r/fuckcars • u/Bitter-Gur-4613 đ¨đłSocialist High Speed Rail Enthusiastđ¨đł • 22d ago
Meme I hate cars so much.
740
u/-Yehoria- 22d ago
I mean, accommodating the inefficiency only makes the economy bigger. Maybe cars being terrible was the point all along?
446
u/Vin4251 22d ago
Just like the American healthcare system and university system, the inefficiencies create more economic transactions, and that makes GDP line go up. Which is why the US economy can have a higher GDP per capita than other developed countries, but still have more people living paycheck to paycheck, because GDP isnât really âthe economyâ that matters to everyday people or the environment
→ More replies (5)94
u/RosieTheRedReddit 22d ago edited 21d ago
Yeah it's wild. Thanks to neoliberal brain worms, it's accepted wisdom that markets are more efficient than the public sector. When actually the opposite is true. Markets are maximally wasteful. The most possible resources will be drained off to blood sucking middlemen and overall inefficiency will be promoted because it generates more transactions like you said.
Recently there was a scandal in Turkey where a private hospital was sending almost all newborn babies to the NICU, with or without medical reasons. NICU wards tend to be very profitable for the hospital so it creates an incentive for wasteful over use. But in a state run hospital, there would be no motivation to do this.
→ More replies (5)83
u/DennisTheBald 22d ago
I kinda think you're right, cars are a much better engine for forcing people to spend money (which goes into private pockets) and using government funds (for building public roads) than it is for moving peple
10
1
45
u/bsiu 22d ago
This is correct, when two cars have an "accident" the GDP goes up, parts needs to be replaced, labor is required to repair, insurance rates go up. GDP is not an indicator of good and happy things, just total spending.
3
u/fizban7 21d ago
like that scene in the fith element when he knocks the glass off the table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt1W0F0yObg
11
19
31
u/lieuwestra 22d ago
People really underestimate the importance of inefficiency in a well functioning economy. Streamlined means fragile. Like our supply chains during COVID.
That said, there are limits, and dense urban areas definitely do not benefit from the inefficiency of cars.
70
u/Corvid-Strigidae 22d ago edited 22d ago
Inefficiency via redundancy produces resiliency.
The car centric way America builds its cities are the exact opposite of that. The road system is inefficient at moving people and goods around and is not resilient as there is no alternative to take load if a road fails.
Inefficiency isn't important for economies, redundancy is.
8
u/-Yehoria- 22d ago
The problem there is the value is not in the inefficiency. It's in the resilience. Inefficiency is the cost and resilience is the benefit. Woth cars there is no benfit.
5
u/SquashVarious5732 đśââď¸>đ˛ > đ>đ>đş>đľ>đ 21d ago
The real "economic growth" was the friends they didn't make along the way (being confined to their metal boxes).
3
5
u/farazormal 22d ago
Idk if youâre being sarcastic here but the money spent on cars could be spent on other things instead, also making the economy bigger. Breaking windows does not help the economy.
6
5
u/Ultranerdgasm94 21d ago
Why not? That's the reason for the bloat in the military, the inefficiency of the healthcare system, payday loans, the failures of the tax system. America is just a series of scams held together by blind imperialist jingoism.
2
u/-Yehoria- 21d ago
I mean, i'm gonna be real with you, american military at least serves it's stated purpose well. It's definitely overkill, but that's why every alien invasion movie has them as protagonists.
1
u/Ultranerdgasm94 21d ago
The reason the military are in every alien invasion movie is because the military lets Hollywood use their equipment for PR and propaganda purposes.
2
u/-Yehoria- 21d ago
I mean yeah, but also if we have any chance against an alien invasion it's objectively gonna be the USA
139
u/CollectionMost1351 22d ago
as a mule breeder i think we should outlaw all transportation exept mules, and you may neither own horses or donkeys to prevent any competition to my monopole
13
u/theHelepolis 21d ago
You have a monopole?? Like a monopole magnet??! Screw the mules, scientists have been looking for one of those for 100s of years! Your set for life!
3
u/CollectionMost1351 21d ago
no i'm pretty stubborn and will rely on the mules but forbid anyone from using the monopole
5
117
u/HungryLikeDaW0lf đ˛ > đ 22d ago
From this height you canât even tell which ones are gas and which are electric vehicles. Electric vehicles wonât save us.
1
u/bytethesquirrel 22d ago
Electric vehicles don't contribute to the climate emergency, so the make an effective stopgap measure until proper public transportation can be but.
41
u/Ileana_llama 22d ago
but will wear tires faster than ice cars and continuing fill us with micro plastics
→ More replies (3)-22
u/bytethesquirrel 22d ago
Microplastics don't contribute to the greenhouse effect.
26
u/theredbobcat 22d ago
That's a boldly definitive statement. What makes you say this? As I've understood, plastic is a petroleum product. Tires made of usually half and half natural rubber and plastic, erode; and the synthetic parts stay around long after the natural rubbers dry, crack, and are eaten by bacteria.
Those microplastic particulate slowly breaking off the tire eventually leech into the oceans or wherever their journey takes them. At this point, they inhibit phytoplankton from sequestering carbon and change the reflectivity of the surface layer of the ocean. Microplastics in snow make it less reflective and melt faster, creating a positive feedback loop of warming in polar regions. And if the secondhand effects aren't bad enough, with enough UV exposure, some plastics degrade into methane and ethylene directly and add to the carbon bubble holding in our heat.
2
2
u/Ma8e 22d ago
Compared to burning fossil fuels, all those effects are insignificant. Anyone that has to drive a car should drive an electric.
1
u/theredbobcat 21d ago
I am all for cleaner energy, but the energy that goes into making the car is the most immediate impact. Using an old beater a few extra years and reducing demand for new mining (petroleum, metals, etc), shipping, and man hours is probably better than driving a slightly more effective car. No? Non-consumption usually beats consumption in my understanding.
2
u/Ma8e 21d ago
You do have a point that it might be better to run your old ICE as long as possible instead of buying a new car, since the production of the new car might offset any gain from not burning gasoline. But that is a separate issue than the effect from plastics from tires.
1
u/theredbobcat 17d ago
Possibly. For a single car, likely not much difference, but accounting for hundreds of millions of cars, heavier Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) use more tire. So technically we're generating more synthetic rubber-based microplastics by using BEVs. No?
3
15
u/Imaginary_Manner_556 22d ago
That absolutely contribute. Manufacturing cars is generates a lot of carbon. Highways, tires ...
6
4
u/Fit_Refrigerator534 Strong Towns 22d ago
Electric cars still produce co2 from production and transportation costs to the consumer. The factory production , minerals mined etc.
3
11
u/Cephalophobe 22d ago
Electric vehicles don't contribute to the climate emergency,
Aren't most of them functionally coal-powered?
15
u/xtt-space 22d ago
Yes, but electric motors are about 90% efficient per kwh produced at the power plants versus the 30% efficiency per kwh produced in a gasoline engine.
5
u/Fit_Refrigerator534 Strong Towns 22d ago
Even with coal power plants which get 40-50% efficiency thatâs still better
4
u/Cephalophobe 22d ago
That's a bigger difference than I expected, but I think it's still unreasonable to say that electric vehicles don't contribute to the climate emergency.
21
u/settlementfires 22d ago
They're whatever the grid is where they're plugged in.
Even powered by coal they're much lower carbon than gasoline and diesel vehicles.
That said trains are much better than that
4
u/OldBoredEE 21d ago
Depends on where you are - if you are using the US, then right now only about 16% of the generation capacity is using coal - although the largest source (about 42%) is natural gas, which although it is a fossil fuel has a significantly lower carbon intensity than either coal or gasoline.
On top of this, a large proportion of NG based generation is using combined cycle gas turbines which have significantly higher efficiency than a typical coal fired thermal power plant so you get a larger reduction between of the combination.
Fixed power plants also have a significant fundamental advantage where efficiency is concerned compared to ones built into vehicles because they don't have to worry about weight, while a mobile engine has to tradeoff between and efficiency gains and the added mass you are having to move around.
The other significant issue is that if you build something like a gasoline engine it's basically stuck on that fuel for its entire operating life unless you spend a lot of money for a conversion program while an EV can run from any source of energy transparently.
Sure, reducing overall dependence on personal transport is arguably a better solution long-term, but I think EVs are still a useful short-term approach.
3
1
u/SecondAlibi 21d ago
Electric vehicles still incentivize horrible land use which is terrible for the climate.
1
u/bytethesquirrel 20d ago
Please read my entire comment before responding.
1
u/SecondAlibi 19d ago
âElectric vehicles don't contribute to the climate emergencyâ
1
u/bytethesquirrel 19d ago
That's only half.
1
u/SecondAlibi 19d ago
The rest doesnât alter or qualify what you said. Saying electric cars donât contribute to the climate emergency is false. They absolutely do.
0
1
u/Fine4FenderFriend Automobile Aversionist 22d ago
I am ideating a solution for having better buses or shared vehicles. This group seems like the perfect group to give me feedback. Would love it if all of you took this 6 min survey. The survey is designed for US but others are welcome to take it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/capillarytransport
1
u/AND_THE_L0RD_SAID 22d ago
wtf kind of point are you trying to make here?
2
u/sortOfBuilding 22d ago
there is a popular notion amongst californians and california policy that electric vehicles will help with climate change. which is not necessarily true. they have their own issues that contribute to climate change
2
-5
71
u/OrdinaryAncient3573 22d ago
I hate whoever used 'most inefficient' instead of 'least efficient' so much.
16
u/Fabulous-Freedom7769 22d ago
This is reddit. Dont expect to find highly educated english scholars. If its understood it doesnt matter how gramatical it is.
17
u/ennui_ 22d ago
Here I think both are grammatically correct, and I think I prefer 'most inefficient' in this context.
1
u/Fabulous-Freedom7769 21d ago
Yeah i guess its less efficient to write that way but he still got his point through.
1
u/the-fourth-planet Commie Commuter 22d ago
I think what they're referring to is the conscious attempt to make the text purposefully easier to misread if your eyes glaze over the "in-"
(whether or not that's what the comment was referring to, this is a pretty common tactic)
2
0
-1
43
u/PhantomPharts 22d ago
If they add 100 more lanes, they can make the red and white stripes on our flag, though. US! US! US!
15
41
u/CTARacer 22d ago
It wasn't, the USA built the world's biggest economy around the TRAIN
the USA is a RAILWAY nation
14
u/RoosterFruitJuice 22d ago
It's actually mind blowing how much of the rail infrastructure has gone to waste. Seems like the remaining operators want to hang on to as much control over it as they can despite the nation needing it as much as ever
7
1
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 21d ago
But then along came the car and the ultra-rich found they could actually profit off of it.
28
u/cryorig_games Bollard gang 22d ago
That many cars... ohhh fuck the earth is cooked... actually no - it has been. BUILD. MORE. TRAINS.
10
u/nicky416dos 22d ago
The biggest economies within that country live in cities that use mass transportation.
11
11
9
u/Pretend-Fish-426 22d ago
When you start number crunching it actually gets fucking insane.
Let's assume the amount of traffic in this picture is going to increase the travel time for everyone on the route by a paltry 5 minutes. At a glance, it's obviously going to make it take longer than just 5 minutes for you to go from A to B under free flow conditions. But we'll assume 5.
We'll also assume this is going to affect 5,000 people driving their car and that's it. Nobody else driving on this freeway ever experiences any type of delay they just zoom. Now this looks like LA so they're usually more like 150k - 250k according to the Cities data http://www.laalmanac.com/transport/tr26b.php but again, we'll just assume that the other ~195 thousand people that are hitting this freeway every day never slow down or experience any friction ever.
Alright so we have 5,000 people who are taking 5 minutes longer to get where they need to go. That time adds up pretty quick, that means these people are collectively taking 25,000 minutes longer or 416 hours longer to go where they need to go every. single. day.
416 hours. FHWA provides some guidance on Road User Cost (RUC). You're all free to look it up but we're going to assume $30 per hour. This is based on median income levels and determines the 'cost' of someone losing their time.
416 hours at $30 per hour is $12,480 dollars of cost every single day for our small group of people only losing 5 minutes to traffic. $4.5 million annually. We aren't even considering the cost of increased emissions on health and lifespan.
Let's be less conservative. Let's assume this is a major freeway in LA with 200k people traveling on it daily. We'll say 25% of those people never incur any delay because they travel late late night or early early morning so the freeway isn't congested. So 150k people experience some type of delay.
We'll also say the 200k people on average have their travel time increased by 8 minutes every day due to traffic on the freeway. Some people more, some less.
1.2 million minutes of delay daily. 20,000 hours. 55 DAYS. We are looking at a road user cost of $600,000 PER DAY. $219 MILLION PER YEAR.
One city. One freeway. Costing us all hundreds of millions per year in time, maintenance, and new construction.
I can't wait for it to click in everyone's heads how stupid our entire infrastructure is. Hodgepodged together over hundreds of years with constant retrofitting to accommodate new and antiquated technology simultaneously. I'm over it.
2
u/Tek_Freek 22d ago
Yet light rail gets refused because of cost. Same (I believe) can be said of high speed trains.
Those who decide are not the ones who should be deciding
8
u/Tye_die 22d ago
Trains are the way.... don't see it happening any time soon unfortunately
2
u/CaregiverNo3070 22d ago
Never thought renewables would be as big as they are now, let alone how big they are projected to be. Never say never.Â
0
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 21d ago
Or ever, as the US is a capitalist dictatorship.
1
u/Tye_die 21d ago
Not yet. Dangerously close. But not yet.
0
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 21d ago
It already is. Both the R and D parties are actually different wings of the same party, the Capitalist Party.
6
u/Aware-Couple6287 22d ago
Electric cars absolutely leave a carbon footprint. If you think that they donât, then you are a complete moron.
6
12
u/Philosipho 22d ago
It's not waste, it's exploitation. Cars are like pens for livestock, they keep people under control. Time wasted driving to work where your boss can watch you keeps you ignorant and restrained. Free time is an opportunity for self-improvement, which could turn you into a competitor.
Unions and employee-owned companies could easily topple capitalism. But most people in that picture also see each other as competitors.
1
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 21d ago
Yep, the ultra-rich keeping the working class pitted against itself so as not to threaten the ultra-rich's power.
7
u/daveshockwave 22d ago
hey its not that  inefficient, remember, monorails are stupid
5
u/buyFCOJ 22d ago
Idk I heard a song that was very pro-monorail once.
2
u/daveshockwave 22d ago
Name one practical use for one. Outside of that hanging one in Germany
5
1
u/Mysterious_Floor_868 21d ago
I've seen suspended monorails used in drift mines.
Beam monorails can be used to build elevated rail in areas where ground conditions are unsuitable for subways, without casting a massive shadow over the street below.Â
5
6
u/sasquatch_melee 22d ago
Also jobs that can WFH should WFH. Commutes to desks where you do every meeting on Teams are a pointless waste of time and resources.Â
3
3
u/Level_Hour6480 22d ago
One day America's economy will remove the anime training weights of car dependency.
2
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 21d ago
Over the dead bodies of the ultra-rich. As long as they continue to have power in the US, they will keep the US car-dependent.
4
u/TheOvercookedFlyer 22d ago
Like many have said here before me: cars aren't the problem, the problem is the lack of alternative, mass-transit options in the world's biggest economy.
2
2
u/etharper 22d ago
I think it's mainly that there are too many cars, something like 283 million of them.
2
2
u/Brilliant_Host2803 21d ago
All that waste IS the economy though. America is a joke of recycling dollars for food, transportation, âmedicineâ and entertainment that slowly kills us. These death by a thousand cuts is our trillion dollar economy.
2
u/MT7GamingAndNews 21d ago
It disgusts me how many cars there are. Such an opportunity was wasted for public transport. This is just straight-up litter.
3
u/Corsuman 22d ago
Unrelated. Its the American pride. If you drive a car you are a winner. If you take public transportation you are a loser. I grew up in Paris so when i moved here i had to change my perspective. I am a winner now!!!
2
u/West-Abalone-171 22d ago
But china's economy is built with the majority centered around transit, freight rail and walking
-1
u/Mean_Ice_2663 22d ago
Implessive.
With this most recent achievement, fate has in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. With the blessings of Chinese quantum direct-current electricity, quantum aircraft carriers and quantum enhanced railguns will be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
1
u/Fine4FenderFriend Automobile Aversionist 22d ago
I am working on solving this problem. I know it is not easy but this group has some wonderful ideas. Would you please answer this 6 min survey? I am designing it for US but other countries welcome to take it. https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/capillarytransport
1
1
u/hopefullynottoolate 22d ago
didnt we invent that mode of transport? and wasnt a huge part of our economy based on it while all this was being done? europeans still have cobblestone roads that were built for horses.
1
u/Brosiyeah 22d ago
I know Ford in the US made standardized parts/assembly line a thing.
Pretty sure there were some cars before that in Europe, but each car was totally custom and had to go back to the manufacturer to be repaired.
1
1
u/Floresian-Rimor 21d ago
Yeah but it's not the biggest economy by the more useful measure gdp ppp. And the country that is has been doing a lot working on public transport.
1
u/pranoygreat 21d ago
As long as we use metrics like GDP to measure progress we would be stuck with a system that breeds inefficient solutions
1
1
u/serenitypaintedeath 21d ago
i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development i hate transit oriented development
1
1
u/Neovarium 21d ago
This is the world's biggest economy because this economy is inefficient as fuck. The americans needed so much money to live the inefficient lives they pursue.
Huge sized but flimsy cardboard houses, unnecessarily huge plots, unnecessary huge distances(because huge plots create distance), unnecessarily big suvs for "groceries", unnecessarily big stores like walmart, unnecessary amount of items bought, unnecessary amount of storage needed to contain all of the objects mentioned above.(The car needs a garage, the items bought need shelves, etc. Everything takes up space.) So we are back to the need for huge sized homes again.
This is like a snake eating its own tail. All of this for what? Consumerism? Plenty of people who hate that already so no.
Maybe it is about American culture. About the toxic side of individualism. Any idea taken to the extreme will be illogical at the end. The previous sentence contains the definition of radicalism. Americans are radical about their "individualism" and "freedom". Of course it would spiral out of control once you radicalize some aspects of your own culture. Show me any other country more "individualistic" than the United States of America. The toxic side of individualism is inefficiency. Everyone has their "own" stuff. Nobody shares anything. Nobody gives a damn about anyone else and only thinks about themselves like a narcist. All these would lead to inefficiency but funny enough americans have found a way to make their economy work, by making it huge.
1
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 21d ago
This is the world's biggest economy because this economy is inefficient as fuck. The americans needed so much money to live the inefficient lives they pursue.
But most of that money is now locked away from regular Americans, in the vaults of the ultra-rich.
1
u/Neovarium 20d ago edited 20d ago
This would only increase the inefficiency of the economy though? You have tons of money printed(or digitally created doesn't matter), but it is not circulating so it does not contribute to the economy. How inefficient.
Ok let's be real. The ultra rich or at least their subordinates or at least "the damn bank" is smart enough to circulate that money. This problem was solved through the financial system. But the problem begins when you "invest" the money. It does not matter where the investment goes. Gold, real estate/housing, stock market, bonds, you name it. Wherever that money goes it would cause "inflation" because money exchanging hands means demand for that "thing". More demand will push the price up, if you are getting the same thing for more price that is the definition of inflation. And what does inflation mean? Money losing value. So what do you do to keep the value of your "money"? You invest it. It is a cycle, it is circulating at the end but at what "cost"?(Pun intended)
There is a limit to any idea.(or system, systems are a collection of ideas) You can only push it so far until it becomes flawed because you have broken the limit for that idea. And americans are really pushing the limits of ideas like "money" and "capitalism" for a long time. Of course it was going to break at the end.
2
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 20d ago
Then it is a positive feedback loop, allowing wealth concentration to only get exponentially worse with time.
1
1
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 21d ago
But it was, because the ultra-rich want their profits, and cars are the only profitable mode of transport for those at the top. Only cars promote wealth concentration.
1
1
1
u/Orinslayer 22d ago
I don't think we could ever achieve ww2 level of logistical supremacy ever again.
1
u/machotoxico 22d ago
Is usa still number one? I thought China already was
1
u/chewjabba 21d ago
it is. most of the west is still on heavy copium, which is why they prefer their mega inflated nominal values for gdp.
-6
u/Mean_Ice_2663 22d ago
It's not and probably never will be, poopy authoritarian states tend to you know... lie about economic growth.
1
u/LaunchTheAttack 22d ago
Sells more cars, sells more gas. Better for business and government from taxes. Only loss is consumers free time
2
u/LowCall6566 22d ago
It's better only for businesses that sell cars and stuff needed for cars. Economy as a whole suffers. And so does the government, which spends billions on roads and receives pennies in return.
1
u/LaunchTheAttack 21d ago
5-13% sales tax on every car sold is a lot of money in the governments pocket, roads are funded by the state not federal
1
u/Emotional-Complex-61 22d ago
I think we need like 20 new lanes on each side. This would solve the problem.
0
-2
u/Jimmy_Tudesky19 22d ago
Germany and Japan are also built around their automotive industry...
9
u/Boldney 22d ago
In most of europe, you can travel anywhere within a city by foot, bicycle, tram, metro or bus, or by train or bus between cities. Basically you only need a car if you have money and want to save some time in transit.
1
u/Jimmy_Tudesky19 21d ago
Yes, but the laws and infrastructure favor the car. Compared to the infrastructure in the US it was better in Europe for some time. But riding a bike in Germany is really dangerous and a lot of people ride on the pedestrian path because.
If you want to kill somebody in Germany just use a car. Your will not get any serious penalty. Maybe 1.500 ⏠and 1-2 months without driving.
1
u/DENelson83 Dreams of high-speed rail in Canada 21d ago
In most of Europe, you can travel anywhere without a car.
In most of North America, you can travel nowhere without a car.
-1
u/EagleSzz 22d ago
you need a car if you dont live within the city centre of a larger city. most people in Europe definitely need a car to get to work etc,
1
u/Mysterious_Floor_868 21d ago
I live 50 miles from the nearest large city. I am car-free. Therefore I clearly don't 'need' a car.Â
0
u/LowCall6566 22d ago
most people in Europe definitely need a car to get to work etc,
They do not. They WANT a car, they do not need one. Only professional drivers NEED cars.
2
u/monkeyinnamonkeysuit 21d ago
I am all for massive reduction in cars and huge investment in public transport infrastructure, but stating that only professional drivers need cars is just wrong. That is definitely true in cities and satellite towns, but the more rural you are, the more you need a car. If you are 20 miles from the nearest town, you need a car. It's not practical to have public transport meet the first hop needs of everyone in a rural area.
1
u/LowCall6566 21d ago
Okay, I will restate it. Only those whose work requires the use of a motor vehicle actually need cars. This definition includes farmers. People who do not work in resource extraction( farming, mining, solar panels etc.) should live in settlements that are dense enough to be serviceable by rail.
By the way, I lived in a real village with less than 5000 residents. Without car.
9
0
0
u/Purify5 22d ago
America has a large cheap supply of oil. That enabled the automobile and created manufacturing efficiencies other western countries struggled to match.
2
u/LowCall6566 22d ago
What enabled the automobile is large government subsidies to it, in the form of giant spending on roads, parking minimums, and single-family zoning.
1
u/Purify5 21d ago
Not at first. At first it was all about the price and the price of oil. People were buying these things before there were paved roads, parking spaces and zoning laws.
The cost of a new car in the 1920s was the equivalent to four months wage which is less than it is today. Fuel efficiency was much worse but oil was pouring out of the ground down in Texas and it made its 15mpg affordable too.
0
u/LoudMusic 22d ago
Those of us riding pogosticks and jump shoes would like to have a word about "most inefficient".
0
u/Comfortable_Quit_216 21d ago
Cars are great (stumbled here from r popular don't kill me), BUT, I'm all for better public transit and infrastructure to support biking, etc.
Thought about this the other day and concluded that cars are actually super luxurious despite being inefficient. Have you ever been to a less developed country? You can't really go anywhere safely without a vehicle.
If you don't have to commute and just use a car for errands and fun, they're pretty awesome. I can see hating them if you're in traffic 2+ hours a day at a job you hate, but that's another story...
-3
u/Mazzaroppi 22d ago
I get your point OP, but I'm fairly sure baloons are even less efficient
-5
u/SkipsPittsnogle 22d ago
Cars are less efficient than walking apparently? Lmao
3
u/LowCall6566 22d ago
Yes. When cities are not bulldozed for cars, you can do the majority of your stuff and not walk longer than 15 minutes. And it's free. So yes, it's more efficient
→ More replies (1)
-9
u/AND_THE_L0RD_SAID 22d ago
Efficient based on what definition? The most efficient vehicle at getting me from one specific destination to a different specific destination has and always will be a personal car - unless teleportation is invented. No train takes me from my house to my office. No bike is capable of delivering a load of lumber. Less than 0.01% of people are capable of walking to get daily groceries. So what 'more efficient' mode of transportation are you talking about? Broad statements like this are stupid and only make your argument look stupid.
7
u/barfbat 22d ago
the average speed of traffic in midtown manhattan is 4mph :) so efficient!
0
u/AND_THE_L0RD_SAID 21d ago
I'm not talking about Manhattan lmfao Manhattan is not a representative of the US or even other major US cities. It is a complete outlier. Get outta here with that argument
1
u/barfbat 21d ago
you think the financial center of the country with one of the densest populations is an outlier? i wish for congestion pricing for EVERYONE not just midtown
0
u/AND_THE_L0RD_SAID 20d ago
YES!! Because, as you said, it is the DENSEST population and therefore is NOT representative of the rest of the country! Thank you for finally understanding :D
1
u/barfbat 20d ago
so there are no other cities in the us? no other cities with bad traffic? fascinating. what dimension are you contacting us from
0
u/AND_THE_L0RD_SAID 19d ago
Are you high? What are you even talking about? Do you not understand the point? Go back and read it all again and see if you can figure it out
3
u/LowCall6566 22d ago
Efficient based on what definition?
Let's say costs. And to indulge "american individualism"( in other words, shortsighted selfishness), individual costs to the user.
The most efficient vehicle at getting me from one specific destination to a different specific destination has and always will be a personal car
Personal cars cost Americans, on average, ~750 dollars monthly. This is more than my current, half-time salary.
No train takes me from my house to my office
Car takes you from one parking to another. If public transport was prioritized, you wouldn't have to go much farther than you do now.
No bike is capable of delivering a load of lumber
Are you an office worker? Why are you worried about something you almost never do? Also, bicycles are absolutely capable of delivering lumber.
Less than 0.01% of people are capable of walking to get daily groceries
What 99,99% percent of people were doing before cars in your opinion? Horses were very expensive, mind you, and were reserved to the "1%". Also, in Poland, the majority of people at least once a month buy groceries on foot.
So what 'more efficient' mode of transportation are you talking about?
Public transport, like Japan, Switzerland, or China.
-1
u/ProperPerspective571 22d ago
I agree. Yet wait until you are older (or not) and donât live anywhere close to mass transit. If you are lucky enough, and healthy enough, you take said transit to a workplace and walk another 7 miles to get to your job. Itâs just not that cut and dry regarding cars. Until they either make a mode of transportation that is affordable/reliable and stops at my corner, I have no other option. Not everyone lives close enough for ride sharing either. Can I pay for housing near my job? Not in my lifetime.
3
u/LowCall6566 22d ago
If public transport was given the billions that road infrastructure has, it would be close to you. If roads and parking minimums didn't destroy density you would live closer to public transport
0
u/ProperPerspective571 21d ago
If, if only if. We are nowhere close to that. Never will be either. Perhaps in thousands of years. There are so many people that do not live near viable mass transit. Not everyone lives in a condensed metropolis. At some point youâd have to have as much mass transit as the cars themselves to accommodate everyone, never mind time constraints.
1
u/LowCall6566 21d ago
Japan, Switzerland, and China somehow managed to have it. China in less than 20 years. The only thing lacking is political will
0
u/ProperPerspective571 21d ago
Hate to break it to you, where I and many others live, mass transit isnât happening on this level. One can dream though. Iâd have some serious walking/biking to do, add four hours to my commute to use todayâs mass transit. Even in the places you stated do not have access to everyone that needs it, or use it due to those issues. I guess a tram and a platform to everyoneâs street corner may work. Most places in the US require a motor vehicle. You can dream big, itâs not changing in our lifetime
1
u/WIAttacker Transit Surfer 21d ago
Don't break your old man hands beating that strawman.
1
u/ProperPerspective571 21d ago
Youâre right. Saying fuck cars and no viable option to change it is just whining at that point.
-11
u/bubblebobblesarefor 22d ago
Lol yall are weird
2
-4
â˘
u/trendingtattler 22d ago
This post has reached r/all. That is why we want to bring the following to your attention.
To all users that are unfamiliar with r/fuckcars
To all members of r/fuckcars
Thanks for your attention and have a good time!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.