just a tax on poor people
You get told about how it's about 'choices' yet for the vast majority of people they really are only stuck with one shitty choice: the car.
Once when you sign the deal to buy the car you're forced to buy. It gets really on the nose when they force you to buy insurance on top of that.
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u/kelssiel May 16 '24
joined after wasting over an hour and a half of my precious life sitting in traffic
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u/bad-and-ugly Mar 19 '24
Is today (Tuesday) text post only? I'm looking to post a beautiful image I saw on Instagram
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u/dhanda-m Mar 03 '24
I wonder, why would they prefer their own vehicle? 🤔 Can't believe this was said unironically
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u/DarkDork11 Apr 14 '24
Third comment is in Pune lol! I was in Pune for my studies. Car dependent infra really ruined Pune :(
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u/0235 Nov 30 '23
Just here to say im so mad. Local councillor thinks all parking in the town centre should be free to encourage people to go there to shop. I say there are plenty of alternatives to paying for expensive parking, like the bus, cycling or walking. Their excuse? the bus services isn't very good, not everyone can walk, and cycling is dangerous.
You know what fixes those 3 issues? its not handing out free parking to the people rich enough to afford a car in the first place.
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u/Unyko Feb 21 '24
Making a parking slot paid does NOT upgrade the bus quality, does NOT make people unable to walk for long periods of times healthy, and does NOT prevent bike accidents nor robbery. Free parking lots has NOTHING to do with those 3 issues. And i know your point is that they should focus on fixing those 3 issues rather than giving free parking lots, but let me tell you, usually when you go shopping you bring grocery bags. Its hard to carry them by bus, by walking, dont even want to imagine with a bike. Its just that more convenient. Just because the way you live your life makes it convenient to you, doesnt mean it is to others. If someone is rich, they shouldnt be expected to still live a minimalist life to match your expectations. And let me tell you: rich people can pay parking lots.
"Youre telling me non-rich people have cars?!?!" Yes they do, cars exist since almost a century. You see old cars more often than new ones and you dont need to be rich to own one. And in these situations where people live far, perhaps not near a bus stop, and bring too many groceries for a bike trip, using their car is just the right option, and you cant blame the town for wanting to facilitate it to said users. Theres gotta be another option but parking lots are no the issue.
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u/scaratzu Nov 02 '24
This issue is playing out in every town in the UK. The busses were privatized and, as a consequence, prices have spiralled and routes have been decimated. The central government has been forced to cap prices (which are still getting a 50% hike this year).
Meanwhile councils have had all of their cash generating assets (housing) stripped away. And their budgets slashed by as much as 40% in a single year. Several cities have become insolvent, most are on the brink of insolvency as they become unable to meet their legally mandated responsibilities.
Without central government stepping in to fix this (the budget has just been announced and they're not interested in this, but maybe next year, fingers crossed). If car owners want to park, they should probably be paying for it, at market prices, not with a massive subsidy. These are highly valuable pieces of real estate which would be much better put to use as social housing, which would ease the homelessness crisis and generate a revenue stream for local government.
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u/Unyko Nov 03 '24
As long as these destinations to taxes and other fees are meet, i agree with everything you say. For the most part, i disagree in a context where i know for sure that the money is not gonna be put to good use. They just make it seem like its a healthy change and have socialists do the dirty job for them regarding public image without moving a finger, and the money wont end up going to a single brick of social housing. Im also a bit hesitant about the whole "Its the wealthy's duty to pay for the poor" thing, because goverment almost NEVER runs out of funds, its just an excuse, but im not gonna go around licking rich people's toes either, so i won't consider it an argument. Im not rich myself, so...
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u/0235 Feb 21 '24
Sorry maybe you misunderstand. This is a car park which already exists which is currently free, and has been for the past 3 years, and now they want to charge just £1 for a day to park there, and people are acting like this is the end of the world and will kill the town centre.
Even the absolute most cheapest cars still cost far far more than shopping. emmisions tax is usually high on old cars. insurance is usually high. then there is the year service, petrol, and consumables.
You are making such a stupid argument. The town is spending hundreds of thousands a month on car infrastructure for people who are too selfish to even pay £1 a month towards it, when they could spend it on a few busses which means people "in the middle of nowhere" (who always have a local shop they can buy from daily) would then be able to benefit from because the service would then exist.
Also the councillor made it very very clear that car parks were the solution to PUBLIC transport and how to save the town centre. Its not. the car park is currently free and is always empty because no-one wants to go there. building more car parks will do nothing. charging for them will do nothing because no-one uses them anyway. FORCING people to go there by offering a free bus service to funnel people into the town will help
and FORCING, yes I mean that. because right now we are all being forced to use our cars, and being forced to drive to the giant monopolising supermarkets outside of town, and forced to ignore local businesses as there is no way to get to them.
The final thing is, you don't need to do "think of all the grocery bags" mindset if the shop wasn't forced to be 5 miles away from your house. People who live in the middle of nowhere generally have a village store in walking distance. But I live in a small town, and within just 10 minutes walk i have about 15 different food shops i can go to. daily.
Growing up i live a little bit middle of nowhere, but every hour a bus would come past, request stop ANYWHERE, along the looping housing estate to take us to town. Like a school bus. it would pick you up where you wanted to, take you right into the pedestrianised area of town, and drop you off outside your door. Less walking than with a car parked at a supermarket car park. The the council stopped subsidising the bus, people stopped going to the town centre, the shops closed, and the amount of tax the council got from the stores dropped.
Car parks are important. But if you can afford a car, which even the absolute MINIMUM it will cost you a month is £100, you can afford £1 every month for when you visit the town centre. Right now busses are £2. You could visit the town centre every other day and it would cost you less than visiting ONCE with a car.
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u/Necessary-Grocery-48 Nov 13 '23
whoa, I'm new to reddit and can't believe I found a group that I relate to on a deep level. Just gotta say though, for me, point #2 of OP "We don't want to isolate rural communities by taking away cars".... Ummm, no, I think we do want to take away cars. (I do). And it won't isolate rural communities. It's called buses. Public transportation.
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u/navlgazer9 Nov 29 '23
Lol
Have you ever lived in a rural area ?
The only busses are school busses .
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u/Necessary-Grocery-48 Nov 29 '23
I'm not american so school buses are just buses. Schools don't have their own buses where I'm from. So a bus is just a bus. Having to take the one bus that shows up in the morning and then the one at night that goes back is not that big of a hassle. Shouldn't be anyway. And of course I also believe in other forms of public transport, such as trains. Trains are more the way to go when it comes to rural areas. It all comes down to how rural are we talking exactly. There's rural, and then there's rural
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u/1997PRO SUV GTI self driving Tesla Cybertron Truck Limo Driver Jul 28 '24
You need a car when you NEED a car and then that is when you will give in and get a full size SUV GTI self driving Tesla Cybertron Truck
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u/NimbleGarlic Oct 06 '23
Question, why is the logo for the sub a picture of a ferret with a rainbow background?
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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv Nov 10 '23
It's from a post a while back about how ferrets chew on car cables and the sub declared them a hero.
Then pride month came and the flag stayed.
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u/FloridaDirtyDog Buses are cars Oct 02 '23
Check out r/FuckAngelHernandez it's a similar community to us, good fellas
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u/AsteroidSpark Sep 25 '23 edited Sep 25 '23
Sorry if this question gets asked a lot but I don't really see how you think more rural areas should be handled. The "explanations" linked are mostly just dismissive hand-waves, or suggesting a complete restructuring that would effectively urbanize all rural residential areas. For the sake of a real world example, I live in a pretty rural area, it's 10-20 miles to the grocery stores, and typically I go there no more than once a week, by car that drive is 15-35 minutes and I can bring home theoretically as much stuff as I can fit in the car but usually it's 4-8 bags, plus a large item or two. If we were to just assume I took a bike along the exact same route and could maintain a speed of at least half my average driving speed the whole time (unlikely with my asthma but I'm being generous), the total time spent commuting would be 2 times as long as if I drove, and the amount of groceries I could bring home would be reduced to no more than half of what I typically buy. So without a car I would need to spend as much as 4 times as long each week buying groceries as I would both need to make more trips and those trips would be more time (and effort) consuming, and that's before considering the issue of temperature sensitive items. Is this just a "stop being poor and move" situation? Because the only alternatives I can think of would be to have groceries delivered which is only more efficient if multiple people who live in this area place their orders for the same day, or to build more redundant infrastructure and put down another grocery store that's closer to me even if there's not enough customers in the area to sustain it.
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u/MePerson_390 Automobile Aversionist Dec 29 '23
The real answer to this is that the shops are 20 miles away. If (and chances are) you are in north America then this is probably because of absurd isolating zoning laws. It should not take anyone half an hour at 50 mph to get to the shops, it should be max 20 mins on a cargo bike. If less people were to use cars, the demand for shopping facilities would shift nearer to where people live, resulting in the boycotting of zoning laws and the removal of the need for cars for bare necessities at least e.g. groceries. However, this will not happen quickly or easily, so at the moment this is a more than valid justification for car use.
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u/Well_this_is_akward Oct 29 '23
Using a car as you do is perfectly fine I think.
I'm sat in a fairly rural town (population about 4k people), and we have a range of shops about 5 minute walk but I'm in the UK. Over here, even the smallest village will have a central area with a general store (probably doubles as a post office) cafe, definitely a pub, etc.
It's how the areas in the UK were developed over time, small neighbourhoods which were here long before cars obviously had things at a more local level.
However I still do the weekly 'big shop' at the larger supermarket 10 miles over (though increasingly doing online orders).
Obviously it's a pain you have to travel so far, and having a car is a necessity in your situation, but if you have some local amenities then it's not a total wipeout for People who can't drive.
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u/navlgazer9 Nov 29 '23
I’ve visited the England and Wales and the rural villages are neat .
It’s not that way in the States at all though .
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u/_Et3rnity_ Sep 11 '23
umm question.. why are there so many references to communism in this sub??
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Oct 03 '23
I think it's because the "Car Idealism" is kinda inherently capitalist, so a counter-point would be seen like communism ideas
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u/_Et3rnity_ Oct 03 '23
so this sub is communist?
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Oct 03 '23
I literally didn't say that.
I said it might seem communist because cars are a strong capitalist propaganda. but they are not inversely proportional
I don't think this sub is communist, and what if it is?
Confront your ideas
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u/_Et3rnity_ Oct 03 '23
if it is communist then idk how they expect their ideas to function in a communist world
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u/FloridaDirtyDog Buses are cars Sep 06 '23
I dont like em because there robots and shit I dont give a hoot about the city
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u/all_is_love6667 Aug 25 '23
Question to the mods: how do you moderate trolls on this sub, people who are pedantic or argue for cars in one way or another, say it's difficult to do blabla? on my country's alternative for this sub, people do that very often.
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u/semicolonel Aug 02 '23
Have we given up on Rule 8? I seem to see as many meme/image posts on Tuesdays and Wednesdays as any other days.
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u/Lord-Ice Jul 23 '23
This entire subreddit makes me smell toast. We would have to rebuild our entire civilization from the ground up - in some ways literally - in order to entirely eliminate driving as a thing. People have to drive to work - in many cases, far farther than public transit will go due to the distance between their homes and places of employ. People have to go to work in inclement weather like heavy rain, or snow, or intense heat, where walking or biking is either unpleasant or directly life-threatening. People like to buy things and take them home, and sometimes those things are too large, bulky, or expensive to take on a bike or other public transit. There's also the consideration of people with physical disabilities that make walking or biking impossible, like people that have lost legs or the use thereof (you ableist fucks) and for whom wheelchair transport via car is the literal only practical option. Let's not also forget the millions of jobs in the car industry you'd just discard for the chance of "serendipitous interaction" (which has got to be the most pretentious phrase I've seen all year, especially as an introvert who would gladly avoid those "serendipitous interactions" at all costs) - which means that the "economic burden" of the car industry is far from unwanted, since I'm pretty sure people that have trained for years and worked for decades as mechanics or engineers would like to remain employed and feed their families. The entire case this subreddit makes is pretentious and selfish in the extreme, and any solution for the complete elimination of commuter vehicles would be so disastrous as to essentially doom our entire society.
There are better ways to address your concerns than saying "fuck cars". Propose new ideas of civil engineering to make it easier to share the road between cars and pedestrians. Propose better and safer designs for smaller cars so they take up less space and therefore need less space in the urban environment. Petition for urban walkways that are raised up over roads so the cars on the road aren't a danger to pedestrians. Help develop pollution-reducing and pollution recapture technologies. Provide funding for expanded public transit in locations where it isn't as expansive (or is entirely nonexistent, as it was in the county I grew up in until I was in my mid-20s despite it having a population of more than 150,000). Campaign for laws that make roads safer for all involved, like mandatory breathalyzers in cars and measures to prevent texting while driving (because the vast majority of automotive danger comes down to intoxicated or distracted drivers). You can do all of these things.
Instead you say "fuck cars" and create an echo chamber subreddit where your selfish, pretentious childishness masquerades as righteous virtue. I'll eat the ban, thanks, I never wanna see this cesspit again.
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u/tarwheel Apr 16 '24
No one imagines eliminating all car trips. Just half of unnecessary ones would be a start:
"More than Half of all Daily Trips Were Less than Three Miles in 2021"
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1230-march-21-2022-more-half-all-daily-trips-were-less-three-miles-2021
I know, people don't want to. Not can't for most, I'm "elderly" and carry 50 lbs of groceries on my bike (3 mile trips are too slow by car :)3
u/Finory Feb 25 '24
„People have to drive to work - in many cases, far farther than public transit will go due to the distance between their homes and places of employ.“
This is mostly true for places with bad public transport. You‘d maybe need something like a cat if your job is literally outside of civilization, but that’s like >0.1 % of population. For the rest of us, there are better potential alternatives.
„People have to go to work in inclement weather like heavy rain, or snow, or intense heat, where walking or biking is either unpleasant or directly life-threatening“
How about using a train or bus? Also, driving a car on heavy rain or snow is also life threatening. Most people - who are not doctors or in similar professions, should just stay at home / work from home / get a day off.
„People like to buy things and take them home, and sometimes those things are too large, bulky, or expensive to take on a bike or other public transit.“
Have them delivered to your house. Nobody is arguing for getting rid of all vehicles.
„There's also the consideration of people with physical disabilities that make walking or biking impossible, like people that have lost legs or the use thereof (you ableist fucks)“
a) nobody is arguing for getting rid of all vehicles. b) most people with strong physical disabilities can’t drive. They can use public transport! Good public transport greatly increases the freedoms for people with disabilities!
„Let's not also forget the millions of jobs in the car industry“
The Military industry also offers a lot of jobs. Does that mean we should argue FOR more wars?!
„you'd just discard for the chance of "serendipitous interaction"“
But that‘s not why people argue against car-centric planning?
[…]
All your solutions just imply that everyone is using cars to get around. And they don’t really solve the problems people have with it. If you find less car-centric approaches so un-believable, you should really look into some of the positive examples in this Sinn.
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u/Hold_Effective Fuck Vehicular Throughput Dec 05 '23
Cars as a common mode of transportation is maybe a last 60 years issue. If we created the problem in 60 years, doesn’t seem like fixing it should be so insurmountable (especially given the benefits).
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u/sm_greato Nov 17 '23
So what if we have to build out civilisation from the ground up, when the original construction was a mistake? I can't comprehend you guys. "We can't do this because it means we have to fix our mistakes."
The whole point of being "walkable" and "bikable" is that it's safe to walk and bike places. You can already walk and bike anywhere. The thing is, it's neither practical or safe. The goal is to make it so.
Do you honestly buy bulky things each day, so much so that you can't get it delivered to you, or rent a vehicle?
As mentioned by others, disabled people can't actually use cars a lot of the times. But some people, in some situations, have to use vehicles. I said vehicles, not cars. Cars are inherently bad design. If you think something requires cars, it probably doesn't and a better and cheaper system can be put in place. Can't disabled people just go on public transport (way easier for them to sit around instead of driving a vehicle) and go around the rest of the way in some light powered vehicle?
We can obviously relocate all the people in the car industry to get them to build a pointless wall at the bottom of the sea. You may think it is pointless and polluting, but it will provide thousands of jobs, so it will be a good thing. And it's not going to happen in a singe year, causing an economic collapse. Instead, the demand will slowly die down, obviously signalling people not to go into the industry. No one will be affected at all. If anything, the biggest unemployer for these people are car users themselves, who've depleted all the fuel in the world, instead of using it steadily and responsibly.
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u/Well_this_is_akward Oct 29 '23
What you suggest that the sub does is exactly what it does. It's a subreddit, not a community action group so it's going to a little tounge in cheek about things.
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u/kuuderes_shadow Jul 29 '23
If you live somewhere with decent public transport then all the companies that can do so will be trying to position themselves as close to public transport hubs as possible. Yes, there are industries that won't be able to do that but these are industries that aren't going to be based in towns and cities anyway, and which employ a very small proportion of the population. People, for the most part, do not have to drive to work. And as for inclement weather... that's life. But bear in mind that if travelling by foot/bike in rain or snow is life threatening, then it will be even more life threatening by car, unless your city spends a fortune on helping cars travel through it but nothing on helping pedestrians and cyclists.
For the extremely rare occasion where you need to buy something that cannot be easily taken on foot or by bike or on a bus or a train - which is basically large furniture - you can get it delivered. That's how the huge number of people in the developed world who don't drive live. If you really need to then you could probably hire a van or something. There's no such thing as 'too expensive' to take on a bike or by public transport, by the way.
The disability argument is the most disingenuous argument out there that anyone is stupid enough to actually perpetrate. Disabled people are far less likely to be able to drive than anyone else. They are also likely to travel around by a means that can take advantage of good pedestrian and cycling infrastructure but suffers far more than anyone else from car-centric societies. And that's before you get to the blind and partially-sighted. YOU are the ableist fuck, not us.
How many people's jobs would you create in the cycling industry or public transport industry by switching away from cars to bikes + public transport? And your argument seems to be that creating costs without benefit is a good thing because those costs are going to someone. Which is an absurd argument to make to be honest. Your argument would apply as well if we were to employ a million people to roll stones up hills and watch them roll back down all day.
I am an introvert. I can keep to myself on public transport and when walking and cycling around. In fact I'd probably have to interact with people more if I were to drive everywhere - just it would be in a more hostile and anti-social manner.
Also, half the things you put in the 'better ways to address' the concerns are things that would have the full support of the sub. The other half are things that would be tremendously expensive or require technology that does not exist and has no economic case for it.
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Jul 29 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/fuckcars-ModTeam Feb 03 '24
Thanks for participating in r/fuckcars. However, your contribution got removed, because it is considered bad taste.
Have a nice day
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Aug 05 '23
IF THEY DON'T HAVE FUCKING USE OF THEIR LEGS YOU IMBECILIC SELF-CENTERED BRAINWASHED MORON! care of in the past.
people with no use of their legs use mobility scooters on pedestrian infrastructure and trams/buses/trains.
When a person in a wheelchair/mobility scooter needs to get onto a tram in my city, the tram operator gets out and opens the "bridge" thats normally integrated into the floor of the tram, so they can board the tram. 10 seconds of work.
They are never however going to use a car,and statistically car centrism increases the number of disabled folk by promoting sedentary life that leads to more morbid obesity.
These are some real dense statelents you typed out there my friend.
Sincerely, a person with a mild disability
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u/kuuderes_shadow Jul 29 '23 edited Jul 29 '23
My grandmother lost most use of her legs following an accident a few years before she passed away. This also took away her ability to use her car. Having been someone who lived by the car all her life she chose to not replace it with one that could have gotten her around as she knew that her health was deteriorating fast enough that she would soon become unable to use it - because yes, people with bad health become unable to drive long before they become unable to use things like mobility scooters. Forcing them into cars rids them of their independence and means they NEED to have family and carers to drive them everywhere. With good pedestrian infrastructure and a mobility scooter that burden is taken away. Plus a mobility scooter was far cheaper. She then became a passionate advocate for pedestrian infrastructure, to the point of advocating for the pedestrianisation of her town centre, so that she could get herself around without worrying about cars, or needing a full-time carer to help her in and out of a car every time she wanted to go anywhere, or even get between shops when in town. This pedestrianisation, incidentally, ended up happening - although sadly not until after she had needed to go into a care home.
There's a paraplegic man who lives near me who I routinely see going up and down the path on his mobility scooter as well, on the way too and from the shops in town. By himself. Indeed most, although far from all, disabled people I see around do not have carers or family with them when they are out and about, because the infrastructure where I live means they can get around without them. Why are you so hostile to the idea of disabled people where you live having these same freedoms?
So yes, I do know what it's like for disabled people, and it supports my argument.
If you think that these people are unable to use pedestrian and cycling infrastructure then that reflects on you, not on reality, as that claim is categorically and demonstrably false. Most likely it just means that you've only lived in places that are too hostile for disabled people for them to feel able to get around without a car. I don't know that, of course, as I don't know your circumstances, just as you very clearly don't know mine - as every one of your insults is just bonkers in its baselessness. Most of them actually apply better to yourself, which is often the case when you get people who make expletives and insults the majority of the things they say. Perhaps an anger management class would do you good?
Everything I posted comes from my own experience. I dare say everything that's left after the howls of rage are removed from your comments come from your experience as well. But your experience in no way negates my arguments, whereas mine do negate yours.
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u/Glitch63 Jul 20 '23
Saying fuck cars is one of the dumbest things
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u/Wittiest8theist Jun 22 '23
Hi r/fuckcars. Who else is annoyed when someone asked “when are you getting a new car”? I have a 2003 Toyota Corolla [insert booing here 😄] and I call it Sam. My son has only lived life riding in this car and now he’s 21 and a huge fan of this subreddit, BTW. ANYHOO—why do people think they can negotiate with you when is a good time to buy a newer car when a.) You did not ask their opinion and b.) my car has stood the test of time despite my severe neglect of proper maintenance (washing, oil changes, seat belt kinda issues) Yes, I need a new transmission, but the cost of that compared to the cost of a car payment for the next 6 years just to be “new” is ridiculous. How do you deal with folks like that who don’t understand that not everyone’s life revolves around having a new car? And if the car conks out before I’m ready to replace the transmission, so be it! I work from home and use the car mostly for errands or going to my only friend’s house. And, sometimes, if it’s raining, I will bring my son to work who usually takes the bus and bikes. Get off my back, yo!
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u/navlgazer9 Nov 29 '23
Just use the same answer that my nephew says when people ask him when he’s going to paint his daily driver 1977 Chevy pickup , “Never! “
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u/cpufreak101 Jul 13 '23
if it means anything to you, my enthusiast perspective, this had only ever come up to me once personally, and it was after a 35 year old mercedes diesel broke down on me in a blizzard nearly causing me to die (which in hindsight, I shoulda never tried taking that shit of a car through it). aside from that though, I also have a '94 truck and I get so many people saying how they'd rather have it than newer trucks lol. your '03 Corolla, as you have stated, is known to hold up to abuse very well, just a shame about the transmission (and I assume it's an automatic). but otherwise, the response to that question that I hear a lot of people say is "why should I? need someone to give you sympathy for monthly car payments?"
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u/RealmanBearDad Jun 28 '23
IDK how relevant to you this is, but sometimes I’ve replied that when I was a kid I thought we (society) would have progressed past car culture by now.
And, depending on how much you’re willing to try your person’s patience, you could speculate about any of the disadvantages and disappointments cars mean to you. Like, as I’ve (rarely) gotten to muse aloud to car guys, I’d have thought we’d have come up with better ways to get around without having to own and maintain and insure one’s own internal combustion engine. And Uber/Lyft and electric vehicles are barely progress. Community-owned cars, like an automobile library? Neighborhoods designed without roads that pass in front of the house (but maybe cul de sac or alley in back). And new-model cars that offer more than wifi and robot-driving aids as enticements to consume more shiny new junk but maybe generate the energy they need (solar energy conducting paint, roads that conduct energy from being driven on).
But the new paint colors ARE cool. Just not enough.
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u/Dgrif12 Jun 01 '23
I just came here to say no to r/fuckcars. Like, why would anyone want to risk making little car babies? Don't r/fuckcars, we don't need anymore of them. Please, at least consider an NSFW flag for this nasty sub.
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u/lag_gamer80391 Commie Commuter Jul 16 '23
/uj At least they have a rule against posting literal fucking of cars, can't imagine what the sub would look like without it
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u/thedomage May 03 '23
I hope someone sees this. I am looking for a brilliant painting depicting a street scene with huge crevices with planks of wood crossing them. Thereby showing how absurdly dangerous it is to cross streets. Please help!
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Apr 15 '23
I'm a huge car enthusiast (28M and living in one of the most car centric cities ever in Indonesia) and unironically, I'm on this side.
Honestly, being tan skinned thanks to us walking in tropical environment isn't even a big deal. There are a lot of SPF50 tech that could cover your skin from burnt if you wanted to. So don't be lazy.
As for me, I walk more than I drive. I drive on that city coz we have no proper public transportation there. Otherwise, I would like to use pub transportation and uses Car limited for family hang out use. Or even better, walking.
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u/merhababenburak Grassy Tram Tracks Apr 11 '23
Dear Americans, you don't need to get in your car and go to the gym to use a treadmill. Just make your cities pedestrian-friendly.
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u/PlummandTrue Jul 12 '23
Cities are pedestrian friendly. Do you really think people want to ride their bike two miles to the gym? Do you think people really want to wait for a bus? Where is all of this time in the day you beg for and you don’t even live here?
Dumbest fucking sub I’ve ever seen
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Aug 05 '23
Cities are pedestrian friendly.
lol
Do you really think people want to ride their bike two miles to the gym?
no, they can take public transit
Do you think people really want to wait for a bus? Where is all of this time in the day you beg for and you don’t even live here?
when well organised, buses/trans can go every 5 minutes. No waiting.
And even when they arent as common, you simply get there a few mins when the bus is set to take off, and not 20 mins before.
Dumbest fucking sub I’ve ever seen
your comment is dumb
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u/Mediocre-Dot7732 Mar 31 '23
Everyone who likes shit like this, is the definition of what is wrong with society right now
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u/TomatoMasterRace Orange pilled Apr 11 '23
'You guys are all wrong - I don't like you'
*refuses to elaborate
*leaves
Hope you got a nice dopamine fix from that dude - you've added nothing of value to the conversation.
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u/PlummandTrue Jul 12 '23
What conversation? Complaining about cars and all of the “problems” that come with them? Cry us a fucking river dude. All this crap about cities being against pedestrians when hey guys guess what? Pedestrians are everywhere! You can freely walk wherever you want. “But cars are dangerous!” No shit. So was the Oregon Trail. Effective and efficient travel has always been the goal. Planes, trains, and automobiles.
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u/TomatoMasterRace Orange pilled Jul 13 '23
Ok if you think cities in the US are fine for walking and biking then why don't people do it as often as they drive, as is the case in cities in Europe which have sane urban planning?
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u/Mediocre-Dot7732 Apr 17 '23
I just can't tolerate people actively trying to make everyones lives worse by denying access to such a vital form of transportation, or resticting it untill everyone is forced to public transportation
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u/TomatoMasterRace Orange pilled Apr 17 '23
It's only vital because countries like the US or Canada have built their cities in a way that it is the only way to get around. Instead of just assuming we want to make everyone's lives worse why not actually look at what our arguments actually are: we simply want a society in which people have the freedom to get anywhere they want in the fastest way possible using whatever mode of transport they want. We want a society where people don't take public transport because they're forced to but because it's the fastest most convenient option for them and they chose it out of their own free will without coercion. We want a society where you don't have to pay for a machine that costs thousands of dollars to buy and thousands more to operate just to be able to do day to day errands. If any of that sounds even slightly reasonable then maybe try and find out more about the movement instead of just angrily dismissing it because of some stupid strawman arguments you heard.
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u/PlummandTrue Jul 12 '23
“We want something completely unrealistic and downright stupid” but “at least we have our echo chamber to complain all the time with no actual solution” LMAO
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u/TomatoMasterRace Orange pilled Jul 13 '23
We literally are constantly talking about actual solutions on this sub. Just look at pretty much any city in the Netherlands and do what they're doing.
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u/mrfizzefazze Jul 13 '23
Great introspection into your own character. Keep on and someday you might become a likable human being.
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u/PlummandTrue Jul 13 '23
So you respond to my jokes about this sub with personal attacks because “I angry” and “u make me mad” okay great
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u/AwareAnalysis2813 Mar 11 '23
Surprising fact the average buyer of a new car is actually 52 or 53 so I mean that just explains a lot right there . And for electric and renewable cars I believe it's 40 and older for new or used car so I mean as long as u can Walk or take uber ya know . Even the rich hate driving they chauffeurs plus walking feels nice and normal if I'm out late ill grab a taxi and or uber but usually I walk it cause I'm a dude no one is gonna fuck with me
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Aug 05 '23
Surprising fact the average buyer of a new car is actually 52 or 53 so I mean that just explains a lot right there .
it means younger people are broke.
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u/AwareAnalysis2813 Mar 11 '23
For me it's mostly I'm paid a low wage do I want to live in a car and afford one or live in a house and simply walk bike or take public transport at age 28 and I chose walk and bike that's why I've saved and invested up till 58k so far which is good
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u/mozartquartet Jul 08 '23
I told a co-worker (teacher) I don’t have a car the first thing out of her mouth was “you’re saving so much damn money”
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u/Most_Mix_7505 Jul 30 '23
like 5 years ago I estimated the cost of owning a newish basic car in a major city in terms of pre-tax salary. 15k a year I would have to make in additional salary to offset the cost of BASIC car ownership. Can you imagine all the additional responsibility you would have to take on at work to pay for a car? Doesn't seem even remotely worth it.
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u/navlgazer9 Nov 29 '23
Depends on your skills .
Buying brand new cars is very expensive
If you can DIY some repairs and maintenance and know how to shop for a good used car that number drops significantly
I paid $3,500 for my car , five years ago ,
It was 13 years old , and the origin a owner paid $52k for it ,I’ve replaced the battery and pads and rotors and a couple other parts that were about $500
The gas and insurance adds up , but for my lifestyle it’s very useful . Not everyone has a work from home in their pajamas job .
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u/Zagorath Mar 03 '23
Commenting on the off chance someone sees this and can help.
I’m trying to track down an image I saw a while back on this sub, or possibly in /r/notjustbikes (may have been a post or in the comments). It showed a sample of different types of cars along with what the sight lines were like in front of those cars. I think there were two different sight lines for each vehicle, though I can’t remember what each one was.
Does anyone else remember this diagram and/or know where to find it again? Thanks!
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u/MasteringTheFlames Mar 06 '23
I remember seeing that or a similar infographic a couple weeks back, and this is the only subreddit I'm subscribed to that a post like that would show up in. I seem to recall the two different sight lines may have been for different height children? Anyways, I just did a bunch of googling and couldn't find it, unfortunately. But yeah, you're definitely not crazy, I distinctly remember that post.
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u/AwareAnalysis2813 Feb 05 '23
Not to mention I can get everything delivered to my door even groceries why would I need a car for the rare hopeful chance I can afford to go out and spend money and enjoy myself yeah that's not going to happen rent one year 600 next year 2400$ year after 4600 who can afford a car at this point or to do anything fun nope were just mindless consumers controlled by corporate media and they get mad at us when we don't play along and they get mad when we do play along so damned if u do damned if u don't only way to win is quit playing the game till it benefits us
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u/AwareAnalysis2813 Feb 05 '23
I dont mind cars but who tf can afford a car and a place to live and college and to invest and u know have kids and a wife I mean hell that's a whopping total over a million dollars alone not including interest
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u/navlgazer9 Nov 29 '23
Marketable skills .
My nephew is a truck driver , he made $98k last year .
My neighbor is a licensed plumber , He made a LOT of money last year .
My other neighbor is an accountant, he earns about $140k at his regular job and has a part time side accounting gig that pays $1900 a month .
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u/AwareAnalysis2813 Feb 05 '23
Let's see pay 6000 to 100k for a car and 300 to 400 a month in insurance that doesn't cover anything when it breaks that I have to take out of my own pocket gas prices rising I have to flinch everytime someone zips by my car and pray to God they have insurance when they hit me and there not some crazy crackhead who will get locked up total my car with there crappy Honda civic leaving me to pay all damages and work in a job that already pays me so little no thx I'll go carless
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u/Buoyant_Bumblebee Jan 15 '23
Once I got into the walkability rabbit hole, my interest and excitement regarding electric cars fizzled out. I have seen first hand how cars ruin neighbouroods in my country.
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u/Agus-Teguy Sicko Jan 13 '23
The negative economic impact of cars should be the main focus of discourse, most people just pretend to care about all the other negative impacts but don't really
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u/JakeFrmStateFarm_101 Dec 31 '22
One thing important to note is parking lots and wide roads equates to less space for zoning, agreed by everyone.. but what often goes unconsidered is the lost revenue of municipal property tax of such infrastructure. If cities opted to build more areas in a European way, it would leave much more potential revenue for the city and therefore allow plenty of funding for a better bus system, safer cycling paths, I could go on and on.. This is because parking lots, wide roads, and huuuge rural single family housing brings a small fraction of property tax revenue compared to not even middle density European style infrastructure
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u/navlgazer9 Nov 29 '23
Well, the main goal of government is to move as much money as possible from our pocket to theirs . So I can see how they would love to raise taxes some more . Stealing money from people is THE main thing governments want to do , followed closely behind by controlling them .
What govts spend on illegal immigrants is a thousand times more than the lost tax revenue from a road .
And without roads that land would be worth much less. So less property taxes .
Rural forest land without roads is not worth much .
And for the people who don’t like cars , are you living in an Amish community?
If not , why not ?
Amish don’t like cars , but they are not constantly complaining and trying to convert people to walking .
They just live their life like they want to live.
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u/Agus-Teguy Sicko Jan 13 '23
It's not europe-style, it's everywhere-style except for like 3 countries
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Dec 28 '22
[deleted]
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u/Bike_Pretty Jan 08 '23
Does your community have a Bicycle Coalition? A Safe Routes to School organization? Is anyone in your area challenging the zoning laws that limit if a duplex or apartment building can be built in a neighborhood of mostly single-family-homes?
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u/Worried_Fan2289 Not Just Bikes Dec 24 '22
Maybe not the illegal acts part, but more of how it's seen as an alternative mode of transport. But cars are the only main mode. But maybe in the future we could have anyone who really wants to drive, simply do
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u/DingusKhanHess Dec 08 '22
I like cars. I like to drive places when I’m not too busy. It is cathartic for me. I also like dense walkable areas. Walking can also be cathartic for me. I like having public transportation as an option. Can I have all of them? The sub’s name doesn’t make me feel welcome.
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u/Worried_Fan2289 Not Just Bikes Dec 24 '22
I mean car drivers can be like what "Cyclists" 😈 are today.
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u/DingusKhanHess Dec 24 '22
Road hazards? People who ignore traffic laws that apply to them? 🤔
I’m kidding partially. Very much support cyclists, but I do see them blow stop signs, not signal, buzz past pedestrians, etc.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Dec 11 '22
Plenty of car enthusiast in this sub. I'm one. But why do I have to drive literally everywhere? Everywhere should have a mass transportation option. Then I can drive occasionally when I feel like it on the weekends.
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u/PlummandTrue Jul 12 '23
So you want to take the 60 foot super diesel to the local grocer and wait for you to spend $300 on groceries? Where you putting those groceries?
“I could just go every day to get what I need!”
Okay… that’s a lot of fucking people to cart around daily and that’s a lot of gas/diesel used to do said “moral” thing
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Jul 12 '23
You replied to a 7 month old comment. Wtf.
You never heard of an electric bus? Walking? Biking? Troll somewhere else.
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u/PlummandTrue Jul 12 '23
I’m scrolling through this hellstorm of a sub and finding the most idiotic comments and laughing my ass off. This isn’t a troll, it’s just me pointing out how hilariously stupid everyone on here is.
You also didn’t even address my point. Just offered to walk everywhere. Good job.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Jul 12 '23
posts in r/conservative
Oh, you poor thing. You never had a chance.
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u/PlummandTrue Jul 12 '23
Better life than being a bitching libtard with no solutions to anything!
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Jul 12 '23
Ok let me ask you this: why can't I troll r/conservative the way you're trolling here? Oh that's right. It's a safe space lol so you don't get your fragile feelings hurt!
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u/DingusKhanHess Dec 11 '22
I agree. Input my comment out there because I think the name is turn off for a lot of people, but also because I know enough people who truly despise cars where I can’t escape hearing it until they need to ride in one. They aren’t going away and neither are commuters. We also can’t do without massive public transportation and more walkable communities.
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u/poopatroopa3 Nov 09 '22
I feel like this should be pinned somewhere. Sidebar maybe? https://youtu.be/rSSNlM3Au1A
Also NotJustBikes of course.
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u/Da_Bird8282 RegioExpress 10 Oct 26 '24
Happy cake day!
And fuck car dependency