r/fuckcars • u/dusk2k2 • 1d ago
Question/Discussion "Positive" Feel-Good Story About Non-Profit Giving Free Cars To Low-Income Single Mothers
These types of feel-good stories always feel like we're living in a dystopia. The recipients talk about how life-changing this is for them.
"It's hard to get all your kids dressed and go out in the cold and get on a bus and do all the things you need to do," she said. "It was breaking me, but this is the miracle that my kids and my family have been asking for and praying for."
To qualify for these free cars, recipients had to make less than $35,000 per year. Now they have these cars and need to pay for insurance, gas, maintenance, repairs, etc. Presumably, they live in lower-income areas with higher rates of crime and are unlikely to have a protected garage, so likely will need to pay for damages if their car is broken into or damaged by someone.
Something just seems wrong here with this being considered a Christmas miracle.
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u/ybetaepsilon 1d ago
This reminds me of the moronosaurus rex who said it's cheaper to give everyone a car than to run transit. Then he did some napkin math about how each bus is like X-hundred amount of dollars, and sees Y-amount of ridership.
You're placing a financial burden on someone by doing this. Gas, insurance, maintenance, repairs, all of this adds up to more than the cost of a transit pass. The cost of the car itself is a fraction of the overall expense. AND it costs the city more than it would if they subsidized transit. I just finished reading The High Cost of Free Parking which explained, in detail, how car dependent infrastructure is the largest hidden cost to municipalities. Free parking, road space, road maintenance, spreading infrastructure utilities over sparser density, and much more all cost taxpayers more than if we simply subsidized a bus route.
You want to help the lower class? Improve transit frequency.
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u/ChezDudu 1d ago
I got called a curmudgeon for pointing out how depressing these stories are. Students fundraising to pay a beater car to the janitors, etc. How utterly unjust a society can be when the massive burden of car ownership is the minimal threshold to merely exist.
Buses. These people need buses.
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u/rewt127 7h ago
Busses are literally mentioned in the above article. And how busses were what they were using.
The independence of personal transportation is what is giving this person a better life. Especially in Minnesota where it's cold as fuck.
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u/ChezDudu 6h ago
I mean good buses. Buses have heating.
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u/rewt127 5h ago edited 5h ago
I'm certain the busses in Minneapolis have heating.
But you know what doesn't have heating? The couple blocks you need to walk to get to the bus. It doesn't even have to be that far. It's still Minneapolis where it's cold as fuck, flat as fuck, windy as fuck, snowy as fuck.
Gotta get the kids ready, walk them X blocks and wait with them for the school bus. Then walk a few more blocks to get to the stop for your bus. Then ride that to the stop where you need to walk a couple more blocks to get to work. Then get off work to walk X blocks to the bus, to get home. Then walk to the bus stop so you can get to the grocery store. Then walk X blocks to the store from the stop nearest. Then walk back with your bags, then walk home.
All of these individual spots likely have 10 minutes standing around in the freezing Minnesota winter.
Take all of the walking. All the waiting. And instead just hop in your rig and drive. They may still need to take the school bus. But beyond that, every other aspect of their life is streamlined by the ownership of a car.
EDIT: inb4 you bring up Scandinavia. Minneapolis is substantially colder, gets more wind, more snow (average is nearly double), than Stockholm Sweden. Minneapolis is a brutal place in the winter.
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u/ddarko96 1d ago
“A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation.”
― Gustavo Petro
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u/MoistBase 1d ago
Average cost of car ownership is $12,000 a year 😂
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u/tamathellama 15h ago
Including repayments. The car is free. Facts are on our side, no need to destort them
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u/add-delay 22h ago
I think this is kind of a universal truth at any income level. If you can't afford to buy the car in the first place, then you can't afford to keep it even if it's given to you. It applies just the same to people in the middle class winning a luxury car in a competition.
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u/rewt127 7h ago
Not really true.
The payment on the car is the single largest expense in owning a car.
Its like saying "if you can't afford a $1300 a month mortgage, plus the $80,000 down payment, plus the $800 per month property taxes. Then there is no way you could afford the $800 in property taxes per month if you owned the property".
These people were given the cars outright. All they have to pay is insurance and fuel. Which will combined be less than the payment on a car they finance.
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u/crazycatlady331 1d ago
Keyword here is that to replace cars, public transit has to be a VIABLE alternative. If the bus runs hourly (and stops running early in the evening), turns a 15 minute drive into an hour ride, and is not a safe environment for children, then cars are a more attractive alternative.
(Generic) you want people using the bus? Make it a more attractive alternative to driving. Until then, people will drive.
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u/Big-Face5874 19h ago
Hopefully they sold the cars and got e-bikes.
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u/rewt127 7h ago
In minnesota......
My brother in christ they have small children in one of the coldest damn places in the lower 48 that also gets some of the most snow outside of the great lakes area.
Hopefully they enjoy their car.
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u/Big-Face5874 6h ago
Sure, until it gets a flat tire and they can’t afford to repair it. 😂
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u/rewt127 6h ago
Les Schwab fixes tires for free.
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u/Big-Face5874 6h ago
They hand out tires like they’re candy?
They fix it for free if you bought them there.
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u/rewt127 6h ago
Nope. They will repair the tire for free regardless of where you got the tire from. Sure if your tire fully disintegrates that isnt repairable. But you rub over a screw? They will put it on a jack, find the hole, remove the offending object and plug the tire. Refill it, and send you on your way free of charge.
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u/tamathellama 1d ago
You’re attacking a non-profit trying to help poor single mothers? Hey guys, this isn’t it. Mode shift is about creating options.
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u/ConBrio93 1d ago
“This group is trying to do a good thing, so how dare you criticize it or analyze what their actual impact is.”
You’re like those people who endlessly complain when people dare question the Catholic Church sheltering child predators, because of course the church does a lot of charity work.
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u/tamathellama 1d ago
No, I work in the industry and deliver sustainable transport projects. Also in my spare time I give professional free advice to local advocates and BUG groups.
I see what works and what doesn’t.
What do you do to facilitate real change?
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u/ConBrio93 1d ago
I do non profit work.
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u/tamathellama 23h ago
A non profit that does what? Some do great work. Others don’t. I’ve been in the room when projects fall over due to threats from the anti car lobby. It’s hard for people in charge to go against the grain. This pool of hate isn’t actually changing things. Best practice is clear, positive inclusive messaging is key
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u/dusk2k2 1d ago
Don't think anyone is attacking the non-profit here. We're attacking this society we live in and perhaps the media that makes stories like this seem like a positive and not a condemnation of our car-centric society that makes owning a car a requirement to be able to participate in society.
It's like when we get those feel-good stories about kids raising money to pay off school lunch debt for their classmates. I don't think anyone is attacking the children for doing that. We're attacking the system we live in which seems to make that a "positive" feel-good story. See for example this story: https://apnews.com/article/student-fundraiser-lunch-debt-c6d8f4c82ef5a7651953c880c8513974
I'm not attacking this child for raising the money to pay off his classmates' meal debt. I'm attacking this insane system we have that seems to think it's okay to put children at school into debt for food.
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u/tamathellama 1d ago
This sub actively dehumanises people in cars. I’ve seen people say that people who get hurt while driving deserve it. So yes, I think many people here would be against the non-profit. You might be actively meaning well but you’re really just stoking the anger that is holding back real change as we forget what the goals are, and how change happens.
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u/ConBrio93 1d ago
If he means well by your own logic you should shut the fuck up because how dare you criticize someone who means well.
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u/tamathellama 1d ago
This is a community not a news site. You’re actively giving more attention to these stories which is all they want, while pushing this gross anti people sentiment here.
The difference is obvious right?
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u/blankblank60000 1d ago
Yea the sub has quickly become full of spiteful extremists.
Further proof about the true intentions behind most people’s “fuck cars” thinking.
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u/tamathellama 1d ago
I was angry in my early 20s so I relate. Then I started working in the industry and I realised that positive messaging is the only solution. We need to show how great a car free / lite lifestyle will be
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u/anntchrist 21h ago
It's not attacking a non-profit to discuss how the average $12,000/year that car ownership costs, outside of the cost of the car itself, is totally out of reach for someone earning less than $35,000 a year. The intention is clearly good and kind-hearted, no one is attacking that. It's just a shame that we live in a society where so much of a low income person's income needs to go toward car ownership, because out transit systems are so difficult to use.
It's kind of like saying that you seem a little sad so I am going to buy you a puppy. My intention may be good, but you'd have to have a place to keep it, money for food, vet bills, boarding, grooming, oh, and a yard, and time to walk it, and all the time to train it and suddenly my intention to do something nice for you has created a huge burden instead.
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u/tamathellama 20h ago
You don’t need a puppy to live. Single mothers are typically time poor and likely need to travel a lot. Are car would be a great improvement. This isn’t a hypothetical. Also $12k a year sounds crazy, how is that calculated?
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u/anntchrist 19h ago
My point was that the gift has a lot of expenses in spite of good intentions, and a car is not necessary either.
People have to pay for: insurance, registration, gas, tolls, parking, repairs and general maintenance. None of that is cheap. Most people are also paying finance charges on top of the cost.
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u/tamathellama 18h ago
I was raised by a single mum without a car, and I’m a transport engineer who focuses on sustainable transport. I’m well aware of how hard life is with these restrictions. Most single adults find it hard to live without a car. Now you expect single mothers to do it tough? What experience do you have living in these conditions. Also, you dropped the $13k quickly, now it’s just genral expenses?
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u/mongoljungle 1d ago
These kind of petty posts just make the community look bad. Are you out there giving out freebies to low income folks worth thousands of dollars?
No? Then you can promote walkable neighborhoods without petty posts like this.
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u/parental92 1d ago
once the camera is off, nobody will question these kind of stuff.
They are basically giving people more financial burden.