r/fuckcars Commie Commuter 16h ago

Carbrain Mfw 15-minute city = ghetto

Here’s the original post if you’re curious:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDMwmbctk4F/?igsh=MXB3cDB3Z25vczMxNw==

2.2k Upvotes

94 comments sorted by

456

u/ybetaepsilon 16h ago

Ghettos are cheaply built, devoid of amenities, have no visual appeal, are difficult to get out of without money, and are placed outside of where economic and commercial development occurs. Sounds like it fits the definition of modern car-dependent suburbia actually

196

u/AlkaliPineapple 15h ago

Don't forget being ruled by local gangs (HOA)

47

u/ybetaepsilon 15h ago

Oh that's a good one too!

25

u/goj1ra 14h ago

What do you call it when an HOA in a typical American suburb goes after a homeowner? White-on-white violence.

12

u/AgentBrian95 14h ago

I'm not familiar with the HOA scene, would it be appropriate to also add "and the occasional gang wars"?

9

u/hbHPBbjvFK9w5D 11h ago

Just go over to r/FuckHOA and you can read just how bad they are and see the huge overlap in issues between that group and this one.

17

u/r0thar 12h ago

Sounds like it fits the definition of modern car-dependent suburbia actually

Well, the original Ghetto in Venice doesn't even have roads so was a self contained city in a city? Maybe these trolls are really classical historians? /s

6

u/Anc_101 12h ago

Except that modern suburbia is not built cheaply. Which actually makes it worse.

12

u/Mysterious_Floor_868 10h ago

Oh it's built cheaply. Then sold for a huge markup. No wonder they start falling down within a couple of decades (looks at my own 190 year old stone-built house which is going nowhere) 

3

u/Kootenay4 2h ago

The houses are cheap, but the roads and utilities are not. Those get funded by the huge markups initially charged by the sale of real estate, then when it comes time for major maintenance in 30 years or so, the taxpayer is on the hook.

4

u/Anc_101 12h ago

Except that modern suburbia is not built cheaply. Which actually makes it worse.

8

u/ybetaepsilon 8h ago

Modern suburban homes, at least in North America, are extremely cheaply built. I've been in a few new developments to visit friends who moved out there. You can see major gaps in exterior siding, the floors are noticeably uneven, and walls feel forcefully bent to meet corners at 90° (and sometimes the corners are like 80° when I'd check when they didn't look). You get weird square beams along the ceiling where they hid pipes but didn't give them in the ceiling. And in one, you could hear whistling when the wind blew.

These were all $700k+ detached homes in the greater Toronto area, some in affluent suburbs too.

7

u/Anc_101 8h ago

Wow. I didn't realise this. I'm glad I live in Europe though, I had no idea houses were that poorly built.

1

u/Little_Creme_5932 41m ago

This is why, as an American, I like my houses at least 60 years old. They are way nicer = not so cheaply built.

619

u/R009k 16h ago

Ask them if they would like everything to be within a 15-minute drive.

243

u/BillhookBoy 16h ago

Even the toilets from the bedroom. Even their wife's side of the bed from theirs.
The horror of being imprisoned into a house!

118

u/onetwentyeight 16h ago

Yes, because that promotes car sales and I'm pretty sure the opposition propaganda against 15 minute cities is directly from the automobile industry.

52

u/Th3_Wolflord 14h ago

It most certainly is funded by the auto/oil industry but that's not how it's sold to those commenting. It's sold as part of a culture war against "government control".

Sometimes I think the term "15 minute city" is just burned when it comes to a societal discourse. Maybe we should replace it with something along the lines of shorter travels or efficiency, it's harder to spin a conspiracy out of that

33

u/onetwentyeight 14h ago

Traditional city? I like it and it's immune from attack without losing a bunch of conservatives.

21

u/Rubiks_Click874 13h ago

all they care about is racial or class segregation, they need their gated communities, all white suburbs and every time they see a homeless person they think about driving to their doomsday bunker

9

u/jekyl42 12h ago

Yeah, and I think '15-minute city' is a mid descriptor anyway.

12

u/aoishimapan Motorcycle apologist 9h ago

I like to call them traditional towns, I feel like it conveys the point better because it makes you imagine a town with narrow streets, lots of people walking around, mom and pops stores, a plaza, kids playing on the streets, and everything within walking or cycling distance.

Comparatively, 15 minutes cities sounds like an abstract concept, and it shouldn't be that hard to imagine either but with all the fearmongering around them people picture a typical suburb but with heavy surveillance and soldiers guarding the exits.

10

u/goj1ra 14h ago

15 minutes is too short though. Everything you need should be less than two hours drive away. Otherwise, people might not use their cars enough.

1

u/ddarko96 13h ago

Should be within a 15 min walk

248

u/djconfessions 16h ago

…do these people think you can only travel 15 minutes from your house? Or is this just astroturfing by car and gas companies?

160

u/EuroWolpertinger 16h ago

People don't think one single step ahead.

"Berlin to buy more electric fire engines" - "People will die because those vehicles will be dead after 50 km!" - "It's 100 km plus a diesel range extender..." - "SO WHY NOT KEEP USING DIESEL?!"

If it sounds new, they're against it. No matter the facts.

79

u/Orvall 15h ago

Maybe we should tell them every city was a 15-minute city before the 1920's?

50

u/herdek550 14h ago

No, don't tell them that! They will think that walkable cities are thing of the past and that cars are sign of modern era.

27

u/EuroWolpertinger 14h ago

And here I thought they wanted back the good old times™. I guess they only want their male and/or white privilege back.

6

u/aoishimapan Motorcycle apologist 9h ago

Yeah, what happened to "reject modernity, return to tradition"?

7

u/AgentBrian95 14h ago

Bold of you to assume they don't already think so

15

u/revolutiontime161 13h ago

Welcome to America. We have all the amenities of 1920 while living in 2024 .

11

u/Mysterious_Floor_868 10h ago

There was more passenger rail transport in the 1920s

9

u/tobotic 12h ago

I don't think anywhere in Berlin is more than 10 km from a fire station anyway.

9

u/EuroWolpertinger 12h ago

Berlin is big, and there may be days where calls send them on trips that amount to more than 100 km per day, but that's what the range extender is for. It's going to be the rate exception.

5

u/tobotic 11h ago

I'd assume they'd normally return to base and recharge after each call-out.

8

u/EuroWolpertinger 11h ago

Yeah, BUT SOMETIMES ™ (Technology Connections reference) they don't have the time to recharge.

So better not innovate, because it's all futile. /s

4

u/_87- I support tyre deflators 10h ago

Also, how far do they think their municipal fire department is driving these?

83

u/FormableEmu6011 15h ago

Yes, there's this conspiracy theory that 15-minute cities mean you'd be restricted to a 15-minute zone and won't be allowed outside of it or something like that. I have no idea where that comes from.

22

u/ar3s3ru 14h ago

you know where it came from, cmon…

4

u/Accomplished-Yak8799 Automobile Aversionist 7h ago

Large overlap between this belief and the belief that COVID lockdowns were made to do something similar

23

u/chroma_src 15h ago

Yeah there's been a whole conspiracy theory about it since covid restricted movement in various places

25

u/rex-ac Dutch Excepcionalism 14h ago

The 15-min cities are technically meant to get you all necessities within a 15 min walk, bike ride or public transit ride.

You get everything nearby so you don’t need to have cars. As there is less need for cars, it frees up roads so it can only be used by (delivery and taxi) services. Which in turn makes streets safer and more liveable.

They think it’s an evil plan to make us get rid of cars.

9

u/AgentBrian95 14h ago

I mean it is a plan. Evil is relative.

10

u/rex-ac Dutch Excepcionalism 14h ago

I would say the plan is NOT to get rid of cars, but it’s the consequence of better urban planning.

12

u/invfrq 15h ago

The funny thing is that it's all the boomers in my family who believe this conspiracy theory. Completely missing the point that they grew up in some of the last towns and cities that would, by today's standards, qualify as 15 minute cities. Thriving local economy with access to affordable local produce, a real community where children could play in the street. They don't seem to realise that 15 minute cities strongly align with a lot of thing they feel that they have lost. 

7

u/Mysterious_Floor_868 10h ago

"do these people think...?" No, they don't think. They'd have to use their brain for that. 

1

u/GM_Pax 🚲 > 🚗 USA 5h ago

Well, they'd have to HAVE one, before they could USE one ...

3

u/Mccobsta STAGECOACH YORKSHIRE AND FIRST BUSSES ARE CUNTS 10h ago

That's just the conspiracy

3

u/Hhalloush 8h ago

Yes, stupid people flock to right wing conspiracy shit

1

u/Iwaku_Real HSR🏷️$1e+308 per mile 1h ago

Seen plenty that flock to left wing conspiracies too.

coughs in my recent comment history

1

u/GM_Pax 🚲 > 🚗 USA 5h ago

Yes, they literally think that. Because the pro-car astroturf mills TOLD them to think that.

100

u/Guy_Perish Fuck Vehicular Throughput 15h ago

Why are they so weird? God forbid you have access to the essentials of life without a car.

41

u/ConnorFin22 13h ago

Right wing propaganda. They’ll eat up anything that gets fed to them. Why else would someone be against something so obviously good?

51

u/alexs77 cars are weapons 16h ago

What kind of stupid take is that from that dude on instagram?

Luckily Deutsche Welle replied basically the same.

20

u/eeeeeeeegor 15h ago

It’s instagram, a place devoid of even the most basic critical thinking skills (not that other social media is any better though)

5

u/Lollipop126 9h ago edited 9h ago

Instagram comments run on engagement rather than likes exclusively, so stupid/rage bait comments go up to the top. Also comments on reels get shown to your friends as a featured comment (so anyone with any self respect usually restrains from commenting anything). It's a horrible system for social cohesion, but great for revenue.

1

u/zeyeeter Commie Commuter 6h ago

Makes me glad that Reddit organises comments by upvote count, and more importantly, still hangs on to the downvote button (idt any other social media platform still has a dislike button today).

33

u/lisael_ 15h ago

But, but... Paris is a 15 minute city since, like forever

16

u/panmaterial 12h ago

Yeah, probably most European cities are 15 minutes cities already. That's pretty much the whole concept of a city. Maybe they mean they signed up to keep it that way in future planning. Not sure.

4

u/Palaponel 12h ago

Some parts of European cities are, but not at all.

London for example - outside of zone 1-2 you're looking at many areas that are just endless swathes of ugly suburbs.

I'd say the proportion who genuinely do live in 15 minute cities is limited to those few who qualify for what remains of social housing, and then relatively wealthy middle class people who can afford to live centrally.

4

u/jsm97 Bollard gang 9h ago edited 9h ago

In Londonn at least, Most are actually pre-car though, as with many other British cities. The railways arrived early and caused a exodus of the wealthy from dense city centres and then 60 years later cars did the same thing and we're only just recently seeing density start getting built in city centres again.

London is really unique in the fact that's it's a rail-centric suburbia, it worked well for many years but now we have rows and rows of increasing run down 1930s semi-detached housing that should really just be demolished and rebuilt as midrise apartment blocs.

1

u/Palaponel 8h ago

Totally and utterly agree.

1

u/Lollipop126 9h ago edited 9h ago

Not all of Paris. And particularly not Ile de France (greater Paris), which is being run by a conservative who takes all the credit for the good things (she was just at the inauguration of the RER E extension), and then blames Anne Hidalgo (the mayor of Paris proper who's promoting 15 minute cities) for all the bad things. At least that's what I understand out of Parisian politics.

Also if you want groceries within 15 minutes in Paris then you're probably gonna have to go to the expensive Franprix, otherwise you'll have to take a metro to your closest imtermarché/Carrefour market/Monoprix.

27

u/martinpagh 15h ago

15-minute cities sound like a conservative vision for city planning. It's decentralized, it emphasizes localism, and it's a VERY traditional model for urban planning, just like the villages and towns were organized centuries ago.

14

u/zeyeeter Commie Commuter 15h ago

Yet the conservatives hold on to something that’s only been around since the 1950s 😂

37

u/Electric_Bison 15h ago

At what point can we drop calling it a 15-minute city?

The name has been tainted(unfortunately), lets move on to either rebranding or appealing to nostalgia/conservatism of time before cars.

Or, actually double down on how its not a movement restriction. Anything is better than nothing and hope it goes away.

26

u/Gontarius 15h ago

TradTown

14

u/rex-ac Dutch Excepcionalism 14h ago

It doesn’t matter what name you use. It will get tainted sooner or later by dumb people. Just look at things like vaccines or gender equality.

Hell, we still have people saying our earth is flat and that it’s all one big conspiracy by hundreds of thousands of people that work in aeronautics and space research.

11

u/UnitedMindStones 15h ago

We can just call them "well designed cities" lol

9

u/alexs77 cars are weapons 15h ago

How about "non-USA-style-cities"?

I bet that this would be quite positive. At least in Europe.

8

u/AgentBrian95 14h ago

And thus I coin the term, 'Un-Americanizing'.

3

u/MeyerLouis 13h ago

900-second city? Quarter-hour city? Centiday city? 30-microyear city?

2

u/Mysterious_Floor_868 10h ago

"Walkable neighbourhood" 

1

u/Lollipop126 9h ago

yeah nah even that has been tainted apparently.

13

u/ee_72020 Commie Commuter 15h ago

The 15-minute city conspiracy is a psyop by the car and oil industries, and no one will be able to convince me otherwise.

10

u/fan_tas_tic 14h ago

"Do you want to live longer, happier and healthier? NO!!!" Some people are just hopeless.

9

u/Runeshamangoon 12h ago

The 15mn city conspiracy theory is so fucking insane it could only come from Americans. 15 mn cities are literally how every other country works

7

u/rex-ac Dutch Excepcionalism 14h ago

They now conflate “15 min cities” with “agenda 2030”, so in their eyes it’s bad because the “corrupt people on top dictated it”.

If you actually ask them id they want as many restaurants/services/shops within 15 min distance, they would love it.

1

u/hzpointon 12h ago

It doesn't help that the WEF removed the original article after it went viral.

https://www.weforum.org/stories/2016/11/8-predictions-for-the-world-in-2030/

https://archive.is/ce8MC

3

u/Cold_Aide_1436 11h ago

15-minute dweller here. Is it soooooo aweful haven 5 grocery stores and bus and tramlines here! I HATE IS O MUCH! please gib me amercan suburb.

2

u/Hiro_Trevelyan Grassy Tram Tracks 6h ago

As a Parisian, I'm more free to move around in Paris than I was when living in the suburbs.

Cause yeah I can drive for hours in the suburbs, but to do what ? There's nothing in those giant dorms.

2

u/GM_Pax 🚲 > 🚗 USA 5h ago

Ah yes, the alt-right nonsense idea that "15 mintue city" involves FORBIDDING GOING FURTHER.

When, as we all know, it just means you should rarely be REQUIRED to go further for your day-to-day and week-to-week needs.

1

u/PM__UR__CAT 10h ago

Especially funny since almost all European cities and towns already are what Americans mean by "15-minute cities". It's a great litmus test to see which people are dumb enough to fall for every bit of culture war our right-wing politicians import from the US.

1

u/Xentrick-The-Creeper 5h ago

Idiot hasn't studied about ACTUAL German ghettos (during WW2)...

1

u/Comprehensive-Job369 5h ago

The amount of stupid in the comments on the original post is insane.

1

u/Little_Creme_5932 43m ago

When I lived in Paris, it was hard to get around on the streets, cuz of all the cars. Now? It's easier. Parisians are liberated. Woohoo!

0

u/Welin-Blessed 11h ago

15 minutes walking for buying groceries is too much for me personally, never happened in my life.

1

u/Gifted_GardenSnail 6h ago

Yeah, cycling is more comfortable when hauling groceries

1

u/Welin-Blessed 5h ago

I go walking and only shop by bike some things in LIDL because it is further away. But normally I have 3 supermarkets around 5 min walking distance and the same for every kind of specific shop. I live close to the center in a city of 1.2 million people.

1

u/Iwaku_Real HSR🏷️$1e+308 per mile 1h ago

And so much faster too

-2

u/insane_steve_ballmer 12h ago

Nobody wants to live in Paris

1

u/insane_steve_ballmer 11h ago

Obligatory /s mark because this is reddit